Giants Fall to Padres, 4-3 as Dodgers Clinch NL West, Postseason Hopes Evaporating…

by
GreekGiant

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The National League West was not supposed to end like this. The Giants had an 8 game lead over the Dodgers and designs on a 100-win season… C’est la vie. That’s pretty much all I can think to say after another disheartening loss to the San Diego Padres. It’s ok to be greedy sports fans but your greed and lust for championship after championship guarantees you nothing.

This Giants team appears to be going down for the count after the Mets slaughtered the Phillies earlier today putting the Giants 1 game back for the top Wildcard spot. It has come to this: The Giants cannot be expected to win a series against a team 24 games under 500.

The afternoon was a series of semi-painful failures. Ty Blach could not find the strike zone and lasted only 3 innings allowing 2 runs when he could easily have allowed twice that many. He threw 280 pitches in the first inning and another 246 in the second. In a clear case of the Major League-debut jitters the rookie lefty could not provide the spark the Giants needed.

After the Padres went ahead 1-0 Buster Posey and company surged ahead to take a 3-1 lead in the top of the third. Unfortunately, the gravitational pull of their second-half death marched pulled them back into the black hole of broken hearts. The bullpen could not hold the lead, the bats never again threatened. To make matters worse, Eduardo Nunez had to leave the game after pulling his hamstring. Oh, did I tell you the Dodgers clinched on a walk-off home run in extra innings in Vin Scully’s final game at Dodger Stadium? The only way things could be worse would be if the Dodgers beat the Giants in that game. Mercifully, we did not have to experience the brutal, mathematical end of our division championship hopes first-hand.

A moment will come when one has to question the heart in this team. Where is the fight? Where is the ability to pile on or come from behind late in a game? Where is the talent that was 25 games over .500 in the first half? What has happened to our team?

  • The Oracle

    It’s kind of hard for me to get enthused about the Giants in the post season, since I don’t think they deserve to be there. Maybe they’ll close like winners.

    • DrLefty

      As I said on the flip side, I didn’t feel this way about the 2014 team, who actually had some reasonable excuses for their second-half slide and who showed some signs of life in the last five weeks or so, finishing with 88 wins.

      This team has shown…nothing. At this rate they’ll have to play .500 ball, something they haven’t done in over two months, to even get to 85 wins, one more than last year’s arguably overachieving team. They even got eliminated from the division race four days earlier than last year.

      It’s embarrassing, it’s disappointing, but most of all it’s just bewildering. Maybe they were never destined to be the 100+ win team that they were projected for at the All-Star Break, but 90+ should have been quite doable, and the division was winnable.

      • Efrain

        see my points in previous post, really not bewildering at all.

  • Moooooooooose
  • Matthew

    Isn’t it an odd feeling that, as we sit here on September 26th, we are in a Wild Card spot, but since mid-July they are the absolute worst version of Giants baseball in such a long time, I’m searching for comparisons…

    Some folks are holding out hope. I’m a huge fan, and yet I’ve never been less enthusiastic about potential post season….I admit being jaded by the 3 recent titles ( had we not won them, I’d be freaking out right now at this seemingly lost chance). I still care for these guys, but ….they look horrible.

    Everyone is looking for the answer. It appears there are many, many reasons. Through the title years, they were better than their collective talent would justify. This year, it’s the opposite. No, they weren’t the perfect roster by any stretch. But the worst in the majors for 1/2 a season? Absurd.

    This team stinks. That place stinks. There are some root issues that are desperately dysfunctional. There is no defense of the way this has unfolded. It’s a dramatic organizational failure top to bottom.

    Chef will hate this. But, it’s the stark truth, and we see it around 5 games a week.

    • Moooooooooose

      What’s worse, that the team has been so awful, or that it’s so hard to figure out who to blame?

      • Matthew

        Am I that bad?

        • Moooooooooose

          Ha! You’re not the only one who feels the way you do. I’m just asking the question.

          • Moooooooooose

            See?

          • Matthew

            I’m shocked, Moooooose. I am so confused by this. I certainly wish I knew the answers. When you go down the list of every one, manager, coaches, players…I look for who has exceeded expectations.

            Cueto

            No one else. None. At least none of importance that I can think of.

          • Efrain

            well one mistake you absolutely made was putting any faith in Belt 😉

          • Moooooooooose

            Not even Greek Giant’s new blog could end the doldrums, but you can’t say it hasn’t exceeded expectations!

          • channelclemente

            TO?

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        When in doubt, find a guy, stick with him, and keep sticking it to him.

        • Matthew

          Hey, Snark Finch! What’s you’re assessment? With depth. Proceed

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Hey cute stuff, give me a few minutes.

          • Matthew

            You got it!

    • crawnik

      Spot on Matthew.

    • Efrain

      funny thing is that no matter how much they stink right now I see them outlasting the Cards this week and having to play the Mets in NYC.

      One game playoff its a whole new season. Could be exciting, Bum on the mound as everyone wants.

      • Matthew

        It’s like a concert with the arena 1/3rd full, and the band finishes, and everyone just leaves after a polite golf clap. Blah.

        • Efrain

          Keep in mind that IF the Giants made the WC and were to win it, they could go into the next series with Cueto (hopefully at 100%) Moore, Shark & Bum. I’ll take that punchers chance, even though they can’t score runs consistently.

          • Michael Scott

            In a 5-game series they will go with just 3 starters, with the 4th in the pen. Right now Moore would be the the fourth guy.
            IMO.

          • DrLefty

            They went with four starters in the NLDS in the previous championship years:

            2010: Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner
            2012: Cain, Bumgarner, Vogelsong, Zito
            2014: Peavy, Hudson, Bumgarner, Vogelsong

            It is possible to come back with your Game 1 starter in Game 4, but it would be on short rest. Mattingly did it three years in a row with Kershaw. Bochy’s never done it, though.

          • Peter Johnson

            Beat me to it, most teams go with 4 starters, unless they are desperate, or have an injury .

          • DrLefty

            Didn’t work out well for Kershaw/Mattingly. Kershaw got them out of the first round in 2013 but ran out of gas in the NLCS and got stomped in Game 6. In 2014, he blew up in both Games 1 and 4. In 2015, he pitched well enough in Game 4, but they didn’t survive Game 5.

          • Peter Johnson

            Every year some team tries it, and they show the stats for pitchers starting on 3 days rest , and they are not very good .

          • Eric Ritz

            Kershaw has tagged as a postseason failure, but his bad starts have almost always been when the team not only pitched him on three days, but tried to make him go long in the game. It’s a horrible idea that’s too tempting because of how amazing he is. Something tells me they won’t be as tempted to do that to him this postseason.

          • Michael Scott

            Well,i missed that but we’re not going to the playoffs anyway- and if they do make it, they get swept . So why take 4? Use the extra seat for a killer Gamer Babe

          • Peter Johnson

            Nope, Giants have always started 4 Pitchers in a 5 game series .

    • Michael Scott

      Leave me out of your endless doom and gloom essays. Thank you very much

      • Matthew

        So, you liked it?! Thank you very much!

        • Michael Scott

          I see your name and more than 2 paragraphs and it’s ” My God, he’s at it again”

          • Matthew

            That is extremely good…I want to use that in appropriate situations!

          • Michael Scott

            I appreciate that you are taking the high road to get to the low road, but you’ll never get there taking that route.But you can be the Pagan of GG’S blog.

    • Agree.

      The team is flat. Not the type of momentum to take into the post season. I’m holding out hope, but not with the confidence of knowing they’ll breath again, but by some miracle something will breath life into them and we’ll be alive again.

      I got my theories. Some are so absurd I won’t say what they are, and some may be so personal I feel they’d cross the line. But one thought is there is a riff (players and coaches) and Boch has failed to address it. There are other thoughts I’ll toss out later, but I don’t want to now.

      One other soft excuse is the coaching staff has been so in charge of everything that when things went into the ditch, there was no take charge player. They all looked to the coaches and Boch, who seemed snake bit with every move he made. I know the players held closed door meetings, but the results remained not good.

      The Giants need to dump the dead weight and live with those decisions. We are not that far off from a tweak or three to get right back in the mix.

      • Moooooooooose

        Lots of teams have gone into the post season stinking up the joint and done great, and lots of other teams have cruised into the post season and been knocked out in the first round.

        It means nothing.

    • Skweezplay55

      Great post. It is so weird that they are still in the running for a playoff spot. Four weeks ago, I still thought this team would “snap out of it” and return to their baseball card numbers and production. Worst in MLB. Have the Giants ever been the worst in MLB for this long?

  • Efrain

    With tonight’s showing looks like Lester is putting his best bid for the Cy Young, has it all, the record, the ERA, the innings and the big plus, a pennant winning team.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Go Cubs. Beat STL.

      • Peter Johnson

        Bullpen choke

        • Peter Johnson

          Luckily still got the lead, hopefully the Good Chapman comes in , not the wild Chapman.

        • Matthew

          Baseball must drive you crazy.

          • Peter Johnson

            It does, because I am rooting for the Giants to have meaningful games all week, so the Cards need to lose tonight, since they play the Reds 4 games starting tomorrow, and I do not trust the Reds to win any of them .

          • earlytimes

            Yeah not liking the Reds 28-49 on the road. However, dirty birds only 33-41 at home this year.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Go Reds

    • DrLefty

      Pennant-winning team doesn’t affect Cy Young outcomes. MVP, yes. But there are many examples of Cy winners on bad teams. Lincecum in 2008, Greinke on the Royals, King Felix, etc.

      I think Lester has a shot, but so does Scherzer, and they may give it to Fernandez, even.

      • Efrain

        maybe……maybe not.

        I still say its looking like Lester.

    • Peter Johnson

      Jinx

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Doing a great job amidst the cluster fuggle, GG.

    You’d think Kelby and Gorkys could have led them to victory today. Or somebody put one over the wall.

    Team needs some juice!

  • cabbie

    This will be an interesting off-season. I feel like in previous years there were very clear priorities and moves that we felt would make the team significantly better. But this upcoming off-season feels different. The bullpen will/should get revamped, so i’d imagine they try to find some outside help for that, but after that, isn’t this basically the same team that will take the field next year, save a new 5th starter (maybe?) and maybe an outfielder? The people who lead this team currently, will be leading the way again in 2017.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      They really opened wallets last winter. What’s left in the coffer? Can they afford closer and LF?

      • cabbie

        I take it they go after a closer. I’d imagine for LF, they do the same thing they’ve been basically doing for almost a decade, and fill it with a hope and a prayer.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          At least some reliable MLB Depth in LF

          • cabbie

            I see Coco Crisp or Daniel Nava in our near future.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Oh God. Maybe a floor of Josh Reddick.

          • Matthew

            “Depth”? Behind who? I say front line in LF

      • DrLefty

        Probably about $25-30 mil. Maybe $35 mil if they bump the payroll up a bit.

    • cabbie

      Also, unlike previous years, there’s no “we get Pence/Posey/some other guy back who was injured most of last year”.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        We get Pence back for more ABs? Better, healthier Panik? Span?

        • cabbie

          I can’t remember- do we know that Panik is not healthy, or is that folks here playing WebMD?

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Holiday Inn Express

    • DrLefty

      I think the fifth starter thing will be handled internally. If they don’t hand it to Cain, they’ll let Suarez, Blach, Beede and others fight it out in spring training. They will still be in better shape than when they came into this year with Peavy and Cain in the 4-5 spots.

      I’m not sure what they’ll do about left field. The only free agent outfielders really worth pursuing probably won’t come here (Cespedes). Maybe a trade? Sign a backup catcher and play Belt out there more, give Mac and Slater some reps? It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

      • cabbie

        Sure would have been nice if other players had gotten a chance to audition a bit more for the role during Pagan’s walk year.

        • DrLefty

          Yes, it would have, but Pagan at least did contribute at the plate. So it wasn’t a total waste.

    • The Oracle

      I think the biggest problem is going to be that Bochy will be back. They need to get younger, they need to take a real look at their own younger players, and Bochy obviously is not the man for that job. I also believe that his performance this season must have damaged the way the players feel about his leadership, which isn’t a good thing going into a new season.

      • Matthew

        Well, the two specific spots that would be the biggest impact are CF and 5th starter, right? I have no doubt that Bruce would give Span all of next year. Cain has squatters rights in the 5th spot in Bruce’s book, too.

      • DrLefty

        I’m not sure what to expect of Bochy going forward. I think he did one of his best jobs managing the Giants in 2015. He benched a veteran (McGehee) for a rookie (Duffy), and that was spectacularly successful. He gave another rookie (Heston) a key role in the rotation, skipping over veterans Petit and Vogelsong to do so. He used rookies Strickland and Osich in key bullpen roles. He let other young guys like Panik, Tomlinson, and the Brandons do their thing. He had no real rotation to speak of, but he took that team a lot further than expected.

        This year has been dreadful–one of his very worst years managing the Giants, IMO. It’s hard to understand why, but here’s one possibility: high expectations. The front office went out and spent a lot of money, and there was more pressure than in 2015, a season I think the front office knowingly punted. So Bochy defaulted to his comfort zone: “our guys,” guys who have “been there.” I haven’t seen him this disastrously locked in since 2011.

  • Doughnut

    Bring in Chapman Maddon….swear he wants nothing to do with the Giants in October

    • cabbie

      I don’t think the Giants want anything to do with October either.

      • Doughnut

        Doesn’t seem like based on the way they are playing. They need to wake the eff up

  • BALDHEADSLIKK

    Arnold Palmer dies today so damn sad today’s been a bad day

  • DrLefty

    Did the Cubs make a horrible mistake throwing all that money at Jason Heyward? He’s hitting .229 with an OPS of .624, which is nearly 140 points lower than his career OPS of .761. Now .761 is a nice player, but $177 million nice? And .624 is pretty abysmal.

    • Matthew

      They seem to have overcome it…..

    • Peter Johnson

      He has been hot lately those numbers were a lot worse a month ago .

    • Yes

    • cabbie

      One year is kind of too soon to tell. Jon Lester had a bit of a bust feel during year 1 too.

    • Eric Ritz

      The hitting is a major concern and just shouldn’t be this bad. But damn is his defense some of the most beautiful fielding I’ve ever seen. He seems so fully in control of his body out there that it’s just stunning how terribly he’s doing at the plate.

    • The Oracle

      Yes.

  • BALDHEADSLIKK

    Something tells me that if the giants made the postseason many of the players would be upset about that. Sounds silly I know but they play like they were just want to go home now.

    • Moooooooooose

      Don’t you be going all TO on us now!

    • Peter Johnson

      No way, they are trying just not good enough .

  • channelclemente

    Did Adam Duvall do a ‘Giant” or did the Giants do a ‘Duvall’? Kindred 1st and 2nd halves for each.

    https://i.imgur.com/UYkfvL2.png

    • Peter Johnson

      Yes, he has been just as bad as the Giants in the 2nd half, hopefully for the Giants sake he has 4 good games left in him .

      • Eleuthero

        I suspect that, like all young players, the league has adjusted to his weaknesses and he hasn’t adjusted to their adjustments.

    • The Oracle

      Over the course of the season, he’s been more valuable than Pagan.

  • Matthew

    Santiago Chapman….

  • banksofthecreeks

    Cubs win 3 – 1

    • Moooooooooose

      Maybe if the Cards were a little more slappy instead of relying on home runs, they would have won that game.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Gimme a team of kelbies, and I will drive that bus to titletown, Wisconsin.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    Half game lead for WC 2!

    What an awful day, although it was still beautiful in many corners.

  • cabbie

    Man, i was looking over the upcoming free agent class for Left Field:
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html

    Yikes. This list of free agents to be is a buffet of mid 30’s vets that Bochy must be salivating over. Rajai Davis is totally starting 130 games for the Giants in 2017.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Ian Desmond?

      • winebaroness27

        He can play cf too right??

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          Learning on the fly. Too bad Kelby can’t translate speed like trea Turner.

    • Eleuthero

      I wonder what’ll it take for the Giants to get over their incurable veteran love. I suspect the answer is NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Can they go out and buy a hot prospect?

        • Eleuthero

          They should certainly have the cash but I doubt that any NL team would let a AAA guy go for money. After all, they want a future too. Hence, our scouts should be looking at other teams undiscovered A and AA players.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            They would scout such players if they had any intent to sell one of their value MLB pieces.

          • Eleuthero

            And therein lies the problem. Pagan’s value on the open market is very small given his age and health history. I don’t see anyone standing in line to get at Span. Our marketable position players are Pence, Belt, Posey, and Crawford. Of those, only Belt strikes me as tradable for a good relief pitcher. We’d be nuts to trade Pence, Posey, or Crawford. Can you see anyone else who’d fetch a decent relief pitcher without losing an excellent position player?

          • Eric Ritz

            If the Giants traded Belt and only got a good relief pitcher back they’d be laughed out of baseball.

          • Eleuthero

            I vociferously disagree with you. Belt is a .271 career hitter with middling power. He’s neither driven in even 80 runs nor had 20 HR’s. On top of all this he averages a strikeout per game which is excusable in a 30 or 40 HR hitter but not a mid to high teens HR hitter. He’s a very good defender which is the best thing I can say about him. If we could truly get an above average reliever for him we should do it. Our bullpen is a big zero and ONE is greater than zero.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            He’s got a special batting eye too. Among the elite at drawing free pass. I’d float him and see what offers are out there with an eye towards getting posey away from dish for 80 games.

          • Eleuthero

            My thinking exactly. If Buster catches 130 games a year he could be done in a few years. I think THIS year is a “Buster is worn out” year. Belt has many attributes that make him enticing to the market. No way I’d put Posey, Craw, or Pence on the market.

          • The Oracle

            He should get a complete physical then. Molina is five years older than Posey, has caught over twice as many games, and his offensive production in 2016 has been close to Posey’s.

          • Eleuthero

            True but that injury Buster sustained in 2011 was extremely severe. It probably shortened his career by five years. I don’t believe Molina has ever sustained anything like it.

          • Eric Ritz

            Disagree all you want, but if they traded him and only got a “good” relief pitcher, it would be a terrible trade. Hitters with an .800+ OPS who can excellently defend their position don’t grow on trees. Who would move to first in this scenario? Whoever it would be, wouldn’t hit as well as Belt. But at least SF would have a “good” reliever for 60 innings!

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            I realize this is just crazy speculative talk and that Belt will be the 1B and Posey the C for 120 games next year, but imagine Posey playing 80 games at 1B and a guy like Edwin Encarnacion playing 80 at first and 60 in LF and more at DH. Down the ladder could peg guys like Brandon Moss or Mitch Moreland.

            What would a guy like Belt return? Perhaps an MLB ready catching prospect, center field prospect, and an additional arm or two – in short, an infusion of young talent.

            Or guys from the farm get some reps at 1B: Slater. Arroyo, Shaw.

            Or Posey keeps catching, wearing down with diminished power production, while Belt does his fine job of elite defense and elite walk rate, while hitting 15-18 HRs and driving in 70-80 runs.

          • DrLefty

            The Giants’ biggest problem in the second half has been the lack of offense. Trading the guy who been arguably their top offensive player this year for prospects makes the team worse, not better. I get that your argument is that Posey will magically become a monster if he catches less, but unless Posey turns into Miguel Cabrera, his incremental improvement won’t compensate for the loss of another key hitter. Good free agent sluggers won’t come here–they never do.

            I don’t have a magic formula for how to improve the Giants’ offense. They will have a different LF, but Pagan’s been at least league average this year, so that may not be an upgrade (not talking defense, just offense). Basically, they need guys they’re already counting on like Pence, Span, and Panik to be better. Hopefully whatever ails Posey (wrist? Back?) heals over the offseason and he bounces back. I’d love to see them go after someone like Prado or Desmond, but they probably won’t.

          • The Oracle

            You could also say he’s the team leader in doubles, home runs, extra base hits, walks, OBP, SLG and OPS. You could say that he ranks among the league leaders in many of those categories. You could say that, but apparently on watching closely enough to realize any of it. You could also try placing a greater degree of blame on the second baseman that’s had an extremely disappointing year at the plate and the supposed Hall of Fame catcher who has fallen far below that standard in 2016.

          • The Oracle

            Pagan is a free agent. He has no trade value because he won’t be Giants’ property once the season ends.

      • The Oracle

        That fact didn’t cure it in 2011, 2013 or 2015.

  • When you’re a top flight elite team like the Giants, opponents study you more. The advanced scouts, tho dwindling because of widespread media and computer technologies, are really putting together intense strategies on how to beat you. They will put more effort into those strategies than maybe say the worse teams. So fine are their assessments that they can pick out the slightest deviation of say perhaps Bums mechanics throwing a FB or a slider. And certainly finding holes in hitters swings. No brainer on who’s arm to run on. The way our pitchers hold runners and who don’t. All that stuff. An entire binder of it. I think the Giants have been strategized to a greater extent than other teams. Not to say that’s an excuse but a reason good enough for a dozen or two losses. The data out there is immense as we all know. Smart people analyze and put it together and hope it works. I think the Giants have been the recipients of a little more than the norm of that kind of planning.

    Our college coach always would scout us and figure out how our opponents could beat us. He would say that it was important to know that so he didn’t get outfoxed in the chess game. It was up to the players to play but he did a good job of putting the right pieces in the right places at the right times. Point is, he knew the weaknesses and prepared well to overcome those. He also had a real good handle on the teams we played too.

    • Eleuthero

      Honestly, I don’t think we’re the object of much scrutiny any more. Since the days when we WERE scrutinized we’ve lost all semblance of a bullpen and have a team full of singles hitters who can’t seem to hit with RISP. Who would these opponents study? Bum? Johnny? That’s all I can think of.

      • Since 2014 and 15 also

        • Eleuthero

          I think a lot of teams will rationalize that we lucked into WC #2 and just got hot on the back of Bum at just the right time. Four years without winning the Division is unlikely to impress other NL teams to emulate us. And let’s face it … 2014 was all about Bum who figured in an incredible SIX victories in the playoffs out of 12 total victories. Nothing to analyze there … we had Superman.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      You may be on it. Too predictable. It’s been noted many a time to throw off speed early in count to foil fastball hitting lineup. Otherwise can pretty much challenge hitters outer half with impunity.

    • Bingo

  • Eleuthero

    I missed the game from the 6th inning on but it’s the same one-note symphony i.e., we can’t seem to score after the 4th inning these days. Indeed, our pattern is to score early and then get one or two singles for the rest of the game. I wonder if anyone has heard news about Cueto? Will he miss his last start?? Just when you were alarmed that the cheap suit had 10 loose threads you noticed that it has 50 loose threads. Who ISN’T hurt?

    • Peter Johnson

      Today was his start day, so yes Cueto will miss at least 1 start, Thursday is the target for his next start, if he is healthy enough to pitch .

      • Eleuthero

        The worrisome thing is that groins are notoriously slow healing muscles. Hard to imagine even a strain being 100% in less than two weeks.

  • Odd how the day the Dodgers clinch the effin division the Giants happen to be 8 games back.

  • Matthew

    I just watched more touching remembrances of Jose Fernandez.

    That is such a sad story. He was a young star. He meant so much to his community.

    It’s not important to me the details. I’m just grieving for the loss.

    • DrLefty

      Heartbreaking. This is one we’ll remember a long time because of how young he was and how amazingly talented and special he’d already shown himself to be.

      Here’s just one stat I read. Of the top 30 pitchers in major league history in fielding independent pitching (FIP), 29 were from the Dead Ball Era. The other was Jose Fernandez.

      • DrLefty

        Here’s a sad irony. Fernandez last pitched on Tuesday. Today would have been his regular start day, but they pushed him back a day to get another guy back in the rotation. (They also were trying not to push Fernandez too hard with it being his first full year back from TJ and the Marlins out of the playoff race.)

        Had he been starting today, I highly doubt he would have been out high-speed boating at 3 a.m., and he’d still be alive.

    • wait til you hear Ken Walls their broadcasters interview on KNBR.

    • Michael Scott

      As we know,there were others who were died last night.They were not star athletes,but they were not less important than than

      • Eleuthero

        Why do the vast majority of posts feel like SCOLDINGS? Seriously, man, you’ve got a serious predilection for reminding people of the obvious. Do you seriously think that if someone on this blog had a relative die they’d give a damn about Jose Fernandez? Fernandez death was tragic especially at the outset of a promising career. End of story. How’s it feel like when someone dogs YOU?

        • Michael Scott

          The press has so often neglected to even mention those who died along with or at the hands of an athlete. Years later many people didn’t know that Donnie Moore beat the hell out of his wive, and left her for dead before he killed himself.
          Oscar Taveras died in car wreck and players wore patches to honr the memory of the man who was shit faced at the wheel killng his girl friend.
          BTW,I didn’t even see your post- I was editing mine because it posted before I was done.

        • Michael Scott

          i wasn’t talking to you, anyway. I’m sure that Mathew had no problem with what I was saying about the importance of every life

          • Eleuthero

            Matthew’s approval/disapproval isn’t relevant here. What’s relevant is that you’re taking a high-handed approach to the whole blog as if we don’t realize the sanctity of ALL life. You make a lot of short posts with “lessons” for us ignorati that, alas, need not be taught to us. The vast majority of people on this blog know that the deaths of the nameless and faceless are every bit as important as Jose Fernandez’ death. However, it’s a baseball blog and not a blog for self-anointed “gurus” teaching us the value of life or death so why don’t you take your podium elsewhere.

          • Michael Scott

            Actually if you read the comments there was very little mention at all about the others who perished last night. Yes, this is a baseball blog but we discuss many other issues- food,.family, heath ,etc. all of us sometimes need to be reminded that baseball is amusement.Your posts of late have forgotten that You really do have interesting and informative comments about the business of baseball, but really,take your own advice and lighten up.Now,if you don’t want to be amiable to each other from now on, maybe we should use the block option

          • Eleuthero

            Michael, I stated long ago that professional sports is the entertainment industry. I said it long before I saw any comment from you about it. Why do you pick on ME because, frankly, everybody makes pretend that the Giants fate has this vast influence on our lives. Whatever life problems we do or don’t have won’t be affected one iota by the Giants making or not making the playoffs. I stated it as MY philosophy about sports but I didn’t preach to people that it should be THEIR philosophy. That’s their business. Maybe we’re on the same page and don’t even know it.

          • Michael Scott

            Thanks for the cordial comment, I appreciate it. I don’t have a particular philosophy about sports in general and baseball in particular , I’ve just loved this game for over 6 decades- because I like the ambiance of the game, even more so now.

          • totalfan62

            I think Matthew did have a problem with what you said, as do many of us.

            This contrarian, grumpy old man suit you put on far too often of late? Tired and old. Stop already.

          • Michael Scott

            If you really read all of what I said and still had problem with it- that’s your problem,not mine.
            I don’t wear a suit,BTW. It’s Donald Duck boxer shorts and an old bowling shirt from Ed’s Bait shop- my dress up outfit.

      • Matthew

        I was totally unaware. Thanks.

        What’s your deal?

        • Michael Scott

          if you read the rest of my comments- I was trying to edit this one when someone saw this unfinished one and went off the rails.I ended up not even realizing that what you are responding to was still unfinished.
          But the bottom line on this is what i was getting to has been proven over and over-even just yesterday- far too many people really don’t get it . Fernandez’s death was tragic and noteworthy and as baseball fans we obviously take this hard but on the grander scale his celebrity was not what made this a tragedy-it was because he died in a needless accident, Young or old, a steelworker or a baseball star-it matters not.
          As I said earlier, sometimes we all need to be reminded of those things that really matter. If anyone here has a problem with the totality of what I have posted about this, that’s on them.If one wants to think of this as a “scolding”,so be it.

          .

          • Matthew

            I appreciate the message..I really do.

            I may read things you don’t mean. You may write in a way you don’t mean. It’s impossible for my heart to handle the grief and sympathy needed for every death that occurs…what it does have size for is grieving the stories I hear about people I “know” through whatever exposure it is.

            I’ll read an obituary, and if I’m somehow connected, it hits me harder. I’m of the age that classmates I grew up with pass away on occasion. It’s a geometric experience these times.

            What hit me specific to Jose is that I have watched this joyful young man grow before my eyes…and learned the back stories of his impact. I could understand, appreciate, relate.

            Those others are as worthy of the grief. I did pause. Fair or not, Jose’s story is one opi know, so his death touched me more deeply

  • livfreerdi

    “A clear case of MLB debut jitters” … that Giants opponents rarely seem to have. Why is that?

    • DrLefty

      Most of them don’t make their debuts in absolute must-win games for their teams in the last week of the season? That would make ME jittery.

      Blach left with a 3-2 lead. It was too bad he couldn’t eat more innings, but he wasn’t going to throw many more pitches, having gone three innings just on Wednesday.

    • He deserved a start but for this start he was thrown under the bus

      • Michael Scott

        How is that?

  • No CY for Bum

    Imo Lester @ 19-4

    • Eleuthero

      Yeah, 19-4 is all you need to say and it has Cy written all over it, alas. Bum will always be a top tier pitcher but, realistically, he’s a consistent high 2 ERA pitcher and the Cy winner is always going to be the guy(s) in the low 2’s.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Hendricks?

      • 2holehitting

        He is a high 2 ERA in pitchers park. That puts him low 3’s.

    • Skweezplay55

      Lester will fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the playoffs.

  • pacman68

    This has been an awful season. The Dodgers win the division again. But with that said. Get in the playoffs and anything can happen.

    • At least they didn’t win it at AT&T and avoided trashing the visitors clubhouse. Those celebrations can destroy a carpet and you might as well kiss the furniture good bye.

      • Moooooooooose

        And Heaven help you if you have a swimming pool!

    • dgg

      Thanks, pac.

  • 2holehitting

    In the second half the Giants have won a total of 3 series of 20. They have split 4 series and lost 13. I have never seen a team leading witht he best record, drop 16 games in their division standings before from up 8 to down 8. They have played pathetic ball.

    • DrLefty

      Whoa, really? Hadn’t noticed at all. I thought everything was great.

      • Moooooooooose

        And all this time I thought 2hole didn’t know anything!

    • HaakAway

      A re-match with YourCubs™ would be fun to watch wouldn’t it?
      The Cubs seemed to have brought out the best in the Giants when they were there with all four games being one-run decisions. You don’t want to just kick the Cards or Mets to the curb do you? Much more meaning in knocking out a Three Time WS Team to say, “There is a new sheriff in town.”

      • 2holehitting

        As I have have stated many times, I do not want the Giants in the playoffs. Their starting pitching matches with the best of teams.

        • dgg

          Well, 2hh, this is confusing. Do you plow circles in your fields?

      • 2holehitting

        Having been to the series that Will read the catcher lips, I hated the series then and I would dislike the series again.

    • dgg

      Okay, so you’re a Cubs fan. How come you’re here? How come you’re not happy? What’s your point?

      • 2holehitting

        Wow, such attack dogs, just pointing out some Giant stats. You need to win series to win the division. It is telling the Giants are winning 15% of their series in the second half. That is how bad they are that they can not even win series from the dredges of baseball.

        • dgg

          You do know, 2hh, that we already know these stats.

        • Eric Ritz

          Literally nothing she said sounded like an attack.

  • cynic

    At this point I don’t care about the playoffs (to quote Jim Mora: ‘playoffs?!’). I just dont like the way the Giants are playing or their overall lack of fire, things I used to love about them. What the hell is going on? I thought these guys were a prideful bunch. Are they dysfunctional? Are they hurt? Are they old and tired?

  • HaakAway

    Something to Ease Our Pain as we wait on an Off-Day to make the final push.
    22’sSweetSwing is crunching numbers but I spotted some MyGuy™ highlights:
    Top Five Minor League Position Players:
    Dylan Davis (26 HR’s)… wRC+ of 132 for an improvement of 86%
    Steven Duggar … wRC+ of 131 (advanced three levels) for an improvement of 83%
    Tyler Horan … wRC+ of 120 for a 65% improvement
    Austin Slater … wRC+ of 137 for a 58% improvement
    Jalen Miller … wRC+ of 70 (but he advanced two levels) for an improvement of 52%

    • crawnik

      In your opinion Haak, which one of these would be on the fast track to the majors?

      • HaakAway

        Slater is the 23 y. o. playing at AAA so he has the best chance of making the MLB team next year. He is an OF/2B guy so has an edge.

        Duggar is the Rising Star; 22 y. o. who finished at AA hitting .321 in that pitcher’s league. He also had 15 SB and threw out 13 runners this year. My hopes are that he keeps this up at Sac. next year and gets called up to be that CFLeadOffGuy™ that the Giants need.

        • crawnik

          Giants need to start getting young in the outfield. I would definitely move Span to LF next year and have either Gorkys (if Giants re-sign him), Blanco ir Duggar in CF, with the one of the others being the 4th OF.

          • The Oracle

            Blanco isn’t young and is coming off his worst season. He’s also a free agent. Hernandez’s best case scenario is probably becoming a player like Blanco, but even that’s a long shot.

          • HaakAway

            Right… Gorkys might be the “New Blanco” but both Gregor and Angel are gone in 2017.

          • crawnik

            I would miss Blanco if he leaves via FA. Indeed, he is nothing more than a 4th OF.

          • HaakAway

            He gets a place on the “Raising the Flag” group statue to these World Series winners.
            Fourth OF is Essential and that was Gregor; without him the Giants fall short.

          • Eric Ritz

            What’s crazy is for being the 4th outfielder, he played almost as much as Pagan over their time here, and arguably contributed more value. Love Gregor.

          • Michael Scott

            Yes, we’ve really had 4 regular OFers. Even though it’s been late in coming, it’s nice that Gregor has won over most fans.

          • crawnik

            I remember the time me and my wife went to 2012 Spring Training, and Arias and Blanco were in the game, and we both predicted those 2 would make the Opening Day roster. They did. I really like Blanco’s hustle and “can do” attitude. Never complains.

          • HaakAway

            Thanks for the story. There you go.
            Arias is gone after an attempted comeback with the D-Backs. Blanco, if he is healthy, may have a chance as a plus-defensive OF and LHH.

          • HaakAway

            I think Span is hurt right now and returns next year slightly better.
            Duggar jumping to MLB from AA s not unprecedented (Duffy) but only if he has a great ST and the Giants do not go get a FA OF.

  • crawnik

    Good morning all. You know something? Aside from the sudden death of Jose Fernandez, the passing of Arnold Palmer, and the many passings of celebrities and musicians this past year, 2016 has just plain sucked. The Warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals, the Sharks lost the Stanley Cup Finals to a much more talented Pittsburgh team, the 49ers (for you Niners fans), are in the bottom 5 of the NFL. After a promising first half that gave them the best record in baseball, the Giants must have contracted some type of disease that has them literally on playoff life support. Yes, make it in and anything is possible and breathe some life in this fan base, or die a slow death these last 6 games and we can be done with this bizarre year that is 2016, and start talking an early Hot Stove primer.

    • CaptBrewster

      Oh, by the way… Have a nice day!

      • crawnik

        I’ll keep that in mind Captain.

  • CaptBrewster

    “There is no hope. There is only decay”

    • BALDHEADSLIKK

      My dentist said something similiar about my wisdom tooth around 20 yrs ago lol.

  • BALDHEADSLIKK

    Life is so immeasurable that it cannot be put it into words. As ive grown older in life i have come to realize whats important to me and what isn’t. Life is to damn short to be upset with a comment from someone here on this blog although from time to time i’ll slip up before i catch myself lol.But i think of all the friends that i’ve lost over the years to gun violence in the streets yet i’am still here breathing and healthy. Perhaps baseball saved me perhaps not but looking at the death of Jose Fernandez reminds me to be joyful each and everyday and to not take life so seriously as i once did . I was introduced to baseball at a very young age in the early 70s and played it most of my life. Baseball was always my favorite sport although the other kids in my neighborhood liked football and basketball my love for baseball made me stand out somewhat. In a small way baseball saved my life because although i ran with the wrong cats back in the day i always played on some form of a baseball team from LL to HS to JC ball. My friends use to get pissed at me growing up because i’d have Hank Greenwald blasting through my car speakers instead of listening to the latest R&B track. Yep life is short and i’d like to say thanks to the fine sport of baseball for playing a huge part in my upbringing.

    Mario

    • Thank You Slikk. Great post.

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thank you

        • gamervixen

          truths. thanks for sharing.

          • BALDHEADSLIKK

            You Welcome

    • Moooooooooose

      I’m with Greek. Great post, Baldy!

      • dgg

        Sometimes I’ve called him Baldy and sometimes I’ve called him Slikk. Which does he prefer?

        • BALDHEADSLIKK

          You can call me whatever you want just don’t call me late for dinner!

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thank you sir .

    • dgg

      Wow, Slikk. I think this is the most you’ve ever shared about yourself. I also think this is your longest post ever. It is certainly the POTD, perhaps the POTY (the post of the year). I was feeling somewhat gloomy about the Giants and the awful prospect of Donald Trump and the racism in this country, until I read what you had to say. You put things in a broader, more hopeful perspective. Very well written, very well said. Thanks, Slikk.

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thank dgg

        • dgg

          You’re welcome. It’s very true, Baldy!

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Well deserving of the Featured Comment Trophy – easy POTD !

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thanks

    • crawnik

      Rack him!

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thanks Jim

    • Matthew

      You know how I feel about you, Mo. This was touching, personal, sobering. Isn’t it amazing how most of us have never met yet we are such good friends? Baseball started that….

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Yes its so true sir. Thank you!

    • PerSpeier35

      Nice one Slick, very inspiring. Reminded me, I was waiting for my car at the dealer service shop in Vallejo a couple of months ago and killed some time with another guy who was waiting. We started off with the Giants and sports and eventually he told me basically your story; black guy growing up in SF, ran with the wrong crowd but was determined to make it out and live an honest life and he apparently achieved that goal. Got married and bought his own house in Suisun, worked two jobs in order to do so, very nice result for him. I can’t remember now what or who he said inspired him, I think it was just from within, he did it on his own. Said once in a while he’d find himself back in his old stomping grounds and he’d see his old friends, basically hanging out and going nowhere so he finally had to just cut the cord and sever the ties.

    • Michael Scott

      Very nice stuff, Baldy.

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thank you

    • steve k

      very well put, my friend..

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        Thank u

  • BALDHEADSLIKK

    Nunez has a mild hamstring strain huh? It’s funny because when we first got him i remembering watching him run out a triple and i tell ya he has a beautiful running style reminiscent of #24 imo and i thought to myself this guys gonna pull a hammy because he runs so hard almost violently .

    • cynic

      I also don’t like the way he slides. Just looks very violent. He also slides head first into first which is just asking for trouble (1B is always there unlike other bases). Seems like the kind of guy who will get hurt a lot because of the way he plays.

      • Skweezplay55

        He slides head first into every base. Need Clutch to give him private tutoring on sliding techniques.

        • Eric Ritz

          Or that one play last week where he DIDN’T slide at all into 3B, but went through half the motions before realizing he waited too long, and overran the base. I think I would have pulled something.

          • cynic

            Good call, that play was bad. Was it on Kelly?

          • Michael Scott

            Of course it was.

  • Sgbssfg

    I know this is a baseball blog, but I must comment on the passing of Arnold Palmer. Superlatives are passed out in sports like candy on Halloween. But Arnold Palmer was truly an icon. Thanks to him, 2 generations of golf fans were created. He had talent, style and grace. And he had a good long life. RIP.

    • cynic

      I’ve been reading a lot of articles about him this AM. Seems like he lived a great life – happy and to the fullest.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Tempting to go out and buy a case of Pennzoil in his honor.

      • totalfan62

        Or mix in an Arnold Palmer iced tea/lemonade.

    • Max

      He had me watching as a kid and I didn’t even play the game. Such charisma. But if he wasn’t in contention, I didn’t watch. The tributes have been incredibly moving especially from Jack.

    • dgg

      It’s a baseball blog, but more than that, it’s a people blog!

      • Michael Scott

        Thanks to you, Scout, and Haak for thinking that my thoughts were worth an upvote. For the 226 people who gave a thumbs down, may a storm of locusts decide to make your underwear their home.

        • dgg

          Three young men lost their lives in that accident. Sadly, I can’t remember the other two men’s names. But their lives mattered too.

          • dgg

            I think what Matthew was saying is that the details of the boating accident are insignificant in the larger scope of this terrible loss.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          another up vote to you.

          No matter what everybody says about you, you’re alright.

          • dgg

            Hello Ryan.

    • Watchingsince62

      He was the single most charismatic person I have ever met. I was an inexperienced young radio reporter in Central Florida in the late 70’s trying to cover the Bay Hill Classic. Arnie treated me like I worked for Sports Illustrated. Gracious and helpful. He even recorded a station promo inviting listeners to follow my coverage of the tournament. Having Arnie call you by your first name when you’re a 24 year old goofball was a pretty big deal. He will be missed.

      • goodsam73

        what a sweet story — thanks for sharing with us !

    • goodsam73

      and he did good works and never forgot where he came from — a true gentleman of the game

  • The Oracle

    Kelly is using the excuse that Kaepernick isn’t yet physically ready to be the starter, so my chance to root against him is going to have to wait.

    • cynic

      I feel bad for Kelly. He’s been giving a talentless roster to work with.

      • totalfan62

        From three straight years in the conference championship game, to this:

        SI projects the 49ers record as 3-13.

        ESPN The Magazine NFL power rankings: Niners are #32. That’s last for the casual NFL fans here.

        Yeah. It’s all Harbaugh’s fault.

        • cynic

          If it wasn’t clear before, Harbaugh won in spite of a clueless owner and an arrogant overrated GM. He was never given offensive playmakers and still consistently won games.

          • Eleuthero

            I think you’re absolutely correct. However, I don’t even think Harbaugh could turn this team into anything better than a .500 club. I think SI is right … they’re terrible.

          • cynic

            Agree, there is no doubt the talent has gone down. But again that’s on Baalke. What really gets me is his (and York’s) arrogance. They thought they were smarter than everyone else (thus the hire of Tomsula). Turns out they’re not, and they’re actually dumber than everyone.

          • totalfan62

            My pragmatic wish for our Niners in 2016: play to a 3-13 record and a top three draft position. Baalke finally gets fired–before the season is over–and York hires a solid football mind and gets out of the way.

            If all that happens the 49ers could contend within 2-3 years.

          • Kramerica

            Spot on TF. That is the best case scenario. Get a top pick, get rid of Baalke and get a QB of the future with that pick. Problem is, it all starts at the top, and as long as Jed is at the top this organization’s future will always be extremely tenuous.

          • cynic

            Nothing about York makes me think he’s capable of doing anything as logical as this.

          • goodsam73

            the boy king is too arrogant and his parents aren’t interested in owning a pro-team

          • Eleuthero

            The one year reign of Tomsula is a telling indictment of Baalke and York’s lack of football knowledge. Harbaugh worked a near miracle with this team. Chip Kelly was run out of town in Philly yet somehow York thought he’d suddenly become a miracle worker here. Forty Niners ownership IS the problem and, yes, they’re dumber than everyone.

        • The Oracle

          The 49ers in the 8 seasons pre-Harbaugh: 46-82. The 49ers in Harbaugh’s four seasons: 44-19-1. Since Harbaugh: 6-13. Harbaugh since leaving the 49ers and taking over 5-7 Michigan): 14-3.

      • Eleuthero

        I agree. There are absolutely zero “stars” on this team, especially in the skill positions. None of the running backs or wideouts are above ordinary. On defense only Bowman stands out but the secondary is porous. Kelly will be lucky to reproduce 5-11 and then there will howls of derision for him to resign. They’re a terrible team and it won’t be his fault. As with the 2015 team, they won the first game and gave false hope. The two clobberings they’ve sustained since then are the real 49’ers.

        • Old Man

          2-14

          • Eleuthero

            As with the NL this year, the NFL has so many crummy teams that 5-11 is possible because of the pervasive crappiness of the league. I mean check it out … we crushed the Rams 28-0 making people think we’re the New England Patriots. Unlike the baseball season, I will likely watch ZERO Niners games because they’ll either get killed or you’ll witness two vacant teams play a game with a low level of play. Either way, I’m not interested. I’d rather watch hockey or hoops than that.

  • totalfan62

    Gotta wonder which Marlins team shows up tonight. Overwhelmed with grief, or inspired to honor their fallen teammate.

    • HaakAway

      That is the personal-Giants-bummer in this but I say the Inspired Ichthus win tonight.

    • crawnik

      Giants are hoping for inspired. Heavy hearts nonetheless.

  • totalfan62

    Have we heard anything from the Giants re Nunez’s injury? My gut says he’s done for the year.

    If so, Bochy–please do NOT put Gillaspie out there for six games.

    • Kramerica

      Latest I’ve heard is that he’s going to have an MRI today. Nunez apparently said he doesn’t think it’s serious but it’s terrifying when a guy whose game is built predominantly on speed has a bad wheel. Hamstring strains, even if slight, typically don’t heal up over a day or two. Does KT have the ability to play 3B? Because if not what are the [sad, sad] options other than Adrianza or…gulp…Conor? If Nunez can’t go just throw KT out there and hope for the best.

      • Skweezplay55

        Kelby at 3rd, Crawford coming back at SS, Panik firing up at 2nd, and Belt getting hot at 1st. Yeah, I’m a dreamer.

        • Kramerica

          If KT can handle 3B that’s a no brainer to me. Need his spark, cannot have Conor and Adrianza continue to stifle this offense.

      • totalfan62

        Kelby can and has played third. He’s good at all three IF spots and LF. He’s a singles hitter yes, but we haven’t been getting a lot of singles.

        Kelby should start at least one game in each of the two series this week. Enough with “our guys”–which offends me no end; they’re ALL our guys–go with the guys who are getting hits.

        • Bapah

          KT is more experienced and better on the left side than the right.
          He can play there, NS.

  • channelclemente
  • Max

    Just seems cruel all these injuries at the worst time. They have themselves to blame for their play in the second half, but there also seems to be something at work that’s beyond their control.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Makes one think that busting tail, trying as hard as can be, and ultimately wearing down plays a big part in the late season injury bug.

      A. Bochy could have used a better bench.
      B. Bochy could have better used his bench.
      C. Both A & B
      D. None of the above

      • Max

        Trying hard applies to Crawford’s and perhaps Nunez and Cueto, rather than fatigue. Wearing down would explain their overall play in the 2nd half. Seems certain guys were pushed hard in the first half, but they did use a lot of AAA players.
        I wonder about the off season conditioning. Are they doing enough?

        • dgg

          Or doing too much?

      • dgg

        A, B, and C.

  • Eleuthero

    Mike Scott and I have had a tiff lately but actually we are on the same page in the sense that we both feel that taking a sport too seriously, whatever it is, is misplaced seriousness. I’m as guilty as anyone because when the G’s lose my writings act as if my personal life is affected by the loss. It isn’t. Alas, America is a country of celebrity worshippers and Arnold Palmer’s death is an example of that. Of course Palmer was a great golfer but did he really need the millions of endorsement dollars to advertise for Big Pharma as he’s done for the last several years? Obviously not. There’s something unseemly about all these ex sports stars endorsing products for multinational corporations yet it’s as ubiquitous as new grass in the Springtime.

    • channelclemente

      Pharma advertising on TV is a loathsome practice no matter what.

      • Eleuthero

        I agree. It has a creepy element to it. They always show images of happy families frolicking in the grass while they’re reading off a list of side effects of the drug that is as long as your arm. The use of pro sports stars only makes the practice even more psychologically manipulative and loathsome than it otherwise would be.

        • dgg

          It’s manipulative even when it’s with actors. The commercials are busy creating a visual narrative that is compelling while a soft and/or monotone voice lists the side effects as quickly as possible. It’s unseemly. Everyone should consult the PDR.

          • Eleuthero

            True. The use of any celebs, whether they be from the ball fields or from Hollywood, just adds an element of credibility to the product that probably wouldn’t stand on its own merit without the celeb hype.

          • Matthew

            Marketing tricks in a capitalist society…the way it is.

          • Eleuthero

            Market tricks a.k.a. pervasive lying. Advertising has always been lying but now in a 30 minute TV show you get 19 minutes of the show and 11 minutes of ads. Check out the following table:

            1952 – 13 percent of the time was spent watching commercials (only 4 minutes out of every half hour!)

            1958 – 13 percent

            1961 – 18 percent

            1963 – 20 percent

            1964 – 18 percent

            1967 – 19 percent

            1976 – 17 percent

            1977 – 18 percent

            1981 – 18 percent

            1990 – 22 percent

            1994 – 24 percent

            2001 – 30 percent

            2004 – 30 percent

            2006 – 30 percent

            2007 – 30 percent

            2008 – 32 percent

            2009 – 30 percent

            2010 – 32 percent

            2011 – 31 percent

            2012 – 33 percent

            2013 – 32 percent

            2014 – 30 percent

            NEW!!! 2015 – 30 percent

          • Matthew

            That’s an interesting table…I won’t say it’s wrong, but I do know that 30 minute shows produce 22minutes of content in most cases. But, I don’t take the time to measure.

            Interesting also is that TV advertising is most responsible for the absurd length of baseball games, which I know is a subject you are passionate about.

          • Eleuthero

            I revised the post, Matthew. Check it out. Also, do NOT believe the Nielsen numbers because there are too many categories like “station breaks” and adverts for upcoming shows that they don’t count as ads at all. I’ve used marketingcharts.com frequently and found that their stats match my experience. I’ve actually monitored “Big Bang Theory” and sure enough it’s 19 minutes of show and 11 minutes of ads … 36% on the button.

          • Matthew

            Cool and interesting stuff. Thanks.

            It’s a huge reason why I’ve increased my Netflix viewing…

          • Bapah

            Most people don’t have any idea what that is.

          • dgg

            You’re right. Isn’t that what Google’s for?

        • channelclemente

          It truly amazes me that more money is spent on Vigra or Cialis advertising than on the entirety of anti-infective development. We deserve Trump as a society.

          • dgg

            Okay, cc, you lost me with that last sentence.

          • channelclemente

            The posterboy for Viagra and conspicuous, metastatic narcissism.

          • dgg

            Yeah, but we don’t deserve that.

          • Bapah

            Let’s see how trump does in the vote count before we give a pass to the great unwashed.

          • The Oracle

            How can that possibly amaze you? Sex has always been fairly popular.

          • channelclemente

            TO says, scratching his little head and straightening his monocle.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      You haven’t earned your blog stripes until you’ve had a tiff with Big Country Mike.

      Speaking of baseball tiffs, Brandon Belt and Evan Longoria have about the same OPS ~ .850.

      Who’s would you rather have:
      the guy with 36 HRs and 95 RBIs,
      or the guy with 16 HRs and 77 RBIs, but with 99 BBs?

      Apples and oranges?

      • Eleuthero

        Good question. Personally I’ll take the 36 HR guy. Power hitters tend to go into funks but when they produce they can carry a team for a month. Belt has the funks but not the power. I’d take Longoria any day but that’s just my $0.02.

      • Max

        They need to keep Belt and add a guy who can hit 30 hrs’.

        • Eleuthero

          But how to do that? They can’t afford to lose their decent pitchers. What trade/purchase could possibly just magically add a 30 HR guy to the lineup?

          • Max

            Obviously difficult and therein lies the problem.

        • dgg

          In AT&T Park? Didn’t Crawford slug 25 Home Runs last year? (I’ll have to go look this up.)

          • dgg

            21 Home Runs in 2015.

        • Max

          Or 20

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            like a legit three hitter!

        • channelclemente

          They had ~ one half as many RBI’s the second half than the first. Another 15 HR by any one or even two players isn’t going to fix that. I think this preoccupation with the long ball is a perversion of baseball, and trying to hit HR actually makes an offense less productive.

          • Eleuthero

            I agree with your main point but I think you need a variety of types of hitters to be successful. The 2008 Phillies showed the power of the long ball but how many teams, realistically, can have 4 30+ HR guys in their lineup? However, the Giants really do need at least ONE. Since the Bonds era we’ve had none but what we did have was a helluva bullpen and a great starting staff … the former of which is now a distant memory.

          • channelclemente

            It would have changed nothing the second half. The Giants went from 4th in the NL with an RC+ of 102 in the first half to 12th the second half with an RC+ of 88. That’s just incredible, IMO. They had about 1/2 as many RBI’s. They simply quit hitting the ball. Defense was all that functioned credibly. There are a 1000 different straws to grasp, but more HRs isn’t one.

          • Eleuthero

            I mostly agree with you but you have to admit that an HR is 1 to 4 RBIs in one swing and that would have lifted their second half RBIs by a lot.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            scouting reports? changeups? less bat speed?

          • channelclemente

            My opinion, just looking at what I saw. They tried to squeeze more power in the form of HRs from a team ill suited to produce them. Many of them, particularly the young guys, felt it their obligation to win a game with the single swing of the bat. Even Posey succumbed to the temptation, forgetting, I think, he’s a hitter with power, not a power hitter. That silly from the heals, upper cut swing, just ruined a beautiful stroke. As a result he hit .227 in high leverage situations. In 2014, he hit .367 in those situations and was a power to be reckoned with. Now, sadly, he’s a GIDP looking an out.

          • dgg

            I go back and forth in my mind, cc, between the dearth of hitting and the decline in the bullpen as the primary cause for the Giants dismal second half.

          • channelclemente

            No argument from me, and I think the two are linked. Look at their 2nd half FIP numbers vs the first half. ERA was 3.76, FIP was 3.84 for the season, but ERA(1st) was 3.62 and FIP(1st) was 3.65. The second half was a different story. ERA(2nd) was 4.88 and FIP(2nd) was 4.67. The near identity of FIP and ERA plus the over 1 point rise tells you pitching really declined, and defense played almost no part.

            You mix a decline in pitching of that magnitude and about 1/2 as many RBIs, you get a disaster. I think the decline in hitting just led to way more stress innings and needs for a perfect outing every time, that the staff just lost the edge and confidence the needed. They’re young.

          • dgg

            Excellent analysis, cc. The actual numbers answer Greek Giant’s tough questions about what happened to the Giants energy and heart and relentlessness in the second half of the season.

          • channelclemente

            But the Phillies play in a band box. Witness Aaron Rowands numbers.

          • Kramerica

            Nobody is saying the Giants need to be among the league leaders in HR, but they *have* to hit more. Stats have shown that BA with RISP is fluky and changes season to season. One year the Cards were historic with it and the next year they were terrible. Relying on a “keep the line moving” approach is fine if there are some extra base hits mixed in. But it doesn’t work when you *constantly* have to string three hits together. The Giants are last in MLB in OPS and runs scored in the second half. That’s a product of zero power and BA with RISP abandoning them. The long ball allows some forgiveness in these areas. And it’s not about non-power hitters trying to hit more. It’s about adding some guys with some pop. Posey’s complete power outage in the second half crushed this team out of the three spot. I’d like to see Mac/Parker get a chance in LF next year to possibly produce some cheap power. Also, adding a bench bat with some power (Pedro Alvarez type) would be nice. When the team suffers a collective power outage then it turns into the worst offense in MLB in the second half. People keep harping on 2012 and that they were near the bottom in HR. Well, they lead the league in runs scored on the road and a guy named Pablo hit 3 HR in Game 1 of the WS that changed that series for good. There is a happy medium, but this philosophy that HRs don’t really matter for the Giants is just not true.

          • channelclemente

            I have no problem with hitting more, its just looking for a power/HR hitter is silly, IMO. Picture the change in the season if 1/2 of Posey’s groundball outs to 2B and GIDPs had been line drives. That, in itself, leads to maybe 30-40 more runs. Picture the posterboy for pull hitters, Belt, just taking 1/2 of those high away strikeout pitchs the otherway for gemme hits. Thats another 30 or so RBIs. You add 50 or 100 more RBIs just from those two, you add maybe 10 wins. Fold that in with Casilla’s frequent brainfarts, and you’re talking about 15-20 more wins. That’s the difference between DOA, and running away with the NL West.

          • Eleuthero

            The absence of Pence made an enormous difference on the team this year because he IS that HR guy we need. Nonetheless, the points you made about Belt and Posey’s spray patterns can hardly be disputed.

          • Max

            It’s not a preoccupation. It was a hypothetical response to a question of either or. Nevertheless, adding some pop, whether it was in the everyday lineup or off the bench, wouldn’t hurt their chances.

          • channelclemente

            They don’t need ‘pop’ if that means HR, they need more singles and doubles, IMO. Contact is the issue. They had nearly the worst contact numbers in the NL in the second half.

      • Eric Ritz

        I would take the guy who plays the more valuable position, in this case Longoria. But a closer look shows that Longoria has put up a .496 OPS in high leverage situations vs. Belt’s .750 this season.

        • Eleuthero

          Wow, good research Eric. A .496 OPS in high leverage situations is terrible!

          • Eric Ritz

            Longoria is having a great season, but I have a feeling with those kind of numbers we’d get a lot of daily “great, another Longo home run in a blow out” kinda comments on here.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Adam Duvall first half -esque?

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          speaking of high leverage splits, Belt has an ISO of .074 – but still getting his walks and singles with a few XBH sprinkled in.

          • channelclemente

            Look at the line drives wasted trying to pull every hit. He’s the perfect case of the guy who by abandoning his power stroke to RF and trying to beat the shift, would actually get more doubles to his power alley by driving the opposition out of the shift.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            I guess I don’t see it that way – I see him stubborn to his plate approach of controlling the K-zone. Great eye, but he’s losing some nanoseconds seeing the ball longer and not getting the bat head out to do damage.

          • channelclemente

            Until he can take the outside pitch to LF, he’s an unfulfilled promise. IF he learns that, he’ll win a batting title and become a power in a LU, not just a garnishment. As much as I like Belt, from the position of undeveloped top side, he’s a failure.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            You may be speaking to the frustration of many fans.

          • channelclemente

            LOL, I try to speak to my personal POV, no one else’s

          • Eric Ritz

            .074 is really low, which makes his .242 ISO in medium leverage spots even more of a head scratcher. Different approach? Noise?

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            These are relatively small samples. What’s a typical breakdown – 400 low, 200 med, and 100 high?

          • Eric Ritz

            whoa I don’t think 400 is ever typical in any situation. I don’t think the leverage or “clutchiness” of an at bat would have much influence on how likely an extra base hit would be, whereas something like batting count would have a bigger effect (i.e. more likely to hit something big in 3-1 than in 0-2). League average numbers are .163 in low, .164 in medium, and .152 in high.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            400 as the n, or number of ABs in a season.

            I figure high leverage frequently involves facing the guy out of the pen throwing upper 90’s.

          • Eric Ritz

            ohhhhh haha right right. And yes you are right, late game situations will most regularly come against either a specialty and/or hard throwing reliever, so the ISO would have a reason to be lower. Those are certainly the at bats that are most quantifiably high leverage “in the moment”, as in, we know watching them that our opportunities are running out.

          • Matthew

            Seems like more than a few, grading on the Giants scale

      • Eric Ritz

        You also have to think of who is on base in front of them, in terms of baserunning. Belt has been great with RISP this season, a .285 BA and .840 OPS. With men on base in general he’s even better, .317 BA and a .942 OPS. That’s really really great! So why does he not have the gaudy RBI numbers? He clearly gets plenty of hits with RISP, and his ..200 ISO shows that a lot of those hits are for extra bases. So how are guys not scoring in front of him? Does he hit the ball too hard? Do the runners ahead of him have bad instincts?

        • Eleuthero

          Stats can hide important details. His hitting with RISP is extremely streaky. It would have benefitted the team far more if they were spread evenly over the months but, as we all know, he goes into month-long funks. Also, he strikes out way too much and as the old adage goes, “Only when you put a ball in play can good things happen”.

          • The Oracle

            Which player hasn’t?

        • channelclemente

          You need to split out the 1st half and 2nd half numbers. Belt hit .223 in the 2nd half. It’s the only clear way, IMO, to sort out what was, from what is.

        • DrLefty

          Bad 3B coach. 🙁

      • 610nm

        As to the first sentence, yes I’m aware I’m doing something really wrong, as my total ‘pal’ plus ‘pudding head’ count remains stuck at zero.

        • Bapah

          You just aren’t trying enough to be on the starting lineup.

    • dgg

      “I’m as guilty as anyone because when the G’s lose my writings act as if my personal life is affected by the loss. It isn’t.”

      It’s an interesting question though. How come many of us do take Giants losses so personally? I’m not sure really. Over-identification with the team perhaps?

      • Eleuthero

        Sports is all about make-pretend significance. I think when I howl with indignation after a G’s loss it’s partly a make-pretend emotional binge that I really don’t feel that deeply. I do care when the G’s lose but let’s just say I get over it very quickly. My personal life isn’t changed one iota.

        • dgg

          Mine neither. What helps me find balance and gain perspective is going off-grid for a week to 10 days every other week throughout the baseball season.

          • Bapah

            Maybe I could make a reservation for your cabin in alternating weeks. As long as there is no radio reception, I might bring some tools and work on some projects you might like to have done.

          • dgg

            There is radio reception, and I can’t seem to stay away from listening to games, but I’m usually doing something else so when there’s a loss, at least I’ve accomplished something in my real-life world.

        • Bapah

          Mine sure is. I’m much more sedentary when the Giants win. I’ll watch games more intently, I’ll waste endless hours sitting in front of my computer talking to you fools. I’ll even think about it when i could be interacting more with humans, especially my grandkids.

          The way things are going, I’m sort of looking forward to having little or no interest in the post-season.

          • dgg

            There needs to be a cure for this.

          • Bapah

            There is.
            …and we’re about to witness it.

          • Eleuthero

            That last line really strikes home. Since the 49’ers stink, I, too, am almost looking forward to the sports disinterest that will ensue when the Giants seasons ends.

      • DrLefty

        My personal life (work, family, other leisure) isn’t affected in the slightest by a Giants loss. However, I do feel invested. I’ve spent money (on cable, on going to games in SF and Sacramento and on the road, even gear) and time (watching games, reading about them, talking with you all)–and I guess that does make me feel like I’m entitled to something–the team’s best effort, explanations when something doesn’t make sense. I understand that nobody actually owes me anything for real, but that is how I react emotionally sometimes.

      • Keep’n It Real

        The good thing about baseball is their is so many games, you can be ticked one day…and happy the next…as we’ve seen here in the last few weeks.

        My defining moment as a fan came in my late 20’s, when I’d get beyond ticked when the Raiders would lose. That feeling would stay with me all the way through Wednesday the following week. Then I had an epiphany…there wasn’t a darn thing I could do to impact the results of their games. I’m not suiting up, I’m not executing plays, etc…so I stopped being bummed so much and stopped letting it impact my day-to-day mood.

        This Giants “thing” has been a little different. We have grown accustomed to bullpen excellence and this season has been the opposite. Players that we’ve seen in the biggest of moments have failed in moments against lowly teams. We were all primed for a post-season run going into the season…were blown away by the first half record with so many injuries…and the 2nd half domination we expected with a healthy team has flown south for the winter. These losses aren’t affecting me like explained in the previous paragraph, but I haven’t been so at a loss of words about the Giants in a long. long time. It feels like they lost 100 games at times.

        • 2holehitting

          If it feels like they lost 100 games at times it s because the play since the AS break is a 101 game losing season on a full year. You have just been bashed with 3 months of the 101 loss season

          • Bapah

            OK, that does it. you serve no use here. Blocked 2-holeshitting.

    • Michael Scott

      How many sports events, bowl games, stadiums, etc.are not sponsored or named for a corporation? Hardly any now.My comments here were brought to you by Big Country Mike’s Pig’s Foot and and Cruise Wear Emporium, Inc.

      • Eleuthero

        That’s something I’ve pointed out to my friends down here in Shallow Alto. I loved when stadia were named after people. The Supreme Court added to all this several years ago when they declared that corporations are “people”. Orwell himself couldn’t have dreamed up this scenario.

  • totalfan62

    Guess we won’t be hearing from Wally Pipp anytime soon. While preparing a wonderful celebration for a sporting icon who lived a grand 87 years of life, suddenly a vibrant, joyful young man crashes the party.

    Not to worry, though. Old Wally has a lot of help up there.

  • Keep’n It Real

    Glass half full…Cardinals are 33-41 at home…and they play the Reds and Pirates at home to close things out.

    • Eleuthero

      Dontcha know that the glass is two-thirds empty and the last third is backwash. 🙂 Yes, the Cards have sucked at home but a “law of averages” axiom here might say that they’re way overdue for a home winning streak. I don’t think history is necessarily their epilog in this case.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      And Mike Leake’s turn is coming around again!

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    good talk below on power in the lineup and leverage OPS.

    No denying, you can dream on such a lineup as this,
    especially utilizing Belts’ on-base proclivities.

    So yeah, spend huge on Cespedes and trade Span and Osich to DC for Michael Taylor,
    maybe Span didn’t like the fans in SF either 😉 And in light of no better leadoff alternatives, Nunez’ speed gets the leadoff spot (perhaps similar to Royals and Escobar).

    Nunez 3B
    Belt 1B
    Pence RF
    Cespedes LF
    Posey C
    Crawford SS
    Panik 2B
    Taylor CF
    Pitcher

    Give those Dodgers a run for their money.

    • Keep’n It Real

      6 run leads going into the 9th..then lose because no $$ spent on a closer 🙂

      • Eleuthero

        Word!!

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Strickland can hold a 6 run lead! C’mon now!

        Better make that Strickland, Smith, Law & Okert can piece together 3 outs.

        • Keep’n It Real

          For as many times as Bochy walks to the mound to make switches, he should get a Fitbit sponsorship.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Make it a Law ninth, or a law firm ninth.

          • RobDeer

            Here at Footy & Scout, we will always fight for your rights!!!

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            or chase your ambulance?

          • channelclemente

            F/S for short?

  • channelclemente
    • Bapah

      I can see that you may have given-up too.

      • channelclemente

        No, I still have hope, just no optimism.

        • Bapah

          That sounds real close to what I said.

          • channelclemente

            Not really, I haven’t and I think won’t graduate to basher.

          • Bapah

            Have I? Other than questioning some of Bruces decisions on the lineup lately.

          • channelclemente

            When you’re talking about moot choices among options, it easily turns into bashing. To push Williamson, Parker, or Panik right now as viable options to much of anything offensive requires huge suspension of reality.

          • Bapah

            Well, at least, I haven’t done that yet.

          • channelclemente

            Maybe you’ll get there if you work at it. Think of all the second guessing open to us all over the winter.

          • totalfan62

            I’ve not given up on Panik. Tough year, but the kid’s a good hitter.

        • 2holehitting

          They win their in. They do have a tougher road to tow as far as competition goes than the Cards. The Cards have to win 1 more than the Giants to catch up. You know if Tommy was still managing LA he would go balls out in the final series to stick to SF. I am not so certain that Roberts has the same fire that Lasorda would take into the series.

  • Bapah

    I guess we’ll see if Bochy still has flies in his eyes by who he plays at 3rd tomorrow (given that Nunez sits). If it’s Mr. Happy, then he’s still nuts, he needs to be voted of the island. If it’s KT, maybe there’s hope for him.

    • RobDeer

      I think we all know it’s gonna be Conor tomorrow night.

    • 2holehitting

      KT does not have the arm for third.

      • Bapah

        You’re nuts and talking out your 2-hole.

        • Bapah

          He’s already played on L-side and is actually better over there.

      • The Oracle

        Have you seen Gillaspie throw a baseball?

        • You mean when he slings it over to first?

        • Bapah

          he also uses a RockSolid® RearendHide glove

      • DrLefty

        He absolutely does.

        • totalfan62

          He has a SS arm. Plenty of hose for 3B. Furthermore, either AD or Kelby are better options vs. Gillaspie. They are better defensively and on the bases. And for the record, I’ll go with Kelby.

    • You “have this” pretty bad 🙂 Thought about waiting until it is all over to unleash? If the whomever pitcher is righthanded – it most likely will be CG.

      • Bapah

        No, I don’t think Conor can play adequate defense. Neither do at least three other major league teams. I think KT is better at any position than Gillaspie. I think you’ll find agreement in about a half dozen dugouts and front offices around the league, too.

      • The Oracle

        Bochy is going to need a pretty great last week to overcome his poor body of work in 2016.

    • DrLefty

      I thought it was a good sign that he put in Adrianza and not Gillaspie when Nunez got injured.

      • Bapah

        AD played a lot over there for Pancho. Or whatever his name was.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    An end of season prospect list and I have some Giant beefs which I’ve submitted.

    First of all, Bickford is way overrated here. There is little consensus on what his future holds or what the deal is with his fastball that spent a lot of time in the 90 mph neighborhood – and his secondary pitches don’t rank high. I don’t think the Giants parted ways with a young stud.

    Secondly, no Tyler Beede. He made a strong case to be represented among B+ prospects, or somewhere around 50th overall (it’s not the ranking that matters, it’s the perception of the tools and skills which a player has and what tier that puts him in).

    As for Christian Arroyo, seems about right. He’s lost a little shine with his low HR output. But still a solid B prospect.

    Dodgers graduated two Top 5 overall prospects and have the next wave climbing the ladder (DeLeon, Alvarez, and Bellinger the notables).

    Here she is :

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/9/24/12932956/top-100-prospects-end-of-2016

    • livfreerdi

      I thought 2014 was so important and dramatic in part because that was likely the last chance the Giants would have for a very long time. The Dodgers are loaded, the Giants are not, and with the Dodgers MLB roster already many games better, the Giants need some bad luck to go the Dodgers way

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        This Bellinger kid is the son of pro player and draws comps to Brandon Belt – a great athlete, capable of playing OF as well. The heir at 1B when Gonzo’s time draws to a close. Verdugo is a bit like their Arroyo, although he played AA at -1 year and put up better numbers.
        Pitchers are volatile, but it sure is nice to have arms with tremendous upside in the pipeline and ready to contribute.

    • paul in p.v.

      I saw yesterday that Beede is 8-7 for the season (AA) – and suddenly he’s the next Cain?

      Whereas Blach was 14-7 (AAA) and apparently is ready.

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Woody Blach and a poor man’s Glavine.

        • paul in p.v.

          Exactly – the flame-throwers get all the buzz, while someone who’s actually learned the art of pitching has to wait in line…

        • A poor man’s Glavine is still pretty good!

          • RobDeer

            Agreed. Which I suppose is Woody Blach but I’d take another Reuter in a second.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            I’d take another young Cain as well. I’m pretty sure it was ’09 and not ’10, but I saw Cain from the bleachers throw something like a one hitter or two hitter vs. the Rangers. He was popping 97 on the stadium gun. Good times.

          • RobDeer

            I think I recall that. In fact, I’m pretty sure I was still living in NYC and watching it at Jimmy’s Corner off of Times Square. It’s really the ONLY reason to go near that area. Jimmy Glenn is the owner’s name, used to be a boxing trainer, worked with Ali, among others. Also where the end of Raging Bull was shot when LaMotta (DeNiro) is doing his standup routine. Amazing old boxing pictures and his Polish wife, Swani, runs the bar with an iron fist which has to be seen to be truly appreciated.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Upvote for your storytelling. You write for Lonely Planet by chance?

          • RobDeer

            My friends call me Rick. You can address me as Mr. Steves.

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            I love your work!

          • Scout Finch Baseball

            Especially if the umps can give him 4 inches on the corners.

      • DrLefty

        Beede won the ERA title in the Eastern League. His W-L record was because Richmond seriously sucked this year. He had an outstanding year, and if he’s not ready by spring, it won’t be long after that.

    • crawnik

      Come spring, it’ll be interesting to see who is going to battle for #4-5 slots in the rotation. Any combination of Blach/Suarez/Beede/Blackburn/Heston. There’s quite a bit of talent there and really, there’s no need to keep any of them in Triple A for another year. The time is now. Can’t be coddling these kids. Cain needs to go to the bullpen.

      • totalfan62

        Giants face a big decision with Cain. All things considered, they should absorb that last $27MM and move on. Another year of can he/can’t he only hurts the team and retards the progress of the rising youngsters.

    • The Oracle

      When it comes to Bickford, one thing is true: the Giants blew it, either by trading him or by wasting a #1 pick on him.

      • totalfan62

        They doubled down on paying $6MM bonus to Lucious Fox, then trading him to TB with Duffy.

  • channelclemente

    It seems Derrick Rose is about to create a job opening in the NBA point guard ranks.

    http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/lapd-confirms-criminal-investigation-against-derrick-rose.html

  • RobDeer

    Hey boys and girls, how’s the blog morale? I had a lovely Tahoe weekend, any struggles I incurred on the golf course, and they were numerous, I made up for at the casino. I actually came home with three times the amount of money I left LA with. That’s a rarity. Collected my last wager at the Hyatt Sportsbook yesterday morning and remembered to check on the Giants odds of winning it all. 10-1. 10 to effing 1? Really? Have they not watched this team in the second half. Needless to say, I didn’t bet it. Hopefully, I’ll regret not throwing $100 on ’em when it’s all said and done but it just didn’t seem like the juice was worth the squeeze. Which sucks cuz I very much enjoy freshly squeezed juice.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Hey Jack-Nab, I was waiting for you at Harrah’s in the Keno room, WTF?

      • RobDeer

        Dammit!! I thought you said the Harrah’s in RENO!! Was there all day yesterday waiting for you.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          Whaaaat??? What are you talking about?

          All I said was that I forgot to take my Beano and that the air ain’t so fair.

          I haven’t been anywhere near Tahoe or Reno. But I hope you had a nice time and put all your money on the Dodgers because lining your pockets would sure help take out the sting.

          • RobDeer

            Dodgers have zero chance of winning it all. Possibly even less than zero, starring RDJ.

  • just peachy.
  • Matthew

    Some folks were chatting below about the “dishonesty” ( my word) of celebrity endorsements in general.

    The pharmaceutical industry, in my opinion as a marketing channel professional, is the most absurd – and is generally celebrity-free. Now, the fact is that the FDA plays this phony game of forcing the side effects to be listed, even though they are the ones that approve the drug in the first place…. Administrative CYA at its hypocritical best.

    Otezla – as the peppy “Walking on Sunhine” plays, and the healthy looking lady dances with verve, we’re warned that side effects include depression and suicidal thoughts. Maybe dgg can opine, but I would think there are too many cases where those suicidal thoughts are so great, and experienced in a lonely place that the suggested “call your doctor immediately” are not going to happen.

    The clients I work with in beverage and alcohol have discussions about their message and making it be honest yet compelling. They don’t always succeed…but they are not dancing on tightropes quite like Pharma.

    • The Oracle

      Is there a warning about the cumulative effect of taking that medication while watching the Giants?

      • Only when Chip Kelly resembles Jim Tomsula.

        Niners at #5-11

        • Edward_Fortyhands

          I suppose we can be negative about the 49ers.

          I didn’t realize how bad Gabbert was until he started plunking wide receivers in the head.

          Hyde is an OK back but he reminds me of Earl Cooper; big but not fast enough to be effective.

          The team has no receivers, what do you expect?

          The defense has been horrendous. I had no idea it would sink this low; not just Seattle but the week before, too.

          Chip Kelly is in the unenviable position of having to try to show some signature improvement in his first year as coach but he has no tools, no tools at all.

          Needless to say Kaepernick isn’t the answer.

          • The Oracle

            No one was talking about how talented the 49ers were when Harbaugh took over. No one expected Alex Smith, after having failed with the team, to be back. Everyone expected a rebuilding process. Instead, with dramatically improved coaching, they went 13-3.

          • Edward_Fortyhands

            Okay, if you want to blame it on Chip Kelly, or the usual front office suspects, feel free.

            All I know is, Harbaugh made Kap his horse, and Kap failed. Smith, OTOH, has continued to have a pretty good second wind.

          • The Oracle

            For which Smith can thank Harbaugh.

  • I wish to apologize posthumously to Jose Fernandez for my then immediate opinion on what took place on 9/11/13 as I and many then Extra Baggers and Giants Extra’s passed judgment on the spot with The Kid.

    Fast forward to AFTER that game and Mike Redmond rushes to his office even before his post-game press conference and rings up then Braves Skipper Fredi Gonzalez…
    Redmond: “Hey Fredi, I want to apologize about…

    Gonzales: Interrupting Redmond, “Oh you mean Jose? …. He’s in our clubhouse right now talking to all the guys, all the Braves players….everything is good Mike…”

    http://m.mlb.com/video/v30540867/?query=McCann%2Band%2BJose%2BFernandez

    http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v30539127/?query=McCann%2Band%2BJose%2BFernandez

    Marlins broadcaster Rich Walz talking about Jose Fernandez

    https://audioboom.com/boos/5091075-9-25-rich-walz-talks-about-the-tragic-loss-of-jose-fernandez

  • Bud Norris may get some walk around post season money by the Dodgers but he will have to do it from the sidelines. Thanks for coming Bud…

    • Sgbssfg

      Sidelines? More like from his couch. Wasn’t he DFA’d?

  • Edward_Fortyhands

    Well, since Greek went to the trouble to set up this blog, I promised not to use it to broadcast any negative vibes. So, I won’t.

    Six games left in the regular season. At least the Dodgers have clinched, so we won’t have them celebrating on our field.

    • The Oracle

      Good idea. There hasn’t been any negativity so far and you’re helping to keep the streak alive.

    • RobDeer

      No, just celebrating when they eliminate us from the playoffs. Just kidding!!! No negative vibes!!!

      • Scout Finch Baseball

        Dusty dusting off the kid, Roberts, with a broom. That will be cause for celebration.

    • vixenflem

      That is a perfect silver lining!
      Go Giants!

    • Max

      On the other hand…..those 3 games on our field will likely determine the G’s WC fate. I’m sure the Dodgers would like nothing better than to deliver the knock out blow.

      • Max

        Oops didn’t see Deer’s comments.

  • channelclemente

    I’d like to report a schtick theft, Baggarly using desultory in a tweet.

    • RobDeer

      Pretty sure I saw him use it in a post game write up last week, too. I recall thinking, almost seems like he’s using that word as an olive branch to the everyone fleeing the ship.

      • channelclemente

        But a tweet, because of its brevity is tantamount to a claim of ownership. He’s sucking up to Lefty, IMO.

        • Scout Finch Baseball

          LOL

        • DrLefty

          Yeah, I’m sure he stays awake nights wondering how to get on my good side. 🙂

          • channelclemente

            You’re a blog legend in NorCal. How am I doing?

          • HaakAway

            EarlyMyGuyReturns™ show you just behind Noce as you have Duggar and Slater from the Top Five, In addition to joining you on those two Noce made an ExclusiveMyGuy™ pick of Dylan Davis for a MyGuyCoup™.

            Your pitching scouting will have to come through for you.

          • totalfan62

            Well, you’ve been vocal…and with good reason.

          • channelclemente

            Hell, she’d have to yodel it to get a bigger crowd.

          • Bapah

            Yodel? Hell, I haven’t yodeled in years.

        • dgg

          Which won’t work.

    • Matthew

      Was he describing himself?

      • channelclemente

        Only if he’s missing an ear.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      “Desultory” is so yesterday. Greek Giant is strutting down the runway with “somnambulant”.

      • channelclemente

        He is a figure of yesteryear.

    • HaakAway

      I have seen him use the ™ mark also.
      He is running out of new ideas I think.

      • channelclemente

        #ambulatory confabulation.

        • HaakAway

          “Mobile Fire”?
          Has a nice ring to it at any rate.

          • channelclemente

            No fire, just delusional narrative as per his bio/resume. To wit… In psychiatry, confabulation (verb: confabulate)
            is a disturbance of memory, defined as the production of fabricated,
            distorted or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world, without
            the conscious intention to deceive.

    • Skweezplay55

      Was it schtick-shift or automatic?

      • channelclemente

        He had to consciously do it.

  • “The Evaporating Post Season Blues” – Mick and Muddy “Baby Please Don’t Go

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Or7huOK7o

  • Matthew

    I am NOT a Dodgers fan by any stretch…

    The dramatic comeback win yesterday in Vin’s last home game was a baseball moment for the ages….Seager ties it and….Charlie Culberson walks it off for the division title.

    That is Baseball Gods creating magic for Vin.

    (The playoffs will be different)(it was the Rockies) (Playoffs don’t seem to follow scripts)

    • channelclemente

      Maybe Jobu is a Scully fan…screw the Dodgers.

  • Skweezplay55

    Belt to LF, Posey to 1B, Pagan to PH, Kelby at 3B. Gorkys in CF — why not?

    • Kramerica

      That should’ve happened yesterday. I do not like seeing Belt’s bat on the bench when every game could mean the difference between making and missing the playoffs. Late in the game swap out Brown, move Posey to C and Belt to 1B if Bochy wants to start Posey at 1B. But these final games are too important for Brown to get any starts. Brown is not a viable backup IMO.

      • Bapah

        I agree, so let’s trade Susac. Oh, wait.

        • Kramerica

          The organization fell in love with Brown waaaaaay too quickly last year. Now they are seeing that perhaps they fell head over heels too fast. This team needs a viable backup catcher if Posey is going to continue to play the position for the foreseeable future or he’s going to break down years too soon. Susac, while plagued with many injury issues, could have been that guy. At least Will Smith is finally showing to be the guy they hoped they were trading for.

          • The Oracle

            Susac wasn’t any better than Brown or Hector Sanchez.

          • Bapah

            And you don’t know anything about assessing baseball talent. How many years did you evaluate him?

          • The Oracle

            You’re the guy that still thinks Lincecum can be a closer, so maybe you should try to sound a little less superior about your own assessments.

          • channelclemente

            Would you like mine instead? 😉

          • Susac: Better than Hector – Better than Brown

            Neither of the others would have been involved in a/that trade.

          • Old Man

            Posey simply cannot continue as an everyday catcher. The injuries have mounted up too much. Either trade Belt or platoon him with Posey, reducing Posey’s time behind the plate and wear and tear on his permanently injured body. If they don’t, Posey’s career has about two years left.

            Belt is just not reliable enough as a hitter to justify keeping him in the lineup every day.

    • Michael Scott

      I wouldn’t put anything down on it.

  • Matthew

    Moods change…

    I will not at all be surprised if the Giants make it to the playoffs and the pitching takes them deep. A few guys bats can very well get hot…no signs now, but capable young men

    • Keep’n It Real

      I would agree with you and they’ve got guys that turn on a playoffs switch, but this team also has a tendency to lose to cupcakes (by record). I’m also sure the Dodgers would love to keep the Giants out too.

    • paul in p.v.

      Damn, Mateo – send me a pill quick! ;o) paulito

  • Hello….anybody home….Hello…Giants….are you there….

    Well, “we’ve been haunted in “our” sleep
    You’ve been starring in “our” dreams
    Lord “we” miss you

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxlTx8mmJEA

    • RIP Bobby Keys

      • Old Man

        There were and are better players, but Bobby was awesome!

  • Correction: In my post game post yesterday I incorrectly stated the Giants were 2 games behind the Mets for the top Wild Card. They are in fact only 1 game behind. This changes everything.
    Come on gang! I need you to be my collective editors when I make mistakes!

    • No Soup For You 🙂

    • totalfan62

      I can’t keep up…

    • Keep’n It Real

      I’ve been relying on the ESPN wild card standings and they’ve been challenged too.

    • channelclemente

      We’re all too busy pissing and moaning about our sorry lot in life as Giants baseball fans.

    • DrLefty

      You were actually correct because the Mets have the tiebreaker for home field if the Giants are tied with them. The Giants would have to win the #1 spot outright to host that game.

  • Sam AKA Unknown

    Bored. Waiting for Trump to crush the crooked one. In the meantime, it makes the most sense to start Cueto in a one game playoff. He has been the most consistent and frankly the best pitcher on the staff this year, especially in the last few weeks. He has carried hope when hope has been let down by MadBum & co. Now I know the MadBum/Duffy crowd will argue otherwise but I’m not playing sentimental love songs. I’m playing the guy that has displayed the coconuts down the stretch.

    • Name the amount of golden nuggets or cash. There is nothing presidential about DT. He can’t win. He won’t win. Neither party gave “me” and others a deeper cache for which we could explore and lead our nation. Both parties had 4/8 frickin years. Are you kidding me. I guess I will just write in either Justin Trudeau or Greek Giant.

      • Ham & Egging It

        It’s going to be very close. Maybe 2000 close.

      • Old Man

        JOE WALSH. ROCKY MOUNTAIN WAY, MFers…

    • Bapah

      It’s nice to see the ignorant troll finally emerge once again.

      • Sam AKA Unknown

        Don’t fret. Welfare day is 4 days away. Then you can use your food stamps for a six pack.

        • Bapah

          Clearly I got the ignorant part right.

          • Sam AKA Unknown

            Whatever dude. Keep supporting criminals, welfare cheats, and terrorists.

          • paul in p.v.

            You have much more tolerance for ignorance Bap.

    • paul in p.v.

      You done gave your sheet up Sam.

      • Sam AKA Unknown

        So Cain, MadBum, Posey, and Pence to name a few all wear sheets too? Be careful with your categorizations. You’re labeling a good number of your Giants.

  • Matthew

    I think we all ought to steer clear of any debate commentary.

    • Sam AKA Unknown

      Cueto v. MadBum?

    • Keep’n It Real

      could we dress them up as dumb and dumber?

      • paul in p.v.

        Who’s really stupid here?

        • Keep’n It Real

          both parties…for not coming up with better candidates.

    • The Oracle

      I disagree. Let it rip. Those who get all emotional about it will be very entertaining.

  • Michael Scott

    What not to do in a press conference list for the aspiring baseball manager
    1. Don’t have pressers
    2.Ignore the reporters who you know will give you a hard time,
    3. Only have pressers when you win
    4.Oblviously play favorites, The pretty female reporters for example
    5.Get a restraining order on the press
    6. Do as Bochy does- answer the question without
    answering the question

    • I rather eat two on the rare-side lamb chops, baked potato, spinach with some wine.

    • Old Man

      That’s because he can’t think of an answer. #MelonHeadIsSoftInTheHead.

  • In years past some of my pals here found that their fill of Vin Scully had reached its zenith and were critical of how he sometimes would exacerbate a call or carry on too much. I can understand that. (“Vin Scully talks too much,” Jeff Kent said)

    But perhaps a better look at what he accomplished is to know that he actually put broadcasting on the proverbial map. Oh sure there was Red Barbar and Ernie Harwell and others but it is hard to find a little kid who was a Giant fan – that went on to then become the Bums/Dodgers broadcaster for 67 years. His partner for 32 years Jerry Doggett deserves a ton of credit. Vin never forgot the crowd His greatest calls were so great not but because of his silences — for 38 seconds after Sandy Koufax completed his perfect game, for 68 seconds after Kirk Gibson hobbled off the bench to hit a walk-off home run in the World Series, for 103 seconds after Hank Aaron hit the home run that broke Babe Ruth’s record.

    And then there was Montana to Clark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAjvGFO3Ruc&feature=player_embedded

    So when the festivities were elongated to cover EVERYTHING under the son for Vinny and his wife Sandra it just seemed adequate that this self deprecating man should have his day…or his week. His first wife died at 35 years of age and his oldest son Michael died in a helicopter crash.

    So when Kevin Costner topped off the speeches prior to Vin’s speech – it seemed okay by me.
    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/09/kevin-costner-vin-scully-speech-dodger-stadium

    http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v1183998083/collad-costner-on-the-legacy-of-vin-scully/?query=Kevin+costner

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    You knew the Dodgers would probably have some Vin Scully magic this year, but I don’t think anyone anticipated the kind of black magic that has really spellbound the Giants in the second half.

    BTW, one more person upvote Slikk. Let’s get him to 20!

    • channelclemente

      Don’t overdo it. He’ll demand ranting rights.

    • JStreet

      Ok

  • Local SF Bay Area Peninsula lad (Carlmont HS in Belmont CA) (College of San Mateo and SF State)
    Dana Carvey
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BSXWEeoABA

  • totalfan62

    Very moving tribute to Jose Fernandez at the start of Mets/Marlins game tonight. The grief in the faces of the Marlins players…

    All Marlins wearing FERNANDEZ 16 jerseys, and this will be the last game in which any Marlins player will wear #16.

    So sad.

    • totalfan62

      The lone trumpeter playing “Take Me Out to the Ball Game”…wow.

    • Sam AKA Unknown

      New found respect for Mattingly. We regularly pound on DM, Bochy, Evans, Pagan, and others without perhaps realizing that there is human being behind that title and uniform. To see DM the last 24 hours, wow. You don’t grieve like that unless someone means something to you, and I’m not talking wins and strikeouts.

  • totalfan62

    Dee Gordon with an “outside the park” HR, his first of the year. He then breaks down in tears as he crosses the plate, and falls into the arms of his teammates.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Wow. Nice pbp, tf62. Heartwrenching.

    • Hoona

      Starts the AB from the right side of the plate to honor Fernandez and then hits his first homerun of the season on the first strike. Unreal

    • Sam AKA Unknown
      • totalfan62

        Thanks, Sam.

        • Sam AKA Unknown

          I’m watching the game. Don’t know how these guys are playing. I’m in tears watching the emotion these guys are exhibiting. Unbelievable pros.

          • I don’t know how they are getting through this. Watching Dee in tears is heartbreaking.

      • standardstarboard

        Thanks for that Sam.

    • crawnik

      Hell, when he homered, I started bawling. You couldn’t help but to. Very strong, emotional moment.

    • just peachy.

      I don’t think I’ve ever cried so much over a HR. All the feels.

  • Another athlete who should have a “Governor” on their twitter account:
    1) Open mouth insert both feet
    2) Apologize
    3) Wash – Rinse – Repeat

    http://www.fox23.com/news/trending-now/mariners-suspend-catcher-steve-clevenger-for-rest-of-season-over-blm-tweets/449751156

    • The Oracle

      What a load of hypocritical BS. Kaepernick can label an entire profession racist, but if you disagree with him, that means that you’re insensitive and also a racist. Free speech is much less free when it goes against what is considered politically correct.

      • Whatever……it’s actually OLD OLD news….but I am sure you have ascertained by now that I was talking about hitting the SEND button on twitter vs the content……

        • The Oracle

          It’s from last week. What should he apologize for?

          • I was referring to all athletes who hit the twitter send button before they regurgitate what the consequences might be

      • JStreet

        He labeled the entire profession? I missed that.

        My take, I thought he was trying to call attention to the fact that lots of young black men are being shot with some regularity by police. And they’re not held accountable. What is your source?

        • The Oracle

          Kaepernick used the word “murder” to refer to a number of events, many of which were justified, and ascribed racist motivations to the incidents. He made no reference to the fact that these shootings have involved a tiny percentage of police officers. He thinks that widespread change is required to deal with supposed institutional racism. So yes, I believe my characterization is accurate. Also, there are over 1,000,000 cops in this country who have hundreds of thousands of contacts with people each year, so I disagree with your use of the words “lots” and “regularly.”

          • JStreet

            1) I just wanted to know your source. I already know what you think. As a professional, I do trust your judgement. I do think the perception among many is that there is lots of this going on, regularly. But that’s my opinion.

            2) I challenged you for your source, specifically in your conclusion that he labeled an entire profession racist. If you feel that “many of the events are justified”, I can only conclude from your comment that some events were not.

            My thought is that he didn’t actually label your entire profession as racist. You’d have to agree there are racist people everywhere, including the police.
            But the whole profession? That’s no more likely than thinking there is no one in the profession who is racist. Let’s not stoke the hysteria.

            I recommend you to read a couple Walter Mosley books. We can all get a new look at things. One reason I pay attention to you.

          • JStreet

            You can disagree with a fact. But you can’t make it untrue. It just stays the same.

        • Efrain

          you forgot, he’s a cop, part of the problem.

          • The Oracle

            Do you know me? Do you have any idea who I really am? You want to believe that the police have certain opinions about different groups of people, but you apparently have an opinion about me because I belong to a group. Do you have even the slightest realization of the irony involved?

          • channelclemente

            There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a cop. If you had to see as much of societies dirty underbelly, you might be a bit cynical as well. When they looked at the mess in Chicago statistically, the entirety of that mess could be attributed to less than 5% of the police, the same 5%. You can take issue with a police union protecting those members, but not the police in general. I couldn’t do that job, and it’s as bad a job of stereotyping to blame cops, wholesale, for the acts of a small minority.

          • The Oracle

            Another thing I object to is the automatic belief by many that in situations where it doesn’t appear that an officer acted appropriately, the reason was because of race. It’s apparently not possible that a human being could make a poor, split-second decision simply because of stress and/or fear.

            An officer in Tulsa is being prosecuted for the recent shooting there. Based on what is generally known, it looks like she shouldn’t have pulled the trigger. She was faced with a vehicle stopped in the middle of the road and a large man that was acting in a bizarre manner. He either attempted to reach into the car, or his actions caused her to believe he was going to reach into his car. She shot him. Under different circumstances, such as a situation where he was known to be armed, her actions might have even been justified, but not under these circumstances, not until he actually came out with a gun of his own.

            If I had been in that situation, I’m confident I wouldn’t have shot him. At the same time, I would’ve been very concerned about why he was reaching into that car. If he had pulled out a gun, the officer might have been dead before she could react. So why did she do it? Because she was a racist, or because she made a really bad decision under stress? I think you’re making a pretty large and unsupported jump if you assume it was because of racism.

            What can happen if someone acting in a bizarre manner reaches into their car? If you think that bad decisions are simply the result of racism, you should watch this video. If you do, you’re going to see and hear someone being murdered. But if you always want to assume that the police have the worst intentions, I think it’s only fair that you watch.

            http://lawofficer.com/2016/09/the-kyle-dinkheller-murder-shows-us-why-there-is-more-to-the-tulsa-incident/

          • channelclemente

            It’s a tough job, but somehow things have to change on both ends.

  • Bumble Bee Yellow and Red

    HP Umpire Jordan Baker ejected Nationals P AJ Cole for throwing at Pirates batter Jung Ho Kang and Pirates 1B Sean Rodriguez for fighting in the bottom of the 3rd inning of the Nationals-Pirates game. With two out and none on, Kang took a 0-0 fastball for a called first ball. Replays indicate the pitch was located three feet off the inner edge of home plate and head high. At the time of the ejections, the Nationals were leading, 4-3.

    http://www.closecallsports.com/2016/09/mlb-ejections-180-181-jordan-baker-2-3.html

  • totalfan62

    Marlins are all over Colon, now 4-0 with one out in the second.

  • World Baseball Classic Ejection
    Israel versus Great Britain
    http://www.closecallsports.com/2016/09/wbc-ejections-q1-2-alberto-ruiz-1-2.html

  • See a dog/animal in a HOT car? Now you have alternatives in California

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Gov-Brown-signs-law-allowing-Californians-to-9287649.php?cmpid=nl_top

    • What if you think it’s a dog but it is really a stuffed animal?
      #grayarea

  • Cueball

    My apologies if anyone posted this one already, but just watched it and it was moving, especially the last shot of the mound.

    http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/203293594/v1188949683/mature-beyond-years-fernandez-a-shining-star-in-mlb

  • goodsam73

    Marlins 6-0 got bartolo out of the game after 3

    • Hoona

      on Bour’s first triple of his professional career- minor league included.

  • DrLefty

    Longball Duvall helping the team what drafted him again–#32. Go Reds!

    • channelclemente

      Our ace in the hole. Still a Giant at heart.

    • channelclemente

      Reds add on, 3-0.

    • crawnik

      Together, we’re Red Marlins!

  • Mavo

    On this day off as we remember young Jose Fernandez, the fragility of life and the Dodgers clinching the NL West title, I thought I’d share a memory from the 1960’s to take our minds off the depressing thoughts. I hope you enjoy this trip back to the summer of 1963 when I was 10!

    Jimmy Ray’s Rough Debut

    Jim Ray Hart’s Rough Debut!

    Earlier this year we lost Jim Ray Hart who was a great Giant during the 1960’s when I was following baseball obsessively! He had a really rough first day in the big leagues. I thought I’d share this memory with our group of Giants fans. I hope you enjoy this trip back in Giants history.

    I remember Jimmy Ray Hart’s debut vividly as my father & I were listening to the game while my father worked on his vintage Alfa Romeo car in our garage. My grandfather and father had wanted to see Stan The Man Musial in his final year. They tried to get tickets for the doubleheader on Sunday. But it was sold out! Instead we went to the Saturday game and saw the Giants win. But back to Jim Ray Hart vs Bob Gibson.

    It was a Sunday doubleheader against the Cardinals at Candlestick on July 7th 1963, the last day before the All Star break. It was Jim Ray Hart’s debut that day. We’d heard a lot about Jim Ray Hart’s in Tacoma and his call up was greatly anticipated.

    The Giants won the first game in 15 innings and Jimmy Ray broke in with 2 hits in his first MLB game. The 2nd game was a matchup of two greats, Hall of Fame pitchers Juan Marichal & Bob Gibson! Juan was coming off his famous 16 inning classic versus Warren Spahn 5 days prior. Alvin Dark had generously given Juan a whole extra day’s rest after his historic marathon! Boy, times were surely different back then!

    Jimmy Ray’s tough day began in the second game. He was facing the intimidating Bob Gibson. The first time in the box facing Gibson, the Cardinals ace tried to send a message to the rookie. A typical high inside fastball by Gibson hit Jimmy Ray! The now infamous Gibson beaning took place in the 2nd inning. That’s when Gibson broke his shoulder with a vicious fastball up and in. Giants manager Alvin Dark called it a disgrace. Ernie Bowman, the next batter after Hart’s injury, also got dusted by Gibson. I remember my dad saying Gibson was as bad a headhunter as Drysdale after Bowman got low-bridged.

    The next inning when Gibson came up Juan dusted him good! He got fined $50 for that. Nowadays, he’d be tossed! Gibson wound up shutting out the Giants 5-0. How did Juan do in the first game after his masterpiece against Spahn? He shut out the Cardinals until one down in the 7th when Stan The Man himself hit a two run homer off him! It was Musial’s final homerun against the Giants. Stan The Man owned the Giants … he hit 89 of his 475 career homeruns off Giants pitchers!! His homerun off the Dominican Dandy also broke a string of 30 1/3 innings of not allowing an earned run by Marichal!

    There’s actually very brief film footage of Gibson breaking Jimmy Ray’s shoulder blade in the outstanding new documentary narrated by Kevin Costner “Fastball” They don’t identify Hart in the video. But it’s clearly Jimmy Ray, number 16, rolling around in the dirt as Tim McCarver looks on. My eagle eye for anything Giants’, especially during the 60’s, caught it immediately. It’s at 26 minutes 35 seconds into the movie. I highly recommend this great baseball documentary! It’s on Netflix for streaming if you have it. There’s also a great still image of my idol Willie Mays being drilled in the back by Gibson. It had to be later in Willie’s career, as when he was younger his reflexes made him extremely difficult to hit … even for a hard thrower like Gibson!

    So that’s the saga of Jimmy Ray Hart’s debut! Thanks to the excellent Baseball Reference I was able to verify my memory and expand on them.

    Go Giants!!
    Mavo

    • Matthew

      Chris, your fanrastic stories seem to always come at the perfect time. Thank you for being you, my friend

      • Mavo

        Thanks Mathew!

    • paul in p.v.

      Dear Mavo, U d Man.

      • paul in p.v.

        p.s. Since you have such a long memory – do you recall that Jim Ray was on a Gints’ affiliate in El Paso (with the Alou Bros.) that HIT .310 AS A TEAM in the early ’60’s?

        Or was I dreaming??

      • Mavo

        Thanks Paul! Have you watched Fastball yet? I highly recommend it!

  • Keep’n It Real

    SF Gate’s list of Giants probably playing their last games in orange and black.(contract based)

    They are relievers Javier Lopez, Santiago Casilla and Sergio Romo — the three remaining members of the bullpen’s Core Four — starter Jake Peavy and outfielders Angel Pagan and Gregor Blanco.

    • Old Man

      Agree with all of these. If they can sign Pagan for a year at the league minimum, I’d keep him, otherwise I’d put Kelby Tomlinson in left and make space doe a new relief staff.

    • Romo will be back. Maybe Blanco too.

      • DrLefty

        I could see Romo. I don’t see Blanco, much as that saddens me. Austin Slater or Gorkys Hernandez can be Blanco at 10% the cost.

        • channelclemente

          Unless he has contract, or no one looks better.

        • Hmm. Depends on his health maybe.

        • paul in p.v.

          Unfortunately.

      • Keep’n It Real

        I don’t see Romo back. Peavy maybe as a long reliever, but the rest is gone IMO.

        • paul in p.v.

          No offense KIR – but, get real. Snowball in hell.

          • Keep’n It Real

            Oh….I think you can imagine the Giants doing something like this. They keep guys around to a fault and Peavy won’t get a gig anywhere else.

      • Sgbssfg

        I want Blanco back. No better 4th starter, playoff and series contributor in the show. And he loves being a Giant.

  • channelclemente

    6-0 Reds. single after single with a bunt in between.

    • totalfan62

      And 7-2 Marlins, top of 6th. Positive Giants aura for sure!

      Hold on, Marlins and Reds!

      • channelclemente

        Just get us into the scrum, Jobu.

        • 610nm

          It seems sad that our best day recently occurs on our off day.

          • channelclemente

            Hopefully I’ll still be live come October, no matter what. I love it, baseball, win or lose.

          • 610nm

            Oh, yeah. Let’s face it, we even dig the Hot Stove League.

          • channelclemente

            lol.

          • Matthew

            I believe Scout plopped down big money for his Hot Stove PSL so he can be in the front rowwwwww

  • totalfan62

    Just did a little research on Matt Cain’s career. This is Cain’s 11th season as a Giant, spending his entire career with us. He was a stellar, top of the rotation starter for seven seasons, culminating in his career year of 2012 which featured his perfect game and our second WS championship, of which he was an integral part.

    Unfortunately the past four years have been full of injuries and unmet expectations, and now Cain has become the proverbial black sheep. The Giants still owe Cain $27.5MM: $20MM for 2017, plus a $7.5MM buyout on a 2018 option.

    I opined earlier that the Giants should consider releasing Cain and absorbing that debt. Over Cain’s 11-year career he has won 101 games and earned appx $140MM. He pitched well while being paid much less than his current salary. Look at the entirety of his career, call it a day and move on.

    • Bapah

      I’d rather wait until next year to see if there is anything different with a healthy Cain. He’s earned it.

      • 610nm

        I’d like to see them tell Cain and Suarez and Blach (and Beede…) that the job is there for anyone who grabs it in spring training.

        • Bapah

          It’s not the perfect test since everyone will be at different levels of “arm shape”; it needs start there for sure.

          • paul in p.v.

            Rully. Spring Training is such a crap shoot.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Nothing to lose by hanging on through spring training and seeing what’s what.

      • DrLefty

        Agreed

      • Kramerica

        There’s a lot to lose if they hang on through ST and give him the 5th SP slot…such as more games.

    • Matthew

      Two key thoughts for me

      1) he should get a chance next season because his health has been the issue. He earned that right through his unwavering loyalty to the organization, and the results when healthy

      2) Money should have nothing to do with the decision. The ownership group and management made a commitment to an employee who helped make then even more fabulously rich. His salary is very large in a fishbowl and seems absurd. But I think the profits being made by the owners make the point moot

      This year has given me baseball vertigo so far. There are several investments that look bad ( I tend to focus on Span, but Scout us right – let’s see a healthy Span, too).

      Now, what must happen next year is quick decisions. That’s the key to me

  • channelclemente

    8-0 Reds.

  • channelclemente

    10-0 Reds in the 4th. They’ve feasted on their 3rd Cardinals pitcher in 4 innings.

  • DrLefty

    Wow, wow, wow. Check out Baggarly’s latest, on Bochy. Fascinating. Credit where it’s due: This is Baggs at his reporterly/writerly best.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/09/26/not-a-faint-heart-bruce-bochy-committed-to-staying-on-as-giants-manager/

    • 610nm

      Interesting and informative story, by someone who is indeed a good reporter.

    • channelclemente

      Each to his own.

    • Peter Johnson

      The problem with the Giants is that Sabean and Bochy both are veteran first , that’s why young players and Minor leaguers that should be promoted to the MLB have to be perfect to succeed with the Giants, Matthew is wrong when he said Sabean was a Buffer to bad Bochy in the past, they think a like .

      • Matthew

        So, Sabean didn’t trade Bengie? My bad.

        Sabean likes bargain vets. No doubt. My point is Sabean acted like a boss. Evans doesn’t. So, you missed my point.

        • The Oracle

          What power does Evans really have? His boss is one of Bochy’s best friends.

          • Matthew

            Agreed

    • The Oracle

      The story seems to confirm what many here have guessed; that Bochy’s standing among the players has slipped and his decisions have been questioned. If the problems we’ve seen in the second half continue into next season, things could get ugly very quickly.

      • DrLefty

        It had to be true, right? We all saw what Romo did.

        • The Oracle

          Even if no one had publicly reacted, there’s no way anyone could’ve have been comfortable with Bochy’s decision making, particularly the players, who had the most to lose.

        • Matthew

          I have felt all season that if we are seeing what can be considered insubordination in public, there may be much more we don’t see.

          When brought up, many say “how could you know?” That’s a fair question…but I ask back ” when have you seen such public displays of frustration?”

          Sure, it’s just a couple of incidents. But, and I’m guessing again, I also see less energy and enthusiasm this year.

          There is something weird going on beyond anything in the Bochy years…we are left to guess, as we watch the losses pile up

          • DrLefty

            I’ve always called it “the tip of the iceberg.” When you see a married couple snarl at each other in public, you know it has be brutal at home. When you see a parent belittle a child, you know that kid’s getting the s**t kicked out of them (literally or figuratively) all the time. And when you see disrespect for a manager in front of TV cameras, you know that the players are talking/feeling amongst themselves. It just is what it is.

    • Michael Scott

      The best thing that can be said about his piece is that he didn’t do it in upper case.

  • channelclemente

    13-1 Reds on an Adam Duvall 3 run hr. You go boy.

    • Peter Johnson

      He has 100 RBI

    • DrLefty

      Always liked that kid.

      • channelclemente

        He’s 3-4, with 2HRs. The HRs were line shots, and all that loft is gone. This kid may have a future if he’s adjusted. He/them are on their 4th Cardinals pitcher.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Good time to pad stats.

    • The Oracle

      They must have moved the fences in to where the warning track used to be. 33 HRs and 100 RBIs for Duvall in 2016. The Giants might have been able to use that. I know, I know…he won’t be nearly as good next season. I remember a similar argument earlier in the season that he’d only had a good month.

      • channelclemente

        Why you say that, he’s making (?) the adjusts to stay. He quit swinging like {Posey.

  • channelclemente

    14-1 Reds.

  • Matthew

    It appears that Adam Duvall has done more for the Giants since the trade than Mike Leake….

    Thanks for the bombs, kid.

    • It was all part of our master plan when we traded him!

    • DrLefty

      Mike Leake could still help us this week. I believe he can.

  • The Oracle

    Trump may have just lost the 400 pound vote.

    • Matthew

      We literally have a code writer in IT that’s 400 pounds. We’re all exchanging group emails right now on the fact that he was brought up in the debate

      • paul in p.v.

        He went out of his way to lose votes tonight.

    • Kramerica

      It’s ok because “my temperament is my strongest asset. I have winning temperament.”

  • DrLefty

    Mets lose, Cardinals down 15-2 in the seventh.

    This may be the best day that the Giants have had since the All-Star break.

    • Bapah

      Maybe the best thing to do is just not play any more games. We’ll win for sure.

    • The Oracle

      If only the Giants weren’t forced to play more games.

    • crawnik

      Now that’s a lead that certainly can’t be blown. Take note S.F.
      (P.S., you have to score runs too).

    • BALDHEADSLIKK

      Got that right! Maybe we should take off Tuesday as well and see if we can gain ground that lol.

  • crawnik

    Nats got blown out 14-4 by Arizona and now lead Dodgers by one game for 2nd best record in NL. It’s their 6th loss in last 9. Oh and Wilson Ramos went down with what looks like a significant knee injury.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Whoa. LA will be playing for that advantage.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Yasmany Tomas hits #30. An Arizona Duvall batting .269.

  • earlytimes

    Best line I’ve seen so far on the debate..

    “Hilary Clinton belongs in the White House. Donald Trump belongs on my show.”

    Jerry Springer.

  • Scout Finch Baseball

    At least the Giants haven’t been getting blown out and wading through garbage time. But perhaps it is healthy to be involved in some of those blowouts so as bench players get extra ABs. At any rate, mostly close, competitive games as opposed to having their pitchers taken to the woodshed.

    • Matthew

      Well, with 6 games left, bench players getting AB’s isn’t a priority. It’s too late. Just win games, whittle to 25, strap in and roll

  • BALDHEADSLIKK

    I listened to the comedy hour i mean debate all the way from El Dorado Hills yes that El Dorado Hills to Fairfield and im tellin ya that was the funniest hour of my life. What a joke.

    • Eleuthero

      My friend in Phoenix asked me who I thought won the debate. My answer was “no one”.

      • BALDHEADSLIKK

        “No one”would make a great president

        • Eleuthero

          Our Republic has hit a new low with these two running for Prez. We’ve had bad choices before but this takes the cake. In the commentary after the debate the real topic of interest should have been who lied more than whom?

  • John Victory Faust

    Honestly, if the Giants squeak in, back into the WC by default from their pre-ASG break money-in-the-bank win total– it takes the opprobrium off the Front Office and ownership group. They can, without irony, say that they did their jobs– the club made the playoffs. Last year when we didn’t make the playoffs the FO successfully addressed the rotation and the mid season acquisitions of Nunez, Moore (however painful) and Smith look so far pretty strong. But Span, this year at least, was a swing and a miss. If we back into the playoffs, I don’t believe the FO nor the ownership will feel the sense of urgency to up the ante (the payroll) required to land the .300 avg. power bat this club so sorely needs. So…if they go 6-0 I’m standing on my Lazyboy with tears streaming down my face yelling all is forgiven, if, however, they play the way they’ve played for the last ten weeks, it might just be the medicine they need to take to get better.

    • Eric Ritz

      What .300 avg. power bat do you think might be available?

      • John Victory Faust

        Well…you got me there!

    • Eleuthero

      You just articulated my greatest fear that the FO’s sense of urgency won’t be sufficiently high if we back into the playoffs via the WC route. However, I’m afraid the team’s near term future is not looking good because there are just too many holes to plug. The greatest is the total lack of a bullpen. They’ve won championships without great team power but they won all of them with a great bullpen. Another problem that seems to be etched into their future is player aging and fragility. Unlike 2011 and 2013, I’m afraid they’re much closer to being in a long term rebuild mode than they are to being a Division Championship contender. This is the Dodgers 4th straight Division title … a team full of rookies and 2nd year men.

      • Kramerica

        They are going to sign an elite closer, I have no doubt about that. Possibly even a second upper tier RP. Otherwise the rotation is set and the FA position player pool is among the worst class ever. Cespedes isn’t coming here and signing him to a huge deal will backfire in a major way with his litany of injury issues. Regardless of whether they make the playoffs or not I think the offseason approach will be the same.

        The one thing that not many people are talking about that I’d like to see is securing a productive backup catcher. Brown is not going to cut it and he forces Posey to play more behind the plate than he should. Given Posey’s disastrous second half offensively a top priority should be preserving his health as long as possible. But I don’t think the Giants will address this issue regardless of whether they make the playoffs.

        • Eleuthero

          I’ll believe they’ll sign an elite closer when I see it. What will we pay for this person? We’ve got little to trade. You’re right about Cespedes and we don’t need a longer DL list after this year. I also agree with you about Brown but the problem is that we need a whole bullpen and several durable position players. Bottom line? We can’t buy half a team.

          • Kramerica

            I think you’re overstating it. The pen has actually been terrible moreso in high leverage situations. I don’t think their second half numbers have been awful, but their blown saves have been crushing (mostly a result of continually going back to the Casilla well). I think the Giants will sign Melancon to something like 4/46, an overpay, but worth it. A stalwart in the 9th will go a long way towards stabilizing the pen. Law looks very promising, Strickland still has use in the 7th/8th. Smith is looking good. Maybe bring Romo back on a 1 year deal. Okert may be a solid LH option. It won’t be the best pen ever but it has a shot to be very effective with a stabilizer in the 9th.

            Bottom line is if the offense is closer to the second half than the first then this team has no chance next year. The power needs to come back, not just HRs, but extra base hits in general. IMO it’s incumbent upon Posey, Panik, Crawford and Belt to play to their career norms. If they do and this team signs an elite closer they’ll be competitive next year.

          • Eleuthero

            Our core four went to our core zero. The problem with your reasoning is that one good guy in the pen isn’t enough. Our 2012 team and last year’s KC Royals show that you really need at least 3. Just my opinion but I don’t share your feelings about Law and Okert. If they were “all that” they would have arrived in the majors sooner than ages 26 and 25 respectively and in minor roles at that.

            You’re right about our offense but our stars seem to be either fragile and/or needing an inordinate amount of rest. I’m very cynical about the modern MLB player’s need to sit out so often. Forget Cal Ripken, I’d have a cardiac infarction if ONE player could play all 162 games. Craw and Belt already have played to their career norms this season. One wonders if Panik has been “figured out” because a 72 point decline in BA is huge. Hence my cynicism about our future.

          • Eric Ritz

            Many people have illustrated how the teams hates promoting rookies and giving them a fair shot, so it’s not really fair to pretend that Law would have made it up here earlier if he were really “all that”. He’s been one of the best relievers in MLB this year.

          • Eleuthero

            You can’t really compare a guy that’s been used mainly in low stress situations with leading MLB relievers working as closers and/or in high stress situations. It’s just not a fair comparison. Law has ONE save. It’s apples and oranges.

          • Eric Ritz

            His leverage usage has been about average, though I hear what you’re saying. I still don’t think you’re giving him credit for the great season he’s having, one of the best seasons from a Giants reliever in the “championship era” (with Wilson and Casilla in 2010 being, IMO, the two best).

          • Eleuthero

            Oh there’s no doubt he’s the star of the pen at this point. No doubt at all. However, with just one save he needs to be put to the test of true closing. I don’t know if they’ll have the nerve to do it in these last 6 games but IMO they have nothing to lose. I mean what’s the alternative that hasn’t been tried? Gearrin is mediocre. Strickland is a crapshoot. I don’t need to say anything about Casilla. I’d love to see him close over this last week. Then we’ll really see something … or we won’t.

          • DrLefty

            Law was 24 when he debuted. He just turned 25 a couple weeks ago. And he had Tommy John surgery, which delayed him. He was very close to making the team out of camp in 2014, at age 22. He had the injury that led to TJ later that season. He’s an excellent reliever prospect who’s had a fine rookie year. He should get some Rookie of the Year votes, in fact.

            As for arriving in a “minor role,” most rookies don’t come right up and become the closer on their team. I remember Craig Kimbrel, one of the best closers in the game from a young age, was in the bullpen for the Braves in a lesser role in 2010. Billy Wagner was the closer.

    • DrLefty

      You get an upvote for “opprobrium.” That was awesome!

    • Skweezplay55

      Don’t worry. They do not look capable of going 6-0 or 5-1. Going 4-2 would be a miracle.

  • 12xu

    This morning on Murph and Mac, they played a radio call of Miller saying, “And Cody Ransom boots another one.” Was that from the sickening Steve Finley HR game to eliminate the Giants in ’04?

  • Peter Johnson

    Jeff Passan wrote an article on Jose Fernandez and what happened that final night of his life, sounds like Fernandez was upset over something and took his boat out to sea to blow off some steam, one of his friends that got killed in the accident, called another friend about the boat ride with Fernandez and this friend tried to talk them out of going out on the boat at night, this is who is Passan’s source for the article .

    • steve k
      • Peter Johnson

        Thanks

        • Bapah

          There had to be more to it, but I thought there were three people found. I’m afraid the whole story is yet to be told.

          • Peter Johnson

            They met and picked up the 3rd guy later in the night, the man that told the story to Passan did not know the 3rd man .

          • Bapah

            Thanks

          • The Oracle

            I think the more to it is going to be that a young guy got drunk and killed himself and his two friends, but still received glowing tributes because he’s great at throwing a baseball.

          • Bapah

            I’m not sure there was EtOH involved, but uncontrolled temper, anger and stupidity surely was. Yes, self-indulgence killed his two friends and him.

    • Scout Finch Baseball

      Thanks guys. “life is short, heaven is forever”

  • paul in p.v.

    Great Henry article over on the twit side about departing Gigantes:

    http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/6-key-Giants-might-be-playing-final-games-for-S-F-9289924.php?t=af9e2e3aec&cmpid=twitter-premium

    My hope – hand onto Sergio and Gregor. Still some gas in teh tank…

    • Michael Scott

      I was about to cite the same article. Hard to imagine anybody having a problem with that piece.

    • DrLefty

      That was awesome, thanks. Made me a little sad. There are great Giants memories with all six of those guys.

  • Michael Scott

    3 and 3- not likely, but not out of the question (for the 2nd WC spot)
    4 and 2-should be enough for the 2, Outside chance for the 1.
    5 and 1-should get home field advantage for WC game.

    • totalfan62

      Or just shake off this malaise that has encumbered us for ten weeks and rip off six straight Ws. That will for sure get us in–with momentum.

      But, like you said…4-2 is probably the best we can hope for.

      • 610nm

        I’m hoping more for the 5-1 or 6-0 result, as that seems the only way to shake off the malaise engulfing the main players. The just barely getting through as the 2nd WC result is a recipe for one last embarassing performance.

        One of these series is against the hated Dodgers, in our own yard, which really ought to be 100% motivation in itself, never mind the WC. The off season will seem a lot shorter with an LA sweep ending this one.

        • 610nm

          Oops, this is important: Go Giants.