by
Greek Giant
Tonight’s Game: American League Vs National League at Marlins Park, 8pm
Chris Sale Vs. Max Scherzer
The 2017 All Star Game is upon us. Thank God for that. The first half could not have been worse for the Giants.
I always loved the All Star Game. I have very special, profound memories of previous Mid-Summer classics as a boy, watching great moments like Dave Parker throwing out a runner at home in 1979 to save the game with the help of a great tag by Gary Carter.
This year’s contest is in Miami, the largest Hispanic city in the World and the capital of Hispanic America. It may be the last time Marlins Park is filled before Jeffrey Loria, the most-hated owner in baseball, sells the team for gazillions in profit.
For the Giants, there were many great games.
This year Buster Posey is the lone representative of our team. I expect him to go deep and drive in 4 runs, throw out two runners and win the MVP.
Melky’s MVP in 2012
Willy Mays All Star Game Memories
Go National League!
Breckaroni says, “GG check your “many great games” link … You have been hacked.”
black humor is indeed all we have to fall back on!
That’s a funny-as-hell headline, Greekster!
to the last thread: The late debate regarding Gorkys is, in my mind, misguided. I know Oracle is completely obsessed with the fact that Hernandez is on the roster…but the reality is, he is a decent 5th outfielder. I know that TO is too invested on his narrative to admit that, but the MLB landscape is full of guys like Gorkys: battler who will never be good enough to be a starter, but is a piece needed.
The issue is the right choice for LF, both short and long term. The answer WAS Slater. He’s hurt. They tried about 10 others prior. They decided those 10 were not the answer. Gorkys is simply warming the seat….it might be Parker (I know he had a setback). It might be Shaw? Who knows. A trade might happen.
But the team has NOT decided Gorkys is the left fielder. He is a poor man’s Blanco filling a void that we hope is very temporary. Getting so worked up over THAT? On a team that is in last place with about 15 other gigantic issues? Oy.
“Oy” is right. All decisions have demonstrated they have costs small and large. Fighting over one issue on a 15-issue team is fruitless handwringing.
I see both sides of the argument but I thought the bloggers were grossly unfair to Hernandez. He is what he is, a 5th outfielder. He’s had his moments. I also understand the frustration in sending Mac down. Let’s see what he can do.
Jim, he’s hitting .215 with an OPS+ of 64 and a wRC+ of 63. His Defensive Runs Saved is -9. His Baseball Reference WAR is -1.3, and his Fangraphs WAR is -.4. That is not a fifth outfielder. That is not a major leaguer. He does nothing well, he never has, and he’s 30 years old and not a prospect. Why is he on the team at all? Why is he getting playing time? What part of that is “grossly unfair”?
I get the point that he’s the least of the Giants’ problems. But the fact that somehow Gorkys Hernandez has 178 plate appearances while Mac Williamson, one of the two guys Bobby Evans said would compete for the left field job this year, has 35, is evidence of the kind of head-up-the-a** decision-making that has put this organization into dire straits. It’s not the only evidence. There’s also everything Aaron Hill and trading a $6 million international prospect and a fan favorite 3B for Matt Moore and spending way too much money for Mark Melancon, and I could go on. But Gorkys is a poster child for all the awful mistakes Bochy and Evans have made this year. Maybe he’s one of several poster children, but he’s absolutely on the poster.
Maybe “a bit unfair”? Look I get it but he was getting on base during the six game winning streak. Craw wasn’t. That said, I agree 100% on Mac. Makes no sense why he’s not here. The worst case scenario for Evans and the rest of the Giant’s BRASS is to think they somehow still have a shot at that second wild card. If they leave trades on the table and don’t use this opportunity to assess players like Mac, we’ll be in the exact same mess the Phillies are in.
Stop being honest.
Yeah, Atlantis!
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5356b2c8eab8ead36e9bb143-800-600/miami-43.jpg
I bought a plot in the Coalinga Beachfront Estates. I’m good to go….
Time share or burial spot?
Matthew was taken for a ride by a mortgage broker in the 2006 balloon-payment/liar’s loans era. That’s how he bought his plot in Coalinga. Carnival barkers fool Matthew.
As Eleuthero notes, I was sold on a multi level ocean front mansion with the promise that by 2021, I would see enough climate change to realize positive equity.
Good one,,Lon. O btw, thanks for those choice photos of Willie 24 and friends.
Anytime Russ
Miami’s plight is dire because we’re still increasing atmospheric CO2 and won’t turn it around remotely in time to stanch temperature rise. This NASA graph shows where we are without the slightest doubt since it’s based on 500,000 years of CO2 data based on ice core samplings. The accompanying article is very short and worth the read.
https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/
remember 350.org and Bill McKibben? Dude, it’s more like 500ppm.org nowadays.
We’re steaming toward that 500 ppm as we speak. I simply cannot believe that any person who believes in science can be a warming denier. The freaking Arctic Ocean barely has any ice left. Used to take Soviet Icebreakers to cross that Ocean. Now, icebreakers are obsolete.
Get out of Arizona while you can!
I’ll get out when a tsunami threatens Phoenix. I expect a casual wait.
In all seriousness, I think the deserts have borne a disproportionate amount of global warming all over the world (like Persian Gulf, Saudi, etc.). The June we just had down here was the 3rd warmest month ever. Not the 3rd warmest June. Month.
Yes it was a little warm last month in Phoenix but I hadn’t heard about it being the 3rd warmest month ever. Wow.
Trying to get the wife to agree to move to Maui but she doesn’t want to be that far from our son and his wife who live in Phoenix also.
Here’s some consolation about a move to Phoenix. 110 in Phoenix feels like 103 at 8% humidity (ambient June afternoon level). However, Miami at 91 degrees (July/Aug average) at Miami’s ambient 70% humidity feels like 109 yet how often do you hear “Searing Florida heat causes record heat strokes!!” Thus, though the “dry heat” line has become something of a joke, it’s absolutely true so it’s a scientifically unfounded joke.
I really don’t mind the heat. I just played golf today. Teed off about 9:30 am and got done about 11:00 am so not too bad. But the weather in Maui is something I could get used to very quickly.
Different strokes for different folks. I find Hawaii too humid and sticky on the skin. Here in the desert, sweat tends to evaporate from the skin so you just feel baking warmth. However, during our Monsoon Season, the humidity rises from July 7 onward through August. It lowers the temperatures but hardly betters the comfort levels.
Actually … my bad. I looked up Honolulu, not Maui temps. Hell, if I got used to Maui temps I’d NEVER move!!
It’s beautiful there. A little expensive but paradise is expensive.
I was watching Anthony Boudain’s food show on Netflix the other night about Molokai. It was nice there too.
For a day or two, flights were canceled because the air temperature exceeded 118, the limiting temperature for many jet aircraft to fly.
Yup. Air density is too low for them to take off.
Was that it? They were never clear on why.
Humans are apparently quite capable of “willful ignorance”, and this is one of the topics where the numbers of such specific individuals is extra large.
I agree that the number in the “willful ignorance” category is unusually large. I believe that the huge growth in these numbers in the Rust Belt states which got Trump elected is the fastest growing willful ignorance club. Trump is a wimpy climate change denier.
So where is Mar lago?
Don’t you mean Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s estate in Palm Beach? Well, as a Trump hater I’m hoping for a fast sinking but I fear he won’t be drowned in time.
I don’t hate him, I just think him a corrupt criminal. It would be right, IMO, for Bernie Maddof to share his current tailor and hotelier with Mr. Trump.
I do hate him but his bullying has earned him nearly universal shunning at the G20 meeting. Shunning is THE most effective tactic to fight an ego that size. Trump tries to limit liability through info blackouts. He’s the least accessible President ever. So far he’s an artful dodger but I maintain he can’t keep it up for 4 years. He’ll spend half his time rationalizing cabinet/staffer firings/quittings.
The NYTimes articles over the weekend and today were blockbusters, IMO. Junior basically admitted to collusion with the Russians, or the intent to do so. Read them if you haven’t had the chance.
I shall read them with dispatch!! CNN will be plenty to report the collateral damage.
Just checked CNN. Junior is all over the top headlines. Now I gotta get the details.
Just checked the Rob Goldstone email. If that isn’t blatant admission of election meddling, I don’t know what is.
It’s unfortunate that the Fox News watchers haven’t heard anything about any of this stuff. Willful ignorance, really.
Fox is about as “fair and balanced” as a teeter-totter with a 600 lb. weight on one end.
Right.
I read many of the articles and I can’t see how the Wriggler wriggles out of this.
Might be a good time to drive down the Keys once more…
When I was a kid growing up in SSF there was a house a few blocks from ours with a pink caddy parked in front. The story at the time was that Willie’s sister or sister-in-law lived there and he received the car as part of his reward for being the 1965 MVP and he gave it to her. Never confirmed if it was true or not. The other local legend growing up was that the band Santana first started rehearsing back in the mid-60’s just a block over from us. Six degrees of separation? I can neither confirm or deny either story. 🙂
Giants Futures … Some Bright Spots in the Midnight Sky Called the 2017 Season
Ryan Howard … Fifth Rounder last year is already playing in San Jose showing a 78% MyGuyImprovement™
Chris Shaw … First Round 2015 now in Sac and showing a 56% MyGuyImprovement™ this year.
Aramis Garcia … Second Round 2014 now in SJ showing a 50% MyGuyImprovement this year.
Austin Slater … Eighth Round 2014; 108 PA’s in MLB with .290/.430 and 0.4 WAR
Congrats AHS as you have 3 of these 4 Tall Giants. Good chance of taking the lead in MyGuy™ at the halfway point.
I am concerned that Slater’s injury is a career impacting which would be a shame.
Greek – you do realize in overall Latino numbers Miami is somewhere between 8-10? NYC is #1.
But yes, Latino culture is prevalent in Miami more so than any other city in the states I’ve visited. Actually feels more Latin then say Cancun.
Livan Hernandez files for bankruptcy. Amazing how many go through the millions they earned so quickly.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/longtime-mlb-pitcher-livan-hernandez-files-bankruptcy-173353910.html
After watching the all star softball game last night, he certainly hasn’t missed any meals.
Had way too big of an entourage back home.
His regular season career was stellar. His All Star game moments were legendary.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3ed9694fa417f74ca68aef702209b4299a27f5bf3517be592aa92b1d26f4d357.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a3211ae7b8d8d4bfd2ce52174c6af0fd25d16b56e0042d70691fceeaf12220cd.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0c0c38c558a8712e7afbe2ccf407d3af685c3b1f0f5030f9a0d92f41cc31f1cb.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e90cca48877375bbb7be73d521b05fe583544cfe894a59f0372cdf0e33d889ce.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0d1ae6d73d8ff478b3756f351125d36189086c73597e81d4a97fa99afae2341a.jpg
He could, indeed, play a little ball. Thanks for the pix.
May I offer this observation?:
Bebe got back
You can’t miss it, seeing as how her pants looked as though they were painted on her.
JUAN!!!!!!!!!!
Yes! The Dominican Dandy!
The Baby Bull!
This is really cool. Chokes me up.
OK, now I’m crying. Wow.
The great ones do; especially The Dominican Dandy and Baby Bull. Hits me all the time.
I remember watching the 1999 AS game when they brought out Ted Williams and 2007 AS game when the Say Hey kid walked in from CF.
Interesting looking at the NL lineup. As far as first place teams, no Bums (yay!!!), no Brewers, 3 Nats plus Scherzer starting.
No Cubs.
Yeah, but they’re not in first.
True, but considering how they overloaded the team last year, it is rather pleasing.
Agree totally.
Yea, some good baseball about to commence.
Garghh
Did Buster forget his gear?
He sure looks weird in blue.
He said it’s Father’s Day blue. Under Armor supplied his gear, since he’s under contract with them. But yeah, it does look weird.
Gosh, it never occurred to me that it was his own choice not to sport the Orange.
So you actually think MLB let’s the ASG chose what they wear? Are you for real?
And the psycho, Chris Sale is starting for the AL. This sport forgives.
Nice post GG. I flashed back to Summer Tuesday afternoons, when we came inside the house so we could watch the all-star game. The great NL stars we knew, admired and loved, as well as the AL stars we never saw much. The NL usually won, and often our Giants were essential contributors.
As soon as the game was over, we’d get back on our bikes and go play baseball. When they moved the game to evenings that evolved into wiffle ball in the backyard. A better and simpler time.
The way that ball hooked foul is the way this season’s gone.
Who is gonna be right? Smoltz? Oracle?
I vote Smoltz
TO’s not wrong abut wanting Harper on the Giants – nifty dive there.
Who wouldn’t want one of the 2-3 best players in the game on their team. If you really watch baseball (and only Giants games don’t count) Harper is one of the best all tool players in decades.
TO and I agree on that. I would take that kid in a nanosecond
Mine was on – Buster Posey …Hall of Fame
About what?
Gerald Posey III – Hall Of Fame
What I said about Posey was that he couldn’t quit right now and be a lock for the Hall of Fame. I also said he was on a good track toward making it. I never said that he wouldn’t end up there. But you are so totally, head-over-heels in love with the guy that you are hyper-sensitive to anything that doesn’t fall in line with your view of him. Be honest here…when was the last time you dreamed about him?
Why do you constantly pull that “in love” weak sauce? Because I think he’s a Hall of Famer? Because I remind of his accolades? You’re quite the piece of work. “Dreamed about him”. Glad you got your usual upvote on that one, big fella!
Buster! Hall bound!!! Nice back track!!!
I didn’t back track at all. At no time did I say he wouldn’t end up in the Hall of Fame.
He’s still got some work to do. But what if his numbers decline next year? What if an injury disrupts his season and his aptitude? I can’t put the lock on him either.
No Hall of Famer could….
Your daughter has photos of him
Better get off the field A-Rod!
Hair flip? Seriously?
And the hair! Need a big jar of mustard to cover that hot dog.
Breck girl
Are you decent? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fd6bea3b4965595f0cf74bab4d2c5d4057ab773320f49fafbff73ff990e8d116.gif
Not a fan of ARod running around the field but Harper miked up is good TV.
You probably shouldn’t qualify “not a fan of Arod” with the “running around…” bit.
Very interesting Baggs read on Sabean. “That to me is a sign of our total ineptitude.”
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/11/giants-executive-brian-sabean-reacts-to-this-seasons-total-ineptitude-sketches-out-trade-deadline-strategy/
Good schtuff.
Joe Panik not on Sabes’ do not trade list. That’s scary. at least to me.
I always figured Sabes always knew the Giants weren’t as good as some pretended even when they were winning. That doesn’t diminish the accomplishment and the glory at ALL, but it does surprise me that they did so little to fix problems since a year ago at this time.
REALLY interesting. I read this that los Gigantes are not gonna sit on their hands the next three weeks. But if they have no trade chips, or pesos to spend, what to do? Panik and Belt shouldn’t unpack when they return from San Diego.
So, this game is not being played for any marbles, correct?
Correct
Hair flip failure.
I’m in love🎼
With my Buster!🎼
Back off Oracle…he’s mine!
I bet you’re the one that has to kill the spiders.
I’m rooting for Blackmon. Do to the AL what you do to us.
Could Arenado maybe try to take 2nd on a flyout next time we play them?
He’d have to stop at first before he could do that.
Ouch!
Oh cringe… some white guy fan sitting near the front is wearing tribal headwear. Ugh. Did he wander in from a themed frat party?
The guy behind the plate in the knight armor at the same party.
A little gaudy for Game of Thrones.
Didn’t Hunter Pence or somebody get in trouble for wearing overly orange shoes? Yadier’s costume is deserving of ejection from the ASG?
Brian Wilson had to tone his down with a magic marker. A fashion ejection sounds pretty harsh.
Good memory!
That chest protector is pretty awful. Glad he looks normal in the batting box. Maybe we can leave him in the game…
Molina looks like the Midas Man behind home plate.
C3PO
Oh thank goodness, a homer to shut Maddon up.
Nope, didn’t work, either.
I had to mute it once he started talking again
That is what backspin looks like
Hall of Fame in the modern day has a fuzzy guideline of 60 WAR to be very strong candidate. Guys with less make it, guys that clear the bar stand real good chance of entry, but not locks to get in. Jeff Kent finished with 56 WAR. He’s on the bubble and may drop off the ballot. Pudge Rodriguez finished with 69 WAR. Posey is currently at 36 WAR. It seems safe to say he has some work to do. And that he won’t have to cross the 60 WAR threshold, but getting in the 50’s, sure helps. An MVP and three rings certainly helps his cause. This is not an exact science.
And I can’t forget the case of Yadier Molina. 34 WAR and doesn’t stand to get too far past 40 if at all. Gold gloves help his cause. Not an exact science.
Excellent info, Foots. Thank you.
I think you need a long career, with good numbers throughout, and then the “bling” like postseason success. Madison Bumgarner’s Hall chances seem better than Buster’s, assuming that left shoulder is OK. But Buster is a good ‘un, for sure, no matter what happens.
In all honesty, The Hall just doesn’t do it for me like it used to. It’s a big hall, getting bigger. I liked it better when everybody was in the Ken Burns series 🙂
There’s an awful lot of guys on the 500 HR list, compared to the good old days of my youth. That number does seem debased a bit.
True that. Back in the day we could recite the 500+ HR hitters in order, and how many they hit. Same with 3,000 hit and 300 win guys. Not anymore.
300 wins has gone the other way, more or less inconceivable we’ll get another. Or 30 win in a season, which was terrific, but at least a possibility. Has anyone won 25 lately?
I mean…this is more of an issue with time, yes? There are tons of things I used to be able to name. Title lineages in boxing, in wrestling, full rosters of Giants teams, tracks in order on my favorite albums…but they were all learned in youth, when you have minimal responsibilities in life. And you get older, and you learn knew things, but those original things you memorized don’t stop. It doesn’t seem to indicate anything about the game has gotten less special to me, just indicates life has gotten different.
Sullied waters.
Post season success has very little to do with it.
It should. The goal is to win championships. Or at least that’s what I believe makes a player, along with individual superior talent. What else is there? What are they playing for?
so I guess all those Giants that played in the past without winning championships don’t deserve to be in the Hall?
That’s pretty hypocritical don’t you think?
Absolutely not. Wasn’t referring to them at all. My belief is the greatest players are the ones who do the most and give everything to win titles. Are you coming from a Kershaw is the greatest ever angle? Because he has failed when his team needed him most. Bumgarner? I’ve never seen a player give more when it mattered most.
So I guess in your brain Livian Hernandez is a HOF?
I guess Ernie Banks doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall?
whatever dude, you now you’re wrong.
What’s with the Livan comparison? I’m stating that it’s not just pure talent and regular season numbers. It’s going that much further when the body aches and the brain screams after 162 long ass games. The ones who do have talent in the regular season to give their teams a chance in the first place, but then push it to the furthest finish line to win it all, are the giants, pun greatly intended. What could be more difficult or more HOF-worthy than pushing it through all the way to the ring?
that’s a long response that basically says nothing but gibberish.
Check your history fool, Livian pitched lights out in the WS for the Marlins and he was never ever really the best pitcher in baseball.
That’s why end of season awards are decided before the WS, and why the post season has it’s own awards.
There are plenty of HOF that were on teams where they never had the opportunity to win a WS ring.
Wow, you call me a fool? Come on, E. Do you really have to name call? When have I ever given you reason to be so rude? Just because you don’t agree? And “gibberish?” Let me clarify. I’m talking about the elite, HOF-worthy talent players (once again, NOT LIVAN HERNANDEZ, whom you have such a massive hard-on to continue to use in your rebuttals), and what they do in the post-season. As an example, Bumgarner, vs. your guy, Clayton Kershaw. Do you really think that Bumgarner’s triumphs, and specifically his Superman performance in single-handedly winning the 2014 WS, vs. Kershaw’s utter PS failures shouldn’t be counted? Seriously?
of course it should, BUT Bum is currently is not even as close a lock for the HOF that Kershaw is, and that’s pure and simple based on the numbers. IF he continues to pitch as well as he has, he needs to keep the performance level up. Kershaw has proven to keep it going for a long time and still pitching at a high level.
The Livian reference could be made about multiple players in history that have had great post seasons and have won rings, that does not mean they should be in a HOF conversation.
Sure you’re entitled to your opinion, but I think your are wrong and history of HOF voting has proved that. It’s not the Hall of guys with rings right? HOF candidates need to not only play at a high level, but they have to do it for an extended period of time.
You have a woody for Bum and his great post season run, which is all fine and dandy, but if he doesn’t pitch for the next 5-10 years as well as he has, the NO, he is not HOF worthy.
Ok…Understood more fully. It’s hard enough to kick ass all your career and also find your way to a PS. Then even more difficult to win it all. But it is a team sport. What I found just a bit galling was yours and TO’s discounting of PS performances in assessing an already HOF player’s HOF worth as compared to other similarly talented players. What we did not initially touch base on was the fact that I was talking about HOF talented players in the first place. Then what they did in the PS. I wasn’t talking about putting dudes with rings in the HOF just bc they killed it in the PS.
What I think is truly underrated and misrepresented in assessing a player’s worth, and possibly HOF worth, is the PACING it takes to perform well enough in the regular season, but having enough in the tank to slam it home to win a championship in the PS. This is what I think Bum possesses over Kershaw, and if you consider that bias, so be it. But there is something to be said for knowing what it takes to pace oneself mentally and physically to crushing it in the PS. Bum may have that over just about any player I’ve ever seen. And that’s HOF-worthy to me.
I get it, but still it’s not the Hall of Great Pacing lol.
Listen, as a Giants fan I love Bum and would hope he one day makes the HOF, but he needs the numbers. I really like Kershaw and watching him pitch because he is one of the best pitchers of this generation and his numbers are right there with some of the best in history already. Are Bums? He is close, but quite not there. And even still with 3 rings, he needs the numbers.
But hey, think of it this way……if he does not make the HOF he can make the Hall of TheSincere. That will make you happy.
“The Hall of Great Pacing.” Oh that is supreme. “The Hall of TheSincere.” You outdid yourself in one post.
You will be saddened to know that I committed major whiskey hari kari a few weeks ago. I bought two 1.75 bottles of Bulleit Rye and threw em in the back seat. I went to the grocery store and did some shopping. When I was done I left the store to a major downpour. Absolutely monsooning. So I grabbed all 15 bags in both hands and raced to my car. Opened the back seat, and I swear to the maker, one of the bottles of Bulleit Rye found its way to the floor and the door.
And…in slow motion…it fell. It broke. And met its demise. $60 right down the toilet.
NOW you can unload on me lol.
oh I feel for you on that one!!!!!!!!
1.75?! That’s doing it big.
I usually only get .750ml since I tend to like to jump around from Bourbon to Rye, and brand to brand depending on the weather, the mood, etc.
I always get 1.75, man. It’s so much more a honey of a deal. Much more bang for the buck. I always get two bc I have two places of residence, so I like to park one of those mofos in each place.
But the hilarious epilogue to that story is, I had to penalize myself for such an egregious instance of alcohol abuse. So to recoup the $60 I lost, this time at the liquor store I bought a 1.75 of Kraken Rum, and a 1.75 of Ezra Brooks. Saved the $60 I would have usually spent on two bigguns of B. Rye. I had to crack the whip on what I did.
It was better than self-flogging with a mace. Although I deserved that too.
copy and pastes youtube link to Fool in the Rain – fastforward to the part where Pagey opens it up!
Evenin, son. Which link?
In the evening….(that riff!) when the day is done…
Juan Marichal and Willie McCovey never played on a World Series winner. Neither did Barry Bonds, but it would be pretty hard to argue that he wasn’t one of the best players in the history of the game. Neither did Ted Williams.
I agree. It’s much more than just the player, but when the player does get there, it’s much more important to play well. Please see my above reply. Stating post-season success doesn’t factor into it shouldn’t possess any validity. That’s a ridiculous statement, even if it’s true in the minds of HOF voters. Let’s talk about talent AND playing their best when the chips are down. Not just the ones who never played in the post-season. People like Jeter, Bumgarner, and not players like Kershaw, who although is certainly the cream of his pitching crop, and one of the greatest of all time, must be held accountable for not pacing himself to perform his best when it mattered most. Not just mediocre, either, but horrible.
How about Willie Mays in the post season: .247/.323/.337/.660, with 1 HR in 89 ABs?
How about Buster Posey: .248/.323/.325/.648?
My initial aim was not to highlight the shortcomings of athletes that don’t kill it in the PS. To say Mays wasn’t HOF or even possibly the greatest player of all time is foolish, and not what I was centering on.
My point was to highlight the ones who are HOF worthy and excel in the PS from superior mental and physical pacing. Specifically, Bum vs. Kershaw. The season is a long, grinding one. Couple that with high level games against elite teams in the PS, and to me it’s those, like Bumgarner that must be noticed for such a feat of excellence. Again, what’s the point of playing if not to pace for a championship? Is it all about stats and awards, or is it about what it takes to win titles?
A player has little control of where he plays, at least for the first half of his career. For much of the history of baseball, players had zero control. Ernie Banks never played in a post season game, but truly was a Hall of Famer. Willie Mays played on one World Series winner, but compiled poor numbers in the post season. While post season success certainly can’t hurt, the Hall of Fame is primarily about a player’s regular season performance.
I agree with the Banks portion, not the Mays one. These guys have one purpose, and that’s to win it all. That’s the only reason they play. Each and every one of them would tell you that. And when you fail when it matters most, it has to detract from a player’s career. Doing everything to become a champion is the definition of a player.
Actually you are wrong, Buster is more in a HOF trajectory than Bum.
Has won more personal awards and is regarded with Molina as one of the best catchers of his generation.
Bum has been good but there are pitchers in his generation with better numbers, more awards, etc.
The thought that the WAR stat is actually considered is scary.
“fuzzy guideline” and “actually considered” aren’t exactly hand in hand.
Consider it a yard stick by outsiders. High performance over long period of time equates to high WAR. Not rocket science.
I guess I’m just Stat Stupid
Why is it scary? Who do you feel it overrates/underrates?
Because I’ve seen anecdotal WAR numbers posted on here for certain players that make me scratch my head….meaning its like a Quarterback rating that seems to take a bunch of random stats and put them into a KitchenAid blender and pour them out into some gospel.
No…I’m not going to dive into some research project to “prove” one way or the other…it just seems baseball is becoming enamored with data nerds that are missing too much of the beauty and raw talent results that are what draw us to the sport.
That’s all…just an Old Guy Gut Feel
The Black-Scholes Formula of baseball.
I really dislike the trend of “data nerds” getting criticized just for liking a different aspect of the game. I love data. But I love this data because I love baseball. I watch as much baseball as anyone here, but many times in life I’ve been brushed aside for “not watching the game the right way”. I think it’s a lazy, insulting response. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing here, but it definitely happens. It’s typically used to invalidate an opinion without having a concrete reason. I’m obsessed with the game, I love numbers. And I cannot see any kind of “beauty” that I might be missing. Baseball – like every other sport – is enamored with data because it’s where the world is headed. Teams can figure out so many more things about a player than at any time in history. In life, I’m a guy who fears change. And yet looking at fangraphs pages now feels no different to me than the 100s of hours I spent memorizing baseball cards in my room as a kid.
Oh, I know how much you love it, and respect that. I’m the one with the non-data bias in many cases. And I know which way the game is headed. Just stating my opinion about WAR
Is there any other player besides Kent who leads his position in home runs not in the HOF?
How’s Bonds lookin’?
He don’t count.
where does Big Mac stand among 1Bs? 583.
Dunno, he don’t count, either
I mean, Pudge somehow made it in, so everybody else should count. Pudge by far the most obvious roids guy in the HOF.
Is the bleached hair a solidarity or fashion thing? In cycling, it means you’re trying to beat the PED tests.
Puerto Rican team solidarity from the WBC. Even Angel went blonde.
College teams always do it
Moms go crazy
Turner is even better looking than Richard Gere’s Gerbil
Aloha Mr. Hand!
Dude is gonna be traded somewhere for pretty good prospect/s.
Sweet Tony Perez!
Free National Slurpee day at 7-11
07-11-17
Love how every date this week is the same front and backward. A palindrome dream.
this is a crappy rendition of god bless america.
Yep. Just once they should play the music, put the words on the scoreboard, and encourage the fans to sing. Once that happened, I think it would happen more often.
You missed the Star Spangled Banner, botched.
Also bad, indeed.
Yeah, I caught both songs, and boy, there were some challenges. Not the easiest thing to sing in front of 10-15 million people, though I’ve never done it.
1594 to 743 over 14 and 9 seasons respectively.
That is games started behind the dish for Yadier Molina and Gerald Buster Posey III.
(`14/9)*743 projects to 1,156 games for Buster. Hmm, that Yadier is no sissy! Buster did miss a lot of one season with that broken ankle, but still, those Molina boys were/are all tough.
This contest has a loose affiliation with the actual game of baseball. The best arms airing it out for an inning a piece. The equivalent of facing a top closer every inning. No flow. Just battle of max arm speed vs. max bat speed. On to the next inning. Will this affair end in a tie?
Good leadoff sentence. A tie is a reasonable outcome for a game that is just a spectacle anyway.
I’m kind of afraid some %&^$-blasted Dodger might do something heroic for the NL.
MLB and the NBA used to have great All Star games. Now neither does.
They do attempt to play defense in the MLB.
I hear the Pro Bowl is the best.
I like High Sierra Music Fest. Lotta great players..
It is what it is: pure entertainment. I thought the interview with Harper while he played was fun…then I switched and watched the new KD video on YouTube cuz it’s a slow exhibition game.
Real baseball with MyGorkys on Friday. Hang in there
And Bumgarner on Saturday, right?
Some dude named Devenski is an All Star.
I need to get out more often
Was thinking the same thing…
He was on Seinfeld
Devenski is amazing. I don’t know if I could even name 5 Giants relievers who have had a two year stretch like his. Special player, hope his unique role doesn’t burn him out.
Alonzo is headed yonder…Billy probably speed dialing as we speak
Yankees would be a good spot
I like him
David Forst = Bobby Evans
Billy Beane = Bryan Sabean
Brian Sabean = Bryan Sabean?
Now rooting for the A.L.
Is this a potential Bud Selig Memorial Tie Game ? Are they calling it if they’re tied after 9?
Too bad McCutchen got off to such a slow start
Sorry if someone linked this already, but here are Sabean’s views on where they stand (spoiler alert…Bochy’s doing great):
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/11/qa-with-giants-executive-brian-sabean-weve-forgotten-how-to-win/
Yep
Bochy doesn’t throw or hit the ball
So he gets no credit for the championships, either, right? Can’t have it both ways.
Well, not from someone who calls him a moron and idiot and Can’t. Stand. Him. 👍🏻
That’s how I feel about him. Can’t wait until he’s gone. But I do chuckle at those who say he bears no responsibility for the train wreck of the last 12 months because he doesn’t pitch or hit or catch the ball but he should get most or all of the credit when the players do well.
It would be ridiculous for me to say that he’s 100% responsible, and I don’t think that. It is equally ridiculous for anyone to say he’s 0% responsible. I just can’t take that point of view seriously.
Of course he bears some, and he would admit it. Every manager would and none are perfect. The question isn’t “what would you do?” Because we fans are outsiders with no clue. But, “who would do better?” The answer is always a moving target of Flavor Of The Month….
I said a few days ago : if I’m the Bochy’s , I consider long and hard if I want to keep doing this.
If the tone is that we’re going to reload for 2018 Bochy will probably stay but f they even suggest it’s a two or three year proposition then I think he’ll hang them up or move on. My guess it will be the former because of those 41,500 tickets they want to keep selling.
No, I’m not for the flavor of the month, either. But Bochy’s been with the Giants a long time and a manager for a really long time. Sometimes change can be good for an organization. New voices, new perspectives. You have to admit that they have moved from “stable” to “comfortable” to “stale.” Sabean intimidated the players had “lost their edge.” I’m not sure what that means. But someone needs to help them find it again, because you can’t fire all the players.
And yes, if I were Mrs. Bochy, I’d be urging him to come home and enjoy their life together rather than continuing to push himself with his health issues.
Generational wealth…
Sure you can,
He is a manager of Mens egos,
If they do their job then good things happen
That’s just silly.
We’re you expecting anything different? Maybe you just don’t understand because you didn’t spend many years as a youth baseball volunteer. In other words, you never played the game.
Finally – you get it now. Kudos!
And he’s not tanking…and he may get more hands on…meaning your assertion that it’s been him all along may be a tad bit off?
Sounds like he’s willing to start making some moves. Good.
Sounded to me like he’s not a big enough man to admit that he’s ultimately the man in charge.
Well, of course you think that.
You know, I found that to be a big bowl of nothing. Bochy’s awesome, Evans is well-prepared, the players are working hard and being professional. Clearly everything is just fine.
I read the Evans part as some faint praise followed by a read-between-the-lines I’m taking back over for a bit and we’ll see if Bobby lasts through the carnage
someone has to go and it will be Evans before Sabean or Bochy, believe you me.
Yup. And I believe it should be
Agree
FireBobbyE.com
http://www.calimacil.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7/small_image/295x/af097278c5db4767b0fe9bb92fe21690/y/n/yngvar_larp_bearded_axe_calimacil_foam_ba153fh-bg_handle.png
Nice. Straight out of G.O.T.
we watch a show on HIstory called Forged in Fire. Bladesmiths have to produce ancient weapons in the final round. It’s pretty cool. G.O.T. is right.
I liked the part where he said because of the break it was hard to get a feel for the team’s trajectory. Next to Trump’s idea of creating a joint US Russia cyber security unit, that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard this week.
Seen on Twitter (my paraphrase):
Bush 43: Did you drive planes into the Twin Towers?
Bin Laden: Absolutely not
W: Great; let’s form a joint anti-terrorism unit
BL: Cool beans
I have to admit I have a greater appreciation for W because of Trump.
Me too. Downright nostalgic. Well, maybe not quite that.
Someone needs to take the fall, and I agree with E that it’s not gonna be Sabean or Bochy.
Bow Tie and McGowan are out. Yep, probably Evans.
There’s no question that Sabean was fully in charge during the four consecutive losing seasons that made the World Series wins possible, so it’s not like he’s a stranger to this.
Remember FireSabean.com? Good times.
One thing he should get credit for is nailing those high picks.
Probably not familiar with this level/percentage of highly paid duds.
it is exactly a bunch of typical SF Giants corporate speak.
Sabean is an old school guy from the old Yankee way, he should have the balls to say “I screwed up and gave Evan’s toom much control of the everyday roster decisions”. How about the truth for once.
There was never ever any guarantee the transition from Sabean to Evans was going to go smooth.
Why? Just because Evans worked for the Giants he was all of the sudden a great GM? That’s horse shit.
Sabean is pretty deep and close to the vest, Baggs got a lot out of Sabes,
Most importantly, “Larry has been great through all this…” no kidding, 40k still paying big bucks for tickets, $13 for a beer and whatever the latest stupid hat or shirt is, and Comcast paying a fortune to broadcast the games. Yep, Larry’s just fine.
Why would you bunt for a bad runner? Joe ‘Splain yourself.
I think he said that the NL has only 2 catchers, and Molina is the 2nd one used, after Buster started. The rules say that a position player can be brought back in only in the event of an injury, so Maddon can’t pinch run for Molina. He has decent speed though, for a catcher. Hard to believe that either team has only 2 catchers. How many players are on each team’s ASG roster, 75?
Santiago Casilla, white courtesy phone.
This Yadi Molina Transblonde decision …. one ugly dude.
It’s the scary neck tattoo.
Looks nothing like the “real” Yadi. Weird.
Molina…ball to he screen. What are the odds?
Walk off RTI, who wouldn’t love that? Besides the entire AL team.
11:30 for me–can’t go more than another inning. Sure would like to see an NL win.
Of course it’s the Cubs pitcher.
Heh, the Cubs pitcher gives up a homer in the 10th…
Shouldn’t the cameraman get tested for a concussion?
Dude’s talking backspin!!
Didn’t get the memo.
Dont tell CC
Did Maddon host a onesies party last night? I know he always does super cool stuff.
Ricky Martin hosted
My Guy Lindor
Buggywhip swing
Buggywhiff
Egg Plant ?
Is hat Technology And Stuff Guy’s brother?
Also, Manfred is incredibly white. Dude…take a puff
Needs a spray on tan
#notie
NBCSAuthenticVerified account @NBCSAuthentic 10m10 minutes ago
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WATCH: #Nationals’ Matt Scherzer: Man, it’d be nice to throw to Buster Posey http://www.csnbayarea.com/video/smiling-matt-scherzer-man-itd-be-nice-throw-buster-posey … SFGiants #GiantsOnNBCS
On pick off moves to first?
Dont worry we’ll get him here when he’s past his prime Evans And Sabes will see to it!
Henry Schulman bugs me so bad. He’s a know it all who knows nothing.
Hits a little close to home, eh?
i cant stand that ugly frustrated man, i mean he’s pissed for no reason just a mean sob
He’s the Gary Radunich of the papers. Pavolovic for me. He has a bad attitude on him, but I will credit that he knows a bit more thank Hank.
Would you pay 400 million for Bryce Harper??
Like $40MM a year for 10 years? No. As well as Robinson Cano has played the year plus, I imagine Seattle is dreading the last 3-4 years at $24MM each year. I know Harper is younger, but the end of a mega contract of that nature concerns me.
Why the eff not? What’s a little debt in 10 years? There will be bigger fish to fry.
Maybe, but I’d have to take out a loan.
About time someone fesses up that the second half of last year was not an aberration rather the fact they made the playoffs and competed and lost was the aberration. The article reads like an acknowledgment that they misfired on the players and it is the players that needs addressing and changing.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/11/giants-executive-brian-sabean-reacts-to-this-seasons-total-ineptitude-sketches-out-trade-deadline-strategy/
And Sabean acknowledged that the larger sample – 98 losses in the last 162 games – makes it hard to dismiss this season as a one-off. He said last year’s NL Wild Card victory over the Mets, and a tightly contested NL Division Series against the Cubs, might have given the front office “a false positive.”
“You do have to take into account last year’s second half because we do have a lot of the same personnel,” Sabean said. “So there’s a lot of soul searching going on.”
This was really an interesting piece to read, Sabes really didn’t hold anything back I would say.
It seemed like Sabean just took a LOT of words to not say much of anything at all.
Agree. It was like reading an interview with Eeyore and about as informative.
What exactly do you want said publicly? And, do you want that so you feel better, or because it’s the right thing to do for a company?
I disagree
But at least there is acknowledgment that this isn’t just some simple issue to fix, I feel like nothing has been said to this extreme yet by the FO
But he said things in a way that said both “obviously there are major issues” and “everybody is doing a great job”. It was acknowledging problems while not acknowledging problems.
It is, and will remain, an organization that has full command of:
Public – circle the wagons and defend all members
Private – Take care of business
I understand the desire for the VP to throw people under the bus to satiate our anger and desire for heads to roll and people to be called out.
But, please ask yourself this question: what purpose would that serve beyond rattling a foundation that has been the best of this decade until this season? Changing their style on public disclosure is short sighted. Yes, fans have every right to be angry. But let Sabean keep his disciplinary action inside the clubhouse
I don’t think publicly throwing people under would be productive at all. I’m more questioning the statements I’ve seen here and elsewhere that Sabean actually said much worthwhile here. It was longform company line, but people seem kind of blinded by the amount of words he said, instead of the minimal content.
I am sort of confused what you want him to say? Given how important these couple of weeks are coming up before the trade deadline, it’s not like he can say “everyone on our team sucks” thus hurting potential trade value. I’m sure he doesn’t want it to sound like the organization is a desperate as we all know they are, because then other teams will take advantage of it.
The team sucks, the farm is not very good and they have a lot of committed money. I have to imagine this is not the strongest position for a seller to be working from.
We’re going to do what we can to put a winning product on the field next year and try our darnedest to be competitive with the players we have because we are unlikely to add an impact player via free agency or through trade. Guys are going to have to have career years. It is what it is. After next year, things could get more bleak as a our core continues to diminish and we may be in more of a rebuild situation. In any case, we’re going to have to rebuild the talent base in organization brick by brick in the draft as we have been focused on in recent drafts. We have made a concerted effort to get more athletic in the outfield and we hope our scouting efforts bring that to fruition.
-B.S.
Other teams see the same thing we all see. If Sabean were to say “We have x and y underperforming and we’re not doing anywhere near as good as we though, due to _____”, no other teams are suddenly going to go “by gum he’s right! They ARE doing terribly! Let’s fleece them!” It was a chance for insight, a chance to hear opinions on why he thinks things aren’t as bad as they are. What we ended up getting just made me regret wasting the time it took to read. He’s had no problem throwing people under the bus in far better seasons (he’s said things about Belt that only fueled the weird bias against him, the infamous Panik/Duffy “not ready” comments, many more). I wasn’t expecting “Bruce is getting up there, and just doesn’t have it anymore, I could see interviewing replacements if morale doesn’t improve,” but what was got wasn’t much of anything.
With Sabean, sometimes you have to read between the lines. The fact that Panik was not referenced as core/foundation leads me to believe they see Arroyo as the 2B of the future and Panik as a desirable trade piece.
The statement about maybe overestimating long term importance of a player means Belt will likely be traded. I just hope they wait until the offseason, when I think there will be a better return.
Fans have no right to be angry.
He also expects to be a contender next year , without adding any payroll, so he contradicts himself .
One of my favorite ungulates of the blog asked if any Major Leaguer has ever not made the Hall of Fame and had the distinction of hitting the most home runs at their respective position. This was obviously a pointed question about Jeff Kent, a 2B that many of us feel should be in The Hall. His prospects don’t look so good, but he’s not the only one. Bonds is another one getting the snub. Big Mac is the career leader for 1Bs. Good thing A-Rod split his time between SS and 3B. Big Papi leads all DHs. And then, of course, there is Wes Ferrell, who edged out Warren Spahn for taters by a hurler.
You do understand the clear (or is it cream?) distinction between Kent and the Bonds/Mac snubs….
Who doesn’t?
You tied them all together, Cuz….
And what conclusions can you draw about HRs, The Hall, and the modern era?
…Jim Thome, 612 HRs. Appears on next year’s ballot. Hall worthy?
That’s a much different question, but my answer is:
He will get in because it’s more of a popularity/friendliness to journalists/sexy stat combination, and some non-controversial home run hitter is almost a shoo-in.
I align with your “the Hall Is Getting Too Big” theory, but that is a result of many things, including an expansion to 30 teams leading to just more numbers everywhere.
The Hall got big years ago. It’s not like it can get any smaller. There are a far smaller % of players represented in the Hall from the last 30 years than any other generation.
I agree with you. Each year we usually have 2-3 players entering the HOF. There are also 5-10 notable players each year that do not garner enough votes to stay on the ballot. We also have appx the same number of players added to the ballot. Those that fall off and those that begin their 10-year window are often those “very good but not HOF great” players we watched and admired during their halcyon years. I enjoy the debates of HOF worthiness of those players.
Yup. And there needs to be less % because it would be the Township Of Fame otherwise. And…. the scrutiny of these players are at an all time high…which I don’t see changing.
Bonds should be in if Cobb is in…and because of every dude that only played against white guys that got in means it even started out of whack
The inclusion percentages from decade to decade are very similar…until you get to the last 30 years and see a steep drop. You can’t put the genie back in. Past generations have already set the HOF standard for inclusion, and then at some point decided that a fraction of “today’s” players don’t meet that standard, which is absurd. Arguing small hall now just doesn’t make sense, not when guys like Chick Hafey (a friend of my grandfather!) or any player who contributed to the “classic” Yankee years has been inducted for 50 years. Just because Bill Mazeroski looks like a weak inclusion doesn’t mean that a great player like Mussina should get punished.
I don’t argue their should be a “small hall” , only that I observe it to be watered down, which may be more the natural progression of such places…
Don’t get me started on the rock N Roll HOF…
Aw c’mon… I think Tupac Shakur was a real head bangin’ metal head!
I think the R&R Hall of Fame’s biggest mistake – clearly – was not calling itself “Music Industry Hall of Fame”. That’s what it is, but specifically calling it “Rock n Roll” just leads to so much unnecessary confusion and Eddie Trunk wondering why UFO isn’t in but ABBA is.
I don’t see it as watered down. I think there are more undeserving guys from the 1960s and before IN the hall, than deserving players from the 70s and later that got no chance. If it got watered down, it happened 50 years ago, and deserving modern players are paying the price. The fact that a hitter like Edgar Martinez is barely going to scrape in like on his last eligible year, is nonsense.
I don’t appreciate being called ungulateful!
↑↑↑↑↑ for your (or Footy’s) awesome command of the English language.
https://hrexach.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/ungb.gif
I can’t believe that your first post of Sexy Hoof totally dissed your good friend , Buster Deer
I forget the issue date but according to the Harper’s Magazine Index, Barry Bonds shoe size grew by 24% after some point in his 30’s. I hear his head size also grew dramatically. I never want to see Bonds, McGwire, or Sosa in the HOF.
Yet Ivan Rodriguez just made it in.
In Canseco’s book he claims he taught Pudge how to inject steroids in 2005 yet Rodriguez’ HR numbers after that year were radically lower than when he was in his 20’s. I think Canseco’s book’s inaccuracies combined with Rodriguez’ unspectacular late career power numbers created a positive reasonable doubt in the committee’s mind.
Rodriguez and Canseco were teammates years before 2005. Canseco was out of baseball by 2000 or 2001.
My bottom line is that *I* would not have voted Rodriguez in. But the committee probably examines numbers in bulk to determine whether to believe Canseco or not. Eventually, ALL of the PED users will be let in who were not outright nailed (or confessed) because the committee will get tired of “reasonable doubt”.
And oddly enough, I would have voted him in. I think the hypocrisy is more of a silly issue than the actual use itself.
Okay but how many nailed/confessed PED users will get in? None. All of the “suspecteds” will eventually get in by “reasonable doubt” and SELECTIVE “reasonable doubt” IS hypocrisy.
David Ortiz will get in. MLB has already begun the “may have been a false positive, we don’t know” as a way to whitewash his legacy.
Funny, I looked up Ortiz’ precise numbers in bbref not an hour ago. He’s a guy who, if confession incentives are not given, will DEFINITELY get HOF entry based on this lousy “reasonable doubt” equivocation.
Great thread guys.
Thanks, Bob. It took a while but it appears that we support Eric’s Granddad’s idea of a confession time window where all suspecteds could be cleared for the HOF if they confess in time. Even Bonds could get in and why not … there were soooo many players during that time who were users. I hate the present system where the confessors get absolutely punished and the suspecteds can get reasonable doubt.
That is the idea I hadn’t heard before and really like it.
He had to have been 84? 85? when he told me that idea. But he was a huge Barry fan, said he was the most impressive player he’d ever seen. And he saw a LOT of baseball in his day. Here he was, an 85 year old 7th day Adventist-raised, army vet, retired dentist, with a far more logical approach than most professional sportswriters.
The confession window was a fascinating “what could have been” conversation. What players would “damage” what they viewed as their legacy by confessing? Who would risk not confessing, in hopes that some would say “if he’s brazen enough to not confess, maybe he was innocent?” It’s a psychological quagmire that would have been no doubt a constantly fascinating revelation all season. Would we get a big rush of players at once? Who would be the first to step forward? Would one step forward and be left alone, or would a flood of people come forward at once (to lessen the PR blow). I think it would be great.
It is not a committee, it is the writers how vote, and since Piazza was voted in the year before , with PED rumors but no failed tests, they voted for Rodriguez and Bagwell , two other players with PED rumors but no failed test .
So steroid use is ok, as long as the players didn’t do too well?
No. I didn’t say that I would have voted Rodriguez in!! I’m just saying the committee probably looks at performance during years of alleged PED use as a loose metric of the allegations’ truth. We’re going to be plagued by this metric for years and eventually Bonds will get in because the committee will get tired of the looseness of this metric.
Canseco’s last year with Texas saw Pudge’s ISO go from .130 to .190, from Panik to Belt basically. And they kept growing through the early 2000s. And then, once testing started, Pudge showed up to camp 20 lb lighter and got praised for “getting into great lean shape”, and watched his offensive numbers return immediately to his 1996 levels. And there was no “decline”. He went from a 137 wRC+ one year, back to his typical 95-100, his pre-which he then maintained for many more years.
I think the fallback to his “pre-which” is where the committee upvoters probably claimed reasonable doubt. I really doubt these guys look at ISO or wRC+. I bet that with suspected PED violators they mainly look at RBI, HR, and BA. They’re not Einsteins.
He improved in those stats too , you are in denial, Pudge must of been your hero .
See below. The HOF Committee voted him in, I didn’t. I’m saying to you right now that in the future if a PED user wasn’t nailed outright or confessed, he’ll be let into the HOF because the HOF doesn’t want to mince about “reasonable doubt”.
Why are you so high and mighty on Bonds .
Because his foot and head grew by huge numbers in his thirties. If you know of a “growth spurt” in the thirties please inform me of thus.
He was a Hall of Famer before that, who cares, you are an Angel are Something .
For one, I care if one is a decent citizen of the game. That Bonds/McGwire/Sosa era is one big asterisk to me.
You have spies watching every MLB player, lots of bad guys in Hall of Fame .
No doubt! Personally, if I’m the HOF Committee, I would give HOF entry incentives to all suspecteds who confess. The honest guys are the ones most punished by the HOF Committee. They’ll never get in.
My grandpa, who passed away two years ago at 90, came up with the idea the first year Bonds was eligible: Set an arbitrary start date; from that date for one full calendar year, anyone who confesses to any kind of cheating, steroid, amphetamine, whatever, is cleared. Any player that doesn’t, and is found to have been cheating or currently cheating, is banned for life. It needs some wrinkles smoothed, but I liked his idea.
I think we’ve hit on common ground, Eric.
It shows up in any stat you look at. ISO isn’t for any Einstein, it’s literally SLG minus AVG. His OPS went from an .880 average over 7 or 8 seasons, to a drop immediately back to his earlier .735 level, which he maintained for another 4 or 5 seasons. That, and looking like Bobby Estalella in 2004, and suddenly looking like he magically got into crossfit the next year.
See below on my responses to Peter and you. You’re arguing as if *I* was a member of the HOF Committee. If I am, Pudge is not in!
Thanks Mother Teresa .
You’re welcome, Pope Francis!
Your explanation only points out how arbitrary and unfair it is to blackball only those users who had the misfortune of having their sources exposed. How about the beloved Big Papi, who actually tested positive? Everyone seems to assume he’s going right in.
See the posts below. If I had my way, suspecteds who confessed would have a window into the HOF. Eric’s Grandpa’s idea of a limited confession time is great. Big Papi is shrouded by the “false positive” defense. I don’t think he confessed but in my system if he did he’d get in at the earliest possible date.
What about all the steroid users who are already in?
Serious question: who do you think is a user who is already in. Pudge is my biggest red flag. But there are several others I think. Carlton Fisk, Kirby Puckett, Randy Johnson, Rickey…any that you think that I missed? Any that I named that you disagree?
I have no doubt in my mind Piazza was a user. It’s not just about anecdotal evidence regarding his “backne.” It’s also how he went from a 62nd round draft pick to the best hitting catcher of all time hitting fastballs at his eyes over the CF wall. Nobody will every convince me he wasn’t a user. I also think Pujols was a user, and he’ll get in eventually. I also very much believe Bagwell used. I don’t hate any of them. I just think it’s incredibly self righteous by BBWAA to exclude “obvious” users like Bonds and Clemens (two of the best at their position ever) but be fine with the ones I just mentioned.
I am in full agreement on everything you said. The hypocrisy is annoying, and inconsistent.
Boy i tell ya it is so beautiful not having Gs baseball til Friday!
Enjoy the rest of the week! Maybe Bobby Evans will do some radio interviews 🙂
I spend part of the year waiting for the next Giants game and part of the year waiting for the next baseball season. The wait between games is as excruciating as the wait between seasons only shorter with more to ponder and more shared consciousness. The AS game break is not nearly as excruciating as the wait between games should the Giants reach the postseason. Then there is that special sweetness regards elimination games that one could almost have thought not so long ago were the norm.
bst 1, slik 0
On the bright side, you probably won’t have to worry about the more excruciating wait for quite some time.
I must say that I enjoyed the atmosphere and the entertainment factor in the game last night. The players enjoyed themselves. They had fun, and I enjoyed watching it. The Stand Up To Cancer moment becomes more poignant each time they do it. I’m not a Joe West fan, but I enjoyed Nelson Cruz tipping his cap–21st century style–to a longtime veteran of the third team on the field.
A somewhat related note, we don’t have enough Latin players on our team or rising through our organization. Many of those players that reveled in the atmosphere were Latin. Their unbridled joy and happiness was beautiful to watch. We’ve played a lot of teams this year that had young, productive, ascending Latins in essential roles. Wish we had more of that.
Great post. Love the “third team” reference. Very Clutchian of you.
And your 2nd paragraph, if only Efrain could make that point as eloquently as you did 🙂
Johnny Cueto may go by winter. Nunez very likely gone.
You’d think the bullpen would have at least one latin fireballer.
Maybe Gorkys returns. Maybe Miguel Gomez can stick. And hey, we’ve got Christiano Arroyo!
I’ve always like D’Angelo Williams as a player but this makes me like him even more.
He has the Cowboys on his do not call list because he grew up a 49er fan and hates Cowboy fans: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19973221/free-agent-rb-deangelo-williams-lists-four-teams-want-play-for
http://es.pn/2u9473L
Boy, I was wrong on this. I can see why, but I wanted Moore to the ‘pen.
Giants sending Cain to bullpen to make space for Bumgarner’s return https://t.co/actEOhxZXe https://t.co/rF6l7FeK4G
In a Pick Your Poison race to the finish, I’m wondering if the blog will spin this into Bruce being wrong again.
I would think their logic is they HAVE to see if Moore can get it together. Young, has stuff, comes fairly cheap, and is hopefully part of the future. Cain is riding into the sunset. In this Sophie’s Choice, I’m in agreement.
I would have to agree with you Matthew. Besides, Giants have Okert and Osich in the pen already; unless they send one back to Triple A.
I think Matt C. gives a better chance for a win right now than Matt M., by keeping the games closer, but you are exactly right, namely the M. one has a possible future. Matt Cain the Horse will gracefully accept the change as the loyal Giant he is.
Moore has just been awful. It was my misfortune to attend my only in-person game so far this year and witness Moore’s total lack vs the Mets. This guy now seems like Johnny Sanchez without the occasional no-hit stuff. I wish they would send him on some kind of rehab assignment and make him work on stuff. And don’t bring him back until he’s sorted out these issues. Right now, the Giants have very little hope of competing in the games he’s pitching. It’s not fair to the paying customers, like me, to see a guy so messed up trying (and failing) to find his groove. Yeah, the team’s a mess this season, but the hopelessness of his starts is getting overwhelming.
I feel your pain….
His starts have all of the rinse and repeat feels to them: He takes the hill lloking ready to hyperventilate at any second…the camera pans to Bochy and Rags, and both have the “This Sucks” expression going. The benchwarmers are cracking jokes and throwing seeds. The fans are restless and distracted….
But….
They need to house train this dog, because it has potential
Yet last year he had a 4.08 ERA with us. Go figure. If he was that good last year, why is he ridiculously worse this year?
Asking that in some form about most of the roster
Truly! That’s why I think, talent-wise, we’re really not close to being this bad.
Full pitching recovery when a surgeon cuts your arm is a dicey proposition but I claim that, at least by eye test, Moore has better stuff. Do any of you TWG’ers have stats on the decrease of fastball velocity in Cain and Moore vs. pre-surgery? I think FB velocity is a definite indicator of the degree of healing.
I agree wholeheartedly. Moore has the ability to be a middle rotation starter. He has shown some of that this year. This is Cain’s swan song, but for the future of the franchise, Moore is the obvious choice.
When they’re serious, they’ll stop carrying the extra pitchers
2018 Dream Team
???/Duggar CF – good defense, modest production at plate, 8th more likely
Panik 2B : career year. .300 plus average, .350 OBP, some pop
Posey C : a year much like this year but with RBIs!
Belt 1B : the year you’ve been dreaming of, .280+ avg, .400 OBP, 30 HRs!
Arroyo 3B: .300/.330/.460, HRs, defense, amazing
Slater LF: Similar to Arroyo, also amazing
Pence/Span RF/LF: Major decline, but timely heroics
Crawford: glove wizardry inspires Gandalf comparisons, bat bounces back
Bumgarner = CY
Shark= Top 5 Cy
Cueto stays put to everyone’s surprise and does quite well
Moore figures some things out
Blach and Beede hold the fort at the back end.
The bullpen features a free agent addition. Melancon bounces back. The rest of the gang minus Kontos is really good.
No significant injuries. Too good to be true?
You don’t even believe this.
He might? Whereas I am “potentially angry”, Ryan is a guy that can project solutions like no other
‘dream team’, right there in Ryan’s 1st line. Exactly opposed to the 2017 ‘nightmare team’! Some of it will actually be true: bullpen and Joe and Buster, and it would be nice if the Brandon parts were partially true.
Shaw in LF and let Slater play CF giving Duggar a full year in AAA.
“Rebuilding” from the Farm System is what this describes. Anything else is “Patching Up” with affordable FA or trades that do not really improve them.
I’m really, really, really happy about Sam Dyson so far. I suppose they might flip him somewhere for prospects in the next few weeks–it would be getting something for practically nothing. But I hope they keep him.
I’d also like to see Crick get a lot more experience this second half and hopefully be a mainstay in next year’s bullpen (unless he’s competing for the rotation!). I have definitely see signs of a rebound from Josh Osich–give him plenty of opportunities this season, too. As for Melancon, he should get as much rest as he needs this season. They still have a lot of money committed to him for the next three years.
Could have this bullpen next year: Melancon, Dyson, Strickland, Crick, Smith, Osich, and (pick one of Gearrin, Law, Okert or ____). Not bad.
I’d hang onto Dyson until it’s certain that Melancon doesn’t need a TJ.
Yes, who the heck knows at this point? Having a proven closer in the wings is a good idea.
If Melancon ever gets healthy, I’d like him better as the 8th inning setup man for Dyson. But that’s my bias showing, as I’m more comfortable with “stuff” relievers in the 9th!
But not necessarily good, right? Strickland, Smith, Osich, Gearrin, Law … not proven reliable at all. I would expect Smith to carry through on his one half-season. Wouldn’t be bothered to lose any of those.
I think Osich and Law absolutely need to prove themselves further, but they’ve both had success in the past. I thought Smith was pretty terrific for the Giants last year. Gearrin is hard to figure out. Strickland is not my favorite guy, but the truth is he’s been one of the Giants’ best relievers since he came up in 2014.
If a healthy Melancon, Dyson, Strickland, and Smith are the back-end core–and I have high hopes for Crick, but it’s too soon to tell–that’s a good start. You can figure it out from there.
I completely disagree with Matthew’s statement that “fans have every right to be angry.” Disappointed? Surprised? Absolutley. But angry? No way. Anger is a more appropriate response when you’re entitled to something which is being unfairly withheld. In the case of the Giants, the organization has given fans far more than they could’ve ever reasonably expected. They won it all three times, despite the fact that none of those teams could be considered truly great.
Now, that era is over. Unless you’re the kind of person who refuses to acknowledge reality, you knew it had to happen. Sabean himself, before the season started, talked about the window closing for this group. It just happened to slam shut more quickly and forcefully than anyone thought it would. Nevertheless, it was inevitable. What goes up must come down, and coming down is probably necessary if they hope to go back up again. Be thankful for what you got a chance to witness, but anger is a bit misplaced at the moment. For this period of time, they got it very right. Their response to what has happened may legitimately earn your anger, but I think they’ve earned a grace period before the knives come out.
Where would I be with out my Junior Linguist?
Your wording is fine by me
Now Matt, TO put all that work in disagreeing with you and all he gets is a two line response? I’m both angry and disappointed with your lack of resolve, where’s the tiger we all know and love?
Such a huge irony; the team has been wretched for an entire calendar year but if Bochy doesn’t pull Moore they may well have won game four over the Cubs, then Bumgarner in game five and we know how that guy does in the postseason. They could have been a horrible team who won the World Series. Wow.
Cueto was starting game 5, Bum started game 3 and gave up a HR to Areita, Giants came back and won that game .
Thanks, I mis-remembered…
It helps ease the pain a little bit of that choke job convincing myself that the pen would’ve inevitably collapsed in later rounds. Could you imagine if the pen collapsed in epic fashion against the Dodgers in the NLCS? Maybe the embarrassment of Game 4 saved the Giants from a more devastating blow. I’ll always think that anyway.
this is one of the great travesties of this decade – that the Giants and Dodgers did not face each other in the postseason. Seems it was 2014 that it could have and should have happened.
Maybe next year, or in 2021.
Why a travesty? I wouldn’t want that
Suit yourself. I’d love to see Mad Bum v. Seager for all the marbles!
so, the 2 teams that make-up the best rivalry, in any sport, have not played each other in a play-off series in 55 years. that is really too bad. i’d love to see them go at it once more in my lifetime.
Amen, brother Steve. Let’s do it in 2018.
They did play well during the last couple of weeks of last season, similar to the two stretches they had this season where they won 8 of 10 and 7 of 8. Even bad teams can play well for short periods of time. Take out those two streaks and they’d be 19-53.
I think the fans have given the Giants a lot, too. It’s not a one-way street.
I get little-picture angry but not big-picture angry. The Giants have spent money to try to put a competitive and engaging product on the field, year in and year out for awhile now. No complaints there. And injuries, regression, aging, and bad trades happen to all teams. You can’t predict it and you can’t be mad about it.
I do get frustrated about things like Casilla being allowed to pitch to Jake Lamb in September. And young outfielders glued to the bench during the stretch drive while Pagan was limping and slumping and Span was like 1 for 60. And old, washed-up veterans like Aaron Hill making the roster instead of Kelby Tomlinson, a home-grown player who’s paid his dues and earned his spot, or Jae-Gyun Hwang, a Korean star who came across the world for a chance at the major leagues. Or rookies being pulled mid-game for pinch-hitters, the most notable being Mac for Blanco at Fenway last year, the next AB after Mac hit a three-run homer.
Those “little-picture decisions” speak to me, on a small scale, of an at least momentary lack of commitment to winning games and/or putting at least an interesting product on the field. Veteran “presence” (Hill) or egos (Pagan/Span/Casilla) as more important in the moment than winning games. That’s just my take as a fan. I don’t know what Bochy’s and Evans’s motivations are in those instances. But they do not feel like acts of good faith toward fans, whom as I said, deserve some loyalty and appreciation.
The issue with some of our thinking is that we don’t analyze the marathon nature of the season too well. Bochy has, and will remain, dedicated to the “long view” methodology, which even includes playing what can be argued as the wrong player. You’ve pointed to a few, and your stance makes sense….but what I always repeat is the boring mantra: we don’t know what we don’t know. About injuries. About matchups. About any other motivating factors hidden from fans.
So, there’s either trust or there is not. A bad stretch like this erides that trust, with reason. These are the times when we have to remember how those earlier insanity de idiots the team made worked better than we could imagine.
One of the tendencies I’ve seen in you is embracing new/young/change. And that can be fun and exciting. It’s not, nor will it ever, be Bochy’s way. You’re proven right this season. He’s proven right in other seasons. But, it’s up to you to adjust…not him. He won’t. We’re fans. His stakes are higher.
I agree with most of that, but it’s not up to me to adjust. I’m a fan. I’m entitled to my reactions and my opinions. I’m well aware that I have no say over any of those decisions. But I don’t have to “adjust” to something I disagree with. I can just keep disagreeing with it. That’s my right as a fan who spends money and time following the team.
I actually had more issue with Bochy last year than this one. There are a few things that have bothered me here and there, but this year is what it is–a s**t show–and there are not too many things Bochy could have done differently to change that. Last year, though, a lot of things went wrong in the second half that he had direct control over–sticking with lackluster lineups that weren’t working. Sticking with a closer who couldn’t close. Sticking with pricey veteran starters (Peavy and Cain the first two months) who were routinely blowing up games. Burying guys who’d contributed while others were out with injuries.
I think he was a big part of the problem last year and that the second half has colored, at least somewhat, the horrible first half of this season. The losing became habitual. So no, I don’t trust him to make good decisions, not anymore. I think maybe he’s been doing this job too long.
Oh, that’s cool..I mean, you don’t HAVE to adjust…it’s more of a “how do we stay sane?” question, and that leads me to try my best to step back and let go of things like Bochyisms.
I guess another way to put it is: don’t ever expect a guy like Bruce to change…his jewelry box has more sway over his methods than blogs. But, we certainly have every right to wax tragic at will
No, I don’t expect him to change!
A Hall of Famer makes adjustments. If I stopped hearing about him being an automatic Hall of Famer, the obstinance and misjudgments wouldn’t be so annoying. So yes, sometimes the roster and luck plays into his style. Other times not. And it’s hard to say that he has been right more than he’s been wrong. Won 3 Series, and he’s had a lot of non-playoff years, even losing records, with substantial payrolls. That’s top notch management?
I guess he long view extends beyond the 64-98 he’s compiled most recently. He’s not the best man for,the job going forward. The team needs to get younger and that’s not his thing.
I don’t disagree. I hope he rides off into a happy sunset after this year, but I don’t have any idea that he will. I don’t say I want him to leave because I’m as passionate as you and Lefty, but for his health and well being, and the tough road ahead for any manager of the Giants for awhile
I agree with all of that, but I’m talking about a more general sense of outrage and anger some have that their team is having a losing season. And of course I’m all in on your bye bye Bochy wish.
If I may, anger is completely appropriate when you have an emotional, chronological or even financial investment in people who then perform irresponsibly, negligently and/or unprofessionally, to your detriment. The Giants have certainly done that. It’s hard to spend that much money and be awful. Not saying anger is wise or healthy, but appropriate.
To your detriment? How are you being harmed? No one forces you to spend money on them.
Fans can be whoever they want. They can be up close and personal (fanatics!), they can be distant (is that really a fan?), they can be somewhere in between (happy medium?). As long as the fans are human, expect a broad range of emotion and intelligence. Expect rationality. Expect irrationality. Ahhhh, human/fan nature, it’s kind of nice we all aren’t the same and that we have different attitudes. Otherwise, this would be a pretty dull blog, don’t you think?
Yup. Like Randy Quaid’s fan character in “Major League”, one and the same person can go from “I hate your guts player X!!!” to “I love you, man!!” one pitch apart. In fact, that’s often your most fanatical fan. Your steely-nerved fan might just take a loss in stride. You’re right … this blog would be a crashing bore if we were all the same kind of fan.
And then there’s fans like the Barbara Hershey character in The Natural. And I think Robert Deniro plays a nut job in another. Yikes!
Since Hershey’s character only killed rising athletes, this year nearly all of the Giants would be safe from her wrath. Of course, she shot Redford after a strikeout. I’d call that the lowest failure tolerance I’ve ever seen.
Just saw a picture of Hershey from 2016 in Wikipedia. She looks a-maz-ing for a woman of 69. Seriously, she looks 49!!
Recent (ish) she was great in Black Swan, and yes, looked beautiful.
Yep, we can’t all be peachy.
I read the thing with Sabean. I really love his reaction to this season. Makes him sick, causes him to lose sleep, and he is actively involved working towards improvements. The thing he didn’t say was how badly they have misjudged talent. But overall, I found his comments encouraging.
After reading that Sabean thing. Big moves are coming. The problem and glaring hole is that they can’t evaluate talent anymore. The game has passed them by.
I do not think big moves are coming, they have to many untradeable contracts .
Nothing is untradeable. Negotiations are always possible
Yeah there are very few contracts in MLB that are outright untradeable. If a team has interest in a player, negotiations can be made.
Prissy teacher says: They have TOO many …
A lesson in TOO: It always means either “excessive” like “the light is TOO bright” or it means “also” like “invite Mike to the party, too.” That’s pretty much it. Content exhausted.
Small moves are coming.
Oh no. Not more mediocres-for-mediocres moves. That would evoke the anger emotion in me.
It’s hard enough to find players but how do you find/develop scouts? That’s even harder since they need a keen eye for a zillion important details. They also need to visit a lot of leagues with highly varying talent levels. Inter-league is a hard judge.
19 days until the trade deadline. Let’s get some chatter going, let’s hear about some fuses being lit and anticipate some boom. Come on GM’s around the league. Come on David Forst in Oakland. Make shit happen. Just maybe Bobby Evans will get involved. Would the Cards be interested in Hunter Pence if cash came with him? Is that such a crazy notion?
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/trade-chatter-rangers-rockies-ramos-mariners-alonso-cards.html
You need a sedative.
You got 5 minutes to sit down with me?
No Giants game until Friday.
Warm milk, maybe?
No. Much stronger, like Xanax.
No .
Forget the name Evans since I see his days in the organization are dwindling. May happen this season or certainly next if the losing continues at the same rate.
What I took from Sabean’s interview is that he realizes he F’d up not being more involved in the day to day. Let me ask you, if your boss ever said that, should you feel comfortable? I doubt Evan’s feels he is here for the long haul. And believe you me this team is not going to be competitive next season, at least not a serious PS team.
I read between the lines and saw the same thing, E…
Which would be a gutless move by Sabean.
I honestly don’t think there are any moves that Sabean or Bochy will make for the rest of eternity that you won’t criticize.
Do you really think I’m going to criticize any trade for prospects?
We’ll see….your trigger on All Things Giants is “bad decision” …I’ll gladly stand corrected if that time ever comes
As much as I’d hate it – I’d love to see Pence have a revival and take another team to the Show. He deserves another hurrah.
I bet Rickles is keeping Wally busy UP there due to his proclivity for cursing. http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/don-rickles-youll-never-play-the-copa
And is Norm MacDonald totally certifiably registered as crazy? http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/norm-macdonald-a-rusty-car-in-the-rain
Look up his appearance on Fallon a month back. Killed it. My all time favorite comic. He was a couch guest, not doing stand up, had some great lines.
Was that the one where he read his “book”? Norm is golden
That’s the one! “He knew if he got a laugh out of ol’ Stone Face Fallon, that he had truly made it.” I was dying.
At the moment, the Giants roster contains exactly three outfielders (Pence, Span, G. Hernandez). At a pinch, you can put Belt or Tomlinson out the, but basically that is three (3) OF. It is quite difficult to believe that they will go into Friday’s game without changing that. So who would the addition be?
I’m 99.9% sure that Mac WIlliamson can’t be recalled for ten days, which leaves Calixte as the only OF on the 40-man. I am assuming that Parker is genuinely hurt, rather than suffering an imaginary setback near the end of his 20 day rehab.
We read the interview with Sabean that actually says nothing at all while saying the organization wants renewal. Does that mean Sabean knows there’s a trade for a MLB-grade OF close to completion, ie by Friday?
Or will they put someone onto the 40- and 25-man roster from inside the organization? AAA has Chris Shaw, and Ruggiano, Lollis, and M. Upton. Shaw’s average is the same for Sacramento as for Richmond, 0.299 and 0.301 respectively. Does he have yet another level of jump in him for 2017?
a lot of good questions, but in the end what would happen? 90 losses instead of 100?
Not too big of a deal right?
Calixte on Friday.
Trades will clear the 40-Man: Cueto, Nunez and Span
Only Bochy knows who comes up as he seems to be the Gatekeeper. Mac will thrive on another team next year.
There you go, trade all the minorities on the team!
Interesting how that may be the case and it won’t matter much to many folks.
Sarcasm I hope.
It rhymes with hope = Nope
sadly there is always truth in joke.
LOL – you have it bad about the racial deal.
Not sure how big a trade bait Cueto, Nunez, and Span are. Cueto’s 2nd half funk in KCR and first half funk here might raise suspicion that he’s past prime. He’s on the wrong side of 30. Span has a career BA of .284 which you’d think would bring something to us but I think his ball route and throwing cats are out of the bag. He’s 33. Nunez can play but how do you hype an injured career platoon player?
Why would one assign extraordinary value to any of those three players. Value high enough to bring a prospect with clear MLB potential. IMO, the only players on this team that fit that bill are Posey and Belt, and trading them would be commercial suicide, IMO, in the near term.
Efrain should relax. Only Cueto could be moved because he’s long term demonstrated quality and a contender would want him. Of course, his first half was unspectacular and in a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league that might diminish what they get. Don’t be surprised if the players/pitchers on the field in 2nd half looks like the 1st half.
Oh I’m not expecting any wholesale changes, that’s not the Giants style.
But that’s not what’s best for the team.
Only way it happens is if Sabean gets so frustrated and decides to blow much of it up.
Sabean wants to put an MLB team on the field, not an AAA team. I don’t blame him for wanting to keep a core. And we DO have a core. What we lack are prospects but trading for them is a crapshoot is, to use CC’s language, “organizational suicide”.
We need the Posey/Panik/Belt/Crawford core to put a somewhat watchable team on the field. I would quibble just a bit about Cueto though. He’s proven long term quality and the line to pitch him to another team would be that he needs the motivation of contention which he had last year and he was great.
you’re both sadly mistaken that Belt is in the same boat as Craw, Posey, Bum.
He’s not even in the top 5 1B in the NL anymore, much less in all of baseball.
He’s the easiest to replace.
No, he’s in that boat with them. Team leader in RBI and on pace for 28 HRs. Might be middling in the NL but middling is pretty damned good on a team that’s 22 games under .500.
Do you trust the Giants to be able to replace Belt’s production? I sure don’t. There were several cheap bats available this offseason and they took a chance on Aaron Hill. And for a position with supposedly easy to find talent, they’ve been mostly horrible at it. After Snow they went through Ryan Klesko, Mark Sweeney, Rich Aurilia, Lance Niekro…
And let’s see, Votto, Freeman, Goldschmidt, Rizzo…I guess you can count Bellinger even though he’ll mostly be playing OF. Who else? He’s a no doubt top 10 at his position in MLB. I’m sure you’ll disagree, but you don’t tend to be rational in any way about him.
If you are looking at it with a narrow POV, sure you may not get the same production.
But I’m thinking what the team should be thinking – BIGGER PICTURE. The team needs to get younger and cut money. It also needs to improve the team overall, and that should start with better outfield and pitching talent. You don’t think the Giants having absolutely the worst OF play in MLB has something to do with their overall team effort?
And speaking of their record, anything short of Judge number, whatever Belt provides is insignificant in that it’s still a 100 loss team.
Therefore move him get younger talent for the future and they will fill the void till the next Giants 1B is found.
Big picture homie, don’t think so narrow minded.
That is the core they have tried to build around with Pence for the past 3 years. That has not worked very well.
They’ve worked wondrously well since 2012 (Panik 2014). Now Pence is in a swan dive, Belt and Crawford are driving in runs (God knows they don’t get enough chances to), and Panik is their best strike zone this side of Posey. It’s the REST of the team, the OF and Pitchers, that have worked out disastrously.
Belt and Crawford are not driving in runs. They are middle of the order hitters. They have 44 and 45 respectively after 90 games. That is a pace for 88-90 RBIs. They currently hold also place 24th and tied for 28th or 30th or 32nd. That means that almost every team has 2 guys with more RBIs than the Giants best RBI guys. That sucks for the middle of the order hitters
Team leads are team leads. It just means they’re not getting enough RISP to drive in so they’ve needed all of their 24 HR and doubles to drive ’em in. A lot of teams’ stars bat with beaucoup men on base so of course their numbers look much better.
Joe Panik with his .280 average and Gold Glove might draw some decent prospects.
You cannot trade Panik on a hunch. Panik is that bird in the hand that’s worth 5 in the bush. We’ve gotten rid of Duvall and Duffy so for God’s sake don’t get rid of real, proven talent. Keep what’s real.
Nunez is more than a career platoon player … AL All-Star SS one year ago.
But you may be right … Wheel Sea
Actually, that one year was really an anomaly but, on balance, I want to keep him because he really WAS a platoon player until those shining moments in Minnesota. But it’s NEVER a shame to platoon behind Derek Jeter. I say Nunez is our sleeping Giant in injury hiding.
Knowing these knuckleheads, they’ll promote Melvin. A name we’ll grow to despise.
Melvin’s been in the bigs before, so he knows how to handle it…except the curve. Let’s not give his spot up for a younger more deserving rookie like Shaw.
Many kudos in social media and many major media outlets today for the ASG yesterday, the pace of the game, the interviews, the focus on younger and new players.
The game needs to get quicker and needs to attract the younger generation.
Interesting stat: The medium age of the MLB fan is in the late 50’s. For the NFL it’s slightly lower and for the NBA it drops all the way to 34-35.
Needless to say baseball is in trouble if it doesn’t fix the issue. It’s does not have to be a game that pleases old fogies.
It needs to focus on guys like Judge, Harper, Lindor, guys that have personalities and make that bring youthful exuberance to the game.
indeed. And reversing the 3 outcome tend that saps athleticism and exuberance
I know. But I still see kids playing down at the field by the post office, so that’s a comfort.
oh kids love baseball, best organized kids sport next to soccer.
The issue is losing kids in HS to sports like football and basketball because they appeal to them more, seem cooler.
But baseball is right hedging it’s future on new style players like Harper and Judge. Should appeal to younger kids to stick with baseball hopefully.
Also J, I don’t know where you live, but if it’s a suburb I am not surprised kids are playing bball.
Sadly, in NYC I hardly ever see kids playing baseball in fields, not like they do basketball in all the hoops courts.
And where there are those few baseball fields, they are full of adults playing in corporate softball leagues.
The only area I’ve seem kids playing very competitive “pick-up ” style baseball is in Washington Heights, which is Manny Ramirez’ old stomping ground and a lot of young Dominican talent.
Sad but true.
Angel Hernandez Discrimination Case vs MLB (Part 1)
http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/07/angel-hernandez-mlb-and-discrimination.html
Hernandez just took the prized ‘worst called strike’ of the season so far. That gif ought to settle the issue for the plaintiff. Brenly’s comment was ‘interesting’.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-worst-called-strike-of-the-first-half-3/
I know you love to sensationalize these kinds of things, but this one is really much ado about nothing.
Baseball will pay and “do right” to make this go away taking into account the current political and the issues with baseball and integration.
Hernandez will get his little win, and baseball will be better of for it.
Anything that breaks down the BS “good ol boy” networks are better for the sport and everyone involved in it.
Many of you think that Hernandez suck, and so he may. But that is not the issue. The bigger picture is equal access to all. The win for the Hernandez team is all the non minority umps that suck ass and still get ahead and make more money.
Slam dunk.
Using Hernandez as the Rosa Parks of Hispanic umps is a curious decision. It’s not “most people” that thinks he “sucks”… it’s the universe that knows he does. If minority umps need to make a stand, why not Marquez?
youre missing the bigger picture. It’s not the who by the why.
Maybe Marquez is ok with where he is.
Again, Hernandez may suck but all his team has to do is show that plenty others suck as well.
Baseball would not want a long drawn out affair, the bad press and most likely will have to pay Hernandez the back pay he wants, which is peanuts in the bigger picture.
Again, slam dunk.
But The Who gives much more to the legitimacy of the Why.
If there is, in fact, some sort of bias against Hispanic umps, then using Hernandez as the poster child absolutely weakens this supposed slam dunk case.
I mean…seriously… “Your honor, he hasn’t been chosen because he’s terrible”. I don’t believe it’s a class action suit, it’s a personal one. Hernandez is the wrong person
We can agree to disagree. To me the message is the bigger picture, not the person delivering it.
There are a multitude of guys that may suck, white or ethnic. they should be paid the same and awarded the same for years of service.
These kinds of cases can get really expensive, baseball will pay out.
And wrong or not, Hernandez will be the winner.
My question, has Joe West been allowed to do the post season, (and I don’t know the answer) if so then Hernandez has a legitimate claim. If not umps that suck don’t get to the post season.
There you have it.
Gonna be very unpopular, but West is far superior to Hernandez.
I saw that Hernandez “Worst Strike of the Year” video. The ball was outside by half the width of home plate because that’s where the catcher set up. Like the author of the accompanying article said, you’ve got such a large sample size of bad with Hernandez that you’re not even sure “the worst” is really THE worst. A guy could bat with an oar and not hit a Hernandez strike.
A log is far superior to Hernandez.
Those who suck have always been unfairly discriminated against.
how many SHITTY cops out there keep their jobs because of the power of their unions??!!?
Same shit different profession.
Dickheads everywhere.
We’re all racists, right? So we must all be shitty.
Do we have anyone in the AAA All Star game?
River Cats tweeted Tyler Rodgers a Reliever .
How impressive
Rodgers has one very suspicious stat i.e., 23 SO in 52.1 IP. Low ERA but one feels that won’t last with those SO numbers. How DOES he have that low an ERA?
All the good River Cats are on the Giants or injured (Arroyo). Shaw hasn’t been there long enough, probably.
“good” and “river cats” most likely don;t go in the same sentence too often
Point taken
Do we have anyone in the AAAA all-star game?
This Friday when the Giants play again!
You mean you missed it?!
Ouch!
Schulman tweeted that Jean Machi came on in relief. Does he count? Schulman said he allowed a leadoff homer and wondered if Machi was “gassed.”
There are certain kinds of calls that any real cop wants to go to. Typically, they would be in-progress, violent crimes, but this one would also qualify:
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/07/12/instagram-model-arrested-for-attacking-police-during-nude-encounter-at-florida-hotel.html
I want to make a citizen’s arrest.
It doesn’t say if he had his body cam activated.
If someone has posted this already my apologies. Payton as host of ESPYS it is funny except KD does not think so.
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19976947&sf97523248=1
Nunez is DHing for the SJ Giants tonight and is 1 for 2. That’s good. He was supposed to start at 3B, but there was a late switch to DH. That sounds less good.
They just PH for him. That’s weird.
He has a 2 at bat quota for July
He probably pulled something sitting on the bench.
Hamstrings take 4-6 weeks usually, not 10-15 days. They’re in a bind since they want to shop him. Otherwise it makes no sense to rush him. It’s also his walk year, so pushing it too hard could harm his free agent options.
I’ve been a bit lost for the past few days: on another note has it been confirmed Slater is done for the rest of the season?
He’s out 2-3 months. Best case he’d be back in the latter half of September. Such a bummer.
Thanks, Doc.
Reynolds 2 for 3 with his 5th HR. Jebavy with a hat trick 🙁
The next 19 days are going to be pure TWG magic as we have a real time window into the utter excitement borne of the trade deadline through the eyes of Ryan! I will learn about dudes I have NEVER heard of as A++ prospects that Bobby should target, the ramifications of cash transactions and who might be the PTBNL…
I kid…but I know so little about our prospects, let along those playing on the Lansing Lug Nuts. So, hats off to Ryan the Footman and you folks that can mine talent out of the depths of the minors.
This will be the most interesting deadline, with literally no immediate consequence, that we have seen in about 9 years.
How odd to watch from an “unload” perspective rather than “polish up the silverware for a playoff run”.,,I know there have been seasons spiced in that weren’t playoff caliber, but not like this.
The Morning Ryan Reports will be epic must read contributions.
Eyeballs. Read all you want. Real assessment takes eyeballs. Oh, and time.
It has always been my method…but you knew that!
I’m already bracing myself for the loss of Belt, one of my favorites since he came up six years ago. I just have a huge soft spot for that big awkward lefty goofball, and I’m going to miss him and his blog and his movie reviews if he goes. I understand the situation objectively, but it’s just going to be less fun for me without him. It was bad enough that they traded Duffy on my birthday last year–I loved that kid and his big fat cat–and if they trade Belt or Panik or both, a part of me is going to weep.
He might bring a good haul from a team like the Yanks. Definitely the most valuable piece they’d be willing to part with.
I know. I get it. It still makes me sad.
Can you imagine this blog if he hit 40 bombs for the Yanks next year?
I’ll be leading the torches and pitchforks parade.
I think everyone here would expect a natural uptick in HR if he went to almost any other ballpark.
I don’t think there should be any legitimate concern, because ultimately you are right about Posey; he is going to keep trucking behind the plate. While it makes sense at some level to open up 1B for Posey and young bats to get at-bats, the organization is going to stick with the horses they have signed up long term. There’s no indication that this is the type of organization that is going to totally restrategize overnight. So Belt stays put for next year, probably the year after and maybe something opens up when he has 2 years left on his contract and is still putting up an 125 OPS+.
I don’t know. It does seem like they need to shake some things up and bring in some new talent. Nunez can’t get back on the field. Cueto’s mediocre and has a complicated contract situation. It seems like Belt and Panik are the only meaningful trade chips right now, unless they go for more targeted moves like trading Strickland or Dyson or Mac Williamson, each of whom might bring something back, but not that much. Samardzija, maybe, I guess.
I’m guessing if they get a good offer for Belt, they’ll conclude that with Jones, Shaw, and Hwang all at/near the major league level, they can afford to see which one of those guys can grab the job for next year.
Trading their HR/RBI leader having a Gold Glove season would help with the tanking, too.
We know what they need to do, we also know they won’t do what we think they need to do.
I think their chances of trading Panik are much greater. There’s about 4 guys they could run through 2B in his stead and they could find a CF type in return.
You could be right. Remember last year the Yankees’ starting point for Andrew Miller with the Giants was Panik. Hahahaha. We could have used Miller last year, but he’d be pretty wasted on THIS year’s squad. On the other hand, if they’d gotten Miller, they could have bought a left fielder instead of Melancon. Ah, well.
There wasn’t much out there. Cespedes, who wasn’t coming here. Desmond isn’t doing much in Colo. Fowler perhaps and move Span. But I’m sure he’d prefer Stl. Jose Bautista had the RH power but at 36, lousy def.
I’ll bet you an ice cream they don’t trade your boy Belt.
What makes you think I even like ice cr—oh, yeah. I remember now. 🙂
I’ll buy you a six-pack if they don’t!
besides the market isn’t going to be favorable for selling belt with his contract. There’s a good amount of options out there for 1B.
That would be the limiting factor–they shouldn’t trade Belt for nothing, no matter how much Efrain hates him.
See my post above which is a reaction to your previous post. No trades at all except Cueto who WILL opt out ’cause we suck. He wants another KCR to go to. But the infield core four (Belt/Panik/Crawford/Posey) should all be kept so we put a somewhat watchable team out there. The place where we need that shake up is our scouts and player development guys. I mean a thorough housecleaning. That could be our biggest growth spurt if we get busy now.
I don’t think Sabevans are suicidal so I believe Belt/Panik/Posey/Crawford will not be moved and SHOULD not be moved. I know our minors are OF-weak and overloaded with so-so IF. Why not keep the core together and see if a happy development story happens with an OF’er in the minors? Our entire OF and nearly all of our pitching suck … precisely where we won’t get real help from the minors. Thus, Giants fans will go through a multi-year period where most of their joy and entertainment must come from watching AAA kids trying to make it, a pitching performance here or there, and Panik/Crawford turning a beautiful DP. We’re spoiled rotten by 3 WS wins but now patience, not wild gyrations, should be the rule.
Not the biggest Belt fan, but I wouldn’t be happy to see him go if we don’t get at least two of these guys in return on top of acquiring Greg Bird: Gleyber Torres (Probably not going to happen), Tyler Wade, Clint Frazier (Ship is starting to sail), or Chance Adams. Any of those guys would instantly become the Giants’ #1 prospect but chances are, Yankees are not going to part ways with any of them. In other words, Giants shouldn’t trade anyone at the deadline if they’re not acquiring top talent.
Tbh,I don’t want to see Evans trying to force trades by putting names out there just for the sake of making a move. Giants are obvious sellers at the deadline and other teams know that. Giants are dealing from a position of weakness, so if other teams aren’t putting out their best offer or unwilling to part ways with some of their top prospects, Evans should just stay pat at the deadline.
Sometimes the best move is not making a move at all. It will be a good test of character for the guys on the roster to see who shows up in the second half as well.
That would be quite a coup. Getting a cost effective, talented replacement for Belt AND top prospect outfield and pitching talent as well!
Right there with you. He’s been MyGuy since day one. We 1B gotta stick together and I love that guy. I think they wait until the offseason, unless someone overwhelms them with an offer.
Agree with you there. We get emotionally attached to some of these kids as they progress not only through the minors, but when they finally make the big club, and Duffy and Panik are two that standout, along with Slater and Crick. Duggar will be another.
Two of Our Guys at Richmond got some PT in the Eastern League All-Star game. Slade Heathcott, CF, was 1 for 4 with 3 Ks. CJ Hinojosa, SS, was 0 for 1.
Will the Giant get Heathcott on the 40 man and give him an audition in CF later this summer?
They should. Might as well. Bummer about Duggar, too.
I like Hinojosa. Could he play 3B?
For sure.
Did Duggar have another setback? I thought he was healthy and back in the lineup.
Duggar may attain the reputation as an athlete that can’t stay on the field. Last year was all good, but I believe he had a two injury combo this spring – one leg and the other arm related. Back in college, at Clemson, I believe he had injury woes which is caused his draft stock to drop and enable the Giants to get him in the 6th round (or was it the 5th?).
Sixth round pick in 2015.
His was a hip injury … #FIRESTRETCHINGCOACH … More flukey 2017 problems.
He came back for two games in San Jose: 2-7 with 2 DB’s and 3 RBI … wRC+ of 124 … Okay, okay “Ultra-Super-duper SSS”
Yes. He only played in four games, but the hamstring injury he’s been struggling with tightened up again. I think he’d only been DHing, too. Bummer.
I saw Hinojosa play while at Texas (along with KD at basketball) and I don’t recall C.J. playing any 3B. He’s been a SS since he started his pro career.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=c.j.-hinojosa
They need to update their records. He’s played some 20 games at 3b this yr for Richmond.
Good to know.
Aaaah, good to know, thanks. Hinojosa’s supposed to have a nice glove, but alas, SS is blocked…they figured it out with Panik, Duffy, and Arroyo, though.
Shades of Marrero Hernandez
Best suit ever… Conor McGregor’s that he wore to the press conference yesterday for his fight with Floyd Mayweather next month:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/03c0853a055a83e1057a71b50637799aa4c27e5a09cd143c65dba876f8fae8c9.jpg
McGregor is the best at hyping something that I’ve ever seen.
Keith Law released a midseason top 50 prospect update and i’ll save everyone the time, no Giants are on it. Maybe a potential shopping list for trades though?
http://www.espn.com/blog/keith-law/insider/post?id=7372
Seems blocked so I cannot answer this myself but is it players that have not been up to the MLB this year or players that have shown some MLB results this year?
I say this because if they look for MLB evidence then I think the Giants have an argument for Slater [109 wRC+] and Blach [1.1 WAR] … But maybe these Top 50 have done better than that?
I believe it is only those who have not been called up yet.
Among rookies with at least 100 PA’s Slater is #12 in wRC+ in the MLB … http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=100&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=2&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d
There are 43 rookies with at least 100 PAs.
The other Giants with over 100 PAs is Arroyo who is 43 with a 43 wRC+.
Arroyo did not start out that bad but had some key hits with power and played well in the field but then slumped badly.
Before his injury I was really curious about what was going to happen to Slater’s babip. During his first few weeks it was at an unsustainable .400, and then started to plummet his last couple weeks (but still sits at a high .342). I’m curious where it would have settled, and where his wRC+ would have then settled (likely around 90).
No problem. 50 isn’t big enough to describe the talents on the Giants farm. Baseball America has Chris Shaw at #86. If we could only see 100-200, we’d see Tyler Beede, Bryan Reynolds, and Andrew Suarez. Heck, let’s throw Heliot Ramos into the Top 200 !
I can’t see this either, but one thing I’m definitely noticing is that the omniscient prospect rankers are now giving pitching prospect the appropriate short shrift. “There is no such thing as a pitching prospect!” is the battle cry – even though some guys look a lot better suited to get outs int he pros than others. They should all really do two lists: one for positional prospects and the other for those flimsy, dangling set of elbow ligaments known as pitchers.
Thanks for the firewalled link – your intentions were good. Have a great day 🙂
Best news of the day!
Hope Lefty doesn’t see her guy Durant on the ESPY clips. As my mother used to say, “what a stick in the mud.” Lighten up KD, you are on top of the world.
i don’t blame him for being over that particular criticism…it’s not a joke necessarily when the city that you gave 9 years, countless hours of charity time and millions of dollars uses that nasty refrain for a year…and then it’s used to make you the butt of a joke in front of all 47 ESPN viewers. The “threats”, the jerseys being burned (how tired) and then this ongoing unwarranted criticism…he’s clearly over it.
It needs to be said right here–by me–that not all OKC Thunder fans dissed him like that. However, I do realize that I am in a very small minority there. KD was MyThunderGuy since the day he was drafted, but I’m so happy for him these days.
I remember watching KD play while at The University of Texas (Hook ’em Horns!) and thought to myself that this guy is going to be special.
I guess technically he was YourSonicGuy, right? 🙂
totalfan62, you’re not just a small minority in the OKC fandom, you are a small minority in all of sports fandom. You’re one of the guys who just gets it.
I see similar issues in the way many Florida Gator fans view Urban Meyer. He is vilified by a large number who believe his physical ailments were phony, that he left UF to avoid the rise of Saban and Alabama and he planned way ahead to secure his spot at Ohio State.
To me, he won two national titles, got sick, left, got better, decided to return to coaching and a plum of a job opened at the right time. I am grateful for the success Florida enjoyed while he was there.
Negativity over people who leave to go elsewhere could be better directed at the Dodgers or Florida State.
I read a stupid article yesterday about how “cruel,” yes, CRUEL, KD was to put a full-page ad in Bay Area newspapers thanking the Warriors and the fans for a great season. Why “cruel”? Because it just “pulls the scab off” for the OKC fans, since he didn’t take out a full-page ad when he left OKC.
Sheessh. He does something cool and classy and someone literally characterized it as “cruel.” I don’t blame him for being over it.
I saw it. It just added to my already existing impression that Peyton Manning is a d**k (one who bullies and harasses women, too).
I think he was in on it. If he wasn’t, he probably would’ve been shaking his head or something, Not so angry looking.
Will the trade winds blow through San Francisco?
Or will it be just a breeze on Market Street
The funneling of air, from high to low.
http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/4300/4374/4374.gif
I love it! You’re a poet and have the perfect pic to go with your lines. In point of fact, the westerly winds that bring SF its fog are PRECISELY the funneling of air from the Pacific High into the thermal Central Valley Low.
Enlightening, fantastic piece this morning in the Wall Street Journal , titled “The Elusive Riddle of Team Chemistry” and it’s concentrated on baseball.
Many of us are struggling with this immediate drop off since mid season last year, and saw it get even worse after a couple of – what seemed like – reasonable trades.When I took the leap to mention the possibility of the chemistry being harmed with the Duffy trade, I was ridiculed by the prime instigator, as he teased with condescending terms about my thinking they all needed little blankies and such.
Well…” Increasingly, forward thinking franchises think it’s possible not only to measure the impact of chemistry, but to cultivate positive chemistry in an intentional and systematic fashion”…
Now , it’s obviously not the only factor, nor is it easy to measure…” The problem with trying to comprehend chemistry is the inherent challenge of separating it from talent. Teams that win have chemistry. Teams that lose don’t” (hello late 2016 and all of 2017) “It’s easy to assume that the best way to generate chemistry in a clubhouse is to simply fill that room with the best baseball players possible. Any differences they may have will be cured by success. Research across various disciplines is underway designed to cut through that noise”.
Boom. Now, it’s impossible to point to any single thing and say “That’s it!! It ruined the Giants chemistry!!!” but to dismiss it totally, as some usual suspect has, is also foolish. This team went from rolling to dead.
Let’s just allow for the fact that in addition to a talent problem (one that ALSO seemed to exist to a level in the championship years – they were NEVER the most talented), there is a distinct argument that this team DOES have a gigantic team chemistry issue. Anecdotally, we can recall the damning quotes by Cueto, AND the cliff dive after the Duffy trade.
Thanks … It is of high interest to me as I have even started a list of what makes for good chemistry or the ClubHouseFactor™. I think things like Peavy coming back to his original manager and Vogey coming back to his original team generate good chemistry too. It will be interesting to read this.
Speaking of Vogey, he was spotted at the SJ game the other night when Bumgarner pitched. No idea why he was there, but it appeared to be in some team-official capacity. Curious to hear some explanation about that.
Chemistry Professor!!!!!!
Chainsaw angry!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hitw10tD148
that was awesome commercial!
I didn’t realize until I looked it up that the “construction worker” is a local comedian, not just a schmoe walk-on actor. It IS well-done.
I think the commercial would have been better if he’d smacked the jerk with a right hook.
I loved that he threw the bowl of cereal against the wall. Perfect.
Wouldn’t that be nice to have him in the SFG pitching development system? Fought throw many things himself and has that link to the Glory Days.
Amen, brother!! And it’s precisely our player development systems that are, IMO, in desperate need of an overhaul.
I agree. I’ve been ridiculed, too, for pointing out that baseball players are human beings and baseball teams are human organizations. As to the former, some would say that the amount of money they make should mitigate fatigue, anxiety, or any kind of human emotion. As to the latter, some (the usual “experts” who talk down to the rest of us) would argue that a baseball team is different and that no analogy to a business or another type of institution or organization could possibly ever apply.
I don’t buy it. I think human beings are human beings.
Another point I’ll note as to the “chemistry” factor: I’ve been a professor for over 25 years now, working with the same age group my whole career. As generational demographics change, the students change, too. For example, 20 years ago, I could give a 75-minute lecture (and I’m a good lecturer) and keep most/all of my class with me. Now? You can’t “talk at” people for more than about 10 minutes without breaking up the information with a discussion question or hands-on activity. Why’s that? Well, we’ve all had our attention spans eroded by technology and “smart” devices always clamoring for our attention. (I’m not judging–I’ve noticed that in myself. I find it harder to concentrate during a half-hour TV show without wanting to check Twitter or something. I get why my students are distracted because I am, too.)
As this relates to baseball teams, you have a manager and coaches who are mostly Baby Boomers (Nevin and Agui would be Gen Xers) relating to Millennials and Gen Zers (I don’t think the post-Millennial generation has a catchy name yet). This affects that workplace like it affects my classroom or your business. It just does. It’s pointless to mock that or resist it. You have to keep re-learning your audience and finding the best ways to reach them.
End of pedantic lecture!
I LOVE it…My peers and I often have these very discussions…now, my teams aren’t athletes or students, but the situation you describe is awfully familiar. I am in a position currently because of the mentors I had in the businesses i worked at in my mid-late-twenties. they “lectured”, “taught” and I listened with great interest.
Now, I should be that mentor, and boy, do i try. When I’m not on here (and sometimes when i am ..) I am usually in conference call sessions including clients and then follow ups that are internal. The team of young professionals on both sides are impatient and distracted. Yet, I continue to mentor as if they are hanging on every word…and most do give effort. But times have changed.
I should have mentioned the management/coaching staff ages in my original post as well…as much as I think he’s an attention whore, one reason Maddon is having success going all the way back to Tampa days is he is doing his level best to engage and insert himself in the millineal environment and craft his methods and messages to meet their interest and attention.
Yep. I actually work hard to stay relevant. I keep up with classroom technology. I try to stay in tune with popular culture (that always keeps students engaged). I read articles and go to workshops about teaching today’s college students. I can also see that there will be a day in the future, not as far away as it used to be, when it will be time for me to hang ’em up.
I don’t feel that it’s their job to adjust to me–well, somewhat. I do structure the class and make the rules. But it’s my job to convey information and content in a way that makes sense to them.
P.S. I also blog on here during stupid meetings. Thank God it’s the norm to bring laptops to meetings now or I’d go insane.
Again, love your comments about your experiences as an educator. However, my feeling of out-of-touchness with pop culture and social media led me to become disenchanted about tech dominance though I taught deep operating system programming. I’ve always believe technology should be a servant but nowadays it seems like we’re ITS servant. Try to break your Twitter addiction, Lefty. You won’t regret it after some post-addiction withdrawal time is allowed to pass.
As to “classroom technology”, I feel that face-to-face classes allow a Socratic dialog where a spontaneously posed question leads to an answer which leads to another question which leads to another answer and so on. Teaching classes on computers cripples classes to my mind because the computer is a rigid responder. That Socratic dialog just doesn’t happen and I think the end result is much poorer.
You are forgiven for posting on TWG during meetings. I always dreaded meetings. They’re a time sink and rarely accomplish much.
Adding to your point, and mine above: the biggest challenge I have is trying too get these younger teammates to TRULY understand the situation from the other perspective…there is a lost art that is, in my opinion, resulting from an unbelievable level of rampant selfishness. tech plays part by reducing interaction, but the participation trophy environment does as well… learning to “lose” and to “win” are critically important lessons in learning to negotiate and come to agreements in every facet of life…and when you assemble a group of people, that isolated , but too common, selfishness crushes team dynamics
I agree completely. No more “participation” trophies.
Computer science is so complex that Socratic dialogs reveal what a computer-taught class never can. Isn’t it ironic that a computer teaching a computer science class is so lame!!
I have found this brief lecture to be quite interesting in connection with young people in the workplace. Simon Sinek makes the claim that it’s up to the employer to “train” these people in the traits that should have been learned at home. The workplace is the last arena in which proper social behavior can be taught.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU
In old school education, a person wasn’t considered educated unless their social being was as sophisticated as their raw academic learning. Now, students want ultra-targeted classes … targeted to a JOB and, often, to certain technologies. They are impatient with knowledge where they can’t see the job-relevance connection. No wonder they find their own relationships “superficial” as the video says. Thanks for sharing a great video.
AWESOME. Thanks
I like my Twitter addiction, thanks. It’s a great source for up-to-the-minute news and links to articles I want to read. And I am capable of keeping it under control(!).
Classroom technology is more than teaching online. For example, I teach a grammar (lecture) course once a year. I have discussion activities and practice exercises I can project for students to apply the material on the spot. Yes, I could photocopy 65 handouts, but that’s wasteful and no longer necessary. Or I could write the exercises on the board, but that’s time-consuming, and, as a lefty, my handwriting on a chalk or white board is horrendous. (Thank God for PowerPoint.) I also throw in cartoons and video clips to liven things up, since grammar can be a dry subject, to put it politely.
I can post all of the materials onto my course site on Canvas (our learning management system), so students can review the lecture slides and exercises later. I can also create quizzes on Canvas for additional practice and self-study. I can send announcements and reminders to the class, we can grade exams and papers online, and students can keep track of their grades and even their attendance.
When I teach smaller writing classes, they’re nearly always in a computer lab. I can have the students do hands-on writing activities rather than just talking at them and having them write at home. I can show them how to use the library database to do research for their papers, and they can practice finding sources on the spot. They can use Google Docs or collaborative tools on Canvas for group activities.
Technology has to serve the pedagogy, not the other way around, but I love it. It’s made teaching easier–both the in-class part and the class administration part–and more fun.
But what of in-class Socratic dialog, Lefty? Questions lead to answers which generate other questions/answers. I think computers are great for FAQs but it’s precisely in language skills where I see the modern student most compromised. Their vocabularies are small and specialized. Cogs for the industrial machine! I think you and I are definitely on opposite sides of this issue but that’s why you fit in and why I’m retired. Think of the Orwellianism in your quote “Canvas – our learning MANAGEMENT system. Learning should be about conversations, not “managed” interactions.
Grammar can be enlivened when taught at the same time as new vocabulary. When my computer science students wrote comments in their code I could see that their sentence structuring was poor and verbose. They just didn’t have the right word at the right time in the right sentence. Love of language and words just isn’t like it used to be.
Is it possible in today’s world to have a “No Phones” edict in the classroom?
I put on my syllabus that phones are to be on “silent” and put away unless required for a class activity. Sometimes, though, phones and laptops can be useful. There are some cool apps where you can project a question on the screen, students can use their phones to record an answer, and the responses are then projected as class percentages–great interactive tool and useful for on-the-spot assessment of whether students are tracking with the concepts.
I actually prefer for my students to bring some kind of mobile device to class so that we can access the course Canvas site as needed. It’s my job to keep the class engaging enough that they don’t drift into online shopping. The interesting thing is that it can be hard to get students to cooperate with bringing their laptops–they don’t like to schlep them around. So I do end up having to photocopy some in-class exercises, as I can’t count on all the students being able to access them online. (Then there’s the sketchy Wifi in some of our older buildings…)
Loved your comments about your students. We live in the ADHD era. It caused me to sour on my own teaching job and I retired early. Though I taught computer science and statistics I am a Luddite when it comes to my attitude about people who are married to their smartphones. I use my own smartphone as a dumb phone because I only use it to send/receive texts and calls. I’ve never read one email on my smartphone and when I’m out with people my smartphone stays in my pocket. Seems like you’ve fallen prey to the electronic age to some degree (Twitter) but me … I’m a freaking dinosaur. I mean geez … I haven’t even created a TWG avatar!! I haven’t even looked up how to do it!!
Dinosaurs are coming back in a big way. Just prepping the climate for imminent arrival. Luddites unite! Somebody has to saddle and ride those giant reptiles!
I hope you’re right! I’m sick of the technology-uber-alles era. Even on TV, I never watch futuristic shows that feature gee-whiz-technology-whizbangery. I’d much rather watch “Gunsmoke” reruns. Though I taught systems programming and loved it, I’ve always felt out of place in the tech era. I like paper books and dumb phones. Why, I even have a landline and won’t give it up!
Ever hear of or read this book? Have I asked you this before?
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/79678.Technopoly
No, you’ve never asked me but in fact, I own that book! Neil Postman was a great social commentator and he nailed in “Technopoly”. Even the subtitle is astute … the SURRENDER of culture to technology. Well, damn it, I haven’t “surrendered” and I doubt I ever will. I think modern culture is about being married to cellphones and social media. I’ve never Tweeted, have only a skeleton Facebook account, and prefer talking on my landline. It never drops calls.
Awesome. We have appear to have some similar plumage, amigo. Cheers!
I would certainly never criticize you for making a comment about team chemistry in regards to the Duffy trade. The post trade comments by other Giants seemed pointedly anti-trade so they really miss him and I do think that’s very important. You’re right … on paper the Giants were never the most talented but, especially on that 2010 team, it’s obvious that love triumphed over all! Those guys played for one another! I will never, ever, forget the Renteria homer in the WS.
Losing certainly generates mood sourness. Reports in the media always seem to refer to a glum, quiet clubhouse. However, even though they know they’re not a pennant contender, I believe they have enough underperformers who could find themselves, especially Moore. His “stuff” passes the eye test but then he hangs one and it seems like he loses focus. Cain, however, … the poor guy is done and the stuff he’s been tossing up there looks so very hittable.
Nice post, Matthew!
Funny thing, Matt, is I’ve thought about chemistry for many years. It’s ephemeral. That’s one sure thing I have come up with. That’s not to say there are not some key components that, to me, seem essential to have.
I’m an old guy that has been involved in sports (and business) for over six decades. It is rare to have been involved in, or be a member of, teams that have “magic” and that were successful, at the same time.
Believe me when I say I’ve thought about it and talked about it with many I’ve been involved with in my life. I’ve witnessed it twice. Once as a player and once as a coach. I approached it once (almost) in business.
There appears, to me, to be a couple of critical components that if not present will never allow a team to approach real magic. One is talent. I’m not talking about “star” talent, but a minimum of talent for the entire team (at least in the personnel on the field). Another is having a couple, at least, of key and very talented players with a supporting cast of minimally competent and hard-working teammates. There IS a minimum level of talent, but it isn’t having a team that is all outstanding players. It is having a group of people that have each other’s back. Somebody has an off day and somebody else (maybe more than one) picks up the slack. Then there are those days when everybody is on and it seems like magic.
The other thing, to me, is the team has fun when they’re playing and to some degree, even when they’re not. There is a certain camaraderie that exists even when not playing. On the field, it seems, there is always someone there to pick the others up and it is not always the same person. It doesn’t have to be the star players, it’s someone that has that quality of leadership in the moment.
So, having the right people is essential. Having the knowledge to assemble the right people is partly skill and mostly luck. It is very difficult to assemble the right people, if not impossible. If one were capable of assembling the right group ahead of time, everybody would do it. The problem is knowing ahead of time what the challenges of a season will be ahead of time and at the same time knowing how everybody will react to those challenges when they occur.
Here’s the other thing I’ve witnessed. If you lose just one player, or one coach, just one single part, the whole thing can be lost… and that can happen in just a heartbeat.
So, ephemeral is the word I have for it. To others, it’s magic, or luck, or whatever. And thank God for that. If it were formulaic, it would be boring. Thankfully, magic is rare and I hope it stays that way.
Funny thing is, the one as a coach was in soccer and not baseball.
Suede Goats.
I’ve been doing a ton of hiring for the program I direct–over the last four years and over the last month (27 interviews in less than three weeks). I’m hiring (at least) ten new teachers to add to the 16 full-time instructors I already had returning.
You nailed it exactly. I look for talent first. But I also look for “chemistry” and “good team player” characteristics, both in the interviews and from the references. If someone is talented, I can even work with a lack of on-point experience for a particular position. But if they’re a high-maintenance pain-in-the-ass, that’s going to upset the chemistry and be an irritating time-suck, too.
One of the people we interviewed last week kept saying things along the lines of “My students did better than the other teachers’ students did.” I saw that as a red flag, and she didn’t get a job offer (there were other concerns, too). She asked me for feedback about her interview, and I was candid with her: “We’re a team trying to serve the students. It’s not a competition where you need to ‘win’ compared to the other teachers. We’re all in this together.”
Was it me!?🙋🏻♂️
I’ve commented in the past that I would hope it didn’t take one thing like the Duffy trade to derail what looked like a well rounded team coming off of 3 in 5.
Yes – team chemistry can be an extremely volatile thing. But to suggest that one trade completely would lead to a nosedive paints a picture of a very weak minded team. You would think winning would have toughened them up to be ready for anything.
But then we may have thought more highly of the team makeup than they deserved.
not you…it was your Belt Of the Blog friend
As Matthew pointed out, we were never the most talented team in our 3 WS years. I think the trade of a pivotal clubhouse figure really can throw a whole team for a loop. Now we have 3B by committee whereas Duffy was a gamer that was part of a great infield. You can’t take one piece from a machine and expect the machine to run right. Chemistry is the creation of that machine.
I refuse to accept that for a 3 X champion and what many thought of as a model organization.
I can see, maybe, if they had traded Posey their lone superstar or a homegrown kid like Crawford who was born a Giants fan.
But Duffy? Nice kid but he was a do everything super utility guy who while he played well his one year at 3B, it was not as if he would have been a cornerstone at the position for a decade.
If you really think that did it, then you need a blankie as much as the entire organization did.
Yes, I really want that “blankie” and so do team members. Losing Duffy broke an infield machine where the whole was much greater than the sum of its parts. Losing him in the clubhouse soured quite a few spirits. I presume you DID see Giants post-trade comments?
The sad fact is had we not made the trade, the Giants would have been scrambling for 3B options (somewhat solved by Nunez as it turned out) because Duffy hardly has played in a year and may never play again IMO. And Moore did play a big role down the stretch in the Giants even making the postseason last year.
My hopes are that Nunez comes back and hits .300 and Moore shows that last year with us was not a fluke. Matt Duffy has my fondest hopes for a full recovery and a resumption of his fruitful career. Of course you’re right about Duffy but we didn’t know in advance that disaster would befall him. We also don’t know if he’d have gone uninjured had he stayed in SF.
Duffy suffered the initial Achilles injury not too long before he was traded, so yes, we would have had the worry that part of our core wouldn’t return. 🙁 But I certainly hope The Duffman can come back strong!
What I really hope is that the Duffman makes a full recovery and resumes making the trade appear simply wrong. I didn’t like the trade and Duffy had a WAR of 4.9 in 2015 which made me question the trade immediately after it happened. He adapted so well to 3B. The boy could pick ’em and that’s why I thought the infield of Craw, Panik, Duffy, and Belt was a complete infield and they liked each other … a not inconsiderable variable.
He was like Rudy Ruttiger…not Joe Montana
I think the average person, maybe even the average fan, underestimates the amount of time that baseball teams spend “in community”. As such it would make sense that chemistry is a bigger issue for that sport than football or basketball. The amount of down time in the clubhouse and on the road travel, as well as the length of the season, would certainly exacerbate any type of relational friction with teammates.
I think I’m starting to see why might you view things the way you do. You believe my disagreements with you aren’t simply disagreements, but rather instigation. I couldn’t possibly just view things differently. When it comes to players like Posey and Curry, any criticism causes you to become very upset, hyper-focus on the negative, and completely ignore the fact that I also say things like Posey is an outstanding player and Curry is the best shooter who’s ever lived. The idea that the loss of a friend in a trade could play a significant role in turning the Giants into a 98 loss team appeals to your highly emotional nature, because that’s how you might react. There I go, instigating again.
To be fair, you do clearly instigate him when you use hyperbole like regularly saying he’s madly in love with Posey, or Posey is his hero. I don’t think you believe those two things, but you say them regularly.
Because I believe it’s true. I don’t understand getting that upset because someone dares to say something negative about one of your favorite players. Matthew has called me quite a few names over time, but I’ve considered him to have instigated me.
LOL. He’s stimulating your inner cop. 😉
Notice how interesting and mature the thread WAS?
The TO of Pooh.
You are a very interesting guy…you come pigeon drop on other peoples posts, they respond (yes, i have admittedly called you names because I honestly believe you do “bully”), and then you claim authoritative and unemotional distance.
Read my post above. Whenever I (or others) dared mention the potential chemistry results of the Duffy trade, you used instigating terms I mentioned. It is what it is, we are who we are. You instigate. I (and others) respond. Don’t try to rewrite history
I think of TO as Puck, with an unhealed circumcision. It’s sort of his everlasting, enduring stigmata.
The Illuminati’s could use a good man like TO.
I would be pretty surprised if anybody posting here viewed anybody on the current team as a “hero”. I think everybody here is old enough to no longer have athletes as personal heroes, at least not for their athletic prowess. I don’t believe that you actually think Matthew idolizes and is in literal love with Posey. I’m not saying you’re the lone instigator…but you clearly use that to instigate.
I’m surprised as well by the extent of his emotional connection to these guys. While I’m sure he doesn’t love them in the same way he loves his family members, only very strong feelings could prompt the kind of response he often has to any criticism of them. I say what I think, and often do so sarcastically, but I express my sincere opinions. If you, Matthew or anyone else want to classify them as instigation, whatever that means to you, I don’t really care.
Who’s the sensitive one now?
Because you’ve never submersed yourself in the playing or coaching side of the game save LL and up to about 13-14-15. You’ve missed a ton of inside knowledge you could have acquired. Have you played in the Police or Fire Olympics in Los Angeles? Even then you can learn alot.
4 years ago today Timmy hit a no-hitter.
3 years ago today, Buster and Bum both hit grand slams.
I was only at the latter game however. It was Angel Pagan bobblehead day!
We were supposed to be at that no-hitter in San Diego. We had plans to go for the weekend that we had to cancel at the last minute.
Watching Timmy get that no-hitter (on TV) was one of my more thrilling moments as a Giants fan. Not only did I absolutely love and adore the guy, but I’d missed watching both Sanchez’s no-hitter and Cain’s perfect game in real time (was busy and away from the TV both times). Timmy’s 2013 no-hitter was my first time actually watching it as it happened. It was amazing.
I was at that game 3 years ago too! They played the DBacks! It was my little girl’s first game at AT&T and I remember telling her after the first GS (Buster’s) that she just saw something unbelievably special and odds were low she’d see another one soon. Loved that I was wrong. Remember that the park went crazy when Bum hit the second shot.
Hello! Trade gust!! Cubs acquire Jose Quintana from White Sox!
Sox get Cubs top prospect and #5 overall midseason prospect by BA plus others, Cease is notable.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-acquire-jose-quintana.html
Gotta be some sort of market for Cueto that pays an intriguing outfield prospect – not that level, but the next tier down.
Economical relocation costs
Could end up biting the Cubs in the arse. He doesn’t look any better than Leake.
Track record says he’s pretty good, and has a more team friendly deal than Bum, for the next 3 and half years .
That’s what we said about Moore….4.49 era this year….We’ll see now how he does with the pressure of a pennant race.
Last few years he was Cained a lot , lack of run support, but overall numbers were better than Bumgarner’s , small sample size this year playing for a team that was rebuilding, and he was rumored to be traded since Winter meetings, he might of been spooked by that .
I admit to not following him. Just reminded me of G’s in 11 and 15. Could of course work out great for them.
What overall #’s are better than Bum’s? Don’t see that at all.
The WAR crowd like him better than BUM for some reason , not me, last year according to ESPN,com, his WAR was 5.2, Bums 5.0, over the last 4 years not counting this year his WAR is 18.1 and Bum’s is 17 .8 .
0.3 points of WAR over a 5 year sample really isn’t “likes more”, it means they’ve been pretty similar. They aren’t really similar pitchers, but their value is similar. They both give over 200 innings (Bumgarner even moreso), but Quintana’s ERA is pretty low considering his park and the historically bad defense that’s been behind him in Chicago. Quintana limits HR better than Bum, but gets less Ks. It’s just a matter of preference. I’d go Bum without thinking twice, but Quintana is a great pitcher.
I just thought of it, Park factor and a DH league, Bum plays in best Pitcher park in MLB without a DH, Brian Kenny on his MLB now show has always loved Quintana and undervalued BUM, when he Ranks Starting Pitchers on his show, which he use to do often on that show .
Pitcher WAR is weird, anyway. I like it better for position players because it takes into account things like defense and base running, but the formulas for pitchers in Fangraphs and BB Ref seem a bit arbitrary to me.
Take Samardzija. Fangraphs WAR loves him; he’s at 2.3 already (2.6 for all of last year by comparison). His K/BB rates are the best of his career, but his HR rate is the highest it’s been since 2010, and his ERA is 4.58 with a 4-10 WL record.
To me, Samardzija’s FIP/xFIP of 3.44 and 3.09, showing that he has, in fact, pitched in some tough luck, is way more interesting than his WAR.
Fangraphs bases their pitcher WAR on FIP/xFIP, bbref bases theirs on ERA+. I think the best method is to look on fangraphs under a player’s “Value” section, as that shows their FIP WAR and also their RA9 WAR (Runs allowed – even unearned – per 9 innings). I’ve found splitting the difference between the two passes the eye test pretty nicely. The value section also details what ways a pitcher may have gotten extra value for his stats, like if less of his inherited runners have scored, or if he induces more double plays.
Now relief pitcher WAR feels mostly useless to me. I think RE24 is the best way to look at relievers.
Bumgarner is going to be a high mileage pitcher for his age in 2 years. Watch for issues longer term with the surgically repaired arm. Reports of 89-90 instead of 94 for his fastball says he is week for his return.
Much easier to tolerate garbage when they make only $6 million a year.
I believe he started slow and has come on strong of late, back to form if you will. They did give up a very exciting OF prospect with big time power – who they perhaps evaluated as Jorge Soler II.
Quintana blows Leake out of the water as a pitcher. And his contract is incredibly cheap. Leake’s best season can’t touch Quintana’s worst season of the last 5 years. But I do think the Sox waited too long to trade him.
Perhaps – but hard for them to have done any better for the headliner prospect.
Lol you think Lesle is as good as Quintana. You need to get your baseball card revoked
Might be more of a future-oriented move than a this-week move, as Quintana’s not setting the world on fire this season. But the Cubs did need to add a young, controllable starter. It’s similar to what the Giants did in adding Moore last year. We’ll see how that works out for them.
It’s very much now and forward.
“he has racked up 45 strikeouts with a 2.70 ERA over his last forty innings.”
Agree, there’s a huge potential upside with Quintana.
I was worried that the Giants management would toss this season to some bad luck with injuries and other things, bring back the same guys with some small changes (like signing a cheap veteran LF), and see what happens next year.
But reading Sabean’s interview made me think they are taking this season very hard and know that it’s a real issue (the most poignant response was to the combination of the 2nd half last year and the 1st half this year which Sabean responded to by saying “Maybe there was a false positive in having beaten the Mets (in the NL Wild Card game) and perhaps being so competitive against the Cubs.”
I for one was glad to hear this. Who knows if the necessary changes can be made and what those changes could even be when many of the players like Pence are still on big contracts. But at least the management is as frustrated and taking things as seriously as anyone (if not more).
Yes, the “false positive” phrase was insightful. I even thought the 2014 championship was something of a “false positive.” Yes, the team played great in October, especially Bumgarner, but they had a horrendous second half and barely limped into the second wild card spot.
They did try to get Lester and Shields after that season, knowing that the rotation was a weak link, but when they fell short on those guys, they defaulted to overpaying Peavy to come back and bringing Vogey back. And when Pablo decided to exit to Boston, they thought trading for Casey McGehee was a great Plan B. (My criticism at the time was that they didn’t seem to have a Plan B–it didn’t seem to occur to them that Pablo would leave.) But overall, I’d say they under-responded and rested on their laurels in 2015; that team turned out to be a surprisingly entertaining product thanks to out-of-nowhere guys like Duffy and Heston.
Casey McGehee was such an obvious trap. It’s like they totally bought into an empty batting average, 7 weeks of unsustainably good play, and ignored his league leading 32 GIDP. That was the moment I realized their talent evaluation was majorly lacking. And I even then I couldn’t have predicted McGehee being as bad as he turned out to be. They just looked so foolish and desperate going after him. It bummed me out.
Not as big a trap as signing Sandoval would’ve been.
That part was smart, and I always thought the Giants’ front office was posturing about trying to bring him back. I think they knew the score with Pablo after all those years. It was the lack of an alternate plan that was the problem.
I thought it was a stupid move from the moment I saw it: Really? A World Series MVP, a homegrown fan favorite walks, and…THAT’s what you come up with?
Now, I got why they let Pablo walk, and in hindsight, it absolutely worked out for the best for the Giants. It was the lack of a backup plan that troubled me. (And the irony is that the answer, Duffy, was already on the team. But, as with Duvall, they didn’t initially have the imagination to see him as an answer.)
The one thing I got really wrong was equating McGehee’s talent with his character. He turned out to be very valuable to Duffy’s seasoning and move into his spot. He turned out to be a very good guy.
Yes, he certainly did, and it said a lot about Duffy that he repeatedly acknowledged that, too.
Making that even more weird, the Giants Extra nation was all over the possibility of moving Duffy into the 3B spot. If we’re seeing it…
I’ve been scathing about Bochy’s treatment of young players, but Duffy was one he got right. Duffy unexpectedly made the team out of camp in 2015 and then was the starting 3B by mid-May, even though it meant benching a guy Evans traded for and to whom they were paying $5 million.
Duffy and Ty Blach are two guys that I’ve noticed Bochy really, really is impressed with, in terms of non-silver spoon younger players.
Crawford made the leap into the pantheon quicker than most, as well..and Joltin’ Joe P (although his had the Uggla Hiccup)
Posey too (even if it seems obvious, Molina was the type of guy Bochy would love to stay with).
Wait!!!! Maybe Bochy DOESN’T have an anti-youth bias after all!!!
(Bumgarner, Cain, Lincecum, Posey, Crawford, Duffy, Panik….)
Not as much as many of us want to think (including me!).
When you think TWG rosterbation games are goofy, you have an anti-youth bias.
They had to trade Molina before Bochy would play him.
It was for his (Bochy’s) own good!
After a long trail of hopeless idiots at short.
Slater-ish (without the nasty injury)
Crawford was benched in favor of Orlando Cabrera.
Crawford got there in quick order…you know it!
He was DEMOTED TO AAA for Orlando Cabrera. I may never get over that!
We still brought in the overrated and underperforming McGee, and spent the first 4-5 weeks trying to “get him going”. We all saw in the 2014 WS that Duffy was, as many have said, “a ballplayer.”
I think the hardest thing to do as a team is to make the tough decisions after winning it all. In some ways 2014 was a curse because it covered up all the problems.
I drink that bloody 2014 curse down like a vampire….
David Forst is now licking his chops over prospective Sonny Gray haul. Gray has been pitching well the past month. Almost K per inning, low 3’s ERA, low BAA. He would like to show old man Beano what he can do. I have to imagine Dodgers are a candidate. A’s spent considerable time scouting their system prior to deadline trades last year and have likely continued to monitor target pieces.
Is he interviewing Nixon, too?
Oh, wait…FORST!! Got it
Dodgers have been linked to Grey for quite some time by plenty of experts
Dave Robertson has proven he ‘gets it’, and Kenley Jansen is the proof. The closer who didn’t.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kenley-jansen-is-too-busy-helping-the-dodgers-win-to-get-saves/
Chris Haynest @ChrisBHaynes 1h1 hour ago
For those interested, I’m told Kevin Durant was in on the Peyton Manning gymnaistic team roast at #ESPYS2017. KD played his part well.
i told my friend this morning that he was probably in on it. he’s going to, or already has, enough money, he has a ring, and should make it 2 next june. i couldn’t imagine that KD would react like that to a harmless joke.
Baseball educates it’s players.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/schooling-professional-athletes/533550/
If there’s one way in which Disqus doesn’t serve TWG members it’s that we’re such a prolifically posting group that we don’t remotely get to many great posts that simply go over the screenful-of-messages threshold too many times. TWG’ers are an intelligent, conversational, and thought-provoking group!
Yup
We’re sorry. 😉
David Forst is now licking his chops over prospective Sonny Gray haul. Gray has been pitching well the past month. Almost K per inning, low 3’s ERA, low BAA. He would like to show old man Beano what he can do. I have to imagine Dodgers are a candidate. A’s spent considerable time scouting their system prior to deadline trades last year and have likely continued to monitor target pieces.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/product-reviews/book-review-if-these-walls-could-talk-san-francisco-giants-by-chris-haft/
way to kill the mood…
(just kidding)
This is a post for the ages Greek. POTY?
Jonesing for good Giants baseball, I went into the waaay-back machine and cued up 2002 NLCS, Game 4, Cardinals at Giants. We win 4-3 on Benito Santiago’s clutch HR in bottom of the eighth. Bonds, Kent, JT Snow, Bell–we had a really good team.
I’ll always say that Kirk Reuter should have started Game 7 of the WS that year, not Livan.
Oh yeah! I remember Kuip’s call on the radio when Benito hit that HR.
Personally, I’d like to see Mr. Peabody and Sherman again. I think they called it the WABAC Machine, although I’m not sure of that.
Yes, it stood for Weird Abacus Beats A Computer. The weird abacus was always right and got them to their appointed date and nearby the historical figures they were to observe. Except their abacus spit out paper. Sorry … my fabrication machine just blew a fuse.
No, I’m talking about a segment that was on the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show with Mr Peabody and Sherman and the way back machine that relived famous moments in history.
I know but I took your spelling of WABAC and ran with it hoping you’d extend my ridiculous fabrication even farther.
I halfway thought that was what was happening, but I’m so depressed with baseball that my SOH is on shutdown.