by
Greek Giant
Jeff Samardzija probably deserved better but when you pitch in a homer-happy park and you are prone to the long ball or a fly ball pitcher you are going to get burned in a place like Atlanta. Jeff Samardzija was brilliant until he wasn’t, giving up a two-run homer to Matt Adams and a wall-scraper off the top of the wall by Tyler Flowers.
Corey Gearrin was the unfortunate one, giving up a two run homer in the bottom of the 11th inning to Matt Kemp, the former dynamic Dodger who has found a new career as a slugger, putting his extra weight to good use. Gearrin’s fateful pitch was actually a very good one situated on the black of the outside corner and knee-high. But Kemp’s reach and muscle were the difference, undoing another heroic ninth inning homer by Hunter Pence that tied the game for the Giants.
This was a tough loss and Aaron Hill had a tough night, committing two errors at third and going 0-3 in a questionable move by Bruce Bochy. Why not play Kelby at third? Why, oh whay does Joe Panik get benched in favor of Aaron Hill? That should never, ever happen and moves like those are the ones that make me question our beloved manager’s sanity, or judgement.
Breckeroni likes a good triple slash re-post (good/morning/all):
I noticed that our good friend Ehire Adrianza had 3 SBs in one game the other day. Overall, he’s batting .259/.323/.333.
Been keeping my eye on Brad Zimmer. How much do the Giants regret not drafting a CFer from their own backyard at USF? He was a top of board draft prospect, but they liked Beede’s potential better. In his first 100 PAs,
Zimmer is batting .303/.380/.506, with 4 HRs and 7 SB ( and 1.2 WAR already! ). Could be #2 in AL ROY voting. Have to think about that one. Sigh.
The coulda would shoulda game is kind of fun to play with draftable college outfielders from California, Fresno north. Zimmer in CF, Judge in RF, and our good friend Austin Slater in LF (.310/.365/.466, 2 HRs – that’s very respectable!)
What are the Giants going to do with Miguel Gomez? He’s batting .320/.351/.483 with 8 HRs in AA. I’m guessing his defense is nowhere in league with Joe Panik, but seems he can legitimately swing the bat. Where to put him? What to do?
And then there’s Jae Guy Hwang. What do do? His opt out date is approaching quickly. I think Sr. Scout Matthew nailed it – basically, bye bye Hill, nice swan song, but time for the Hwang song. Jae is batting .288/.323/.467 with 6 HRs and 5 SBs in AAA, which happens to be league average production.
This has been a morning post with Bradley Zimmer regrets and several triple slash lines. Have a good day.
Glad Ehire and Gregor are doing well. They were good Giants. Just hope Blanco slumps a bit next time we see the snakes.
Also impressed by how Slater tracked and caught the “rebound” home run. Good focus.
Why?
All of the other things. Not hitting. Not scoring runs. Not playing good defense. All true.
I just don’t know why. What happened?
Pitchers have done pretty well; certainly they’ve pitched better than their record indicates. Why do they continue to lose? We know how. But Why?
I want to know when it really started. Last year? Something that happened this year?
There’s no denying it happened. Why? What caused it?
don’t you think it’s a cascade of things that basically built up and have fueled a spiral? It started well before the All Star break last year. And it has continued.
Pence started breaking down.
Span was signed, and was already broken down
Panik got beaned and lost all career momentum
Casilla and the bullpen pitched poorly, and Bruce freaked out, making it worse.
Cain didn’t recover (had a spurt early this year)
The team signed 57 AARP members to replace those leaving
Duffy was hurt, then traded
Nunez got hurt and keeps getting dinged
Short injury stints by Posey and Crawford
Left field miscalculation and injuries
Will Smith’s arm
The Dodgers got better
The Rockies got better
The D Backs got better
Matt Moore felt the pressure this season and freaked out.
That’s a quick off-the-top-of-my-head list
But,
What happened to the good players and their performances?
This record seems to indicate everyone is bad. They really aren’t ALL bad. Why do they appear so?
you and i both know that momentum and belief and team dynamics and environment go a long way in today’s world…I think many of these rich young men (and rich old administrators) are caught off guard and are in a mostly-mental spiral they can’t seem to figure out…and, let’s face it, after 3 titles, is there the huge drive and hunger to do anything to get going? is Pence or Crawford or Cain or Posey REALLY motivated to the same young, hungry level? is Bruce tired? Is Sabean satisfied and Evans incompetent? This is NOT the same Giants environment and we see it every day
Totally agree, but is that the why? Inquiring minds want to KNOW.
Just a minor amendment. Brian choses the deals, Bobby just executes them.
He also manages the FO staff.
Because there aren’t enough of them that are good.
The team has forgotten how to be slappy in succession. So many leadoff baserunners who never get past 2nd base. On the field.
This is a pretty good list but it does not explain the poor performances across the board unless it is a psychological and clubhouse culture issue. That is really the best explanation. Your list is a list of facts, not explanations. As the owner of the Giants and as a diehard fan, I want to resolve the situation by look at the root causes. Poor team construction is not a legitimate explanation. No way is this roster a 110 loss team.
Amen.
They miss Romo, Affeldt, and Blanco, not so much for their on-field contributions, but they seemed to keep the clubhouse fun. Every time Amy G woulf get a funny story during an interview, it would include Gregor. Now guys like Strickland carry around red ass for 3 years.
Each of my points could be expanded on to touch into that, but I gotta work, GG!
No one on the Giants autographed a toaster 🙂
Where would you actually sign on Melancon? Oh, different toaster. My bad
I also have been asking WHY? Since last season’s decline. There had to be something that happened for this team to fall off so quickly. This is a story that someone in the press corps has to follow up on.
IMO, I place a lot of the blame on lack of fire and complacency at the front office and managerial level. Bochy’s health problems and just his being around for so long and getting the inevitable tune-out are one problem. Also, since early in this season, the Giants showed their complacency by “resting” players within the first weeks of the season, as if all they had to do was throw their gloves out oh the field to win.
I think the Giants need to change managers NOW — someone who is fiery and a red-ass — Will Clark??
The Pitchers have not done well. Have you looked at the ERAs of our starters lately? They have been the most disappointing part of the team in my opinion.
They have been disappointing, particularly Moore. But the offense is more culpable IMO. They have been abysmal and almost no staff could be a legit contender with this offense. Add to that the pen being awful by melting down nearly every time the team has a lead and allowing inherited runners to score like it’s a promotional give away, and this is the result. I love Greece and Greek food, but I cannot f’ing stand watching Kontos pitch. He and many of the other RP are shining examples of why games get out of a hand as they almost never shut a team down while allowing tons of inherited runs. I’m a big believer in saber metrics, but I also believe gut punch losses created by the pen destroy team morale and have a cascading effect. There have been a ton of those since the ASB last year. And now it seems like this team that should be at least halfway decent has absolutely no fight left in them.
I agree. BUT, as you mention, why the offense too? I don’t get it.
The offense just isn’t that good. The OF was laughable this year with the worst LF platoon in history to go with a cooked Span and Pence. Slater hopefully will be something, but the jury is still out. And the Giants internal evaluation of the infield in terms of offensive production was just plain wrong. Crawford, Panik and Belt are good players, but they’re just not guys who can carry an offense. Plus, all three of them as LH hitters in the worst park in major league history to hit LH hurts their offensive production. Nunez is streaky but he’s nothing special, gets dinged up all the time and cannot carry an offense either. So, you combine a horrendous OF (due to both age and “preparation” by the FO) with an infield that just doesn’t hit as well as we all hoped and you have one of the, if not the, worst offense in baseball.
You may think that “The offense just isn’t that good“, but history would suggest something a little different.
No it wouldn’t. The offense wasn’t good last year either (well below league average). Yes, Hunter Pence and Denard Span were good players not all that long ago, but not any more. Panik had a decent stretch, but since the beginning of last year is a below league average hitter. Crawford has a career OPS+ of 98. I’ll admit Belt is just having a down year, but larger production is expected at 1B as opposed to SS and 2B. Eduardo Nunez is a league average hitter at best (slightly below this year) and that’s coming predominantly from the 3B position. I’m not saying it’s a *terrible* offense, but the numbers are pretty clear that it “just isn’t that good.” Better starting pitching and bullpen disguised the offensive flaws better the last several years.
Well, they have some fight. They’ve had three ninth-inning comebacks on this trip.
Yes, The Giants have shown fight but the bullpen is not up to the task.
Yes. They lost all three of those games. Brutal. 😥
That is the explanation the FO needs to find an answer to this offseason. But in the meantime they cannot sit tight, they have to do what they can to maximize infusion of young talent via trades (Cueto, Nunez, etc.). I think this team as constructed is mediocre, but there’s no reasonable explanation as to why they’re on pace to lose 100 games. It has fallen apart SO drastically since the ASB last year. And the organization seems helpless to stop it.
When Duffy got traded. it shattered them emotionally. It was like when ET flew away at the end of the movie.
A basic over-reaction to fans, some are similar to those here on TWG.
* Flannery started it PLUS years ago
NUMBER ONE – Injury to Will Smith
Number Two – Bumgarner Injury
Number Three – Inconsistency of Hunter Pence to make infielders throw him out
* Then, over-reaction to Kelly and Billy Hayes not doing their jobs
* Casilla and Romo should still be here meaning their knowledge of the leagues hitters not their flaws
* Lincecum should have been mandated to go pitch for Steve Kline in the low minors Knuckleball
* Pagan would have maybe been the only former OF to accept a backup role here
* The FO “let” Pence play all 162 whenever it happened
* Affleldt and Lopez – again for what they knew and not what they did
* The Morris injuries did not help
* Ishikawa’s mojo could have been milked further
* The three/foursome of Grant Green*Ramiro Pena*Ruben Tejada and Adrianza meant somebody was ALWAYS pushing one of the other three to excel
* Blanco was better than anybody else off the bench * should have been resigned.
* Failure of somebody somewhere staff wise at any level to TEACH Belt how to Bunt – NOT – to bunt for a single but to eliminate the shift. It effects Belt the most.
* Fans (both here and Front Office) becoming too emotionally involved on the name on the back of the jersey.
I really like the Timmy, Blanco and Belt ones.
Buster Olney tweets that Joey Votto is second in Defensive Runs Saved among first basemen. Guess who’s first.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d
By all means, he needs to be traded. He brings nothing to this team.
Shirley, somebody will value his glove and his HR/high OBP potential.
Well, obviously the Giants don’t need someone like that.
Yeah, but Krukow says he grips his bat too tightly. WE CAN NOT HAVE THAT ON THIS TEAM!
Finally an answer to WHY.
I value Belt’s glove but stop calling me Shirley!
I don’t think his real name is Shirley.
If it is we’re being denied historic data.
Right?!
What’s up with the Gold Glove Brandon? He has -1 DRS on the year?
Does this pass the eye test?
Yes. It seems like he’s a half-step slower. The WBC? The groin injury?
A big guy who’s now 30 years old, so maybe he he’s, but that doesn’t mean that DRS is a particularly accurate “stat.”
As any numbers geek like you should know, it is NOT a “small sample size” stat. It is most accurate over a 1-3 year span.
Amen, Bap. So we can compare the excellence over 2015-2016 with 17-18 and say ahhh yes, our hypothesis is confirmed with respect to SS that approach and eclipse 30 years of age.
My guess is Dr. Lefty!
By the way Doc, I took another look at the video of Rizzo’s slide showing another angle and I now see it differently. He did target the catcher even though he had a path to the plate. I am surprised he was not suspended. I still think his intentions were to dislodge the ball, not injure the catcher but it was a violation. The question is was it “dirty” and in my book it was not. But Joe Maddon should keep quiet when it comes to the Posey collision. He keeps digging himself into an embarrassing hole. He is kind of cocky and narcissistic I think…
It bugs me that the new rule is called the “Posey Rule”. It makes it sound like Posey lobbied for it or complained when it happened. If anything it should be called the “Sabean Rule”…
The rule was adopted three years after Posey’s injury–and shortly after a GM’s son, Alex Avila, was injured in a collision during the 2013 playoffs.
Scott Cousins Rule
Experience shows that our stellar defenseman can carry the entire club when he does go on a tear. That “tear” is now badly overdue, not in terms of HRs but just in terms of putting the ball well in play.
when is it that Belt has carried the team offensively? is it that one or two games a month that that sticks in your head?
That is far from carrying a team offensively.
Belt can save all the runs possible, still the team stinks and he doesn’t do enough other things to help the situation.
Well, yes. It is a month or two. We haven’t had that month or two yet so it’s time, yes?
not really, because you are assuming a month or two are “due” while I say the few good months he has ever had are outliers.
He is who he is, bigger in the minds of fans but never close to the dream (280/25).
The idiotic thing is the team believed the same and paid him so.
Let’s just leave it that you will he waiting a long time for this eruption you are presuming.
Lately we’ve been paying a lot of guys star money when their long term averages are, well, average or just slightly above (see Samardzija, Moore). Belt isn’t the only recipient of said money.
Moore doesn’t make star money, but the Giants gave up a lot to get him.
My bad, you’re right. Somehow I thought he was getting Smarge type money. I just (embarrassingly) checked his salary. However, he is getting star money in the future. Not worth it.
That’s the bad part, Smarge and Crawford and Belt deals were all back loaded, next year, Smarge 19.8M, Crawford 15.2 M, Belt .17.2 M, even Melancon only makes 7 M this year, but 55M over the last 3 years of his deal .
This bodes ill for the Giants ability to trade for serious prospects. Crawford’s career numbers suggest that this year is the norm and 2016 was an outlier. However, Belt’s numbers suggest that this year is a (bad) outlier. He’s not a .225 hitter, long term.
you also need to take into consideration both are hitting the other side of 30 soon. Baseball is littered with guys who had great early years only to settle into average to subpar production in their early 30’s.
Belt is one of those guys who hits “the other side of 30 soon”. His problem, numerically, is that his current .225 has featured 12 HR, far above his norm at this point in the season. If his BA rises to his historic norm but his power numbers fall to his historic norm, this won’t mean extra runs for the team as a whole.
2015 was actually Crawford’s outlier year .
i was speaking in terms of BA but both were outliers in RBI. Love his glove but never quite believed in the power outbreak of 2015. It was too extreme compared to his other career numbers.
9 Million in 2018, 10 Million in 2019 .
Saving runs does matter, though. And the loss of Belt’s glove could downgrade the entire infield. You’re kidding yourself if you think he wouldn’t be missed at all. You might very well be swapping one set of problems for another.
but the Giants are not competing this year and most likely not next year so essentially it does not matter. Having a great defensive 1B that is best suited to bat 7th is not ideal at his salary.
The smart thing to do would be to prepare for a 2019 push and by then perhaps one of the young kids is ready (or do what Boston did and grab a guy like Mitch Morland who arguably a better hitter than Blet and only makes 5.7M). Then spread the rest of the money owed to Belt on a few reasonable pen or bench pieces.
The main point is whatever “luxury” having the best defensive baseman in baseball means to you really doesn’t make the team any better right now.
I could see an argument for trading him. But credit where it’s due. The glove is valuable.
I get where you are coming from, but the reality is this: the Giants could have Belt, Crawford and Panik all win GGs and the team would still stink.
That is the 2017 SF Giants in a nutshell.
Yep. It’s not enough.
Their problem is that they have to sell the 2017-as-outlier theme to whatever suitors want him. That’s a hard sell at any time.
That’s my take. However, money-wise, I hope this year doesn’t form part of a longer term norm for Belt, offensively. We’ve got a lot of paid money coming online soon and it’s unfortunate that, right now, it looks like a bad deal.
In games BB9 has started as a Giant, the Giants are playing .502 (347W/343L)
In the same period , the Giants have played .518 ball (542W/504L)
In games that BB9 did not start the Giants have played .548 ball(195W/161L)
I would say Giants stats from 2011 to the present terrible play suggests the Giants are better off without Belt.
Fake memories of days long past. Belt has never had a 20+ RBI month ever. He has never had a 10 homer month or 9 homers back to back. The best he ever didwas back about 4 years ago when he had August and September with a .350/.341 average. Yet even then he did not put up the run production required to carry a team. Since then his best BA was around .320 for a month and has hit over .300 for only a couple of months total since then
None of those number are ever worthy of being called carrying the team as carrying the team means you get hot and drive in lots of runs. That he has never done.
In fact his stats scream mediocrity and not $17M a year
If your numbers are accurate then I stand corrected. It just SEEMED like he had month long tears, didn’t it? I mean in especially in terms of run production.
It is quite easy to look up his stats by year on baseball-reference.com under splits. He has had 3 or 4 months where he has hit the ball very well but even in those situations he was not piling up the RBI stats or home runs. Those are the stats that carry a team.
I look at the rbis as the key. Buster i 2012 during his MVP season and batting crown pulled down 21 RBI in each of the July Aug and Sept and hit .381, .371 , .364. While he only hit 6 home runs in a month, his average and RBI numbers were driving the teams productivity. He was involved directly in about 100 runs over the final 78 games.
Convincing stats. Thanks for providing them.
Where someone bats in the order is supremely important and coming up with runners on base is the bottom line number.
Granted that batting fourth is optimum but Span and Craw (when batting 2nd) haven’t exactly been sublime table setters for Buster. Belt has batted 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th so it’s hard to know where he stands.
Stephen Vogt DFA’d by the A’s. He was a two-time All-Star for them. Wow.
That is WOW ! They sold too late – or not at all this time!
I don’t claim to know very much about the technical side of baseball, one of the reasons I enjoy reading TWG so much, I learn from many of you. That said, I simply can’t understand why Aaron Hill is still on the team and actually playing. I recognize the whole “veteran skill set” thing but what veteran attributes or influence can make up for an average below .150?
How can they have no one in the organization, at whatever level, that would offer more potential for success than a hitter experiencing such an embarrassing level of futility over a reasonable sample size. It seems by now someone with authority would have said “this guy no longer can play”. I honestly don’t get it.
POTH (post of the hour)
Hear, hear!!
Well said! 👏👏👏👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Gillaspie and Hwang are available immediately, and Arroyo’s hand will not take forever to recover. Aaron Hill is the mystery of the season, for sure.
Ryder Jones, too.
Bochy prefers veterans, that’s it, lots of fans love Bochy and the Media loves him so never look that deep into his managing style, they will blame everybody but Bochy . The Giants have many better options then Hill in the Organization, Bochy just prefers veterans .
That’s only one thing, of many, I don’t understand.
The answer is that the Giants’ primary decision maker is Brian Sabean, who’s great friend is Bruce Bochy. Both of those guys love players like Hill, beyond all reason.
Wow, the Cubs sent Schwarber to the minors.
I wonder whose decision it was. Eppy’s or Joe’s?
Theo, I’m thinking. Somewhere within all that stifling Cubs love last offseason I read that the hierarchy was a bit shaky on Schwarzer, specifically his ability to play defense. Theo was insistent that the kid was part of his core.
This “couldn’t care less about the Cubs” baseball fan thinks they need a reset. Starts with all of them–including their fans–stop celebrating last year.
I’d take a Theo in a heartbeat.
Are you kidding? People here are still celebrating 2010, 2012 & 2014.
Maybe they like him long term, and want more time to make sure his ankle(?) is really OK. They plan to put him on the Pablo plan in the offseason, drop 30lbs of fat and add 15 lbs of muscle. Throw in some yoga. That’s how I’d play it.
And to think at one time his trade value was sky high while he was recovering from injury. It is a lesson, the Cubs should have sold high on him in a trade. He is a one dimensional player who belongs in the AL.
ESPN gonna melt down
For a guy that falls out of bed hitting, it’s quite a surprise to see such anemic average. Still has 11 or 12 long balls. Sometimes when the mechanics leave the building, the shop is closed.
Draft Aware now and I noticed in 2014 Newcombe went right after Beede and Schwarbler was the cubbies first pick way up there. So these First Rounders are getting to try the MLB but not Beede.
Fanrag’s Jon Heyman reports that Cueto is expected to opt out after the season.
https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sf-giants/heyman-cueto-expected-opt-season/
I read that ,good, it will be funny when he gets, less money than what he would have gotten by the Giants in his current deal .
Cueto will be fine, he’s highly respected around the league and there are far worse pitchers making more money.
He’s had funks like the 2nd half of 2015 with KCR. He’ll snap out of his current one.
Could be. But, money seems pretty easy to come by lately.
I guess the “Is he a rental?/ or not a rental?” question has been answered for any potential trade deadline suitors.
Got to get something for his value considering there are a lot of contenders that need his services.
FO can’t sit on their ass, do nothing and have him leave for nothing.
I agree.
As Baggarly said, that will be a purely economic decision, based on how things look at the time. What he also said is that he’s willing to listen to extension offers from the Giants, so saying that he’ll definitely opt out is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah but will someone want to trade for him with that contract and the opt out? But thank you Heyman for putting it out that that Cueto likely to opt out. Maybe that helps the cause.
Just…well…because…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715249-2018-mlb-mock-draft-early-predictions-for-top-1st-round-baseball-prospects
Just that last 10 min listening on the Radio, Radio guy giving a Giambi Career highs in HRs, but they were wrong he looked at the wrong line, it was his doubles line not HRs, joke, Baggarly saying Giants could trade Pence, not mentioning he has a full no Trade clause .
Funny, I heard him mention that, it was later in the conversation.
He mentioned he makes 18 million, not the full no trade clause, I will listen to podcast to confirm .
I missed it good catch, he said Pence has no trade protection .
I wonder if we could get Vogt for Aaron Hill and/or Gearrin?
Seriously? If Hill and/or Gearrin were cut today they would not be on a big league roster. At best they’d get a minor league deal. No team would give up a bag of batting practice balls for Hill and/or Gearrin.
No, come on Kram: I’m sure some team would be willing to trade up to a few boxes of new balls.
I neglected to give Gregor Blanco’s slash line a shout out:
.275/.373/.392, 2 HRs, 7 SBs, 102 wRC+
It’s all for you, Big Country Mike. Heckuva OBP, sure beats you know who.
—
Did you guys see the latest in the Puig saga? He hits a moon shot, admires it, styles around the bases much to the displeasure of the Mets. But what I found cool was that Cespedes and Jose Reyes made a point to confront him on the field and remind him that that is not cool. They seemed very professional about it. Will the message stick?
Anyhow, that was the #8 hitter Puig’s 13th HR, which would lead the Giants. His slash is .247/.321/.452 with 9 SBs and the same wRC+ as the beloved Gregor Blanco.
I think the message stuck. Puig’s post game remarks sounded a bit humbled. Very cool indeed that his boys checked him in the moment.
It is the totality of his goof ups. Taken one at a time – he’s just doing what everybody does when they play Winter Ball – but – as they add up – even his fellow countryman take exception.
He has some of the mad skills I’ve ever seen in the OF. “Bo Knows Bo” and his raw power is is in the top ten.
Puig has 6 DRS – and pretty much 1 WAR so far, or about same as BB9.
I would take him any day of the week and buy him a babysitter
Maybe a neurosurgeon instead of a babysitter. It’s nothing a pre-frontal lobotomy couldn’t cure.
Excellent Puig bashing!
Get Out !
Speaking of “you know who”, he’s batting .342 in in June and has wRC+ of 103 on the year. It’s all for you as well, Big County Mike. Sure the glove work ain’t what it used to be, but one can dream that someone will want to add his bat to a playoff roster. Might not happen until next year when the dynamic Ronnie Jebaby/Steven Duggar duo are ready to platoon the heck out of CF.
I think he got the message and it was handled the right way, by Latin players, one a countryman he respects dearly.
I though it was fine, it was a majestic swing, why not enjoy it. F the Cubs.
As I said =, it was better Cespedes deal with it and not one of the non Latin players. More effective and taken to heart in his own language.
I thought it was cool having El Potencia deal with it. He knows about hitting monster shots and giving the bat a flip now and then.
hey it’s how these guys learned to play a fun game. Hard to break old habits. The league would be more fun if it had a little more sabor to it.
That’s why I like Harper, he plays the game with gusto.
He is doing a solid job in AZ. Good for him. He’s reliable
As I said a few weeks ago, the team would be better off with Blanco and Pagan in the OF.
No one offered Pagan a job, other than Puerto Rico. But you are quite right about Gregor Blanco, who is still a Giant in my heart.
Greek could scoop the Angel Pagan interview.
Gregor would help this team TODAY.
Been watching that team most everyday. You can’t see what’s going on there clearly strictly from an SFGiants fan perspective. That’s like looking through a really dirty windshield. Anyone can look at the scene clearly if they wanted to, pretty easy to see they’re are doing Most Everything right down there.
Including Puig. There’s a backstory there that make Horatio Alger’s saga look like BS. That guy is getting better all the time. And yes, I did see the exchange regarding his peers educating him. Winning is fun, the Dodgers are having fun.
Just sayin, everybody, loves somebody, sometime.
Eddie Nunie wants to stay
http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Giants-Nu-ez-wants-to-get-healthy-stay-in-SF-11237694.php
They all say that.
If Bochy gets his way he will, the only way youngsters get good luck is if Management make Bochy play them, even if the Giants are 40 games out, Bochy will play the vets .
What is the definition of a veteran who is no good?
What is the definition of a veteran who is good?
Do you get to throw a coin in the air to willy-nilly decide?
Is Iguadola a washed up vet?
Why does Suzuki never NOT find a home as a reserve catcher?
Reminds me of some lyrics to a song I wrote, called “Difficult Dare”.
Why do Sherpas help their friends
Why do climbers reach the top
Why does Ice cream?
It’s not difficult to dare, but it’s not to dare
That makes life difficult.
Clutch, I had great seats right at 3B last night, and Aaron Hill was right in front of me the entire game. He looked tentative and a tick late in the field. He should have made both those plays on which errors were charged. Nunez or Kelby would have. He was overmatched at the plate.
I’ve always liked him, but I fear his time is done. Especially given that we’re in last place and any hope of postseason play is long gone. Ryder Jones and/or Jae Hwang should be on the 25-man, post haste.
Oh, Ok …
Will he want to stay with his new team after the trade?
Of course. If you’re going to be a free agent, you’re not going to eliminate a potential suitor by saying you don’t want to play there, even if you really don’t.
Not a fan and would welcome a move.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e267166a59c253aabb23a4ef670e3b2d297e5ec224cb04b703b7cdc25045b80a.jpg
Tell me the last Giant that was capable of being a starter who also had Nunez over all foot speed?
KT?
Not sure he’ll be a starter. Everyday type, anyway.
You said “capable of being a starter.” That doesn’t insure him ever getting a chance to.
Or should that be ensure?
Maybe an optical illusion but If I close my eyes and watch them both run vs each other straight ahead – I don’t see KT winning.
You?
The Giants have gone 2-8 in their last 10, but have only been able to gain a game on the Phillies, who are on a pace to lose 111 games. The last team to lose that many was the Astros in 2013, but they seem to be doing ok now. If you know what you’re doing, losing can be winning.
I’ve always liked and enjoyed watching Cueto pitch since he was a rookie, and before anyone starts posting disparaging remarks, remember he was 6th in the Cy Young balloting last year and the Cubs did not want to face him in case the PO went one more game last season.
That being said, I think it’s best for him to move on. For one he can make more money elsewhere and at his age this is most likely his last big contract.
Secondly, I highly question how much the fan base likes an respects him and I question the Giants internal makeup. I don’t see this as team where a Latino player can feel totally at home. It was the case at one point with all the Latin relievers, Pablo, some vets like Uribe, etc. But since that time the team has really changed. Just a few season ago, before Span, this was one of the few MLB teams with no AF-AM players on it.
Poeple can say what they want (and look stupid along the way) but this is concerning in that I’d want the Giants to rise back to contention soon and be able to sign the best players out there, whether they be black, blue, pink, whatever.
But players around the league talk. And Cueto leaving does not bode well for the organization if there is any perception out there that the franchise is not an attractive place for Latino ball players to consider.
That is very sad given the context of what the Bay Area in general is supposed to represent.
Thank you for giving everyone else permission to look stupid, but the example you’ve set in not being afraid to look stupid has, I’m sure, been an inspiration to the stupid for as long as you’ve been commenting.
Well you did set the bar very high.
I think the great majority of posters on TWG are Johnny Cueto fans. What factual basis do you have for saying “I question how much the fan base likes and respects him”?
Most Giants fans I know and interact with here love the guy. His joy and passion are clearly evident, and he is currently the ace of our rotation. We might get frustrated with some of his starts, but to me that’s due to the general malaise of the entire team in 2017.
Johnny has stated that he likes it here, likes his teammates and has no desire to leave. Furthermore Eduardo Nunez recently said the same thing. Another big fan favorite. If there was ANY truth to your nonsense he wouldn’t have said that.
The African-American thing is BS and you know it. They are a declining percentage of MLB players as more choose football, basketball or other sports. Without even looking I’m certain there are other teams with only 1-2 African-American players on the 25-man.
Your main reason for posting this is to stir up shit, so you can sit back and get your chuckles as we argue with you. Sad. Also sad and more than a bit ironic is that this blather comes from the guy who mercilessly dogged Lincecum, Duffy and currently still stokes a major hard-on for Belt. Hmm, does anyone else see a pattern here?
He said this because he truly believes it. He sees racism everywhere except the most obvious place: the mirror.
The crazy thing is that nothing I said should be perceived as being racist. That fact that it bothers you and gets you so hot is more concerning.
Nothing you’ve said has ever made me “hot.” I laugh at you.
well then we both provide each other with chuckles, at least we have that in common.
I don’t have anything in common with you.
You guys share like 99.999% DNA or something like that. It’s that .001 % that makes all the difference (or something like that).
Well, you’re both people. I think.
That’s right, Lon.
For some reason it’s really nice to see both of you commenting. What’s happened with VGF?
Wish I knew. Really liked that man. Thoughts and prayers to VGF.
“That is very sad given the context of what the Bay Area in general is supposed to represent.”
This is the only part I thought might be about racism. Can you explain what the Bay Area is supposed to represent, and why the Giants having few Latinos can be generalized so much?
What is sad is that otherwise intelligent people somehow get sucked into engaging with this pathetic cretin.
OK Everyone, Let’s all take a deep breath and not get too hot-headed here please. We have children on this blog.
Who made you blog cop? Oh yeah..
I’ve been discovering more corners of this blog Greek. Really nice work.
And we have adults who can channel their inner child, often.
Nice work Bradshaw
I do like your response, very well put.
But I don’t think I’m wrong in saying the Giants clubhouse atmosphere may not be as conducive or attractive to Latino ball players as others around the league.
Now Cueto saying to the press that he likes it here in passing, as Nunez did recently is just PR. I think it’s closer to what Baggerly touched on. That we may never know. Or Cueto will say more once he leaves.
Now the Giants did draft a very young kid out of Puerto Rico One would hope the work on the internal culture and make it more inviting to all by the time he is ready.
Well said. One of my first thoughts on Helio was “what if he could be the second coming of Orlando Cepeda?”
The Giants DO need to strengthen their Latin culture. In 2012-2014 they had that Venezuelan core that was essential to two WS trophies.
BTW, make sure you see the ESPN series on the Latin culture in MLB. It’s strong and growing, and ESPN is doing a multi-platform feature of the players in their own words. The current issue of the magazine is excellent. Feature story on Machado, conversation with many players on a wide variety of subjects and much more. It was done by Latin reporters who did extensive work on this project. Part of the issue is printed in Spanish. Very well done.
Those are excellent and yes I have been reading them.
Taking this conversation and opening many questions, I think it is a good idea for anyone interested on the subject to read them.
This one on Lindor is my favorite: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/19647514/cleveland-indians-shortstop-francisco-lindor-moving-us
Agree, mostly. Let’s all watch the assumptions though. Both sides. “Assumptions make an Ass out of you and Uma Thurman”. Basically.
I like this post. I disagree about fans disliking Cueto. We love him for the same reasons you do.
Your racial angles are sharp takes. I hope there is not talk around the league, but the Giants haven’t had Latin leadership in that clubhouse since Renteria. To me its glaring. This is where the firings need to happen. The Giants need deeper Latin blood in more countries. It must be hard for the Latin guys to feel at home in the SF area. Not many places nearby with Latin culture. Who wants to live in Alamo?
Your sadness and generalization of the Bay Area is pretty much wrong.
Bleacher Bob, sadly I don’t think it is wrong, that is the biggest problem.
Agree with both of you, mostly. But we must always watch the assumptions we make, regardless how logical we feel those assumptions are. We’re not there.
Up until this season, the Giants have had a strong Latin presence. A few years ago, almost a third of the team was Venezuelan. This past off season, they said goodbye to Romo, Casilla, Lopez and Blanco. Lopez retired and the Giants felt the other three were not needed due to performance. They were right about two of the three. It had nothing to due with Efrain’s imagined motives.
18 months ago, signed Cueto and Span as free agents. They traded for Nunez. Their first pick last week was a Puerto Rican kid. Their second pick was Luis Gonzalez’s son. Gorkys Hernandez has been on the roster all season, despite having the ability of Gorkys Hernandez. Their minor league teams include many players who aren’t white. The idea that the Giants care at all about race is Efrain’s weird fantasy.
Agree. But given his perspective I find him relevant. Notice, not right, or wrong, but relevant. It’s a viewpoint I can be better informed from exposure to.
I think most fans do love Cueto. This blog has contributors who tend to be a tad bit emotional in their assessments, and then the mob rules. As for the Latino situation, it’s a weird year…but up to this point, it has been (and will be again) a GREAT place for Latin players. It was a groundbreaking organization, and I will always appreciate that it was.
The timing of contracts and declines meant a bevy of Latin players left at once, and a couple of those were mistakes by the team to let them go ( I know some folks are way down on Pagan, but I would take him and Blanco back here yesterday)
Sincerely,
Juan Avatar Forever
Matthew i agree with you. If we just concentrate on Cueto, when he signed he could see a small contingent of guys he could possibly relate to. Then all of the sudden poof, they were all gone.
That’s why I wasn’t surprised by the Baggerly mention. I didn’t see it as starting crap or something like that. The situation is what it is and although I don’t know first hand, I assume Cueto would love to explore a change.
I agree with the big picture. To expand on your point, I hardly ever see the Giants associated with the defected players or prospects from Cuba, Puerto RIco, and other Latin countries. That needs to change. The draft isn’t the only way to add talent or address the team’s needs and the Giants need to expand their options.
I will say though that the FO is starting to take into account the lack of diversity and have made a more conscious effort to add more Latin players in the recent draft.
Heliot Ramos was a reach at 19 and so was Luiz Gonzalez in the 2nd round but they both come from Hispanic backgrounds, which I believe factored into their decision to take them earlier than projected.
I will also point out that this doesn’t apply to every Latin players that suited up for us in recent years. Blanco felt at home in SF and wanted to stay on the team, and Nunez recently stated that he would welcome re-signing with the team.
As far as the fanbase, we support whoever is on the team, and cheer loudest for whoever performs best. Latin players are no exception.
The Giants players decisions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaE6toi4mk
I thought just interesting data from an article about how the Astros are abandoning the 4 seam FB.
https://i.imgur.com/CvE5Z66.png
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-grand-fastball-experiment/
I guess bad 4-seamers don’t have that “hop” at the end and end up being HRs far more often.
The fact they correlate is what puzzles me. Maybe that’s just a consequence of the clustering though. The era of the 4seam was really prior to lowering the mound perhaps. Thank you Bob Gibson, LOL.
What was up with the ’11 Cards?
I was wondering that too – how come a team doesn’t see more than they throw?
One of the most impressive pitchers I ever played behind threw a four-seam that “hopped” or seemingly rose as it approached the plate. It didn’t, of course, but looked like it. It scared the shit out of some RHBs.
What he had was speed and outlandish spin-rate. Ironically that was his name. Speed.
No more Miss Kitty back pack for the Giants bullpen but last night the club made Gearrin play the the part of Christopher in the video – in their clubhouse, then they showered – went out for ribs and most importantly for the 50th time this season almost – turned the page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkSniFFXyU
Derek Carr being given an all time high (for the NFL) salary for the next 5 years. He’s good but is he THAT good? I don’t think so.
Makes no sense. You’d think just from the standpoint of wanting to save money for other players, they wouldn’t overpay him to that degree.
Phillies up 3-0 in the 7th…Cain pitching tonight…they have a chance to cut the margin to two games.
I’d like to know where I stand in the shit stirring department. There must be a shit stirring comment factor (SSC) that Matthew is keeping tabs of.
The eye test says Efrain is the leader by far, but where does The Oracle stand? I feel like I could be up there as well. Anybody else come to mind ?
🙂
Runnit retired that trophy.
They were just nasty and ignorant. When it comes to shit-stirring, NO BODY beats The Instigator.
I was kind of hoping to spread oil on today’s slightly troubled waters there. Since I have been called a racist by Efrain on a prior occasion, I think my vote would cancel yours. For sure, Footy is only in third place, trailing by a lot.
C’mon. Everbody’s a racist to E.
Nonetheless, it bothered me that someone could read me so wrongly, and it bothers me when I see others called that, and I wish to hell it would just stop.
I’d like to be either on the 40, or maybe starting in the seniors shit stirs League.
Or something. Anything, it’s a long season. Lineups?
Thanks for the shout out?
What’s that supposed to mean?
Read Ryan’s again. He has me in some cop role
No, just the scorekeeper.
Not my opinion, just my translation.
Lost in translation?
Lets start a Scarlett Johanson thread. Is she a fan?
Not of Trump.
You just moved up your own list.
Heard of Bayrock? Check it out. Sater too.
We can only hope.
E Ryan
He’s gets a little too angry and upset for someone who’s just a scorekeeper.
I wish I were as calm and serene as you. Not meant to be.
http://www.rowthree.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Rio-Bravo-560×373.jpg
You took that bait too easily. Put me on the list.
I must not be aware of all the history that goes into shit being stirred. Your two leaders often make interesting thoughtful posts. If those posts have embedded shit I must miss it, or ignore it. Apparently buttons are being pushed. It’s tired to be honest. I’ve even begun to like Peter’s posts, when he isn’t insulting someones personal qualities. He has some solid takes. MilbSF or whoever, was the worst. When I first posted I was accused of impostering that guy. The worst.
I find that Efrain and the Oracle not infrequently make very fine posts. I like that their posts usually can’t be construed as having two or more meanings. They’re unambiguous posters. Some may take this as a lack of subtlety but I take it as having the courage of your convictions. Carry on E and TO!
Milby was shite, really. Justa stone drag.
PJ does have solid takes. Trouble is, at the end of the day he’s stuck with being himself. Like the rest of us.
I find your material resonates with my sense of sensibility. Make sense?
Didn’t TO once say she was his Ex?
I think of you as being more informative than controversial. E and TO do like to stir the pot but I see their unadulterated creation of controversy as a net positive for the blog. I like both of them because I like discussion and discussion is created (stirred?) by forthrightly stated opinions. I say … KEEP EVERYONE!!
I think we should all take our diversity out for a night of salsa dancing and a cool walk on the beach.
Agreed.
What about a night at the ballpark? I was thinking of organizing an annual TWG convention?
Do it!! I’ll keep my hands to myself. Except for Peachy, of course.
I know of Turkish Delights, not with Persian Delights.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fd3973cdd72e454d4cd54e10e2a56fa97ca4efbabb8a81bd1481f250bebc814d.png
love that the troll has an earring and a dagger and those arm bands. Some G of T stuff!
ZZZZZZZZZ
Top?
And he’s got Legs
Phillies won. Time to take advantage.
Wrong. You don’t want the #1 overall pick. That thing is cursed.
J.B. Bukauskas (North Carolina), Adam Haseley (Virginia), Brendan McKay (Louisville) and Brent Rooker (Mississippi State) are the 4 Golden Spikes finalists. The Giants have good luck with those.
they could have drafted Rooker – maybe they should have, I don’t know
David Price, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper, Gerritt Cole, Carlos Correa…
Okay, good point, but what about Mark Appel, Tim Beckham, Luke Hochevar, Matt Bush, Delmon Young, Bryan Bullington…
Of course there’s no guarantee. It’s only an opportunity, but you still have to execute.
I’d feel more comfortable closer to 5 than 1, but maybe that’s just me.
Something about sticking one’s neck out come to mind.
You’re mindful today.
Wait, there’s more…
I think the Giants are a lot like the Democratic Party. Consistently getting beat in contests across this great nation and can’t hit their way out of a wet paper bag. And that must make the Dodgers the Republican Party, carrying those big sticks and knowing exactly what to do with them.
Apt analogy or just more points in the SSC column?
Politics is more like the NL Central, where the leader is just barely over .500.
Not bad, not bad at all.
or under as well
Read a new Q I had for you, below.
The Cardinals are the Republicans. Dodgers are American Freedom Party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_GKZNvPD-4
Puig PO’ed the Mets last night, so much so, Cespedes had a ‘talk’ with him.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/mets/2017/06/22/mets-were-not-pleased-yasiel-puigs-slow-trot-but-come-up-short-8-2-loss/418731001/
Something about pots and kettles comes to mind.
Whoa – you’re calling all Cubans kitchenware?
I love you Footy!
Nothing Puig did was wrong. The Mets are horrible and got too sensitive.
Giants tonight: 3B Tomlinson, 2B Panik, RF Pence, 1B Posey, LF Slater, SS Crawford, C Hundley, CF Hernandez, RH Cain.
Bochy being Bochy with tonights lineup, Belt in this series had a double (umps took away) a HR and a triple, gets a day off, Posey who has looked bad in this series, 1 hit, gets the start at 1st base .
He wants Belt fresh for tomorrow’s jet lag game.
You just earned your moniker!
I’m afraid he’s long deserved it.
The reverse pennant race:
Phillies —
Giants 2.5
Padres 5
Reds 7
A’s 7.5
Mets 8
White Sox 8.5
When is the Battle of the Bay/Bay Bridge Series? An intriguing match-up.
Tickets for the Oakland phase are already discounted.
A pretty interesting comparison of Cuban players and prospects looking at their performance in Cuba and how they compare to the US. An attempt to develop some sort of way of interpreting Cuban players stats as a predictor of MLB performance.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/cuban-stats-examining-the-big-picture/
Hopefully, the Lakers will actually the mistake of drafting Lonzo Ball tonight, although I’m afraid Magic is probably too smart for that.
If the Lakers do draft Lonzo, Magic will make sure that LaVar is relegated to yelling at the Chino Hills HS coach where his youngest still plays.
Basketball analysts say Lonzo Ball is the best fit for the Lakers.
He’s never going to be anything close to a star in the NBA.
He looked slow footed, not extremely physical, and might well get eaten alive by the speed and ferocity of the NBA
I agree. Don’t get the hype. At all.
I will have to bet you a bag of Orville’s lightly buttered pop corn.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/game-75-preview-second-four-game-series-in-a-row-concludes-in-atlanta/