Should the Giants Sign Jose Bautista?

by
Greek Giant

Yes, the should! I love Jose Bautista (AKA “Joey Bats”). Let me tell you why. He can hit! He can hit dingers! He is fun to watch! He has a penchant for the big homer! I also love his cockiness and his epic bat flip in the 2015 ALDS with the Rangers. You gotta love a player who so obviously displays the joy of hitting home runs on his sleeve and who seems to embrace the spotlight.

But, let’s get serious and explore his stats, specifically his BABIP: Bautista’s BABIP actually went up in 2016, from .237 to .255. He has only had one “normal” BABIP in the last five years, with the rest of those seasons in a range lower than his stats would suggest. He missed significant time due nagging, but not serious injuries last season. I think he is a fairly low risk, high reward veteran signing in the Morse mold that could fit nicely with a glaring Giants need. Remember, the Giants have to face Kershaw, Rich Hill and possibly Jose Urias, all solid to great lefties about 15 times next year. They need a right-handed bat to bring some balance to the lefty-dominated lineup.

With advanced metrics and his advanced age (36) taking a toll on his big contract free agent dreams, Jose Bautista would be a superb addition to the Giants for a one or two year deal for about $12-$15 million per year. Though his defense grades to below average, I believe his offensive upsides more than make up for his adventures in the outfield. Hell, the Giants once played Michael Morse in left and they won the World Series that year! Remember those days?

With a team in such a dire need of the long ball hitter in its lineup, especially a right handed one, Bautista could be one of those strategic bridge signings that would provide big time pop off the bench or in a platoon with Big Mac and JP. for one or two seasons as the Giants come up with a more long-term solution for their outfield.

I have another theory: suppose the Giants sign Joey Bats to a one year deal and then package Jarrett Parker and/or Mac Williamson in some sort of trade for a younger player. Remember that the Giants have Austin Slater waiting in the potential wings for solid outfield help. They could also theoretically explore the possibility of Christian Arroyo or Kelby Tomlinson in the outfield.

My point is the Bautista signing would be a good fit for the Giants with only the high cost of the potential first round draft pick. Hitters like him are worth it. Throw sabermetrics to the wind with Bautista. He is that rare anti-advanced metrics type of player whose value as a home run threat from the right side transcends the worries about his defense. This is a case of meeting your needs with a premium hitter who looks like he will be ready to bounce back and prove himself with a great season to re-up his value in the new free agent market at the conclusion of the 2017 season. I love what the signing would say to Giants fans and baseball in general: We want to win now, take your WARS and your advanced metrics and stick them where the sun don’t shine. We want an old-school power hitter to balance our super duper everyday lineup with a dose of the fear of God in pitcher’s hearts when he steps to the plate.

  • dgg

    No.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Featured comment.

      • dgg

        I was restrained. I didn’t capitalize No and I didn’t punctuate with an exclamation point.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          An insouciant reply is appropriate for this query.

  • dgg

    Jeff Passan: “So while Bautista’s batting average and slugging percentages were down, his glove left much to be desired and his postseason was a mess…”

    • Keep’n It Real

      I’m not saying “sign him”, but I do think there is something to be said about “being the man” on one team and not necessarily holding themself accountable…versus being on another team where you’re just a spoke in the wheel. If he was on the Giants, he may thrive in their lineup and actually care about defense, because of who else is out there on the field. No Tulos or Bautistas on this team.

  • Skweezplay55

    How has he done vs NL pitching? Has he hit Kershaw? How about Grienke? Other top shelf NL pitchers?

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Channelclemente posted a splendid distribution chart for Baseball America prospect ratings versus WAR accumulation. It was implied that there was a linear relationship between the two. In truth this relationship is an inversely proportional relationship where your top tier prospects, the Grade A types like the Bryant’s, Seager’s, Lindor’s, Syndergaard’s, and going back, the Posey’s and Bumgarner’s, are much more likely to attain stardom than the group of prospects that represents the next tier. The chances of the next tier are proportionately lower and so forth, i.e. y=1/x, or y=1/x^2, so that by the time you get to B- and C+ caliber prospects, the chances of success look very much like a crapshoot.

    http://www.ajpa.co.uk/ajpa/Theory%20notes/pictures/inverse%20proportion.gif

    • Matthew

      This is good work, and I’m glad people are giving the effort.

      I know I come off as cynical often. The reason remains: what true percentage of A listers truly end up as stars, and how many flame out? You mention Bumgarner (10th pick?) and Posey (5th?). All of these choices are educated guesses in a Petri dish of college or high school, or Carribean leagues. How many Brien Taylor’s and Brandon Morrow’s are there? What was their projected WAR’s?

      The numbers and opinions merge into picks. Those picks develop individually with no discernible pattern because they are human and baseball is generally inhumane…talent, work ethic, luck, coaches opinion…then results.

      The work part is never done…Joc was HOF! until he wasn’t. Joe Charboneau!

      So, if you dig numbers, check out those graphs. I like mystery novels. I guess with you all…none of us are ever always right.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Pederson has OPS+ of 117 and 129 his first two seasons in the league. He was rated in a similar tier as Brandon Belt when he was a prospect, kind of in that A-/B+, #20-30 overall prospect range.

        • DrLefty

          Belt’s career OPS+ is 127, and he’s been at or above that three of the last four years (the fourth being 2014, which was injury-interrupted for him–even then, the OPS+ was 114).

          Pederson and Belt are actually good comps, in that they both strike out a lot, both walk a lot, and both have excellent power. Pederson plays a premium defensive position, but Belt is no slouch at his position, either.

    • dgg

      But “crapshoot” is something the Giants excel in, right?

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        I think this question is the heart of the matter that CC would like to see unlocked.

        Do the Giants have a higher rate of success with less flashy prospects that might warrant B- or C+ grades? Are there elements about certain prospects that make them more likely to succeed? Are there intangibles that can be perceived or metrics that are more reliable as predictors, such as the ability to make solid contact and strike out less?

        • channelclemente

          What I’d like to see unlocked is a better draft strategy/research with higher base players with significant upside.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            they haven’t done a whole lot of HS drafting in earlier rounds. not many of those bonus babies.

          • channelclemente

            They better start. I haven’t looked closely, but it seems to me players are getting older and older before they stick at the MLB level.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            looking for near term returns instead of the long term.

            I think the opposite is true. 20-21 year olds have been bursting on the scene of late.

          • channelclemente

            Look at the entire prospect profile. It seems to me the list of Williamses ad Parkers are just growing. Especially when you list guys who are trade valuable.

          • The Oracle

            What people who are so focused on numbers can’t seem to understand is that there will never be a system that can definitively analyze baseball prospects.

          • channelclemente

            Who wants definitive, just better than a coin flip.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Or a system to accurately pick the World Series winner at the start of the season.

  • earlytimes

    He’ll make someone a solid DH. Appears that will be Toronto. Too pricey for the already tax burdened G’s who are going with Mac and Cheese.

  • dgg

    The car was all packed up for our trip to Missoula. We started heading up the pass when the Check Engine light came on and we had to turn around. I was so busy yesterday I missed seeing that Alex Pavlovic had posted his annual “In Their Own Words” for 2016. I like that Alex keeps traditions. I always look forward to his month-by-month reviews and his year-end review. Alex starts this year’s “In Their Own Words” this way:

    “SAN FRANCISCO — In 2012, my first year on the Giants beat, I ended a quote-driven year-in-review piece with the words of an opponent. It was an easy choice.

    “I was looking slider.” — Miguel Cabrera.”

    Alex wraps up with these three quotations at the end:

    “It happened so fast. I felt we had control of the game. In five minutes, everything changed.” — Gillaspie, after Game 4.

    “It’s a little strange. We’re a victim of our own success here. You don’t expect to go home when you’re wearing this Giants uniform.” — Javier Lopez, after Game 4.

    “This is the type of thing that makes you love baseball. Because you really have to love it to come back after something like this.” — Matt Moore, after Game 4.

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/giants-2016-year-review-their-own-words

    • DrLefty

      Ugh, sorry about the trip.

      This is my favorite comment from the story:

      “Conor, I appreciate the hell out of that.” — Bumgarner to Gillaspie in the Citi Field dugout.

      If you look up “laconic” in the dictionary, there will be a picture of Madison Bumgarner.

      • Alvise Contarini

        From Laconia (ancient greek Λακωνία, Lakonía) historic region of Greece, whose capital was Sparta. What’s my grade, my dear Professor?

    • Sometimes those Check Engine Lights belong to a long list of S and M – idiot lights that enjoy tormenting us in times of travel.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Bautista likely headed back north of the border…

    https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/814571477848756224

    • dgg

      Très bon.

    • Keep’n It Real

      With his pockets much lighter than he thought they’d be…

      • Matthew

        But his ego overflows

        • crawnik

          True. Not good for the clubhouse chemistry that the Giants promote.

          • John Myhill

            If you look at giants’ last few trades and signings–moore, smith, nunez, melancon–these are very typical giants’ signings personality-wise. Bautista doesn’t exactly fit that.

          • channelclemente

            Unless Bautista has some secret Santa somewhere on his side, a Melancon seemed to.

        • Efrain

          The Giants could use some ego, they tend to be a bit bland at times and you know it.

          • I prefer to call it swagger or confidence and I agree with Efrain here. Last year the Giants were lacking in fight and swagger during their second half nosedive. From what I have read, Bautista is a good teammate. Because he is demonstrative and passionate does not necessarily make him an egomaniac.

          • channelclemente

            It’ll be interesting to see if Evans ‘sees’ the Giants personality as a team consistent with his own take of a team’s character. If there is a big glich in the saber/analytics approach to building a team is the complete abandonment of synergy/team effects on outcome. That glich, IMO, is why teams just built to win by talent don’t persist, take the Marlins and, I think, the Cubs. It sounds funny to say it, but to persist, talent just isn’t enough.

          • Peter Johnson

            The Marlins are a bad example, after they won titles they were torn down by ownership to save money .

          • Great points! I completely agree with you about the importance of chemistry and identity regarding playing styles, the character of the people who are signed to play for the Giants. The Marlins and the Yankees for a long time were teams that never heeded these concepts.

          • The Oracle

            The owner broke up the Marlins, twice. The Cubs have persisted for the last two seasons. I predict further persistence.

          • channelclemente

            The Giants winning 3WS didn’t seem to phase you. In fact, by the numbers, the Cubs were pretty much identical to the 92 win Marlins. It’ll be interesting to see what develops. I’m not as optimistic about the Cubs chances as you seem to be.

          • The Oracle

            I think you’re engaging in wishful thinking.

          • channelclemente

            Actually, I was hoping they could hang around on top for longer. But the way we got to them last year reveals they can be had. Although we lost, you could see weaknesses I hadn’t noticed before, in their pitching most obviously, but also at the plate. Just a hunch, but I think the Cardinals are going to give them fits this year.

          • The Oracle

            For most astute observers of the Cubs last season, the first word that comes to mind probably isn’t “weaknesses.”

          • John Myhill

            They were lucky to get past us, they were outhit by 50 points and it would have been worse if it wasn’t for their pitchers’ hitting, and they were very lucky to get past the indians even without their #2 and #3 starters. Their pitchers had huge babip luck all year. It was their year after 107 failures, but that doesn’t mean they’ll be a major force for a long time.

          • channelclemente

            They added pitching this year because of what we saw. So all is not well and happy in Chicago. Maddon is no fool, he’s aware of those shortcomings.

          • cynic

            You don’t need to show it outwardly to have swagger and confidence. I think Buster has plenty of swagger and confidence. Have you seen him jump out of the squat position and run to the dugout after a strike 3 call to end the inning?

          • Good Point!

          • cynic

            BTW that’s one of my favorite moves. And coming from a guy like Buster makes it even better.

          • Only if it is the last out of a real important game 🙂

          • Matthew

            They have egos…healthy and appropriate ones.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        maybe something comparable to QO ~ 2/36?

        • Keep’n It Real

          According to MLB Radio yesterday, they were saying it would be a 1 year and not necessarily close to QO annual salary. Jays gambled andmay have won…big time.

        • channelclemente

          Best guess is one year, not two. IMO, he missed his window to pedal his wares elsewhere.

  • crawnik

    Only a month and half away from when pitchers and catchers report. Terry Whitfield’s uniform number tells us how many days left. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8dd9a85f687ce499d145031d0637dd22e5bfcfdd311e66cf47cfa51bc6ade7c0.jpg

  • winebaroness27

    No cause of the QO, defense and the age.

    • winebaroness27

      Maybe if there was a DH…ha ha ha

      • Matthew

        Jose Franzia

    • DrLefty

      Agree–I think none chance of giving up the draft pick for that scenario. If they’d needed to give it up to sign, say, Kenley Jansen, I think they would have done it, but not for Bautista, and especially not after surrendering the first-round pick last time.

  • Peter Johnson

    Bautista would be a perfect hitter for AT&T Park like Brian Dozier he is a dead pull hitter, not like the other Giant right handed hitters with Power, Pence and Posey, who tend to go the other way .

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      The idea of Bautista slugging HRs in SF is great. The bridge to make it happen probably does not exist right now.

      • channelclemente

        The problem, sooner or later, Batista has to play the other half of a baseball game, defense. He’s accumulated -96 Def WAR over his career. That’s close to a record, I suspect. His career DRS is -10 for his career.

        • Matthew

          Some people appreciate one half of a ball players makeup and simply ignore the other half. Maybe it’s Sportscenter’s fault

          • channelclemente

            Yet they always have something creative to say about Span and Pagan like players. Batista has to get 90+ RBIs in a season for the books to balance. As an old, pure FB hitter, when he goes, it’s going to be sudden.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            and sometimes all-glove players are equivalent in value to all-bat players.

          • Matthew

            Luckily our glove guys also hit

          • Efrain

            really? so Plays of the Day, many of them defensive gems, are not singling out excellent defensive work? Sure the HR is sexy and what Sportscenter showcases, but they do tend to show great plays both ways.

          • Matthew

            You get my point…..

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          Yeah, the idea of Bautista running around the outfield isn’t so great.

  • Possibly if he was related in some way to somebody/anybody in the Giant organization via marriage or possibly ‘blood-brothers’ – with Tito Fuentes or Erwin Higueros.

  • Kramerica

    Dodgers are projected to win 95 games and Giants projected to win 88 games. It seems quite a stretch to think these teams are 7 games apart barring significant injury. Projections must be really down on the Giants offense given the embarrassment of the second half last year. At least this year it will not be musical chairs in the 9th.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      I think the Dodgers with Dozier and more bullpen help are probably a “95 win” team in a tough division. As with any team, injuries could take a wrecking ball to that.

      • Kramerica

        If they get Dozier, but these projections were done without Dozier. So, I would imagine the win total would somehow increase from 95 wins with him. That just seems too high.

    • Alvise Contarini

      Projected by who? What criteria used? Without more specific info it’s only hazarding a wild guess.

      • Kramerica

        I believe it was fangraphs or baseball prospectus per an ESPN insider article on path to the playoffs for NL West teams. Criteria generally involves some part of collective WAR based on projection of each player.

        • Alvise Contarini

          Thanks for the info.

    • 22’sSweetSwing

      95 is high (even if they won 94 just 3 seasons ago), they haven’t done that since 2009. 7 games different isn’t unreasonable given that that the closets the Giants have come is 4 and furthest is 11 in the last 5 years. It doesn’t really matter because they will finish ahead of the Giants. But that doesn’t matter much because no team has a pitching staff built to win after a 1 game playoff.

    • DrLefty

      That does seem too high. The Dodgers’ rotation simply isn’t that good and it’s built on a lot of pretty fragile arms. They got Jansen back, but the rest of their bullpen is TBD. I think the Giants’ pitching staff, top to bottom, is clearly better, but the Dodgers’ lineup is better.

      • Kramerica

        Panik is a big key to me. If he’s more like the ’14/’15 Panik the lineup should be ok unless they yet again don’t have anyone hitting 20+ HRs. But if Panik is as bad as last year then his bat is more of a liability than an asset and the lineup will really struggle. I’m a big time Panik believer and I think last year was an anomaly. Hopefully he’ll bounce back to look like the 2B of the future again. And, if he does, I think the Giants will win 90+ games assuming no major injuries (Pence needs to avoid those major injuries this year).

    • Efrain

      The Dodgers had a much more talented 40 man than the Giants last off season, getting Melancon does not change the gap that much.

      But as Lefty points out, the Giants staff is much better, it will come down to IF the Giants can hit enough.

  • Shout out to Wendy Peffercorn and object of affection of “Michael ‘Squints’ Palledorous. Anybody named Michael had this experience about 100 years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io4RWV681wQ

  • I would prefer ODOR over Joey Bats. Odor could play LF and he surely has been precision to his right hand. Joey on the other hand has a glass jaw.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXON4JDuv7E

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Vegas WS odds as of 12/24

    Chicago Cubs 15/4
    Boston Red Sox 11/2
    Cleveland Indians 8/1
    Washington Nationals 10/1
    Los Angeles Dodgers 14/1
    Houston Astros 15/1
    San Francisco Giants 15/1
    New York Mets 18/1
    Seattle Mariners 25/1
    St. Louis Cardinals 25/1
    Texas Rangers 25/1
    Detroit Tigers 30/1
    New York Yankees 30/1
    Toronto Blue Jays 30/1
    Baltimore Orioles 35/1
    Kansas City Royals 40/1
    Pittsburgh Pirates 50/1
    Chicago White Sox 60/1
    Miami Marlins 65/1
    Colorado Rockies 75/1
    Tampa Bay Rays 85/1
    Los Angeles Angels 100/1
    Philadelphia Phillies 100/1
    Oakland Athletics 115/1
    Arizona Diamondbacks 125/1
    Atlanta Braves 125/1
    Cincinnati Reds 125/1
    Milwaukee Brewers 125/1
    Minnesota Twins 125/1
    San Diego Padres 125/1

    • Scout Finch Baseball
      • channelclemente

        A caution, it’s not homoscedastic (same variance at all points, IMO), and it’s got more than one distribution mixed in (multimodal). Plus that face looking on has no sense of awe.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          and I can tell you that the sum of all probabilities is greater than one – whatever you call that.

          • channelclemente

            No, I can tell the whale has a hump on its back.

          • Alvise Contarini

            it’s 1.207373737. ???

        • The Oracle

          An even if it was, there wouldn’t be anything wrong with it.

          • channelclemente

            It’s a caution, not a critique. You know, part of a fun discussion. I suppose Footy is headed somewhere, maybe somewhere interesting.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            To Fresno. Costco, Tractor Supply, TJ Maxx and dinner. All with the Mrs.

          • channelclemente

            Hope springs eternal.

        • 610nm

          There’s Paul’s word of the day.

    • Kramerica

      Wow, the Cubs are going at less than 4:1 to win the whole f$%^&*# thing in December?! Anyone putting money down on the Cubs at those odds is either an idiot or a Cubs fan…and the two are not mutually exclusive.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        I’m betting the field!

        • Kramerica

          Seriously. I wouldn’t touch 15:4 odds at the beginning of the playoffs, let alone 3+ months before Opening Day. That’s just Vegas taking advantage of sucker Cubs fans. The rest of the odds seem far more appropriate.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            How about this bet?

            Cubs, Sox, Tribe vs The Field

          • Kramerica

            Ooooooh, now you’re talking. May not be the wisest move but I’d probably take the field because I think the odds you’d get for any one of that trio winning (if such bet existed) would be unfavorable.

  • Close Call Sports Presents – Top 20 Ejections of 2016 – Year in Review
    *Quality of Correctness is provided in the following format:
    Y=Correct, N=Incorrect, U=Irrecusable.

    20: E-107|108: Mark Wegner (1-2); A’s 1B Yonder Alonso & Mgr Bob Melvin (K3 Call; QOC = Y)
    19: E-067: Tripp Gibson (1); Cubs Manager Joe Maddon (Check Swing Ball Four; QOC = N)
    18: E-055: Dale Scott (6); Angels 3B Yunel Escobar (Strike Three Call; QOC = N)
    17: E-088|089: Ben May (2-3); Pirates’ Branson & Mgr Clint Hurdle (Strike One Call; QOC = Y)
    16: E-127: Alan Porter (3); Astros 2B Jose Altuve (Strike Three Call; QOC = N)
    15: E-010: Sean Barber (1); Padres LF Melvin Upton Jr (Strike Two Call; QOC = Y)
    14: E-141: Mike Winters (3); Nationals RF Bryce Harper (Strike Three Call; QOC = Y)
    13: E-023: Chris Guccione (1); Yankees Manager Joe Girardi (Balk No-Call; QOC = Y)
    12: E-079: Mike Everitt (1); Braves Interim Manager Brian Snitker (Replay Review; QOC = Y-C)
    11: E-024: Cory Blaser (1); Braves C AJ Pierzynski (Strike Three Call; QOC = N)
    10: E-087: Hunter Wendelstedt (2); Braves LF Jeff Francoeur (Replay Review; QOC = Y).
    #9: E-062|063: Adam Hamari (1-2); Mets P Syndergaard, Mgr Collins (Throwing At; QOC = U)
    #8: E-049: Doug Eddings (1); Tigers Manager Brad Ausmus (Strike Three Call; QOC = N)
    #7: E-199: Jeff Kellogg (5); Mets Manager Terry Collins (Replay Review; QOC = Y)
    #6: E-090: Bill Miller (2); Padres Manager Andy Green (Runner’s Lane Interference NC; QOC = N-C)
    #5: E-042-47: Scott & Iassogna; Blue Jays and Rangers (Fighting, Throwing At; QOC = U)
    #4: E-139: Scott Barry (3); Red Sox 3B Coach Brian Butterfield (Ball Two Call; QOC = Y)
    #3: E-032: Brian Knight (1); Nationals RF Bryce Harper (Strike Three Call; QOC = Y)
    #2: E-142-145: Mike Everitt (3-6); Tigers’ Martinez x2, Joyner, Ausmus (Strike Calls; QOC = Y & N)

    HONORARY: Unofficial: Bob Davidson; Philly spectator (Vulgar/Obscene Conduct; QOC = U)

    #1: E-159: Joe West (5); Cubs Manager Joe Maddon (Stalling/Pace of Play Enforcement; QOC = U)

  • 22’sSweetSwing

    In case you want to look into how drafting works out Rany Jazayerli has a 12 post study over at BP (anything 1 yr or older free) starting with this piece http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4026

    Here is a tidbit

    “As you would expect, the probability of reaching the majors drops in a fairly linear fashion from the first pick to the 100th. There is a big dropoff after pick 35, but there’s also a spike upward between picks 45 and 50, which suggests random variation. Overall, the probability of reaching the majors starts at 90%, drops by about 0.9% per draft spot for the first 50 spots, then drops by about 0.3% per spot from picks 50
    through 100.”

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      +++++!

    • DrLefty

      I was a little concerned about him “playing hoops with the Globetrotters” until I saw the video. He got to suit up and take a couple of uncontested shots. He didn’t actually PLAY. It was cute, though, and he seemed to be having a good time.

      I don’t think the Giants would want to hear that their best homegrown reliever blew out his ACL playing with the Globetrotters.

      • He could now be OUR own Meadowlark Lemon! He is pretty much of a Chatty Cathy – in the dugout ….

  • Matthew

    As for the Dodgers, projected wins, and odds…. “We” have been dodgering bullets with the fact they haven’t won it all. They remain legit. They have holes ( SP, middle inning pen), but I respect their talent.

    I just happen to love my Giants and continue to have Smitten Bias

    • 610nm

      A case of very quick not-thinking.

  • channelclemente

    Some interesting ruminations on Bautista.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jose-bautista-fighting-decline/

  • Efrain

    Going back to the discussion on the blog a few days ago (mostly with Scout), the team looking into a guy like Bautista is neither thinking out of the box nor strategic in any way. It just smells of a team not trying hard enough hard to fix a hole and just settling on what is left on the open market.

    I like Bautista, sure the guy can hit, and surely that power can help this team. However, it does not makes sense in two ways:

    1) Age – does not make the team younger and more athletic
    2) Defense – on a team that prides itself on defense and one with Span already questionable and Pence on his last legs, it does not makes sense to play a DH type in LF.

    • steve k

      one other problem i have is losing the draft pick. i really don’t think that batts’ offense would be that much better than mac’s to offset all the reasons not to sign him.

      • dgg

        …and Mac brings defense.

      • Efrain

        Ok now you are being ridiculous, if Mac’s offense was anywhere close to Bautista’s “possible season, the Giants would not be looking and no one here would be questioning LF.

        Tell me in what way Bautista’s Offense would not “that much better”, only a guy who has been one of the top offensive producers in the AL the past 5 seasons. Comments like that just lose credibility from the jump.

        Ridiculous assumption.

        • Matthew

          Easy, E. I don’t think Mac’s the answer either, but Joey Bats is closer to AARP than MVP

          • dgg

            AARP keeps getting a bad rap around here…

          • Matthew

            I guess I don’t know AARP….

            Bada BOOM

          • Efrain

            ok, lol I’ll take it easy, but assuming Mac will come anywhere near the production level of Batts is just silly.

        • steve k

          don’t put words in my mouth. what i said was that i didn’t think that the difference in their offensive numbers would be great enough to offset the list of negatives that come along with sr. batts. he was injured, and missed a bunch of games last year, plus he 36 yrs. young.

          the giants would lose a coveted first round draft pick. the team is trying to get younger, and losing that pick would hurt in that regard.

          the giants will have one of the best starting staffs in the bigs. they also have one of the roomiest ball parks in the league, and play in the west, which has a couple of other large yards. this all points to a necessity of fielding a very good defensive team, if they are to succeed in the 2017 season. what little i’ve seen of mac in the field, i liked. joey batts on the other hand is a joey joke in the outfield.

          even if bautista has a big offensive year, i think it’s closer all around, taking everything into consideration. that’s all i said.

          • dgg

            Wow. Very well articulated, steve k. My favorite part: The Giants “have one of the roomiest ball parks in the league, and play in the west, which has a couple of other large yards.”

            I think you nailed it. There’s no plausible comeback after your comment.

          • Mr. Sarcastic

            Aww, c’mon Deeg… You don’t want to see Joey B roaming the Coors Field outfield?

          • channelclemente

            Selling beer?

          • Efrain

            Ever seen the movie The Sandlot? You’re taking a cue from Paul in Pv and basically taking on the role of Yeah Yeah.

          • Efrain

            guess again yeah yeah

          • channelclemente

            They’re, best case, only projecting an RC+ of 128 for Bautista. Any decline in offense makes him a liability. His best (safest) position is RF historically. For whatever reason, LF seems to reveal his defensive liabilities like a spotlight.

          • Efrain

            Perhaps before you go popping off, you should do some research bub.

            While I don’t think Bautista is the the answer for this team as far as LF goes, maybe you should did deeper next time you try to sound cute and smart.

            Defensive metrics the past THREE season for the OF:

            Bautista:

            2104: 133 games / .987
            2015: 118 games / .987
            2016: 91 games / .987

            Williamson:

            2015: 7 games (too small a sample size) 1:000
            2016: 36 games / .969

            So seems you are going on the fact Mac is wearing orange and black and have a jones for him, because other than that, your argument is pretty damn weak

          • steve k

            bub? i like that. why do you always have to be so antagonistic towards someone, when all they are doing is stating their opinion about something? “my argument is pretty damn weak”? i’m not arguing, so maybe that’s why.

            i’ve been watching this game for over 50 years. from what i’ve seen, mac plays a nice left or right field. in the little time he’s played, he’s made a number of very good plays. that’s all i’m going by. the eye test. i don’t run the stats every time i make a statement. that’s not why i’m here.

            trust me, i’m not trying to be cute, and especially, not a chance with this bunch, trying to be smart. there are MD’s, PHD’s, engineer’s, chemists, and a bunch of folks that are just plain wicked smart. i just like hearing what other people have to say about my giants.

            i have trouble believing you’re so nasty in real life. i’m sure at one point in your life you were taught the golden rule. you need to get back to that. it’s a better way to live. we’re both in NY. let’s have a beer sometime. you’re probably going to like me.

          • channelclemente

            Steve, with the sample size so small with Williamson, all that’s left is the eye test. With what I’ve seen, I’d concur with your optimism. The kid seems to run smart routes. That’s more than one can say about Bautista. He’s the least defensive liability in RF, and AT&T’s RF, were he to play there, would eat him alive. In LF, for some reason, he takes awful to new lows.

          • Efrain

            Fine let’s agree to disagree. I like that idea, as I’ve told Matthew I’m a sweetheart 😉

          • SurfCity

            Telling people you’re a sweetheart means nothing if your actions betray it. You were not being a sweetheart in this thread: you were being obnoxious.

          • channelclemente

            Fielding efficiency is not a useful metric. It’s awful as a matter of fact. Games don’t count chances do, IF the sample number is big enough. Bautista is just a defensive liability by any measure. Williamson is an optimistic question mark. Please learn how to make the argument you want to make, or just say it’s a wild ass guess.

          • Efrain

            All of this is a guess, not a perfect science. If Mac turns out to be half the player Bautista has been for his career, they are the better for it. I just don’t see it.

  • Matthew

    I am anxiously awaiting our resident Niner lover, TO, with a response to the players voting Kap the Len Eshmont Award…it ought to be entertaining.

    • Efrain

      I have no issue with it, in this forgetful season when no player had a great season to speak of, it was CK’s story line that captured the league and much of the nation.

      If anything, he showed strength and resolve handling the media scrutiny, death threats, the very circus that is the NFL, week in and week out.

      On a team with over 50% African Americans on it, I’m sure many, if not the majority, appreciated and felt strongly about the message even if they did not participate in it.

      It’s a team vote for the player they think exhibited courage and strength, NOT the “hey lets vote for the fans favorite player” award.

      Good for him and good for them.

      • Matthew

        I agree, and also think part of it ( in addition to many of the players relating) was a huge FU to Baalke and Jed for the way they leaked stories on certain guys (Harbaugh, Kap) as they also ruined the roster.

        I think there was total dysfunction at the end of Harbaugh’s term, and Trent &Jed systematically ruined everything.

        I personally would prefer Kap play a mediator role and sit down with police leaders rather than only seeing one side, but, then again, I’ve never walked in his shoes.

        I’m glad he won it.

        • Efrain

          Very astute to point out “never walked in his shoes”, always funny when non minorities claim to know how they feel or what they have experienced.

          The sitting down with police leaders is not CK’s job, its to have government and private agencies, the type the money he is raising, to do that. He is making a point to make the message heard, he is not the one to fix the issue.

          • Peter Johnson

            Wearing Pig Cops socks, says it all about him .

          • Mr. Sarcastic

            Being a LEO these days is probably the most difficult profession imaginable. To have to deal with the worst of the worst, day after day, and at the same time “be nice” and “not offend” anyone while your every move is recorded by cell phones and dash cams, and any action to defend yourself is scrutinized under a microscope by social media (with only partial details) is insane.
            (How’s that for a run-on sentence?)
            My wife worked in Law Enforcement (civilian – not badged) and every day when she came home after dealing with the scum of society (sex offenders needing to re-register, people needing to post bail or surrender to warrants, booking people who were arrested ((including some famous 49ers)) she was mentally drained. Imagine the person who deals with these people multiple times a day, as their regular job!
            So yeah… Are there bad cops? Of course. There are also bad teachers, bad doctors, bad politicians, bad housewives, bad troop leaders, and bad TWG posters. But to label all of them collectively, to “protest” them as a group is bullshit.
            If someone breaks into Kaps house, do you think he’s not going to call 911?

          • The Oracle

            Well said. The only I would say differently is that I don’t see my job as difficult or stressful. It’s always been my escape from whatever stress I might have in other parts of my life. Yes, we deal with all that you mention, and others may not see it quite the way I do, but I focus on the satisfaction that I get from knowing that what we do is absolutely essential, and always remember that for every bad person I deal with, there are far more good people that I won’t be meeting. It feels good to be one of the people that stands between the victimizers and the potential victims.

            Yes, idiots like Kaepernick provide some degree of annoyance, as does the far from objective media, but it’s only annoyance, and not anything that affects who I am or how I do my job. Just about every day I’m wearing this uniform, someone comes up to me and says thank you. Usully, its multiple times a day. Sometimes, and especially lately, people step up when I’m in line somewhere and offer to pay for my meal. I’d be fine without either ever happening, but it’s nice. And if Kaepernick ever did call 911, he’d get the same service as anyone else.

    • dgg

      “If there was any doubt about how Colin Kaepernick’s protest this season was received inside the 49ers’ locker room, that question was answered on Friday.” –Matt Maiocco

    • The Oracle

      Why would you think it would matter to me? It has no effect on my opinion. My belief that Kaepernick is an idiot remains unchanged. I will continue to root for his failure.

      • Matthew

        Atta babe. I think it says volumes about how his teammates view him, which is vitally important for a QB.

        • The Oracle

          My opinion of him has nothing to do with quarterbacking, but 1-9 as a starter says something about him in that regard.

          • Matthew

            You know better than that, given the roster.

          • The Oracle

            I’m sure he’ll be highly sought after, just like he was this past off season.

          • Matthew

            He’ll land on his feet….

          • The Oracle

            On his knee, you mean.

          • Matthew

            That was good!

            I’m thinking Jets. Thought Denver, but Baalke is targeted as Cafeteria Supervisor under Elway.

          • How are your testosterone levels these days? 4:4 ?

      • Efrain

        Well you idiocy remains intact, congrats champ!

        • The Oracle

          Why should I think any differently about Kaepernick? Do you appreciate racists? This guy has stated his opinion about the people who do my job. I know, from experience, that his opinion is a giant load of BS. Although, I must admit, being called an idiot by an idiot’s idiot is quite an honor.

          • Efrain

            why thank you!

      • channelclemente

        From a psychiatric POV, it’s only important you don’t come to believe your opinion will play a roll in the outcome. That’s symptom on the DSM-IV that could put your career/retirement at risk.

        • The Oracle

          I don’t need a lecture from you. I go about my job with impartiality and professionalism, always, and that would include dealing with Kaepernick himself, if it ever happened.

          • channelclemente

            Hardly a lecture, just that ‘magical thinking’ isn’t an attribute you should cultivate. Personally, I think you need some Jesuit friends, myself.

          • LOL @ impartiality

        • dgg

          …and the DSM-5.

          • channelclemente

            I abandoned ship at IV. The shrinks wrote it, and I know and worked with too many shrinks.

          • dgg

            I can understand. I was still working and had to make the adjustment from IV to 5. It took over 10 years to write the DSM-5 and there are many mistakes and problems within. Something I do like is how the DSM-5 interacts with the ICD-10 codes.

          • channelclemente

            Could be. It was moving from III to IV where all the frictions was in my day. The Clinical Psychologist of the Meeting walked out precisely because it was all about ICD 9 (then) Codes, as opposed to an accurate and descriptive nomenclature. I was a struggling research tenure type in a clinical department, so I decamped for Pharma rather than rationalize the nut cases the shrinks were.

      • Your tirade about Kap is kind of the antithesis of what you stand for regarding other people who stand up for things. You are to young but hopefully each generation stood up – sat down – kneel down or raised their respected fists for whatever cause it was that their generation took upon them. Tommy Smith and John Carlos were racially hated when they raised their fists. Before you denigrate him kneeling down and not standing maybe you should do your research. Your work close enough so that you could drive over to 4949 Marie P DeBartolo Way and chat with the young man. But instead you will answer with “why would I want to talk to that *idiot*”? Kap met with Veteran Nate Boyer before and after that game and they talked it out.

        We all have people in our lives that did not like what he did. Do you think he did NOT know that he was going to get pushback??? And regardless of him knowing it – he pursued his path.

        There is a reason why NONE of us sing the third stanza of the Anthem, right?

        • The Oracle

          George Wallace stood up for segregation. It didn’t make him right or admirable. I’ve never said Kaepernick doesn’t have a right to say what he wants. I’m just not required to agree with him.

          • channelclemente

            I sympathize with the message, not the messenger. In my humble opinion, beating this drum may be counterproductive to the goals pragmatically available. IMO, these guys need to dump this nonsense against departments, and go straight to the police unions and sort this out. Police Chief X,Y, or Z has almost no power to change a societal issue by some sort of administrative trick, or camera.

          • The Oracle

            You’re assuming that issue actually exists to some significant degree. Also, most police departments have bent over backwards to try to address the concerns of the critics. I’m unaware of any similar efforts coming from the anti-police side of the supposed issue. Despite constant calls for a “conversation,” those leading the protests are only interested in their own monologue.

          • channelclemente

            I don’t think that’s true at all. I think both sides are as obstinate because they are afraid to talk about the issue. The consequences for both of them are extremely uncomfortable and troubling.

        • Walter Guest

          When I see a tattoo I think “damaged person.” When I see tattoos on all visible skin area, I think “severely damaged person.” If I were hiring for a business, there would be two strikes against him. I’ve heard there are porn sites that won’t allow tattoos.

          That’s what I’ve heard. Yeah, I heard that.

          • You may have to do more research to make your view a finite view. Each generation of men have had their own TATS. “Love You Mom” – “I Love Molly” and “From San Francisco”. Some more fortunate men had USA tattooed in an area “down below” and when ‘expanded’ – it would read “United States of America”.

            The Apostles who walked the desert with JC were said to have tattoos.

  • Matthew

    TF62’s Vol’s getting it done

    • totalfan62

      Always a huge plus to win your bowl game. They came to play today. #GBO

  • channelclemente

    Apparently we are what we eat, and who we eat it with.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161229141858.htm

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      The notion of mice on an “unrestricted American diet” is amusing. I’ll have the burger, fries, animal-style, and large soda!

      But seriously, for the cattle we have to consider feeding the bacteria in their gut so they can properly and more efficiently digest cellulose. Naturally this means getting enough protein in the gut. More of a late summer issue.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Great serious post by Mr. Sarcastic below. One of my resolutions that I’m working on is to be a better person to The Oracle; to be a nicer interaction rather than the other kinds. Perhaps Efrain will take on the resolution to realize that not everyone has skin as tough as TO or the tough New Yorkers he engages with daily.

    • Moooooooooose

      Funny stuff there, footy!

    • Matthew

      Oh, Switzerland, my Switzerland.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Austria, I presume?

        • Matthew

          Home of Red Bull!

    • The Oracle

      I will appreciate it if you just say what you think. There’s no need to be better. You’re fine.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        I think people are misunderstood.

    • Bapah

      Both Mr. Sarcastic and TO. Both comments were well done.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Speaking of well done, bacon happens to be one of the few meats on the planet that is still delicious in the well-done state. How do you like your bacon?

  • DrLefty

    Wild Orange Bowl game with FSU edging Michigan 33-32. There is nothing quite like college football over New Year’s.

  • John Myhill

    Signing someone like bautista means basically giving up on williamson. He’s 26 and if he can’t produce now he never will. Last year he had bad babip luck, would have hits 30-40 points higher with normal luck, and with the power he showef that’s pretty promising. He had serious jitters in the field when he started but after he got used to starting he was quite good. I say give him a real shot

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Mr. Prolific!