The San Diego Padres are the Kryptonite for Madison Bumgarner. This was another dis-spiriting loss, as opposed to the occasionally spirited loss. Our hero and immortal, the ace of the staff and the man upon whose soldiers mortal Giants fans set their dreams, was reduced to yet another losing mortal pitcher, giving up two more dingers to the likes of Spagenberg and Renfroe, household names they are not. Superman is still without a victory in 2017 and Giants wonder how long this punishment must continue.
The Padres are the kryptonite for our Superman.
Are the Baseball Gods meting out punishment to a city after so much good fortune?
The Giants tease us with a series win at home against a good Cleveland team then stink up the field the next night with their ace on the mound against the lowly Padres.
Baseball is a cruel game.
What’s latest on BCraw? I see Ramirez was DFA’d
well, I know they put him on the 10-day DL…dude is as much the MIP as anyone, and surviving those 10 days is pretty much key to this swirly start
Most Invaluable Player? Most Intrepid Penmanship?
I should have known. It’s ADATT here today.
“Attention Deficit ATT” park?
DUDE. Typed almost the same thing. That’s the most bizarre ASSP ever.
Almost Same Simultaneous Post.
All Dipshits All The Time.
No Fun Zone With Bapah
Sincerely … How much does 26 games mean?
Posey is hitting .354 but missed 8 of those games.
Arroyo just arrived.
It is the usual pain of following the Giants but to be acting like the season should be written off? I do not get that.
Attention Deficit AT&T?
A Dog Always Tries Terribly?
Most Interesting Person?
Most Important Player
spell check = MVP
Hey, I was a little worried about you yesterday.
Do things look any better in the light of a New Day?
A 9-17 stretch can be overcome. Last year the cubbies had a 6-15 stretch. Granted they played great ball around that so it is not a prediction, just an observation.
We have not seen the Giants full starting line-up yet really.
Ha! don’t worry too much….
I am willing to wait and see how the team does if and when Crawford and (maybe) Williamson are playing. The fact that we are trotting out a lineup that has Stubbs and Gorkys daily, while Pence, Posey and Belt have NO power, and Craw is out?
Too, too much pressure on the pitchers.
In the back of my mind, I also think the Bum gut punch left a larger mark than expected in such a veteran group
This isn’t some kind of collective emotional reaction to Bumgarner’s injury. They were bad before he got hurt and bad after.
i didn’t say it was…I said it “left as larger mark than expected”.
They are clearly worse AFTER his injury, and they haven’t had any “German Pearl Harbor” rally whatsoever
Actually, with the way Blach has pitched in his place, they have yet to miss him. That spot in the rotatation hasn’t been the problem, so far.
Never mind…you look at team dynamics much different than I.
It is futile dealing with……
Stubbs/Gorks is stop-gap and testing the waters for a Cody Ross, Andres Torres.
Span is the CF that will return; his defense is up [+2 DRS] and that should not be underrated as part of the problem. Three errors yesterday matters.
Mac will get his chance and then we will know something of what the future is. Parker got 21 AB’s … there is no reason to judge anything yet.
Don’t Worry. Be Happy.
Haak, I like your optimism and I’m board with you. You’re right, we haven’t reallt seen the full starting lineup yet. I want to see how the month of May plays out. If the Giants can somehow, say, go 17-12 this month, that would put them at 26-29 at the end of the month. I think Colorado and Arizona will regress and the G’s will be within 5 games of first place.
It’s a new month. I’m not giving up on our Giants. They can turn this around. Cautiously optimistic.
That seems fair.
Imagine a line-up with healthy guys:
Bench: Hundley, Conor, KT, [Hill DFA’ed], Gorkys [or Calixte], Morse
Blach getting his strength up.
We do not know what that Giants team can do. May is a tough schedule that has to bring out the best in them too.
I was just looking at this. http://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-san-francisco-giants-info/
and saw Joe Panik’s salary. What a bargain! Tie this kid up ASAP.
Closers are the swaggering stars of many a bullpen. They are measured and rewarded by a statistic that may be overrated or mysteriously appropriate.
And baseball is worse off because of the myth of the closer
“The misery continues?” It’s just getting started – check out the schedule in May:
Yep we be in trouble son!
How about the ol’ “Playing Up/Down to Your Opponent” thing?
They played the doggers very tough and May is the test to play up to some hot teams; good sample check if Crawford and Arroyo are side by side for most of it.
I admire your optimism. “You never know.” (J. Andujar) ;o)
On the other hand, there actually are two teams with worse records – Toronto (8-17) and K.C. (7-16) – misery and company and all that. Toronto has blown 8 games:
“8: Blown saves by the Blue Jays. No other team had more than five. Between injuries and a slow start offensively, a LOT has gone wrong for this club en route to an 8-17 record that was nearly the worst April mark in franchise history. But blowing late leads is especially demoralizing. One would have to imagine this gets better for Toronto, because the all-time record for blown saves in a season was 34 by the 2004 Rockies.”
Not good for draft positioning. The Giants need to step it up.
Unlike the NBA or NFL in baseball even a can’t miss (and even that is a 50-50 proposition) high draft pick is at best 2-3 years away from the big leagues and helping the club.
The Giants need some real help, even if it isn’t immediate. Will Clark was in the lineup the year after he was drafted. Posey played only one full minor league season.
I wish Will Clark was on this staff teaching them how to hit…all day, every day. Not some honorary gig
LOL. You have to be Clark to hit like Clark. genetics.
Stands to reason that they are hitting like Meulens
Strong POTD candidate.
I’m surprised Bonds hasn’t offered any hitting advice now that he’s back in the fold.
The May schedule should take care of that.
Ok, 29 (!) games in May – say they exceed low expectations and play .333 baseball – that would be 10-19 – a 19-36 record.
Overall .345 baseball! Vámonos, muchachos!
Lets talk about how bad the golden boy Buster Posey sucks on offense! This guys production is absolutely horrific and we should mention this guy a little bit more before he and Bochy decides that he needs another day off i mean this guy is terrible!
I feel your pain Slik but the guy got concussed at a terrible time when he was hitting well.
I know it is 90% Singles but he is hitting .354.
Enjoy the sunshine today and smile through the pain and see what May brings right?
I understand the injury but his batting avg is doing what for the offense? Nothing! It is one of the softest 357 averages that you will ever see u cannot argue that. This roster is seriously in trouble
I am super frustrated too. It’s really nice that he’s hitting for high average, but 1) there aren’t a lot of guys getting on base ahead of him; and 2) when he DOES come up with men on base, he is not producing. Three RBIs is one good day, and even with a week out from being beaned, it is a ridiculously low number for RBIs for a player like Posey. Again, not all his fault, but he is definitely not producing.
Belt hits in front of him and he DOES get on base. There was one game in the homestand where Belt was on four times and Posey didn’t even advance him a base once.
That hadn’t occurred to me – effects of the concussion.
In the four games before the concussion he was 7-14 with 2 Dbl and 1 HR
A few more .350 hitters on this team and we’d be pretty good
I know you mean he should be hitting for more power…and he had some dud AB’s in key spots. I don’t think he should be counted on as our power guy, but in this Wet Newspaper lineup, he is.
Pence, Belt, and a Morse/Williamson combo are better served for power. Let Buster hit .350, have other dudes supply the pop…we got no “other dudes”
Except … We just want know why Posey, and others, have lost it in what should be their prime years.
No easy answers, but the concussion is likely playing some role
Buster and Hunter Tomlinson having a hard time putting the X in XBH.
(Sincere, I know you are thinking of that KISS “Laid in the Shade” album, but get your mind out of the gutter)
His bat blends right in with Manfred Mans the Roaring Silence. For a guyhitting over 300, that bat sure is silent.
I’m not ruling out that Posey is still feeling the effects of that concussion, which may be part of the issue here. He deserves the benefit of the doubt at least.
But … Like most of the team, his funk goes back into last year, so it’s a huge concern
It’s a new month and I’m trying anything to get this team out of its funk. Here are the new lucky shoes received this morning https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6d548c133ee570e644454454022b6f400c0155f6f79f68c821155bd7b770ee30.jpg
OK, let’s go with that. Surf Maui’s shoes lead to a sweep in LA, and a 20-10 record in May (without looking up the number of games). But only if your socks are orange enough!
Those are some sweet kicks Surf.
Stop beating around the bush, kill chickens.
Will Bapah pan fry them afterwards??
It can’t hurt the ask. My guess BBQ.
These shoes have GOT to have some wins in them!
I wore my Under Armour Curry orange black shoes to opening day and they won — I think it might have been their last win at home — :). They clearly work better than Surf Maui’s shoes. Also if they continue to stink late into the summer I will not wear my lucky shoes so they can get a better pick. They also will have to make a decision in July on whether to trade Cueto or convince him to resign before free agency.
The worst move would be for the Giants to be 15 games under 500 in mid-July and just hope that Cueto comes back and then have him leave in free agency for nothing. I think his contract is written that if he opts out that they cannot offer him the slot value for free agents — i.e. no draft pick compensation.
are those NB Vazee’s?
You’ll see on Monday? Or Sunday at Finnerty’s ? Or both
On the brightside, MadBum wouldn’t make a difference right now, and at least he’s not Noah Syndergaard.
When we come home from Citifield on the 10th, leaving with Jay Bruce and leaving behind Johnny Cueto might be just what both teams need most.
Excited for the draft already?
Giants have the 19th pick and just over 3 million to sign some young stud. Here’s an early look at the amateur prospect board. There’s a lot of Vandy on this list, and some Virginia too. Wouldn’t it be nice if Kendall fell? Or some rising stud OF hitter was there for the taking?
Get with the program.
Do people get excited for a 19th pick in a baseball draft? Should they? Has 2017 already come to that?
Do people that closely follow farm systems and prospects get excited for the draft? Yes.
Does the average baseball fan? Probably not.
Has the 2017 season come to looking beyond the 2017 season? If you’re not there, you’re getting there.
I’ve enjoyed this Q&A, how about you?
This was between two ferns!!!!
The 19th pick could be exciting, but if they keep playing like this a top 5 pick may be in the cards for next year — they have done well with those really high picks.
In baseball? No. But in the NFL they get excited for the 7th round draft pick. Headline story on ESPN over NBA and NHL playoffs.
It is strange but as I pay more attention I am thinking; “We are piled up and congested with good prospects at every spot.” I know it is not true but I am so focused on the five guys at every position that are lined up already.
Maybe catcher but I love me some Aramis MyGuy Garcia.
They may have some good prospects in the B- to C range that do good things and matriculate to AAA with some guys making the show in some capacity, but it’s not easy finding the high impact, gonna make a difference in the show caliber of talent, the A to B types.
Did I ever tell you my dad was a gold miner?
He taught me to pan for gold along the streams of NorCal but I did not have the patience, of course, until years later. I think that is part of my gene pool that says, if you look in some obscure place you can find what everyone else is missing.
I believe the scouting/scoring/grading system is “generally right”; but we know it misses many too. Was Panik highly graded? Probably since he was a #1 pick and had some success. Same for TL55, Posey and Bum. Arroyo fits that too right? So it “generally works”.
But then along comes a Duffy. And others in other systems that you probably know better than me. Nothing is 100% in this realm.
Very solid hit tool on Panik – and 1st round pick. He was B prospect which came down a bit because of middling performance at AA.
Duffy’s hit tool erupted. He was a C+ prospect but probably more realistically a B- type. Still very much in the utility mold, unless a permanent spot open. He is much more what he was like in the 2nd half of ’15 and to a degree what happened last year.
I am from a historic California gold mining family from 1850-1860s.. I live on part of what was my great grandfather’s mine originally purchased and operated in the 1860s.
My Dad prospected as an obsession and recovered gold in a gravel operation mid 50s to mid 70s.
Same time frame for my dad but he did dredging up north … Yuba River.
SFG has guys playing out of position and guys that would not be playing for any other MLB team. So, we are seeing a lot of bad baseball. Some really good pitching just being wasted.
Joe Ritzo at San Jose Giants wrote: “Not just a tough month for the major league team…#SFGiants affiliates with the lowest cumulative winning % in MiLB for April (37-55, .402)”
But WeGuys know there is a good pool of talent there that will rise to the top. It is a Culling Process and it takes painful times like this.
The SFG do not have as deep a farm system at the R level when compared to most other mlb teams.
All teams have AAA, AA, A+, A, and SS teams (for SFG Sacramento, Richmond, San Jose, Augusta, and Salem-Keiser.
The Giants have R teams in Arizona and the Dominican Republic.
Like the SFG, CLE, COL, MIA, PIT, SEA, and WAS have two R teams.
Teams with three R farm teams are: BAL, BOS, ATL, CHIW, CHIC, DET, MIL, MIN, PHI, OAK, SDP, TEX, STL, TOR
Teams with four R farm teams are: ARI, CIN, HOU, LAD, NYM, LAA, KCR, TBR.
Team with 5 R farm teams is the NYY.
What this seems to mean is that the SFG have a smaller filter than most teams in finding entry level talent to stock the rosters of higher level minors.
An item I have not investigated but surmise is that the SFG have maintained a higher proportion of former mlb and career AAAA players at their AAA associate.
So the SFG do have a chronically relatively weak minor league system, Alas.
are you just figuring this out? When all signs have been pointing to this for about 5 years. The best talent in the system since then has been Panik, Arroyo and Beede (and two of those are up with the team.
The Giants don’t draft as well as other teams in the lower rounds and don’t spend / look to signing international talent as other teams do.
They really blew it internationally when there were no caps on that spending — the Red Sox and Cubs went crazy stocking talent during that time. Then when they do go over slot they need to go way over in those years, which they didn’t do the last time they went over their allotted pool.
and the Yankees, the Royals, the Cards……Even the Dbacks did well with Tomas.
Obviously the SFG have maintained a relatively weak minor league system.
Where on this log has anyone else specifically noted the relative paucity of entry level players to filter for higher minor league teams because of a minimum number of R teams?
All things being equal (and 25 players per team, actually more go through system per team), the SFG have 50 players to filter through R baseball for higher level minors.
Correspondingly, most other teams have 75 or 100 players and the NYY 125.
It would be interesting to see the number of and investment in scouts by mlb franchise.
The SFG fans have a good question to ask why the SFG slack on farm system especially when like “wealthy” franchises like the NYY, LAD, CHIC, NYM, etc invest in and operate more R teams. Player salary is modest at best in the equation.
Hopefully there are better things to come in May. After Kershaw at least.
The main story in Peter King’s MMQB is him in the 49ers draft room for the three days. Pretty great read if you care.
Khris Davis seems like an interesting target in the trade market. Knowing Billy Beane, t shouldn’t cost much to bring Davis in.
Knowing Billy Beane, he is flipping off the Giants in any attempt to pry anything of value from Oakland…he will NOT help SF in any way whatsoever
I’m not sure he traded away Donaldson for pennies because he wanted to “help” the Jays. Throw some names from our farm system and he’ll jump on them. Anyone but Beede
have to have “names” to throw in don’t you?
I would throw in Mac, and even Gregorio
no one wants Mac trust me. He would be a throw in, not the meat of the trade.
Honestly literally anyone but Beede. I don’t know our farm too well but I would be fine giving up Slater or Shaw as well. Anything for a PROVEN talent
true. And I would not worry about Beede being moved. Me thinks he is a starter by September this season.
It’s definitely looking that way right now
You don’t understand Beane, then.
He doesn’t cut the same deals with the Giants. It’s absolutely, totally, completely different
Correct. Beane is obsessed with the Giants and it has only gotten worse since we won all those rings. He has an inferiority complex and a jealousy issue. It’s pretty obvious.
That’s too bad. It’s getting clearer by the day that this team needs to make an addition somehow.
He dumped Donaldson because Donaldson offended Beane and the GM had to show him who is boss. It was related to Donaldson wanting time off and Beane telling him to either play or go on the DL. It appears Donaldson was way out of line as a fight ensued. Beane was 100% right in my book though I was not there to see all the facts. Every GM knew about this altercation and Beane was dealing from a position of weakness, not strength, in negotiations.
For further reading: https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/report–josh-donaldson-clashed-with-billy-beane-before-trade-005754140.html
That’s a more accurate assessment of the possibility of some folks getting along in this forum.
Nothing personal, but Billy Beane has an acknowledged distaste for SF.
Loved him when he was available the off season before he signed with the A’s.
traded for a hot hitting catching prospect that busted after the trade. But possilby attainable with Susac and another piece at the time.
Maybe, just maybe Albert had it right…
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.”
My imagination tells me that throughout the summer ‘our’ Giants will succeed in putting in a run at overcoming the largest deficit between them and the next legitimate foe. The accumulated knowledge of those on the blog doesn’t really scare me if in fact their saber knowledge,back of baseball cards and slash lines tell them something different.
As far as anybody using the price of admission to see a ‘product unworthy’, try going to the Yard to see if a baseball game breaks out. The Giants cannot show up and play themselves, that is called spring training back fields – games. I worked a half-ass job for 32 years from 5 am to 1 pm -giving up any and all overtime and skipping lunch – in order to be at the HS program of choice where I was head coaching or assisting. 6th/7th period was when the student-athletes got out of school for practice or games. With my salary from work and Per Diem from coaching – there was NEVER I game that I could not afford to go to if I wanted to. Fortunately from about 1962–1970) those early Stick day prices were mitigated by Davenport leaving Section 9 tickets for us. From 1980 til now – there is never a game that I wanted to attend that was out of reach. Go watch the entire game. Sure, root for ‘OUR’ team but there is great talent to be seen from the other dugout.
So, Albert Einstein and I will still be rooting for The Rook, BB9, Crawls35, Full Throttle, Big Daddy Sugar Cain and the others come August. I imagine I will be joined by Bapah, JStreet, Matthew, 610, Deer_Rob, Speier, SurfMaui, paul in PV, Sgbssfg, Mavo and ***of course about a dozen others***….To the others there are 15 AL teams and 14 other NL teams…. to root for.
You better pray just as loudly for an evaluation staff who understands predictive metrics of skill sets, and depends a little less on girl friend looks, and tobacco chewing talent.
Why surely sir…. that’s always implied.
It might be overtly stated instead of implied. They’ve botched it completely lately.
24 games in ….
Corrected see Giantc = 26
A John Shea Repost: Gotta Love a Mom who buys The Science of Hitting by Ted Williams, reads it, absorbs it and ‘puts it into practice’. “Get On The Fence, Christian”
If the Giants wanted an outfielder who can hit with a little pop, I’m still on board with acquiring Corey Dickerson from the Rays. He leads Tampa in six offensive catergories: HR (6), SLG. (636), OPS (1.015; which is in top 10 of MLB), 2B (9), AVG. (.330).
He is a left-handed however, but is hitting .467 vs. LHP starters and .301 vs. RHP starters and has a 1.4 WAR.
The money is well within the Giants reach. Dickerson is making $3.025 million this year, is arb-eligible in 2018 and 2019 and will be a FA in 2020. Who the Giants would trade for him, if they made a trade, is up in the air.
I don’t think the Rays are taking any calls from the Giants anytime soon…
and why would the Rays want to hand him to the Giants? They are almost 500 and have a 9-4 record at home.
They have more hope to reach post season than the Giants do right now.
Hey, it was worth a shot.
but you have to think why would the Rays want to do this, they are in a tough division and want to be competitive and actually have some good young talent. Why would a team like that just hand over a young stud to the Giants right? Unless they need starting pitching and we would dangle Cueto to them.
Like I said, it was worth a shot. It may not even happen.
What is your take on Gift Ngoepe
Maybe the Giants are getting lucky that Cueto’s contract is up now.
Ah but it isn’t … only if Cueto says it is.
So VERY homegrown (again) https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ca8d27634a5b2eab2adc27d7fec071fd7e18284c44e52b3270b6a06207452430.jpg
Actually that group is 1-1 against the doggers.
You pontificated recently how much ball you’ve played and watched (at your youthful age) and so you should know that the season is long and that the NL West has certain teams that will not hold up throughout the season.
Baseball season runs into Halloween and thus I think half the time you’re just selling ‘wolf tickets’ so somebody else can overly stimulate your mind about sports…. 😉
Howling at the Moon —- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsy4P9Cw90Q
Tremendous talent – the man from Oakland who did the statue. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/19041d8bee300f769e1fa35b233a4b12e4689a153209f16bb646b1a80c4479b6.jpg
I am far from ready to give up on the season as bad as things appear but see the Mets as the other side in a major trade.
Cueto greatly disappointed me in saying he would rather finish his career in the AL. So Cueto is somewhat the lame duck.
Nunez has been a disappointment. initially I thought he was misused.
I don’t want nor think Pence is a trade chip (without the SFG paying a portion of salary) as he is in a decline due to age and injuries. But Pence is still the best OF and an intangible leader of team and fan favorite.
The Mets are having problems especially with Syndergaard being on DL and Reyes not performing.
Perhaps the Mets can be relieved of some young talent and the SFG clear space for younger players and save on salary?
I have not yet looked specifically at what the Mets have that the SFG might want (or need).
Cueto created a problem for Evans…an NL team will be less likely than an AL team to trade for him…he can still be a mercenray for an NL team, of course, but he tied Bobby’s fumbling hands a bit more
The bigger problem for Evans is that so far, Cueto has kinda sucked. 😩
i honestly don’t think that is truly an issue…this league knows the guy, and he is nails, had a GREAT 2016, and is playing in a funky situation this season.
To me, he is a moody as they get.
As to Cueto’s apparent suckitude, yes, the peripheral stats tell that story in this relatively small sample size. His FIP is 5.12, in lock-step with the 5.1 ERA. His K rate is down from 8.1/9 IP last year to 7.2, the BB rate is up to 3/9 from 1.8. Home run rate has tripled to 1.8 per nine.
So yeah, he’s got to find his groove to either help the Giants get back in the .500 domain or to bring back a B+ caliber prospect.
I agree with you.
Cueto has presented the Evans and the SFG FO with the position that Cueto can only be traded as a mercenary for 2017. All things being equal I would like tom see the SFG extend Cueto except the salary is probably too high for a pitcher with his age and mileage.
Cueto did the SFG FO and fandom no favors in his statement regards his future. Alas.
BTW I specifically do not consider Pence a trade chip.
Untouchables for trade talks should be Arroyo, Crawford, Posey, Belt, Panik, and Beede.
Earlier on this blog I described a hypothetical trade of MadBum to get Trout; any trade talk now of MadBum is senseless. If MadBum had not been hurt, he would also be an untouchable save for a Trout/Franchise-level talent.
Dirt bike or not, Mad Bum is a SF institution…he goes nowhere.
I agree about MadBum as an institution, he is one of my top ten all time favorite Giants.
There was much gnashing of my teeth when Matt Williams was traded to Cleveland and that turned out a great trade for the SFG.
The Cepeda and Perry trades totally sucked.
It could be good news that NYY and BOS both are in the hunt. Who knows what they might overpay for Cueto?
NYY right there with HOU, IMO.
A potent outfield prospect perhaps.
I strongly feel that Houston is going to make a bold, go for the title move, and starting pitching will be their target. Cueto makes a lot of sense for them and they have the right variety of prospects to interest the Giants.
as for the Mets, they could be a southbound train and look to sell as well. But if they are buyers…
Nimmo and Lyndsay could be names of interest to Giants. Lagares could probably use a change of scenery if they want to replace him with Nimmo instead. Here’s a look a their farm:
Nimmo and Lyndsay look good as not far from ready OF but I would like another prospect ort wo for Cueto and Reyes. Lagares my be CF but is also already proved to be a mediocre mlb ballplayer and is too old to be considered a prospect.
HOU has put together a talented young team and solid contender for WS.
Big Melon Bochy IMO doesn’t look healthy. Milky-white complexion, Drawn and Gaunt. Walking into his office at the Latrine today – Pavs – Baggs and the ‘Shoe’ ought to be able to figure out the mood of the 25+ headed monster called El Gigantes. Wonder what Boch is playing on the music box. Is it:
(1) Deuling Banjos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhnAZFR1po
(2) Patsy Cline https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYtrGjJOMpE
(3) Van https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f00L6OBYJP4
(4) Waylon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d9DfnJwRNk
(5) Cee Lo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QodGtTU69uQ
My vote’s number 5
i agree clutch with boch not looking healthy. i’m sure his dr’s have told him given his own heart issues, and his family heart history that inorder for him to have a healthy life along with excersise/good eating it is also vital to limit stress; clearly hes in the wrong profession.
I’ve thought he hasn’t looked well ever since he returned from his hospital procedure. Of course, it just might be how badly the team has played.
I think it is starting to actually show via his family DNA background. #sad
I think everyone needs to accept that Beede and Arroyo are the only young players the Giants have who have any significant trade value. That’s a big part of the problem.
this was something I alluded to with an absurdly illogical post last night or this morning, I forget which.
Once you promote your top prospects, they sort of become ingrained in your future plans and much less likely to be seen as barterable goods. Once your #1 and #2 prospects are off your Top Prospect list, the pickings get slim. Only if one the promoted top prospects is at a position of strength or redundancy would he be seen as someone who could be dealt – similar to what happened with Duffy.
But let’s get real, the Giants are looking much more like sellers than buyers at this point. Buying a solution to the team’s problems right now seems extremely far-fetched.
That is not stupid stuff: presumably Arroyo and Blach are MLB GIants now, never to see AAA prospect lists again. Tomlinson is someone I’d trade, though.
Perhaps I’m dumb, but I don’t swallow the prevailing logic that a team which is stumbling must disassemble itself. Sometimes teams get stuck in the rut of trading prospects soon after they reach the bigs (Oakland), whereas hanging on to your Paniks and Crawfords and Bumgarners means there’s a solid core to build upon.
This team would look a lot better with a medium level OF (obtained by trading Nunez) and also having Williamson up and hitting a bit. That’s really not an impossible wish, is it?
Says the PhD in Chemistry!
Re-tool is the operative phrase and the desired path in my estimation from my humble BA in Psychology mind with enough biology credits for a minor 🙂
Re-tool around a solid core, which the Giants would still have in place. So maybe Cueto fetches a very solid OF prospect and winter free agency nets a relatively big OF bat as well.
How about a trade for Andrew McCutchen from Pitt?
Trade Cueto and Nunez and a prospect for McCutchen and a prospect.
Giants pay Cueto’s 2017 salary (about $22 million) and $7.5 million 2018 buyout of options (or toward salary I Cueto stays with Pitt. Pitt pays McCutchen’s 2017 salary ($14 million). McCutchen has a $14.74 million team option for 2018 with a $1 million buyout.
The SFG would essentially get McCutchen for a net of about $14 million of sunk costs for Cueto ( a lame duck or very expensive player, albeit excellent) and Nunez. The trade of prospects would be to find better balance in the respective systems and to make interesting.
McCutchen can play CF and is only 30. If he does not work out, the SFG pay the $1 million buyout, or otherwise give a contract extension of less burden than that of Cueto. I think that McCutchen is in a career lull; he may not re-establish his past but he is far better than what the SFG have in immediate future.
McCutchen is a good human being, and I’d be glad to have him onboard. I too think he’s got some ball left in him – certainly would outperform Span, who would in turn be a plausible 4th OF.
Span is OK but not an everyday CF nor lead off hitter given age and injuries.
But as I have typed at TWG, the SFG are a team that can give 4 OFs regular work.
I like McCutchen as a ball player.
All the more reason the Giants should be thinking in the opposite direction, trade-wise.
What they should be at least considering is trading established players for prospects.
That’s what I meant. At this point, I think it makes no sense to trade top prospects for stopgaps (e.g., Jay Bruce).
But I’m pretty sure most fans wouldn’t like to see someone like Panik or Crawford traded.
It might have been you earlier, but here is where the crossroads come: this team has ridden a certain method to ongoing success.
There appear two ways out: bring up those who MAY produce, but do so ealrier than the normal Parker or Williamson method, OR trade the veteran non-core guys and take what you can get (and the core is shrinking…). I would consider Pence (I love ya, buddy,but..), Samardzija or Moore, Cueto, Span (brings nothing back), Nunez (yesterday, please), and a few no-return relievers like Kontos, Gearrin…
Pence might bring back as much as Span or Nunez, which is to say not much.
The guys that could bring a nice return are the players most don’t want to trade: Bumgarner, Posey, Belt, Panik, Crawford, Arroyo and Moore. Okay, most would be fine with trading Moore and plenty would be fine with trading Belt. Strickland is probably another one that could be attractive to some teams at the deadline.
If we trade Belt, would it end the blog wars over Belt? Probably not!
There could be plenty of Duvall-like arguments about all the good things Belt was doing with his new team.
Trade him to Houston, he will hit 45 jacks. We will go nuts, and Peter can carry my torch.
It would be a big mistake to trade Belt unless he was immediately blocking a young home grown power hitting 1B.
Despite some shade being thrown here at Derek Law, he’s really good and still young and cheap–cheaper than Strickland. I bet there are plenty of teams that would be happy to get him after his excellent rookie season.
True. I could see that as well. Teams are always looking for bullpen help at the break, so anyone pitching well at the time might have value.
Well, had there been any inkling toward trading Bumgarner for a big return, that’s on hold I’d say until at least the offseason. He has to come back healthy and prove he’s the same pitcher.
It doesn’t make much sense to me to trade Panik or Arroyo, two young, talented guys who are pre-arbitration and inexpensive. Same with Moore, unless you were just so sure you could backfill the rotation from your own system that you could spare him over the next couple of years.
Posey, Crawford, and Belt are the guys in the middle–not young but not old, and definitely not cheap. Posey and Craw have full no-trades, and Belt has a partial one.
You have to have a strategy that goes beyond “dump everyone and see what you get.” Part of it has to be who’s your core for the future. Look at the Braves–they dumped just about everyone except Freddie Freeman. And I bet they’re glad they kept him.
I thought it was funny to see Jay Bruce near the top of the leaderboard for 1B WAR.
… which means either ride this out, or trade some of our older, tradeable players for some young talent. I’m not sure the exact moment in a season when a team does it, and i know the team is “within 7 1/2” , but the season – by the day – looks worse and worse.
If Crawford is injured for a longer period, then ALL bets are all the way off
Only a trade that would hurt would be able to bring back a significant return. They could obviously get something for Cueto, but it would be limited because he’d most likely be a rental.
Depends if he’s rolling. If healthy and looking every bit a front of rotation he can command at least a B level prospect, possibly B+. This is Arroyo or Beede or better level of prospect BTW.
A bigger problem is that there is no clear definition of the problem. Is this all a result of having a black hole in one position? Is it a management problem or an expectation problem? Is the lack of scoring the problem? or is it lack of great middle relief?
I’d say problem #1 is the lack of a viable outfield–including (a) no LF to speak of (b) three dreadful CFs, one of whom is injured and (c) a RF who could go down with an injury any day now, as history shows.
The infield is fine, the catching is fine, the rotation is still the strength of the team even without Bumgarner for a couple months, and the bullpen will likely be fine–or at least there are several options in the system to try. But the lack of outfielders means that any given day, there are 2-3 spots in the lineup that are just white flags. You can have one, but not three.
This is assuming that Crawford comes back sooner rather than later–fingers crossed.
and then you add the issues of the outfield constantly being shifted around for various reason, but there is no consistency and likewise in the bullpen. Yes they are pro athletes, but consistency, is one of the key ingredients for top teams no matter what sport.
I was hoping they’d cement Arroyo at 3B (roving Nunez around) but having him always play SS until Crawford returns is kind of like that. Since Nunez is probably better at 3B than he is at SS. Arroyo has enough stuff to adjust to, without moving positions too much.
Arroyo can handle it. I’d put him at SS until Craw is back. Nunez is a dreadful SS.
But not every other day in the other position!
Agreed. I’d just have Arroyo play SS and switch between Gillaspie and Nunez at third. When Craw gets back, Arroyo’s the everyday 3B.
back down to learn CF until Nunez is traded
He a natural IFer. No bueno.
The F.O. has had this problem for 2 seasons, and looked the other way. Chickens finally came home to roost, big-time.
If I could fix one thing it would be the hitting. Nothing is more unappealing to watch/ listen to than a team that cannot hit. I can’t enjoy defense on the radio, I can kind of enjoy good pitching but there is really little entertainment value in a team that cannot score. No scoring renders good pitching and defense moot, eliminating most of the conflict and all of the drama from a game. Sure you could argue that bad starters could destroy a game just as easily, but if the hitters are good enough atleast there will be action. I think the problem is a system wide inability to draft and develop above average hitters.
Earlier this year, we thought we just had a LF problem, but you’re right, it’s an OF problem. Pence gives it everything all the time, and who couldn’t like him. Great guy and what a battler! But he’s increasingly fragile. He’s also a rhythm player — when he’s in a good rhythm with the bat, he can go on a nice tear. He’s not in that good rhythm all that much any more. So, yeah, why is the run production on this team so poor? Well, you can start by looking at the OF.
There is an overall lack of talent in the minor leagues. The parade of prime DFA candidates that have been part of the 25 man this season is proof of that. Now that Arroyo is up, there isn’t a single minor league hitter that’s making a great impression. There might be some minor league pitchers that have a chance of doing something, but none can be considered can’t miss. A few days ago, I think it was Lefty that made a comparison to the Phillies of a few years ago, who got a little older and quickly went from great to bad. They might be at a crossroads here.
Here’s what I wonder:
They call up Stubbs. They may call up Ruggiano.
Is that because there isn’t talent on the farm, or the organization is unbelievably averse to calling up young unless they get bashed over the head with an Arroyo?
This thought is sill y but sometimes it seems in Bochy and the bullpen and the FO in calling up players is that the choice tends to 2nd best to keep the best in reserve for the future.
Take yesterday: They decide to jettison Neil Ramirez, and who do they call up? Their own former first-rounder Kyle Crick or stud AA closer Reyes Moronta, both of whom are on their 40-man roster already? Nope: They call up (again) someone else’s cast-off (like, um, Neil Ramirez) because he has an opt-out date coming up. It’s about inventory rather than actually promoting the best possible candidate.
The problem is too fold, they don’t believe in their talent and they are always trying to go for the playoffs so they can’t give a guy a chance to struggle and learn. They go with the tested (and failed) guys because the manager likes them and theoretically they are closer to breaking through (see Adres Torres).
Sometimes it is middle relief coughing up a couple runs, sometimes it is the starters giving up the big inning. The Bottom line though is the lack of scoring. In thier past 14 games they have scored 5 runs 1 time and 4 runs 3 times. They are not going to win many games scoring 3 runs or less 70% of the time no matter how good or how bad the pitching is.
Last year would you have said, Susac, Mejia, Bickford, Fox, Santos? Maybe some here would have.
Sure it took a few of those combined but they brought Smith and Nunez.
Duffy, two years out of the system brought a #3 Starting Pitcher.
I have no interest in this trade talk; it is too early for me.
I have not given up on 2017 nor most of the core SFG players nor even Bochy yet (but Bochy has a health concern).
Talking trade passes the time.
I am disappointed that Cueto signaled his future as my druthers were for him to continue excellence and retire a SFG.
Smith and Nunez are supporting players. They need young guys who have the potential to be cornerstones.
Reporter: What will you do on your off days in Utah?
Steph Curry: I won’t be riding a dirt bike.
You tell me who’d look good in SF. Not all will be available. Lorenzo Cain stands out, not the perfect age, but FA is a far from perfect way to address team needs.
Michael Brantley (31) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Melky Cabrera (33)
Rajai Davis (37)
Jarrod Dyson (33)
Curtis Granderson (37)
Chris Heisey (33)
Matt Holliday (38)
Hyun Soo Kim (30)
Jon Jay (33)
J.D. Martinez (30)
Cameron Maybin (31)
Daniel Nava (35)
Colby Rasmus (31)
Michael Saunders (31) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Justin Upton (30) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $88MM on his contract
Jayson Werth (39)
Chris B. Young (34)
Lorenzo Cain (32)
Rajai Davis (37)
Jarrod Dyson (33)
Craig Gentry (34)
Carlos Gomez (32)
Austin Jackson (31)
Jon Jay (33)
Andrew McCutchen (31) — $14.75MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Colby Rasmus (31)
Ben Revere (30)
Melvin Upton Jr. (33)
Jose Bautista (37) — $17MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Carlos Beltran (40)
Jay Bruce (31)
Melky Cabrera (33)
Jarrod Dyson (33)
Andre Ethier (36) — $17.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Carlos Gonzalez (32)
Curtis Granderson (37)
Franklin Gutierrez (35)
Chris Heisey (33)
J.D. Martinez (30)
Andrew McCutchen (31) — $14.75MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Daniel Nava (35)
Michael Saunders (31) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Seth Smith (35)
Justin Upton (30) — Can opt out of the remaining four years, $88MM on his contract
Jayson Werth (39)
Chris B. Young (34)
If they keep going like this, there’s no point in trading for anyone in their 30s, or probably any other established big leaguer.
or buying via Free Agency – that’s the winter free agent crop above, which also a good shorthand for players that might be available via trade this July.
They don’t need any of that.
Those all look like band aids for a leak that’s too big for that plan
Yeah Parker has had his 21 AB’s … time to give up on him.
Parker and Williamson running out of rope this year. Time to put up #’s and prove out.
Generally speaking, old guys. The team may need to go young instead (somehow)
I like McCutchen and Cain. Both can play CF too.
I rarely listen to these, but both A.P. and Joe P. are very real in this – the Gold Glove stuff is really good:
From Umpires.org and Titled “No Right Way”
Written by Rich Marazzi
There are times in the game of baseball when the fielder has the right of way and it’s the responsibility of the runner to avoid the fielder such as when a fielder is in the act of fielding a ground ball or a fly ball. Then there are times when the runner has the right of way and it’s the responsibility of the fielder to relinquish space to the runner such as when a runner is approaching a base and the fielder is not in possession of the ball or in the act of receiving a throw. And there are times when both the fielder and the runner have the right of way which is the primary focus of this column.
When a batted or bunted ball is front of the plate and the runner is attempting to go to first while the fielder is attempting to make the play, both have the right of way and there should be no call. The same is true if a catchable thrown ball pulls a fielder off the base and the fielder collides with an advancing runner.
One of the most historic plays in World Series history occurred in Game Three of the 1975 Fall Classic played between the Boston Red Sox and Cincinnati Reds. The Reds were batting in the bottom of the tenth with the score tied 5-5 and Cesar Geronimo on first base with no outs. Ed Armbrister bunted the ball in front of the plate. Sox catcher Carlton Fisk charged to field it and collided with Armbrister who was headed toward first base. Fisk picked up the ball and threw wild to second base with the ball ending up in centerfield. When the smoke cleared the Reds had runners on second and third and no outs. Later in the inning Joe Morgan singled home the winning run.
Red Sox manager Darrell Johnson argued that Armbrister interfered with Fisk but plate umpire Larry Barnett judged the play a “no call” based on the idea that both the fielder and the runner both had the right to be where they where. At the time the play occurred, the only place where this explanation could be found was ironically in the “Special Instructions to Umpires” for the National League. Barnett was an American League umpire but called the play the National League way. Subsequently, the interpretation of this kind of play was pirated from the top secret “Special Instructions to Umpires” to the regular rule book.
You can view this play by going to You Tube: “Fisk/Armbrister Play 1975 WS.”
Regarding dual “Right of Way” plays, the following play is one of the most intriguing I’ve ever seen. It took place on June 12, 2011, in the deciding Game Three of the NCAA college baseball Super Regional in Austin, Texas where the University of Texas and Arizona State matched-up.
In the top of the fourth inning the Sun Devils were leading 2-1 with Joey DeMichele on first and Zach Wilson at the plate with a 3-2 count and one out. DeMichele took off with the pitch that was called “Ball Four.” Longhorns’ catcher Jacob Felts threw down to second base where the ball deflected off second baseman Jordan Etier’s glove and continued onto right center field allowing DeMichele to advance to third base.
The plate umpire called interference on Wilson, who while exiting the batter’s box en route to first, apparently impeded Felts when he made his throw. Wilson was called out for interference and DeMichele was returned to first. Instead of having runners on first and third with one out, Arizona State had a runner on first and two outs.
Sun Devils coach Tim Esmay argued the call but did not protest claiming a misinterpretation of the rules. Texas went on to win the game 4-2 and advance to the College World Series for a record 34th time.
Esmay had every right to file a formal protest since, in my opinion, this was a misinterpretation of the rules that could have affected the outcome of the game. I think he should have requested that the call be reviewed by the protest protocol set in place. At the time, during tournament play if a coach challenged a ruling, the four umpires met with the site director and a representative from the NCAA. But apparently Esmay did not challenge the call. I attempted to reach Esmay but was told by an official at the University that nobody will discuss the play. Wow!
So, did the ump make the right call?
Because the batter was awarded first base on a base-on-balls, he has every right to exit the box. And the catcher has every right to throw to second base even if he hears the umpire yell, “Ball Four,” since there is the possibility that the runner may overslide the base despite the fact the runner had an automatic base award as did the batter. Because of the automatic “Ball Four” base award for the batter, the inadvertent interference, should have been ignored since the automatic base award, in my opinion, should supersede the interference. In essence, as long as neither party intentionally interfered, no call should have been made. Wilson should have been allowed to go to first base and DeMichele should have been allowed to stay at third base since the ball is not dead in such situations because the interference is nullified by the base on balls.
In defense of all those involved, the playing rules on all levels should be more explicit when covering this situation. The rule book should clearly state that in such scenarios, the automatic base award supersedes the interference call. In the above play you can’t fault the batter-runner or the catcher to be where they were at the time of the alleged violation since they were both doing their jobs.
As stated above, when a fielder who is in the act of receiving a wide throw that carries the fielder into the base path of the runner resulting in a collision, no call should be made as long as the ball is catchable. Let’s see what happened when the Pittsburgh Pirates hosted the Milwaukee Brewers on Sept. 4, 2016.
In the top of the third inning, the Brewers had Orlando Arcia on first base and two outs when Hernan Perez hit a sharp grounder to third baseman Adam Frazier, who fired the ball high and wide to the left of first baseman John Jaso causing a collision between Jaso and Perez. The ball apparently bounded off the front of the dugout (or some other barrier) and ended up along the right field foul line about 30 feet behind first base.
While Arcia kept circling the bases, Jaso went after the ball and threw late in an attempt to get Arcia at the plate. At that point, Perez attempted to go to second and was thrown out by catcher Chris Stewart.
It appeared that the Brewers had scored a run and the inning had ended. But the umpires gathered and called obstruction on Jaso. According to a report on MLB.com, “because the obstruction occurred before Perez reached first, he was awarded first and the play was ruled dead, with Arcia being placed on third.” In the argument that followed, Brewers manager Craig Counsell was ejected by second base umpire Brian Gorman.
“In the end, I just didn’t agree with the call,” Counsell said to MLB.com. “I just didn’t think there was obstruction there. I thought that play happens a lot that the fielder has a right to go for the ball, and the throw took the fielder into the lane. He was just trying to make a play on the ball. It’s not obstruction, and to just stop the play rewards the other team.”
It should be noted for the umpires to rule a “natural collision” with no penalty, the fielder has to be in the “act of fielding” a throw that is directly toward him and near enough. In other words, the throw has to be catchable.
From this corner, in the above play assuming the throw to Jaso was catchable, neither the runner (Perez) nor the fielder (Jaso) violated a rule. Therefore, the play should have been a “no call” play. The Brewers should have scored a run and the inning should have ended when Perez was tagged out at second base.
If first base umpire Mark Carlson judged that the throw was not catchable, then under Pro and NCAA rules Type A obstruction should have been called on Jaso because Perez was obstructed before reaching first base with the ball in the infield. In the above play, Carlson never signaled “Time” to indicate a Type A obstruction. Also, should a thrown ball be in flight before the obstruction is called by the umpire, the runners are to be awarded such bases on wild throws that they would have been awarded had there been no obstruction. This is what complicates this play. I believe Carlson should have signaled “Time” if his intent was to call Type A obstruction but allow the play to proceed because of the wild throw. This is a case where the umpires are empowered to make an arbitrary base award unless the ball goes into dead ball territory in which case the runners would be awarded two bases from their position on the bases at the time of the wild throw that was made before the obstruction. No out can be recorded when a Type A obstruction occurs under Pro and NCAA rules.
Under NFHS rules, the vast majority of umpires believe a “no call” is appropriate in fielder/runner collision plays because both players are ”doing what they are supposed to do.” That interpretation would parallel the Pro and NCAA thinking. Playing under NFHS rules, however, all obstruction calls are delayed dead balls and there is no distinction between Type A and Type B. The case play covering the above play is found in rule 8.3.2. It involves a first baseman/batter-runner collision play. It reads,” If the batter-runner is knocked down before reaching the base, obstruction should be called.”
It appears that the rule should be interpreted very narrowly, meaning it only applies if the batter-runner is knocked down. In the above play Perez remained on his feet. Playing under NFHS rules, if Perez attempted to advance beyond his protected base he would do so at his own risk and could have been called out. If the umpires protected Perez to second base, he would remain. If the umps judged that Perez would only be protected to first base, then he would have been out at second base and the original out call would have remained.
When both an offensive and defensive player have the “Right of Way,” umpires, coaches and players can be on a rules collision course of disaster. The offensive team’s coach in such collision plays should be prepared to argue obstruction if the throw is not catchable. The defensive team’s coach should be prepared to argue that no obstruction should be called because both parties had the “Right of Way.” And umpires must be aware of the “natural collision” concept and be sure that the throw is not catchable before calling obstruction.
You can view this play on Mlb.com, Sept. 4, MIL@PIT, “Counsell gets ejected arguing a strange play,” or go to the link below.
Mace Brown is considered baseballs first full-time relief specialists aka The Closer. In the Major Leagues. In 1938, he led the Pirates with 15 wins (all in relief), led the National League with 51 games pitched, and became the first reliever to play the All-Star Game. In 1943, with the Red Sox, he also led the American League in games pitched with 49.
Relief pitchers used to pitch in less games and pitch more innings.
Stu Miller pitched over 100 innings each season.
The emphasis on the “save” statistic has morphed baseball in maybe a not so good way.
We can maybe turn our attention to the DUBs and then after the Sheen at the Latrine – Bobby E can rock the world by promoting Slade Heathcott – the former Yank #1 pick. He’ll need some positive reinforcement from all of our choir boys though as SH’s has had some odd goings on in his life,
*Slade’s biological dad took off and mom married Jeff Heathcott, who adopted Slade. However Jeff was arrested and convicted for forgery. The couple divorced while Slade was in high school. Mom relocated with Slade’s younger brother, Zane, to Alexandria, Louisiana, while Slade remained in high school, attending Texas High School in Texarkana, Texas. Heathcott spent his senior year of high school living out of his truck.
Isn’t quite out of the cookie cutter mold Rev.Evans normally looks for.
No rum cookies?
Adrian Beltre learned his “back-knee to the ground” when swinging from, none other than Domingo Ayala
A facet of athletic culture I’ve never really considered before.
Arroyo hitting a hard .207. Fellow rookie Bellinger off to a good start. Also with 2 HRs and .286/.375/.571 line in just 24 PAs. That on-top-of-the-plate swing working so far.
Roberts says he’ll go back to AAA when Pederson Guiterrez return.
i really do not like nunez at ss. heck, i really don’t like the giants right now either. so whatever. will i watch tonight???
yes…….a little depending on.
When Bob Uecker went into the HOF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7dG5HCKeWA
Will Giants be depants tonight because we have no Belt?
Not on dis continent
This Date in Giants History: May 1, 2013
The Giants completed a three-game sweep of the Diamondbacks with a
come-from-behind 9-6 win…Brandon Belt hit a three-run homer off David
Hernandez in the 8th inning to put the Giants ahead for good.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/game-27-preview-dont-worry-everybody-the-giants-got-this-kershaws-pitching-tonight/
disregard new post link below. These are old comments. We are working on this disqus issue.
these walks down memory lane serve to remind us of the wonderful season that is 2017
Surf Maui’s depants remark is good enough to see twice!
Reading through these 3-month-old comments, it’s remarkable that all of our predictions were correct. ; )
Yes, it’s the Baseball and Internet Gods conspiring to punish us even more!
Some good news on Steve Duggar–grand slam last night, 8 RBIs in the last two games. Should be promoted to Richmond or Sacramento soon.
Against the baby Dodgers – kudos!
Which one is the question? Sacto?
The beat writers have said he’ll go to Sac when he’s ready, but we’ll see. I know he finished last season in AA; if he’d started off the year healthy, he might have gone right to Sac out of camp or certainly been promoted there by now. Considering how much time he’s lost, Richmond would seem the more prudent course, but on the other hand, what are they waiting for? If he can help them next year or in September, move him along aggressively and see how it goes.
Might as well be Sac. What can Richmond offer right now?
Last night should tell all Bum is not saving anything this season and it gives all a glimpse of what Bumgarner may look like as he ages and loses speed off his best pitches. He’s going to give up a lot of home runs.
Therefore moving forward, unless this team all of the sudden morphs into the Yankees hitters, he should not be signed to a long term contract because it’s going to look bad sooner than later.
Agreed, they should let this current contract play out before making any hasty decisions. They really should’ve learned their lessons from how the Zito and Cain contracts have turned out anyway.
Stop stealing my post ideas.
Great minds think alike
Now I know you’re not Bobby Evans.
I don’t believe you.
(Check’s Zito and Cain’s career. OK, I might be wrong.)
I fully agree with this. I think signing Bumgarner to a long extension is just setting themselves up for another trap in the final 4-5 years of that deal. Signing pitchers to long term deals or paying big money for closers has never actually worked for them (and you could argue that part of why it doesn’t work is because they don’t target very good pitchers to begin with), but they don’t seem to realize this.
I don’t see any stat response (as in “get a doctor stat”) that will stop this downslide. It’s been going on too long now, since the second half last year, when we could all see it, but couldn’t quite believe it was happening. There isn’t just one problem. There are multiple problems.
Does this mean the Giants should consider rebuilding? I don’t know. A rebuild would take time that their core doesn’t have. But I don’t see any stat response that will work. Evidence: Melancon was the stat response for this season.
Just a long vacation (by everybody) where nobody thinks about baseball. I’m thinking 6 months.
The Giants had a long vacation and then we got… this season, the redux of the second half of last season.
Wasn’t long enough and with the way last season ended, I’m sure baseball hardly left anyone’s mind, especially the FO.
It doesn’t look like the FO did enough thinking and analyzing during the offseason about the many problems and needs. What was their group thinking? “Well, we got Melancon, so our job’s done.”
Yes, I’m curious what the FO thought about the outfield needs. Someone must have thought a solution was needed. Where does acquiring a “one-inning guy” equate with the need for a couple of “nine-inning guys”? What were they thinking about needing a couple of OFers? I agree. Did they really think they didn’t need to fill these holes?
I’m not surprised the rest of the team has no confidence and no drive now; nothing changed from where they ended last season.
“Where does acquiring a “one-inning guy” equate with the need for a couple of “nine-inning guys”?”
QOTY: Question of the year!
Yep. I think Sabean nailed it recently in his interview with Baggs when he called last season’s strong finish and wild card win “a false positive.” They should have paid more attention to what went wrong from mid-July to mid-September.
It also seems like there’s, if not complacency, at least denial among the players. Cain’s and Span’s quotes the other day about “we want to stay together” suggested that the prevailing mood is “we’re better than this–it’s just a bad year.” I’m not sure what, if anything, you do about that–demoralized and hopeless doesn’t sound like a better attitude, either–but it may suggest that a change in personnel is, indeed needed, just to mix things up.
Do you think Sabean was saying in that interview that the FO misread last season’s strong finish?
You’ve been surgically precise in your return 🙂
Andrew Baggarly is right. While we were watching, positive enthusiastic Pence didn’t age well and lost his oomph.
Amidst an injurious segment of his career. I have to imagine that with better health, can still hold on a couple to a few more years, the final segment. There’s always the Matt Holliday comparison.
Perhaps. I read somewhere that unorthodox players do not age well, and Pence is an unorthodox player.
Unorthodox for sure, but really hard-working, except maybe this last off-season. Honeymoon effect, maybe?
My theory is that Pence works out too much? A ball player needs to be limber, not just weight lifting strong. In recent years he’s had muscle tears like oblique and hamstrings, so he might need to consult someone about a better mix of preparation?
I agree with this. Baseball players should never use weights and focus on flexibility, stamina and workouts that build strength without tension on joins/bones/muscles.
Pilates! Yoga! Shooting hoops over the winter.
Everyone should lift weights.
I use weight machines every two days. First I get on the dreaded stairmaster for 10-12 minutes, then it’s over to the weight machines.
I think he needs to have his eyes checked.
Social media takeover by Lexi needs to go.
Panik and Law also got hitched this past off-season. Hmmmmm
Mojo? As in Dr. Strangelove, has their essence been robbed?
I’ve often thought this, but then I counter with: as a baby boomer, I probably don’t truly understand millennials, even though I’m the mother of a millennial. I don’t want to be too critical.
Pence is definitely hard working.
As a woman, I’m hesitant to blame this on the supportive encouraging woman in his life.
I’m not blaming her at all. If he has other priorities, it’s understandable since he’s been very active in other things than baseball. No Way am I blaming her one bit.
It’s from Baggardly’s article yesterday:
“Unorthodox players often do not age well, and Pence is as unorthodox as they come.”
Of course. Thanks! I was outside gardening–uh, digging up bricks I placed 10 years ago in an inconvenient place–and as I was shoveling through weeds and mud, I thought, must have been Baggarly.
He’s like a praying mantis or something.
Matt Holiday was a much better player than Pence when he was younger and much stronger built.
Not a good comparison.
Without looking, I think you’re right. Holliday did have Coors benefits early. And just has a better plate approach. But Pence’s defense better.
Pence (2007-2014)–I went from his rookie year to his last good healthy season, going from ages 24-31:
OPS+ 119, .284/.338/.472/.809, 185 HRs, 7 straight seasons with 20+ HRs
Holliday was better in the same age range (24-31)–OPS+ of 137, 202 HRs–but I wouldn’t say a “much better player” when he was younger.
The real difference is Holliday’s ages 32-36 seasons, in which he hit over 20 HRs four years out of five and is on pace to do it again at age 37. Pence, sadly, is not keeping up the production in his 30s.
Seems to me it’s either Span or Pence in LF next year, with two new (better) OFs in CF and RF. Hopefully that’s Slater and…TBD.
So…make the trade, Bobby!
Both! An old looney platoon.
I was thinking this morning when I was outside that Pence would be better utilized in a platoon. Go with his strengths, minimize his limitations, and provide rest to prevent injuries.
At his absolute worst Matt Holliday was a good hitter with a good approach. He never came close to the depths Pence is at now.
It’s not easy finding a comp for older outfielder doing well later in career.
The Brett Gardner type seems to age best, that “all around” player, those guys with speed, a good glove, moderate power. Or Kenny Lofton. I’m not saying Gardner is Lofton, but once Lofton’s peak skills eroded he still had a high enough floor in all those tools that he was able to be valuable for years. Shin-Soo Choo is another guy with a bat that ages nice, just because he has a great batting eye. His defense has always been suspect, but his batting eye gives him such a high floor that he’s aged better because of it. Pence just seemed destined to be a guy who would drop suddenly off a cliff.
Could be the “honeymoon” effect. Maybe the whole distraction can be put to bed, or it’s all Lexi’s fault.
I’ve mentioned over the past 2 seasons Pence best years are well behind him. He was a guy that played 100m and hour to be effective. Once that was gone plus injuries it usually is a quick downhill for these type of players
He’s a guy whose mechanics never made sense, everything always looked wrong. “How can he be successful with that swing? How can he be so successful with his awkward OF play?” We all said these things. But those players who don’t seem like they should be so successful, almost ALWAYS age terribly. The second a minor injury happens that changes anything about their approach – a loss in foot speed, a loss in bat speed, eyes getting older, whatever – everything else falls off a cliff.
The language was so harsh, though. It was kind of hard to read. I know “truth hurts,” but Pence has, overall, been such a positive presence on the Giants these past five years. Kicking and spitting on him when he’s down just feels wrong.
Baggs being Baggs. SO glad he’s not moderator of our blog any longer.
What article are you referring to?
It’s on the SJMN Giants page. I seem to be unable to post the link.
Wanting and needing to move on from a player that is either damaged goods or well past his prime does not always have to be construed as “spitting on them”.
It should be considered sound baseball decisions knowing when to cut ties with those players that really can’t help usher the team to the next level again.
This team and this fan base really has a hard time accepting this thinking. It’s one of the main reasons the team is in such a sad state with such a high payroll – not knowing when to move on.
It’s one thing to make a cogent argument that the Giants should cut their losses with Pence next year. It’s another to suggest we should feel “bile” when we think of him and to call him an “albatross.” I don’t ever think that’s a fair term to use–Pence signed that contract in good faith, and no one’s ever suggested there’s anything wrong with his effort or attitude. You always know you’re going to overpay in the last year or two of a big extension, anyway.
The bile comment was a little over the top, but calling his contract an albatross was pretty mild. Pence has way under-performed and is one of many reasons the team stinks. He could write a profile about almost everyone not named Nunez, Blach and Posey for why the team is bad this year and will likely be bad for a few years.
Yesterday he focused on Pence — perhaps tomorrow he will focus on someone else. Baggarly is the only Giants writer that doesn’t appear to toe the company line.
Alex wasn’t going with the company line when he wrote about his off-the-record interviews with players and team employees about the possible return of Sandoval.
But how is that logical or prudent to sign a guy or back a guy you know is DONE?
The Giants are great at these Albatross contract – take the fact the gave Lincecum well over 20 M and a roster spot that could have been used much better knowing the dude was hanging by a thread. You must remember me posting in the old blog about this as it was happening.
It became the LINCECUM FACTOR – throwing away a roster spot and necessitating 13 man pitching staff because of this one action.
When it’s time to move on it’s time to move on. Need to use brain more than heart. That’s what bobble heads and jerseys are for. You can keep them around once players are gone.
I’ll laugh at all the fans with Belt jerseys once he’s traded. They should get a blankie and sleep with the jerseys on. lolz
Doesn’t seem as harsh as those often expressed here for Cain or Bochy, despite their positive contributions during the great run.
The difference is that we’re just fans and faceless keyboard warriors. Baggarly’s a journalist and a Giants beat writer. He’s both professionally trained and obligated to stay objective.
I really like Pence, but objectively he’s been very bad.
Just read it. While factually accurate, the undertone seemed to be “kick him while he’s down.”
As is for Belt, Span, Kontos, Cain, you name ’em…
The tone was overly harsh.
What a shocker. It reminded me of the disdain he expressed for Lincecum a couple of years ago, outright mocking him. Or, just a couple of weeks ago, saying the fans were “too bored to boo” Matt Moore when he made an early exit. Speaking as a writer and a linguist, there’s a line between “accurate” and “mean,” and he’s a good enough writer to choose one side of the line or the other.
I guess I was over focused on what was “factually accurate” (credit: tf62) in Baggarly’s article about Pence. But you’re right, Lefty. The harsh tone makes it more of a hit piece.
These guys would be getting crucified in NY or Philly — Baggarly is not that harsh. Span has more HRs than Pence. I think Pence has to be one of the least productive corner OF’s out there. You see the Dodgers and Red Sox cut their losses.
I wouldn’t DFA Pence right now b/c they have nobody to play in his place, but he is a mess at the plate and pretty bad in the field too.
Baggs is “tough and harsh” for SF apparently. What do those fly over states call us Californians again?
Baggarly has often been overly harsh about certain players.
I was camping and off the grid for a week and come back to find Bum still winless and Pablo lurking in the wings? Wow.
Going to the game tonight mainly because we bought tickets back in February when hopes were high along with the dynamic prices. Oh well… It’s also pre-game wine fest so I’ll be comfortably numb by game time!
Grab some wine, meat!
Lodi style. Our arch rivals in High School, (AA Stagg High, Stockton) but now many of our class have moved north, closer to grape/wine country. The Lodi Flames, named for the “flaming tokay” grape that is prevalent in those vineyards.
We called them “grape stompers.” Since Stockton was (at that time) the world’s largest inland seaport they called us wharf rats.
Good HS memories.
I’m no wine snob by any means, but I used to see “Lodi” on a bottle and think, “Ugh, are you kidding me”? But since I’ve moved closer to the area and visited several of the wineries I gotta say that Lodi Zins are some of the best I’ve tasted.
As in Gnarly Head? LOL
that’s the one I can afford!
Excellent. I’m glad to hear that.
Have you guys gone tasting in Amador County yet? There are some good places, and it’s a lot more low-key than Napa or Sonoma. Plus Taste restaurant in Plymouth is outstanding (note the cheap Monday night pre-fixe menu!).
There’s also a HS in Napa called Vintage. Their nickname is the “Crushers”.
When I was a teen Rohnert Park had an independent league team called the Sonoma County Crushers. Kevin Mitchell played a season there, though was never playing any of the games I tried to go see him. They had a mascot nicknamed “The Abominable Sonoman”.
I remember that team and Mitchell playing there.
That park doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s not just a vacant lot next to a Costco.
How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?!?
Sean Spicer is available. He just resigned as WH press secretary. Can he play LF?
He’s no Gorkys
Awwwww, man. There goes Melissa’s Emmy!
It’s gonna be funny if Sandoval signs with Kansas City and heads to Omaha.
All that Pandamonium for naught.
Hope that happens. Anywhere but here…”panda”.
Omaha great place for steaks so my guess is that’s where he signs
I’ve actually been to Omaha a couple of times in recent years to speak at the university. They’ve got a nice downtown with some good restaurants–I remember a steakhouse and an excellent Italian place. I’m guessing not too many great Taquerias, though.
Actual there’s a bunch. Guess who cuts up all those cows and pigs at slaughter.
Wait, what are you talking about?
He’s “weighing” other options. KC is one of them. Or maybe only other one.
I read where Pablo claimed to have other options. Where did you read about KC?
I guess I only heard it from Flan, but maybe that was corroborated by what a gleaned from another source.
Okay, thanks, Ryan. Flannery’s interview must be somewhere.
Cardinals acquire a top outfield prospect in AAA for Marco Gonzalez, who is kind of Ty Blach-ish, I think. Would you swap Ty Blach for a top outfield prospect that’s just about ready for the Big Top?
I’d give 2 Blachs
Right now, sadly, no. We don’t have enough quality arms pushing their way forward. We’ll likely have two rotation spots to fill in 2018. Ty Blach is an MLB starter with five years of team control. Don’t trade him.
Here’s what we need to think about regarding Blach.
I just read the “Toolshed” article and it believes the ONLY trade chip the Giants have is Marge. If Samardzija does, in fact, go, keeping Blach is a necessity for the rotation. Personally, I’d hate to see either/both go.
Maybe–>yes. There’s Andrew Suarez in the wings. While he’s not as polished yet as Blach, he may have more exciting upside–a faster fastball, moving up the ladder much more quickly. Blach spent 4 1/2 years in the minors before breaking through to a major league rotation. Suarez was drafted in 2015 and is already knocking on the door from AAA.
I’m a big Blach fan and think he’s going to have a long, productive major league career. But Suarez is a pretty nice fallback plan, and if the AAA OF prospect is the real deal, that’s an important opportunity. As we’ve seen, it’s easier for the Giants to grow and buy starting pitchers than good position players, especially outfielders.
I think I read a report few days ago about Mariners checking in with the Giants and Padres for starting pitching. Giants should’ve definitely pounced on this when they had the chance. Teams usually aren’t willing to part ways with one of their top prospects for minor league pitching.
Will anyone do business with the Giants?
Teams are checking in on Giants players, I just wonder if Evans is actively involved or interested in pulling a trade
what was Flannery’s take on giving Lardo a flyer?
He can’t score from 2nd on a single. Can’t do winning baseball things…
“Lardo” is not very nice either 🙁
Some people love Lardo, especially those that are into charcutière.
I like a good salami. Survival food.
Thinking of Stand By Me scene:
lard ass, lard ass, lard ass…
There will be revenge!
“Can’t do winning baseball things…”
What is the point? Did Flannery say?
Interesting. Something similar going on in St. Louis…
Matheny’s maybe too nice a guy?
The downside to being a “player’s manager”.
I suspect the Cardinal’s ‘frontal lobe’ went to the Astros from what transpired afterward. The smart people at the Cardinals went to the Astros.
MiLB.com grades are out on NL West minor league farm systems.
Dodgers – A-
Padres – B+
Giants – D-
The Dodgers did this while winning the past few years. Admittedly, there were no World Championships, but they have had winning seasons. Not a good look when comparing FO accomplishments.
Money! Is the root of all evil today…
What the Giants have money,
new car caviar I think I’ll buy a football team…
…four star daydream…
And there you have it. Our biggest weakness: a very poor MiLB system. We make questionable draft decisions and then can’t coach them up to MLB level. This is not news to knowledgeable Giants fans. Next “what happened to” guys: Tyler Beede and Andrew Suarez.
Maybe not. Beede’s latest start was terrific. Suarez is doing OK at AAA so far, and his strikeout numbers in particular are good. I know the ERA is ugly, but he’s only made 5 AAA starts, and some of those PCL parks can be a rough adjustment.
Remember Ty Blach had a mediocre first year in Sacramento after good seasons at lower levels, and now he’s a productive major leaguer. Pitchers seem to be hard to project, or they get hurt. Julio Urias was supposed to be the next Kershaw, and now he’s recovering from a career-threatening injury.
I’m not too worried about the pitching pipeline, though it’s thinner than it was a year ago. I’d really like to see some outfielders stick. Hopefully Slater, Duggar, and Shaw are the next wave.
Chris Stratton had a nice start against El Paso as well.
Last two starts for him: 13.2 IP, 13 H, 4 ER, 4 BB, 13 K
Beede: 12 IP, 13 H, 4 ER, 2 BB, 9 K
Something similar about these dudes. Maybe Stratton can be a better option next year than he has been this year.
I think Beede’s better. He’s certainly moved faster. And he won the Eastern League ERA title last year–Stratton never came close to anything like that in the minors. The Giants seemed to keep moving Stratton along because it was time (and maybe that first-round pedigree), not because he’d especially earned a promotion. (Same with Crick, really, finally moving from AA to AAA after three years in Richmond. That turned out well, though–Crick obviously has benefited from the confidence boost and the change of scene. Crick’s career renaissance is one of the bright spots in Giantsville in 2017.)
Beede better be better. When I was Stratton in A+, I was like, that’s it?
Beede wasn’t overly impressive either, 91-92 on the gun. But he did bring the heat back last year.
Crickey! Great arm. That ball jumps on the hitter. He’s probably still a project, but very promising for the future pen.
One thing that set Stratton back was he was hit in the forehead by a batted ball IIRC 8 games into his pro career and missed the rest of that season. He was first 1st round draft pick pitcher after Lincecum.
Actually Crick was, if you count the comp round (in 2011, as comp for Uribe).
EDIT: Oh, and Bumgarner & Wheeler were both after Lincecum, too.
Chris Stratton will never be a better option.
his 2018 self be a better option than his 2017 self, if that makes any sense.
Maybe he’ll help Sacramento more in 2018.
Look at what happened with Blackburn. He was arguably ahead of Blach and more successful by leading the AAA in ERA. I thought Blackburn was ahead of Blach and other Sacramento starters but wasn’t getting a MLB and stagnated.
Then he was essentially given away and is now injured. Blackburn is two years younger than Blach. Blackburn throws (threw) harder). Blackburn was a HS draft pick while Blach was college. Blackburn made Baseball Prospectus 100 top list but Blach was not considered as strong a prospect.
I was thinking about him, too. You’re right–he was considered a stronger prospect and he did have that great 2015 season (ERA title in the PCL). He’s still young and things could still work out for him. I guess it goes to show these things are hard to predict. A few years ago, the SJ Giants had this fantastic rotation: Crick, Blackburn, Blach (won ERA title in the Cal League), Mejia. Of those, I’d say Blach was the last guy I would have expected to stick in a major league rotation. He didn’t have the pedigree or the raves from scouts that those other guys had. But he seems to have something in terms of poise, polish, or makeup that’s allowing him some nice success so far.
And then there’s disappearance of Albert Suarez.
Seems like Blach and Mejia have faired about the same this year.
Hey, he reappeared on the mound at Raley Field the other night! Saw him with my own two eyes, I did. Pitched three very nice shutout innings with 0 walks and 5 Ks, 95 on the FB.
Mejia is doing well for a 24 yr old beginning MLB career, He is not arb eligible to 2020 will not be a free agent until 2023.
Gee, that’s just a mystery. The Giants are such a space age bunch of talent evaluators and developers.
Unfortunately it seems most of the Giants steam age FO are past their expiration date.
Someone mentioned this the other day (Sgbssfg?) and I keep chuckling about it. This bobblehead DOES remind me of Matt Cain.
We gotta figure out how to get one of those for dgg.
Red Sox happy to pay the rest of Sandoval’s salary if Giants take over responsibility for cost of his meals.
I wonder if the Brewers are interested, he could die of funnel cake overdose in a year there.
“Funnel cake overdose”–snort
So, will they ever play Journey again during the 8th inning or have I just been attending the games where they happen to play Enter Sandman instead?
Right–that game against the Marlins a couple weeks ago, there was no “Don’t Stop Believing.” Worked for me. That was getting beyond tired.
Need to mix it up, get a little moody. Love this one from Journey. The guitar gets me every time!
I heard the Giants started playing the lignts song in the 4th inning of a Sunday home game with Moore starting. Kinda a theme for the season
Read the Pence piece. Must be my bias, did not think of it as a hit piece. Actually found some balance with nods to the upbeat and personal and fair Hunter piece, and recognition that he is just one of many problems. But the 0.099 isolated slugging combined with a sub .300 OBP from right field is not playable on most teams.
I agree, it’s a well-balanced article. After watching Hunter chase those foot-outside pitches this week, I still maintain it’s his eyesight. And it’s affecting his judgement in RF.
p.s. He never got over those 2 ‘iron-man’ years – that was stupid and unnecessary.
I don’t think resting a few more games over that time would’ve changed anything about what’s happening now.
What we want as fans here at TWG during trade season and what’s going down is gonna be like, yeah, saw that one coming and also be like WTF? who the ******? And all this talk about Pablo, if the Giants put him thru his physical, well, he’s got to pass it first.
What do people want, a chance at another World Series win, or just a team that’s not as awful as this one has been? It’s reasonable to believe the Giants could be not as awful next season, but the World Series window with this group is permanently closed. Next season’s ages: Posey 31, Crawford 31, Belt 30, Span 34, Pence 35, Samardzija 33, Cueto 32, Kontos 33, Melancon 33, Gearrin 32, Hundley 34. The great Gorkys himself is going to be 30. But even if they improve some next season, what about the year after, when everyone is another year older? Nope. It’s over. It’s time to rebuild.
As I keep saying, the best thing they could to help the process is to trade Bumgarner. Even if he stays, they’re not going to be contenders during the last two years of his contract. If they want to throw huge money at a free agent, it should be Bryce Harper, not Madison Bumgarner. People seem to take these losses personally. Unless they make some bold moves, you might as well get used to seeing them lose.
What do you want?
I want rock n’ roll!
you betcha, alright!
Your muse, The Tin Man.
Hard to ignore that age thing.
Most things that happen in baseball are unexplainable. That is why when fanatics or reporters who want to know – “how did that HR feel coming off your bat” – the players just deal with it with disdain. The fanatics want to know why that pebble was in the soil of the infield the other night helping the Giants rally for a win – but the players/staff etc have turned the page way before post game interviews. The 2010 team was not viable until they acquired (A) vets who knew how to win (B) Vets who knew how to win but had not been to the dance, thus they were hungry. (C) Youthful starting pitching (D) Cagey bullpen that did not get flummoxed (E) Luck and (F) Lots of unexplainable stuff.
It was more of a take this job and shove it moment, folks there said. But if he can play LF, send him to Richmond for a look. You can never tell.
To use a better baseball terminology, Sean Spicer opted out of his contract.
I like that one too! You are right, according to official sources, but that organization is even more murky than the Giants FO. Might have been a DFA in actuality?
There’s no SF or KC waiting to claim him, I suspect.
Scarmucci stated with regard to Spicer, he hopes he makes lots of money. It is all about the Bling they can make.
Aaron Judge playing catch with young Marlin fan.
I hope Pence’s wife still looks at him the same way in a couple of years, when she can no longer use his fame to try to promote herself.
She was famous prior to meeting him.
Don’t know how much is enough, but don’t they have plenty of money? Just following their passions now?
She seems to want to be famous.
She has a lot of personality. This is a great opportunity for her. But maybe Giants media can do some filtering. She was on Marty Lurie a few weeks ago and seemed to really take over, and not in the best way.
I don’t listen that much but I heard her on there and wondered “who the heck is that?” and what is she doing on the baseball talk show. Then I heard it was her and it made sense.
A friend believes that Pence’s decline started and continues after he met Lexi; too many distractions… selling their own coffee, selling their wedding video (?), too many social media posts. I heard that show about a month ago where she was on Marty Lurie. She sounded a little self-serving. I’m sure she’s a nice lady but… The weird thing was listening to the make callers who were quite interested in her. Creepy.
That’s a weird indictment of someone you don’t know…? So, you somehow know she married him for his fame to promote herself. Yikes
I don’t know her. Maybe she’s the most wonderful woman ever, but she sure has used Pence’s fame to try to promote herself.
Maybe she’ll push him using PEDs to prolong her chance for fame, sarcasm. TO, you are an odd duck.
That’s an odd duck call for sure.
Do you hope this? Does this really concern you?
Yes. I couldn’t sleep at all last night.
We all know you’re not sitting there worried and hand wringing, but writing a post like that at least gives the impression of concern, even if everyone recognizes for the shitty dig that it is. What is honestly the point of implying his wife is gold digging?
It’s a thought I’ve had for quite a while. You’re not required to agree with it. What is the point of any of the thoughts expressed here?
So now, you’ve morphed into Uncle Fester.
The point of MOST of the thoughts here are to criticize or praise baseball players on the team that we all collectively enjoy watching. Once we get to speculating on whether a player’s wife will still love them it hits a certain level of gross. Keep making garbage comments and then innocently going “I don’t know why this would be a bother to anyone.” People see right through you.
I’ll make the comments I choose to make. You can categorize them however you’d like.
Are you just bored, maybe at a desk.
While acknowledging that I don’t really know any of these guys, the Giant I admire most is Hunter Pence. I really appreciate the way he goes about his job. He gives everything he has, all of the time. I hope he has a great post-baseball life.
From the beginning, I’ve been a little suspicious of how much his wife uses his baseball fame to promote herself. It doesn’t mean I’ve concluded she’s a gold digger. She may be a wonderful person and they may live happily ever after. But I think I’ve had much different experiences than most here. I’ve been involved in other people’s lives for a long time, and often seen the ugliness that they try to keep hidden from the rest of the world. So I’m no doubt more cynical. I’m not as inclined to assume everything will always be wonderful, or that what’s visible on the surface always tells the full story.
This or any blog is about views and opinions. Mine come from a little different perspective. If people don’t like it, that’s fine.
It’s a bit like CU’s secret lust for a woman Basketball announcer, a reasonable personal POV, but a tad TMI, IMO. IMO, it’s soap opera reasoning. LOL, want to talk Duvall to save you from your weaker angels. You’re bored.
Oh, we all know that nobody can tell you what to do. You post frequently enough that you clearly want your opinions acknowledged, but then act like your comments are just posted innocently into the ether. You’re the only one here who goes to the “I don’t know why something I wrote should bother/offend anyone”. So, your frequent posts are both so important that you couldn’t just keep them to yourself, you had to let the public know your stance….but so unimportant that nobody should bother to feel the need to react to them.
I don’t think anything anyone says here is “so important,” and I’m certainly all on board with expressing disagreement, but I just don’t get taking offense or feeling uncomfortable. You’ve decided to come after me lately, but I’m neither offended or uncomfortable. My feelings don’t get hurt.
“Important” is perhaps the wrong word. I know when I post something I do it because I think it is specifically relevant – or of interest – to the group who frequents this page. If I post something that gets no reaction at all, that’s fine, but at the time of posting I thought it would be interesting to someone, thus “important”. Am I wrong in assuming that when you post something, it’s because you think someone here would find it interesting? Or are you just posting as if it were some sort of private journal? I would assume the former, but when most of your responses to others are “I don’t see why anyone would react to what I wrote” it seems like you’re either playing dumb, or don’t understand the purpose of public forums.
If your comments are always made with the intent of benefitting others, I think you’re more altruistic than most, and maybe a little more self-important. I just post my thoughts and opinions, which is what I think most people do.
I wouldn’t quite say that I’m selfless, but I also think I understand the forum I’m posting on. If I find something interesting and – usually – baseball related, this is where I would post that. I found – what I thought – was some neat stuff about Game Scores the other day, posted it here thinking others might find it interesting. It generated no interest, but I’m fine with that. They can’t all be winners. But I can’t imagine posting it, getting a response, and then saying “I’m not sure why you’re reacting to this.”
I agree with dgg below. I’m uncomfortable with all the digs at Pence’s wife here today. It’s the same schtick as with Ayesha Curry–are they successful because they have famous husbands or because they’re really talented?
Well, we don’t really know, do we? They DO have famous husbands, so we don’t know what might have happened otherwise. But the fact is that a LOT of people who make it in some kind of entertainment business do so because of a lucky break or who they know. There are plenty of equally talented people that you never hear of. So good for Lexi and Ayesha if they’re pursuing their passions. We all should be so fortunate.
Plus she actually had her own following prior to meeting Pence. This makes me uncomfortable too. It’s such a petty dig and unnecessary.
Why would someone else’s opinion or comment make you uncomfortable?
Because some of these statements weren’t very polite? A ball player is a sort of public figure, but not a politician, and deserves a bit of a private life.
I commented on what has been made public.
I don’t understand why I need to explain that to you.
Just the mere fact that it does should be enough. Don’t you have teenage girls? The slightest thing can make anybody feel uncomfortable and you triple the ante when you add your cop mentality pettiness.
When ever something doesn’t sit right with you – you ask for:
(1) an explanation
(2) you claim they offer no opinion when all along they had one.
I think the term you’re looking for is ‘gold-digger.’
That’s really none of your business. You can criticize the player for not playing well but attacking his family/personal life is off-limits. This comment is out-of-bounds and you know it.
Okay, found the Pablo-to-KC reference. It’s Jon Heyman again. Because of course it is.
Jon Heyman 6:11am EDT:
the #SFGiants are hoping to bring back pablo sandoval today, and that’s still the expectation. tho the royals are among others w/ interest.
KC Royals SBNation asks: “Say what?”
“Since he caught that pop fly from Salvador Perez, he has been….not good at baseball. In the last three years, Sandoval has hit .237/.286/.360 with 14 home runs in 161 games. That is a lower OPS than Danny Espinosa, Derek Norris, and Billy Burns over that time, and with his poor fielding, Sandoval has been worth -2 WAR.”
Maybe it’s just that the price is right on Pablo, and after they trade Nunez they will be thin on infielders??? I find Carl’s column to ring with more truth than anything I’ve heard on KNBR, especially Jon Lund’s preposterous takes yesterday afternoon. It doesn’t surprise me that everyone on the Giants payroll is being careful not to be perceived as negative.
CJ Hinojosa get’s some ‘ink’ at Fangraphs as an unrecognized fringe prospect.
Ryan’s had his eye on CJ for a couple years. I know he’s considered to have a pretty good glove, as well. Another guy whose season has been stalled by early injuries. It’s just been that kind of year.
FG apparently sees him as the best option for 3B currently in the Giants system. I guess we get to be patient, but thinking optimistically, maybe this is one reason Nunez is available. Footy gets one strand to stick to the wall. IMO, he’s right here.
Steve Grande (Media Relations Manager for the Astros) 3hr ago:
Run differential in the AL:
Red Sox +65
This is a cool graphic. We all know about how dandy Vandy is at generating pro ball players. Here are their assignments. And yes, Dodgers Walker Buehler who has skyrocketed the prospect rankings, and who the Giants could have drafted instead of Phil Bickford, has been promoted to AAA. In his first start at AAA, he did not get out of first inning before getting pulled for pitch count.
It’s been over 3 hours since Sandoval reportedly cleared waivers. Not that I’m clock watching.
Go Royals! (borrowed from Lefty today)
Hosmer, Salvie, Moose and the Boys just might make it back into the playoffs. They could use another starter. No need for a 3B with Moooooooooooooooooose. Possibly a backup DH?
Somebody questioned why my preference for Hosmer over Belt in the middle of a lineup. I dunno. Look at their stats.
I saw a comment from a Royals fan:
“We don’t need a Slow Panda. We already have a Moose.”
Fortunately for us, the Royals do not have a Moooooooooose.
Hosmer’s stats this year – in his best hitting season – don’t look that different from Belt’s this year…
Come on dude, give it a rest. Hosmer is having a better year and is the better player.
Results do not actually back this statement up.
sure they do. one guy is hitting under .240 the other .315. One K’s about 25% of the time, the other 16%. Hosmer did hit 25 HRs and knock in 104 RBIs last year.
Better BA, less K’s, yet near identical RBI/Run numbers.
Hos had kind of a Posey-ish run with RBIs for a while
Belt sure seems to come up with runners on base or in run scoring position and not deliver or draw a walk. I don’t know, maybe stats do back my hunch up on that.
Baseball is probably the most prone sport to confirmation bias. We’re all guilty of it. Hitters fail most of the time, so if there’s a guy we don’t like, and we watch an at bat going “he’s going to fail”, we’ll be proven right most of the time.
But Belt this year is hitting .254/.419/.493 w/ RISP this season. His K rate in those situations is 21.5%, far lower than his season rate. His BB rate is also 22%, far higher than his season rate. So he IS walking more in those situations, but he’s also delivering a BA above his season BA, and an ISO above his season ISO. BUT, he’s still making an out 58% of the time. So again, if you’re looking for him to fail in those situations, you’re going to be right far more than wrong. But that’s true of any player.
He’s hitting about .170 in high leverage spots and about .200 with runners on base – which is a larger sample size than RISP.
I just know when scouts see him, there is frustration over the lack of consistent plate approach and consistent results. He is more auxilliary player than carrier player.
He is what he is. He’ll usually wind up with his highly favorable metrics.
This goes back to players not actually knowing the leverage of an actual at bat, while they’re in the at bat. His “Medium leverage” numbers are killer, and I just refuse to think that he’s in his total comfort zone in medium leverage, but just swallows his batting glove in high leverage. Hosmer doing pretty unspectacular in RISP situations this year, but killing it in high leverage.
I’d wager that players “understand” and recognize a RISP situation far better than they understand in the moment what a high or medium leverage moment is.
Or the leverage might dictate the caliber or variety of pitches that the hitter sees – as does RISP and runners on.
With Belt, I wouldn’t dicker around too much with the offspeed. Use that for show. Go after him up at the hands with the heater. A lot of success there.
I agree, but also think I explained myself terribly in the post above. What I should have said it “here’s what I think, I’m curious if you think the same, Ryan”: Do you think that players view RISP as the most “high leverage” situation, and that whatever constitutes a “high/medium/low leverage” situation is less known to them? Obviously they can go to the plate with a plan, but I think getting to the plate w/ RISP is a concrete visual for them.
The fact that the SFG FO even thought the Panda Redux is a good idea is disturbing. If he actually ends up in Sac it won’t actually make the situation worse than it is. That said, Go Royals!
Don’t be surprised if suddenly the Giants do an about face on Panda because of the negative feedback since the story broke.
When I read Bruce Jenkins’ article today, what you’re saying GG came to my mind too. Jenkins talked about the negative fan reaction to this news and even said, “The Giants don’t have an attendance problem.”
That, to me, seems more “sad and desperate” than going after him in the first place. Are they so weak in their convictions that people talking bad on Twitter will make them do a 180? THAT more than anything else makes them seem like they have no clue what they are doing.
Uh, they don’t. I’m fine with the Giants FO putting on the brakes and doing a U-turn and walking away from a reunion with Sandoval. If beat reporters and smart fans helped them see what a bad idea this is and reconsider, that’s good.
If we think the brain trust is stupid enough to be influenced by Twitter, it doesn’t sound like we should have a whole lot of faith in this team for the next decade or so. And believe me, I’ve gotten this sense as well, in the past. When they signed Uggla, it clearly looked like a bad idea, to everybody. And then he played badly for 3 games and cut him. But the fact that they let 3 games change their mind was disconcerting to me. If they thought it was a good enough idea to bring him in, send people through the trouble of meeting him, getting him a uni, working out a contract, etc., then 3 games – no matter how great or terrible – should not have changed their minds. It’s disconcerting rooting for a team that comes off this clueless at times.
Twitter, manged correctly, is useful information. But putting an information source that requires sophisticated interpretation in front of current Giants Mgmt. doesn’t seem a ‘useful’ exercise.
Hank Schulman said the response on Twitter to the Giants proposed reunion with Sandoval was “on a different level. I’ve never seen so much antipathy.”
I’m hoping the intensity of the negative reaction got through to the Giants FO.
I think it’s a dangerous pattern.
So they would be crowd sourcing as a way to evaluate their talent acquisition? why do they even have an analytic team? smh
It depends who’s ox would be gored by a flip-flop, don’t you think?
Would a flip-flop be worse than a flop?
You’re being logical again. This has the smell of an ego driven decision by someone who doesn’t know his own teams fanbase. If that were Baer for example, as opposed to Evans, the outcomes might be substantially different. If ownership looses confidence in you, IMO, that’s a lot less repairable a situation.
Grant Brisbee says it’s Bobby Evans.
That fits the head on the block paradigm. Baer takes a bullet for no one, Neukom proved that.
There’s an easy enough way to get out of this situation. Just decide that Sandoval didn’t pass a physical. Orioles do this, why can’t we?
I had this idea this afternoon while I was sewing! I even know someone who could do the physical and flunk him on his BMI and high LDL cholesterol.
Superman and Lex Luthor reminded me of these villains…
Very happy for Pablo the man. This is his chance to salvage his MLB career if that’s what he wants. He came up a Giant. Probably learned from Davvy. He was loved here and won 3 WS rings and had a historic game.
As far as Pablo the ballplayer, I have no idea. Maybe he’s at a point in his life where he learns to enjoy the hard work pays off ethic. His talent is undeniable. His brain needs work. Maybe he takes this chance to commit to baseball.
With $50 Million in the bank? What would you do?
He has to float the entire village called HOME some dinero.
I’d retire to Venezuela, hire some protective thugs, and play ball at home.
Advertising a sandwich
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dd339cf5f5cfc1e22a1e72fb8afbbb40bbad2db210b7a397bf8a9aa9c75c18a7.jpg right here
Wait, wait. I’ve got it. #48 is not available. Problem solved!
#48 Steven Okert – that will last less than five minutes. Okert to Panda: I will take a sum of that 95M.
Three Rolex’s and a 2018 Lamborghini or better yet for a good old boy named Okert a 2018 dolled up Truck.
Panda (to Okert), “We can go to Harry’s Hofbrau as many times a you want for dinner.”
This was funny!
I’m really feeling completely indifferent to the Sandoval signing. Doesn’t excite me nor upset me. Whatever. Season has been a complete disaster and embarrassment. If I were betting, they will see rather quickly he’s a mistake like with Uggla. I do think people will be eager to see how it pan (da’s) out. I know I will not want to miss that first game if he makes it to SF. I’m not too old to enjoy a little Barnum and Bailey.
David Phelps to Seattle trade a good gauge of what they could get for Strickland??
I was thinking that, but Phelps track record appears superior and maybe scouts dig the movement of his pitchers better. And he’s probably not a punk.
Yeah, I think he’s valued much higher. And Marlins didn’t really get that much. Hernandez 19, was the key and he hit .270 in the AZL and now at .250 in low A. Whoopdeedoodah.
There’s been some consternation about the organization trading Belt.
Hard to imagine a team really being that far in on him that they would want to trade prospects for what amounts to a 4 year/70 mil contract when there will be a reasonable crop of 1B FAs this winter, and that 1B demand isn’t all that high. I imagine Hosmer could fetch close to 5/100 mil on the market, at the most. After that, Lucas Duda and Yonder Alonso and Carlos Santana and Morrison are available for probably something close 50 mil. And then there are cheaper bodies to fill 1B like Moreland, Jaso, Reynolds, and probably somebody else.
It seems very hard to imagine the Giants moving Belt in this market.
He’s staying put folks. Love him or leave him, he is gonna keep on working towards that Gold Glove with those lofty 1B DRS #’s and keep on doing his BB9 thing in the batter’s box for your SF Giants – at least until 2019 deadline.
The Yankees want, and frankly need him., Belt that is. But he’s such a motivational enigma, he must worry them. How much does the AL play the shift?
It’s the 17m next year that’s the problem. They are believe to be still high on Greg Bird.
…and I was having such a good day, too
I am sorry, GSEfrain 😉
Speaking for myself, it’s acceptance. I would love nothing more than to see the great catcher, Buster Posey, catch less and play more 1B, while mentoring some young buck catcher and opening up opportunity for the likes of Chris Shaw, Ryder Jones, et al.
But I see the path that this org is going to take. It’s not a well lit path, it could be something out of a Nathanial Hawthorne tale, a Poe verse, or perhaps a Stephen King epic. That’s the hue this is taking.
Panda can share 1B for the time being.
Cardinals at Cubs on MLB Network. Entering top of the eighth Cubs have a 3-2 lead. It’s now 11-3, Cardinals…still no outs. The only thing that would make that better for me would be if Lackey was on the mound for the Cubs.
Jobu has moved east for his grins and giggles.
This would be the Cubs’ first loss of the second half.
More will follow, I am sure.
This makes me laugh, Kyrie now wants to be traded to be a focal point in an offense.
And Lebron feels blindsided. This shows how losely that team is built and how little the players actually like each other there.
Great opportunity for Boston to win the East. And of course helps the Dubs.
Kyrie gets traded, LBJ probably bolts, and Kevin Love gets left behind in Cleveland.
There are no challengers in the East. Irving or no Irving, LeBron will win the East.
And just saying, LeBron’s teams go through this type of drama every year.
Having said that though, this is a clear indication that LeBron’s going to leave Cleveland after next season. Possibly headed to Magic’s Lakers to team up with your guy Ball?
Having said that though, this is a clear indication that LeBron’s going to leave Cleveland after next season. Possibly headed to Magic’s Lakers to team up with your guy Ball?
The more I think about signing Sandoval, the better sense it makes. He’s turning 31 in three weeks, his OPS has declined the last 6 seasons in a row, he’s been awful for the last 3 years, has a proven record of lacking self-discipline and professionalism, had major surgery last off-season, and was a problem for teammates and management when he was here previously. Think of how much a player like that could help them in the reverse pennant race.
Net Post: https://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/game-98-preview-padres-have-embarrassed-the-giants-and-i-am-sick-of-it/
Beautiful day for a pre game. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5b554be4e83cf98a27fbd46d2d92d575fe78dffb3c9d935d2472cd6d6a829442.jpg