Giants’ Bats Silenced by Tyler Chatwood in 2-0 Loss to Rockies

by
GreekGiant

screen-shot-2016-09-29-at-9-53-31-am

In last night’s game the Giants had the leadoff runner on in six different innings. Each time they failed to score for a variety of reasons: double plays, runners getting thrown out trying to steal, etc. Conor Gillaspie was thrown out trying to steal second base with the pitcher batting in a 3-1 count! It as that kind of night for the Giants hitters. In only the bottom of the ninth were they even able to put a runner in scoring position.

Another Dominant Performance Against the Giants Bats

Tyler Chatwood was excellent. In games when your team has trouble scoring runs it is commonplace to use terms like “putrid”, “pathetic”, “awful”, and “desultory”. We’ve seen this game before, about 20-30 times: Our staring pitcher is brilliant, our team is over-matched by an unknown or some other starter who suddenly pitches like Bob Gibson against the Giants. The Giants have now lost 9 games when leading in the ninth and have never won a game when behind going into the ninth… That should tell you what kind of psychological torture this year has been.

Losses like this represent a challenge to Giants fans. When you get shutout by a great pitching performance it becomes a fine line between blaming your hitters and giving the other team’s starter his due. Tyler Chatwood has owned the Giants this year and surely the team will have to examine its approach against him for next season.

Jeff Smardzija and Our Starting Rotation

Jeff Samardzija was wonderful. His fastball had tremendous life and his change-up was getting many swinging strikes. His line: 6 innings pitched, 7 hits, 2 runs, 1 walk, and 11 strikeouts. Smarge has developed into a legitimate ace for the Giants. With his expanded arsenal of off-speed pitches and his improved command, I dare say the Giants would be confident with him starting the Wild Card game. It appears that our wishes have been granted: Smardzija would harness his other-worldly stuff and develop into a complete pitcher with the tutelage of Righetti and company and the magical environs of Willie Mays Field.

MWQ for Tonight’s Game: 98

What is so frustrating about this season is this: The Giants now have 4 top flight starting pitchers. The prospects of having this rotation in short playoff series are tantalizing. The catch is, there is no guarantee this team will even get to play such a series. I keep thinking about all those wins we gave away this year… That’s what makes tonight’s game a 98 on the MWQ (Must Win Quotient). I have petitioned the Sabermetrics people to accept this stat into their canon.

The Giants lost a chance to go 2 games up on the Cardinals, who lost last night (Thank you Adam Duval). This leaves us with 4 games left to play: tonight’s game against the Rockies and three against the Dodgers. I don’t know about you but the prospect of the Dodgers knocking us out of the playoffs in our own yard fills me with horror.

  • DrLefty

    This is an interesting read from Ken Rosenthal about current GM hiring practices in MLB. There is definitely a type emerging–young, male, white, educated in an elite private institution, schooled in analytics. There also appears to be one search firm that’s a big dog in sports hiring right now.

    The article also mentioned in passing how candidates from the Royals and the Giants, two organizations that are less analytics-driven than others but which have nonetheless had great recent success, don’t get any/much interest in such searches.

    http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/minnesota-twins-derek-falvey-baseball-hiring-practices-092816

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    A+ morning after pill. Thanks GG.

    • Thank You Sir! You never know when the morning after pill is going to come in handy! Especially with this Giants team run amok!

    • HaakAway

      Strange metaphor … gotta work on that one.

  • Bapah

    **Reprise**
    I hope they don’t go to post season for one reason. If they do, in fact make it, it might just validate Bochy’s “head up the ass” approach to running this team lately.

    • totalfan62

      I was going to suggest you re-post this on the new thread. Well played, Bapah.

      • Bapah

        Hey, TF, you can call me Baps since you’re obviously a baseball guy and I like BBGs.

    • HaakAway

      I am afraid that Ship Has Sailed. They have gotten close enough that I doubt much soul searching will happen (but with a higher “Three-in-SIx” standard maybe you are right.)

      But really, for the players and fans, you have to hope they get a chance to show their worth and go all the way. Even if they win it all, the FO and the New TWGang will know it was inspite Bochy’s Bad season, not thanks to it.

  • Bapah

    “That’s something that makes a season when you can pull games out like that in the ninth, and that’s been missing lately.” – BBochy

    “Lately”? LATELY??? NOT ONCE, YOU FOOL!!
    TRY ALL SEASON

    • Eric Ritz

      They’re 11-7 in extra inning games. So they’re not totally immune to late comebacks.

  • Bapah

    Oh, one more thing… Mr. Happy ran the team out of an inning ON HIS OWN.
    He didn’t have the “go”.
    Anybody wonder why this guy has been xxx-ed from so many teams?

    • Not true. It came out yesterday that he mis-read a sign or there was some miscommunication between him and the dugout.

      • totalfan62

        When he got what he thought was the hit ‘n run sign–in that spot in the game given his lack of speed and Shark at bat–maybe feign a speck in the eye, time out, step off the base and ask Hayes if he got the sign right.

        Whatever happened, it can’t happen there.

      • Bapah

        Bochy said he didn’t have the “go” on that play. I’ll trust AP’s quote from Bochy.
        “Bochy said Denard Span had the green light, but noted that Conor Gillaspie “wasn’t supposed to go” with Samardzija at the plate.”

        • Matthew

          Denard Span runs like he’s trying to hold in diarrhea as he raced to the toilet…and he’s got a green light?

          • DrLefty

            12 for 19 in stolen base attempts this year. Two things strike me–a leadoff guy with only 19 stolen base attempts in the whole season? And caught stealing 7 of 19 times?

            It’s been clear watching him on the bases and in the outfield that Span has lost a step, maybe two or three. This signing is definitely going into the “30-something veterans whose best days are behind them” file along with Renteria, DeRosa, M. Tejada, Huff, etc., etc., etc. (And by Huff, I mean the contract AFTER the 2010 season.)

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Hell hath no fury like a Bapah scorned.

      (giving Lefty a run for her lucre)

    • totalfan62

      Gillaspie ran on his own, with the pitcher at bat? With his lack of speed, that’s just dumb. Wow.

    • Matthew

      Bapah, the way I saw Bochy look at Kelly, and the way Marge swung at a 3-0 pitch, and Gillaspie ran….my money is on Kelly sending the wrong signs, because BOTH players executed it in an odd spot

      • Bapah

        Ah. Could be, Lad. Nothing would surprise me this year. Let’s hope that was the straw.

      • Kramerica

        It was a 3-1 pitch Samardzija swung at but the point remains the same. I found it incredibly odd they would put on a hit and run in a 3-1 count with the pitcher up and runner at 1st with nobody out. I think Bochy was staring a hole right through Kelly.

  • Banksofthecreeks

    Last night was it for me. My moment of truth came in the inning (7th?) when Belt led off with a walk and Buster promptly hit into a DP. Now in the morning, I am glad I didn’t listen to the rest of the game.
    At the risk of being Dead Wrong in Public — and I’ll be thrilled if I am — I had to recognize that the Giants just don’t have it this year.

  • Kramerica

    I must preface my post by stating that Buster Posey is an All American Hero. He is already one of the most important players in franchise history. He’s well on his way to the HOF and has changed the culture of this organization. He will, and should, be immortalized by the Giants organization when his career is over (which hopefully is not for a long, long time).

    Having said all that, he has been an abject disaster offensively in the second half. He has a Span/Pagan-esque .733 second half OPS with 3 HRs and 8 GIDP. He is still an elite defensive catcher who is critical to this team. But he’s got to get moved out of the 3 hole (which may be too late anyway). Someone posted within the last week the Giants OPS marks for each spot in the batting order. I believe the Giants OPS out of the 3-spot was among the lowest in all of baseball. That is in large part attributable to Posey’s second half. I would move Posey back to the 5/6 spot and move everyone else up. With the way Pence is going, despite his occasional wild hacks, I have no problem with him hitting third. Watching Posey kill a colony of worms in the second half has been excruciating to watch.

    • DrLefty

      To the degree anyone’s been “hot” this past month, it’s Pence. He should probably hit third. Last night I was hoping and praying that Posey would draw a walk and get the game to Pence, who was 7-16 against that closer.

      • Peter Johnson

        He should have walked the Pitch he swung at was low and outside, Greg Papa mentioned on his show yesterday that Bam Bam, had should him all the hitting stats this year, and Papa thought Pence does not hit the slider, but actually Pence hits .299 vs the slider, and Papa thought Posey hits every pitch, but Posey hits .170 vs the slider, and worse then that in the 2nd half .

        • Kramerica

          Posey hasn’t hit anything in the second half other than an extremely hollow .278.

          • Peter Johnson

            You know why ? he is swinging at bad pitches, he should be at least Walking more, like Belt is, but instead he protects the plate and makes weak contact on pitches that are balls, he does not strikeout that much, but weak grounders are just as bad and worse when they end up being double plays .

          • DrLefty

            Yeah, for all Belt’s the one getting the crap from Sabean, he at least got on base twice last night–and immediately was doubled up/stranded by Posey both times.

          • Peter Johnson

            Even on the radio this morning Brian Murphy saying even though Posey did not come through last night, and is having his worst full season as a Giant, he is still has been the Giants best hitter this year, except maybe Pence, but Pence has missed a lot of games, another joker , that just looks at batting average .

          • DrLefty

            He is definitely having his worst year at the plate:

            .286/.358/.436/.794 , OPS+ 112

            vs. career average:.306/.372/.476/.848 , OPS+ 136

            His previous worst year was 2013 (15 HRs, 73 RBIs), but even then, his overall numbers were better– OPS .821, OPS + 134.

            Now, that’s still not a bad year, especially for a catcher, and he’s never been better defensively, in my opinion, but it definitely was not what they’re counting on from him.

          • Eric Ritz

            Who watching this team would think that Posey has been the best overall hitter this year??

      • Kramerica

        I fell asleep putting my daughter to bed so I missed it. But I briefly woke up when Posey was up with a 3-2 count. Opened the MLB app and saw the dreaded “In Play, Outs” and went back to bed. The only other game I’ve fallen asleep for recently was Strickland’s melt down against the Padres when they blew a 3 run 9th inning lead…a game btw that is looking pretty big right now. Your point is well taken, I find myself when Posey is up hoping he doesn’t make an out (or multiple outs) rather than previously watching with anticipation of him getting a big hit.

    • Mr. Sarcastic

      I’m not so sure about his lock on the HOF just yet…

      • Kramerica

        If he retired tomorrow maybe not, but given his career accomplishments he could be a marginal catcher for the next 3-4 years and get in. The bar for catchers is not nearly as high as other positions. And even though Posey’s second half offensively has been terrible, his career numbers, both offensively and defensively, as far as catchers go are off the charts. Those 3 rings will speak loudly as well.

        • Mr. Sarcastic

          Let’s just hope that his 2nd half performance this year is just an aberration and not the new normal!

          • Kramerica

            It better be or this organization is in trouble. Out of sheer hope (and past performance) I’m going with aberration.

          • Bapah

            He’s not healthy and that’s been for a good spell.

  • Skweezplay55

    I was puzzled by the ninth inning last night. Kelby’s double was ripped, and I was thinking that the Giants are due to pull one out. Gorkys seemed like a good choice to hit against the LHP. Not good when you have a RH batter with power up against a LHP and the batter strikes out on four pitches. Very disappointed with that AB. Then, Span comes up. Now, wasn’t there ANYONE on the bench — a RH batter — that could have come in to hit. Yes, the Rockies would likely have brought in a RHP so you still might not get a super favorable matchup, but leaving Span in that situation seemed very nearly hopeless. Sure enough, slider in the dirt and he whiffs. Next, Belt gets that infield hit where the P failed to cover. Good move to bring in the PR Blanco, but why did he never try to steal 2B? Buster has not shown great power, but is a high average hitter. The chance of Buster delivering a two-run single seemed higher than the chance of Buster hitting something for extra bases. Was it Blanco? If so, was there someone else who could have been called on to steal that base? Was the pitcher’s unload time remarkably fast? Didn’t appear so. Too distracting to Posey to have the runner moving? Too risky to have the game end with Buster in the box? That was probably it. I just think you gotta run in that situation.

    • DrLefty

      The Span AB was puzzling. Bochy’s been platooning him against lefty starters. It was a huge moment in the game. Gorkys had already pinch hit that inning and could have been inserted to play CF. They still had Brown, Adrianza, or Beckham on the bench to bat RH. And if you get the lefty out of the game when you pinch hit, that sets it up better for Belt next, too.

      I didn’t think about Blanco (not) trying to steal, but maybe after two guys already caught stealing, Bochy was feeling a bit gunshy. And there were two outs, so Buster wasn’t going to hit into a double play.

  • Skweezplay55

    Am I correct thinking the Giants’ magic number vs StL is 4?

  • Sam AKA Unknown

    I have a gut feeling that not only will the Giants fail to get into any type of Wild Card game but they will be knocked out and eliminated by the Dodgers. That’s the worst blow of this. Getting eliminated at home by the Dodgers after blowing a one game lead with five left. Just a feeling the way the season has gone.

  • Matthew

    The beauty of a pennant race is each win shows our boys to be perfectly poised to win it all, and each loss shows that they are worthless losers with no chance.

    1 game up, 4 to play. None of us have any idea what happens these next 4 days…don’t bail. This could be epic

    • Peter Johnson

      The Pitchers the Giants are facing, Gray pitching great of late, Hill pitching great this year, Kershaw pitches great all the time, Meada pitching great this year, Pitchers the Cards are facing not so good .

      • Matthew

        So, you are bailing? Just trying to figure out what you mean.

        Can you predict the outcomes?

        • Peter Johnson

          Never, hoping with my heart, but my brain not looking good, the way the Giants do not hit good pitching .

          • Matthew

            In general, I align…but I am believing the bats will wake up and surprise. Hang in…they can do this

          • crawnik

            We are TWG. We believe.

    • DrLefty

      Last night made me sad. Samardzija was dealing. The night before, so was Moore. And they’re our #3-4 starters! It made me really want to see them in a postgame series…but they might not get there.

      It reminds me a lot of both the 2009 and 2011 teams–the great pitching, no one wanted them in a playoff series (I remember the 2009 Phillies, who won the pennant that year, saying that!)–but they fell short and never got the chance.

    • Kramerica

      Nobody who is still posting on here is bailing (despite some remarks to the contrary, none of us can look away). The second half has been pure torture (and none of it in a good way like 2010) but nobody is bailing with 4 games left. I think the Giants find a way to sneak in. I think the Pirates will come up big for the Giants in their final 3 games against STL. Just do us a favor Giants and win tonight, do NOT lose another home series against an inferior opponent.

      • Matthew

        Read below…a few are posturing as if they are. I know they won’t… What a crazy, maddening year

    • The Oracle

      Which win showed they are poised to win it all? I think I must’ve missed that game.

      • DrLefty

        The one where they scored 12 runs on 19 hits, had 10 XBHs, and the starter had 11 Ks.

        • The Oracle

          Within the context of the second half, I don’t place too much stock in one win.

          • Matthew

            obviously you don’t…

            I know what trends say happen over these 4 days. No idea how it plays out. And, if you don’t think MadBum, Cueto, Good Moore, Marge don’t scare EVERY other team, you aren’t paying attention.

          • DrLefty

            Well, no. But you asked “which win,” so I answered it. They looked like world beaters in that game. Sadly, there won’t be any 21-year-old rookies making their second big league start in the postseason if the Giants get there.

      • crawnik

        Any of the 57 they won in the first half. The 12-6 home opener over the Bums with a Pence grand slam proved that.

  • Kramerica

    Good to see Pagan going strong in his final days as a Giant. His September numbers are .182/.236/.273 with an OPS+ of 41. But hey, at least he plays gold glove defense out there. Wouldn’t want to have KT get some starts in LF, his defense out there could really hurt the team.

    • Eric Ritz

      Pagan obviously just needs ALL of the at bats, to get him going. It’s not like there’s been documented proof that shows Pagan plays better the more frequently he is rested…

    • DrLefty

      Well, Pagan did look great at the plate on Tuesday–they all did. But holy moley was Pagan awful in LF last night. He just seems to have decided that shallow fly balls can either fall in or Crawford will get them, but whatever.

      • Matthew

        He did the same on CarGo’s shot over his head…rough game for optics on effort

      • earlytimes

        Not sure I want Pagan diving for balls. Keep it to a single is better than having it get past him for a triple or worse.

      • Kramerica

        KT brings an energy this team needs. In the small sample size of time he has played in LF he’s done fine. Pagan is *clearly* worn out and is hurting this team as much as anyone not named Casilla and Span in September. Problem is, Bochy never gives Angel a day off. He gives Belt and Panik more days off. And his defense is an abomination. Would just really like to see KT get a start or two out there, he needs to be in this lineup to provide a spark. Not weak, weak ground balls to 2B that Pagan has consistently hit this month.

  • Bapah

    Just an aside to break the tension.

    “While Iranians across the political spectrum shy away from publicly supporting Trump – primarily due to his inflammatory rhetoric fueling Islamophobia, xenophobic nationalism and sexism – there are many who believe a Trump presidency will benefit Iran both in bilateral and regional terms.”

    • paul in p.v.

      That’s analogous to thinking los Gigantes will go all the way if, only if, they get to a wild card game. It’s nuts.

    • just peachy.

      Persian here. I don’t know who these Iranians surveyed are, but they’re crazy.

      So are all the women who support Trump. It screams, “hi, I hate myself and my gender and don’t care about feeling empowered or shattering the glass ceiling”. 😉

  • Keep’n It Real

    If I was given the responsibility to fill out the lineup (with Nunez out), I would drop Belt behind Crawford and put Panik back at #2. Panik would see better pitches, can bunt if needed, and has had past success in the spot. Belt at #2…uh no…and he tends to do well without big pressure. I also think I might flip-flop Span and Pagan. Might add some extra motivation for Pagan (he has done well there) and Span has had some of his best games hitting lower in the lineup. Toss a coin over whether Span is #8 or Gillespie. If I was eliminated with that lineup, at least I could sleep at night; knowing that was my best shot.

    • DrLefty

      Tomlinson 3B
      Panik 2B
      Pence RF
      Posey C
      Crawford SS
      Belt 1B
      Pagan LF
      Span CF (though I’d rather have Gorkys for defense and speed)
      Pitcher

      • Keep’n It Real

        I could live with that.

      • You have my vote! Somebody get Lefty Bochy’s email address.

      • I don’t want Pagan and Span in at the same time. If Pagan is in left, then Gorkys is in center. If Span is in center, then Blanco,Parker, Gorkys (Belt even) in left. They are giving up way too much defense with both Span and Pagan out there together.

        • DrLefty

          I cannot disagree with that assessment. It was awful last night in a tight pitching duel seeing the effect that having two weak outfielders in simultaneously had on the progress of the game.

      • crawnik

        I like it, but maybe move Span to LF, Gorkys in CF, and let the diva pinch-hit.

        • DrLefty

          Pagan hits better than Span, but he’s cringeworthy in the outfield. However, Span and his non-arm are not much of an improvement.

          • crawnik

            True.

      • channelclemente

        Belt in the 6hole. You Sabean woman.

        • DrLefty

          I honestly don’t care where anyone hits, including Belt, with the possible exception of getting Span the heck out of the leadoff spot. It was more the public vote of no confidence during crunch time that I objected to.

          Greg Papa asked Alex about it in the pregame, specifically if he thought Sabean was trying to “motivate” Belt with his comments. Alex shrugged and said, “Well, Belt had a great game last night, so that wouldn’t make much sense” and then “Could be just Brian saying stuff.”

          • channelclemente

            Not exactly the brain trust chatting. One would think, rather than silly speculation, they’d just ask Sabean straight up. After all, they are news hounds.

          • DrLefty

            I think Sabean was just saying stuff. He also basically said the bullpen is an embarrassment. I’m sure that didn’t play well, either. I’m sure he’s frustrated and angry about how the year’s gone and looking for someone to blame.

          • channelclemente

            I guess he reads our posts, and concurs. IMO, Evans will fade away into other duties sooner or later this year.

    • Eric Ritz

      Panik has seen these supposedly better pitches while batting #2 for awhile. He’s not doing anything with them. A good hitter can perform wherever needed. I’d rather have the guy with the high OBP.

      • channelclemente

        IMO, Panik is going through the sophomore slump exacerbated by the injury he had.

        • Anti-Lasorda

          I would start KT over Joe when Fast Eddie is back.

          • Keep’n It Real

            Not me. Joe has had post-season success and he is close…

          • channelclemente

            That’s akin to a wish when you blow out birthday candles, and a quote of something I said 2-3 weeks ago. I was wrong.

          • Bapah

            Talk about blowing smoke…

  • Keep’n It Real

    BTW…was anyone else saying outloud…during the 12 run explosion on Tuesday Night…”Save some runs for tomorrow! (Wed)”

    • just peachy.

      Yep!

  • paul in p.v.

    Re the Willie Mac Award – I thought it was teammates only voting. The fans know nothing – they shouldn’t have any influence:

    http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/9/29/13107442/mlb-sf-giants-willie-mac-award-lol-inspirational

    • just peachy.

      Isn’t this the first year fans have had a say?

      • paul in p.v.

        Could be. Ah shit, what do I know. Let ’em vote.

  • Peter Johnson

    Wow, MLB Network is showing Fernandez funeral on TV, not cool, feel sorry for the family and Marlins having cameras pointed at them .

    • just peachy.

      The family agreed to have a public ceremony.

  • RobDeer

    I was a little outta touch over the weekend. I know Cueto is starting tonight but haven’t read/heard anything about how he’s feeling.

    • HaakAway

      Yeah, I hope it is not a push but details should start surfacing soon.
      All I can think is they want him to pitch to try to put the Cards to bed early and take off some pressure for Saturday and Sunday? And it gives him a full week of rest for the opening game with CHI on Friday.

      • RobDeer

        Who’s our projected starter Saturday?

        • RobDeer

          I just checked. Suarez vs Kershaw. That’s wonderful.

          • Michael Scott

            They have Suarez, Cain, Blach, or Peavy. Who would be your choice?
            IMO, they should not push Cueto. Pitch Albert tonight and Johnnie
            on Saturday.

          • RobDeer

            Agreed.

          • Michael Scott

            if Cueto does go tonight, they need to treat it as they would a Suarez or Blach start-all hands on deck. If he doesn’t look right early, don’t wait until we’re down 5 to make a move.

          • Peter Johnson

            I think if they won last night, they might have done that with a 2 game cushion, but they are in desperation mode now, plus anybody vs Kershaw is an underdog, so might as well Pitch Cueto tonight, if healthy ., and if a tie breaker is needed Cueto could pitch Tuesday .

        • HaakAway

          Suarez

    • DrLefty

      He did a bullpen on Tuesday with Bochy watching closely. Right afterwards, they announced he’d be starting tonight.

      • RobDeer

        And we’re really starting Suarez on Saturday?

        • channelclemente

          That’ll teach them not to waste a Samardzija start.

        • 22’sSweetSwing

          what difference does it make? they aren’t very likely to beat Kershaw anyway. and we don’t need the numbers folks to detail it for us but here it is anyway http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-mlb-predictions/giants/

        • Peter Johnson

          The Cards have the same problem , they do not know who they will start Saturday .

        • Anti-Lasorda

          I would go with kid, suarez in reserve

        • paul in p.v.

          If the game counts, things could get interesting.

  • Tulo and Jose the Kid https://vine.co/v/5vFPZq5Bjdr

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Buster Posey has logged over a season’s worth at 1B in his career. His line:

    .340/.395/.532 as a 1B

    as a catcher: .299/.366/.465

    What would it look like down the road if he made full time or half time switch?
    Perhaps the damage is done and can’t really expect inflated production anymore (there’s also the influence of LHP splits at play). But maybe something like .310/.370/.480 with 20+ HRs as full time 1B in SF?

    Hmmm, probably a question that is never answered on the field of play – or perhaps when it’s mostly too late for an assessment nearer his prime.

    • DrLefty

      There’s a confounding variable, though. Buster frequently makes starts at 1B because there’s a lefty starter, so that’s a good time to sit Belt. Buster’s always scorched lefties. So when he’s playing 1B, he’s facing lefties, so is that where he’s playing or who he’s facing in those games?

      • paul in p.v.

        Great point.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          Nice of Lefty to reiterate the point I inserted – and fully flesh it out 🙂

      • Eric Ritz

        It’s amazing how – several years on – people still don’t see how him hitting LHP at 1B can bump his offense. They think he just moves to first and magically becomes peak Miguel Cabrera.

        • Bapah

          Before Duffy, I wanted him to go to 3rd on off days. Seems like Buster might consider that again. It sure beats taking Bob out of the lineup.

    • Peter Johnson

      How is that working for Joe Mauer .

    • Matthew

      The item…the HUGE item…that is left off such an idea is his managing of pitchers, his defense, his influence on the game as catcher.

      To me, Cousin, production is NOT just offensive numbers

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Ain’t that the truth, Cuz – and that’s what WAR is about: estimating total value based on offense and defense, and Posey is always a stud in this category because catcher’s get a positional adjustment as well.

      • paul in p.v.

        Zackly. Unquantifiable addition to the team and pitcher’s performance. Unfortunately it is evinced when young Trevor Brown catches – and that is no reflection on him, since he’s practically learning the position at the ML level.

    • Eric Ritz

      But then the Giants wouldn’t have his excellent play behind the plate. I’d rather have the 130 wRC+ catcher than the 150 wRC+ 1B. Whether he can get to 130 is another question, but I’d also rather have his catching defense with a 110 wRC+ than him at first with a 130 wRC+. He’s just too valuable behind the plate IMO.

      • DrLefty

        He’s 115 wRC+ for this year, his worst offensive season–but probably also headed for his first Gold Glove. So right about where you said.

        • Peter Johnson

          Gold Glove is all about reputation, Molina has a big reputation, so would not be shocked if he won it again .

          • Anti-Lasorda

            Might come down to which team makes the playoffs, and which one is watching at home.

          • Eric Ritz

            Gold Glove choices have been getting better and better the last couple years. There are still usually a couple of head scratchers, but not nearly as bad as in the past. Posey should have won it last year, and deserves it even more this year.

        • Eric Ritz

          Plus – and I think you’re with me on this – I don’t think this 115 wRC+ is the new normal for Posey going forward. The back and/or wrist injury is clearly affecting things at the moment. If he comes back next year with the same catching defense and a 125 wRC+ (career average 136) then he’s still extremely valuable.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            that would be nice – He’s also subject to further decline or an impact injury that sidelines him for large chunk of season. It’s hard to say right now what the future holds for Posey. With Belt we can assume a wRC+ of 130-140, batting .270 something with 15-20 HRs and 70-80 RBIs.

          • Kramerica

            It better not be the new normal or the Giants are in deep $hit going forward. This team is built, to a large degree, around Posey’s offensive production. They need .300/20/90 seasons from him to be an above average offense. When he doesn’t hit at that level, like this year, the results are painful. His bat, which is *usually* a plus at any position, makes up for many offensive deficiencies with others on the team. But when his production suffers and this team regularly runs out Pagan and Span in the OF, mixed in with Crawford and Belt’s second halves, it cannot overcome that offensively.

    • Bapah

      I disbelieve in right-handed 1st basemen.

    • paul in p.v.

      I was thinking about Bench’s switch to 3B, and what preceded/precipitated that. Don’t recall any serious injuries.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Joe Torre as well.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          but different time, when men were men.

  • Warriors visit Quentin http://tinyurl.com/D-U-B-S-visit-the-Q

    I took two summer teams to Quentin: First time went smooth until my leadoff hitter stole second in the 5th inning and asked the second baseman – “what are you in for” – Response: “I murdered my wife”. He then took a Ginormous lead and was picked off.

    Second time was a complete embarrassment: 18 players – 4 coaches and 12 parents all show up on time and are standing in line. Things go smoothly until a player at the end, say the 16th player in line, shows up with (a) No CDL and upon checking his wallet they find (b) a CDL expired over two years. Our entire group was turned around and shown the door by some very large guards. The kid was obviously embarrassed and there was a rumor that the kids who drove the car he was in – dropped him off in San Rafael in various forms of undress.

  • DrLefty

    Leaders in various offensive categories this year (top three for each), throwing in (Pence) despite his more limited sample size just for information

    Average:
    (Pence .294)
    Posey .286
    Belt .273
    Crawford/Pagan .271

    OBP:
    Belt .390
    (Pence .364)
    Posey .358

    SLG:
    Belt .468
    (Pence .462)
    Posey .438

    OPS
    Belt .858
    (Pence .826)
    Posey .794

    OPS+
    Belt 129
    (Pence 120)
    Posey 112
    Crawford 104

    wRC+
    Belt 135
    Posey 115
    Crawford 105

    H
    Posey 150
    Crawford 145
    Belt 144

    BB
    Belt 100
    Posey 60
    Crawford 55

    K
    Belt 146
    Crawford 111
    (Pence 90)

    HR
    Belt 16
    Posey 14
    (Pence 13)
    Crawford 12

    RBI
    Crawford 82
    Belt 78
    Posey 75

    SB
    Pagan 14
    Nunez 13
    Span 12
    (Duffy 8!)

    • Eric Ritz

      Wow, our guy who should be hitting 7th has been really good this year!

      • Mr. Sarcastic

        No stolen bases though!! He’s a bum!

      • Keep’n It Real

        His best success…with a legitimate sample size…is batting 6th (.329). 40 points higher BA than at the 4th/5th slots and 80 points higher than at the 3rd spot.

        • channelclemente

          But 50-60 points lower than his short term/low sample number tenure in the 2hole.

          • Keep’n It Real

            I know, right? The last I checked, you want a #2 guy that makes contact and can move the lead-off guy over. I love Belt, but he flourishes in LU positions where he’s not expected to perform at a clutch/high-level. The #2 slot is not only a little too clutch/high-level for him, but he leads the team in strikeouts by a lot (11th in the NL) and he couldn’t bunt to save his life (even with no one at 3B).

          • channelclemente

            I’m not making a case for anything but being transparent with the options. What you’re saying is essentially what Sabean was reported to have said earlier this week. Anybody who looks can see his atrocious K% and studied inability to take a pitch to the opposite field are his Achilles heal. He’s managed in my humble opinion to morph from hard headed and obstinate, to talented but stupid.

          • DrLefty

            Belt’s K rate this season is 23%. That’s 35th highest in the majors.

          • channelclemente

            The issue isn’t ranking its first half performance vs second half performance. There is not merit in missing the forest for the trees.

            https://i.imgur.com/mkWxm2O.png

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Love these.

          • Eric Ritz

            Any chance we can see one for O-Swing or Swing %? Curious what is different about his approach versus how he’s been pitched, versus what he’s been told to do. I know he’s very aggressive in the zone and lays off most stuff out of the zone, curious if any of that has changed over the season.

          • channelclemente

            What’s more informative, IMO, is his O-zone swing % along side his pull %, against mostly shift defenses. If this does scream…change your approach hardhead, little does. The Giants see these data I know, and Muelins must have a mark on the clubhouse wall from banging his head in frustration.

            https://i.imgur.com/emxrvdA.png

          • Eric Ritz

            So his worst month this season was July, where does that fall in the graph? Around game 110? Because on that graph those numbers look really similar to June, around game 80 (?) which was when he was having his best month. His numbers have been weirdly successful in times of bad approach, and weirdly awful at times when he’s using a good approach. Not always, but I’ve seen him using what I thought was a good approach and getting terrible results.

            Edit: Meant game 110 instead of 100

          • Eric Ritz

            Panik is 1 for 3 on bunt attempts this year. Belt is 1 for 2. You stated you want Panik there to “bunt if needed”. It’s not what Bochy is going to use the #2 slot for. I’d rather have a high OBP guy batting 2nd than a high contact guy who doesn’t make hard contact. If the leadoff hitter gets on, Belt is a guy who will see a lot of pitchers per PA. If that leadoff guy is someone with instincts, that will afford him plenty of chances to get a good jump. And if that leadoff hitter DOES get a good jump, why would they need a soft hitting contact guy behind him? I’d rather increase the chances of getting our high OBP guys on base.

          • Keep’n It Real

            Has Belt successfully batted 2nd in a World Series run? No. Panik? Absolutely.

            Panik was the answer to the Giants’ prayers to replace Marco Scutaro in the 2 spot and at 2nd base. He was successful there and has been fighting back from his concussion injury.

            Once again, always been a Belt supporter…but this #2 slot thing is a disaster about to become a bigger one; regardless of his OBP…which was largely due to his work at #6.

          • Eric Ritz

            .629 OPS is a successful postseason for a #2 hitter?

          • Keep’n It Real

            Oh good…we’re going to play the pick/choose slice/dice stats game. You want Belt at #2 and I want Panik. Agree to disagree.

          • Eric Ritz

            I read “World Series run” to mean the actual postseason, so I picked his numbers from that postseason. If you instead meant it to mean the entire 2014 season leading up to the postseason (just counting the time he was the actual starter), then I’m still not sure why Panik having a successful run two years ago makes him a better candidate than Belt.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            I’ve always liked the notion of Belt batting 2nd. I think good things will eventually come of it – especially if he relaxes and stays within himself and if the Giants get another hitter, like a legit 3 hitter!

          • Keep’n It Real

            🙂

          • Eric Ritz

            I’m just reallllly failing to see how a guy who has shown he can hit really well in the 2nd and 3rd spots would be a “disaster”. I mean, that’s some drama right there. “Disaster”. Pagan and Panik have barely put up a .700 OPS there this year, but NOW this #2 slot is about to become a bigger disaster. Right.

          • Keep’n It Real

            But he’s not hitting well at #3. In fact, that’s been his weakest LU spot out of #3 through #6 (by far).

            BTW…I really don’t like Pagan there. Part of me think he doesn’t want Span to succeed as a “I told you so…”.

          • Eric Ritz

            At least we can agree on not liking Pagan there 🙂
            I’m just not seeing the lack of success for Belt at 3rd. Even with all his slumps this year he’s still at an .803 OPS at 3rd this season, .815 on his career. It’s not far off from his career .802 at 5th and .840 at 6th. That seems like a range he’s going to land in, .780-.860, and I don’t see it suddenly cratering with a move to #2. Panik on his career is at .760 in the #2 spot. Would Belt really be a disaster compared to that?

          • DrLefty

            Belt also has the highest OBP on the team at .390, so there’s that. A walk moves a runner over, too. And Bochy almost never bunts with the #2 hitter, anyway.

          • Keep’n It Real

            Lefty…come on…do you really want Belt batting second? His success has been down in the lineup and we both know that.

          • Bapah

            Why not?

          • Bapah

            And OBP

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            at the theoretical level , the only thing that really matters is the wOBA.

    • Matthew

      It shows two things to me:

      1) we know who the top performers are

      2) The top performers all had less-than-stellar totoals

      • Anti-Lasorda

        no career or break out year by anyone…… usually means mediocrity

    • channelclemente

      It might make more sense to look at those yearly numbers in smaller pieces to tell a story. Maybe year, 1st/2nd half, and 30 day. Take your Dramamine first though.

      • Bapah

        and by position in the lineup.

        • channelclemente

          That’s a winter sport.

    • paul in p.v.

      p.s. Of course, Nuñez stole +32 (33?) bases in the A.L. And I think Duffy’s only been CS once in 2 seasons (prior to the Tampa trade).

      I think I read that after last night’s stellar performance, Span is now 13-for-20. What a leadoff guy!

    • Bapah

      I’d leave Belt in 2 hole

    • Thanks Lefty. I would feature this great post if it was not so long and vertical!

  • Michael Scott

    Tonight’s LU, reality version- same as last night with the hope that KT replaces CG.

    • Bapah

      Do you really believe that?

      • Michael Scott

        Believe what? About KT? No. that’s why I said “hope”.The rest of last night’s LU is fine. Don’t go all Freaksvile on me- getting shut out by Chatwood is hardly reason to change the LU .

        • Bapah

          Do you really believe that the lineup would be better with KT?

          • Michael Scott

            Maybe not.I just wanted to show my support for Lefty’s support for KT 😉

          • Matthew

            Softie

    • Matthew

      I don’t think Bruce will do that, Chef

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      CG is just getting warm. I can smell a walk-off. Either by a CG HR, or a KT PH.

      • channelclemente

        Do you have a mustache, and did you recently eat a garlic laden dish?

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          leftover spaghetti for lunch – and yes, going with unshaven look. You’ve got the power.

  • channelclemente
  • cynic

    I don’t know what the Shark’s run support is, but seems like he’s getting the short end of the stick a lot lately.

  • vixenflem

    So who is going to be there tonight? I am going, albeit reluctantly….I will sprinkle uber mojo win energy on our boys…

  • just peachy.

    Just realized today that I’ve been to the last game of the year every year for the last 4 years. Breaking the pattern this year 🙁 Damn you dodgers series for driving up the price of tickets!

    (2013 was my favorite fan appreciation day – we won on a walk-off single by Pence and I got to watch Zito’s last pitches as a Giant)

    • DrLefty

      Hey, I was at that game, too! Great game, great memory. In fact, the picture I put on my guest blog a few days ago was taken at that game.

  • RobDeer

    I’m at the DMV. It’s a good thing for everybody here that I don’t have a weapon.

    • Sgbssfg

      Our local one looks like a casting call for Deliverance.

      • RobDeer

        I just got scolded by the creature behind me for not moving forward in line fast enough despite the fact there’s 19 people ahead of us. I won’t share what my response was.

    • vixenflem

      I refer to the DMV as DDMV Damn Dysfunctional MV

    • Use your belt

      • RobDeer

        I didn’t bring any music with headphones. Rookie move.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    I can just imagine the Cards fans on the ether-net…

    That’s it. Season is over. Throwing in the towel. Leadoff triple in the ninth and they can’t bring him home.
    No clutch hitters, live and die by the long ball, weak defense, Wainwright is done…

    • RobDeer

      If they had Conor, they would’ve cashed in on that leadoff triple.

      • Or if they had Gordon Beckham they would be in first place! Bam! I just discovered the secret strategy behind that acquisition: to keep him away from the Cardinals and Mets!

        • RobDeer

          They must’ve been rueing their lack of foresight.

          • You read it here first! Don’t be surprised if TWG is quoted on espn.com or fangraphs tomorrow!

  • This could happen at the end of the NOON game of fan appreciation day. Who might channel Rick Vaughn versus the Dodgers in the Top of the 9th vs Yasiel Puig with bases loaded, two outs and the Giants leading 2 to nothing…..

    * Strickland
    * Romo
    * Law

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g545LhuEnI

    • crawnik

      MadBum. Now, that would be priceless.

  • channelclemente

    The mistake, IMO, folks keep making trying to explain Belt and other Giants players 2nd half performance is referring to a statistic or metric from previous years or using comps/rankings of other players. Fans believe that past performance predicts future performance and usually it does over enough time. But with the situation the Giants have created for themselves, I think doing that /those exercise(s) is futile. What we’ve seen play out with the Giants this year hasn’t actually happened before to this degree in modern MLB. About all you can compare and still be honest and meaningful is first half/second half numbers or shorter term metrics, and trend lines of more familiar/comfortable statistics. Nothing else illustrates the degree and extent of this meltdown and last minute struggle climb into a post season lifeboat, IMO. So anyone who wants to make a salient point using numbers that say something about the Giants should, I think, get acquainted with the GRAPH button over on the Fangraphs front page.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      But we like it when you roll out the rolling averages 🙂

      • channelclemente

        After being cute, I’m going to assume you recognize the difference between smoothing, and averaging over a season. Right?

    • 22’sSweetSwing

      Can we expect any kind of leadership to snap this funk? to get them to not press any more if they make the playoffs? should they have a huge party? sacrifice something on a bonfire? Have some player or front office guy or outsider give a impactful speech?

      • crawnik

        One would have to ask Pence how come he hasn’t done a motivational speech. He’s too busy making short vids about coffee with his gal.

        • Kramerica

          At least he’s hitting. That’s more than we can say about the rest of the lineup save Nunez in September until he got hurt.

          • Eric Ritz

            Pence has surely been offense MVP in September. Belt has also done very well. Posey has had some moments. Everyone else has been a non-factor at best, or been Span, Pagan, Adrianza or Brown at worst.

          • DrLefty

            Belt has an almost .900 OPS in September.

        • channelclemente

          To some extent, I think your right.

      • channelclemente

        How would that work? IMO, they’ve somehow forgotten how to play baseball or really care about one another. They’ve got about 4-5 days to realize it’s not really all about them as individuals.

    • Post for September

  • Keep’n It Real

    Monte Poole ‏@MontePooleCSN 3m3 minutes ago
    Mark your calendars, #Warriors fans: Kevin Durant bobblehead night at Oracle Arena is scheduled for Monday, Nov. 28.

    • crawnik

      Awesome. I’ll look for it on ebay.

    • DrLefty

      I need new computer glasses. I first read that as “bobsled” and I thought what the….

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Another installment of Fake Trades…

    I know Lefty feels Belt has been disrespected and mishandled like many others in the org. So in vein of finding Belt a better home, how about Toronto?

    There have been rumors about the Jays having interesting in acquiring Joey Votto. How about the next best thing, Brandon Belt? His HR numbers would experience a significant boost. The Jays would be set at the corners!

    So what would the Giants get in return? How about at catcher for starters …
    – Reese McGuire, former first round pick, defense minded catcher, last level AA.
    – Then a CFer: Kevin Pillar – has great defensive chops.
    -Then some pitching to finish the deal : bring back Joe Biagini for the pen?

    Who doesn’t say no? Anyone?

    Have a good afternoon in the real world.

    • To paraphrase MLBSF yesterday: Put whatever it is your are smoking down and walk away…

      • RobDeer

        What if he’s eaten three tabs?

        • Then he needs to drink 18 glasses of water and lie down after he shuts down his computer….

          • RobDeer

            I think he needs to find a field and frolic.

          • or that too!

    • Eric Ritz

      Belt in Rogers Centre would be amazing. And Pillar in AT&T would be a thing of beauty.
      Thanks for the reminder that they couldn’t ever find room for Biagini. Think of the other bullpen duds that got a shot instead!!

      • DrLefty

        Duvall is the one we talk about, but at least they traded him for something they needed at the time. They just lost Biagini for nothing, and yeah, they sure could have used him.

        • 2holehitting

          Duvall had the right handed pull hitter power that plays at ATT. Then again Duffy also had a nice ability to pull and drive the ball out to left.

    • Kramerica

      If the Giants sold on Belt for a defensive minded backup catcher, an all defense minimal bat journeyman type CF and a RP they already had in their system the entire FO should be fired. I am stunned that you think that is the best return the Giants could get from the Jays. As GG says below, put down the pipe and slowly walk away.

      • paul in p.v.

        Too late! He’s lost his brains!!

      • Eric Ritz

        Perhaps he was like me and thought/assumed Pillar was hovering around a mid 90s wRC+ as he has been the last couple season. I didn’t realize he was at 79 this year. Yikes. He’s got Span’s OPS, but playing in the AL East. Wowza.

        • Kramerica

          Pillar is only a starting CF on (1) a bad team or (2) a team like the Jays who can mash everywhere else in the order (and have a 42+ HR DH). Otherwise, he’s a defensive replacement type player who can start a few times per week. I’m not joking when I say I wouldn’t give up Law for the package he mentions let alone an “All Star” 1B.

          • 2holehitting

            Technically then the Giants qualify as a team where Pillar can start.

          • Kramerica

            Touche.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        what do you think of Sean Reid Foley and Rowdy Tellez?

        I think I had the money in mind – which is no small sum, around 60 million owed on Belt versus Pillar’s minimum + arb. Would have to scout up McGuire for sure 🙂

        • Kramerica

          Both are intriguing. MiLB numbers look great. But Foley is only in high A so he’s presumably a ways away and who knows how that translates to the upper levels. Tellez is mashing in AA so who knows. But Foley is only 84 on BA top 100 and Tellez isn’t even on there so these guys are quite a ways from can’t miss prospects.

      • Bapah

        They had an all defense CF with a great arm and terrific range and they cut him.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          who?

          • Eric Ritz

            Juan Perez?

          • Bapah

            J. Perez

    • Bapah

      If Bob went to Toronto, he’s stick out like the CN Tower.

  • channelclemente

    Assuming a picture is worth a thousand words, this one sort of tells the tale of Belt’s season, with all it’s flashes and failures.

    https://i.imgur.com/emxrvdA.png

  • http://www.worldbaseballclassic.com/news/article/202969738/

    NEW YORK — With Israel a win away from earning the last spot at the 2017 World Baseball Classic, Justine Siegal could soon be coaching in the world’s premier international baseball tournament.

  • The stat I look at and care about the most is what’s a hitter do with runners in scoring position. Can he drive the home, move them over, or does he choke the chicken. In high school our coach would give you the stank eye if you failed. In college our coach worked with you, thus we had a decent success rate. In the pros, we get caught up with averages. I like what a batter can do under pressure. Like Duffys full rookie year, he wanted to be that guy. Good hitters want it. They are the guys. They want to be the guy who drives the runner home. No second thought about failing.

    • paul in p.v.

      You just made me miss Duffman all over again CJ.

      • Except Duffman would not be part of this last stretch or going forward – even if he were never traded.

    • 2holehitting

      I believe good hitters come up and hit good from the get go. Mediocre and streaky hitters struggle and shine. Eventually the struggles outweight the shine. Duffy and Panil they hit everywhere, they have nice compact repeatable swings. Panik even has show some good power this year

  • Kramerica

    Sabean’s shot at Belt the other day was unnecessary, especially considering the struggles with everyone else on offense. But, whether he’s just “shooting his mouth off” or not, I kinda like that he’s making it known out there on the airwaves how unacceptable the second half has been. I’m tired of hearing the crap about “uhhh, just gotta get ’em going” and being painfully slow to make needed changes. Sabean is clearly pissed off and he’s letting everyone know. This signals to me they will aggressively address the bullpen (and hopefully offensive) deficiencies in the offseason.

    Calling the blown saves by the bullpen an “embarrassment” is true, it has been incredibly embarrassing (and painful). Maybe he just wanted to wait until the end of the regular season to sound off but personally I have no problem with it. I’d rather hear that from the GM/President of Baseball Ops/Whatever the Hell his Title Is than the BS Bochy constantly spits out. I understand not interacting with the players everyday allows Sabean to say things that Bochy can’t. But at least the most important people in the organization are as frustrated as we are. Others may disagree but I have no problem with Sabean spittin’ some fire (as long as he doesn’t single guys out like he did with Belt).

    • Eric Ritz

      “as long as he doesn’t single guys out like…Belt”
      Except who’s been the guy singled out on the team far more than any other player the last 5 years?

      • Kramerica

        The point is that Sabean is letting it be known publicly how unacceptable this second half has been. And while he did say it’s largely up to the players he didn’t exactly absolve Bochy of blame. It signals to me they will do what is necessary to fix it. The organization clearly has always looked at Belt with some disdain so I just mostly ignore it when they publicly criticize him. I sure as hell don’t agree with it but he’s not going anywhere unless they get a hold of the stuff Finch is smoking.

        • Eric Ritz

          Oh I agree with what you’re saying. We just all know that it’s always going to be Belt getting singled out.

      • Before a player becomes a Giant they bring a dozen new players/draftees to the clubhouse at Willie Mays Field and they sit down and listen to Mays-Bonds-Snow-Dunston-Gardy-Winn-Aurilia etc and they get the message that they are now “professional baseball players”.

        Belt knows the drill.

    • DrLefty

      I’m OK with some truth being told, too, but I question the timing. It’s been a rough second half for everyone, and I’m sure especially the players–but here they are, still fighting for a playoff spot with four games to go. How does it possibly help the players THIS WEEK to have their boss calling them out on the radio? If they aren’t already motivated just from the calendar and the standings, I don’t think any Sabean rants are going to wake them up. It could just unsettle them (thinking especially of young bullpen guys; Belt seems pretty thick-skinned) and make them press harder.

      • Kramerica

        I think the timing of it is because no matter what happens in the last four games the second half is an abject disaster and waiting until well after the season wouldn’t have quite the same affect. And he’s also really frustrated and is less diplomatic in general than many other GMs/Presidents/Whatevers (which I personally don’t have a problem with). The flip side to your argument is that even if it “doesn’t wake them up” if it “unsettles” them then they were never cut out for the postseason anyway. I’m not saying objectively Sabean calling out the team is the right thing to do. Rather, I’m just saying I like it and this team deserves to be called out by their boss for this crap they’ve put everyone through. There is no excuse for performing the way they have over this second half, none.

        • I hope Sabean took that @@@@ into the clubhouse first and ripped them a new one. He arranged their salaries and has every right to be pissed off for this second half decadent play. Did that happen to be on Tuesday radio? The night they got 19 hits?

    • https://audioboom.com/boos/5101359-9-27-brian-sabean-says-the-bullpen-has-been-embarrassing-this-season

      I have listened twice now. Sabean does have that New England outer shell where he doesn’t really care how he is perceived but he also prefaces the Belt comments as is heard above. When he played for Augie Garrido at UT they were still using minus 5 and minus 3 metal bats. The Redsox and Braves both drafted him as a LH pitcher. The Cape Cod League intro’d BB9 to wood. Earlier he had to be asked to tweak the over-rotation of his top hand/knuckles that only allowed him to hit one certain type of pitch. He used to also wrap the bat around his head. BB9 has gotten much better but his lefty swing is not of the Sweet variety that so many other Lefty’s have. Most hitters after they make changes or tweaks “Revert to Form” without knowing it. Most hitters asked to make changes after they have already been successful in the minors – have trouble making those changes and that is actually really really normal.

      BB9’s left handed swing does not remind me of anybody in recent or far past. Not Will, not Barry, not JT, not Chris Davis. I am not talking about their production I am talking about the fluidity and smoothness that most Lefty hitters have because their swing leads them also out of the batters box on their way to first base. When he is able to continually foul off a two strike pitch that the opposing pitcher is throwing – that is that pitchers Get Him Out Pitch and when he is able to Turn that Same Pitch Around safely then he MIGHT be a 3-4-5 type hitter.

      http://www.mercurynews.com/2013/08/12/giants-brandon-belt-gets-a-grip-on-new-swing/

    • 2holehitting

      It is a fair call out. Belt was given a big pay raise and long term contract to produce. He has not so far. This puts him on notice of displeasure with his performance and the probably slight of getting his Christmas bonus

      • Eric Ritz

        Crawford was given a very similar pay raise and has produced worse at the plate. Yet Crawford is viewed as a clutch hero.

      • Kramerica

        He’s been the best offensive player on the team. I understand that is taken with a grain of salt considering the offensive ineptitude of this team. But (a) it’s unnecessary to call out your best offensive player (even with the spike in his K rate in the second half) and (b) I don’t agree with publicly singling out guys. I’m not that bothered by the fact that he called out Belt, but I just don’t agree with it.

        • 2holehitting

          The art of management is the ability to call out the ones that have lead the team but are under performing. That gets the sutle message to the others that if they can dump on him and he is doing better than me then I have to be carefull and work harder.

      • Michael Scott

        A GG caliber defender, 16 HR 39 doubles 78 RBI – .390 OBP .858 OPS 129 OPS+
        Yeah, he sucks.

  • channelclemente
  • channelclemente

    You think we’ve had a troll problem from time to time, this is what happen when trolls unit.

    http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trump-clinton-debate-online-polls-4chan-the-donald/

  • steve k

    geo with the guy who’s “sittin’ on a bail of hay, he aint good lookin’, but he sure can play”. should be a fun night . the DVR is set to record the jints. a win would make it a great night…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–AvCsh48bk

  • If the Cardinals and Giants tie for the 2nd wild card, is there a play in game or are Giants eliminated due to season series?
    @hankschulman – There would be a one-game play-in at Busch Stadium on Monday.

    • channelclemente

      Play in at St Louis.

      • That is what is says above

        • channelclemente

          538 agrees. 😉

  • RobDeer

    After three hours in the DMV waiting to renew my registration, when I had #B125, it got to B124 and then called other numbers for 35 minutes, “Sir, do you have a current smog check?”
    Arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

    • You should have hired me as your Personal Shopper.

      #RememberNextTime

    • Matthew

      I have a AAA membership for the specific reason of using their DMV station in their office. I don’t have car insurance thru them. It’s worth every penny

      • I love our local AAA office. They give out new plate stickers like a hot knife through butter.

      • DrLefty

        I just do my registration online. If you have a smog check notice, you just take it for the inspection and they automatically send the “pass” to the DMV. Then you can go online and pay it. Piece of cake. Been doing it that way for at least ten years. dmv.ca.gov

    • 2holehitting

      Which is why you always make an appointment.

    • paul in p.v.

      So lame.

  • channelclemente

    I don’t know whether to admire or dislike Kershaw. Just in time for the Giants, he’s adding a new pitch.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/clayton-kershaw-experimented-on-the-rockies/

    • 2holehitting

      Kershaw is the Cats meow of pitchers. Any team takes him in a heartbeat. You have to admire that.

    • vixenflem

      New pitches take a while to perfect. Let’s hope it is an utter disaster when he comes to play us…one could only hope

      • paul in p.v.

        Yo vixen – by the time it’s ‘new’ (to us) – it’s kicking ass on the hitters.

    • Kramerica

      Are admire and dislike mutually exclusive? I kinda feel both when it comes to Kershaw.

  • Hope the riff in the clubhouse doesn’t impact the outcome tonight.

    • Michael Scott

      What’s that about?

      • We’ll soon see. I’ll point it out during the game and then you can draw your own conclusions. I’m pissed at this team for the 31% effort last night.

        • Michael Scott

          I can see what happens on the field but you might want to explain it to the AAAA commenters . BTW,I think that you meant “rift” unless the boys were gettin’ down his afternoon.

          • Were they pickin with Willie Nelson?

  • Kramerica

    Lineup is out. Good to see Span leading off and Conor in there at 3B again.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Gitterdun!

      • Michael Scott

        Span-Rod had the huge HR on 24th the to put the game away. On the 27th he doubled to jump start the big rally, On the 23rd, he lead off 2 innings with a base hit and a walk.His OPS is .786 for the last 7 days.That’s some pretty good production from a lead off guy,

    • 22’sSweetSwing

      pathetic

      • Matthew

        12 runs a couple games ago…think positive

    • Peter Johnson

      You expected different vs another Right handed starting pitcher, that is Bochy’s lineup, with Nunez hurt .

      • Kramerica

        Nope, expected the same. Big difference between hope and expectation. Tough to win ballgames when Span, Pagan and Conor are infesting the lineup.

    • HaakAway

      I found an error on the MLB.com site below the Giants it says,
      “Line-up suibject to change”

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Going off the rails on the crazy train!!! Aye aye aye…

    Back by unpopular demand, Awesome Fake Trades.

    Forget trading Belt, he’s the best hitter on the team (stats don’t lie). Buster Posey is the problem (he’s just not clutch) and as Bill Walsh says, it’s better to trade your stars before they become duds.

    And where are we trading Buster to???

    Why Atlanta of course! They have arguably the best farm system in MLB, so just pick your five favorite prospects (mostly young pitching at top of their farm). And Atlanta is going to love rolling out Posey in their new stadium with him, Freeman, and Kemp in the middle of the lineup.

    We are traveling at ludicrous speed…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0

    oh, and per the Belt trade, yeah, you’re probably right, they need to kick down Sean Reid-Foley and Rowdy Tellez to sweeten the deal.

    • Matthew

      You must be bored

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Just working at some mind numbing stuff. Taking a break.

        One break, coming up!

        Ok, back to work. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Catch you later?

        • The Oracle

          That explains it then. The comment did seem to be the product of a mind that’s been numbed.

    • Peter Johnson

      Do the Giants have to eat half of his salary, that’s a pretty steep salary for Atlanta ,have they ever paid a player over 20 million a year .

      • Peter Johnson

        22,177,777 a year is what Posey will make from , 2017 through 2021, with a club option of 22,000,000 for 2022, with a 3,000,000 buyout, but Buster does have a full no trade clause ,so not happening .

    • Remember our Mitch Moreland – Justin Smoak and Justin Morneau days.

    • The Giants do that only if Buster requests a trade….

  • Like Pagan or not, he’s not checked out because he wants to play next year. He can take his WS experience to Houston or Seattle. But he’s not mailing it in. He’s just going to have to play in the A.L. Granted we could use a better defense in LF, but Pagan will give it a 100% at the plate, good or bad, there is a DH position for him somewhere.

    • He could play LF in a dinky AL Park like Houston, He runs to well to not be in somebodys lineup in 17.

      • Yep. I think Houston would be a good fit for him and the Astros.

        • Eric Ritz

          Houston has a 5 mil option on Evan Gattis, who is a lefty crusher, but I imagine he’d still hit RHP better than Pagan.

          • Matthew

            You may have found the only LF worse than Pagan on defense…

          • Eric Ritz

            Gattis hasn’t played LF at all this year, still seeing some time at catcher. And Pagan isn’t even close to the worst defense LF in MLB. That’s more a testament to the type of players who wind up in LF, but still. Go to a Twins blog and read what their fans have to say about Robbie Grossman. Or shoot, watch current Melky. Baltimore is also a truly amazing outfield, especially when Trumbo is in RF. Kim in LF and Trumbo in RF. Us Giants fans don’t know true pain.

    • Peter Johnson

      No way, he does not have DH numbers, not even close .

    • Eric Ritz

      Pagan is sporting a 99 wRC+ this year, a year removed from putting up 79. What’s a fair number for next year? 90? Let’s say he stays healthier without playing D as much, so he performs to his career level of 102. Only the White Sox and Rangers got less than a 102 wRC+ out of their DH this past year. The Rangers played the husk of Prince Fielder there much of this year, next year they’ll likely promote Joey Gallo instead of spend money on a guy like Pagan. The White Sox will likely stick with Avisail Garcia, who is 25, will likely make less than 4 mil next year, and will likely hit around 90 wRC+ while also being somewhat able to play RF (but not well). I’m not sure what AL team would have room for Pagan as a bat only player.

    • The Oracle

      Who is this Pagan you’re talking about? It would be ironic if the Giants signed him to replace the frequently giving less than 100% Angel Pagan.

    • paul in p.v.

      Who is care, Joe.

  • Peter Johnson

    Adam Duvall another extra base hit, a double this time, and scored , but Dan Straily is pitching bad, looks like Giants need to win tonight !

  • Warning: Time to prepare for Murphy’s Law tonight. I am of the opinion that Cueto’s groin is gonna give him issues in the eventual 58 degree weather of the park….

    PPPPP – Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Planning (Bobby Knight)

    • PPPPPPPP – Piss Poor Preperation Practices Produce Piss Poor Performances
      (unknown)

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      beauty!

  • 22’sSweetSwing
  • I think as a result of the post AS break implosion, the Giants don’t know how to handle it. Uncharted waters they are in.
    #mutinyonthegoodshiplolipop

    • Ham & Egging It

      Right you are, Master Joe. May the force be with you.

  • It’s raining in St. Louis. I’m guessing a rain delay is imminent.

  • Sgbssfg

    Bum must be in a good mood. According to Baggs, he has hit one to the base of the coke bottle and one in the player’s parking lot. Then again, not sure if anyone is worried about the status of their vehicle.

    • paul in p.v.

      I’m in a sad mood – thinking about Monday and no more baseball (that I care about).

      (There. Reverse jinx invoked.)

  • Bapah

    Somebody mentioned a rift in the clubhouse? What’s this talk all about?
    What’s it based on is my question.

    • channelclemente

      Hysteria.

    • I did. It’s based on their performance. We’ll see if it’s resolved tonight. I would like to think they can work it out.

      • Bapah

        Huh?

        • Bapah

          I’m sorry, is this an attempt at humor?

    • Michael Scott

      It was Mudbug Joe. Never happened.Actually he said there was a “riff” in the clubhouse. I love it here.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Was listening to KMOX – that’s torturous.

    They were drooling on Duvall – “good player – bet the Giants wish they had him, boy do they need help at the plate”.

    Cards 3, Reds 1 – Duval scored only Reds run after double – what a stud muffin!

    • channelclemente

      He may turn into a pretty decent ballplayer, given time to learn how adjust. He has a clue. I’m curious what makes people think he would ever have developed in the Giants system?

      • Matthew

        Many are just angry, and need to blame. They see what he does with a wide berth to develop on a last place team and think it would have replicated here…forgetting everything they know about the Giants methods

        • channelclemente

          I suppose. I just am somewhat repelled by the blame psychology. From personal experience, sometimes shit just happens. That’s the nature of a probabilistic universe in which we fool ourselves into believing we have significant control of much beyond our own behavior.

          • Matthew

            And baseball is such a pure representation of that randomness

          • channelclemente

            What makes me chuckle is the Giants ’12’ runs and then last night ‘0’ runs. You’d think a 5RBI/2HR night would cause the same kind of skepticism as to what will follow for young Duvall. SMH. People have quite an capacity for finding greater meaning out of random chaos.

      • Peter Johnson

        His quote after his 5 RBI ,2 HR night vs Cards, when asked if he was surprised to get to 100 RBI and 33 HRs, was,” I’ve always driven runs and hit Homeruns. It’s just I never had the opportunity to do it at this level , and it is gratifying to show people I could do it at this level.” In another words IN YOUR FACE Giants, and people like Channelclemente, that did not think I could do it !

        • channelclemente

          Whatever.

          • Peter Johnson

            That quote was his ,except the last part, that was me .

          • Moooooooooose

            No kidding?

        • Matthew

          Dude, you can’t read. That’s not what he said. I don’t want to be mean to you, but are you just incapable of reading comprehension?

          • Peter Johnson

            The quote was from the AP story of that game, except the last part . He is very confident in his ability to hit a baseball .

          • Matthew

            The last part is where you f^#ked up entirely, Mensa.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Cincinnati is just what the doctor ordered for his career. You know, and I know that it wasn’t happening in SF. The ship had sailed for him here and what a beautiful boat awaited him close to his Louisville home.

        We could do over under on his 2017 #’s though – .240 avg, .300 obp, 25 HRs …

        • Eric Ritz

          .240/.290, 30 HR

    • RJ

      Yeah, and he gave it right back with a Paganesque play in LF. If we are mourning the loss of AD, well, playoffs are not deserved. ( I know you are being sarcastic SFB, enjoy your provocative posts very much)

      • Peter Johnson

        He just drove in another run his 103rd of the season to make it a 1 run game with a single .

      • The Oracle

        No way could the Giants have used Duvall’s 33 HRs and 105 RBIs. Pagan has been far more valuable. The trade was definitely worth it. How far would the Giants have gone in the post season in 2015 without Leake?

        • channelclemente

          LOL. Did you look at Duvall’s 2015 performance.

          • The Oracle

            I’m talking about this season. as far as 2015 goes, it’s pretty tough for any young hitter to do anything with the Giants with Bochy in charge.

          • channelclemente

            That’s called an oblique obfuscation in a court room. I don’t think anyone, for years, has any illusions about your opinion of Bochy.

          • Matthew

            He’d rather cherry pick his point and chisel it in marble, leaving out what everyone has commented about it in the past. He likes the one man pack label

          • paul in p.v.

            I vote with T.O. on this one. I don’t care what Pagan is hitting, he bites it as a LFer.

          • Matthew

            Paul, most of us agree that the trade didn’t work out. Most people liked it at the time. The other point us Duvall wouldn’t have gotten the opportunity here. What is it that folks don’t see about those points we keep making? No one…no one is saying it was a good trade in retrospect

          • channelclemente

            He is easily the superior of Duvall, but he’s clearly no Alex Gordon.

  • Matthew

    Let’s all make note of an earlier note by Clutch Up:

    Be prepared for the likelihood that Johnny Baseball isn’t totally over his crab-biter groin issue. I hope it doesn’t resurface, but I’ll cringe every pitch. Those don’t go away in less than two weeks, typically

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Yeah, not real good folks. But it is do or die time.

  • Sgbssfg

    Happy Birthday Tim Flannery! Now go out and win one for the flan man!

  • Bapah

    That’s one.

    • Bapah

      I’m tabulating balls through the 5 and 5.5 hole.