by
Greek Giant
Today the Giants hired Jose Alguacil and Phil Nevins to replace the recently departed Roberto Kelly (third base coach) and Bill Hayes (first base coach).
Nevin, the former first round draft pick from Cal State Fullerton,  played for Bruce Bochy during his tenure with the San Diego Padres. He was also the manager of the Arizona Diamondbacks’ Triple-A Reno Aces in the past three seasons. Jose Alguacil managed the Sacramento River Cats, the Giants AAA team, last season. Alguacil also played in the Giants system for six seasons as an infielder then before returning as a roving instructor.
These are interesting moves for a number of reasons. Phil Nevin, the ever-intense player has a reputation for aggressive managing and is likely to be encouraged to take that aggressive approach to his third base coaching duties. The Giants were ranked 14th in stolen bases per game last year with .49. That’s middle of the pack alright. There are no real statistics to measure the cautious approach Roberto Kelly applied to his duties. He was not a fan favorite replacing the legendary Tim Flannery. My all accounts Kelly was a great coach and better person but perception has two lenses: the fan’s point of view and the front office perspective. It is rumored the Giants were not happy with their fairly conservative style on the base paths.
Base running is arguably the most under-rated part of baseball. If you watched game 7 of the 2016 World Series you saw what an impact it can have on the game. In my mind the single most important play of that epic battle was the tag from first base on a long fly ball to the wall at center field with nobody out in the tenth inning by Albert Almora Jr. By advancing to second the Indians were forced to walk Anthony Rizzo, pitch to Ben Zobrist, and the rest is history.
The Giants are not a home run-hitting team. For them to succeed offensively they must be aggressive on the bases and execute good situational hitting. The logic behind these new coaching hires dictates that the Giants are trying to change the passive, station-to-station approach that characterized their underwhelming performance last year. Teams like the Royals and Cubs demonstrated great base running instincts in the past two World Series. Indeed, in both World Series-winning games, the winning runs were set up or scored via aggressive, downright daring base running.
The hiring of Jose Alguacil is another bold move. Since he managed the River Cats last year the Venezuelan figures to be a key figure in dealings with younger players like Jarret Parker and Mac Williamson. The Giants are hoping that a shake-up in the coaching staff will proffer a more electric result on the overall offensive production for a team whose core every day players are at their peaks and whose windows to World Series rings will not be open forever.
Top 50 FA’s and predictions that invariably are dead wrong. Melancon to the Giants 4/52m?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Seems like they lasted the Giants for at least half of those guys. Joe Blanton? Really? Jon Jay?
John Jay….Denard Span 2.0
I see more Blanco in Jay
My best buddy Cards fan can’t stand Jay’s game…bad routes to the ball, soft at the plate.
Sounds like Rajai Davis, not Blanco.
What an independent declaration!
Interesting. They have Giants signing Melancon and Reddick. I mentioned Reddick before, but the price tag seemed like something the Giants would avoid.
Not sure about that Cespedes to Dodgers deal…
I’ve actually wondered if the Dodgers would go after Cespedes. That New York Daily News piece last week mentioned the Giants but not the Dodgers. But the Dodgers need a RH slugger just as badly as the Giants do, especially if they dump Puig somewhere.
I really hope that the Giants do not go after Reddick — I think he would really struggle in the NL West and AT&T.
Plus the article said his defense has fallen off. We don’t need any more “his best days are behind him” guys in the outfield, thanks. We have plenty.
Small sample size last season showed as much.
Maybe Cubans leave a bad after taste. Like some old rancid salsa…..
AT&T not ideal for a L power guy and G’s already LH enough. I can’t see Reddick.
Sean Rodriquez though might be an affordable possibility. He’d bring some RH power, can play LF or 1b.
I was on Melancon but have come to the notion of going all out for Melancon. Jansen is nearly 3 years younger and has one dominant pitch that is one of the best in baseball. His K rate is outstanding and IMO he’s *the* most dominant RP in baseball (other than maybe Andrew Miller). Plus, signing him will weaken their most difficult opponent. The Giants have a lot of other excellent pieces in place so losing the 1st round pick should not be a big issue. I would not be upset by any means with Melancon as a consolation prize, but Jansen is more dominant and he would be close to Melancon’s current age by the time his contract is up.
If the Giants do nothing else this offseason than sign Jansen then I think it’s a *great* offseason. Oh, and go ahead and kick the tires on Turner just to drive up his price for LA to resign him while you’re at it.
Not a bad idea.
Reddick’s injuries have taken a toll.. pass
Melancon yes, Reddick there is zero reason for.
Great piece GG.
I find it interesting that accomplished, young AAA managers are being hired to the staff. If Bochy decided to step down for some mysterious reason, the internal options for replacement is a long line…..
Bam-Bam, Wo, Nevin, Jose, Decker all have the Chops in the lower levels to justify a hire.
Interesting times indeed.
You figure if Wotus is next in line, then Nevin or Augie becomes the bench coach, and you keep the line moving. It’s actually a smart way to do things. Bochy’s not going to be there forever. Ten years is already a long time.
No one else seems to want to hire Wotus as a manager. Maybe there’s a reason? Some people are better at assisting than being in charge.
I couldn’t help but wonder the same thing. Maybe they attribute it all to Bochy? There must be something there because Wotus becoming a manager has gained minimal traction. From the outside he looks abundantly qualified, but other teams do not share that sentiment apparently.
Maybe Bochy is telling everyone that 2016 was all Wotus’ idea.
Maybe he is satisfied. Like Rags is also never gonna manage.
No, he interviewed in Colorado. He wanted the job, but it’s hard to argue Black isn’t a better choice coming off a 1 year vacation.
Wotus interviewed THIS time around? Where was that published?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ron-wotus
It was widely reported. Here is the easiest way to look it up for me.
I think Wo’ may get passed up. Always the bridesmaid…..
you put bam bam on that list too?
He got rave reviews for his work managing Curacao during the WBC.
Jus’ Sayin’
God, I miss baseball…
I feel like a fish out of water. I gave up TV this year, and went to MLB.TV. Now that baseball is over, I feel like I’m trying to breath vacuum.
Candidate for Featured Post !
As an indicator of middle relief (non closer) effectiveness, which teams’ staff led MLB in holds (i.e. number of times a pitcher comes into the game in a save situation, pitches at least 1/3 inning, does not surrender the lead, and does not finish the game)?
Serra bested the Prunes 48-13 …
College Football and those that bet the over/under: Auburn beat Vanderbilt 23-16
There was a play near the end of the game where an Auburn running back had the ball and nothing in front of him but the end zone. He fell down. Game over. Chortle…
Players who got qualifying offers.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/11/07/qualifying-offers-jose-bautista-edwin-encarnacion/93432594/
Krukow is on the list of nominees for the Hall of Fame’s Ford Frick award. Also on the list is Bill King. According to Schulman, Krukow said “I don’t think I”m worthy to be included on the same list as Bill King, to be honest.” I agree with Krukow.
You went way out on a limb there TO.
You seem the sort of fellow who would use a nail set for a crucifixion.
Or a Makita, Stan.
Isn’t Hawk Harrelson also on the list?
Yes
Oh Gawd please no….
Put it on the board! Yes!
King was awesome doing football and basketball but I found him to be rather ordinary doing baseball, sitting there reading stats, not that interesting. He must have loved baseball but he was better broadcasting the other sports.
“My all accounts Kelly was a great coach and better person but perception
has two lenses: the fan’s point of view and the front office
perspective. It is rumored the Giants were not happy with their fairly
conservative style on the base paths.”
I think Kelly might be a great person, but he is probably the worst third base coach I have ever seen. He had two years to get better and if anything he got more tentative and worse.
Billy Hayes was terrible too — earlier in the year there was a pick-off play at first base and he never saw it coming because he was staring at the batter and was not positioned properly which allowed the second base to sneak in and he totally missed it.
forget ‘probably’. kelly was easily, the worst third base coach i’ve ever seen. granted, that only covers 50+ years.
hayes, i’m not sure. until recently, i thought the only job 1b coaches had was to hold the base runners equipment, until he could give it to the bat boy.
see above
Both IMO were set up for failure. Kelly was excellent at first and was asked to move.
Hayes was a “bull-pen” coach and catching coach.
Neither asked to move. Both accepted their assignments which is why they are no longer coaching first or third base.
Coaching third base takes some skill and instincts – something Kelly clearly did not possess for that job. He was fine at first base coach — not a difficult job. Did they reassign Kelly to another job in the organization for which he is better suited?
To coach first base effectively you just have to be positioned correctly and pay attention. Hayes failed at probably one of the easiest coaching jobs in all of professional sports.
So you blame Bochy?
Do I am blame Bochy? Why? Bochy is similar to a College School Principal or Chancellor. There is always somebody above somebody who actually does the hiring IE – Kelly for Flan and Hayes for Kelly. Bochy probably endorsed the move and both Roberto and Billy were both also “game for it” – but there is no BLAME to render.
Wasn’t just that.
Sounded like they both missed a lot of signs.
Is there a chance Samarzija might be asked to close?
Since there isn’t a replacement in the rotation, and since he showed two good stretches last season, and since he’s a horse that can eat 200+ innings….I doubt it.
Not necessarily if they can use Cain. Samardzija has also come out of the bullpen before.
I just don’t see that having much of a chance. Cain has given no indication in the last 3 years that he can be even serviceable.
Sure he has, it just hasn’t been predictble.
I agree. But to me I would limit Cain’s variability to 60-80 innings rather than 200. I like trying to see if you let him loose for 60 appearances and 80 -100 innings if he can’t kick some Andrew Miller like arse for 3 innings. Last year he would look great until the second time through the order than it was a forest fire.
Did you just compare Matt Cain to Andrew Miller? Did you do that with your head or with your heart?
I didn’t compare them, I would like to see if Cain couldn’t be used in that role. Like Timmy was for the 2012 playoff run. This time use Cain there all year. People forget how horrible a starter Miller was…… he got bullpenned for a reason.
Cain, if he could find it, is a heck of a lot more like Hendrickson.
ahahahaha i was thinking the same thing! Or maybe he is smoking something. lol
Sometimes, sometime not. It was hard to tell if it was conditioning or line up turns.
For my eye it was control…. he had no idea where the ball was going. Sometimes that was good; sometimes that was cookie!!!
That’s the point, location is often a matter of conditioning. For my part, I don’t know one way or the other.
the Giants are not the same team w/o consistent 200 inning types and you don’t sign a guy to a deal like they did Shark to close. Not a guy that ‘may close” successfully. You pay money to a guy you know is doing it at a certain level.
Cain is taking up a roster spot. If it’s a question of dumping Cain or exposing Gearrin to waivers, and it probably will be, dump Cain, no question.
No.
Never say never.
No.
Not yet
Zero.
Local Juco Baseball Head Coach gets support from Letters to the Editor, Press Democrat
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/6266837-181/letters-to-the-sports-editor
Nice to see San Mateo’s own Buddy Black back in baseball (Sean Payton also from San Mateo).
The Padres fired an excellent Skipper. http://www.scout.com/mlb/indians/story/1725255-storylines-rockies-name-black-as-new-manager
I’m the gift that keeps on giving.
Is there an antibiotic available?
You’re a saint, now? Write ONE blog post and…SMH
Once again…I didn’t self anoint. Google Maps did!
Perhaps making a strong offer for Lorenzo Cain is in order.
Great hot stove reporting GG.
This is the last year to think of chasing that pipe dream. After this season he’ll be on the downside.
Perfect. Contract season ahead.
Sound like Holland looked a guy you have to project 4 mos ahead and rely on his track record. 60 scouting, 18 teams, one GM, Bobby Evans.
An incentive laden 2 year deal may get this done.
He was throwing 89-90, with good extension.
He won’t need to settle for incentive laden…imo
Pass… sounds like a Timmy part two for someone willing the throw the bones. It’s really a 2018 contract like Soira and Madson. It’s not a 2017 flyer.
Just 89-90? Are you saying he isn’t fully recovered yet? His splitter fastball combo was nasty. If the Giants sign him and one of the big closers on the market (is there room for that?) that might be a good rehaul of the bullpen.
Sign Holland. Trade for Davis + Cain. Whoa. That would push payroll and move out young talent.
Cain has a full no-trade clause. But you know that already, Ryan.
Lorenzo Cain – you have to be on your game to keep up with footy!!
Matt Cain also has what is referred to in the industry as the no-value trade clause.
Lorenzo Cain would love to play for SF. I would hope.
That actually sounds pretty good if they could make it work. I am okay with trading Strickland (if we need to make some room in the bullpen) if we replace him with another better power RH arm. I think Strick is best suited as a 6th 7th inning guy but I am just not impressed with the way he utilizes his stuff. Maybe he will put it together next year.
Could put together a package with Beede as the front liner, involving Williamson and Strickland and more prospects to meet price.
At any rate, somehow getting Cain in RF and moving Pence to LF would be great.
Remember Strick was a Rule 5 guy. Trading him for anything of value is free money.
Strick’s numbers over the last couple years are very solid for a reliever too. They might be able to entice a team to take him for something of value. I just don’t like how he holds up mentally in big spots and dont like how he and Buster harness his stuff.
Joel Sherman, NY Post, reports Bobby Evans and Dick Tidrow were both there today.
I miss baseball. I’m gonna go visit my sister in Arizona and get my fall league swag on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjIT-93_rAA
It’s also good to have a Giants coach on the field who speaks Spanish, English, and baseball fluently.
Well, Roberto did that, too….I just think the team does need fresh coach voices in some cases.
Kelly struggled with the baseball part at third base, sometimes too hesitant, sometimes unclear or confusing directions for base runners, and sometimes seemed not fully prepared on scouting reports on the other team’s outfielders. His transition to 3B coach didn’t work out. I’m not sure how come. It had to be tough to follow Flannery.
Yeah, I agree. They tried to put him into a job he wasn’t cut out to handle. Probably shortsighted and probably a bit unfair to Roberto.
Sure seems that way. I read somewhere today that the Giants might find another role for Hayes. My first thought: Hey, what about Kelly?
Roberto was a good first base coach.
He was a natural there as a former base thief.
Bad Bam can drop some Dutch too.
And Japanese
Yeah, but all he used was “Alto!”
Alex reports My Guy Aramis Garcia drove in Ryder Jones in the Fall League. Ryder Jones may be My Guy too. It’s been so long ago, I forgot.
The Cubs signed Dex Fowler for 2yrs 22M last year late in the offseason and this year have given him a QO worth 17.2 M/yr. I was shocked the Cubs were able to get Fowler for 11M/yr on a short term deal last year. That was a crime. The rest of the league missed out.
For our OF I want the Giants to sign Mark Trumbo…he can have a Mike Morse type presence in the lineup (and in the OF). He isn’t a good defender but I think he would complement this lineup perfectly and can swap him out after 6 innings.
AND, think of all the Trumbo the Elephant hats we can sell!!
Got that somewhat wrong. Apparently his deal last year was 2 yrs/17M with a buyout/mutual option for this year.
I think he really wanted to be part of Cubs title. It sure paid off.
Yup, its much more fun when the games are meaningful and you are playing in October. He had to sense they had a great shot at it with that roster. Theo mixed in a few really really solid vets in Zobrist and Fowler with young superstar talent. Well constructed roster.
Yeah, but los Gigantes got Span for THREE years @ $11M per, so that’s even better!
uh – wait…
Early indications are that Durant is immeasurably better than Barnes…and Pachulia is even more immeasurably worse than Bogut. Zaza is really, really bad in every way: hands, movement, defense, rebounding…he has no business on this team. It’s making them all worse
Who else they got at the 5?
Short guys
Damian Jones, their first-round pick last June (or whenever it was) out of Vanderbilt. I haven’t followed how he’s done in the summer league and this season but his highlights video on YouTube looked good. Their other option at the 5 is JaVale McGee, whose highlights video on YouTube doesn’t look good (see “JaVale McGee top 10 stupid plays”).
Damian Jones should be able to give them what they need eventually. He is athletic and agile for a big man and good wing span. Hard to believe Pachulia is much better.
I suspect that they have figured that out; he only played 11 minutes last night.
Way too soon to write him off after 7 games.
Night all.
I’m truly trying to figure out why some of us have ideas that Matt Cain can be slotted into some important role on this team. He was a fantastic pitcher for the Giants for a very long time. He appears to be a great teammate. He seems to work very hard at his fitness, craft, etc.
But there is literally no indication that he will be able to pitch at a reasonable level. Not as a starter. Not as a closer. Not as a long man.
So he’s earned himself a short leash that may not extend past spring training.
He was good. He was healthy, mostly. Then he wasn’t healthy. He wasn’t so good. He will be healthy again, maybe this year. He will be good again, maybe.
That’s a huge part of my concern…He will be healthy again maybe never… If he is, bonus…but there is NO WAY anyone should count on that.
Again, it’s been 3 full seasons since he was remotely serviceable. I hope for him that things can go well. It cannot be counted on or expected
He wasn’t fixed until this year. He won’t be re-habbed until next year
Lots of miles on that Ford Ranger
I drive an 86 Toyota pickup. Runs like new. Just rebuilt its elbow.
Have you seen what Top Gear has done to a mid 80s Toyota? Damn thing is still running.
’88 325 convertible – just turned 165K! My baby.
Crossed the 200k mark on my Mazda Ranger on my trip south.
He’s never pitched without “Floating bodies” in his elbow. Maybe he will this year,
I’m thinking possibly sometime in the mid-2020s.
I see another Joe Blanton, resurrected with another team.
This year he was “supposed” to be healthy. He was 1 1/2 years past the elbow surgery and a year past the flexor tendon issue.
He had two offseason surgeries involving his pitching arm. He was on the DL and missed nearly two months with hamstring injuries sustained from merely throwing pitches in games.
There is no particular reason to be optimistic about him staying healthy, let alone effective.
In 2016, both Peavy and Cain were absolute nightmares the first six weeks or so. The top 3 guys were all pitching like aces and the 4-5 spots were sure losses almost every time out. It was brutal. Though both guys had their (brief) moments, Peavy made his last start in July and Cain in mid-August. Between them they made 37 starts and both had ERAs over 5.5. Clearly, waiting for them to “get it going” did not work and hurt the team.
We were told this was necessary because there were “no other options.” I’m not sure I believe that was true then, and it’s even less true now, with Blach and Suarez having proven themselves in their big league call-ups, Stratton and Blackburn already through two seasons in AAA, and Beede (and others) coming fast.
It would be bizarre to keep repeating the same thing that didn’t work in 2014, 2015, or 2016.
Might we be getting carried away about Blach prematurely? This is kind of heavily based on the game 161 performance vs. the Dodgers who are the worse anti-lefty hitters in the majors by far.
Sure. I think there’s reason to be optimistic, but there’s also reason to be skeptical until you see more. (But it was more than the game 161 start–he made several stellar relief appearances in September and in the playoffs.)
But it doesn’t matter. Blach has earned the first crack at it. Albert Suarez is still there, and he was a quite competent fifth starter for 13 starts. Behind them, in no particular order, are Beede, Andrew Suarez, Blackburn, Stratton, Slania, Gregorio, and Coonrod. Even lefty Matt Gage, who had a great year for Richmond. Those are all guys who finished 2016 in AA or AAA.
In other words, plenty of options for that fifth starter spot if they want to have an open casting call.
He was nails against everybody. Kid can pitch.
Major league debut in Coors Field: three scoreless innings, 1 H, 1 BB.
Next outing: 9 up, 9 down in Dodger Stadium.
We all remember the one vs. Kershaw–a must-win game.
4 up, 4 down in his first playoff appearance–the heart of the Cubs’ order.
Two scoreless innings for the win in an elimination playoff game.
The only blemish was his shaky start in San Diego. Otherwise, the kid doesn’t seem like a nervous type. Like, not at all.
I’m basically optimistic but let’s keep perspective here. The Dodgers are terrible against lefties, beyond the play. And who did Blach pitch to vs. the Cubs and what were their averages for the series?:
Rizzo .067 (out)
Almora .000 (out)
Montgomery .000 (out)
Russell .067 (out)
Baez .375 (single)
Contraras .667 (single)
Ross .167 (out)
Not that impressive.
I don’t think he’s really Cy Blach. Back of rotation, eat innings, maybe get you a 3.5 ERA, maybe a 4.5.
Nope. :o(
That’s why Bobby purposely bringing up Cain’s name and “improvement last season” on KNBR had me almost driving off the Sacramento causeway. The #4 (before Moore got here) and #5 slots were a joke.
The man got paid. Make him a long reliever or send him (absorbing his $$) to the Marlins in some package…because the Marlins need starters. He can be there #5 guy, since they won’t be contending. Maybe some AL team. Let him help choose his next team, if there’s no spot here.
The Indians weren’t forced to walk Rizzo. They made a staggeringly stupid mistake by walking Rizzo.
It was a solid baseball move
Well, so did the Giants, but to be fair, they didn’t actually do it on purpose.
If choosing between pitching to Rizzo or Zobrist (with a RHP) that’s an easy choice. Problem is it was obvious Shaw didn’t have it. It was the right move. If Zobrist hits that ball about another foot to the right it’s a genius move that leads to a 5-4-3 GIDP. No way on earth I’m pitching to Rizzo in that situation with a RHP.
There was only one out. Rizzo scored the series-winning run. The Cubs were out of competent relievers and it wasn’t exactly shocking the Indians got a run in the bottom of the 10th. But because they chose to walk Rizzo, they Cubs got two and one run wasn’t enough for the Indians.
Only thing I could find on Holland showcase (KC newspaper):
As the workout began, Holland’s fastball topped out at 90-91 mph, according to scouts in attendance. He only elected to throw fastballs and sliders during the workout. Holland, who is represented by agent Scott Boras, is just 13 months removed from Tommy John surgery and will hope his velocity returns over the next four months.
At his peak, Holland’s average fastball velocity sat around 95-96 mph. That velocity decreased in 2015, when he pitched through a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow. The injury eventually led to Tommy John surgery in October 2015, which led to a season away from baseball after the Royals opted against tendering him a contract. Holland never signed with another team, deciding to spend the season rehabbing his elbow.
Not much else you would find in the Joel Sherman NY Post piece – other than the mention that Bobby Evans was the only GM in attendance amidst a crowd of about 60 baseball personnel. He was seated next to his pitching guru guy, Dick Tidrow.
So apparently, the Evans RV has been stalking Holland instead.
Scout Ryan…Oh ye of little faith.
Evans was pulling this behind the RV, so the RV is still parked in front of Melancon’s house. Sabey Sabes volunteered to continue the wooing, while Bobby and Tidrow were checking out Holland.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/89d2ed40f24d2462ebbd3cd06113e03a2438aaad502097e667712c75e62b3b86.jpg
No
Holland doesn’t sound too promising after all.
Patience, grasshopper.
Patience? Uh, hasn’t that been what we’ve all been saying about Matt Cain for 2 years? Forget patience. I want a no-doubt, lock-down closer for our team.
Melancon! 🙂
I would still sign him, as long as Melancon is signed too. It would give Holland time to gain strength, then it’s time to really shorten the game. 2 years; perhaps with a 1 year player opt out.
Back to the drawing board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynN9AeY8IGc
While taking mom to appt. the other day, this song came on the jazz station that I set the tuner to. Mom recognized it and we talked about how her mom probably had it playing on the radio back in the day…c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Skao81GIQ
my folks (since i’m a generation, or so, older than you) loved glenn miller, and all the big bands.
ahhh yes, sentimental journey we are on 🙂
and perhaps Jumping at the Woodside my personal favorite!
When my uncle passed away no one want his collection of LP’s from that era. So they ended up with me. All the big bands. I enjoyed that sound.
Listening to part of this I hear the same cord progression from a song on Sound of Music. In the number were the kids go to bed. I learn something new every day.
ayup!
AZ Fall Ball
Aramis-Cole-Ryder go 6-11 2R 2RBI
Not bad in a game where the Cubs #1 prospect is playing; for the Giants Aramis Garcia is their top rep as their #6 prospect. He is still two years out from the MLB even IF he can keep progressing, but this is a good sign.
I like Hunter Cole better as a prospect. Garcia’s actions behind the plate and at the plate looked too stiff to my eye. He’s in the C+ prospect range and really needs to hit because I don’t think he’ll ever rate as a strong defensive catcher – although he does have a strong arm. I recall him using a high setup which allows him to unload ball quicker, but not ideal for framing and smothering the plate. A guy I’d definitely rate higher than the MLB.com list has him is Austin Slater. He makes more sense as the 6th best prospect in the system to me.
Catcher-Whisperer-Ryan … you know the subtle mechanics that I do not see; thanks.
At the risk of starting a cyber-donnybrook … Slater could be the Giants Zobrist as he has lots of high level time in the OF and 2B. I hope they give him an honest shot at that in ST.
That might be like saying Tyler Beede could be the Giants Roger Clemens 🙂
But having a competent 4th outfielder develop from C+ prospect Slater is a still a good thing.
Tim Tebow had the walk-off hit! How about that?
Span CF
Belt 1B
Cain RF
Posey C
Pence LF
Panik 2B
Crawford SS
Nunez 3B
Pitcher P
Getting a guy like Cain would really upgrade the outfield defense; he would be a better CF than Span, but may perhaps be best fit in the ever tricky and ever spacious RF of AT&T. It would take pressure off Pence and Span. The great range of Cain could allow Span to move a step or two towards LF (and perhaps) one back – and perhaps his metrics would improve as Fowler’s did. To the lineup, you’d be adding a .290-.300ish hitter with plenty of extra base potential, the ability to steal and to take extra bases, and to get Phil Nevin’s arms windmilling at 3B.
Royals are on the verge of a rebuild sooner or later. It’s a matter of how soon they want to start that process and what they think of their chances competing with the Indians given that they won’t have much of a starting rotation.
I see you left Chicken Wing in there…keep on rootin’ on!
C’mon Colonel Sanders, he’s under contract, he can play the position with his legs and instincts well, and he can hit above average. Look for .280+/bounceback year at the plate.
Finger licking good!
Typo in your last sentence Scout. With all due respect it’s “Finger licken’ good” or, if you prefer the Missouri spelling: “Finger lickin’ good”…
Dam Yankees. Kant spell.
throw you a chicken bone, alternate lineup vs tough LHP (Mac went to KC):
Cain CF
Panik 2B
Posey 1B
Pence RF
Nunez SS
Gillaspie 3B
Slater LF
Brown C
P
Don’t leave my SS out of ANY lineup
Needed a day. His shoulder is barking.
Good morning SFB. When I looked at your lineup before reading the rest of your comment, I had to do a double take on the lineup. Matt Cain in RF? WTF? Then I realized you were referring to Lorenzo Cain. Wouldn’t be a bad pick-up.
I did the same thing. That WOULD be a way to get some value out of Cain’s last year, I guess…not necessarily a GOOD way, but A way. 🙂
Unfortunately, it would take him about 2 days to run down a ball in Triples Alley.
I’ll donate my Lab. She’s getting older, but she can still fetch like a champ.
I love me some doggies!
2 1/2!
Remind me again of how we might get Cain?
Hits about 30 points higher vs. lefties, this is very good. Hits a lot better in high/mid-leverage than low-leverage, check. Way above average fielder. The thing which I don’t get about Cain is his .345 career BABIP, I don’t see where that’s coming from.
One year left on his deal. 11 mil owed. Coming off down season with some injury. They would need a mid/front of rotation pitching prospect. Hello Tyler Beede. Maybe Mac to fill their OF void. Something to consider for Dayton Moore, but this may have zero wings, Mr. xBABIP.
Beede and Mac for one year of Lorenzo Cain? Pass.
Ditto.
Beede is going to be in the Giants’ rotation by 2018 if not sooner. He’s their safety net if they lose Cueto.
Yes, he is. Besides, I like him a lot. I remember his knees bouncing as he waited to find out if he had been selected by the Giants. He was anxious. Then his big smile. I’ve liked him ever since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6KTWJmY99M
And he did an interview with Greek Giant for our fan blog!
Yes! And linked to it on twitter. How cool was that?
Dat’s SO cute!
Stratton could be expendable.
I think several of them are. They’re a bit top-heavy on upper-minors starting pitching prospects, considering that their major league rotation is more than full (and three of the top four guys are signed at least through 2019).
Word is Ozuna is available, because Marlins need starting pitching. Back up the truck and let Stratton and others (not named Beede or Blach) become Marlins.
I’ve also heard murmurs they could go after Cespedes–who might like playing in Miami–and trade an outfielder, probably Ozuna.
“The Marlins need starting pitching”–yes. Sadly, yes, they do.
But has very little trade value.
Sumatra
Flapjacks
Apple sausage
i hope there’s enough to go around
Really, that sounds good!
ham & cheese breakfast burritos. Guatamalan well down the hatch.
Breakfast burritos reminds me of Pa Cartwright on Bonanza. He could devour almost anything but maybe not as much as Pernel Roberts and Hoss. “Hop-Sing” was a great cook.
i love the references that bring me right back to my childhood. my grandfather loved bonanza, and all westerns. #ahappiertime
I had an older brother by about 6-7 years and he always watched Sky King, the Lone Ranger, Roy and Dale Evans with Pat Brady – 77 Sunset Strip – Dragnet – Gunsmoke – Have Gun Will Travel – Amos ‘n Andy – Alfred Hitchcock – Cheyenne – Buck Rogers – Lassie – Perry Mason – Peter Gunn – The Cisco Kid – Zorro – The Alcoa Hour and about 25 more ——-
some are all time favorites. dragnet, alfred hitchcock from your list, as well as honeymooners, and twilight zone. a lot on your list were a little before my time. were you a twilight zone guy?
That was basically my brothers watch list. He had control. I was 8 yrs younger and was found in a basket on the front porch, placed their by the Holy Cross Nuns 🙂
I was very much a twilight zone guy. I still try to talk like Rod Serling.
Soon to be a blood test for TBI and concussion. Proves to be 90% accurate in detecting concussion in adolescents.
I think our comments need an offseason too…
Happy Election Day Greek! paul (in Seattle) :o)
p.s. Need a baseball hit to distract me today…
I wonder if that’s how come Alex trekked over to AZ to catch a couple of Fall League games.
Sounds downright appealing doesn’t it?
(I’m heading to FL mañana to see my family! Might even toss around the old baseball!!) :o)
From The Oracle 2 days ago:
“I left my presidential ballot blank, but with all the information that’s come to light, it’s laughable that Clinton supporters could feel morally superior to Trump supporters. Those are two terrible choices.”
Amen, brother.
see above
Folks: A word from the TWG Publisher, Emperor for Life and Managing Editor: Please keep politics out of this blog! No pro or anti comments or partisan writings.. The beauty of baseball is that it’s politics free.
More faux lineups and fake trades, less politics
Is something political happening today? I thought it was Free Agency Opening Day. And Gold Glove Winners Announcement Day.
What I want to know is: where is Jeff Passan’s Ultimate FA tracker for 2016? He’s been too busy writing about the Cubs.
I saw/read the MLB Trade Rumors article and Grant Brisbee’s article. Bottom line: this is a pretty ugly-looking free agent class.
However: It’s especially ugly if you’re looking for rotation or middle infield help. Not so bad if you’re looking for a closer or an outfielder.
We really have to credit Bobby Evans for taking care of business with the rotation before this bad FA year hit.
Yes, we do. And that involved trading Matt Duffy, which I was shocked by, and very upset about. Bobby Evans was right to trade for Matt Moore when he could.
Agreed. But it still stings. Duffy was (is) special.
Yes, the FA market is kinda fugly.
With respect to Mac and Parker, Fowler or Lorenzo Cain would look good in Orange and Black.
It’s also my mom’s 75th birthday today.
That’s wonderful. Happy Birthday to your Mom!
p.s. Have you seen that website: I waited 96 years? I heard about it on NPR, then went to look it up online.
Happy Birthday Lefty’s mom!
happy, happy mom!! 3/4’s the way there
And you are that sweet 16 age bracket – OR mom’s age in reverse?
I’m 56. She was 18 when she had me.
“Close is only good in horseshoes and grenades”
Go gettem Mom. Who’d she vote for. Whoops. ;o)
I really like the “Emperor for Life” part, GG.
This is your place, so I’ll respect your wishes, but didn’t you previously bring politics into it?
He checked with his posse and they said “no”.
Thanks, GG.
Ready….break!
W H O O P S – https://disqus.com/home/discussion/together-were-giants/matthew_guest_post_baseball_the_giants_and_me/#comment-2987998407
Greek Giant for President!
Good movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2103264/
I noticed that the Giants have updated their 40-man roster–all the free agents gone, 60-day DL guys (Heston, Black, Mac) returned, Ian Gardeck back (as mentioned here yesterday).
Current count: 35 total, 21 pitchers, 2 catchers, 5 outfielders, 7 infielders.
Something will have to give, if not for new acquisitions, then for new Rule 5 purposes (I think around the end of this month). Also, there are several arbitration-eligible guys who may not all get tendered (looking at you, Ehire).
I’m wondering if a qualifying offer would deter G’s from signing a FA. They of course gave up their 1st rd pick last yr (#18th).
I doubt it. They’ll be in the 20s, having made the playoffs this year. Not worth foregoing what you need right now.
Good Morning!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gX1EP6mG-E
Entertainment for the whole family!
There is a great sadness in the land, Brexit has lowed the value of the English pound to such a degree, that Toblerone has cut the size of their chocolate portions to offset the increased cost of cocoa.
Careless choices have REAL consequences!
Yes the do.
Great typo … “the do” hits the fan either way today.
Shhh. GG’s admonition.
Fitting quote for today.
Ken Rosenthal suggested the Giants could go after Jansen AND Turner, just like I mentioned here days ago. He’s stealing all my good material.
I love the idea of taking Turner away from the Dodgers, and Lord knows the Giants could use another RH power bat. They could move Nunez to LF in that instance. But I also don’t see it–(a) I think he’ll sign back with the Dodgers and (b) he’s 32, had microfracture knee surgery, and doesn’t have a long track record of success. Whoever signs him will not only be burning a draft pick (unless it’s the Dodgers) and likely overpaying him for his declining years.
FYI, Turner and Jansen both got qualifying offers from the Dodgers, as you may know.
Yes, I know. I don’t think the Giants are going to worry too much about giving up draft picks in the back end of the first and second rounds if they can get something they need now.
And once he gets his payday, he may get off the juice.
Wow, didn’t even realize that Turner was the #2 defensive 3bman in the majors last year per fangraphs:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=25,d
He’s up for a Gold Glove, right?
i don’t know. The Gold Glove awards are so stupid I don’t even pay attention to them.
Well if I Giant wins I pay a little attention, but they’re still stupid.
Honesty 🙂
http://lowres.jantoo.com/real-estate-autograph-puns-word_puns-play_on_words-ceiling-36530213_low.jpg
?? “me to” ??
You’re a cosmic fan.
I really hope the Giants sign Melancon and Desmond. Those two would make me really happy. Sure, it would be great to get an outfielder like Cespedes or even Dexter Fowler, but I just don’t see Cespedes coming here or the Giants paying that kind of money for him even if he’d listen.
Desmond is a perfect fit for the Giants’ present and future needs. He could play LF this year while Nunez plays 3B–or vice versa. He can back up Span in CF. If Nunez leaves after 2017, Desmond could be the third baseman for the next few years. Or they can try to keep Nunez and have two versatile guys with different strengths–Nunez with the speed and slick glove (and surprising pop) and Desmond with the power. That also allows them to be creative with guys coming up through the ranks like Arroyo, Slater, Duggar, Cole, Reynolds, and so forth.
Melancon, Desmond, a veteran backup catcher. Maybe one more veteran set-up guy like Romo or even Greg Holland if his showcase didn’t blow anyone away, or Brad Ziegler, or Benoit. Boom, done, not even any trades needed.
Lineup:
Nunez, Panik, Desmond, Posey, Pence, Belt, Crawford, Span
Bench:
New backup C, Gillaspie, Kelby, two of Parker/Mac/Slater (also can play infield and even CF)
Bullpen:
Melancon, veteran set-up guy, Smith, Okert, Law, Strickland, Kontos (long man?)
That is a versatile, beautiful thing. Three different guys who can back up Crawford (and Panik) if they need a day (Desmond, Nunez, Kelby). All OF positions covered.
BOOM. Make it happen!
Reminds me it is time to open the MyHotStoveGuy2017â„¢ contest isn’t it?
What postion gets addressed first?
What player gets traded first?
What player gets extended and what are the terms?
I will look up last year’s guidelines and post that soon.
Desmond giving Crawford a break at SS is a very big plus. A significant part of the 2nd half crash last year was Crawford just getting tired, and this is a regular thing. With Desmond they don’t need someone like Adrianza on the 25-man roster.
I would pick Gearrin over Kontos, but I’ve never been president of Kontos’s fan club.
I think Bochy radically undervalues both of them (Kontos should be used in shorter stinks where he only has to throw the cutter and slider so he can forget his mediocre fastball). I would rather keep both and forgot about the veteran set-up guy.
I suspect Nunez will do the Crawford day off duties in ’17. No Ehire required.
That’s what I assumed when they got him. But he didn’t play a single game at SS since he came to the Giants.
It does look great. The only thing which doesn’t fit is that both Nunez and Gillaspie hit righties better. Kelby should get in some time at 3b vs. lefties. I have a feeling he could handle 3b.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/281764362d5d0f47b7fc8ff5566c780ed9f7bdcd504509d90891cfdf468ac939.jpg
MyHotStoveGuyâ„¢
1) Pick what position gets addressed first.
2) Pick what Giants player gets dealt first.
3) What current Giant gets extended and on what terms?
Give me your guesses by Replying to one of my posts/comments so I do not miss it.
HaakAway…do you remember what the correct answers were a year ago? Just curious.
I was afraid someone would ask that because my notes are not clear …
SP was addressed first [Samardzija]
Crawford was extended 6/75
Not sure who was dealt away in the Off-Season (Maybe “no one” which was the guess of some.] EDIT: 16 of us were in on Susac or Mejia but that was a delayed deal; this is Hot Stove only.
Thank you.
Be A Genie was a topic of convo
The Rule V could fit in here too.
Do you want a Fourth Category? Problem is that it seems the Giants lose a guy but have no gain/purpose in it.
No No I cannot count to four. Three is way plenty. Thanks HA
1. Closer
2. Josh Osich
3. Conor Gillaspie – 2yr/$3M
Way to get the ball rolling.
I am going with:
Catcher [Veteran back-up; I think the Closers will string things out too long]
Blackburn [Blach passed and Beede is breathing down his neck but he has trade value]
Bum – 5yr/$110
I was going to add Brown’s name as Giant getting traded (to make room for veteran, because they need it), but it seems to be slim-pickens in the Giants system for catchers (based upon “best prospects” list)
You really think they can sign Bum for so little?
Yeah, I forgot they gave Samardj 5/90 huh? $22 million / year used to sound big. I may have to adjust up.
Good call on Gillaspie
1. Closer
2. Mac (I think the Giants will sign an outfielder/bat)
3. Bum, 6 yr/$180 mil + option year(s)
I’m hoping it’s Orlando Bloom…I mean Parker…that gets traded (versus Mac).
1) Closer
2) Parker
3) Bumgarner
Haak: did we ever see the final MyGuy 2016 numbers? If so, I missed it. Any chance of a re-post?
They haven’t been published yet.
Thanks for asking but it will be a big splash:
media coverage, concession speech from Skweezplay, stories of the 108 week drought being broken by Someone, etc.
You need to make a guess on the terms for Bum and you get one adjustment because … well, because I want to make one for myself.
1) Closer
2) Blach
3) Moore
Terms on Moore plz?
Second chapter of the history of the MLBPA negotiation history.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/a-history-of-the-mlbpa-collective-bargaining-agreement-part-2/
A compiled list of the salary money coming of various teams books this offseason. Maybe it’s a clue to what’s available for new salary commitments. But the luxury tax (or whatever it’s called) comes into play.
https://i.imgur.com/atw7zpJ.png
Absolutely. I’d estimate that the Giants have 15 million on the conservative end to 25+ million, maybe more to spend on the aggressive, right player/s, right time side. They can play their backloading games and wade into the luxury tax waters as well. The window does not stay open forever and it may not be as open as it will be next year for some time.
Per Andy McCullough, the Dodgers are going to go after Chapman. C’mon over, Kenley. Wouldn’t it be fun to stick it to the Dodgers?
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/520598/Dodgers-intend-to-make-run-at-Aroldis-Chapman
Is your favorite Classical Greek character Medea?
No. I’m terrified of snakes. Seriously, can’t even look at a photo of one without the shudders.
Or is that Medusa? Sleep-deprived today
I think he’s been watching Tyler Perry movies …
oops…stepped on you…my bad
Tyler Perry
Medea, as in Euripides. Cunning, sorceress.
Black and orange team interested in Ian Desmond….
It turns out it’s Dan Duquette camped out in that RV, not Bobby Evans.
Where’d you read this? I’ve been pushing Desmond for weeks. He’s pretty much exactly what the Giants need. I thought the Rangers gave him a qualifying offer?
He’s talking about the Orioles
I see. Rats.
Wrong house 🙂
I say no to Desmond. He’s already 31, will be fairly expensive, and had a poor year as recently as 2015. The Giants need to get younger in the outfield,
Too late. I already signed him. Some Oracle YOU are.
What happened to being pro-Williamson?
I am. I just don’t think management is. See Duvall, Adam.
Desmond was not a fan favorite here I remember when he started his cavalier Pagan approach.
Desmond = Nunez
Some interesting data on Kontos. Note that his high-leverage stats are much better than low and mid-lev:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=9486&position=P&season=0
wOBA in low-lev/med-lev/hi-lev .277/.304/.227
SLG .355/.407/.262
WHIP 1.13/1.20/1.00
LD% 21.4%/22.1%/18.3%
Hard% 28.5%/21.3%/21.4%
Why? I suspect it’s because he’s got a great cutter and great slider but lousy fastball (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9486&position=P) but in the relatively long stints he does, he has to throw the fastball a lot because the other pitches take too much out of him. In high-leverage situations he bites the bullet and ditches the fastball. Conclusion: It would be better to reserve him for very high-leverage situations where he only has to pitch to 2-3 batters, and have just just forget about the fastball.
that makes sense me. so, you would think bochy, and staff, should have someone at least as smart as you, and should have uncovered that piece of news. why then, does bochy usually use him as a guy that can get 2 or three innings? if you are right, then he should only be used in the 7th, or 8th inning, or a big spot earlier in the game.
You would think so. I think that through 2014 the Core 4 had the main roles covered so it was natural for Kontos to be used in some other function, but as the Core 4 fell apart Bochy doesn’t seem to have rethought the situation constructively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDUDL2Ml3hU
Nice to see “Grady” from Sanford and Sons voted
Just throwing a name out there…
Morosi also tweets that left-hander Boone Logan is generating some early interest, and FanRag’s Jon Heyman hears the same. Morosi notes that the Blue Jays and Giants both had interest in Logan at the non-waiver trade deadline this summer, though the Rockies elected not to trade him.
I can see Larry Baer selling Boone Logan wine in the Gotham Club ..
When both are completely healthy – and motivated – who is faster – Pagan or Coco Crisp?
Of all the Giants – say since 2010 – was it clear that Andres the Forever Giant was THE fastest or was Gary Brown – faster during his half and hour on the team?
nunez is as fast as anyone since who? torres?
OK that is why we move him to the OF …
Depends on whether there’s a wall nearby.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/giants-offseason-news/the-giants-new-closer-mark-melancon-kenley-jansen-or-derek-law/