by
Greek Giant
Tonight’s Game: Giants (27-47) Vs Braves (33-38) at Henry Aaron Stadium, 7:35 PM
Matt Cain (3-6, 4.99) Vs Jaime Garcia (2-5, 3.59)
It’s been a long, hard road trip. I predict Buster goes deep.
Five Questions
- How many at-bats will Aaron Hill get tonight?
- Who is the most feared hitter in the Braves line up since Freddie Freeman is out?
- Should the Giants start the rebuild right now?
- Will Kyle Crick make his debut tonight?
- Who has the best arm in the Giants infield?
Breckeroni says Win One Game In A Row (again)
Kelby played second in favor of Panik last night. Hill played third in place of Nunez last night.
KT to 3rd. JP back to 2nd.
Prob is KT muffed one at 3rd so Boch will prob sit him.
Panik is hitting about .375 this month, so should have started last night, and Kelby played 3rd Tuesday night, and is again tonight, so Bochy messed up playing Hill .
BB15 does not sit in an isolated room and make out the lineup cards. Other offensive minded coaches have pregame input. Coaches still go back to the hotel bar when on the road and so last nights lineup was probably made out by Bochy-Deck-BamBam-Wotus at the hotel bar.
Hill did not cost the Giants the game last night.
It is working great this season , the results speak for themselves .
Nobody predicted the spot they are in right now
Why are the Cubs 36-35? They have more talent than god.
Last year they had more luck than god. This year things are evening out.
He was a weak link, both in the field and at the plate. Not all on him; Crawford 0-5, Slater hitless, but Hill’s game hurt us.
For me, it comes down to who should face a rookie lefty: Panik or Hill. I think that’s an easy call.
I can’t put the loss on Hill when it was almost a come from behind victory. We are all grasping at straws right now. Crawford looked over matched. Belt had his batting eye used against him again last night. In the past three quarter lefties have made Panik look over matched. I don’t think Bochy wanted three over-matched hitters in the lineup.
Belt had a Triple and a walk.
Single Walk Rbi Strikeout Looking
Triple drove in Pence, I watched it !
I typed triple but it disappeared
Yes, I believe in minor blessings.
#1 1, #2 his replacement Matt Adams, shows how easy it is to replace a 1st Baseman, Braves got Adams for peanuts from Cardinals, and Adams makes peanuts, for all those that think another team will trade a lot for Belt who is owed about 70 million dollars if traded at dead line, they are nuts . #3 Yes they should but Bochy will not unless forced to by management . #4 Yes , because Cain will not last long in this game, no pressure .#5 Crawford .
Any Potter fans in (or near) LA might want to check this LA Phil announcement.
http://archive.email2.laphil.com/csb/Public/show/h92q9–ck5y0-4rcaz1f9
1) How many at-bats will Aaron Hill get tonight?
Pinch hits in the top of the 15th inning
2) Who is the most feared hitter in the Braves line up since Freddie Freeman is out?
It is still Matt Kemp
3) Should the Giants start the rebuild right now?
No – this year – a ODD year has been an anomaly
4) Will Kyle Crick make his debut tonight?
After last nights bullpen usage – you might see Krick in the 7th
5) Who has the best arm in the Giants infield?
For those of us who apparently don’t see pregame on the road and for the fact that ATT opens their gates after the Giants are finished taking BP at home – we don’t get to see what staff and looky-lou’s do – and apparently Brandon Belt as measured on some device has the best arm but from what I only know it would be the kid who was his HS QB – Brandon Crawford.
Just like the second half of last season was an anomaly, although it was quite a bit better than the first half of this one has been. I’m thinking that next season may be yet another anomaly.
Still that is WHAT it is.
They were 57-33 as of July 10th of last year during AS game break.
Then went 30- 42
Wild Card Win
Lose to Cubs in 4
Then came off season
Then came a decent Spring Training
Then came now.
Anomaly.
The entire game of baseball is a series of small and often improbable anomalies like a 5 ERA pitcher losing to a 3 ERA pitcher or a slap hitter hitting 2 HR in a game. The entire game of baseball is built on the anomaly.
Well stated!
I’m looking for a bit of reverse symmetry from last year.
1. One.
2. Adams
3, No.
4. Yes
5. Crawford
From Baggs, since I don’t think anyone else has listed it:
Maybe Cain. Definitely rain.
3B Tomlinson, 2B Panik, RF Pence, 1B Posey, LF Slater, SS Crawford, C Hundley, CF Gorkys, P Cain.
The bench is thus Span, Hill, Belt and in a technical sense, Nunez. I hope the rain holds off, so we see how KT does at leadoff. Bochy might think Pence is getting his eye back a little bit?
KT batted 2nd yesterday and was awful , I just do not get it .
Good one “technically Nunez” … fill in the blank this year. I think that is a manager’s call that others would not do; keeping someone up at half-speed to avoid losing them for one-week. Would have been a perfect week to have Jae MyGuy Hwang up for an MLB spin. Maybe a 40-man issue?
Let’s see what happens at ATT.
High point in a disastrous season: kyle schwarber sent down to the minors. I love it!
When I passed that news to my Mom the Cubs fan, she was ecstatic.
Don’t they all love the fat one?
Now I know why you love Kelby so much, Duffy must of been your favorite when he was a Giant,
i’ve been to high point. it’s in north carolina. furniture capital of the country..
Anyone who thinks the giants don’t have to rebuild is delusional. Unfortunately that include most of the fans and all of the management.
You Tel em, Aviv 🙂
So if they don’t rebuild they are delusional. What if 5 M say no rebuild and 5K say to rebuild. Will the new Government Health Care cover those that will need mental health care?
Twisted Sister Analogy: Wells Fargo was robbed six times last week. All six times the robbers were Black. Thus – All Bank Robbers are black.
#6 Will Kelby get his first XBH of the year?
#7 Buster Baseball had a .256 ISO in May and has .164 ISO so far in June. Will this downhill trend continue as his legs grow wearier thru the season?
#8 Who will lead the blog in comments tonight?
Depends if TO has to work or not
#8, who cares.
that’s #9, pal.
1) For everyone’s sake, let’s hope zero.
2) Matt Adams. Kemp a close second. Also need to be careful with veterans Markakis and Phillips.
3) Yes, by jettisoning the declining veterans like Hill, Gorkys, Gearrin, and Kontos. Either Dyson or Morris. Trade or DFA Gillaspie.
4) I hope so, but I think Bochy holds him back to debut at home.
5) Still Crawford. Nunez close second.
Sniff, it is actually Belt
Belt hurt his arm that’s why he stopped pitching in the first place .
He still has a cannon for an arm.
I think Crawford’s arm is stronger .
He definitely gets to show it off more. I love his arm BTW.
Nope – he hurt his arm throwing JUNK and other slider type stuff playing for Augie at Texas and then completely healed. But as far as now – his arm is strong enough to play the OF and throw a four seamer flat footed from the warning track into his cutoff man.
But Crawford does have a HOSE. But nobody had what Dunston once had. Those sitting behind first base at Wrigley would never take their seats until between inning groundballs were finished.
Not Nunny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbFQ_ca16b4
Remnants of tropical storm Cindy are pounding the southeast, especially here in Atlanta. We had two tornado warnings two hours ago, one of them passing within two miles of our home. It gets real scary when they call out the main streets in your neighborhood. All passed and we’re OK, but there are major storms all around us. Hope we get baseball tonight.
Looking marginal on my weather app.
Move to California where we can act fat, dumb and happy while we wait for the next Earthquake.
I definitely don’t feel happy enough.
Yes, “painful” seems to fit this season for me. Hard to watch and hard to think of what each person in the SFG organization is going through this year.
I am about 150 miles up 20 from you. Skys just parted to sunshine around Augusta
MLB is on pace to shatter the record for most HRs in a season, set in 2000, during the steroid era. This makes me think that some kind of PED breakthrough has taken place; either a new substance is being used or a new way of beating the testing has been discovered. The Giants, however, appear to be above suspicion.
Some say it’s the ball this year.
Ball with flatter seams, more launch angle built into swings geared for fences with more K’s, and powerful young men with crazy bat speed like Cody Bellinger and Aaron Judge. And maybe there is some juice here and there.
There is a lot of advancement in training for athletes. New ideas backed by science that are not drug dependent. One funny one is hyperthermic-conditioning or basically sitting in a sunua. I am sure there are those taking short cuts but there are so many legal ways to pack on muscle why risk it these days.
It’s the ball. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/it-looks-like-the-baseball-is-behind-mlbs-power-surge/
What that article exposes is the fallacy of assuming that advanced “stats” are definitive measures of what they purport to measure. The article doesn’t prove anything about the cause of the rise in HRs, it only wraps the author’s opinion in pseudo-scientific numbers. At one point, he argues that the fact that his model didn’t accurately predict the numbers of hone runs is proof that something must have changed with the ball, as opposed to the possibility that the problem could be the quality of his model.
538 tends to be wrong, change their mind late to be right, and then explain why they were right
Not really. When they make an error, they understand it, and refine the hypothesis they’re working with. That’s actually one of the differences between science and soothsaying.
Give me soothsaying every time.
This has a lot more information, and addresses the issue historically. Fun read.
https://theringer.com/2017-mlb-home-run-spike-juiced-ball-testing-reveal-155cd21108bc
Actually it sort of proves the ball is the only credible explanation left.
Tom Verducci on with Rod Brooks and Frat Boy today, talking about the state of baseball and decline of the Giants. Not bad.
http://www.knbr.com/fitz-brooks-podcast/
you up for a synopsis ?
That sounds painful.
I expect more maturity from you, mister.
Gloves needed?
Baseball has entered an era of power bats, power arms with swing and miss stuff, and athleticism, and the Giants are lacking all three. His opinion is that the formula the Giants used during their winning years plays better during the post season than the regular season.
Gracias. No arguments here.
Fitz is feeling your love
Thanks. Should be interesting to watch the trend. No doubt the landscape shifted to power, but I think that was happening earlier than he said, and the Giants were so good at “small ball” that they prevailed. They no longer are. Part – or much – of that, in my opinion, is a fading pitching staff overall. And, they did have more power. Posey’s numbers are down. Pence is way down. Pablo is gone. CF and LF are void.
Plus, this bullpen of patchwork arms without real clear earned roles is a mess.
I like what Marge has done though.
Absolutely.
I honestly wonder if Bum will be the same. Not because of the bike spill, but because of the overuse in prior years. This break could be a huge blessing.
Yes, besides keeping some pitches off his arm, it turned out Blach is pretty good. Of course, that is assuming Bum’s shoulder gets back to normal. I have no poop on that situation.
Use Matthew’s
eeew!
According to the article TO linked, you can ride a bike really fast if you….oh, never mind
Plus, he’ll be really pissed.
As if the baseball news wasn’t depressing enough, now folks in the Southeast have to contend with floating mounds/broods of fire ants.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/06/22/a-terrifying-threat-from-tropical-storm-cindy-floating-masses-of-deadly-fire-ants/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_fireants-315pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Wow – I hate fire ants. They seem to be on the rise every year. They love it in the garden. And they raise itchy welts.
There’s a ton of things we in California don’t have to deal with that others do.
Fire ants, June bugs, tornados, hurricanes, mosquitos, horrible humidity…
Little bit of Karma here for the guy on the bike http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4629134/Biker-kicks-car-causes-scary-pile-LA-freeway.html
My former Guy Be A Genie and a misplayed ISTP HR
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/11493214/v1524772783/must-c-clips-gallos-first-insidethepark-home-run/?query=Must%2BC#
Is Adam Silver Sheldon Cooper’s real father?
Better question is what date Aaron Hill will no longer be a Giant?
Second question is, among the players on the 25 man roster (including Strickland) which one would you most like to be rid of?
Third Question, which bullpen pitcher (40 man roster) would you most like to DFA today?
Aaron Hill- June 29
Aaron Hill
Bryan Morris (redundant)
WTF are you talking about?
Nevermind
Am I to take it that you disagree?
No, I just don’t read any posts but yours, so I was in the dark.
Final Question: Which poster of TWG would you most like to DFA? Don’t answer publicly–its a though problem. (And I’m excluded)
Though problem?
thought
I can think of more though problems than thought problems.
Something about extrapolation I find enjoyable.
You don’t jive with Morris? He has some Magic Wandoo and is friends with Matty Mo.
Another RH guy…Dyson should stick, Morris can go. Gearrin and Kontos are Blog whipping boys, but bring different stuff, whereas Dyson and Morris are too similar. Just my view
Does anyone have the poop on what time the game might come up?
I have the poop. No idea on game time, though
I got nothin’ by way of a response!
You’ll need a change before it starts.
TMI
Me too!
half hour late. Mas o menos
t/y.
DBacks take the series in Denver & move ahead of Rox – pushing them to 3rd in tight cluster at the top. Goldie with 18th HR and 4 ribeyes (64).
Zack Godley has been a godsend out of DBack farm. 10th round pick in 2013 that I saw defeat the San Jose Giants a few years ago. Yes, he pitched well that day but did not look like top prospect material, fastball topping out at 92 in on a warm Visalia evening, but certainly looked like a guy with command and pitchability. He is 3-1 with 2.53 for the DBacks this year.
This has been your Sand Snakes report.
Per Denver beat…..The Rockies’ relievers have a horrendous 9.23 earned run average and a troubling 1.93 WHIP, while surrendering 12 home runs, during the past 10 games.
A problem unique to Denver is that, as seasons move along, the pitchers fade. It’s been avoided about once in their history. I like this Rockied team, but I’m not convinced they will stick around the race
Wow… Now that the Giants have numbed my rooting interest nerve, the battle between AZ, COL and LA is shaping up to be pretty epic. Rox head to LA now, yes?
You’ll need a routing canal.
https://i.imgur.com/hve16gP.png
1) So what east coast time do they cancel the game so the Giants can fly home to get ready for the Mets?
2) if you are Brian Sabbean, do you punish the team by making them take a bus home instead of flying?
3) Do the Giants put their tail between their legs and mail it in if this game is played tonight? Or do they pull themselves up from the gutter and fight?
4) Did one of the reporters in Bochys presser the other night really let one rip? Or was it just a leather chair someone scooted over in?
5) Should the Giants send Blach home now so he can get rested for a couple more hours before tomorrow night? Or has he already flown back to SF?
1) With this team’s luck, the game will go extra innings again
2) Put them on United so Aaron Hill can get dragged off the plane kicking and screaming
3) Cage match all the way
4) Jim Tomsula was lurking in the crowd
5) Send him home early along with Belt
They should have sent Blach home already. It’s pretty common practice.
Question 6: Should we unleash Strickland on the Braves for scheduling a night game with the inevitable rain delay on a getaway day when the Giants have to fly cross country?
Maybe what is being called “poop doping” is behind the home run surge? Doesn’t seem too disgusting. You just take someone else’s feces and transfer it into your own digestive system, going through the back door.
http://deadspin.com/the-next-big-thing-in-cycling-could-be-poop-doping-1796302781
OK, that just brings up too many hypotheticals to deal with.
BALCO is all over this. The Cream and the Brown.
Excuse me while i finish barfing. Thats not real–I hope
As Jesus Alou is quoted in Ball Four, “eeez reeeeeel!!!!”
No way
Well, it’s making the rounds if quite a few sports sites
Fake news– alternative facts. Who are you going to believe, my common sense or those snakes at the Chicago Tribune? Didnt they famously write that Dewey beat Truman? I rest my case
The Chicago Tribune also wrote about it:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/ct-cyclists-poop-doping-20170620-story.html
Are the transplanted feces donated or purchased? There’s the real story. Who is getting what for their shit?
The Dodgers have been eating shit for years– thats not news
Eating your own is probably not illegal.
This may be their 5th division win in a row.
Then the article is correct!
Real, it appears.
Alex is really good on Happy Hour, and he’s being pretty honest about poor performing veterans
What’s Happy Hour?
On NBCSN during the rain delay.
Noticed that. And at least he’s not getting sloppy drunk and mushy.
I could never see Amy G on happy hour. Something wouldn’t seem right about that. Getting soused with Ratto? Please Amy G. Don’t do it.
Condolences to De’Aaron Fox. Welcome to Sacramento
9 pm estimated start time — In the air by 2 if they are lucky- land SFO at 7 am eastern if they are lucky — in bed by 530 am PDT if they are lucky. This is a total sham and the Braves and MLB should be embarassed
Neither team needs this game for contention, so it should have been banged yesterday and the Giants home by now!
Giants only trip to ATL this year. MLB doesn’t blow off games this early in the season. Just gotta soldier through. Buck up, Giants!
I’m hearing a poor rendition of the Anthem.
Hitters hitting .358 off Cain’s “fastball” Ouch
It should be renamed “fastesthecanball”
Higher than 358 now. Can we go home now?
The Cindy monsoon can commence now!
I was just pondering the earlier post from this morning when Bapah asked what and when it went wrong…and people gave thoughts. Some were based on a mentality in the clubhouse. Though that may be in a bad place, I think it’s a chicken/egg question.
Much more important, in my eyes: ask yourself this question- name the spots out of the 25 that were upgraded compared to downgraded or playing worse.
I can think of one insignificant upgrade: backup catcher.
Ponder this. What was the real impact Tim Flannerys departure had? And why did he go? And do good teams have a coach like Flann somewhere on their staff? Lots to ponder there.
I think Hundley has been a serviceable upgrade, but given the woes of the big picture, definitely seems like an insignificant upgrade. In other words, lost amongst the sea of debris.
Could Christian Ponder pitch for the Giants?
I agree. A lot. I’ve been harping on the fact that Flann had the grapefruits to tell Bochy when he was wrong. I tweeted him that last season and he answered “yup”. I think it’s become a complacent, Yes-Man staff.
AND , the players aren’t performing
And, the players aren’t hearing or listening.
They have epic direct deposit, however
Thinking the loss of the third base coach had some significant impact is more of a stretch than there is no Santa Claus Duffy trade theory.
His influence with Bochy’s decisions, Turbo. Think about it
Bochy’s managerial decisions haven’t changed noticeably since Flannery left, and they got off to a fine start last season without him.
Yes they have…you have posted about it considerably. Think of last half of last year.
And, I know you are aware of their relationship, and how Flan would stand up to him and challenge him. Those things matter. Think about the Ex-Mrs. Oracle and the challenges, disagreements, and…compromise?
A players coach. Like it or not, believe it or not, at times and at times not, players need a sounding board, or if you will, a coach in their corner.
It’s pretty simple. Declining talent combined with not enough talent.
Oh dear.
Matt Cain has been a great Giant. He has given great performances, and helped lead the team to 3 titles. He gave this team his right arm. And that arm is done. There is nothing left. It’s not his fault. But, it’s the reality.
I hope they both do the right thing pretty soon. It’s like listening to Steven Tyler try to sing the end of “Dream On”… it makes you cringe. I love Matt Cain for all he did for this fan. Now, I literally feel bad for him for the way this is going.
I’m still thinking of going tomorrow night and I have my eyes on two seats that are currently going for $75 each on StubHub. I’d like the market to go down by tomorrow. Thank you for the help, Matt Cain.
Posey’s home run trots appear to be more dangerous than any other part of his game lately
Wish Crawford would of ran that out with flames coming outta his ass. Might of been safe.
USA Today reports that the Nats are eyeing– among others– to acquire Melancon
Gitterdone!
To God’s ears
Awful AB, Hundley. IBB the #8 guy, tying run dies at second.
Sorry for my earlier “upgrade” comment
Cainer bails him out
I think he still is, but sadly also beginning to fade.
How about that
Matt Cain!!
Ain’t that something.
Pitchers Who Rake are nice to have! 🙂
Too bad we’re short on hitters who rake
True dat!
We dont even have gardeners who rake
136 ain’t exactly raking
Timing, Cricket Boy!
Whatever, he’ll cough it up this inn. He better rake
Well, there’s that, I guess
Sorry about the Ball pick. I guess TO didn’t have Magic’s cell number to remind him of his guarantee
Well, Efrain loves it, so it has to be a good one. Yeah, right
You’ll see.
I’m not sold on him at all yet. I watched Fox destroy him, so that better have been a kid protecting himself against injury, but that was a college kid…wait until NBA guys get a matchup chance
He’s going to be fine. Don’t listen to TO who knows nothing about college basketball. At the very least it’s a win over having Russell at PG. Ball is not a ball hog and will get the ball to whomever the Laker draft or sign to shoot. He just has that knack to make players around him better.
I suggest you do some research, which TO has not, just talks out of his ass.
I actually have quite a bit and I have a ton of buddies who are die hard Lakers fans and have the same opinion as me. We’ll have to wait and see though
Oh and UCLA alums that have season tics.
Subpar athleticism, awkward shot that won’t be easy to get off easily against NBA-caliber athletes, can’t penetrate, put forth zero effort on defense and quit in the biggest game he ever played.
There you go talking out of your butt again. What the hell so you want him to do.
He’s a fine enough athlete that is used to pushing the pace all game long like a Curry, who is not the greatest athlete himself. He’s not near the athlete that a Kyrie is but then again a point guard doesn’t need to be.
He made all his teammates better, with two getting drafted today and two others invited to the combine. Why? The entire team once Ball showed up became more efficient. He knows how to find people. He won’t need to score on the Lakers, much how Kidd was not a big scorer early in his career.
Go talk about shit you know before popping off. Now you just sound uninformed and dumb.
Way to run that down Gorkys. Atta babe.
Not to upset TO, but Gorkys is a better CF than Span. Muuuuch better first step, much quicker follow up steps, too
I think Gorkys best position is CF, but he’s OK in left or right. Andres Torres was like that.
Bat or glove, who you choose for the stretch drive?
A team choosing between the two doesn’t need to worry about any stretch drive.
What is this L thing. I think its called a lead?
If this lasts more than 4 hours, I’m calling my doc
Enjoy it. If it lasts more than 4 hours, I’m calling CNN. Enjoy
The one with the chicken beaks and feathers?
Caine may not be the same pitcher, but he can still hit.
Extra base power, did you notice KT, by the way like usual all 5 runs driven in by Extra base hit .
Update all 7 runs driven in by Extra base hits .
Good actor, too
And a Mutiny
Great AB Joe. He needs to play more vs LHP
Wow is right. Camargo? Who’s this guy?
Has Kuiper checked out? He’s making more and more of this mental errors.
Gorkys makes that catch.
The Braves must be kicking themselves that they don’t have him.
Atta babe Slater!!!!
This guy can hit some
Oppo power.
Looking more big league every day
Yep. He’s pretty good for a guy making the league minimum.
Prorated league minimum , so less .
That pitch to Buster was in Latos land, and he Bashed it just the same! 🙂
Crawford ain’t right. WTH
That’s a run we should have scored, Craw and Hundley.
Posey the only big dollar guy carrying this team. Slater is the only league minimum dollar guy working with Posey at carrying this team.
Get Affeldt ready. We need this one for a Happy Flight.
Or Petit.
bare handed? damn
Vogey is a great dude and a good looking guy, but he seriously outkicked the coverage
Markakis would have made a good Giant. Good ballplayer ⚾
Markakis is super expensive Gregor Blanco
Good hitter that Slater
Gotta hit the cutoff man Slater. That can’t happen.
Repeat: wet ball
Needs to pull down on that ball ⚾
The ol’ wet ball trick
WTF kinda throw was that?
Raining
no excuse. That was 40 rows up if the screen was not there.
Hell of a catch Gork!
Hope he’s ok
MyGuy!!!! Gave his hammy for the out
I guarantee Gorky’s gets some wet loving from Matthew on this one.
Pass the towel
Gorkys! Sweet.
How is that a great catch?
Span probably makes it also, I hear ya.
and pagan as well
Nope. A wall was involved.
Most CF’s… not Span
I can’t wait for him to win you over. Do you have a shitload of balloons tied to your house?
He drifted back and caught the ball. He didn’t even have to sprint after it. If he’d gotten back more quickly, he could’ve found the wall first and not have to bang into it.
You are the best. Seriously.
You really think that was a great catch?
Find where I said it was. It was good. A MLB CF should catch that. Span isn’t. Pagan wasn’t. Glad GH did
I’ll agree with that. Good catch. The kind of catch big leaguers are supposed to make.
That’s the closest thing to a Buster Hug I’ve ever gotten from you*
(* non political division)
You guys should meet for a beer and rave over Drumpf.
He’s dead right on this one. Any decent CF makes that one. Enciarte would have made that look easy
I like chatting with him about Gorkys
Are you bored tonight, Matthew?
Bored this season
True dat
But then, we’re forced to ask, at what?
Wind is blowing, live yard, ball carrying, slick turf–yeah, that was a can of corn.
Who wants Gorkys back? I think I’m with Matthew on him.
MyOBPGuy!!!!
Even Dave called it a “great catch”… just for the Up guy
Never mind.
Gorkys is finally playing with an edge. I like this version of Gork
….I take that back
Another run we leave on the bases. Gorkys, if you’re running there you better be damn sure you’ll be safe.
Did anyone actually think that this lead was safe with Cain pitching?
Hey, I’m the one that wanted Affeldt to get ready last inning
Cain is going to fast surpass Moore in the ERA dept unless he already has.
About to.cough it up
Gregor Blanco putting up a 102 wRC+ for AZ right now. Love that guy.
This game is following the script of the Moooooooooose Pirates
As the Giants chase the Phillies in the reverse standings, Cain is in contention for reverse team MVP.
That should be Cain’s last inning.
Bruce LOVES to give “his” guys a chance for the W…that means 5 full. It’s one of those Bruce Brain Tic’s we’re all so familiar with
Yup one of his philosophies that are outdated
Let’s score a bunch and make it an easy decision.
Should being the operative word.
Joe Joe bashin’! 🙂
You go, Joe!
that’s my guy.JP12
why can’t they hit like this every game? this would be a fun season
not to rain on buster’s big game, but shouldn’t his 2 doubles have been HR’s? warning track power?
Wet báll?😓💦
Tired legs a factor as well, I think.
Are you channeling your inner PJ?
me. no i’m slappy, and i smoke some herb. PJ doesn’t care for my kind
Im sure that the Giants Bullpen is more than capable of holding this lead
Joe Panik can hit vs Lefties, what a shock to you and Bochy .
Damn, dude. You certainly keep your blog Rolodex updated
I thought you were busy
Gorkys-esque
Crawford just doesn’t seem to be himself.
Kemp now has the range of Greg Luzinski.
1980 NLCS, 0-0 tie In the 10th, man on third, I was like “hit it to The Bull, he can’t throw!” I got my wish: medium fly ball to LF, and he threw it into the Phillies dugout, Astros win! 🙂
At least one man more run left out there. We’re going to need more…
And today is a reminder why Buster should play first base. They guy was hitting .417 heading into todays game as a first baseman and .318 as a catcher this year. He has 1/3rd of his RBI’s for the year while playing first in 1/5th the AB’s. This goes with a .344 career batting average playing first base vs a .300 average as a catcher.
I will also go as far as stating with Belt starting the Giants are a .500 team for Belts career. Without Belt starting, the team is a .540 winning percentage.
Do you see a trend in the stats above? Your stud first baseman carries the team and hits far better creating more productivity and scoring and winning
Maybe Belt should catch?
Belt has one more WORLD SERIES championship ring than the Cubs, so he must be doing something right.
It would help if you could counter and explain why the stats over 6 + years shows that the team plays better with Belt gone. It sure looks like having a stud hitter has a bunch to do with it and not a dufus who Ks every 4 at bats.
Your post was so fraught with your troll hatred, I decided to counter with snark. Deal with it.
Part of it is that Posey has much better career numbers against LHP, and Belt more often sits against LHP.
I heard that argument a year or 2 ago. Back then Posey playing first was not a matter of lefty righty but rather day game after night games . He was inserted in the order in order to keep his bat in the lineup. Thus the R/L ratio was close to even from when I looked. But to the point Posey hits lefties for his career at .329 which is still 15 points below how he hits when playing first if you presumed all at bats were against lefties which is not even close to the truth.
Comon Matty. Five and Dive
Looks like Four and Duck
Four and let them score
This is why you don’t leave him in Bochy. SMH. I saw that coming
That was certainly quick.
“gotta give him a chance to win the game”
That is. cirrect
He was joking.
Everyone on the planet saw it coming
Coors Field East
Someone said that last night and I thought not really, but it was raining all night and soft contact was carrying well.
I don’t think it’s CFE, but I do think it’s a hot yard.
Like the bullpen is so reliable
Of course not when they’re always inheriting runners when they come in
You wanted to take him out before there were baserunners– and besides strand runners is supposedto do
We’ve reached the Lefty Moment of the game…where is she? It would be epic
Now it’s too late to take him out.
But of course Bochy goes to the bullpen now
They like a challenge.
more important for mellon head to let cain get a W, than win the fkn game. what an ass
No one can WHIP it like Cain and Devo
No offense, but DEVO sucks
Where is that Beede kid? Getting closer by the day
Struggling in Sacto, unfortunately! 🙁
And not doing all that well.
That is what his post said .
But that Bum kid is almost ready .
Gregorio will be up before Beede. He is on 40 man roster, Beede is not.
Gregorio is having a much better season than Beede, especially recently. Beede gave up 5 HR in a recent start.
http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=t105&player_id=593340#/career/R/pitching/2017/ALL
http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=t105&player_id=595881#/career/R/pitching/2017/ALL
As PJ was suggesting the other day, runs held stats is misleading due to where they are and how many outs, well 0 outs or 2 outs does not matter here.
Please stop this infernal chant!!
At least we have 12 outs to score a few more runs.
LOL at this bull pen.
When you are regularly bringing in Bryan Morris and George Kontos in high leverage situations it says a LOT about the state of your team.
Well, at least this will lead to Morris DFA. Hopefully not the only one in the bullpen.
Kontos and Gearrin need to go with him.
Yep.
How about the Manager leaving in the starter to get a Win , when he is leaking oil, costing his team the game, he gets a Pass .
I’m surprised you’re not mad he took him out!
instant replay…….
Go and get Neftali Feliz!
Cain up to 5.54, Morris up to 6.00.
His ending ERA. But he beat the expectation and almost made it out of June. Almost.
At least we’re gonna get to see Crick
I decided to take my dogs for a walk and I come back and a 5-3 Giants lead is now 11-6 Braves??? WTF happened? Sarcasm can’t even come close to describing how a feel.
Short walk, I take it!!
20 minutes or so. Lot can happen in a baseball game in 20 f****** minutes.
10 of those were commercials!
Yikes.
Priorities, learn yours, you were good luck, I will never forgive you , ha, ha .
But on the other hand, I saved myself a tad bit of anxiety by not watching unmatched futility. It was bound to happen.
The Giants are no longer dog friendly
Where are all the Cain apologists? He needs to go away at the end of the season. Morris looks even worse.
End of the season? He needs one of those face saving Lincecum/Zito honorary no-injury DL stints.
Welcome to the bigs, Kyle Crick. Did you bring the fire extinguisher?
Well at least Morris can catch the flight home to pick up his stuff. He will be gone tomorrow.
I love when they release players that were good enough a day before to be in a close game
See e.g. Neil Ramirez
Happens a lot
Welcome Mr. Crick
This season was over several weeks ago and was going to end poorly. But, man, they have shifted into 6th gear with their losing efforts. I believe this 6-18 in their last 24 games. That’s nearly a month of baseball with SIX wins.
Giving a whole new meaning to June Swoon.
Where is the fight? The teeth? The nasty SOBs?
Poor kid.
Fastball right down the pipe.
The kid should never have to make his debut with 2 men on base.
I agree. Totally ridiculous.
What difference does it make?
Confidence is everything with young players. When you introduce young players (or any player for that matter) into a high-leverage situation, they press themselves and are not able to perform up to their capabilities. That’s basic knowledge for a manager.
You want Crick to start out his career on an encouraging note.
Bochy was trying to wait, but Morris refused to get the last out. If Crick can’t handle making his debut with someone on base, he certainly doesn’t have what it takes to stick.
I mean, the game was 12-6. If Bochy waited that long for Morris to get the last out, Bochy should’ve just stuck with him. What difference does it make at that point?
Arroyo was confident
Then he lost his confidence as he went through a slump. Being on a losing club doesn’t help either. Arroyo will be fine.
What’s so bad about throwing a pitch out of the strike zone when the count is 0-2?
Nothing
Wasting a 0-2 pitch seems to be a lost art!
It’s really hard to hit and really really hard to put up big numbers in one inning … But somehow the Giants make it relatively easy. They could throw literal batting practice pitchers andhow fewer blowout innings.
Bullpen with its usual stellar performance.
Crick with a big league ERA 0.00
Crick sort of looks like Joe Panik.
10 times redder than him. Maybe it was the adrenaline
What a disaster this season is. Just utter dumpster fire.
27-48 after this game. WOW!!! How is no one fired yet?
Marrero was fired.
It’s a good question.
It’s a mystery.
How do you fire players with guaranteed contacts who won’t or can’t play the game right? The GM blew it but he doesn’t deserve this level of professional incompetence on thefield
You fire the manager or pitching coach, or hitting coach. Someone should take the fall for this mess. Furthermore, you DFA the dead weight and option the unproductive youngsters. You don’t stand pat.
Yeah. Roberto Kelly and Billy Hayes were the fall guys last year.
How many successful teams fire any of those people?
Cardinals fired their hitting coach earlier this year. Pitching coaches have been fired mid-season. It happens, but the Giants would never do that mid-season.
No, we limp through to what will probably be a last place finish, then hope the Giants begin a reset that starts at the top. The entire organization needs to be analyzed and substantial changes made.
I think the Cardinals just fired their third base coach, not their hitting coach. And then laughably called it a “major shake up”.
These fences need to go back … But they NEVER do that for some reason. Always In …in ..in … And the game gets cheaper. Just a side whine
Motte is filthy.
No, we’re just making him look that way.
What he meant is that he needs a bath.
So this new Ford commercial with Bumgarner about “what he does on his day off is anyone’s guess” and then you see the a dirt bike and someone riding it etc…pisses me off. Do they really think the fans will like this? Ok the Non-Giants fans will think it’s funny. Was he forced to do this? I hate it.
Yes, because all athletes who do spots are forced, sometimes threatened physically, if they don’t do a spot.
My suggestion, instead of complaining about something so mundane, is just switch the channel. Or tape games and when you watch them bypass the commercials.
Wow so you are in charge of deciding what one can complain about now? I still hate it. Seeing that we all complain on this blog about pretty much everything I will do so as well. If you find it to be mundane or not.
I hate all commercials. Most are dumbed down to persuade you to by dumb products.
That’s a 2 year old commercial.
I see. So they dug it out again. How convenient. I don’t remember it. But I don’t have a good memory for that.
Unfortunately, I do.
Anybody up on who the Kings drafted tonight?
Fox
Fox … poor kid goes to a lousy team and franchise.
I like Bryce Harper and I liked that Bryce Harper commercial.
Sabes really has to ask himself honestly which players he does not expect any help from next season and release them now. Get Ryder Jones here. Stay with Crick. Get Arroyo back here. Let these guys get their feet wet. Slater is a no brainer.
Keep Posey Craw Panik Nunez Blach and Smarge. Wouldn’t surprise me if Bum doesn’t want to stay here. Crawford needs to get right. Time to slam the door. Lose with guys that can help you next season. Losing effs with your head.
Why would you keep Nunez? He’s going to be a free agent.
He wants to stay in SF. Plays hard. But, probably doesn’t matter at this point.
You sign him only if Bochy quits. No use for a speed guy otherwise
He plays the same position as Arroyo.
True. I like Nuñez but I guess his trade value is greater than the current stock of the team.
In recent days Nunez has said he would like to stay with Giants and he is OK with the role as a “super” sub.
Not if Bochy is manager. He would play him everyday.
My opinion is that it is past time for Bochy to retire.
A new manager would wake up this team and maybe get back to winning with a deeper and younger team.
I have come to the position that Bochy is at the heart of the malaise.
I like the speed and aggressiveness of Nunez, versatility too.
The salary might be to steep and what could be received in 2017 in trade may over ride Nunez staying with team.
No brainer. Trade Cueto note because his valuecan only go down with an injury and fewer starts the new team will get
Get rid of Nunez. He’s blocking Arroyo.
Jordan Bell – future star?
Versatile player, good defender. Could probably defend all 5 positions. Perfect system fit.
Steve Kerr’s type of player
Slater looks pretty smooth in CF.
Nice debut for Crick. Didn’t look overpowering, but threw strikes.
Keep him here now. No need to yo-yo him. When was the last time we had a reliever that didn’t walk a batter?
What’s so happy about happy hour when the Giants are getting the backside of their collective asses chewed off.
Hey, Ratto is one of the hosts. What could possibly be happy about that?
Exactly.
When Belt gets traded to another team. He’s going to be a monster. 27 home runs first year after trade.
In April.
27?HR is your definition of a monster? That’s a pretty low bar there.
Tomlinson with some almost warning track power.
We score 8 runs and going to lose!
9 runs. With three outs left. Watch this crap game go into extras.
When Atlanta visits San Francisco next, the Giants need to make sure it’s a night game for the Braves on getaway day
With a rain delay
Does Bruce seem to be brooding? Is Bochy becoming a brooder? WTF. Say it ain’t so Joe.
Giants inching closer, so we go to Gas Can Kontos.
Yet again, has Kuiper checked out? These are some obvious errors
Nice outing, George.
Com’on BB9.
I hope Melancon is up and throwing.
Or throwing up
He already did that. So now he’s up, means there is hope.
We’re goin’ extras!! You watch!!!
Great baserunning by Belt
Perfect way to play it
Com’on Joe Panik.
That was off the plate.
That was ball 4
That’s Hunter.
****** ******** *******!
That was ’27 Yankees v ’75 Reds right there
Game was a lot closer than the score.
On the NBCSBA crawl, it says a “report” has Cueto opting out of his contract. Anyone have a link?
Pure speculation, he has 3 to 4 months to decide, if he sucks he opts in, if he gets hurt he opts in. if he is great he opts out .
What if he’s pretty good?
But if he wants out now, he can be planting the seed to get traded by showing the team he will not be around by opting out.
He would be stupid to opt out if he got hurt are was getting crushed, he was actually looking for a new contract with the Giants in this report by Jon Heyman, this is about Money, nothing about the Giants .
He could use the threat of opt out to foster the trade, after the trade, he does not have to opt out if it is a destination he wants.
No, he was planning to opt out, to make more money, that’s why he put it in his contract in the first place, he still hopes to opt out, because he thinks he will pitch well the rest of the year, it is all about Money not about wanting to get traded, you just think it is .
Here’s the article about this situation but basically it provides speculation with no clear-cut answer:
WHY YOU SHOULDN’T FREAK OUT IN JUNE ABOUT CUETO’S OPT-OUT
By Alex Pavlovic June 22, 2017 3:58 PM
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/why-you-shouldnt-freak-out-june-about-cuetos-opt-out
The game was not boring.
Probably could have won if had one of several starters at AAA start instead of Cain.
I skipped the game to go see Wonder Woman instead. Looks like I made the right choice. Sorry to everyone who suffered through this game :-/
Hey maybe a red-eye flight will be just what the boys need!
Dang it. This one hurts. Does Craw look right? Starting to wonder. His body language doesn’t seem right.
The strikeout where he swung and missed three pitches had me scratching my head. Looked like something other than just a “bad” at-bat.
I missed the game but was astonished by the score yet pleased that Crick gave 2.1 innings of run-less relief. I hope his arrival is followed by an unending string of tomorrows wearing a G’s uniform. Matt Cain’s days as a starter may be down to one more. When he’s “on” he’s 5.x innings … max. Another starter should be brought up.
Gregorio is ready for his chance.
Typical of this year, Crick’s first batter got a hit that drove in the 12th run. But I’m glad he settled down after that!
Seven straight batters after that hit (which one certainly did NOT know would be the winning hit) is a pretty impressive WHIP!
You not have seen the game, but you didnt miss the game there’s a difference. I watched it but wished I hadnt.
That has to be it for Cain. Please, no more.
Surgery on a pitching arm is always a huge risk. Some remarkable stories have been written by guys like Tommy John but this is the usual result. I agree with you that Cain’s time is likely over.
Probably why, even though Cain and the Giants knew about the elbow when he was drafted out of high school, they didnt do the surgery until they absolutely had to so many years later.
Wow. Someone beating the crap out of the clubhouse? Maybe a locker being pummeled?
Yeah Bochy was not too pleased with hearing that.
What are you talking about?
They were interviewing Bochy and it sounded like someone was taking a sledgehammer to a locker. Bochy’s asked what the hell is going on over there…or some such thing
.
Thanks for the explanation.
Maybe Posey and Belt duking it out? j/k
If you watched Bochys post game presser, you’d a heard some pummeling and banging. And a comment from Bochy, wasn’t too pleased hearing that. Somebody was doing some damage. I know that sound. It’s about damn time somebody gets fired up.
There’s always banging noises from clubhouse assistants trying to get mud off of shoes, but this sounds like something more intense!
I have two questions…1) why is Cain still starting for the Giants and 2) why does Johnson close instead of Vizcaino for the Braves? I’ll take my answers off the air.
1) my guess is he’s being paid some handsome dollars and like anybody, Giants are slap crazy stingy to part with that kind of money.
2) can’t really speak for the Braves, but who knows what goes on inside their clubhouse.
True. I’m fine with Cain pitching out the contract but maybe out of the pen. He’s odd man out when Bum comes back in any event.
You heard all that banging in the clubhouse during Bochys presser, Right?
Yep. Wonder if we’ll dvee find out who was going off.
Yeah. That was weird. I thought Bochy was going to say ‘excuse me gentlemen’ and get up a leave to see what was going on. He knew. I think it caught him off guard, but once he figured it out, he knew what it was.
As Bill Walsh once said about Steve DeBerg, “He’s just good enough to lose.” Same goes for the Giants. How many comebacks did they make on this road trip? Yet they went 1-7. : (
Tonight I went to see “A Little Night Music” by Stephen Sondheim. When I turned off my phone the Giants were leading 5-3. At intermission I check again and the Braves had scored 12. One of the main songs of this play is “Send in the Clowns” which is performed after intermission. How fitting for the Giants this year.
Keep Cain in there. Helping them secure a top 2 draft pick. At least Crick and the offense showed up.
& BB9 continues the Break 20 pace, increasing that marketability.by degrees.
Anybody up for going to the airport to welcome back the team?
Taking up on crawfish joe’s comment, i think that the departure of flannery may well have had a huge impact on the team. To be clear, unlike many people on this blog, i have no problem with bochy’s tactical abilities. Given a sound general strategic plan, his decisions over the course of a game are generally pretty good. The problem is he has zero strategic sense.
How about that the pkayers arent producing? And also how would Flannery’s departure explain that at the ASB last year the Giants had the best record in baeeball?
Bochy has made some questionable lineup and pitching decisions, but yeah–the players are the ones not producing. Something changed after the ASB last year, as a very good team suddenly began to play uninspired sub .500 baseball. That malaise rolled into 2017 and got even worse.
Who’s to blame? Everyone. Bad front office management, bad managing, bad player performance. An entire season down the drain.
Rivercats and SJ Giants are in town and I appear on the verge of missing them again – wheel sea what the weekend brings. It would be nice to scout Andrew Suarez and Matt Krook, but looks like I missed them both last night.
The Rivercats defeat the Grizzlies 9-3.
Jarrett Parker 2 for 4 with BB.
Ruggy is still with the org! Did you know that? 2 for 3 with 3rd HR and BB.
Ryder Jones 2 for 5 with 2 2Bs and 3 RBIs, K – . 295 avg.
Mac Williamson 2 for 4, HR (9) – .255 avg
Chris Shaw 2 for 4 – .263 avg
Jae-Gyun Hwang 2 for 5, 2B, K – .290 avg. Bring him up , bring him up…
Trevor Brown 0 for 5, 2 K – .152 avg. It doesn’t seem like we’ll be seeing any more of Brown in SF. He had a nice run last year.
Andrew Suarez 6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 4 BB, 2 K
Derek Law IP, H, 0 ER, 0 BB, K
In Richmond, the next Ty Blach throws a gem in a 3-0 victory.
Matt Gage goes the distance: 5 H, 0 R, BB, 3 K – 2.95 ERA
Slade Heathcott 2 for 3, BB – .274 avg
Miguel Gomez 1 for 4 – .319 avg
CJ Hinojosa 2 for 3, 2B – .257 avg
San Jose falls to Visalia 5 to 7.
Ronnie Jebavy 2 for 5, 3 K – .333 avg. This could be the guy playing aggressive high DRS CF for the Giants, but hitting erratically. Could be worth the trade off. Keep hitting Ronnie. You’re my guy!
Ryan Howard 1 for 5, HR (6), 2 K – .322 avg
Bryan Reynolds 3 for 5, 3B (6) – .301 avg. This could be the future CF of Giants as well.
Aramis Garcia 0 for 3, 3 K – .274 avg. Need better catching prospects than this guy.
Heath Quinn 1 for 4 – .287 avg
Gio Brusa 2 for 4, HR (11), K – .254 avg
Matt Krook 4 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 4 BB, 5 K – 6.43 ERA
This has been the minor league report.
MyGuys Reynolds and Krook. One good, one not so much!
Ruggiano went through waivers so he’s no longer on the 40-man, but did get that assignment to Sacramento. Given Slater’s success, he’s a long shot to coming back, unless Pence and Span both have their legs go wonky.
Giants sometimes make roster moves at the end of a road trip, although they did summon Crick during this roadie. Could this be Hwang’s day? Aaron Hill had a miserable trip. Nunez to get an MRI in SF, which seems likely to lead to a DL decision.
We need to keep our eye on Parker now. 2 for 4 with a walk sounds decent.
Given Hwang has a July 1 release date if not called up I would say you are right.
Good bye Mr. Hill … I liked him in Spring Training but he has been given more than a far shot: 67 AB’s, .134 BA. Maybe he can fill a hole for some other team still looking for a Vet?
It feels sad when these guys come near the end of their time playing baseball. Hill must really want to hang on this season, but 0.134 does kind of speak for itself.
Aramis MyGuy™ Garcia needs to get pushed up. As a #2 pick they need to see if they can bring back the greatness; make it rise to the top like the fat on your goats’ milk this morning.
Well after this 8 game road trip in which the Giants gave up 59 runs and 4 games of 9 runs more, the highly expensive $90M+ pitching staff officially sucks. They drop tons of cash on their starters and they are mediocre at best.
The giants best starting pitcher is a 4.23 ERA and he is the guy making league minimum.
Stats are stats but on this Road Trip do you think the two ball parks had something to do with it?
Quality starts is a stat too … Giants are the top in that.
Starting pitching is not high on the Need List.
The problem is some pore fool decided to con people into believe a 4.5ERA is a quality start. That is 3 runs in 6 innings. A 4.5 ERA is not a quality start no matter what anyone wants to suggest. That is a stat to explain mediocrity and the fact you are using to justify the pitching of the Giants just goes to show how awful a stat it is. That when the average runs scored in a game is around 4.15
And some people look at 8 games in COL and ATL to make a point.
As a cubbies fan you should know some key hitters are sinking the ship more than Starting Pitching. Just saying you are missing a bigger point to be made.
And some guys look at the month of 20 games in which 15 of them the pitching allowed 5 runs or more to make a point
The quality start is a legitimate measuring statustic in today’s game. Starting pitcher gives his team six innings and holds the opposition to three runs or less, he has given his team a chance to win.
I always chuckle when someone spits out the “that’s a 4.50 ERA!” nonsense. Not every QS is only six innings or three runs. Furthermore, it’s a legit stat widely respected throughout MLB, by teams and the media.
Nice try, 2Hole.
But three in six isn’t quality. It’s mediocrity.
It’s quality in today’s game. Again–not every quality start is only six innings or three runs. It would be interesting to see the ERA for all quality starts in the NL this year. I’d estimate 3.25-3.50.
3 WS or 3 runs
How can you say that when those running the eye test and saber portion of the game have come up with the 3 in 7 inn is quality…
Also, just looked at the top 30 (qualifying) NL starting pitcher’s ERA. The median ERA? 3.94. Yes 2Hole, almost half of the top 30 have ERA higher than 4.00.
Oh yeah, Cubs on that list? Two–Lester #15 at 3.83, Arrieta #25 at 4.36.
Blach, Cueto and Samardzjia on that list as well.
More to the point 15 of the 20 games this month the Giants have given up 5 runs or more. of the 15 games only 5 were 5 runs.
As to the point you argue is the starters are not the issue, The Giants used to pay relievers on par per inning pitched as the starters. That is to say the Giants gave starters 65% of the money spent on pitching and the relievers got 35%. This year the starters are making well over $80M and the relievers are down under $20M.
The reports of smashing and crashing in the clubhouse reminds me of this. Is this what you heard? Bruce Floyd?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eFep1dX2gM
Got up a few hours ago for a call with Austria HQ of my client and was thinking “Damn, the team hasn’t even landed yet”
I promise to remember this as they celebrate Zombie Night at the yard tonight
And watch this be The Turning Point … that would be perfect for this Zombie Zeason.
Orange Zombie Friday!
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/arrrghhghrehghhffhhgghh/