I Hate The Dodgers

by Dr Lefty

Today’s game:  Giants (40-64) at Dodgers (72-31), 1:05 p.m. at Chavez Latrine

Ty Blach (6-6, 4.50 ERA) vs Rich Hill (7-4, 3.48 ERA)

I’ve hated them since I was a 10-year-old new Giants fan watching Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Perry, and (Bobby) Bonds. I loved Bill Laskey because he famously said, as a young Giants pitcher:  “I hate the Dodgers!  Hate’ em!  Hate ’em!”  I hated them in the 80s when we’d go to Dodger Stadium to see the Giants while we were grad students at USC.  I hated them in 2013 when former Giants hero Brian Wilson made an a** of himself yelling at Larry Baer in front of 41,000 people at the end of a nice Giants win (I was in the park for that one–it was beyond strange).

I’m too young to remember ’62, and I wasn’t born for Bobby Thomson’s heroics in ’51.  But some of my favorite memories are of Joe Morgan knocking the Dodgers out of the playoffs on the last day of the 1982 season, MadBum taking Kershaw deep twice, and, of course, Brian Johnson in 1997.  Even when we’re not playing them, I hate them and root against them and rejoice when they fail.

I don’t care that they have appealing young players or that Kershaw’s the best pitcher of his generation or that Jansen’s putting up historic numbers or that Dave Roberts was a good Giant who started a winery with Rich Aurilia. I. Can’t. Stand. Them.

I was born and bred to hate the Dodgers. I don’t know any other way.

Here are the lineups. Belt still out. Starts for MyGuy™ Gomez and Kelby; Hwang playing 1B (hope it goes better than the last time).

Duck the Fodgers; BEAT LA.

[We’re off to see James Taylor and Bonnie Raitt at AT & T tonight, so I’ll be back with a postgame wrap in the morning.]

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    Breckeroni wants to know: who can help, someday??? Yesterday’s relevant minor league performances:

    Sacramento:

    Tyler Beede 5 IP, 3 H, ER, 2 BB, 5 K – 3.38 ERA, 1.25 WHIP
    Jae Gyun Hwang 2 for 4, 2B (7) – .314 avg, .745 OPS
    Austin Slater 1 for 2, RBI – .299 avg, .743 OPS
    Mac Williamson 0 for 4, 2 K – .222 avg, .528 OPS in 46 PAS, with 14 Ks & just one BB.
    Orlando Calixte 0 for 3, BB, SB (7) – .257 avg, .728 OPS

    Lefty, how did Tyler Rogers and Kyle Crick look?

    For Richmond, just one, really:

    Chris Shaw 3 for 4, 2B (7) – .306 avg, .951 OPS, just 15 Ks in 101 PAs, and an even # of BBs ! If you are looking for good news in the Giants org, other than Arroyo, this is the guy!

    San Jose Giants were shut down by one of A’s top prospects, and very high draft pick, AJ Puk.
    Giants intriguing lefty from Oregon, Matt Krook, has been awful this year. Just awful. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, Jalen Miller, Ryan Howard, Bryan Reynolds and Aramis Garcia each had one hit, Garcia’s left the yard, his 6th. Garcia is a 24 y.o. with a 1.144 OPS in 63 PAs, but 18 Ks and just 3 BB.

    Down at Augusta, it’s not all that exciting, but Jacob Heyward hit is 3rd HR on a 3 for 5 night. His average has climbed up to .205 and his OPS is .701.

    ***Johnny Cueto trade target prospect watch***

    Kyle Tucker (20 y.o., HOU @ A+) 2 HR in 4 ABs yesterday. Season line: .294/.373/.608, 6 HR, 10 SB
    Could be the future stud outfielder the Giants are looking for. If only these two teams match up before the deadline which seems possible in my mind.

    • DrLefty

      See above for mentions of Crick and Rogers.

      I’ve been thinking about Houston or the Yankees as destinations for Cueto.

      I could also see Belt going on the market if Shaw continues to progress.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Great report, thanks ! Any velo reading from Crick?

        for Yankees, 22 y.o. Clint Frazier is on fire at AAA. 7 game hitting streak. Batting .269/.371/..516 with 4 HR and 2 SB.

        If they can find a team in need of a really good 1B for a playoff push that has some killer prospects, pull that trigger. Expedite the rebuild/retool with legitimate young talent. Buster & Shaw can platoon, Posey can be exposed as catcher less.

        • DrLefty

          Yes! Crick was lighting it up at a steady 95–not always where he wanted it, but he settled in and was definitely bringing the heat. That said, the 3-2 change-up he got the strikeout on impressed me the most–he’d been a little shaky in a one-run game, and that changed the inning. The last two outs happened so quickly we barely realized the game was over.

      • paul in p.v.

        You’d trade Bob?? Sob!!

        Next thing, you’ll be swapping Craws. Matthew ain’t gonna like that.

        • Matthew

          Haha…you know , Paul, I don’t think Lefty WANTS Bob traded…but there is an odd franchise disconnect towards him. Craw is a cornerstone. Bob annoys them.

          • DrLefty

            That’s correct. I’m #TeamBelt and always have been. I’m just saying given the big picture, he’s someone I could see them trading.

          • giantc

            I really hope they do not trade Belt.

          • paul in p.v.

            God forbid they should keep Bob and start Shaw somewhere else. LF? ‘He’s not ready.’

          • DrLefty

            They have been trying Shaw in LF over the last couple weeks.

            To be fair, they ARE trying to figure some things out. Last night we saw Ryder Jones in LF and Slater in CF. It’s not a bad idea to see if anyone who can hit at all can play the OF. They’re set at infield for awhile.

          • paul in p.v.

            I saw that you saw that. Great report! (I miss Sacramento.) :o)

          • giantc

            Maybe if Shaw continues to have a good season in Richmond he gets the Pablo/Duffy call and skips AAA.

      • crawnik

        This from Giants Farm:

        The Houston Astros could be a fit here, as they have been rumored to have an interest in Jose Quintana for months now, but the White Sox asking price is likely extremely high following the way they swindled both the Red Sox and Nationals this winter. For Cueto, the Giants could target an arm in the lower minors and potentially someone like Daz Cameron (#9) or Teoscar Hernandez (#7). Cameron is the son of former Mariner outfielder Mike Cameron and was selected by the Astros in 2015. Hernandez has raw power, an above average arm, some speed, and a little big league experience. MLB Pipeline also says that he has 20-20 potential.

        • Foothills A-rye-o

          Pass on Cameron, but Hernandez is excellent another target. Derek Fisher is as well, but there’s something Jarrett Parker about his game. CF Hernandez is MLB ready. Tucker would be #1 target but could be untouchable. His older brother, Preston, also in the org at AAA with MLB experience. Maybe there is a strong catching prospect in their system. I think that is something worthwhile targeting over additional pitching.

    • PerSpeier35

      You missed one Ryan; PerSpeier35, 3 for 4, two doubles, four rib-eyes in a Saturday afternoon tilt at Randy Johnson field. That is a very good day for this old dude.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Nice day! thank you for the PerSpeier report.

        Hey, also checked on that Indians prospect that is son of a guy that is joining your company. 21st round draft pick off to a good start in pro career. Best of luck to him.

        • PerSpeier35

          Thanks, I thought you missed that post. I’ll be pulling for that kid.

      • JStreet

        Bang the gong!

    • giantc

      Yeah – I saw on another board that a Houston fan was lamenting they would need to give up Tucker to get Cueto. I think the Giants should rest Cueto for a start or two so his blister heals up. I love Cueto but if they continue to play poorly they need to get something for him at the deadline. If he is pitching well he will opt out anyway and they could lose him for nothing.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        that board is on it. Nats vs. Houston WS ?

  • 610nm

    Nice story Lefty, and brilliant to give us something interesting to read about. I was pumped up on the off day about the MLB games being far enough east to follow, so stuck out all 8.5 innings last night. This was a much better recap.

    My guess is Hwang comes up in mid-June, because of the July 1 date in his contract. Calixte’s immediate future would appear to be in the hands of Ruggiano. Williamson certainly isn’t putting his hand up to be the 8th LF.

  • DrLefty

    Parker, Marrero, Hernandez, Hill, Belt, Nunez, Ruggiano. Does that sound correct?

    Look at that list. Just look at it.

    • DrLefty

      Four infielders, two journeymen, and a AAAA guy. Amazing. I thought the 2013 parade was bad (Kensuke Tanaka, anyone? Roger Kieschnick? Brett Pill? Jeff Francoeur?)–but I think this tops it.

    • Peter Johnson

      Kelby also has played LF this year, but no starts

    • crawnik

      It was great to see you and Mr. Lefty and your brother last night. Great recap too. Yeah, I don’t think Slater had a ball hit to him last night. Why Ryder was playing LF last night is beyond me. Is this becoming an organizational thing? Playing players out of position? You would think after 10 years of not having an everyday LF’er, the Giants would have figured it out and signed a veteran LF’er to play everyday; not three days in a row, then get platooned.

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    Haven’t done one of these in a long time. Here’s my best guess:

    NL Power Rankings

    Team……..Overall…..R/RA….Last 10
    ———————————————–
    Nationals…..21-9……6.3/4.5…7-3
    Cubs………..16-14….5.0/4.6….4-6
    Dodgers……17-14….4.7/3.5….7-3
    Rockies…….19-12….4.7/4.6….5-5
    Cardinals…..15-14….4.3/4.2….6-4
    DBacks……..18-14….4.9/4.2….4-6
    Mets…………14-15….5.2/5.4….6-4
    Reds…………16-14….5.3/4.7….6-4
    Pirates………14-16….3.8/4.3….6-4
    Brewers…….15-16….4.8/4.7….5-5
    Marlins………12-17….4.4/4.8….2-8
    Phillies……….12-17…4.5/4.5….2-8
    Braves………11-17….4.5/5.4….5-5
    Giants……….11-20….3.4/5.3….4-6
    Padres………12-20….3.7/5.2….4-6

    • cynic

      So you’re saying we have a chance…

    • giantc

      Only one high payroll team down at the bottom. Very little depth for an organization with so many resources. I am rooting for the Nats if the Giants continue to play like this. I know that Dusty drove many of nuts at times but he has been to the playoffs a million times with no ring — would like to see them best the Cubs and Dusty can retire with that ring as a manager.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Sounds good to me too. #Natitude ( that Bud is for you, Matthew )

        • Matthew

          I heart the Nats this year…but the Eaton loss is eatin’ at me

          • Foothills A-rye-o

            for sure. But all will suffer one loss or another during the season; or in Giants case, multiple clusterfucks of oblivion.

    • Matthew

      Look at those amazing Dodgers! Lost 2 of 3 to the lowly Giants, but raced up the Footy “I ❤ Chart”!!!!!

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        So you don’t think they are very good and don’t have enoughc talent in the org to acquire additional impact pieces or are you just being “Playful Matty”?

        • Matthew

          Mostly playful , but also know how you continue to LOVE those bridesmaids from down south.

          (Just kinda wondering whether I’m supposed to look at it as a snapshot of today, or potential…or both…seems malleable to fit your fandom!)

          • Foothills A-rye-o

            !! Snapshot of today, looking forward !!

            Who is going to win division and have best shot to get into WS? I say Nats Cubs Dodgers have the strength, and Rockies Cardinals and Diamondbacks are looking wild too. Don’t forget, I love me some Rocky Diamondback too!

  • DrLefty

    Word of the day: kerfuffle

    (This is why you’ve gotta love Steph Curry)

    https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/861227921658191874

  • cabbie

    Folks, i’m starting to worry that maybe, just maybe, our 2017 Giants aren’t very good.

  • Matthew

    Welcome to Finnerty’s Drown Their Sorrows Sunday here on TWG. I am waiting with great anticipation to in-game tweets by an ever increasingly annoyed Efrain as he and Surf do car bombs all day.

    Here’s how I see 2017 shaping up: the organization knew they had to have everything fall perfectly for 2017 to be successful:

    Starting pitching – at minimum, hold to career course and hope for a Cain rejuvenation. If he didn’t, insert Blach. Actual results – Dirt bikes and Sybils

    Relievers – build out a core four, anchored by Melancon. Actual results – Smith’s UCL meant scrambling deck chairs on the SS Minnow

    Batting Order and field – Span finds youthful energy, MacParker are serviceable, everyone else plays to form. Actual results – Span looks to be toast, the left field car crash is epic. We miss Blanco and Pagan. The tryouts prove: No, America Most Certainly Does Not Have Talent. The injuries to Posey and Crawford early cost games, and dominos. We can be reminded daily that there is one Crawford, and he’s THE ultimate field leader in every way.

    There is no sense in dealing from a position of weakness. Evans is in a terrible position, much of his and his bosses makings…they sold their souls for the titles, and recent FA signings, there is no quick fix, other than players over performing…which is not happening.

    So, some fans are showing daily frustration at Bochy, at Gorkys, at Morse or Stubbs or Ramirez or Morris or Next Target Up.

    It’s just a decent team playing terrible baseball…with nothing but themselves to dig out. I’m not expecting it, and will be pleasantly surprised if they do well.

    • Bapah

      Negatively Positive.

      I like it. (as a philosophical position)

      On second thought, it could be positively negative. Ah, who is care?

    • giantc

      In bad seasons I like to look for things that provide hope for the future. For this team it will be Arroyo and continued development of Strickland Law and hopefully Okert (had first really poor outing yesterday). I hope Blach’s first bad start as a Giant was just a blip and that Beede gets a taste later in the year if they trade Cueto for an OF prospect. I would also like to see Shaw advance quickly. Anyone that hits for any power in Richmond has real power. Arroyo only hit 3 HRs in Richmond.

      I also like to complain about Bochy. 😀

      • VINTAGEBLAK aka Baldheadslik1

        in bad seasons i like to complain!

    • JStreet

      2018 = even year. We enjoy this beautiful sport.

    • Foothills A-rye-o

      Say that’s pretty good. Darn good post. A team with a talented core playing like caca.

      I used to defend Bochy with 3 in 5 and Span with his baseball card, but it’s all lemons.

      Ice-T?

  • Matthew

    By the way, what exactly does ” healthy, but not ready” mean?

    And, please look around this landscape and tell me who IS “ready”?

    I don’t care what his batting average is (that’s for a Pete), I want him in left field now and until further notice. If for no other reason : what do we have in him?

    • DrLefty

      I agree. I don’t really see what it could hurt. The Giants’ prospects for competing this year? Mac’s development? He’s 26. It’s this year or move on to the next guy, IMHO.

      Plus, even for PJ: When Mac hits one, it stays hit. He’s got legit power.

    • giantc

      Couldn’t agree more — Ruggiano will not be on the team next year. Let’s see what Mac can do. A September call-up is not a real test because a lot of teams have their minor leaguers up as well.

      • Sgbssfg

        Given that minimal effort on a fly ball in the 2nd inning by Ruggiano, I think I’d rather see Williamson in the left field. His bat will arrive soon enough.

        • paul in p.v.

          Glad somebody else noticed that – I think it was Duvall that got a free single.

          In my long-ago days, I coulda caught that one.

  • paul in p.v.

    Today, one of my favorite words:

    oleaginous
    adjective [oh-lee-aj-uh-nuh s]
    1. having the nature or qualities of oil.
    2. containing oil.

    “Oleaginous has always meant “oily, fatty, greasy” to describe plants, fruits, vegetables, fish, and stones. Oleaginous acquired its uncomplimentary sense “smarmy, unctuous” in the 19th century. Oleaginous entered English in the 17th century.”

    • Foothills A-rye-o

      I think this is a repeat word of the day – must be a fave. I had some fun with Matthew with this word. It’s an oleaginous world and we’re just shorebirds and seals living in it.

      Hey check this out – one of Jeff Beck’s from his new album. Saw live as well.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E45VRnQxflE

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    I think it’s great that the org is trying all and anybody who has potential to play passable LF in LF at Sacramento. Maybe a Duvall-lite is somewhere down there. By God, I’ve played the Duvall watch when he’s sliding, but of late he’s moved from the .214 avg. all the way up to .277 by hitting .464/.500/.929 since April 30th.

    Find another of those guys. Yo Ryder! Time to bang and just catch the ball out there.

    • paul in p.v.

      Shaw. Duvall-heavy.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Boom. Good God, they need that. Couldn’t have asked for better start. He’s en route to show up on Top 100 prospect lists.

    • Peter Johnson

      What I researched Duvall’ s 50th MLB HR in his 799th MLB at bat, was only bettered by 1 Giant player, I had to study game logs to get the answer, he hit 51 HRs in his first 796 MLB at bats, who is he ?

      • Matthew

        You poor guy. This Duvall thing has you going Full Charlie Babbitt

        • Peter Johnson

          I Like comparing players stats , have done it since I was a kid, very fun and informative .

          • Matthew

            Stats are fun. No doubt. I like them, too. But…Duvall is gone. He was traded into a perfect situation – bad team able to take a chance, and it worked.

            Perhaps SF will stay bad enough for such a chance to be afforded some kids here that have the same success ( but AT&T will temper the stats).

            If he hadn’t be traded, this organization never would have imagined Left Field for him…not even now. Too bad, but that’s how they roll.

          • Peter Johnson

            AT&T Park is fair , for Right handers, that pull the ball, former Giant Double play combo both hit 37 HRs, career highs for both at 3rd and king .

          • giantc

            I agree with most of that but if he was still in the org i am pretty sure they would have tried him in LF by now considering they have tried everything else out there.

          • Matthew

            You’d think that, but this seasons open tryouts are driven strictly by panic mode. Duvall might well be in the Mac/Pill hamster wheel by now.

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Matt Williams?

        • Peter Johnson

          No, very slow start to his career, came up in 1987, 1st break out year was 1990

          • Matthew

            Didn’t Matt hit .199 his first year?

          • Peter Johnson

            Something like that, and only 8 HRs in about 250 at bats.

          • SonomaBeav

            Bobby Bonds.

          • Peter Johnson

            He was a leadoff hitter so got lots of at bats per season, in his his1st partial year hit fewer then 10 with over 400 at bats .

      • steve k

        willie mac?

        • Foothills A-rye-o
          • Matthew

            Willie O’Ree?

          • steve k

            we all got the blues

        • Peter Johnson

          Nope after good Rookie year, in 1959, did not have another great year until 1963, 60 -62 were not good

          • steve k

            i meant jim ray heart

          • Peter Johnson

            Nope , 52 HRs after 2 full MLB seasons , but over 1000 at bats to get them .

          • Foothills A-rye-o

            you dunn good with sum good trivia

      • 610nm

        I like this question, but am stumped. Even using the clues below about 1959 and 1963, I can’t do any better than Cepeda’s 52 HR in ’58 and ’59 involving 1208 AB. Do tell us the answer in a half hour or so, if no one can get it!

        Your question does show us that Duvall is a big thumper.

        • Peter Johnson

          I am going out right now, so I will give the answer, it was a Home run are nothing guy, went on to hit 49 HRs with the Cubs, was black balled out of MLB, after giving a white rat to a female reporter after hitting 35 HRs for the A.s in his last MLB season, Dave Kingman .

          • 610nm

            Thank you. This isn’t the first good trivia question you’ve posed for us – they are fun stuff! ’71-’74 with the Giants, and yes, he either hit them out or was out.

          • Matthew

            Dave Kingman!

    • VINTAGEBLAK aka Baldheadslik1

      cincy’s park dont trust it hell Roger Metzger or Johnnie LeMaster would be all stars there

  • VINTAGEBLAK aka Baldheadslik1

    TWRC LOLOL

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    Gigantes gotta win today. C’mon, it’s Johnny Cueto vs. Scottie Feldman.

    As for the Reds future, you saw what their #2 prospect looks like. The rest isn’t bursting with talent, but has potential. Stephenson has been on these lists for a while, but he’s a bit like Tyler Beede in upside.

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/1/31/14461816/cincinnati-reds-top-20-prospects-for-2017

    • Matthew

      Given actual talent on the top of teams rosters, there is literally no excuse for these Giants. We sit close and bitch about Moore or Samardzija or whoever…but when you look at the rotations of other teams, then ours, then look at results? This is a team wide Defecation Festival.

      Cueto v Feldman. Must win. What a quick fall from grace

  • crawnik

    Do we have a lineup yet or do the beat writers not care about posting one?

    • Matthew

      CF – skinny feel good story 5th outfielder
      IB – fan disdain target who walks a lot
      RF – wild swinging coffee freak
      C – nice guy that hits singles
      3B – happy to be here but these dudes look old
      SS – why do I have to wear this leather thing on my hand?
      2B – Bruce says ” I guess I can stick him here”
      LF – this guy is still alive?
      P – “I miss my horses”

      • 610nm

        Baby-faced 3B will still be able to think that 5 years from now!

      • crawnik

        Well then, let’s get after it. Thanks Matt.

      • paul in p.v.

        Love this Jonathan Winters lineup!

      • The Oracle

        Who feels good about Gorkys Hernandez?

  • Matthew

    I kid my cousin about his Dodgers love, but one must ask if the following guys were in the SF organization, would they have gotten such an early sustained chance in the bigs?:

    Urias, Seager, Peterson, Bellinger?

    ClutchUp and I were discussing what’s going on. He, like CC feel that the trophy years basically had its run and took everything out of them. That has merit, as SF gets every teams best shot every series.

    What is disappointing to me is this: front office “complacency” they aren’t acting like their hair is on fire. This conservative left field, and the Span center field experiment prove that.

    Big splashy signings are good (Cueto, Melancon, Samardzija), but using them as stand-alone’s made this top heavy roster end up here.

    As bad as it sounds, Efrain is right with the Yankees comparison. The gig looks over. So, keep a very small core and start over.

    • DrLefty

      I heard some inside gossip on Bochy’s future. The source is a friend of my brother’s who works for another major league team but is from NorCal and a huge Giants fan, so he hears stuff. You can take it for what it’s worth (this isn’t exactly Woodward and Bernstein), but it all makes some sense:

      1. Bochy’s health issues are more worrying than they’re letting on publicly.
      2. They brought Phil Nevin in for similar reasons that the Warriors brought in Mike Brown (concerned about Kerr’s health, wanted someone ready to step in if needed).
      3. There’s a possibility he’ll retire after this season.
      4. He’s told the Giants that he’ll only finish out his contract if they remain a contending team. He doesn’t feel he has a rebuilding season(s) in him at this point.

      As I said, this all makes sense to me. He’s over 60 with a bad family history and has had three heart incidents requiring hospitalization in barely two years. (If I were his wife, I’d be screaming blue murder that he should retire.) He’s not necessarily the best guy to bring along a young, raw, developing roster, either, and I can appreciate at his stage of life that it wouldn’t sound fun to him.

      For myself, I want him to make his own Hall of Fame speech, not have Brett or Tim Flannery make it posthumously. And I don’t mean to be flip at all in saying that.

      • Matthew

        Interesting, and another reason why I find Evans utterly unacceptable. (Again, CU disagrees with me on this)

        Perhaps it’s optics, and I’m being unfair, but stick with me here; when Sabean was the true GM, and stretches like this occurred, he showed his passion. He was pissed. He would bark – at the press, at the players, at the dog on his lawn.

        Evans is a nice guy. May be the perfect neighbor. But he’s working in a competitive pit of Rollerball. When he bumps into someone, he says ” excuse me, I’m sorry”. Sabean throws elbows.

        If Bochy only has this last run in him, he deserves – he earned – a huge final push from owners and management.

        What has he been given? Span, Gorkys, Ruggiano, Hill, Span, Nunez, Morse, Stubbs, Ramirez, Henny Youngman, Betty White, Abe Vigoda.

        I really, really, truly, totally dislike the job Bobby Evans is doing…regardlesss of who is “making the call”, he has the title. He doesn’t have the sack

        • Bapah

          The Reverend is not my idea of a “win or else” kinda guy SabeySabes was/is either.

          • Matthew

            TO continues to believe Evans is a Nobody Figurehead. Perhaps that has basis in some fact, but we don’t know.

            I instead believe he was a good soldier who got this chance, and is in way over his head. Oh, he knows baseball. He can somewhat see talent. But, he is a numbers crunching administrator who lacks both fire and nuanced understanding.

            He may keep this team spiraling downward for awhile

        • crawnik

          I suppose you need a Snickers bar too?

        • The Oracle

          None of us have any idea how decisions are made. Evans is just a convenient, safe scapegoat for you because he isn’t one your heroes you associate with the winning years, although he was involved in those as well. To believe that Sabean and Bochy are innocent victims of the whims of the all powerful Evans is just your fantasy.

          • Matthew

            Just my fantasy? Your opinion. What is his title? Responsibilities? Either he has the sack I mentioned to do the job, or he doesn’t.

            As for “heroes”…. well, no shit, Sherlock. They won 3 titles. Titles are results of which heroes are borne. Not your shtick, but it’s how sports work.

          • The Oracle

            Absolutely, but in your case the emotional hero worship gets in the way of looking at things objectively. And even if you don’t like how a decision turned out, what does it have to do with “sack?” Actually, the Giants’ moves have become bolder in the last couple of years. Trading fan favorite Duffy and signing Cueto and Melancon for big money were quite sackish moves

          • Matthew

            I know in your entirely black and white world, you fail to acknowledge what we say that you decide to disregard , because it doesn’t bolster your point. I’ve criticized Bochy, Posey, and a full laundry list of those you consider my “heroes”… but I don’t stubbornly and continually deride them every moment. I think Posey will get in the Hall. You don’t. Because of my stance, you lie and say I worship him and fawn over his every move. It’s simply not true.

            I have been very critical of Bochy in many ways. Not like you. Not like many. But, you lie and twist it into some weird claim of hero worship there as well.

            You simply want to argue as sport. I get it. It is probably how you go through every day life. I negotiate, convince, motivate, train, fire fight, get people to consensus and “yes” all day. Perhaps we fit our roles perfectly in life. My optimism isn’t blind, and you know it isn’t if you care to pay attention.

            Bobby Evans was hired to continue a very successful legacy. He may be given constraints. I don’t feel he has the attitude to demand the autonomy or authority to make things work around the constraints. Personally – I get in trouble because I make decisions in my bubble that I know will piss off the CEO, but it’s a bet. It’s a bet on me, my team, and that if it goes as I expect, then I manage the hell out of, my boss will be fine…means to an end. My observation is that Evans is not anything like that. So, I’m personalizing. You’re a pro at that on here, so I expect you understand.

          • The Oracle

            When did I ever say Posey wouldn’t be a Hall of Famer? What I said was that he wasn’t a lock after just six seasons.

          • Matthew

            You’re a peach of a guy. After all of the twisting of my words, that’s what you got? I twisted yours? Now you’re saying what, exactly? Dude….my God, you are a caveman lawyer

          • The Oracle

            I’m saying what I said then. To be a Hall of Famer, he has to keep going. Six seasons doesn’t do it.

          • DrLefty

            I would be interested to know how the decision to trade Duvall in 2015 was made and by whom. We all remember Sabean’s “God bless ’em, not ready to be here” quote (about Panik and Duvall) in 2014, so that may be a little window.

            I suspect a lot of what’s happening now as to the outfield is related to some finger-pointing about the Duvall trade. Baggarly’s mentioned it this week, how the front office knows they majorly screwed up there (it’s not just us crabby people on the blog still thinking about it). That clearly influenced their decision to run with Parker/Williamson for LF this year; Evans said so in so many words.

            Anyway, it seems like a domino effect, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are different opinions and memories about who made which decisions. (Blame Evans for not going after a left fielder this past winter? Well, when that decision was clearly made in light of them feeling stung by the aftermath of the Duvall trade, it’s all connected.)

          • The Oracle

            Yep.

        • DrLefty

          I think some of the thrift store signings and call-ups this year (let’s throw Neil Ramirez and Bryan Morris in with all the “left fielders,” too) have been dreadful. But it’s also fair to go a bit further back in the memory and point out some of the similar moves Sabean made in the ’00’s. We probably could come up with quite a list to rival this year’s.

          IIRC, a lot of Giants fans were pretty unhappy when Sabean and Bochy got contract extensions in 2009. They weren’t anyone’s heroes then.

          Some of it has to do with how much money ownership is willing to turn loose. Some of it is Sabean’s biases (veterans are always better). Some of it may be inexperience on the part of Evans (stung by what happened with Duvall, and also loyal to his own organization guys like Parker and Mac). But I tend to agree with TO that it’s not all one person, though I do question whether Evans is the right guy for the job.

      • crawnik

        Myself and Mrs. Crawnik agree 100 percent on this. Mrs. Crawnik grew up a Padres fan in SD and witnessed Bochy as a manager there. She knows how Bochy operates. He is a good strategist when he has the right pieces in play, but his theories and strategies for the team he has now doesn’t work, injuries aside. You’re only as strong as your weakest player.

        Remember the WS years when Bochy would have his starters go 7 innings, an he had a bullpen that he could rely on with his mixing and matching magic? We had a bench with some pop and again, Bochy could maximize the talent he had then. Bochy is trying to apply the same strategies to this team, and that talent isn’t here. Buster, Craw, Panik, Belt, Pence understand his strategy. So does Cain and Bum. Every year you have to figure out how to apply new strategies instead of going with the same ‘ol, same ‘ol.

      • paul in p.v.

        I don’t work in MLB – but I suggested this yesterday. Bad pun – but his heart’s not in it anymore.

      • Sgbssfg

        On the recap, Javy said something about how playing poorly for Boch was like disappointing your Dad. Would like to see him retire a winner.

        • 22’sSweetSwing

          Retire a winner? Good luck with that. This team is so bad they are threatening to bring his overall record below .500 (1800 w 1777 L). Like most guys who love and only know what they are doing he should have walked away at the top when he had a chance.

      • steve k

        hey doc, don’t you think wotus would be in line for a shot to manage, and not nevin?

        • channelclemente

          If Wotus were a MLB quality manager, I suspect he would already be doing so.

          • Bapah

            He has been, but turned them down. I heard it was because he was waiting for this one.

        • DrLefty

          I asked my brother about that. He said the job might be offered to Wotus or Righetti as a courtesy but that they’d probably turn it down. Wotus is ten years older than Nevin and only 5-6 years younger than Bochy.

          FWIW, Kuiper said back when Nevin was hired that it was to be the heir-apparent.

          • steve k

            didn’t wotus interview as recently a last year for a managerial job? i can’t believe he wouldn’t want a shot. rags, on the other hand, i see as a pitching guru only.

      • The Oracle

        That would be the best thing for all parties.

      • I heard the same thing on your #2 comment. The rest of them are pretty clear with just the eyeball test alone. I get frustrated with Bochy but admire him tremendously. But it seems he manages now with a guarded restraint considering if he gets too worked up that could be not a good thing for his health.

    • Foothills A-rye-o

      Those 4 guys? Absolutely. They were knocking on the door with battering rams. Higher tiered prospects than anybody Giants have had since Belt, Posey, Bumgarner, Lincecum.

      • Giants54

        Yeah it’s silly question. Pablo was another up at just 21. Cain just 20. And now Arroyo.

    • The Oracle

      I know people love hearing about Duvall, but that trade had a major impact on the organization, both directly and indirectly. Directly, they blew it by ignoring what he had done in the minors, not giving him any kind of a real chance and losing a guy who could’ve been a mainstay in their lineup. That’s obvious.

      But indirectly, that trade also affected what they did this past off season. Knowing they blew it with Duvall, they were determined not to let it happen again, hence the Parker/Williamson plan. Unfortunately, neither of those two had Duvall’s minor league track record, so the idea that they could solve the LF problem that way was a risk, a risk I don’t think they would’ve taken if it hadn’t been for Duvall. Maybe Williamson will get it together ultimately make it seem like a good decision, but things aren’t trending in that direction. I don’t fault them, however, for taking that risk. Their biggest mistake remains counting on Gorkys Hernandez to be a major league, Gregor Blanco-type player. That was never going to happen.

      There’s nothing for the front office to do right now. Acting like their “hair is on fire” isn’t going to get them anywhere. This isn’t a good team. Panicking isn’t going to improve the situation. And finally, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t both keep every good player and truly start over. You have to give up quality to get quality.

      • Matthew

        Not “panicking”… but, the last two off seasons were Lipstick. Big dollar signings as the foundational positions aged, deteriorated. Span was a terrible decision ( injured, north of 30, bad arm, no speed…as a CF?). Left Field was a roulette wheel. They are NOW stuck in a situation where they HAVe to eithe panic or retool. No in between.

        • The Oracle

          The problem is that they were forced into signings like that because of a subpar minor league system and not being able to recognize, in Duvall’s case at least, the value they actually had down there. Most of those minor leaguers, of course, were drafted/signed while Sabean held the title you believe to be the final word on responsibility.

          • Matthew

            Duvall was traded for a necessary arm in a pennant race, and it failed. I understand why they did it. Duvall blossomed. It happens. Beyond that fishbowl trade, Evans is captaining a poor period. Each GM comes in to prior admins decisions (Evans was IN that admin, by the way…), so blaming prior is a weak excuse to the reality…he’s had some years…not good , and I fully expect it to get worse

          • The Oracle

            I understand why they did it as well, but it was obviously a bad decision. Bad decisions have an impact.

      • livfreerdi

        If they missed on Duvall, it was because they got tired of seeing the very long line of AAA outfielders with big numbers completely spit the bit in the bigs. So one of them finally came through. Now they’re back to normal with OF call-ups who can’t play.

        • The Oracle

          They hadn’t any minor leaguers with Duvall’s numbers. Who are you talking about?

    • livfreerdi

      If they have a group of guys who done while in (what should be) their prime years, there are many more questions for the organization, including their trainers and vaunted dietitian and psychologist. The idea that a title run that ended 3 years ago “took everything out of them” is treating them like high-schoolers again. They’ve had time to sleep in.

      • Matthew

        I agree…it sure seems like a passive training staff, and way too many nagging injuries. I get it’s ultimately players responsibility, but just the fact they had a fat “Strength and Conditioning” coach is absurd.

        • paul in p.v.

          They need a yoga instructor, Mateo.

          • Matthew

            Do it, Paul!

          • paul in p.v.

            Crikey, I’d do it for meal money. Well, hotels too!

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    Another Cueto trade target mentioned by Crawnik below is Houston’s Teoscar Hernandez. Has hit .250/.358/.571 with 4 HRs in 67 PAs for Fresno. He may have just gotten called up, again.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13066&position=OF

    • Bapah

      Wouldn’t Cueto bring 2-3 near-ready/ready guys in return?

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        Sure could. It would probably only be one if the prospect is the caliber of Kyle Tucker – star potential there.

        But let’s say as 2-3 player package could include Teoscar Hernandez, Daz Cameron, and some C+ pitching prospect.

  • RobDeer

    What’s with the 4pm east coast start time on a Sunday?

    • Sgbssfg

      They are performing an annual cleaning of the Skyline chili pot?

      • Foothills A-rye-o

        awesome ! sounds like “bowl of brown” from Game of Thrones fame.

      • Matthew

        Oops…stepped on you. My bad

        • Sgbssfg

          Great minds, …

    • 12xu

      They mentioned on the radio broadcast Friday night that there’s a marathon being run in Cincinnati that will end at 12 noon – 1:00 near G.A. Ballpark so the city wants to give time for the marathon people to clear out before the Reds game fans arrive.

      • Matthew

        A marathon in Cincy gives me visions of a bunch of guys that look like Norm grabbing at bowls of Skyline chili at checkpoints instead of Gatorade.

        • 12xu

          LOL. Reminds me of the line he said when he walked in to Cheers and somebody asked him, “What’s shakin’?” He replied, “Both chins and all four cheeks.”

    • paul in p.v.

      fubar

    • Bapah

      3 in Cincy. Right?

      • 12xu

        No, 4 p.m. in Cincinnati. I thought Cincinnati was only 2 hrs. ahead of us, but they’re in the eastern time zone.

  • 12xu

    Kershaw upset that he didn’t get a strike call last night, does a pirouette. Could you imagine what the HP ump’s reaction would be to any other pitcher:
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1361009683/ladsd-kershaw-disagrees-with-umpires-call/?game_pk=490550

  • Foothills A-rye-o

    Something else to think about regarding Cueto – from MLBTR and KR.

    “The Giants, off to a miserable start, look like sellers in the making. That’s even more true when considering the luxury tax, Rosenthal points out. The Giants exceeded the threshold in the each of the previous two years, and doing so for a third straight season would force them to pay a 50 percent tax (up from their current 30 percent). But if San Francisco rids itself of enough money to get under the limit, it would reset the tax to 20 percent. Trading right-hander Johnny Cueto would help the Giants’ cause from a financial standpoint, though his looming opt-out clause could complicate his market, observes Rosenthal.”

    • 12xu

      I like that phrase, “sellers in the making.” Giants could use that as a marketing slogan beginning now.

      • The Oracle

        Like I said, “Embrace the Disgrace.”

        • paul in p.v.

          Yeah, and embrace a 45% decline in the value of your tickets.

    • paul in p.v.

      I’m confused – the ‘looming opt-out’ is the same as, ‘He’ll be an FA this winter,” no? In other words, he’s a rental?? That’s not news, or unusual.

      • South City Jim

        Agree. Giants could pull a Yankees Chapman thing and trade him before the deadline then re-sign him. I just hope his blister doesn’t impact his value.

      • livfreerdi

        Or he could continue to stink and force the Giants to eat some contract. He has all the cards, thanks to the ridiculous opt-out

        • paul in p.v.

          You seem to be angry or something.

  • paul in p.v.
    • channelclemente

      60-65% Macron.

      • paul in p.v.

        What a flippin’ relief, in what seems like a world of bad news. Including our hapless Gigantes.

        • channelclemente

          Well, the Giants are just the natural cycle of things. I’d like to think a blatant fascist like Le Pen is an aberration.

          • paul in p.v.

            No comment.

  • The Oracle

    Instead of anger, maybe there should be a realization that’s what’s happening is part of the natural cycle of sports.

    1. A team develops good, young players that lead it to success;
    2. As the success continues, the team rewards those players with expensive contracts which will likely cover years when the players are declining (Lincecum, Cain, Pagan, etc.);
    3. Those expensive contracts and rising payroll limit the moves that can be made;
    4. The continued success negatively impacts draft positioning, limiting the team’s opportunity to re-stock with young talent;
    5. Being in the race every year results in deadline trades of minor leaguers, some of which might have been successful if they had stayed;
    6. Decision making is understandably influenced by loyalty to those who were responsible for that success;
    7. The team inevitably declines.
    8. The realization finally sets in that it’s time to start over.

    It’s not terrible. It’s the expected cost of winning. Nothing lasts forever.

    • paul in p.v.

      Yup. But the suddenness of the decline has been shocking.

      • The Oracle

        We had a half season preview last year.

        • paul in p.v.

          Good point.

    • Matthew

      All true.

      In baseball, however, draft position isn’t always uber critical. What you may also add is a complacency in the scouting area. It’s pretty clear that they made a much higher percentage of poor picks than other teams.

      The Dodgers have picked late just like SF. They picked better AND we’re more aggressive internationally. SF was passive, complacent, or lacked judgment in general outside of pitching. Crawford was an exception. Belt is what was expected. Posey and Bum were very high picks. So, I continue to believe their scouting staff has made way too many mistakes

      • The Oracle

        True as well, but picking higher obviously gives a team a better chance, especially at finding truly elite players.

  • channelclemente

    Mets Matt Harvey pulled from today’s start and suspended for an unnamed transgression of team rules.

    • South City Jim

      Yeah. I’d rather have him pitch today.
      Now he probably pitches against G’s on Wednesday.

      • channelclemente

        Maybe voicing that opinion was what gt him suspended.

        • South City Jim

          That’s a good one!

        • DrLefty

          Nope. He put a, um, sex toy (begins with a “d”) into a teammate’s locker as a prank, where it “photobombed” the guy’s postgame interview and was then tweeted out to the Mets’ 900K followers on the team’s Twitter account. The Mets apparently are not amused.

          • channelclemente

            After Maddoff, you’d think they could take a joke. But then after Maddoff, their sense of humor is probably exhausted.

          • The Oracle

            The Mets have a team rule against doing that? Boy, those guys are really detailed.

          • DrLefty

            I had the same reaction–“Show me THAT rule”!

          • paul in p.v.

            Count me amused, even lmao.

  • channelclemente

    I wonder if Bochy will become one of Seaver’s best customers.

    https://seavervineyards.com/

  • channelclemente
  • Great Recap Lefty. Brilliant idea to make the focus the River Cats. I am glad they won.