by
Greek Giant
With the news that Will Clark was one of the ten former players considered for the Baseball Hall of Fame by the Today’s Game Era Committee, it’s time to re-examine Will the Thrill’s credentials as a potential Hall of Famer. While he did not make the cut in the recent vote, his stats are certainly worth a fresh look. Former teammate Mike Krukow, for one, sure thinks Clark is a Hall of Famer.
As we recall, Clark’s production from 1987-1991 was Hall of Fame-esque to be sure.
The question gets a bit foggier upon examination of Will Clark’s career from 1991 onwards. His home run and RBI totals dipped considerably and other sluggers overtook him for notoriety and production at first base. Checking out his Baseball Reference page unearths some interesting facts. Did you know the Thrill’s full name is “William Nuschler Clark”? The graceful slugger also drove in a cool 102 runs in 1998 for the Rangers.
Will Clark was a fine first baseman and in our current age of advanced metrics, it’s likely Clark’s contributions on the bases and in the field would be valued more highly today than they were when he played. What I loved most about Will Clark, apart from his beautiful swing, was his competitive fire. This quote, on what getting elected to the Hall of Fame would mean to him, is a sterling illustration of the first baseman we Giants fans loved:
“That would be a big-time feather in the cap if that happens,” said Clark, 52. “But if it doesn’t, that’s OK. Because I didn’t play this sport to get into the Hall of Fame. I played this sport because of the challenge and competition. If it happens, I’ll be the most ecstatic person ever, I can tell you that.”
In 15 seasons Clark batted a crisp .303 and is one of only a handful of players with over 8,000 at-bats and a career batting average over .300 not in the Hall of Fame. In fact, as the MLB.com article points out: “Of the 64 players to bat at least .300 in 8,000 or more plate appearances, 45 are Hall of Famers.”
Looking purely at the numbers, Will Clark appears to be a border-line player. If we vote with our hearts and minds, Clark is in. Just voting on numbers really depends on a variety of factors ranging from Clark’s longevity to what numbers are most important to voters.
Breckeroni says YES – and also the Giants should Co-retire their number 22 for the Thrill and the Ripper
#retireclark22
BINGO!
You and I have agreed on that for years.
Will is a SF Giants HOFer. He brought the winning into the Giants locker room and the team was winning before Bonds ever got here. Will also didn’t go the PED route; which many of his peers did (caught or not).
The Baseball HOF would be nice, but injuries (and perhaps PEDs) prevent him from having the necessary numbers of his era.
He’s my favorite Giant.
Talk about a couple of 1Bs that could hit, on the same collegiate team (Jeff Brantley and Bobby Thigpen also on this team)
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/5e22e9abb7ae2e04f421b52337e5a2465ae31075/c=2-0-799-450&r=x329&c=580×326/local/-/media/2015/05/04/JacksonMS/JacksonMS/635663424184993954-Palmeiro-Clark.jpg
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3713551/1985_baseball_team_-_2.png
13_Thumbs_Up
Perhaps Matthew will engineer another succinct featured comment of the day that simply says:
“yes”
“After Barry”
That sounds like something one cleans off a floor. 😉
Sideache alert
“Been waiting a long f%#*ing time for this!”
He’s closer than I initially thought but I just think the writers will see the 284 career HR and that will be the downfall. All of the other numbers seem to be there except HR totals. What’s the lowest HR total for a 1B who is a current HOFer?
20, Frank Chance
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofst1b.shtml
Of Tinkers, Evers, & Chance fame?
Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chance
Hey, he was a California kid that went to Fresno High School – I think Tom Seaver went there as well. Also appears he went to Cal Berkeley when it was just called University of California.
Great raw black and white footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctzCsCiqSpk
… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPDhWFLIIQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctzCsCiqSpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPDhWFLIIQU
See also Ogden Nash’s “lineup” of the alphabet, at “E”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-Up_for_Yesterday
These are the saddest of possible words
Tinker to Evers to Chance.
Trio of bear cubs and fleeter than birds
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble
Making a Giant hit into a double
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble
Tinker to Evers to Chance.
– Franklin Pierce Adams
narrated by Richard Brundage
Well it looks like he beat that by quite a bit.
His career is a bit of a mystery – in his last 6 seasons he hit .326-.305-.303-.319-.301-.345(!!!) – and retired at the age of 36. Seems like if he struck around a bit longer he’d be a shoo-in.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clarkwi02.shtml
Wasn’t his back just killing him? Yet he was still raking.
I recall that now, Foots.
It wasn’t only his back. His son is autistic and he also went home to help raise him. Didn’t think it was fair to his wife to be out on the road that much and have her try to raise him alone. HOF worthy PERIOD. Just like Dale Murphy.
What’s kind of crazy is that Clark hit a combined .319/.418/.546 with 21 HRs in his final season playing for STL and BAL (2000).
Clark’s ’89 was just oozing awesomeness: .333/.407/.508, 23 HRs, 111 RBIs.
If it wasn’t for that Mitchell guy and his 47 HRs, 125 RBIs, and OPS>1.000, Clark would have had an MVP under his belt – which certainly is helpful for HOF cases.
https://cbssanfran.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/kevin-mitchell.jpg?w=420
I think the last year he put up for Tony in St Louis was remarkable before he shut it down and that one year will help boost #22 to the HOF finishing line.
Since TO is having his 18th annual golf tournament – it appears that Philip Fabiani and David Amoroso are the Masters of Ceremonies since they’ve been MIA from TWG. 4 person Scramble. Proceeds go to the Jeff Fischer and Trent Baalke_Go_fund_Me_ foundation.
my nom de blog says it all. I loved that fierce competitiveness and the confidence too. Put him in if he was in the top 25 players by WAR in the years he played.
Nomme de blogue !
love it!
**Off-Topic***
Can you imagine if THIS happened? He’d have to pick his own GM and have lots of player control, but yes…it would be the type of hire that would support the new stadium revenue.
Oh yes…and it slaps Jed upside the head, too.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jim-harbaugh-la-rams-jeff-fisher-stan-kroenke-next-coach-salary-record-121216
More names:
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/los-angeles-rams-jeff-fisher-head-coach-replacement-candidates-list-121216
The head injury suit is about to be settled by the NFL. Roughly 1000 players will receive about $5 million each.
great googly moogly that’s a lot of shinola! I hope it helps the guys out before they can get swindled.
Anything to keep NFL officials from testifying about what they knew, when they new it, how they covered it up, taking an oath about it. I’d have forced them in order to get off with simple damages, to elocute the entire sorry story in public, and in court.
But then many years of stalling in the courts would ensue, and the guys who need the money for care could die first.
Then you try Goodell for criminal conspiracy and depraved indifference. You seize the NFL’s proceeds as obtained from a criminal conspiracy and revoke their non profit status.
I like ‘depraved indifference’.
Do you have any idea what is going on with current players? It is hard to imagine football is “safe” even with rules changes and no doubt, some equipment changes, and concussion rules. Perhaps the current players have to sign a release promising not to sue later?
Nothing that I know of. I don’t watch it at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVjToYOjbM
Those guys are alllllllllllllllright.
Sadly two of them WERE allright.
With Harbs returning soon to work with Jared Goff – it would behoove him to hire TO for his various sundry of assignments. Jimbo still has his home in “Pallee-Alto”
http://www.knbr.com/2016/12/12/jim-harbaugh-to-the-rams-rumor-has-merit/
So you’re prediction is Harbaugh is going to the Rams, unless he doesn’t go to the Rams?
I learned that from Peter Malloy aka “either you’ve worked for the SJPD for 22 yrs is a lie….or” http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2015/06/05/parents-of-mentally-unstable-woman-shot-by-san-jose-police-criticize-report-clearing-officer/#comment-1579681
I’ll give you credit for one thing: you’re #1 in incoherence.
Hug your daughters Malloy
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b7ae1ddcd46a3074796dd5e483477d449ca5097ca9ed6b9f364d17e85bad409d.jpg
Which is bigger? Buster’s charity drive Tundra, or the coffee cup Kuiper stole from Bapah?
https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/808406943010156544
https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/808384104299315200
I tried Starbucks “coffee” once when I was abroad and I istantly realized why it could never succeed in Italy. No Starbucks shops in Italy nowadays.
You might be surprised. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88256&page=1
Not at all. I knew that Starbucks is planning a landing in Italy. I’m sure it’ll be a bloody failure.
http://www.corriere.it/economia/16_marzo_23/ora-ufficiale-primo-starbucks-italia-arrivera-primi-mesi-2017-332722ce-f122-11e5-9f30-007f8fe49766.shtml
They’re too good at what they do, and to be honest, you’re a bit too smug about your confidence they won’t be able to. They’re smart cookies, and to tell you the truth, except for the odd cup of Arabic, I was never that impressed with European coffee, myself. Although, since I haven’t drank coffee for 14-15 years, maybe I should retire my opinion of European coffee as obsolete.
Maybe. If you will ever come to Venice, gimme a whistle. I’ll have you to taste my own coffee blend, created by my father 60 years ago, still a favourite in Venice coffee parlours.
Your specific example, however miraculous, doesn’t impact Starbucks. 😉 Anyway, I’m an English Tea drinker now, and have been for a decade.
OMG, you became a Limey !
The English make excellent tea. Visit Harrogate in the English Midlands and check it out.
https://www.taylorsofharrogate.com/
I barely can stand tea, even if my family made a fortune importing it for centuries, along with coffee.
IMO, your loss. I’ve, of course, had a lot of both over the years. I much prefer a good English Tea to any coffee I remember having. I’ve had coffee in Geneva, Zurich, Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Brussels, Liege, Surrey, and Vienna and although some was very good, I’ll still take a good English black tea blend.
We are both right. De gustibus disputandum non est. No disputing about tastes. Have a good afternoon. 01:30 am here. It’s time to go to bed for me. See ya.
Unless you’re a vampire. Night.
Youre so awesome. And if people don’t believe me, they can just ask you.
Missed target again. I’m an ugly old bad SOB as most of the past Contarinis as many people discovered in a few past centuries (about ten).
I’m not sure if a European can appreciate an American tourist’s sometimes pathological desire and longing for a “cup o’ joe,” after 5-10 days without whilst visiting your beautiful and lovely countries. Don’t worry Alviso, the American tourists will drink the stuff.
Not me for sure, once was enough.
I see them almost everyday much delighted to drink our “espresso”. Gallons of it.
Try Papa John’s Pizza if you REALLY want a “Product Failure” icon
“Omaha”
They have a ground beef pizza on their menu. Sounds awesome.
It’s actually pretty good if you are on the road and need a pick me up. I think it’s the equivalent of truck drivers snorting lines of meth to haul their load on down the highway, on through the night.
That’s a big 10-4, from your back door…
We used to bounce “LA turnarounds” off the windshield, catch em in our mouth, and go go go.
That’s a big 10-4 !
I thought that truck drivers called them “California Turnarounds.” There was a country-western song by the same title, IIRC.
yuck, I can only stand their regular coffee if I don’t smell it. Give me Major Dickason every time.
Starbucks is basically making addicts out of people. The sad thing is seeing teenagers with “large” coffees, even if masked in Caramel and fudge. While not the worst in this study, close enough.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thrillist/caffeine-in-coffee_b_3671665.html
He fills his with popcorn.
NFL and Raiders Brass meeting with Lott Group to discuss Stadium Proposal.
I always said to non-believers that Ronnie Lott is a smart dude/businessman and he wasn’t moving forward with any of this without some behind-the-scenes support by the NFL. Makes no sense to do any of this without Ronnie reaching out to his NFL contacts and understanding the landscape.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000755906/article/nfl-officials-raiders-meeting-to-discuss-oakland-proposal
Ronnie is a smart dude. Better on TV and in person. Some of his radio marathons made it seem like he had taken way too many hits to the helmet, but he is completely different away from radio,
Also Harris Barton is a big shaker/mover in his group.
As a former Catcher for his Netherlands Team I am sure Jansen’s 80M for 5 years will be spread out back home eventually. If anybody remembers he had a great on-the-field interview done by MyGal Jessica Mendoza last season
Brisbee is NOT pleased.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/12/12/13924920/dodgers-justin-turner-kenley-jansen-rich-hill
Brisbee wants his JD Martinez and then some more JD Martinez, topped off with some J-Mart.
This just in from Brisbee:
“Mostly, though, this is a proactive, welcome signing because here’s the Giants’ depth chart for left-handed relievers now:
Will Smith
Josh Osich
Steven Okert
Matt Reynolds
Christian Jones?
Kraig Sitton?
Caleb Smith?
Ricky Romero?
Holy crap! Reckon both the “O-Boys” will be sticking around.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/12/12/13927826/giants-matt-reynolds-minor-league-deal
That’s a bad Jones.
Oscar Peterson and The Count https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIs1vcoPQbw
That’s a trip. I played piano as a kid and saw OP play several times. I thought he was the most facile piano player I ever saw. The Count wasn’t that great on the piano, but was one of the greatest arrangers to ever live.
Ditto. He has a ‘Concert by the Sea’ recording that’s just incredible, as I recall.
I’m a Jimmie Lunceford fan of band leaders of that era.
As a Cub fan and being at some of the games where Clark destroyed the Cubs in the playoffs in 1989, I will state he should be in already. He single handedly won the series and deservedly the MVP. If not for him the Cubs would have gone on the WS and Mark Grace would have been the MVP of the NLDS. His years of consistency and his fire and brashness sometimes mistaken for cockiness may have turned some off of him. He is in my minds an MVP and a HOFer.
I saw him make the last out in a no hitter Mike Smith pitched against the Giants in ’86. 😉
I don’t think so. I know he’s super popular with the gang here but Will under performed his ability IMO. He should have been better and built up better hitting stats. He peaked in his second season when he hit for power to all fields. Shortly after that he started to focus on average over power, slicing a lot of singles to left field to keep his average up at .300 but sacrificing pop. I felt he should have been able to continue doing both (just like Jack Clark before him who decided to become a dead pull power hitter instead of using the whole field as he did so well early in his time with the Giants). Also Clark spent more time in the duck blinds than the gym during the offseason, if he got in better shape I think that would have helped as well. So it’s a no vote for me.
There was a time with SF that he suffered a front leg / front foot / front-foot toe problem and the entire time he played through it. Davvy mentioned that he was “leaking out” on his front side without any ability to stay back. And like you said – there were also a few years they he got thick and was not as in shape as his early years.
But – yes for me.
He could not keep on the field, only had 500 at bats in 7 of 15 seasons .
Just for creating Pitchers/Catchers Talking INTO their gloves – I (wink-wink) put 22 in the HOF.
Maddux didn’t cover his mouth during this fourth-inning mound meeting in Game 1 of the 1989 NLCS …
Maddux was about to face Will with the bases loaded in a one-run game. Cubs catcher Rick Wrona and pitching coach Dick Pole trotted to the mound for a conference with Maddux and his infielders. Meanwhile, from the on-deck circle, Clark supposedly read Maddux’s lips as he mouthed the words, “Fastball, high inside.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzfRLnb0qtc – Clark reads Maddux’s lips – “Fastball, high inside.” At the 1:21:15 mark.
Clark then whomped a grand slam, off an up-and-in, first-pitch fastball. And, theoretically, glove-talking was born, approximately four seconds later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPR_7jS2YyU
Byrneseee finds his niche http://www.sfchronicle.com/athletics/article/Eric-Byrnes-From-the-A-s-to-ultra-marathons-10788576.php
Read that yesterday….cool stuff. I know a lot of folks are annoyed by the guy, but I think his energy is genuine
Pathologic.
But genuine.
You’ll love this pro Bowl extra. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/12/nfl-pro-bowl-schedule-dodgeball-skills-games
Gag.
Very interesting note on zone management changes among batters now that outside zone rates by pitchers have stabilized at about 55%, up about 10% over the last decade. Outside zone contact rates are up about 15% over that same time. As they put it, hitters seem to be channeling their inner Vlad Guerrero.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pitchers-wont-throw-strikes-so-batters-are-getting-better-at-hitting-bad-pitches/
Take it easy Allen.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6acdd049cc19cdb08b4c5e640422e855191fdef09f43918d97a6595a46b0b294.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/516d2c14c4370b89c04ae6a4dde0b3cdcc74789f091406e909418ed740505485.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f01d61b4a65fe443267878fd2e2f50ad25ba95e51361164d32cce644dc0ea8b2.jpg
I opened all these pictures!
Versus ? Not opening them?
https://justgrits.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/hank.jpg?w=477&h=377
What about Greenies that were rampant in the 1960’s (See Ball Four)
God, what a heart shredding experience. http://www.knoxnews.com/story/entertainment/columnists/sam-venable/2016/12/11/sam-venable-santa-grants-final-wish/95091356/
No kidding. Thanks. Merry Christmas… to all.
Good.
https://twitter.com/ap_sports/status/808507985400053760
This was always stupid and demeaning to women. You’d think the teams and players would have figured this out for themselves. No, they needed a ban.
What’s a ‘babe from 1/2 moon bay’ know about it? 😉
Clearly at least some of the players didn’t like it or this wouldn’t have happened.
Yes, plus social media and publicity. I wonder if some of the players’ spouses spoke up? MLB needs more women in management.
I saw on the video of Melancon’s presser the other day that Staci Slaughter was emceeing it. I thought she did a nice job. It was good to see that at a Giants event.
Yes, it sure was.
Here’s another thing. Many MLB players are very religious–southern conservative Christians, Latin American Catholics, etc. The Bible specifically forbids cross-dressing (see Deuteronomy 22:5). There may be some guys who feel uncomfortable on moral grounds. I’m not saying I’d take an obscure Old Testament passage that seriously myself, but people’s rights need to be respected here. It’s a workplace, not a frat house.
Which makes this irony: “MLB looked at several college anti-hazing policies while developing these new rules.”
The policy prohibits “requiring, coercing or encouraging” players from “dressing up as women or wearing costumes that may be offensive to individuals based on their race, sex, nationality, age, sexual orientation, gender identify or other characteristic.”
What men in drag are not PC any more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WAZ60xA9wo
My rookie year in Drum Corp my initiation was to go drag in a truck stop in the pan handle of Texas. Did it and laugh about it now. I’m a little tire of people being offended by something and forcing others to stop doing it. Look the other way. You might to thing about the fact there are 325 million people in the country and everyone is going to be offended by something. Time to get a sense of humor.
It doesn’t matter whether or not I’m offended. (I don’t frankly care very much.) What matters is whether employees in their workplace are being coerced into doing something they’re not comfortable with. They have rights and should be treated with respect.
If the players in question request to opt out I agree. But there should not be an overall mandate on every organization and player. It’s not just that it has gone on throughout the history of baseball. It is part of an unwritten code, a right of passage. Agreed if a player for personal reasons does not want to participate then that is his right. But they are putting a ban on everyone, most of whom I would speculate would not object.
Again: It makes a difference that it’s a workplace, not a fraternity or your drum corps. I have to go through online training every two years at work about bullying/hostile work environment/harassment. There are some serious laws about this and there can be liability. I would bet money that lawyers advised MLB to knock it off. In that kind of environment, “opting out” would not be a realistic alternative because it could cause someone to be disadvantaged professionally, if veterans or coaches decide the player who objects is “a bad team player.”
Baseball has made its ruling and no need to discuss it further. But I disagree with the ruling. It’s a restriction on how teams conduct there own affairs. Agree to disagree.
Agreed. These are professionals of the highest order. This isn’t a college fraternity.
It’s also a game which goes back for over a century. Things done right or wrong to build a team spirit. Professionals or not they can have their rights of passage, painting the statue in Chicago, Kangaroo court ect.
Hopefully they can be men and rise above the right of passage of dressing like a girl. I know the president elect doesn’t set a very high bar, but it will be nice to see major league ballplayers clear that hurdle.
Don’t haze me, bro!
What is the world coming to?
Really nice job of explaining the effects of spin on a baseball.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-physics-of-the-force-on-spinning-baseballs/
This bronze age Celtic artifact site looks suspiciously like an ancient baseball field.
http://www.archaeology.org/images/ND2016/Samhain/Samhain-Ireland-Tlachtga-excavation.jpg
http://www.archaeology.org/issues/232-1611/features/4940-ireland-halloween-roots
Gridlines man, prime meridians.
OCD grounds keepers.
Ritual.
Afternoon tea.
Is anybody else having problems with the multiple photos posted? I’ll try to do something simple, like upvote a comment, any comment, or edit, and all of sudden the blog goes haywire, posts the multiple photos contained, and I have to scroll back to where I was to upvote and/or edit. It’s a small matter, but annoying.
Don’t you have a polar vortex inbound?
brrrrrrrrrrrrr
I once laughed in the face of an Alberta Clipper!
I bought another, bigger shovel.
Sounds more like browser issues. Which are you using?
Do I have a problem posting multiple photos? Yes. And so does my buddy, Clutch.
That wasn’t my question. The blog didn’t used to do this.
Sounds like people are having unique problems. Never experienced yours. Bapah has his.
I’ve got problems, but the blog isn’t one of them!
99?!
20!
manageable
I just upvoted you, but nothing weird happened!
Now I’m editing. Gotta be thorough 🙂
Still nothing weird
Did you already open the comment with the multiple photos? If you do that first, that seems to work, but I don’t always know where that comment is. I hardly ever click “see more.”
which one?
I’m here to help, deeg!
Send in the squirrel!
Thanks, Mooooose! It was Clutch’s comment 3 hours ago. The one with “see more.” That’s what set off the chain reaction. I was trying to upvote 2hh’s comment about Will Clark.
Well, I see your problem. Upvoting 2hole! Asking for bad karma right there. Begging for it!
My work here is done!
Perhaps GG can pick up where you left off.
That’ll take dish soap to get off.
Vinegar and baking soda
Any post 3 sentences long has “see more”
That’s not true. And the problem isn’t text or one large photo. The problem is caused by posting multiple photos or drawings in the same comment.
Compared to how pictures were loaded or links were left on Extra Baggs aka Giants Extra = http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants/2016/08/09/extra-baggs-buster-posey-amazes-trick-throw-face-music-giants-teammates-awkward-slide/ – the TWG system is using a different system to upload/down-load items. I said “3” sentences for effect but I don’t think if you post a photo without any written word that the “see more” pops up?
2HH’s was a gracious, well phrased, and arrow-deserving post.
Yes, it sure was/is.
Only possible reason for that would be Russian hackers.
I don’t have any problems like that, I guess it’s just you Kid. What I don’t understand is the down vote arrow. It doesn’t work, what’s the point? We should be able to down vote lousy posts (except for mine).
-1
It works. It turns red.
Yes
“Problems” are almost always due to not using the latest version of your browser with disqus or the site. It’s crucial to download the latest version and update it.
New iMac with latest version of the browser. So that’s not it.
Ok, I will look into it. What browser are you using?
So are the Dodgers done? Disqus.
Stick a fork in ’em.
I’ll say. Money problems. Yeah right.
I didn’t look. How many years did they sign Turner for? I bet he doesn’t hit as many home runs the rest of his career as he hit last year.
Andy McCullough reported on twitter earlier today that the Dodgers spent some $192 million on the three of them: Hill, Jansen, and Turner.
That would be about $63M on Turner. LOLOL!!!!
They’ve already done the heavy lifting. Maybe they sign Utley back or just go with younger guys at 2B. They could use an upgrade there and one in a corner OF spot, but they’re probably going to be pretty good as they are. They should keep their trade chips.
Doggone it. I really hoped they’d lose Jansen. I don’t care so much about Hill or Turner because of their ages, but Jansen for 3-5 more years is a pain. I heard he turned down more $$ from the Nats. The Nats are seriously striking out on the free agent market so far. Was it the Cardinals last year who couldn’t get anyone to take their money?
I kept telling everyone Jansen was not going anywhere. Never made sense, he is a Dodger. They stuck with him when many around the league doubted him.
I kept telling everyone that they were still going to spend $$$ on their team!
of course, they have more money than most teams, therefore spend it. Don’t hem and haw over 5M like the Giants seem to do.
Giants should bite effing bullet and get more offense. If Dodgers get Dozier, Giants are going to need some more runs on their ledger.
I think Dodgers will try to use trade chips not named Bellinger and Urias to get Dozier or Forsythe.
Forsythe would add 5 mil AAV to payroll and Dozier 7.5. In the scheme of things, they can afford the additional tax there. Don’t know how successful they will be trying to unload Kazmir or McCarthy.
I heard the Nats offered deferred money and didn’t offer an opt out. So it was more total dollars but present value was equal to or less than the Dodgers offer. Still a huge bummer, I agree with what you said about Turner and Hill. Jansen was the one I was really hoping they’d lose.
The opt out clause appears to be the new big in thing in contracts. So sad that players sign big contracts but look for ways to get out of them just in case their value may increase.
The best thing Bary Bonds did was honor his initial Giant contract with very little complaints even as he was the best ball player and severely underpaid after half the contract was up
The new MacDonalds Christmas cup.
https://twitter.com/SamSykesSwears/status/807750877893169152/photo/1
What did the folks at Micky D’s think it was? I can’t figure out what they foolishly thought it represented. My first thought was the same as I eventually read below.
I bought a cup of hot chocolate for my grandson. It’s a cute cup. It’s a pair of mittens.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CymeWu2UoAATSri.jpg
My bad. Mittens never occurred to me. I may need help.
Some people on the internet can ruin anything.
We see now that someone drew on the cup before tweeting it.
I loved will Clark like no other Giants player, I was of the age when I would go to more games than any point in my life.
That being said, no he is not a HOF because it;s one of those votes you don’t make with your heart.
For a 5 years span he was absolutely a beast. The others he was a very very good player. He needed a couple more seasons at the superior level to get him over the hump.
Agreed down the line. I loved him. I still love him. It makes me happy every time he’s in town and I see him in uniform in the Giants’ dugout. But PS35 had it right. If he’d played longer and/or stayed in better shape while he was playing, maybe the numbers lean his way.
And I think he could’ve played longer. Wasn’t it his final season when McGwire went down for the Cards and Will stepped in and hit like .340 or something ridiculous like that down the stretch?
Puckett and Deer stayed true to their power strokes.
That sounds like a traveling bar band…you and Rob.
The Power Strokes!
A Billy Squier cover band.
Rob said he and a buddy had a bet every year: who would hit more HRs, Puckett or Deer?
I had a Kirby poster in my bedroom. Ashamedly, I also had a Canseco 40-40 poster behind the door for a little while. My sister got it for me from the Sporting Goods store where she worked, where I would later work. I do remember rooting for the Dodgers to beat the A’s in ’88. So as you can tell, or as you already know, I was a mixed up “ute”.
I was living in North Dakota during Kirby Puckett’s career. I know someone from Minnesota who named a cat Kirby (revenge for his wife’s insisting on a cat). Everyone in Twinsland was a Puckett fan, and me too even if not a Giant. An optometrist in Iowa later explained how the glaucoma killed Puckett’s career. And I was really upset when the wife abuse story came out. Still a heck of a hitter, but not much of a role model anymore.
dgg has told the story that her grandson really likes Dee Gordon, whose career can hopefully manage to outlast the drug bust last season.
Puckett was a fan favorite. After the game he would go to his car and if he saw fans waiting for autographs he would stop and sign until the last one was gone. I always liked him because a guy could have a boiler and still play ball. But his status as a person took a hit with me because of the abuse.
Don’t think he would have played longer because he chose to be with family, especially his son who has autism.
What do you think of my other point; that his change in hitting approach was detrimental, he should have stayed the same as he was in the first few years? I never understood why he decided to become more of a singles hitter.
As an aside, I hate it when I agree with Efrain, it’s just not right.
Will had an injury very early in his career that severely curtailed his power. He never really discussed it until post career. So it wasnt as though he “decided” to become a singles hitter (actually more like too much a warning track hitter).
Remember this guy? I think the story goes that we was scheduled for TJ surgery but it got delayed and then he did rest and therapy and avoided the knife…
https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/808491626251354114
Last I heard he said sayonara and played in Japan. Good for him. Loved watching him in Sac. It was too bad he couldn’t replicate in the majors.
Looks like Manny Burris is joining him.
The simple answer is yes– Will Clark belongs in the HOF
http://m.giants.mlb.com/news/article/209864780/will-clark-considered-in-hall-of-fame-vote/
“A closer look at Clark’s statistics, as assembled by MLB.com staffers, could bolster the legitimacy of his case for the Hall. Clark’s skeptics as well as admirers might be surprised to discover how his numbers compare with corresponding stats belonging to existing Hall of Famers — including enshrinees whose names are the most hallowed in Giants history.
Start with some basics regarding Clark’s lifetime figures. He hit .303; the Hall of Fame average is .302. Clark’s batting average would rank him 80th among enshrinees with Buck Ewing, a catcher on the New York Giants’ inaugural 1883 squad.
Many observers claim batting average is a poor indicator of a hitter’s value. Nevertheless, it’s worth pointing out that Clark, who also played for Texas, Baltimore and St. Louis, amassed 8,283 plate appearances. Of the 64 players to bat at least .300 in 8,000 or more plate appearances, 45 are Hall of Famers. The 18 who aren’t, besides Clark, include a trio of active players (Miguel Cabrera, Albert Pujols and Ichiro Suzuki), three others on the current ballot (Vladimir Guerrero, Edgar Martinez and Manny Ramirez) and three more who’ll appear on future ballots (Todd Helton, Derek Jeter and Chipper Jones). Another player in this category is Pete Rose, the all-time hits leader who remains banned from baseball.
According to Kenley Jansen’s agent he resigned with LA for less money because
“At the end of the day Kenley loves Los Angeles, his Dodger family, the fans here… ”
Loser!
If memory serves me right, Scout has stated in the past that Will Clark was the player responsible for his conversion to the Orange and Black ranks, overcoming the handicap of his birthplace. That’s gotta be worth a footnote in the Thrill’s HOF resume, no?
This was the shirt. Where there’s a Will, there’s a way:
http://www.baseballcaricaturetshirts.com/products/1/88730.png
That’s nifty!
When this came out Will was living with other single teammates on Bridge Road San Mateo/Hillsborough and I delivered to that street daily. I bought the Mag and wrote him a note asking him to sign. He wrote back asking what my name was. He said he would only sign by personalizing the To Mike part otherwise people were reselling it.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1d200db54142f6210ffc217a0756f985711c1ad4483f67f8730e9b7f8c1603f.jpg
http://www.si.com/vault/1990/05/28/122052/will-power-with-the-game-on-the-line-giants-first-baseman-will-clark-is-a-formidable-figure-and-the-game-does-not-have-to-be-baseball
Clark’s numbers are about two thirds needed for the hall.
So no.
i love the thrill as much as anyone, but i’m afraid he comes up just a little short. i remember in the late 80’s, my friend, who loved the yankees, and i, would argue who had the better 1st baseman. some years clark had the edge, other years it was donnie 2X. the one thing we both agreed on was that they were both locks to be future HOF’ers. as fate would have it, they both became more and more prone to injuries, and were not able to put up the numbers necessary to get to upstate NY. it’s too bad, because they were both great players when they were firing on all cylinders.
Great example, Steve. If Mattingly isn’t HOF, there’s no way Clark is. Donnie Baseball’s peak was great than The Thrill, he even has an MVP and multiple Gold Gloves to his resume. Mattingly was on first ballot trajectory.
Baseball has a cruel side. Guys like me, DFA’d out of little league, are just the broad end of the funnel that is constantly narrowing. High school ball perhaps, then if you are talented maybe playing at one of the good universities, but you probably still don’t get drafted. Say you do, and get a small signing bonus, and somehow survive the travel in the low A league, and work your way to AA and AAA, and finally make it to a 25man roster. Anyone who gets there is a totally awesome player – no one should ever diss Ehire Adrianza! But you might just be Chris Brown, and never quite make it to the Show. If you do stick on the MLB roster, then you are still hoping to be an All Star, and maybe somehow, HOF and/or do something dramatic in 7th game of the WS. So many levels, and it is hard to conquer them all. Tim Lincecum seems much like Will Clark – oh so very close to an HOF career.
We had a discussion last year about the retired numbers for SF. There seems to be a team policy about only retiring the uniform of HOF players. While that’s overall pretty sensible, #22 and #25 and #55 don’t belong on the field any more.
I never thought the Cardinals would issue #25 to anyone after Big Mac but looks like Dexter Fowler has the honor now …
McGwire’s #25 is tarnished with lies to Roger Maris’ family.
Doesn’t Mike Murphy keep two of those three numbers in his locker?
ClutchUp keeps track of this, but fortunately so do the Googles:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/baseball_uniform_numbers.php?t=SFN
#22 is frequently assigned, eg Matheny and Peavy and Eli Whiteside, but disturbingly, also the one and only Dan Uggla.
Murph is doing a good job with the other two, which have not been assigned since 2007 and 2015.
That’s what I thought. Andrew Baggarly reported in August last year: “Matt Moore will wear 45. Timmy’s 55 off limits, apparently.”
That should have been the same thought process before Mike Murphy and his successors decided to give #22 to other players after Will Clark.
Nice job http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/uniform-numbers.shtml
55 – 22 – 25 but Murph has given out 22 quite a bit
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/uniform-numbers.shtml
This is an incredible post.
I love you
Ta! Together we are Giants.
What your comment brought to mind was how many more baseball players are thrown into the mix of players that eventually go on to play pro baseball over those that have a chance to go on to play other sports professionally, e.g. NBA, NFL, and pro soccer (maybe not professional soccer).
As many players as go through the process as there are and don’t make it, they, at least, have gotten a “good look” before they have to hang it up over players in other sports and that’s pretty amazing.
Just think of the odds to even make it to the show. And for those that do really well, well…
Thankfully we have graduate school co-ed softball as a consolation prize.
Did you mean Gary brown?
Yes, indeed I did, thanks for catching that. WIkipedia says he was with an independent league team last year, so he might be clear out of ball in 2017?
I worked out with and played basketball with a couple of guys who made it to the show for a few weeks. One who is a very good athlete as a catcher said he was there for a few weeks. But he could not hit the slider. The other is was a pitcher and kind of a funny story. Were playing against him in softball and he is playing left field. I’ve known him a long time as he was a stud pitcher in HS. In our game he makes 3 errors and we are giving him a hard time. A month later he is on the cover of SI as part of the A’s bullpen for Billy Martin. We stopped laughing. I’ve seen a lot of talented players from my area get into the minors. But as you know there is a whole different level to advance.
Will Clark is far closer to having Hall of Fame credentials than Lincecum. Lincecum isn’t even in the discussion.
You just discussed him….so, technically speaking, he is in teh
You ever read See No Evil by Bob Baer. Great book, you might enjoy it.
Not yet! Just put it on my list….
Not your discussion …
Hmm. Donnie 2X only played 14 seasons – on paper their stats are interchangeable:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mattido01.shtml
For me there has to be some fairness in the voting. Players like Will and Dale Murphy have numbers that get them close. But when you compare them in their era they fall short. But one has to take into account all the PEDs being used in the same era. As I recall neither player was ever accused of juicing so their numbers are “natural”. For me both should be in the HOF.
it’s hard for anyone in time to go back and show proof of anything.
Like Clark, Dale Murphy was one of my favorite players.
But it’s still a select club, not the club of “players I like” and should stay that way.
Heyman tweet:
Jon Heyman ✔ @JonHeyman
Emmanuel burriss signs minors deal with nats
Where’s Eugenio going?
He had Hall of Fame intangibles and a crazy beautiful swing. His peak was too short though. Man, I loved watching him play.
I hope I never forget those last four games of the 1993 season in LA, with the Giants needing all four. Clark hit and hustled his way through the first three games, showing amazing grit. Then it was all left to Salomon Torres, and it was over.
Barry didn’t show up that weekend…I remember that.
Wrong, 2 HRs a double to win a game is nothing to you , with 5 RBI, he had tn 1 of those games
Why oh why didn’t they go with Scott Sanderson? Where was the Bochy, “All Vets All the Time” principle? Developing itself somewhere in SD about then? Maybe it was seeing that game that sold him?
BTW: Sorry you took such a beating in the MyGuy™ rankings this year. You will always have the Inaugural Season as your claim to fame.
Thanks very much. And thanks for the honorable mention in the article you wrote. Very good history of how it all came to be, too. Gonna make myself a championship banner or something I can hoist. Hahaha.
For me it was the single up the middle against the Cubs to drive in the go ahead run in the clincher. What a battle. The radio call became part of KNBR’s “We built this city” montage.
Here’s a little blurbish article from dgg’s guy, on the Dodgers. I think the comment section may be more entertaining that the article. Ahh yes, sprinkling a dash of politics into sporting discourse. Which reminds me, if the world is going off a proverbial cliff, why not manage your baseball team with an Armageddon ethos; debt be damned we’re gonna win the West and another World Series. Get it done, Bobby Evans, there’s no tomorrow*, splurge on a guy that can smack the ball around !
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-the-future-dodgers-are-downright-scary-054109774.html
*End of the world may occur sometime between one year from now and 200 years from now – your mileage may seriously vary.
Could get real sick of seeing Cubs vs Dodgers in the next few years.
And when talking $$, it’s more accurate to say get er done ownership.
Maybe 2017 is the last real good chance to stick it to the Dodgers.
Good point. With the end of the world coming soon, this may be the last season of MLB. Hopefully, we’ll all be able to make it through the World Series and crown one final champion. On a positive note, that could potentially make the Giants the reigning World Champions forever. Then, I guess it would be nice to have one more holiday season, but that might be stretching things. Probably the best we can all hope for is to make it to January, 2018.
Like I said, somewhere between one and 200 more seasons of baseball before it’s curtains. So maybe Evans should get JD Martinez, just in case…
Happy Festivus, Oracle.
More interesting question for me now is what do Posey and Bum have to do to secure their place in Cooperstown?
Posey first needs to rebound from his most ordinary season ever.
His Gold Glove Season? He set the bar pretty tall starting in 2010.
Bob Boone isn’t in the Hall of Fame. If Posey makes it, it’ll be primarily because of his bat.
Carlton Fisk ?
I think Ted Simmons belongs in the HOF.
21 seasons, .285 (driven down by his last Mendoza yr.), 248 HRs, SW, great D.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml
As I remember no one was ever going to award Simmons a Gold Glove. His defense was a little weak. One of my favorite players growing up but had to be compared his whole career with Bench. So he may have been better than I remember.
Fisk played 24 seasons and hit 376 HRs.
That is nice. Maybe Carlton will be there when Buster puts his jacket on…
Posey’s three championships, no-hitter, perfect game, MVP, and overall defensive excellence just may have something to do with his chances of getting into the Hall of Fame…
TO will easily debunk this line of thinking.
Perhaps… I knew I really went out on a limb with my reasoning….
For TO – Buster has always been too soft while wearing the tools of ignorance.
Championships matter, MVP and defensive excellence matter quite a bit, catching no-hitters and a perfect game don’t matter at all. Who caught Nolan Ryan’s 7 no-hitters? They are pitchers’ accomplishments. Posey is off to a great start, but he needs to keep going.
Do you have a 2017 Posey projection?
PAs, triple slash, HRs, RBIs…
I don’t claim that knowledge. He slipped a bit in 2016. It happens. Johnny Bench had a down 1971 in between MVP seasons in 1970 and 1972. Posey wasn’t as good in 2013 after his MVP 2012, but stepped it up in 2014 and 2015. Hopefully, 2016 wasn’t the start of a trend.
Tell me if this sounds reasonable :
600 PAs, .300/.360/.450, 15 HRs, 85 RBIs
That’s certainly reasonable.
Not good enough, just a little better then his 2016 season .
little high on slugging and average. If he is going to be catcher as he was last year with little first base, that batting average would likely be the low to mid 280’s again. He is under .300 for his career as a catcher and will be playing tired and dinged up again.
He’ll keep rolling …
Bum is a lock if he plays at least another 5 years and wins another 70 games or so. You read it here first!
They both have 3 rings, with perhaps a couple more to come, now just stay on the field and produce to their standards.
Now that they have the rings, it will come down to a combination of the obvious: numbers + longevity
But we should all remember, HE HAD A BAD INJURY YOUNG and no one knows if the effects will worsen over time.
Still think of it this way, if he is part of 3 WS champs and perhaps a couple more rings then that much better for Giants nation. If he gets in or not it won’t diminish his value on the field and to this team.
Know your pitchers? You might enjoy this quiz.
http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/12/12/211008102/quiz-can-you-name-the-pitcher-from-his-delivery?partnerId=as_mlb_20161213_68688106&adbid=808664246116491265&adbpl=tw&adbpr=241544156
Thanks…that was fun. I only missed the last one…others seemed pretty clear.
OFF Topic – This women might have gotten confused … thought she was shopping at Walmart
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2016/12/13/woman-physically-dragged-flight-metro-airport/95369236/
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/808756886266843136
Now if Posey just won’t mosey.
that’s very good to hear. he wants to spend as much time as he can, getting to know his new mates. i think we’re going to like this guy. the bar is set pretty low, so he better clear by a lot. when i say a lot, think bob beamon, long jump, mexico city, ’68.
Wow, I notice the Will Clark fans blame Barry Bonds coming to the Giants ,for the Giants not bringing Will Clark back in 1994, not caring that Bonds almost won the triple crown in 1993, and Clark only hit .283, 14 HRs, 73 RBI in 1993 . One of the Will fans even posted Barry did nothing in the final series of the year vs the Dodgers , when he actually had one of his greatest games as a Giant in that series, hit 2 HRs and a double drove in at least 5 runs in a comeback win vs the Dodgers .
Blame is the incorrect word….
I guess .
The difference between San Jose-Sacramento-Augusta and other levels versus the Show is that ML pitchers MUST pitch inside. Pitchers must see and pitch to a “lane” between the hitter and home plate effectively jamming hitters where they stand in the box. Many of SF’s high Velo guys cannot do this right now….
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5dbc382a64f9eef4c3f09f53cd5d2bea1c183932b3a1f1038b106e60b68fe446.jpg
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