by
Greek Giant
With Eduardo Nunez, Hunter Pence, Buster Posey and Joe Panik all resting and out of the starting line up, Bruce Bochy bascially sent out his “F*ck You” crew in the rubber game of the series agains the Indians. I always wondered why the skipper decides to mass pool his starters’ rest days. I honestly don’t get it unless it’s some psychological ploy to motivate the back-ups. Yesterday, behind a gritty effort from Matt Cain and a dramatic 2-strike, 2-out, 2-run pinch-hit double by Buster Posey the Giants were able to squeeze out a gratifying win.
One doesn’t expect the Giants to score three in the bottom of the 8th when they’re down 2. It’s just too much to ask in 2017. But on this day, thanks to the best catcher in baseball, the Giants sent home a big crowd happy on a beautiful afternoon that also happened to be my father’s 80th birthday.
Thank You Giants.
Matt Cain walked an American League pitcher who, of course came around to score. That was going to be my headline if the Giants lost.
The Giants are supposedly signing Pablo Sandoval. There are some contractual formalities but it looks like the Panda is back. At first I was non-plussed by this decision thinking the Giants have nothing to lose. Upon further reflection I am not sure this is a good direction for the Giants who need to get younger and more athletic. Pablo is neither of those and he did not exactly leave under good circumstances.
Don’t get me wrong. I will always love Pablo for what he has accomplished but the negative energy of this move outweighs (no pun intended) the potential benefits because in all seriousness, does anyone expect the Panda to hit .300 and play a solid third base anymore?
I wonder what player Pablo will prevent getting a chance at third base (Arroyo?, Hwang?, Jones?…)
The Giants are making moves this past year that make them look like a bottom of the barrel-scraping team struggling to get by.
This all smacks of desperation and a team without a vision for the future.
It looks gauche and a bit tacky.
The Box
Pretty good final sentence.
Happy Birthday to your dad.
I think you are right about the bomb squad lineup – those guys must do some bonding on the bench, and probably do want to play well together on the field.
Breckeroni predicts one of the next “five questions” is ‘how long will this hot Giants team continue the winning streak?’
Indeed. Great post GG. I echo Happy Birthday wishes to your father on his 80th. This entire Pablo scenario is absurd. I’m losing more respect for the Giants every day with this nonsense.
It was definitely encouraging to see the reserves play and get four ABs in a win. Gillaspie is a proven MLB hitter, in that he will give you a quality AB every time he steps to the plate. Kelby needed a game in the field. Hundley as well. Miguel Gomez needs to play every day. Dude can hit. Send him to Sacto and/or get him some OF reps.
We need the Brandons to have a strong 20 game stretch here. 15 of 20 at home, the five roadies in LA/Oakland. Get those numbers up and regain some confidence.
This is an excellent plan.
Conor Gillaspie hit and fielded better and better as he got more playing time last year. This year he’s often tied up a 25-man spot, but without being used. Play him, or use him as a trade piece. The guy deserves a MLB slot.
Schulman tweeted that, while he doesn’t expect the Giants will make decisions based on negative public reaction, he’s never seen such a universally negative response from fans about something.
Tim Flannery promises to give his take on Pablo on tonight’s pregame show, and it sounds like it will be a hot take. Setting my DVR so I don’t miss it while eating dinner!
in a season full of head shakin” moves by the giant’s brain (brainless) trust, signing pablo is the head shakinest.
Yup. I don’t trust the brains of the braintrust either.
I always wondered why the skipper decides to mass pool his starters’ rest days.
I guess they figure if sitting one guy will lead to a loss, might as well sit all of them.
He thinks he’s Steve Kerr!
I was thinking exactly about that Spurs game!
I agree with your reasoning, “Well, it’s going to be a loss, might as well rest all of them.” I’ve gone to games and have get disappointed when I see a bunch of scrubs in the lineup. I know guys “need days,” but it’s bad for the fans when that happens. In yesterday’s case, maybe Bochy wanted to do a mass showcase to make it easier for the scouts.
Just to clarify, this wasn’t what I would necessarily do, it’s what I was guessing the manager/coach is thinking.
But yes, the fans really do lose in this situation.
Isnt it beautiful how most of the readers here were never given a second chance in life at anything! Some of you clowns here who are against Pablo need to get off your holier then thou wine sipping asses and quit acting like you’re perfection at it’s finest because it’s truly sickening to me ! The same Aholes that didn’t want Aroldis because of his past silliness which i hate to hear about are the the same ones clamoring against Mr Sandoval! Give the man a chance and shut up and see what happens for one and get off of your white horses as if you’ve never made mistakes or said things that you’ve regret! I really took my time and typed this to the best of my abilities so please no shenanigans about my writing ok!
Well, I’m sipping coffee right now, but what’s wrong with sipping wine after 5 pm, I ask you?! 🙂
nothing lolol
You should always say what you think!
Amen!
i agree but its crazy when folks act like they’re so damn perfect in every way by going against this move lol we have nothing to lose here
No money lost, to be sure, but this will cost player development time, and maybe even damage whatever the clubhouse spirit is at the moment.
Anyway I do feel TWG is a discussion forum, where we are unlikely to change anyone’s minds, but we get a chance to know how others are feeling. So I don’t mind Sandoval getting another chance, but I kinda wish it was with someone else. It is possible that the Giants will give him the best environment to turn things around in?
As they always say, “time will tell”.
I hear ya!
I cannot see the “clubhouse spirit” being damaged any further than whatever it presently is, and I can’t see anybody’s development time being cut into.
Well, by reading popular opinion, I guess I’m supposed to be completely pissed about the Giants signing Pablo.
But, in this absurd run of a full calendar year, one in which I saw Duffy traded, guys like Hill, Ruggiano, Stubbs, Morse, and Rollins signed…I’m still trying to figure out why a minimum deal for a guy who has the potential to add something…something…to a last place team flailing about in an entirely embarrassing fashion is such an earthquake.
Perhaps it’s because I have an inherent distrust of reporters and their wont to sensationalize. Perhaps it’s because I’m not so concerned about coddling the current crop of underperformers who might be upset by this.
This has been the worst 12 months of my Giants life…not because they are a last place team (I’ve lived through that before)…but because the players have been richly rewarded as if they are a championship team…as has the manager…as has the executive staff. And I see an absolute system wide failure. Given this collective face plant, given the general mood I see when watching this team perform…given that something needs to happen, I still ask “why not?”
Someone convince me why the sky is falling…other than the egos in the clubhouse of a last place overpaid team will be bruised
I agree with you completely. I’m not enamored of Pablo returning–honestly, despite his heroics, I was relieved when he left. It was easy to see, watching his last few years here, that he was undisciplined and was going to let himself go once he got his money. I thought it would be a risk for the Giants to sign him as a free agent, and things turned out even worse than I believed they might.
That said: No, the sky isn’t falling. There’s no promising youngster who’s going to be blocked right now. Likely scenario: Pablo goes to Sacramento and is still bad at baseball, and this chapter ends in about six weeks. Best-case scenario: Pablo lights a fire under himself, still has value–and the Giants control him through 2019 for a TOTAL outlay of less than $1.5 million.
Either way, even if a few players get their feelings hurt because he acted like a jerk and management doesn’t seem to care, and even if we fans still hold a bit of a grudge because of his classless exit–well, it’s a low-risk baseball move, and why shouldn’t the Giants make it? Seems like the one for Sam Dyson is working out pretty great and could pay off in future, hopefully much happier, seasons.
Giants should be a featured guest on HGTV’s The Bargain Hunter for obvious reasons!
The reason for the “Why not?” is, if you read my post above, the Giants are failing in large part because they are not building for the future. Their current crop of talent, especially in the outfield, is aging, not athletic, prone to injury and simply not performing. Baseball has become, more and more, a young, athletic player’s game and The Giants are not getting this memo. Signing Pablo out of nostalgia smacks of a desperate PR move or a move that a perennial bottom-feeder like the A’s would make to generate fan interests and it should be beneath a Championship caliber organization, especially after the way Pablo treated the team and the city once he signed his fat contract in Boston.
If Arroyo were healthy, I’d agree. But let’s look at the situation this minute. Arroyo’s out until September, maybe for the duration. Jones got one hit in the majors and just got HBP again. Hwang isn’t lighting the world on fire, either. Conor Gillaspie is a bench player. Nunez is very likely going to be traded within days.
I see no scenario where a healthy, productive Arroyo, still only 22 years old, is getting blocked next year by 31-year-old Sandoval. IF Sandoval works out at all this season–and it’s a very BIG “if”–in future maybe he’s a bench bat, being paid by the Red Sox through 2019. That’s cheaper than Aaron Hill was.
Well, maybe your reasoning is fair, regarding this season but it does not address the appearance that the Giants are desperate and not building for the future. It sends the wrong message to all teammates and to the young guys in the Minors. I think the negatives far outweigh the potential positives. Plus, does Evans really think Pablo will be better than Nunez or Arroyo next year? I mean, Sandoval was incredibly bad the past two years. Will a change of scenery mean that much of an improvement when his OPS was in steady decline while with the Giants?
As I said above, I don’t see Pablo blocking Arroyo when Arroyo’s ready–and let’s not forget, Arroyo was NOT ready, which is why he was sent down before he got injured. As for Nunez, I like the guy, but (a) he’s a free agent after this year, so there’s no guarantee he’ll be back (b) he seems to have chronic hamstring issues and (c) you can’t really hide him anywhere on defense. Nice utility player with his bat and speed (if the legs are healthy), but not someone you make long-term decisions around.
I’m not sure what to think about “messages” to the clubhouse or the minors. This team and organization is in a freefall. Coddling their feelings seems rather beside the point right now.
By the way, for us east coasters, please post your thoughts and recap of Flan’s comments about Pablo when you can.
I’m not sure if these are the Flan comments you’re thinking of, but I saw him on – I believe – MLB Now a few days ago. And Flan’s comments were strange, and didn’t add up. He kept saying that in that final season in SF Pablo couldn’t stay healthy and on the field due to his weight, couldn’t play defense well anymore, and contributed to “a couple games” that postseason.
But…he got more PA than any other season in his career that year, played more innings defensively than any other season (and was a finalist for a Gold Glove, +4 DRS, +3.5 UZR), and put up an .888 OPS that postseason. So literally the opposite of everything Flan said. It’s like he was conflating separate negative aspects of completely different seasons (poor defense due to weight in 2013, poor postseason in 2010, etc.) than the one he was actually talking about.
Hmmmm, interesting
so, what is it you want them to do TODAY that addresses that? Another sub .200 call up? Where are we to harvest “young, athletic players”? We don’t have assets to magically receive such animals
Building for the future is a long term process. Signing Pablo doesn’t hinder that whatsoever.
What I want today is not sign aging, overweight, over-the-hill players like Hill, Ruggiano, Pablo, etc. and call up young guys and let them play, even if they fail, to get them experience and evaluate them for the future. What I want is savvy drafting and trading for young, talented and athletic prospects…
You asked!
So what you want is “do nothing now…draft well and we’ll talk in 4 years”?
I’m sorry to harp on it like this, but it’s my honest opinion that we are making way too much out of this cheap signing….
We have an EMPTY pipeline from below, we have untradeable contracts of washed up vets at the big club. A minimum wage guy became available with history here…and was signed. It does NOT preclude your hopes. It doesn’t delay your hopes.
But, do you truly have the patience for how you want the “rebuild” to happen?? You bark when starters are rested (“benched”). You can’t have it both ways
You are making leaps that are not really what my argument is stating. First: Our pipeline is not empty. Second, signing Pablo, no matter how well he does, blocks someone else’s spot on the rosters and their progression. Third, the signing reeks of desperation and is this the message the team wants to send fans and players: We are dumpster divers willing to throw any move to the walls and see what sticks? Maybe the signing is a lark and the cut Pablo in a few weeks but the image the signing creates matters and to answer your question, yes, I am patient and I can wait a few years if I have confidence the team is going to build a winner. With moves like these, the signings of the players like Hill etc, I don’t have that confidence because they are myopic, BAD moves.
1 – It looks much emptier than the competition. What part of “.143” are you not seeing?
2 – Is Sam Dyson blocking people? Maybe. But, who specifically is Pablo blocking for the next 2 1/2 months? Ryder .063?
3 – Should this team NOT be desperate???
4 – I haven’t seen much patience by any of us, you included. The bad stretches are followed by lot’s of anxiety and anger. But, more importantly, why should we or the owners be “patient” when the investments are so high and the results so low.
It seems absurd that this Team of the Decade is now being advised by some fans to go the way of the A’s
Pablo was signed for next to nothing. It’s no big deal
It seems like you are mistaking our conversation for an argument with a winning position and not a difference of opinion. It’s the type of thing that happens without context and our discussion would probably better served for a face to face chat one day.
Drinks at the Clevelander!!!!!
Not at all, Greek…an amicable debate.
The Giants are in too deep. They keep looking for a quick fix for one more run.
I guess that you would not sign me then–aging and overweight and over the hill, not to mention being on the perpetual DL
correct
Smacks of a short term temporary move in which if he can perform mediocerly, they can move parts and have a substitute at little to no cost while some of the younger guys get more seasoned as well as stock the minors with someone they get in trades
I approve of this message.
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-06-at-10.21.04-PM-650×359.png
You’re supposed to feel whatever way you want. It’s more your thing to tell others how they’re supposed to feel.
You’re the BEST!
If and when Pablo comes back to SF i just dont see the bubbly guy anymore at least for awhile i think he’ll be a little more reserved kind of like the bully that got his butt kicked and now he has to look everyone in the face after the fact.
Vintage!!
Haven’t seen Pablo lately. What’s he look like these days? As heavy as ever, a little lighter than the worst photos cropping up, or respectable shape for Sandoval?
I haven’t paid much attention. The first photo in a Rivercat uniform will be interesting. My sense is Pablo hasn’t hit much, to go along with not being able to field. This could be a dumpster dive that finds only what one expects to find in a dumpster.
He looks like he ate David Ortiz, after Ortiz had eaten Bartolo Colon
I heard Hector Sanchez ate Pablo than bludgeoned the Giants with his bat.
He took his daily allotment of Vitamin Pablo! Now that you mention it: Maybe this is whey Evans signed Pablo! He knew someone else might try to and he was afraid of the chance that Panda would come back and hammer his own team the way Hector did last weekend! It’s Evans being proactive!
without the David Ortiz hitting credentials I might add….
After Bartolo Colon had eaten David Wells.
Burp!!
Dugout gas be devastating.
The Panda simply knew what he was doing all along. Get a big ole fat contract after the 2014 WS, stay out of shape, and play like crap for an annoying east coast powerhouse. All to get released, keep the money, and come back to San Francisco lead us to another 3 in 5.
Well played, Panda. Well played indeed. ;^)
POTD
who doesn’t love a good diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive, now and then? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0d2ef6d82f86f8a34d9b241ab96908be958242b16219f46c569add852e483b16.jpg
And it’s root, root, root for the Gi-ants, if they don’t win it’s a shame..
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fe72ee926ec638b571b391d7be29aa324c7e1f1592e46a2a24b97067c4398153.jpg “Call Roto-Rooter, that’s the name, and you can wash those Giants blues right down the drain!”
Classic images!
Thanks, I took the photo of the drainpipe right at the ballpark. Au natural, you could say. Nothing in Allen’s caliber, but then WTH – truth is where you find it.
Jeff Beck has an album called Truth.
Albert Collins has one called Love Can Be Found Anywhere, Even In A Guitar.
A respite from the Panda-dome. Trade rumors. Nunez and Strickland, hmmmmmmm. I do think Nunez defense at 3B looks pretty sharp.
“We know Dombrowski and his staff have had a few conversations with other
teams about third basemen and relievers. According to a major league
source, the Red Sox have had discussions with the Giants concerning
third baseman Eduardo Nunez and reliever Hunter Strickland. Nunez isn’t a
power bat — only four homers — but he has hit in the .300 range most of
the season and has played a decent third base, although he’s not known
for his defense.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/07/19/red-sox-continuing-explore-trade-options/DtYxqELK1vMUcI40ARMvHK/story.html
I for one am not upset about Panda coming back. At the very least, this signing is entertaining/interesting, in the middle of a season that is anything but.
If Belt is traded and Sandoval turns up at 1B or in a platoon at 1B, I will not be amused.
OK, that’s not only quite plausible, it is scary.
I’d be satisfied with that or Nunez traded and Pablo goes t 3rd.
Do you say that as a Dodger fan?
I say that as a baseball fan and no I am not a Dodger fan. The Giants lose nothing by signing Pablo to a minor league contract. What they get is a a person that can play first or third for basically nothing. That makes those positions potentially open for being traded in an otherwise lost season. The Giants should get some reasonable close to MLB ready prospects for Nunez or Belt. They basically have nobody that has performed well this season that they brought up from the minors outside of Slater who got injured. So he would not be blocking anybody they already tried. If he does not work out or a minor league player becomes a productive MLB player Pablo is a zero cost cut.
He got DFA’d because he couldn’t play.
Couldn’t or wouldn’t? Injuries has plagued Pablo including a knee sprain shoulder surgery and most recently an inner ear infection. The shoulder issue had happened in SF which is why started to wear an arm sleeve. I will tell you an inner ear infection can hurt like hell after having one last year. It took over a week to go away and 3 weeks for hearing to recover.
He certainly was he not productive, and with all the stints on the DL with the lack of productivity, sometimes you just cut your losses. That does not mean he might not become productive.
Do people realize how bad Pablo had to be for the Red Sox to simply tell him to go away with that contract? When you think about it it’s nothing short of staggering and a testament to how far the Panda has fallen.
They decided paying him $50 million not to play was better than having him on the team. It doesn’t get much worse than that.
If he could play 3rd why has he been released by the Red Sox? His replacements haven’t exactly tearing it up. This is not like Dyson who had a solid track record and needed a change of scenery. Pablo has been in a steep decline for 3 yrs. This is flat out stupid. Management has traded the goodwill of the players (and a lot of fans) for a 1% chance a replacement level will emerge. This is doing something to do something, not doing something smart even if it is small action.
There have been several POTDs today. I declare that this is the real POTD!
Yes to this.
Happy belated birthday to your father GG!
My friend who I was supposed to go to the game with tonight is sick in bed (conveniently I found this out just now) so I’m going alone cause I can’t find other friends who are either actually available, don’t live out of town or are Giants fans to join me. can’t miss out on Bum and 2nd row seats behind the BP.
On the bright side, I’ll have 3 extra Pence GoT bobbleheads to sell on eBay… 😆
To me it can be all summed up simply as: He left as Panda and is returning as Pablo. He is undeserving of any previous terms of endearment. I’m still calling for Panda Hat Demolition Night (in memory of the late, great Bill Veeck). After all, hasn’t this become something of a circus act? And OMG, if he returns for his AT&T homecoming in front of a sea of those hats…
Mariners are getting Miami setup man David Phelps. For 4 prospects.
Compare Phelps to Strickland who costs less and has more control:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6316&position=P
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7836&position=P
Sure, Phelps is probably better, but can’t Strickland net just one CF prospect?
https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/888062395977011200
More control. But what about self-control?
Pablo Sandoval’s OPS+
2011: 155
2012: 123
2013: 116
2014: 111
2015: 75
2016: -56 (played only 3 games)
2017: 63
09 his best year. 943 ops. 25 bombs. 90 rib eyes. 330 avg.
He could hit. Emphasis on could.
I always thought, even back then, that he had too much success and got too much attention too quickly for such a young guy. He was 22 in 2009, and you’re right–it was a GREAT season. They built their marketing campaign for 2010 around him, and his weight ballooned, his play regressed, he got divorced, and he ended up benched in the World Series and threatened by Sabean with demotion if he didn’t shape up.
The Giants around 2008-09 were desperate for relevance and for new heroes in the post-Bonds era. Zito didn’t pan out then, but Lincecum fit the bill with the electric stuff and the two Cys, but he only played once every five days. Pablo was the other really exciting thing going. If he could have been more under the radar–for example, if he’d come up when Posey was getting all the attention–maybe he would have adjusted better.
The talent was clearly there–see 2009 and 2011–but at some point he seemed to stop working and just relied on the talent and popularity too much. At least that’s how it all appeared.
To have the 2008 to 2012 Panda would be great but to expect anything close to that is unrealistic.
How would Sandoval react to being a less than worshiped utility player:?
I once thought Sandoval would be a career long Giant in the HOF.
I found the Panda shtick annoying but maybe the kids liked it.
Those stats scream “meant to be a Giant!”
The tale on Sandoval is in his splits.
Some gems from the comment section at http://www.sfgate.com/giants/articleComments/Report-Giants-bringing-Pablo-Sandoval-back-11301015.php https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/43817df4d9d0bc41057bbabf9a1ae54fdc7bdaf23d279c6f65be2698e2287c04.png
Click on the image to expand.
I dunno, the fat jokes are a little hack at this point. And now the Huff reactions are surfacing again, where he richly talks about Sandoval being out of shape and a bad teammate. Amusing, since Huff showed up out of shape after he got his contract, and then abandoned the team without telling anybody. I am not optimistic about Sandoval’s future success, but some of these takes just seem like overreactions.
I found Cueto’s quote about the morgue atmosphere earlier, so another under the radar positive will be liveliness in the clubhouse…
Yeah, I enjoyed Huff’s initial take (“Pablo was always about Pablo”) when Sandoval was first being a jerk.
Then I learned that Huff was abusing drugs and alcohol the whole time he was on the Giants, and signed a big new contract after 2010 when he was either just out of rehab or about to go into rehab (not sure which). He spent the 2011 season cashing his checks and abusing drugs and playing lousy.
I’m not judging Huff, who clearly was having a rough go of it, but maybe he should keep his mouth shut about others he played with during that time. Sandoval, for example, had a stellar 2011 season while Huff was letting the team down and others were injured (Buster, Freddy S.) He was one of the few bright spots, an All-Star, and I thought he should have been in the running for the Wille Mac Award. (Vogelsong deservedly won it that year.)
I hope Giants’ management is reading these comments, and ours. Well, most of ours.
Pablo Sandoval:
Out of shape and injured and no longer hitting right handed. Sure!
He should be on this blog, given those attributes!! But, we DID stay after 2014
Yeah. No East Coast blog is going to lure US away with promises of big money and “a new challenge.” No sirree. And we don’t even have weight clauses here at TWG!
Weight clauses would be a serious issue….
I’m pretty sure it would be easy to get GG to agree to a no-trade provision, ruling out ever being on Dodgers Extra.
My legal team is working on this right now.
I don’t have a baseball America account so can’t read all of this but you can at least see the top 10 updated rankings.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-san-francisco-giants-midseason-top-10-prospects/#1SyeMBrZHGxwdKiJ.97
PANDA Puffs shout out!!!!!!
Done with the busiest part of the year and back in action!
Notable omission, cj Hinojosa. He’s probably about 7th with Duggar.
Ryan Howard too. Probably 10th. Giants develop utility infielders like no other!
Maybe Matt Krook can cajole his way onto this list. Throws tonight for SJ.
Hey Ry, what do you think about this list? This guy lives in the Philippines, I think, and is a student, but he blogs on Giants prospects and wants to come to the U.S. and be a scout. I actually thought this was a pretty decent list.
http://giantprospective.blogspot.com/2017/07/2017-mid-season-special.html
This guy Wrenzie really works hard, he’s a good follow.
Agree–seems very likable, too.
Have to give him an Invitation to MyGuy™ next year. That would look good on his scouting resume.
Wrenzie! I am familiar with him from Kyle’s blog from a couple years back. He did a fantastic job on these posts. Good info, solid insights. He might have a career as a part time scout!
Organizing in tiers is the way to go. An argument for Ramos #1 can certainly be made.
If those scouting grades hold up, he absolutely will be their #1 prospect.
He’s probably right about Reynolds (as is The Oracle), not quite showing what you’d want out of top prospect. Not a lot of power, albeit 8 triples, and limited base running. Maybe Tier 2 with Duggar fits.
Reynolds was a second-rounder, it’s worth remembering.
he certainly fell out of 1st
Sensible appraisal of talent that I can relate to and mostly agree with. Could be a valuable voice along with a few others.
The exception is that he doesn’t seem to fully understand significant differences in the different minor leagues.
Que?
e.g. -Eastern League vs. PCL characteristic strengths and weaknesses.
I could have sworn he mentioned the pitching atmosphere with respect to Miguel Gomez and I’m confident Wrenzie knows what each league is about. He studies, he knows his shit.
OK. Wheel sea. I need to go now. As I said, I like his take and mostly agree with him.
Oh yeah, saw that Wrenzie gave Shaw a 25 on the speed scale. I recently read a comment by someone who saw him in outfield and on bases in Albuquerque and had similar impression, that he was a real clogger. The only slower guy on the field was Matt Winn, catcher. The notion was that Shaw is ticketed to 1B with wheels like his.
I’ve seen him play in Sac a couple times now, and he was on base three times on Tuesday. I didn’t notice his speed being an issue one way or the other. The first time I saw him, he made a great running catch down the left field line. I certainly don’t think he’s any water buffalo out there.
You know who can really burn is Jarrett Parker. I’ve noticed that before in Sacramento, and on Tuesday, he just raced around the bases, scoring from first on Shaw’s double. And it wasn’t two outs, either. He’s just fast when he gets up a head of steam.
So perhaps Parker can slide into CF next year? Worth a shot. May as well give this reps this year. But you know the Giants, they don’t listen to us.
He was playing CF on Tuesday. I see no reason not to bring him back and give him some reps there this season.
He’ll be 29 years-old on January 1st. Not a player.
Not a whole lotta of “players” in the org, if you catch my drift. Got throw out the best they got until something better comes along. The mean 1st draft pick the next few years could be <5 !
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/888056809864519680
Love it. Hope the Astros win it all. And I dig Sonny Gray as well.
That’s good. Last I saw was the Phillies! And I thought, poor Sonny!
The question is ‘can Gay escape Oakland with his arm intact’?
Sonny Gray on the Astros! Good for him and good for them.
Not there yet. But where there’s smoke…
I may send a “booming” message when deal gets finalized 🙂
When I lived in Houston (around same time as cc), I went to many Astros games. I’ve been watching more Astros games this season. I’ll start watching a Giants’ game then switch over to the Astros’ game.
The land of the toy cannon, until recently.
Alex Pavlovic: “For two days over the weekend, I chatted with players and team employees about the possibility of Sandoval returning. I didn’t find one who was eager for the move.”
Call me old-fashioned but I think it matters what players and team employees think about Sandoval’s possible return. I think it matters a lot. Somebody’s not listening and/or has terribly miscalculated/misjudged here.
Too bad he can’t expand even more.
In trying to find a July 2017 photo of Sandoval (none so far), I ran across this statement from Dave Dombrowski on the decision to DFA Sandoval: “It really came down to us feeling we were not a better club if he was on our club at the major league level.”
I always really enjoy it when a poor student decides to pull themselves together, and manages to accomplish something better than in the past. The only way this happens is if people get second, third, … chances. It is conceivable that Panda has learned his lesson, regrets how he treated the Giants, and might turn this opportunity into something good.
That being said, the casual attention I’ve paid to him at Boston is just about what you cite, that he can’t hit or field at the MLB level anymore. Boston doesn’t eat $45+ million contract remainder if they feel there’s any hope for a turnaround.
So how Sandoval looks in a Rivercats uni, and what he says to the press, and most of all what he does on the field are what matters now. Work effort is the key.
We’ll get Lefty, Crawnik, and others to deliver a full condition report!
It doesn’t matter at all how Sandoval looks in a Rivercats jersey. He will soon be wearing a Giants jersey, no matter how he looks.
Pablo and work effort was an ongoing saga and source of frustration for Giants’ coaches and players. Poor students who work hard and make a genuine effort is not how I would describe Sandoval. Oftentimes, Giants’ coaches and players were working harder than he was. Which didn’t work and never works. Pablo was a poor student with minimal self-discipline, maturity problems, and a mean streak.
Yes to all of that. I wasn’t sorry to see Sandoval leave. I’m just saying sometimes people decide they’ve hit their rock bottom, and want to change. But that’s always state of Missouri stuff: “show me”.
You’re a generous, kind-hearted person, 610nm. I’ve always thought so.
Amen.
Sometimes people are just very good at conning others into thinking they’ve changed and suddenly things are going to be different.
Or in the clubhouse where the food is served.
I thought the articles yesterday with quotes from guys like Cain and Span, about how the team wants to stay together and think the front office has given them some assurances, were interesting. Sabean’s interview with Baggarly last week suggested otherwise.
I get a sense of disconnect, in which the players still think of themselves as a good team having an off year, while the front office and ownership are looking at $$$ and harsh reality. It will be very instructive to see how things go these next ten days or so.
potd
Sabean sounded angry in that interview, with his statement about having this kind of season with these kinds of performances with our payroll.
So bringing back Pablo when the players don’t want him back is Sabean’s revenge on the players? I sure hope not.
It would seem there is a tad of chaos at the top. I suspect the CYA talk has already started.
Yeah, cc. There seems to be chaos and conflict.
Bring bowtie back. Let Neukom sort it out, and usher them into the 21st century baseball world.
Bowties will fix everything!
At least he’s competent, and has a forward looking, analytical POV about baseball, and its operations.
I’m sorry, but if the front office hadn’t given Bochy such a miserable batch of hopeless re-treads to put out on the field repeatedly, maybe their record wouldn’t be quite as putrid as it is.
You want the core to produce? Surround them with other front of the hill, not over and down the hill players they’ve wasted more than half a year on. You want a good team? Put one on the field.
Sabean’s interview is the lone bright spot to this season for me. I have never seen such candor and accuracy in a General Manager’s public assessment of his team before.
I have a few others.
1. The pick-up of Sam Dyson so far is a great story.
2. I’m enjoying the rookie year of Ty Blach. Despite his ups and downs, that’s a durable innings-eater with a good head on his shoulders. He’s going to be valuable for years to come.
3. I WAS enjoying Austin Slater’s ability to grab the LF opportunity.
4. Gorkys telling us all (and the 12 other guys who’ve come and gone) where we can stick it.
Some hopes for the next couple of months:
–I’d like to see more of Kyle Crick.
–I’m hoping they bring Beede up at some point.
–I’d like to see some more bullpen prospects–Tyler Rogers, D.J. Snelten, maybe Moronta if he can get healthy and back to form. I’d also like to see Law right his ship.
–I hope Jarrett Parker gets to come back and have another chance. He’s earned it.
Buster’s walk-off blast in the bottom of the 17th against the Reds was also a highlight for me.
Are you kidding? That says a lot for the season if that is the lone bright spot. There has to be something better. There was so much pablum, bullsh*t and I don’t know what is going on in that article it was astounding. Sure there was candor and accuracy, too bad it gave me no hope that he knows what to do about any of the problems.
There was also a tinge of bitterness.
His bitterness, frustration and anger were good signs that he is not going to take this anymore and he understands the gravity of the situation. At least, that’s how I read it. I liked it.
I thought there was too much external blaming, not enough looking inward.
Trouble is, Baer is where the buck stops.
I wonder if Sabeans definition of inept included the front office.
Good question. I’d have to go back and reread the interview. But a statement to that effect from Sabean doesn’t come to mind.
They could go out and play with brains, spirit and aggressiveness and try to convince someone.
Sandoval is just one guy, but signing him is a disturbing look into how those making the decisions are thinking: no plan, no realization of the extent and nature of the current problems, and a misguided refusal to accept the idea that the “3 in 5” years are over.
Flannery tweeted that he’s going to give his take on Sandoval on tonight’s pre-game, saying “I ain’t afeared.” That might be interesting.
DVR is set!
I imagine it won’t be too different than the stuff he said on MLB Network which, as I mentioned below, was factually all over the place. He did have some interesting personal asides, like him saying that when Sandoval named two guys he would miss (Bochy and Pence), he thought “Man how could I NOT be one of the guys he would miss!?” He sounded quite surprised. So the personal asides were interesting, his comments on actual on field play seemed completely mixed up and inaccurate.
This guy was great.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYiU_JCYtU
Truly unbelievable. Chris Cornell hung himself (broke my damn heart). Chester Bennington sings “Hallelujah” at Chris’ funeral, and today, on Chris’ birthday, Bennington hangs himself.
Oh, so sad. Sad news, TS.
This is really bumming me out.
http://live105.cbslocal.com/2017/07/20/watch-chris-cornell-and-chester-bennington-duet-on-hunger-strike/
One of my fav bands ever. Truly sad.
You’d look spiffy on your beat with that guys ear wear.
My former American Legion first baseman and center fielder are both fighting a wild fire in Merced. A father walking his baby in a stroller was gunned down yesterday and a Central California detective is now charged in a colleague’s death, and we’re arguing about Sandoval coming back.
Sandoval has always been governed by immaturity. Heck pop start Michael Jackson was immature. The group Mettalica was once so immature – they destroyed a NY hotel room and when they got back to SF, Bill Graham said they would never work again if it happened again. The word IMMATURITY manifests itself all around us in society in different ways. There are obese baseball players, obese cops, obese functional members of society. Given all the machinations – well thought of bloggers here on TWG have shown – you would think like all the potential negativity is going to bring the world to an end. I once knew a guy who stopped rooting for ANY and ALL aspects of the 49ers to succeed because a then 28 year old son of an owner became President to his mother who was Principal owner. Most fans when they dispise the owner or admin – RAMP up their affection for the boys/men ON the field – but this fan said NO – I will not because the son is a royal pain in the ass (true) and never lifted a finger his entire life (false).
So now we have Sandoval – who the Giants brought into their ORG at the age of 16 years old. The older he got – the more his immaturity got worse. It is supposed to work the other way around.
Larry Baer went full on in the booth the other night to announce the end of the sell out streak. I imagine Baer and York now will share some commonality – in that they are both going to do something that fans do not agree with.
That said, look to your left and again to your right. There are immature relatives, friends, co-workers and teammates walking among us every minute of the day.
Sandoval upped the ante by telling people at the parade he was leaving, telling people that was not him on the plane to Boston and that he only enjoyed Bochy and Pence’s company.
He apparently is a Big F-Up – but like we use to say about other guys on the roster, “Yea but (I guess) he’s OUR F-Up.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/central-california-detective-charged-in-colleagues-death/ar-BBECrCv
http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/lecture/lec11361/img002.GIF
Bravo
One of his best.
I’m done with him. I will be very disappointed if he ever again dons the Orange and Black.
I don’t think you have anything to worry about, TF62. Even in his stint at Pawtucket this year he couldn’t hit for shit. He’s done.
Prepare to be disappointed and you know what – that is okay, Every person on earth should get a first time second chance regarding the exact human code law that was broken.
People bleed Red. Money is green
In the grand scheme of things, losing Pablo and Angel was no loss to us at all. Pablo has lost his bat and Angel didn’t get any offers that satisfied him. I liked Pablo but if I ever see the “Pagan salute” again it’ll be too soon.
I’m not in disagreement with all of that, HOWEVER, I’m just interested in putting a good team on the field and not rehabilitating aging and immature baseball players. What he does with his life, or not, doesn’t interest me one bit.
The White House is showing visual aids at an off-camera briefing.
Speaking of embarrassing chaos.
Trump got universally shunned at the G-20. Too bad that he’s taking down the rep of the entire country.
Some days it’s just too much. Now that the chump’s thrown Sessions under the bus, events will move faster. Buckle up.
Some days it is too much, overwhelming in fact. But there are hopeful days.
Diane Feinstein today: “Am I concerned? No, I’m not concerned, because if they don’t they’ll be subpoenaed.”
Couldn’t happen to a nicer bigot.
Nunez generally loves his teammates/would love to return in 2018
* Good swing by #28 – Pretty emotional moment when Buster bends down to rip off two pieces of safety gear as he gives the second base bag a knock with his hand.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1624442783/clesf-posey-smacks-a-goahead-pinchhit-double/?game_pk=491510&partnerId=ed-10483738-55341579#
* Bad Hop Magic Wandoo
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1624560883/clesf-dyson-retires-ramirez-to-notch-the-save/?game_pk=491510&partnerId=ed-10483738-55341579#
* Dyson chanelling his inner Jeff Brantley and Brian Wilson
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1624560883/clesf-dyson-retires-ramirez-to-notch-the-save/?game_pk=491510&partnerId=ed-10483738-55341579#
Cleveland’s first baseman kept looking at the ball after it passed him like WTF was THAT??
That PEBBLE fell out of one of Carl Malone’s pants pockets. Definitely changed directions.
BS from Sandoval has already started:
Pablo Sandoval: “I’m waiting for Friday to make a decision, and the Giants are one of my options. I have a few teams interested but I won’t be making a decision until Friday.”
Marly Rivera, ESPN Writer 19hrs ago
That’s just a factual statement.
He fired his brother.
He fired his agent.
Everybody on earth – that is going to eventually die – deserves a second chance for being a big jerk.
No actually they don’t. His career is a litany of one ‘chance’ after another. Maybe it’s time for him to try Japanese or Korean ball.
Pablo’s career with the Giants, then his followup career with the Red Sox, was a cascading “litany of one chance after another.” I cannot imagine how exhausting this must have been for players and coaches. But hey, some brilliant FO guy thinks it’s a bonny idea to put the team through this again.
pablo’s first few years, when he was young, and incredibly athletic, he was able to offset his unfortunate body type. remember, he had amazing hand eye coordination, and i guess that the FO figured it was worth giving him chance after chance, because he was a big part of giving the giants a hell of a 5 year joy ride.
like all good thing, panda’s hacyon days came to an end. his age and weight caught up to him, and he can no longer get by on all the athletic gifts he was given. he’s no longer worth the all the trouble he requires. i hope they pass on panda redux. i hope they get a good prospect or two for noonie, and i’d like a prolonged look at hwang.
Believe it or not, I can no longer get by on my athletic gifts either, stevie. But I’m 67.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/471f9639acb615971ae12c0214dad2272e58000e395e037530da2ad787d673c2.jpg
(Mexican mutts.)
…and probably can play the hot corner about as well as Pablosimo.
Carl Steward talks about Pablo’s past glory days and his age as well, and how Pablo has not aged well:
“Sandoval turns 31 on Aug. 11. But it’s an ancient 31, exacerbated by excessive eating and nightlife. Moreover, it’s been a long time since he was any good.”
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/20/giants-reunion-with-sandoval-ill-timed-lame-and-laughable-at-any-price/
The nightlife factor – forgot about that one. Not pretty either.
Nope.
Disagree, it’s not 100% identical
I wonder, is Larry is ready to give BeWeazy another go?
Cannot find Wilson
Relocated to Thailand
Grant Brisbee says to remember it’s not official yet and provides a glimmer of hope:
“The Giants might have been exploring a Pablo Sandoval reunion because they thought it would be a refreshing sip of nostalgia tea in a lost season, and they might have been surprised at the blowback they’ve received on social media. While it’s an internet truism that the loudest voices absolutely do not have to represent the majority, there might have been enough criticism to make them rethink their cost-benefit analysis.”
I’ll just add: The blowback they’ve also received from players and team employees, which includes coaches.
Now, to identify ‘The Giants’ who came up with this sterling idea and send them on a long cruise.
I really hope one of our intrepid beat reporters can and will ferret out who came up with “this sterling idea.”
Larry Baer
Where’s the link to your interview with Larry Baer?
Larry Baer went into the on air booth with K and K to fall on his sword announcing that the sell out record was over with. His demeanor led me to believe that as long as he could sell one ticket – he would also run the front interference for bring back a former bad boy Giant.
Pablo is clearly on the Forever Giant List.
Sacramento won’t cost the Giants a thing.
If your speculation is correct, this is a terrible miscalculation/misjudgment on Baer’s part.
Tell me. Is this his first one?
The guess that Baer made this decision is speculation.
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