by
Greek Giant
The Sell-Out “Streak” is over. 530 games, spanning 8 seasons, is impressive no matter how many times the Giants management kept the streak afloat artificially. The National League record is a testament to the greatness of the Giants on the field, the beauty of the park, and the ardor of the fans. It is something to embrace and remember, especially because anyone who attended a game in that span was part of history.
It was interesting listening to Larry Baer join Jon Miller and Dave Fleming on the radio in the 7th inning last night. He was very upbeat, gracious and professional about the streak as he thanked the fans. While there was an air of subdued sadness in the booth, especially with Dave Fleming sheepishly asking if this meant last night’s game was not a sell-out. While failure is always sad it’s important for Giants fans to remember how far the team has come in the past 23 years.
I moved to San Francisco in 1992. A few weeks later Peter Magowan bought the team and then proceeded to immediately sign Barry Bonds. I remember going to games at Candlestick when there might be 12,000 fans present. I remember falling in love with the Giants classic uniforms and Barry Bonds’s athleticism from the beginning. While I don’t have quite the historical longevity of being a Giants fans that many of you have, I do think it is important to see this down year in context and appreciate the success the team and organization has had in the past eight years.
Winning one World Series is so so so so difficult. I believe the World Series is the toughest championship to win in sports. I spent 30 plus years as an Expo fan without even sniffing a National League pennant!
For the Giants to win 3 in 5 is a memory and experience of a lifetime that I will always treasure.
Let’s get sentimental for a moment as we celebrate what the sell-out streak meant: baseball greatness in the greatest city in the greatest park in America. It’s more fun than talking about last night’s game.
530 consecutive sellouts: the longest streak in NL history. An incredible accomplishment thanks to the best fans in baseball.#SFGiants pic.twitter.com/KKnWrTYprK
— San Francisco Giants (@SFGiants) July 18, 2017
Comment Gold
The Box
Breckeroni says READ this below
THIS just in for all the amazingly brilliant Giant fans that are down on their luck or their Dobber is Down.
When Team Giant wins a ball game or a bunch of ball games or win Team Giant Scuffles as they are now – their effort level is extremely high – just like when they win games or seemingly cannot be beaten.
Hitting a baseball: They turn 30% success rate into .300 and their are hitters in the HOF who hit .300. What other sport is there where the defense gets the offense out 70% of the time. You ALL know the answer I hope.
Pitching LOCATION is much more important than type of pitch thrown, although I was never taught to throw a poor fastball hitting player – a change-up because the change up will speed up his bat.
When our Giants try hard to not F up – and still lose and drive us crazy then the refrain I’ve grown up with – that is if your season goes 50 games or more is that Said Team did ABCDEFG and they have Nothing To Show For It.
Mariano handcuffed Gonzo in 2001 and yet his duck snort over Jeter won the WS the BACKS.
Go Giants.
WIN ONE GAME IN A ROW and for fans Practice Random Acts of Kindness
Game Notes http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/4/2/6/227093426/04.28.17_vs._SD_Game_Notes_2744lys8.pdf
PS – COME home Miss Jaymee
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/de4759d3de0eebc69a2be60a1a4e23e987abda8c3eae90c48649c24e65ba6b9b.jpg
Who will is that? Peachy?
One of his crushee’s.
Jaymee Sire, many hearts for her, really sucks about ESPN
Sam Farmer@LATimesfarmer 9m9 minutes ago
I know you’re watching the draft, but can we stop all this so I can tell you 10 concerts I attended?
(if you’re on Facebook, you’ll get it)
That is one of the dumber/more boring things I’ve seen on FB in awhile.
I know….but Sam Farmer mentioning this…in the middle of NFL Draft action (if you like that stuff)…was pretty funny.
Is there a stupider event than the NFL draft?
Is there anything stupider than Facebook?
Facebook is a quick and easy way to keep in touch with friends and family. If you know how to use it to your advantage, it’s great.
I’m with Bapah. The huge proportion don’t seem to “know how to use it”… including Zuckerberg
And Surf Maui
It’s more exhibitionism than I need and a truly susceptible doorway into one’s private life and information that I want no part of.
That’s not even considering the security vulnerabilities it has.
It’s a curse on mankind.
I use it for local news.
You know what? Maybe that’s why Bochy had Casilla face Lamb…he was trying to help Facebook.
Ok, OK, maybe a couple of things.
WWE?
WWE is more real
Well, I’ve watched maybe 2 NFL games on TV in the last 30 years, so I’m a little dated in my opinion. Out of curiosity, why would anyone want to watch the NFL draft, as opposed to maybe paint drying?
Well you’re very smart, football is a waste of time.
What gets me about the NFL draft is that it gets more attention than actual games, even playoff games in other sports, and it means nothing. 50% of these picks will never be heard of again.
1. lots of runs? yes, Shark always gives up a few, and the Giants will of course outscore that amount.
2. Span out 3 weeks
3. steadiest player: Joe Panik, with honorable mention to Matt Cain
4. Crawford only misses the bereavement list’s 3 days
5. Panik with a single and double tonight.
I already noted to Lefty that my guess was a single and double. Great minds and all that.
Alex Pavlovic@PavlovicNBCS 43s44 seconds ago
Giants confirmed a Grade 2 shoulder sprain for Bumgarner. Tentative timetable has him back right around All-Star break.
Originally thought to be Grade 1 or 2…so this is the worse of the guesses.
Sucko !
Tissue damage -> longer rehab
We all know, or should that with rehab, and conditioning, it’ll be late August or early September. And we all should start to prepare for the worst, the end of his career as we’ve known it. His motion is not shoulder friendly.
What I would like to hear is the reason a Grade 2 tear did not show up on MRI. I think the smart thing to do is to just forget about Bum this year and IF he is able to return this season count it a blessing.
The worst thing to do is hurry him back before he is FULLY healed and throwing well, and not encumbered by any pressure to be a “hero”.
Sometimes, MRI is less than definitive in soft tissue injury until days later. To my knowledge, T1 and T2 are still real and not generated by a press release.
Trying to be positive here. Wonder if the delay in diagnosis was it was borderline between 1 & 2.
Just a guess, but in my very limited experience, MRI shows soft tissue injury best a few days later. Maybe they used better instrumentation the second time through, or got better definition after swelling subsided, or both.
1. If the question implies, will the Giants score more than 1 run, I say yes.
2. 3 weeks ( including time served.)
3. Crawford
4. 3 days
5. Minimum 2 hits.
“Time served” is funny. We fans have been serving time, but certainly won’t get the sentence reduced on good behavior
Why no Posey? Any word on Crawford’s groin? Careful ladies
Regular off-day for Posey.
I thought that was yesterday. He is taking two days off in a row?
From my perch, it certainly looked like Posey could use a full day.
Bralynn reports it’s fine
She should know
1. If “high-scoring” means more than 3 runs total, than yeah, sure.
2. Bumgarner might be back before Span is.
3. Panik.
4. 10 days.
5. 2 for 4 with a walk, a double, and a run scored.
I made my estimate before reading the blog about Panik. I think the SFG will score more runs tonight but so will Padres.
Bochy is back to pulling lineups out of a hat.
Are you sure it’s his hat he’s pulling them out of?
I think parts of this lineup reflect things we at TWG have been requesting.
TO never misses a chance to dis Bochy.
Tonight’s t shirt in honor of Michael Morse. Obviously I assume they know more but Morse at first and Belt in left weakens two defensive positions. Hopefully on balance a better decision
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bfcd859007aaa3d37b3bd31fef27cd83eb9f448f85a8e8c4339646489bb77571.jpg
Doubt it. It definitely weakens both positions.
LOL – no
1.7 years
Joe Panik?
?!?!?
Superbly – this is where he fits best with this iteration of the Giants, IMO.
1. Yes (for Mays Field); 13 runs or more
2. 30 days.
3. Panik (steady “good” as opposed to steady “bad”).
4. 3 days
5. Single, double, BB, 2 R, RBI, no K (not in any particular order)
SD is hitting just .221 but has hit 30 hrs.
How many will Samarg give up?
1.8 is what his stats say in a 7 inning stent. Or were you opining for something else?
I’m good with 1.8. Giants need to bring a minimum of 4.
It’s the stupid walks that have been killing him prior to HRs.
Not opining for anything just threw it out there. That 1.8 is this yr’s 4 games?
#TeamSandro had a good night in Augusta’s win:
Fabian 2 for 4
Cabrera 1.1 IP, 1 H, 3 Ks, ERA now, 1.54, 15 Ks in 12 IP
MyGuys™
I am a member of TeamSandro
You mean they’re YourGuys™ or your name is Sandro? 🙂
A few years back, the report of the study was presented at an annual ABCA clinic, that in NCAA 1 and MLB most runs were scored in the first and 5th innings. Why? The first inning runs were attributed to pitchers not being dialed in or hadn’t thrown enough warm ups. I think of that every time we give up runs in the first. And we rarely score in the first. The 5th inning is primarily the third time thru the order.
I’m blacked out. I hate these dumb assholes and their blackouts.
Get a VPN. They’re about $4 per month.
I have one but it constantly cuts out and stalls and often repeats the same bit over again.
Cut back on the drinking 🙂
Right…
Then what? Did it help you, at all?
Just resort to only browning out instead of blacking out! 😀
Eewww, I hate browning out. I do my own laundry.
I’d sure hope so!
That was a lil Giraffe-y there
Morse comes into the game with an OPS of 5,000
2 Mikes, a Mark and a Marty, I’m guessing the umps are over 50.
At least 50 per cent correct calls
Aha! Smarge looks dialed in.
Panik with a single to lead off the game. Bochy, you’re a genius.
ownage is ownage
Second day in a row Belt’s done that. If he makes that part of his repertoire, he might hit .320 with a .420 OBP.
Bochy’s a genius.
I haven’t seen every Belt at bat, but that is the first time I’ve ever seen him with an inside out swing. And he made it look easy.
He did it yesterday, too.
I missed it.
Oh, c’mon, Pence. SMH
Can’t even move the runners. This offense is moribund.
If he’d quit collapsing out front so much he’d probably of crushed that.
Let’s go Arroyo!
That worked.
Smokes everything in the zone.
That’ll do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjQtzV9IZ0Q
Yep! One of my favorite childhood movies.
We’ll take it.
Absolutely. Only the third time this year they’ve scored in the first inning.
That memory of yours….
The beat writers have mentioned it on Twitter a few times. I get credit for remembering what I read, not every detail of every game so far.
I don’t follow twitter
Great source of real-time news.
I don’t have much time for that
Real news? 📰
That is sad.
I guess an error is how the Giants score.
Good enough
Three of my checks down in the first inning. That hasn’t happened in a while!
That’ll do too.
I’ll stand him adjusting his junk as long as he produces like that
Holy Batman Conor! 🙂
Big CG fan here.
Loving the fact that I can say to myself, he can hit, with this lineup.
These are the worst guys for Hundley to play against
I like Hundley but he looked bad on all three pitches.
3 straight curveballs, 3 straight swinging strikes. Dang.
They know his weaknesses.
Yes. They do. Hope they don’t get base runners and go delayed steal.
#PanikBeltOneTwo
Dude that old lady was totally trying to go behind that chick’s back for the ball. Geez lady. Calm it down.
AT&T Park is pitching a Shutout so far
Shark needs one bad.
Don’t think Stubbs will do any harm in CF.
I like Stubbs in CF.
Speed and a good glove. He seems to go back on the ball well too.
Maybe he’ll hit his weight.
He better start eating
Better option than a healthy Span…probably.
Nothing like finishing up a few chores and coming back to a completed quick inning. Feels like a Madison moment.
Revvvv revvv of your dirt bike?
Or James Madison?
When you think about it, riding horses is exceedingly dangerous. Guess we should all invest in bubble Wrap
I had thought about parallels too!
Swinging axes, chopping down trees, roping cattle…
Defusing bombs…
Raising cats..
Mr. Scott is missing in action!
Everything Bum does in his private life is dangerous, so all we can do is hope this is the only time it sidelines him!
Driving on highways is dangerous. Humans are unpredictable.
Yep, but Bum is a thrill-seeker, so I’ll always worry about him!
Does a Madison moment involve a dirt bike?
70 grade hit tool slapped on Arroyo not looking like such a bad call by Longerhagens at Fangraphs.
He’s channeling TG.
#MyLeadoffGuy
I’m glad Bochy reads this blog and took our good suggestion to put Panik at the top.
#MyTwoHitterGuy
If he does, I wonder who’s comment he read last season on handling the bullpen.
Pence. Stay tall please.
All 5 hits by the LH’s. RH’s with some uggly ab’s.
GG CG!
I’ll take that bet.
You betcha.
What do you feel comfortable with wager-wise?
I’ll admit it was a great play, but I’ll still take the bet.
Nicely done by crotch grabber.
Takes after former great Tug Scrotum.
Was he a disciple of Tug McGraw?
I heart Conor. I less than three him.
You sure collect a few pelts
The “I like people who make me happy” pelts, sure.
Mr. Happy and Ms. Peaches. A match made in Pacoima.
No hitter through 3 innings
Don’t jinx it!
Some folks just don’t understand the physics of baseball.
Come on, I’m just trying to be positive here.
Like I said.
It’s alright to be positive, but there are ways to do it, that isn’t one of them.
All right Bapah, my bad buddy.
It’s like a lot f things with baseball; it makes no sense, but that doesn’t make it acceptable to players, past, present and future.
And it’s not the Giants being no-hit!
Morse is playing an above average 1st base.
i’d pay big money for that hat
Ebay– or a game ticket
Who is going down when Crawford returns? A. Tomlinson B. Stubbs C. Hernandez D. Morse E. Arroyo F. Ramirez
I haven’t read anywhere the severity of Crawford’s injury. 15 day DL or the Pagan treatment: where they’ll tease putting him on there even though they should have?
He was just having his MRI today. No word yet. Remember they only have 10-day DL now.
A. if Crawford only needs the three days of leave. If he’s out longer, who knows?
Yup. If it’s longer, then it’s hard to say.
I don’t think it would be Arroyo at this point in any scenario…they didn’t bring him up for a two week look. My guess would be Hernandez, and they keep Stubbs…but the Span spot is in play for DL as well, right?
Span’s already on the DL. We got Gorkys and Stubbs for the forseeable future.
Holy Crap, was that a cricket ball in Krukow’s hand with the SF logo?
Yes
Absolutely love it. Know why?
It’s for the upcoming promo Brownie Night
I thought that was on 4/20
That was Brownie Munchie Night…
Eww
The chocolate kind, sicko
Wow that’s awesome.
Marge paying homage to Nunez on that grounder
It was Angel Pagan first
It was Barry Bonds first.
Hey, did you know that you can use that Alaska companion pass–the one you get from having the credit card–on Virgin America flights, too? Of course, I knew you could merge accounts and use miles on either airline, but it was news to me that the companion ticket thing works on VA. I know you’re a huge VA fan.
Yup…much bigger Virgin America fan than this Alaska thing, but their points Alaska are sweet
We love Alaska because they fly nonstop to Maui from Sacramento, so the companion ticket is useful for that alone. VA is less convenient because we have to go out of SFO, but every now and then we fly them. Options are good.
Yeah, you guys are Sacto folks. I’m an All In SFO guy, and that Virgin terminal is GOAT
It really is. Doesn’t American also fly out of that terminal? They’re partners with Alaska, as is British Airways.
The Sac airport is awesome for us, though–25 easy minutes from our house, easy parking, beautiful new-ish terminal with local cuisine. Other than international trips or major cross-country flights, it takes us where we need to go.
Some day I’d love to see Samarge channel his inner wide receiver and run through an infielder. Any nominees? Utley is kind of high on my list.
Is it still possible to obtain one of those orange and black Elmer Fudd hats?
Surf knows a guy who knows a surf
They’re the best! Sooooo comfy and warm. I’ve worn mine to every night game (it really brings out one’s sexiness). I’m sure you can find some overpriced ones on ebay though.
Floyd R. Turbow, the R is for Aurthur.
This is a good game and such at best, but in all concern, the Giants really need to tack on some more runs.
That friggin Schimp cocktail is annoying
Bigtime.
Are some people here going to blame me for that HR?
Well, you do need to respect how we follow traditional baseball superstitions….
Bochy’s fault– should have brought in Strickland for a clean inning
I blame the umpire behind the plate for squeezing Smardjza and making him groove pitches.
Wasn’t it the first pitch? A fastball to the leading HR hitter?
Been squeezing him the whole game.
Get that bullpen up.
No pitcher has endured the defense that Samardzija has this season
…and, that’s the price you pay for guys out of position.
Not sure Morse is any better
Like there is a choice with the current personnel– Belt does have 2 hits
No, I get it. I’m just saying, when you trade defense for offense (and I totally get why they would at this point), you have something like that happen. You just hope you can score more than you give up defensively.
Agreed–as I posted earlier I personally would have played Morse in left and Belt at first instead of weakening two positions but I guess there is concern over Morse’s leg
There are only two guys from the Opening Day lineup playing in their regular positions tonight–Panik and Pence. Yesterday it was only Pence. And there you have it, with April not even over yet.
I step out for 10 mins and they tie the game and then Gumby with the error. What happened?
Out of position or not, that was pitiful effort from belt…
It was an error, not a pitiful effort
We disagree.
Wow, shocking how he dogged it going after the ball once it got by him.
Yeah, he was lazy getting in front of it on an easy play (OF 101) and then jogged after it.
Yeah but Smarge will buckle down after the HBP, HR, 1B,E
Giants doing what they do best, again.
And here we go
Minimal damage, in the top of the 5th. But damage nonetheless.
Minimal? This team can’t even score a run. They score 2 and can’t hold the lead. Doesn’t bode well
Eat a pot brownie. You’ll relax
Way to bounce back Smarge. Come on hitters!
Time for the offense to bounce back. You know who you are.
Thank you Brandon Belt.
Atta boy BB9, way to bounce back
Pitiful double
Terrible effort. Did you see how he just jogged into second?
I swear, sometimes wish he would get traded so he could have a fan base that appreciates him. This weird indefensible dislike for the guy is such a mob mentality, which simply makes no sense.
Ridiculous. Obviously Belt would rather be playing first, where he’s outstanding, and not left, where he’s awkward. He’s taking one for the team and people are crapping on him. And he’s 3 for 3 with two runs scored.
You guys need to take a break. You’re all starting to sound like crows on a telephone line.
Fangraphs proves that no one does Blog sarcasm with as high of an OTS as Lefty and I.
Com’on Pence. Drive in a run.
Update: ouch.
How bad was Belt’s error? Didn’t see it. But at least he’s having a night at the plate.
It looked like a first baseman was playing LF.
Wonder why. Maybe it’s because their regular “left fielders” are hitting about .115 on the year.
Belt is our best hitting left fielder.
LOL, that’s true! He’s raking!
For that reason alone, I say he stays there in LF.
The pitchers might beg to differ.
Yes. And it’s not close.
Their “left fielders” have also included Aaron Hill and Eduardo Nunez. It’s downright scary when you think about it.
At least he reconciled that error.
Are you fishing for the Most Responses title? You know those Belt questions break Disqus
My bad. I was putting my daughter to bed and didn’t see it. Just curious if it was really bad or a tougher play. It’s unfair to him that because of an absolutely horseshit outfield a gold glove 1B is forced to play out there. I’m not nearly as down on Evans as everyone else is, but I’ll fully admit he totally botched the outfield.
No worries!
Another wasted out by Pence. Jeezus fng christ!!
Pence and Nunez zero discipline ! I dont mindn1 brain dead clown but 2 ?
Nunez is way, way worse. I’m over his shit.
Yes
Nunez only struck out twice this season– unfortunately both in key situations
Six times, but that’s still not very many.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nunezed02.shtml
yeah but that idiot does not know this.
I think they might at least be able to spell though.
I can spell just fine just too tired to correct the word mind!
You must be too dumb to realize that no one spells the word mind with an n at the end of it
Ah yes, that must be it…….
Morse; Professional
He hasn’t lost a step at all
Belt makes up for the error and Morse is an RBI machine
MikeyMo!
Manuel Margot is a porn name
Not unless peachy approves this post
Har dee har har. Alright guys, take it easy with bringing me into every post that’s sex-related. My patience is wearing thin lately, and a post yesterday by a person on this blog volunteering to whore me out to an umpire reallllly grated.
just when i thought “alright”…….
That lunch pale is cool.
Rully cool.
San Diego is hacking because they know Jeff Samardzija leaves the ball around the plate all the time, smart game plan.
Com’on Drew.
Hundley has been an automatic out at the plate lately.
And the list goes on..
Stubbs outdid him. It appears that that young man can’t hit.
He’s setting up for a landing on the interstate.
He has. Looks like he’s caught up in his own head. Players have that look about them when they get like that. Also known as a slump.
6 pitch inn. SMH
Why is Buster not in the game?
Bullpen needs to start warming up.
In yet another example of Fans Are Idiots: Mitch Trubisky got drafted 2nd overall by the Chicago Bears. Best moment of his life. Now, he probably isn’t a #2 overall talent, and the GM got fleeced by our very own John Lynch so said GM could be sure he got his guy…
Trubisky was shown on the a Jumbotron at the Bulls game, tonight as he attended the game after meeting his new bosses in Chicago, and got booed.
Ugggggghhhh, that’s awful. Poor guy. Like it’s his fault?
So who buys all the seats in the top LF corner that are always empty yet are deemed “sold out?” Is there a deal with one of the corporate partners to buy the remaining unsold seats?
Geez, I leave you all alone to take the kids to bed and you cannot even hold a lead at 2:0! I expect more of all of you.
Tell your kids to toughen up and ride it out.
LOL I already do bath time according to the Giants schedule. Now I can focus on the game more.
Smardge is to Jeckyl and Hyde for me
That was some battling…great pitching, Jeffrey
He held his concentration after the second out.
Why is their best hitter this season bunting right there??
I’m assuming Joe did that so that he can bat for himself… Yeah don’t do that anymore
I could see Tomlinson wearing a short sleeve yellow dress shirt, brown polyester pants, tan shoes, driving a Ford Fairlaine, selling vacuum cleaners door to door in Nebraska in the early 60’s
You’re not old enough to have seen that.
I saw it on my Zenith console TV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmOujQ3Fc0I
a little man love on your end? “he’s so nice, looks like all my friends….”
lol
He looks like shit in a poncho
I wonder if Bochy will send Tomlinson back down when Hill comes back?
Who goes when Crawford comes back?
I wish it would be Gorkys but he will probably stay as they need two AAA CFs with Span hurt.
It’s really a shame KT can’t play CF. I heard he was a disaster out there when they worked him out there the ST before last.
He has played LF before but that is a lot easier.
And that actually surprises you? lol
Unfortunately that’s probably true. Even tho Hill is a one year rental and KT is future long term.
I don’t think Hill comes back. I think he gets DFA’d. But KT will probably have to go down when Crawford comes back…even though he shouldn’t.
He does hate speed
maybe he stays or down for a short time when Nunez gets traded. They fill the same role
Terrible call — not even close to a swing.
That was a terrible call
Alright Pence
C’mon, you crazy walking nerve ending
Belt’s OBP now .400
I’m glad Pence didn’t make contact on that swing. That had DP written all over it
Didn’t really matter.
:-/
This team is really, really hard to watch.
Don’t know about putting our two hacks back to back. Sometimes you just need a single
More pain. For all the energy the 500 sellouts bring, since last years all star break, these guys won’t buy it. Damn shame.
This is the Hacktor we love.
Please don’t let this game be like yesterdays.
Certainly has a similar signature to it.
Hundley is a terrible thrower. I haven’t seen him make one decent throw this year.
Well then you missed them. He’s a decent C with a good arm.
And he’s thrown a ton of balls back to the pitcher without incident!
Probably should have ate that one — no chance he was going to be able to throw him out with that jump.
Miller said that Aybar got a good jump and he implied that Law didn’t pay much attention to him at first base.
Not just that. He doesn’t pay attention and they do delayed steals on him. Again and again. He’s always surprised.
Thank god for Arroyo. This kid is special!
Hot damn!
It’s The Ripper’s / The Thrill’s number 22 jersey!
/gets online
/orders Arroyo jersey
I wasn’t sold on him but I’m leaning that way now.
The Brownie Ringing Endorsement
100% more HRs than Posey — how crazy is that.
This kid is legit
The Kid. :o)
For all those questioning upcoming roster moves:
No, Arroyo is not going to be sent back down. Period.
Too bad he’s got no power, according to PJ.
He only has a .250 Average and a.250 OB%, not sure why this Blog likes him, 2 HRs .550 SLG% are my kind of stats , but not the Blogs !
smh
He’s a pearl.
Necklace
Bob’s your uncle
Give him a few more ABs before you send him to the dumpster.
Don’t worry. Peter is always cautious and open minded when making assessments
A joke buddy, I like power this blog likes OB% and slap hitters !
I had no idea that you made jokes, my man 😉
What kind of an idiot would be concerned about average and OB% after 16 plate app… Wait, never mind.
he should have made the team out of ST. Period.
YES
Yeah! Who posed that question down below re who goes when Crawford comes back?
Indeed, #22 has more hits, LONG hits, in it! 🙂
#BossBaby https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bf1c18f80d3167fe0ebef77899d25db33452a1bee14b38f0b07ceecc21874ef5.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f79bfc66cbd535c69a7b68f6bc085e4d21a85f440c8cc12f3c91a81b2d99318d.jpg
Thumbs, fingers, toes, _____up… 21 total
Fuck ya
I think Bochy should just bat him 3rd going forward. Enough with Nunez.
He should bat 3rd, 5th, and 7th.
And 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 9th, off the bench..
We need to clone some players. Arroyo and Panik right now.
Arroyo
There’s your 3 hitter
He should bat cleanup!
Thatta way
Melancon should get him a Rolex for that play.
Great facking play
Joltin Joe Jr. Atta babe!
If you put Stubbs and Hernandez together they are just over the Mendoza line.
Ridiculous!
What a catch — I assumed he was hurt the way things are going.
Gold. Glove.
Brand new homegrown IF again!
I loved that part when we had Duffy and felt sad when they broke it up after just a year. I’m glad we’re headed back to it. Not sure where Nunez fits, but Arroyo is both the present and the future.
Jose Rees is hitting .140
Send Nunez to the Mets
That’s a fit
Just saw the replay of Arroyo’s HR on the Giants’ website… 1-0 count, 93 mph fastball… off a left-hander… and no smile from Arroyo as he rounded the bases, as though he expected it…. although it did bring a smile to Bochy’s face during the trot.
Home runs do that
What ?
HOME RUNS DO THAT!
WHAT?!?!
H H OOO MM MM RRR U U NN N SS
HHHH O O M M M M R R U U N N N S S
H H O O M M M R R U U N N N SS
H H OO M M R R UU N N S
Whatever.
What’s a hoommmm? A mooooooooooose sound?
Yes. It’s from my great Uncle who used to call soccer games, er matches, but found when he switched to baseball, his home run call didn’t win over the station manager.
I’M SO CONFUSED!!
Efrain is right about Arroyo…this could have been an early April story: Arroyo’s 8th inning homer and Melancon’s save lead Giants to victory…..
What malarkey. He forced his way up early, and he’s doin’ it now. End of story.
He should have absolutely been on this team out of camp in my opinion. He tore it up all spring, but we like to go with guys like…..Aaron Hill. Because ….
Fk Hill. KT shoulda left camp with the team.
He wasn’t gonna start outta camp so it was better he played everyday.
Willie Mays did not come up till mid April either and led the Giants 13 game comeback to the 1951 WS.
Kid looks good but it is only 5 games– John Bowker looked good for a week also. Hope the Mays analogy is more aporopriate
Posey didn’t come up until late May 2010, either.
That will be ok too
Do you seriously think he is anything close to a Bowker comp?
Plus, let me have my arroyogasm, Pal
‘m praying for the arroorgasm if I can ha e one too. See you at Wrigley
If I were Aaron Hill I wouldn’t be signing any long term leases
Especially with Kelby doing Kelby and hitting .500 right now.
Kelbys fate is tied to Crawford for now.
what a hater that dude in PV is…..lol
Cheers Matthew!
He’s your buddy.
they are so reluctant to bring up promising players it’s unbelievable
Well, it may seem that way, but if you look around this roster, you see they have. And, as a perineal contender, their mix of vets and kids really does work.
Going back to ’09, the following kids WERE brought up: Posey, Bumgarner, Romo, crawford, Belt, Panik, Duffy, Williamson, Arroyo.
I understand that some took a while. Some didn’t go perfectly. Some “old” guys clogged the pipeline. All of that is legitimate.
The Giants lean towards trusting veteran experience. When the team loses, that is maddening. But the fact that they have virtually been in the hunt every season ( save a couple) this entire stretch means their patience and understanding of how they prefer to build has benefitted themselves and this fan base to a greater level than ANY of the other 29.
We’re spoiled. They do owe us their best, as we continue to fill the stadium and buy gear. They think they know better. They do.
Very nice post Matthew
We’re out of the cellar! 🙂
Just the way we drew it up
It was the magic Yes, Yes, Yes t-shirt!
Morse with the Sac fly
Amy : “How motivated are you to…”
Gee, no idea. Not at all. I prefer Sacramento.
That is a very poised, articulate young man. 21 years old!
He had like a 7.36 GPA in High School!
But it was only in Florida
With the exchange rate, that makes it what?
https://youtu.be/2V3CfD8TPac
As below its only 5 games so I’m reserving judgment but hopefully Arroyo is a baseball blueblood in the Clark, Posey and Panik mode. That would be nice
junior member of the posey clone army : )
D. Law ties Cueto for team lead in wins!
Vulture win
I thought a vulture win was when you give up the lead, then get the win.
You are correct I was exggerating
This might be a half vulture.
I love wins, especially when they only take 2:26! 🙂
best things tonight:
1) Arroyo going deep, showing this questionable FO he deserved to be on the squad from day one out of ST.
2) Shark pitching deep into the game.
3) Melancon pitching a 9th W/O giving up a hit or walk.
Melancon’s been on it the last three times. Those “boring” innings we were promised are finally happening.
Seems to be a good idea to bring up Arroyo from AAA and then let him play every day.
Arroyo is pretty well spoken.
4th place with a bullet!!!!!
Imagine your drowning in a toilet bowl but refuse to go down the drain. Well tonight, we just hoisted up to the rim enough to poke our heads out and peak at third place.
Still a couple of turds in that bowl
Watching Arroyo, Crawford’s groin is feeling better by the minute
So is mine
TMI
remember the song 16 with a bullet?
Got my finger on the trigger…gonna pull it
It’s seeming like Arroyo may end up being the best Giants’ story this season, maybe helping to make everything else a little more palatable.
Arroyo’s tater:
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1334033783/sdsf-arroyo-belts-a-goahead-solo-home-run-to-left/?mlbtax=home_run
How about that Panik catch? Terrific
That was a great catch. As he hit the ground, I was thinking I hope that does not tweak his cranky back.
Crawfordesque, then again I don’t think I’ve seen Crawford go a double roll.
Looks like there’s going to be a Game 7 in the LAC/Utah series. I’m beginning to really miss the Warriors, but as banged up as they’ve been, a couple extra days is a good thing. Gives the coaching staff more time to adapt to the absence of Kerr, too.
As foreign as it feels, I’m rooting for the Clips for matchup ( and Doc Rivers) purposes.
Me too, but I’m disappointed not to see Draymond drive Blake insane.
Clippers going all Santiago Casilla v Jake Lamb here!
LOL, the Clips TRIED to cough it up, but they just fell short. Barely.
I heard a report this morning on KNBR that Steve Kerr is feeling much better and may return to the sidelines during the playoffs
That would be good news, and I’m just talking about Steve’s health.
I was kind of rooting for Utah. Couldn’t help it. Would have been fun to see the Warriors play Sunday, but we’ll have to wait.
This was a very big win in the sense that the Giants are no longer the worst team in the NL.
#babysteps
Get to .500 by the all star break– get Mad Bum back in August and win the Dision going away
They’ll be at .500 by May 15.
I like it.
Lefty being positive! I love it!!
This start reminds me of the 1983 Astros. They had good veteran players, just one season removed from postseason play. Then they received one of Katy’s evil schedules that had them starting the season with a 9-game West Coast roadie, which was always a nightmare for them. They returned home 0-9. It took them until August to climb into contention before fading again in late September, finishing 10 games above .500. That might have been good enough for the WC had it existed then. So I’m not giving up on the Giants!
Bumgarner is out 3 months. The question I have is that before he starts throwing and buidling arm strength or is that when he is MLB ready throwing 92-94 ?
BTW what’s up with Trevor Brown?
Seeing that Hundley is not exactly burning it up offensively or defensively
I was thinking that myself
Sorry, but Hundley is still a dramatic upgrade on Brown. Please don’t let a 10 at bat slump paint a guy’s ability.
Additionally, Hundley’s ability to call a game is a world ahead of Brown, and his connection to Melancon in and of itself gives him another edge
All of a sudden, there isn’t much room for Mac. #Who’sInLeft?
Mac 0-4 2k’s tonight. Now .167 …but you probably already knew that..
Still room if he can hit more
He’s gotta play his way on while someone plays way off.
The competition now is nunez i guess. He’s in a serious slump and his play in left is a disaster waiting to happen.
The strange thing about arroyo making the majors now is that the guy he’s apparently replacing isn’t injured or playing particularly badly.
“the kid stays in the picture” —- you can always count on ray woodson for an old hollywood quote [also used on 55 in 2007 — can it really be 10 years since it all began ???
Have a night Dillon Dobson (SJ) !4 for 4, 3 HRs, 5 RBIs!
Did they win?
Yes. 11-5
Sweet.
Where’d he play?
Appalachian State
I meant what position, Joe Elliot.
Dobson played 2B. Now hitting .340. Ryan Howard (3B) went 2-4, now hitting .330. Bryan Reynolds (CF) went 0-3 plus a BB, now batting .282. Who is the guy who was the SP, Mike Connolly? Never heard him mentioned here on the blog before. Is now 2-2… with a 1.69 ERA!
Noce gets credit on Connolly …he is the only one who picked him as his MyGuy™.
No one picked Dobson who had a good year in Augusta last year with a 124 wRC+ and finished MyGuy2016™ as the #8 in improvement. The high wRC+ score will make it hard to repeat but he does get a 25% bonus right off for playing in San Jose. His current wRC+ is 128. He is listed as a 1B in Fangraphs® so he may be a SuperUt in the making.
the defending champ is looking to go back to back.
Good MyGuy™ winner knowledge.
Our Aramis Garcia pick was looking good until a concussion … should be back very soon if he is okay.
a man without a position is better than a man without a country, George Eliot.
I can’t wait to slap you.
Is there anyone else down in the minors that can hit beside Christian Arroyo? If you listen to Evans no one is ready!
Don’t listen to Evans. Usually the opposite of what he says is true.
Wow wow I was thinking that about an hour ago
Doesn’t matter. They’ll promote Upton when he gets off the DL over the deserving rookies….if there is one.
Panik was not ready, Duffy was not ready, heck even Buster was not ready. Bum he was called up and sent back down because he was not ready as he had some mechanical issue that his Fast ball was barely 90 at the time.
Very small sample size, but I’m calling it: Arroyo gets the Willie Mac Award this year.
Arroyo has been good in the Morse era 😉
Keep playing like this, and he could get the Jackie Robinson Award.
Settle for ROTY
Same thing.
If not for Morse and Arroyo, the Giants probably have 2 more losses instead of wins. The call ups so far has worked out very well.
Just returned home from a good night at the ball park. A win and little traffic either to or from the game. Good non Friday night crowd. Things tend to get a little weird on Friday nights but not tonight. I caught Joe Panik kissing his bat or so I think he does just before he walks to home plate. I like our closers entry music AC/DC Thunderstruck.
What is the flag they raise on the left field foul pole, not enough to unfurl it?
The victory heart SF flag. Inspired by Tony Bennett; at his birthday game last year they announced it would become a tradition to raise that flag after every win.
I don’t know if I care for the flag. Not as bad as hearing that douchey Cubs song after every win at Wrigley. I still have a bias for Tony’s voice after every Giants win though.
I don’t remember then doing it last year. Thanks for the info.
Well, they weren’t winning much in the second half. 🙁
I saw that smooch too!
He learned how to kiss bats from Bruce Bochy.
Trade Nuñez to the Mets for a couple or three prospects. We get some futures out of the deal for a change and Nuñez gets to be an everyday guy in their infield, considering EN is going to get bumped once Craw gets back. Span or Stubbs to LF? Drew might not hit yet, but he is quick, has speed and seems like a good baseball guy. Who knows. He may click and the hits will come. When Upton gets here, he could be the LF. Or Belt in LF, considering Posey, Connor and Morse play first base. But don’t waste Nuñez on the bench. He’s not a off the bench guy and still has trade value. It’s dumb to keep him and not fair to him.
I guess my dream of seeing Hwang up with the big club was dashed when Upton and Stubbs were signed.
Le sigh….
Might be a tad early, unless the Mets are desperate. Aw, you’re right, we got KT now.
I like Stubbs too, but man, can he do ANYTHING with a bat?
Just got home and watched the highlights. All these inguries could be a blessing in disguise. Cause no way Arroyo would be up here If everyone was healthy.
Going to be tough to keep Kelby on the roster when Hill comes back. Kelby’s only batting .380 points higher, I doubt that will impress Bochy.
K or K said after Kelby’s running catch in foul territory a few games ago that he could play centerfield. If only that were true, this team’s offense would look completely different.
Seems like it won’t hurt too much defensively to have Morse play 1st. The problem is that it seems that it will hurt defensively to have Belt play left.
Not to rain on the parade but Arroyo’s hard-hit % is only 20%. When he isn’t crushing the ball he’s looking pretty weak.
Nice comeback from Samardzija to get out of the jam in the 7th.
Greg Holland has 10 saves already. 10.
Really enjoying the love shown to Jeffrey Leonard this weekend. The hat looks fantastic. He looks great. And it’s nice to be reminded of how much fun we had in the 1987 playoff run.
http://www.oneflapdown.org/
A Kevin Mitchell one-hand-grab bobblearm would be a good promotion. Kevin was at opening day a few years ago and looked great. Hope he’s doing well.
BobbleArm™ or even BobbleArm® … never heard of that before. You need to license it.
Another great thing about The Game, honoring the past.
I’ve enjoyed it too!
The 1987 Team Reunion Bobblehead “set” includes Mitchell catching the ball one-handed. You can see it on eBay.
Good call https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/86a20f7c4e12df0a4449301f6b3270f9fef5df8edd8bae4ca13cd8111f074c4e.jpg
That 1987 team WAS fun–“humm babies” and the great trade for Mitchell/Dravecky/Lefferts on July 4. The seven-game loss in the playoffs turned me into a Cardinals-hater forever. It was heartbreaking, after going 16 years between playoff appearances. At least we got even with St. Louis in 2002, 2012, and 2014.
All those F***ing cow bells, what class fans they have in St. Louis. But that was fun team. Garrelts wearing glasses and playing pro ball, Moon man Minton, Youngblood coming off the bench in big moments. And of course the 1, 2, 3 punch of Clark, Mitchell and Williams.
Loved both those guys. Animals in LF, and Hac was fleet too.
Gutsy pitching performance last night. Smardzija got himself out of 2nd and third 1 out trouble without allowing any runs. A hit there could have spelled another loss. Instead he manned up got a K or 2 and the Giants were in the game.
It was the 7th inning, too.
SF GIANTS LINEUP MOST DAYS
1 CF
2 Panik 2B
3 Posey C
4 Pence RF ( potential hole)
5 Crawford SS
6 Arroyo 3B
7 Belt 1B
8 LF
9 P
3 empty spaces in our everyday lineup every single day! I dont necessarily agree with this lineup that i present to you but no matter how you slice it there are 3 automatic outs in there everyday! 4 automatic outs if you want to include Pence! Buster must be hitting the softest 350- 360 ish that i ever saw before with only 1 round tripper. Belt has no problem getting on base and leads the team with 4 HRs if only he could hit with a little more authority he’d be legit.Arroyo sure is showing Bob Evans that he is nowhere near ready for the big club…those guys have issues with youngsters coming up!
Gotta have Belt and his walks and maybe now all those hits batting up top, setting up whoever can hit the ball in the middle of the lineup – so yeah, Panik 1 and Belt 2, setting the table for the rookie Arroyo – LOL.
But that’s the problem footy
Belt gets on base for whom?
Who’s hitting him in?
Drop him in the order so he can hit people in.
Arroyo hits them in , since he’s the only guy with the appetite to do so!
Panik
Belt
Pence
Posey
Arroyo
Crawford
Morse
Stubbs
Pitcher
Much better.
Except belt or morse is playing lf:-(
It’s crazy, but this may be the shock to the system that the offense needs. Barring Arroyo’s big hits, the blood of the offense is very iron deficient!
The Kid is completely changing the dynamics of the lineup. Who knew. (Besides Mateo and his pal.) :o)
Missed that. I was looking up top. Morse is not a starter anymore Period
P.S. Belt is the 1st baseman, EOS.
Belt’s OBP is .390 and Posey’s hitting .357 but only has 3 RBIs. Maybe they should figure out how to put them closer together in the lineup…
Baby steps for Bochy, he just figured out he should put Panik the teams best hitter at leadoff after how many games.
I’ve criticized him a lot for not mixing up the lineup last year when the team was in a funk for months. Credit where it’s due: At least he’s trying new things this year.
The first half of last year when the Giants were the best team in baseball
Belt always hit 5th/6th
I think the “Belt hitting 2nd” theory is great but this team needs more production and hitting him lower really might help..
But Panik has got to be in the 1 or 2 slot
And I would put the kid Arroyo in the 3 slot..
Belt #7 with his OBP?
Belt as of this minute: .265/.390/.506/.896, OPS+ of 140. Leading the team in HRs, SLG, and XBH, career high in pitches per plate appearance at 4.21.
At last, we don’t have to try and defend him against his many critics.
Well, I will admit he’s not a very good left fielder.
We know where he IS good. Almost without peer in MLB.
And just wait ’til he starts hitting!
He hasn’t really gotten on one of his hot streaks yet, has he? Maybe last night– 3 for 3 and on base four times–was a start. I like that he’s twice gone the other way for hits the last couple days. Watch out, league, if that becomes consistent.
In league with the Giants minor affiliates …
Tacoma 2, Sacramento 1
Calixte 0 for 4 – .239 avg
Hwang 2 for 4 – .303 avg
R. Jones 0 for 4 , 2 K – .333 avg
Ruggiano 1 for 4, 2 K – .206 avg
Williamson 0 for 4, 2 K – (4 for 24 w/9 Ks on rehab)
Slater 0 for 4, K – .275 avg
Moncrief 1 for 2, 2B (3), BB – .333 avg
Roth 5 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 2 K – 4.08 ERA
Osich IP, Klean
Hartford 2, Richmond 1
Heathcott 0 for 3, BB, K – .269 avg
Shaw 0 for 3, BB, K – .286 avg
D. Davis 2 for 3, BB
H. Cole 2 for 4, 2 2B (7), K – .206 avg
Sam Coonrod 6 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, BB, 7 K, HR – 3.15 ERA (sub-1 WHIP, 25 K and just 2 BB in 20 IP so far…)
C. Jones IP, Klean
R. Moronta IP, KKlean
San Jose 11, Stockton 4
Dillon Dobson 4 for 4 with 3 HRS and 5 RBIs !!!
Jalen Miller 1 for 4, .266 avg
R. Howard 2 for 4, – .330 avg
B. Reynolds 0 for 3, BB, K – .282 avg
G. Brusa 1 for 3, HR, 3 RBI, BB, K – .188 avg
M. Connolly 7 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 5 K, HR – 1.69 ERA
Augusta 3, Greenville 2
Sandro Fabian 2 for 4, K – .263 avg. (nice, MyGuy and G’s Top 20 prospect starting to take flight!)
J. Heyward 0 for 4, K – .154 avg
Tyler Brown 1 for 3, BB – .273 avg
Melvin Adon 6 IP, 2 H, ER, 0 BB, 6 K – 2.55 ERA ( another of MyGuys in the Top 20 loookin’ goood…Sub 1 WHIP, 20 Ks in 17.2 IP)
Sandro Cabrera 1.1 IP, H, 0 BB, 0 R, 3 K – 1.54 ERA
Nice to see a couple of Caribbean prospects start to do what the scouts expect !
#TeamSandro
Elite groups of TWG Scouts:
Fabian … Bapah, bst, cc, Crawnik, Foots, DrLefty, PandaPuffs
Heyward was the top vote getter with 11.
Say Hey !
Now, that is MY GUY #24.
I thought I had Fabian. Not sure of my picks. Probably should have written down. lol
You do have him … you are “bst” on this esteemed list.
Boy Am I a lamer?
2nd time screwed up that way in my eyes not seeing and relating to bst. excuse me!!
Not a problem; I am a slow typer and use such shorthand. Cut and Paste will help me fix this for next time; it is a good handle.
Thanks, Footy. Good to see my guy Hwang continue to play well. Will be sure he’ll play in another uniform other than orange and black by the end of the season however.
He better get decent in LF cause ain’t nothing gonna be available on the IF. Also get his power going!
He has 0 errors in 2 games in the OF! and has a 1.000 fielding percentage. Lol.
Put him in, coach!
“No errors” doesn’t mean “good.” I saw him play LF about a week ago. Not a pretty sight.
Of course not, Doc. That’s why I put “lol” because I’m aware 0 errors doesn’t necessarily mean he played well out there.
I expect (hope?) that Hwang comes up in mid-June, with some valuable experience playing every day, and contributes in LF. He’d be a fun guy to root for, and could also be quite influential in converting the Korean fans away from those hated blue guys.
Please keep that guy Roth away from ATT.
It’s fun to watch MyLocalGuy Aaron Judge take flight. He is a genuinely nice kid.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1332388683/balnyy-judge-crushes-home-run-at-1194-mph/?game_pk=490431
BOOM! Fresno State Bulldog too!
Smart kid was drafted out of HS but took the time to go to college for a few years. If not he might be playing for Oakland.
If you scroll to the middle of the page linked here, you see photos of the top 12 Giants players in WAR so far. Footy and Efrain will note the, uh, lack of diversity here, but it is what it is: Span is injured (and wasn’t playing well), Nunez is already at almost -1 WAR, and Cueto has been “meh” (-0.1 in BBR and 0.0 in FG WAR).
Kelby Tomlinson makes the top 12 after three games. LOL
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2017.shtml
I used to wonder why Caucasians were called “Caucasians”. Oh, a mountain range in Eurasia…
http://www.freeworldmaps.net/asia/caucasus/caucasus-map.jpg
Nice map!
If Noah’s Ark came to rest at Mount Ararat, kind of makes sense that this would be a hot bed for re-civilizing earth. Look at that lush valley between the mountains!
This is just about the most tribal part of the world: language and religion groupings dividing up the “white people”. We are all the same species!!!! The world needs all genders and colors and religions to be equal. And not just on the diamond.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus
It sure seems hard to place those “Early San Diegans” on this map 130,000 years ago!
http://bighistoryu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Early-human-migration-map.png
Are you saying that San Diego is NOT the cradle of civilization?
Cradle of beach bums like you. Your a beach Bum!
Thanks for the PJ spelling lesson.
I’m pretty sure he’d prefer you call him a beach Giant.
I used to live 50′ from the water; not anymore, I live in the wine grape area in the “mountains”. I’m closer to Boch and Flann than PB.
I’ve been trying to give him a really hard time without being too big of a jerk. I may cross the line at times.
Another nice map.
hell even i knew this lol
Small sample size for KT, so I wouldn’t put him up there yet for WAR personally.
Pathetic using race when numbers say it all….what Gary Radunich would do.
I don’t think that she is suggesting anything more than KT should be on the big club and not in Sacto.
…which I’ve been saying consistently since spring training. Every time he comes up, he picks up where he left off: hitting. He’s a good hitter and a good base runner, and they can use both.
And a burner. Didja see that foul-line catch he made near the bp mound 2 nights ago. Covered about 40 yards in less than 5 seconds.
It just shows who’s NOT up there–Cueto, Moore, and Samardzija, Nunez, Span, and anyone who’s played LF (not counting Belt). When Arroyo and KT, just called up this week, are already more “valuable”–well, you begin to see why they’re 9-15. Interesting to see four relievers in the top 12, too. Relievers don’t usually rack up the WAR very quickly.
Ah Haaa! The report (on BUM) this morning IS that the Grade 2 WAS visualized by MRI. It was just kept under wraps until all the consults (Andrews) were in.
Yep. He’s out until at least after the break.
Is that on a scale of 3, like shoulder separations?
Yes.
Roughly, Strain, Tear, Separation.
Someone responded to the comment “the Giants just need to survive April” by asking:
what do you mean by “survive”?
They are on their way to surviving “the month that was”. Split the Dodgers, and win 2 of 3 from Padres and they will finish 10-16. Obviously not good, but then focus playing .500 for a month. It has been a while since they had a >.500 month. Check that box off, then set up for some kind of run that can bring then to .500 overall and maybe above .500 depending on how “hot” a streak is. Maybe finish with 82-85 wins, somehow, and have a horse in the Wild Card race.
Fk that – sweep the Pads. 11-15.
Now you’re talkin’!
Cain and Blach …
I can see the SFG at .500 by mid to late May but then I am always a SFG optimist.
Aside from MadBum, the situation does look better than 2 weeks ago.
what a difference an Arroyo makes!
Together We’re Righteous
-1
Too much time blogging. C u’s later.
Vamos, Gigantes! (I still miss SFVegas.)
Can I -1 you for stuff?
-1
Together we”re self-righteous?
Flying Squirrels RHP Sam Coonrod is rocking a ridiculous 32.9 K% through 4 starts. Has just 2 walks and 15 hits in 20 innings.
MyGuy, he’s a tough looking dude on the mound. Strong 94-96 cruising speed – has some reach back too. His slider may have come around this year. At the very least, he’s an MLB bullpen piece. Starter future very much alive.
Perhaps 2019 or 2020 as a starter.
MyGuy, Adon, is 3rd at 29.4 K%.
No matter how bad the team in general looks, it’s hard not to feel happy about them when you feel like they just brought up a 21-year-old who’s got a great future.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/arroyos-blast-propels-giants-to-victory-over-padres-4-3/
Disqus is acting weird again. Ignore the posts below from a few months back.
Start another thread to see if it can be dumped.
Of all the conversations in all the months in all the years, Disqus dredges up one of mine.
I don’t believe in Karma either.
Quite unbelievable, just like Giants baseball right now.
Did it run over somebody’s dogma?
You just leaked your deep cover identity!
Not really, Ryan, but very funny all the same.
Greek may be doing this by design. It’s sort of a means to hold people accountable and present opportunity for “gotcha” moments. I may have been singing the praises of some dud.
I’ve been told God does not play dice with the universe.
GG impresses me as a straightforward guy, the opposite of underhanded.
Well, he does. But he has them made in that Mexican factory where they made em for Danny Ocean’s crew. A winner every time!
Glad to have you back!
Thanks GG. I’ll try to keep from voicing my strong opinions about dirt bikes from now on. Although I did recently upvote Lefty’s “ex-dirt bike” comment!
Funny.
How’s your summer been going? Did you go to Europe?
Even 82 games out, Bochy won’t loosen up and try to play a little more aggressively. So, with a fast runner at first and the pitcher up, he does one of the worst things he can do, and he calls for a bunt. If the runner were at second, when a bunt would greatly improve the chances for scoring, Bochy wouldn’t do it. But he’ll give up an out in a meaningless game rather than try to steal the base and really make something happen. A small thing, but indicative. Not Hall of Fame stuff
It seems a good skipper would know his personnel and their capabilities better.
Guess who?
https://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/queeg-on-bridge.jpg
Mayhaps this one gets consummated soonest. Got to love the approaching trade deadline: a player gets scratched and the immediate assumption is happy trails. Happened with JD Martinez, scratched for a tight back yesterday. And for Nationals Uber prospect, Victor Robles, down a Single A – scratched for some minor injury. Oh, and I think some here speculated that Belt’s minor wrist sprain was a prelude to donning the pinstripes. Nope, that distinction will belong to the player yonder, across the bay.
http://m.yankees.mlb.com/news/article/242806292/yankees-athletics-talking-trade/
Morosi not throwing shade/distraction? Hmmm….
Poor Bobby E can’t play in that sand box with Billy.
AND the prospects at Charleston should truly interest SFG if they were paying attention.
We certainly have heard word of them paying much attention anywhere.
Are yo borrowing a n’t ?
grazi
this is the one, a baserunning gaffe, or teachable moment:
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/887136463594414081
A ploy. No doubt about it.
Well, word on the street is that the Nats may not be done reconfiguring their pen. May want to go for the gold with Britton as the doomsday device. That would require a prospect of Robles stature.
Gotta get Dusty that ring, at any cost.
Maybe BB9 will suffer a baserunning ..giraffe? Maybe.
For those of you (us) hopping that we can make some trades before the deadline to put out a better team next year, I hate to break the news. We have no one who anyone wants and certainly not pay a reasonable price for. So at the risk of quoting Donald Rumsfeld, unfortunately, “you go to war with the army you have.”
There are known knowns.These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.
-Rummy
There are no unknown unknowns or unknown knowns, but maybe some known unknowns. I just don’t know.
Maybe not next year, but maybe get some prospects that help us down the line?
We’ve got some pitchers that I would hope can get something.
With a comeback year in 2018 and the opt out out of the way, Cueto could be much more valuable at next year’s deadline.
With a comeback year why would you trade him?
Because they’re not going to contend next season.
(a) it is silly to say now that they can not contend next season and (b) what about 2019 and 2020? You simply do not trade a once in a generation player in the peak of his career when there is even the slightest possibility of contending.
Mike Kessler
518 428-0444
Board Certified Medical
Malpractice (American Board of
Professional Liability Attorneys)
Board of Directors,
NY Academy of Trial Lawyers
Selected for Best Lawyers in America
Selected for NY Superlawyers
Ok. I’ll give you a call in a few minutes.
Again? Geez, Mike.
If Bumgarner puts together a couple more good starts in a row, he could become the most valuable player on the market, if they were so inclined.
Never–you dont trade once in a generation players. Period
TO gave Duvall a cheer, but it’s an interesting observation. Last year Duvall had 16 DRS, this year at the break 2. It’s not just him, DRS performance has collapsed across the board in the NL, but not in the AL. Sort of weird, IMO.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/White-noise.png/400px-White-noise.png
Could you translate without hurting yourself.
That is some high throughput pudding you have between your ears.
So no.
It’s a lie detector test where they asked him if he actually loves the Dodgers. He said “no”
That’s just mean in our times of trial this season.
His quiz was about league leading assists….I actually think he leads in that category for assisting Duvall as much as he does
Assists that don’t offer an offensive positive are like whipped cream on coffee.
If it has collapsed across the board, doesn’t that make it pretty obvious that the “stat” isn’t really an accurate measure of anything?
Only in the NL. Your religious objection to logic and analysis is noted. Stats are just rational summaries to data.
HR being up across the board makes it pretty clear that those aren’t an accurate measure of power, I guess. It’s weird how people always have a mindset of a shift in defensive stats means that the stats are “broken” and can’t be trusted.
Because it’s not really a stat.
Who do you feel it is representing inaccurately?
Joe Panik.
You like the guy, but he’s hardly a specific case. In any case, it the OF and LF numbers that are the issue.
It involves human judgements and estimations. That’s not really a statistic.
Cool, who is inaccurately being represented by it?
Lefty offered up Joe Panik. That’s not a bad example. You’ve had no response. Like a lot of so-called “advanced” stats, DRS is a discussion point, not a precise measure of anything. If one player is +7 and another is +9, it doesn’t necessarily mean the guy with the +9 is a better defender. It’s still a subjective question. If there was no DRS, people would still know that Brandon Crawford is an excellent defender. If there was no WAR, Mike Trout would still be considered one of the best, most valuable players in the game.
LOL.
Well reasoned.
How can you reason with someone who lives in a 2D world about a 3D one. It’s reasonable to be a skeptical consumer of a statistical argument, but not to just rejected out of hand. That’s more an attribute of a Luddite, not a skeptic. Or, LOL, as a I said. Do you believe in climate change and the analysis of the data supporting it? If you do, ask yourself why?
Not all stats are accurate without context, and some are inaccurate within their context. A pitcher’s W-L tells me as little as possible about a game, mainly that they happened to be pitching while their team won. DRS seems to match up extremely accurately to my eye test, and these people watch even more games than I do. There are going to be some outliers (I thought Machado is low this year, but his bat has also completely gone off a cliff), but people seem to have weird reactions when people have a sky high DRS one year and a negative one the next, as if defense is any more consistent than hitting.
It’s a categorical determination amenable to statistical representation.
Statistics requires just as much human judgement and estimations. Because you don’t recognize it, doesn’t make it so.
What are you talking about? A home run is a home run. An RBI is an RBI. There’s no judgement involved
Perhaps there should be. Some RBI are far more important than others.
An error is an error. A fielder’s choice isn’t a hit, maybe. A single being a double if the guy takes second. Finally a ball and a strike. BTW, an RBI isn’t always an RBI when assigned. Baseball is full of situational ‘if’.
You know if you’d engage and just look at the numbers year on year, you might have some fun, and maybe learn something. Heck, maybe my take on it is wrong, and you can rub my nose in it. 😉
The complex Sabermetric statistics do involve a lot of observer eye test judgments. However, ordinary stats on procedures like polling have to guess at a lying factor so they just assume that liars are evenly split among the various choices in the poll. Statisticians make many a priori assumptions when choosing a stat to represent what a data graph is saying to them.
Rather than debate the data, it seems to me to be an odd anomaly (the DRS weirdness), but might be interesting to try an understand. I haven’t looked at pitching numbers, or even thought about it much, but something seems odd. Especially in a team/fanbase that has been abused by its defensive ineptitude. I wonder if it’s the shift fetish?
I get the skepticism, but I also think in some cases, the stat bears out the eye test. Denard Span being at -15 doesn’t surprise me a bit. Crawford being substantially down from his two Gold Glove seasons rings true, too.
Span and McCutchen about dead even at the bottom. Not too far behind is Charlie Blackmon, Dexter Fowler, and Keon Broxton.
You have to be, IMO, a cautious consumer of stats like DRS when evaluating performance at a position where interplayer synergy and defensive positioning (the shift) play such an enormous part in what a players skill set ‘plays’ like on the diamond.
https://i.imgur.com/iR5CB69.png
Has DRS “collapsed” across the board? The usual suspects (Betts, Gordon, Simmons, Kiermaier) are all still putting up big numbers, clankers like McCutchen and Kemp are still putting up low numbers. Last year’s +/- DRS was +80, this year it’s already +130.
From what I saw with a cursory look, the guys still looking ‘normal’ were all in the American League when you rank them. Even former NL players in the AL (Upton) had good numbers. I’m just curious if there is a their, there.
The first NL guys I looked up (basically the two I think of when I think “great defense”) were Arenado and Heyward, and they were at +17 and +10 respectively (with Heyward missing significant time). There does seem to be an uptick in the AL, but there are also more GMs prizing defense these days.
Where can the Giants find a Kaiser Soze of the outfield?
They already found him since the revolving door between us and AAA has fictionalized several AAA OF as MLB players. For those who think Foots has gone nutters, you have to watch “The Usual Suspects” to understand the Kaiser Soze reference but it’s worth it … great film.
I am nutters. Any anybody who isn’t nutters in this day and age is the crazy one.
Judging by their DRS I’d say Kaiser Soze has been playing the outfield all year.
You can use this spreadsheet of ‘league leaders’ to look at the ranking of players by position, year, league, stat, if you want to.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2014&month=44&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0
It’s easy enough to bring up the pages with the DRS stats but that would be a helluva time sink to do year to year comparisons for individual players especially for a casual fan like me who doesn’t know which key players to look for as Eric does. You give tough homework, CC.
I think I might have what Mark Melancon has. No, not a $62 million contract. A flexor strain. I looked it up to see the difference between “flexor” and “pronator.” Pretty sure it’s the flexor.
It’s not keeping me up nights, and the occasional dose of Ibuprofen keeps in at bay, but I can see why one wouldn’t want to throw a baseball with it.
How much have you lost off of your fastball?
Luckily, I can blow people away with my wit, charm, and vocabulary.
But I will take it easy and try to avoid Tommy John surgery.
Will we be soon calling you DrRighty?
It is indeed my left arm that’s afflicted. 🙁
Sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.
Thanks.
But you’ve still made every start.
I’m a gamer. And a straight-up G.
Gamer Babe ?
I hope you feel better soon.
Ditto, Lefty.
Hope you avoid TJ but not the typewriter.
Normally the pain shows up after a return from Maui where one could possibly strain the flexor by lifting said glass to ones lips….over and over and over again.
You may be onto something there.
Just avoid that buyer’s remorse stuff. I hear it can really bring you down. Speedy recovery to you.
especially where there is absolutely no point at all to having Melancon pitch this season. On the other hand, we need your typing to keep going!
Lefty’s typing would be sorely missed. I learn so much from her deep knowledge of the farms and her eye test observations on players.
Thanks, E. More coming tonight. Mr. Lefty and I are going to the River Cats game with the Crawniks.
Interestingly, it doesn’t bother me when I type. It’s not in my wrists or hands–upper forearm by my elbow.
So would you list yourself as day-to-day?
Look at the muscles used in throwing the cut FB, particularly the finger pressure. I think that may be the bump in the road.
How is your fastball velocity?
My first question is, what have you been throwing?
(FYI)
(It’s been a long time, but) the flexor tendon (common flexor tendon) attaches several muscles to a bone (humorus).
The pronator (pronator teres) is a muscle. Pronator(s) and extensor(s) work in opposition to one another. There are several pronators in the arm (as there are for other extremities).
I woke up with it sore about a week ago and thought I’d just slept on it wrong. I have an autoimmune thyroid disorder, and sometimes I just wake up with things hurting–in the past, both shoulders (at different points in time), most recently, my ankles and nasty cramps in both feet.
I don’t play baseball or really even throw things other than the dog’s ball for fetch, so I’m going to guess it’s just random inflammation. Aging sucks.
Boy, does it ever.
Thyroid issues are way out of my wheelhouse, I just remember that there can be a relation, maybe distant, between AI thyroid and RA. My BroInLaw has RA and has adopted a religious exercise campaign that works for him. Low impact exercise and general strength training should work for both. It makes a difference. I’m sure you’re doing these things already.
Yep. There is increased risk for RA w/my AI condition (Hashimoto’s). I’ve been pretty lucky with it compared to some people, but there are definitely things to learn. I also drive to Marin several times a year to see a more modern endocrinologist than the local guy who would just throw a prescription at me once a year.
By all means, find a knowledgeable and experienced endocrinologist. My BIL is in LA or I’d find out who his is. Stay attentive, especially with meds and new developments.
Ouch http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4706176/Brewers-Stephen-Vogt-taken-field-clash.html
I think the rule needs an overhaul. I think the Rizzo collision should demonstrate that the runner should not be allowed to have a running lane that’s inside the baseline. The so-nicknamed “Posey Rule” just says that the runner can’t go out of his way to hit the catcher while establishing his own running lane. Well, Rizzo chose an inside the baseline running lane and he’s allowed that choice. If front of the plate is mandated catcher’s ground then on/outside the baseline should be the mandated runner’s choice.
I saw it. It was just one of those things that can happen. Bad throw. Clean play. Every base can’t be like first base.
Good points….maybe that is why where the catcher sits aka squats is known as the catchers box.
I sure would like to upvote 610nm’s “enog gnol” comment above. It’s at the very least a double-meaning comment, if not triple.
I went shopping for egg nog for some reason.
610 is a philosopher and a fan.
It is Michael Scott’s joke, actually, to give credit where it is due. I just kind of turned it around on TO. Everyone knows that Duvall should have been kept, but there’s no way to rewrite history. klim tlips, in other words.
The Rays land Chaz Roe instead of Hunter Strickland. Well, maybe that’s not entirely true, but it does sound like they ordered off a sushi menu. Char roe is probably pretty good…
http://www.hookhack.com/img/arcticchar_adult.jpg
The true master of the Telecaster. A peerless guitarist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jmeU505GI
Ohhh yeah!! Open it up, Danny!!
He sounds familiar.
Familiar, all right. He sounds like The Humbler, Danny Gatton. One and only. Greatest rockabilly player I’ve ever heard, and this is from my favorite rockabilly album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTdzOWkeu-U
I would imagine that most here are solid, successful people in life. Attaining that position has no doubt required the ability to make responsible decisions, to think beyond the moment, and to always keep the future in mind. I imagine most have had the self-discipline to put aside instant gratification and save to buy their house, or put their kids through school. I doubt many have racked up crippling credit card debt. But that’s life, not baseball.
Which brings me to Bumgarner. Most seem to be very much against my idea that they should seriously consider trading him, but it seems like the opposition is most often based on emotion. People don’t want to see a great player leave, but don’t want to seriously consider the potential benefits vs. the risk involved in not doing so. As the no doubt very smart and successful Surf Maui said below, “Never–you dont trade once in a generation players. Period.”
At the same time, if you take the emotion out of it, I think most would have to agree that the odds would be very much against Bumgarner continuing to pitch to the standard he has established throughout the course of what could be an extremely expensive next contract. In fact, we’ve all seen the very same thing happen to former stars Lincecum and Cain. While it’s not the fans’ money, a bad contract can affect the team’s chances. But none of that seems to matter. People would just hate to see him leave, and that’s all that’s important. Maybe that’s one way that baseball is an escape from the responsibility of everyday life. The moment matters more than the future.
I think you’re right about all of it. He has great value and could bring a package of players that would help. The risk that his best years will be behind him after 2019 is substantial.
And yes, emotionally I don’t want him to go. I’m more attached to him than I am even to Buster Posey. What Bumgarner accomplished in 2014 was so remarkable, so exciting, that it’s hard to imagine letting go of the guy who made that happen any earlier than we must.
But objectively speaking, I can’t argue with any of your points.
What Bum accomplished in 2014 has never been accomplished before. I have never seen a more focused, more driven, more selfless performance in any sport. I’m not so sure he’s anywhere close to being past his prime. Not even hit his prime yet. Still young. The guy is a horse. Built for the long haul like no other athlete. You don’t trade strengths like that. You build around them. Trading him is not only wrong from an emotional standpoint, but even more so from an intelligent standpoint.
Trading Madison Bumgarner is asinine. He’s 27. I could see if he was 35.
Trying to determine what kind of pitcher he’s going to be at 32, 33, 34 and 35 is one of the most important considerations in whether he should be traded when he’s 27.
Of course. I just think this speculation is a bit premature. And you’re going off the precedent set by Lincecum and Cain capsizing. But I think Lincecum was a freak (pun greatly intended) of nature physically, and couldn’t be counted on for the long haul, endurance-wise. Cain simply got hurt. Focusing on those two terrible finishes doesn’t necessarily apply to Bumgarner. Again, especially when he’s 27. Think of these things when he’s 32. He’s done so much for this franchise, why wouldn’t he do more? Not too many players I’d ever rather have on my team, performance-wise and for the example he sets (this year’s bonehead injury accident excluded).
Lincecum and Cain aren’t the only pitchers who became ineffective as they got into their 30s. If it happens to Bumgarner, the Giants may still owe him $100 million, or more.
Probably more. You know he’ll get a gargantuan contract. But since he’s more of a once in a lifetime type pitcher, more special than any pitcher we’ve had since Marichal, I say you keep him, based on that. Only detriment is if he’s doesn’t come back from the injury 100%, and there’s no cause to think that’s gonna be the case.
he’s pitched one game so far, you nor anyone here knows what’s to come.
I hear ya. I’m just not seeing anything so far that would indicate he’s not gonna bounce back from the injury. It doesn’t appear to have been career-threatening. He returned in months. The guy is the greatest competitor I’ve ever seen and I think he’ll be back with a vengeance.
maybe, but Oracle is right that there have been plenty of pitchers that have lost it on the other side of 30, many of them great competitors as well. Then there is the injury thing, will it manifest itself in the future? We don’t know.
After the Cain and TL situations, if I were the Giants I would move on.
Yep. Age 30 will be his contract year. I would hate to lose the next two years, however. He’s entering his prime at 27. I just think moving him this soon is way too premature. Trading a player of his stature at 27 isn’t gonna happen, and shouldn’t happen.
So what would you like to see them do?
Sign him to an extension and keep him here for the remainder of his career.
He’s 27. They are currently a ship without a rudder, but with new leadership, that most certainly can change. They’re not gonna be irrelevant for the next decade.
did you know how to spell vengeance, or did spell check come to your rescue?
Ah, ya damn smart ass! I won spelling bees in middle school and was on TV in 6th grade. Vengeance is small potatoes, buddy boy hahaha.
and i thought you were just a guitar hero. good on you, pal. never should have doubted you, my brother!!
Love ya, man. Hope you’re doing well.
The one point I argue with is this: emotions are part of the brand with the Giants and their fans. It would be bad business to discount the emotional attachment we all have to MadBum and it would hurt the Giants brand without guaranteeing success in the future. The risks are too great and it sends the wrong message as an organization when you just throw away players. MadBum is a once-in-a-generation or many generations athlete and what he has accomplished cannot simply be discarded based on reasoning alone. Emotions are and should be part of what you identify with in a baseball team.
I’m not saying he would not bring back good players but prospects are prospects and there is only one MadBum.
Bumgarner should never be thrown away.
Post of the Day.
trading Bumgarner when his value is good (assuming a team comes calling with a great proposal) is not “throwing him away”.
The Giants are looking at perhaps a 3 years period where they will not be serious contenders. Why waste his best years on at best, a middling team.
I get the whole emotion thing, but even the greatest players were traded, Mays, Seaver, Reggie Jackson, Ryan, etc.
Yes what he did was great, but everyone has to move on.
If anything, I think the Giants are in this situation BECAUSE the front office thought with their hearts too long. They needed to move on from TL, Cain and a few other way before they did, wasting money and the opportunity to get younger better talent.
When he told the bullpen to sit down and take it easy in game 7, that did it for me. I don’t care if he loses a step or two, he’s the guy that will find a way to succeed. I want him on my team even if he’s on the bench, where I doubt he could be kept. I’ll take a bulldog like him any day.
Good point. Some assume Bumgarner still wants to stay in SF. Nothing should ever be taken for granted. It’s tough to see your favorite team get urinated on, and it’s even tougher to read the next day your favorite player gets dealt. Like life, heart breaks everywhere. But to roll with the highs, you roll with the lows.
Quite possibly because we have adult responsibilities in job, family, friends, and so on, baseball is the place where we can deliberately choose to be sentimental. Madison Bumgarner is talented, hard working, successful, and gives his all to the team. I would really hate to see him traded away, even for the King’s Ransom. It was great to have Bum back this week, throw a hundred pitches, and seem much like himself. With the bonus that for once, I felt like the Giants might win the game.
Truth be told, I haven’t really gotten over Matt Duffy leaving. Posey, Panik, or Bumgarner would feel devastating.
That was my point. If five years from now the Giants aren’t contending and are paying an ineffective Bumgarner a huge amount of money, I imagine that emotions of that moment will be quite different. On the other hand, what if he he was being paid a ton of money to be ineffective for another team, while someone they got in his trade had become a young star and fan favorite?
Yep. How do we feel about Matt Cain right now? While we value his history, that was a long time ago now. If 32-year-old Bumgarner is making $30+ million on a bad 2021 Giants team and has an ERA in the 5s, will we still be feeling sentimental about 2014?
Of course not. Even though most fans don’t really want to think about it, what to do about Bumgarner is a key question, and whether they get it right will have a significant impact on the team for the next few years. The biggest reason they won three World Series because they made a series of good drafting decisions (Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner and Posey). Now, its a new era and the slate has been wiped clean. The good decisions of the past don’t mean anything now.
While many don’t want to acknowledge it, they made a bad decision on Duvall and lost a guy who could’ve been a mainstay in their lineup for many years. While not the end of the world, it was a bad decision that continues to have a significant impact. They very much need to avoid making more mistakes. Bumgarner has the potential to be a big one, no matter what they decide to do.
You are now describing Matt Cain. I take your point, but couldn’t it be the case that Bumgarner has five very good years left in him, and leads the Giants resurgence, behind Heliot Ramos? Of course it could, just as all those Bumgarner-derived prospects you want turn out to be Gary Browns? There’s no certainty in life.
I think I’m very happy I’m not a baseball GM!
You’re certainly right. There are no guarantees.
Look at Max Scherzer. He’s 2 1/2 years into a huge free-agent contract that he got before his age-30 season, exactly the age that Bumgarner would be. Zack Greinke is an All-Star again, and his three years with the Dodgers–his first free-agent deal–were stellar. Greinke was 29 when he signed that deal. I think, even with his bad 2016, most teams would happily take Greinke’s last five seasons in total, since his first free-agent contact.
So it doesn’t necessarily follow that a free-agent deal signed at age 29 or 30 will turn out like Lincecum or Cain.
Important distinction: Bum has over 1400 innings so far, and that’s at age 27 and having missed three months this year. Assuming he throws over 200 in 2018 and 2019, he’ll have more innings on his arm at age 29 than Scherzer has now, at age 32. Scherzer was only at around 1300 innings when he signed his big contract. Same with Greinke when he signed his age-29 deal with the Dodgers.
In that sense, Bum is more like Lincecum or Cain than he is like Scherzer or Greinke. So is Kershaw.
The glich in the logic of the trade isn’t Bumgarner’s value, IMO, it’s that you simply can’t give the Giants braintrust any credit based on their track record in being able to discern prospect value. They’re like having blind men judge a beauty pageant.
Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner and Posey. They’ve succeeded in the past.
This isn’t the past. This is now. It’s like WS rings, they don’t tell you anything about tomorrow.
It’s crazy that the same guy has been able to stir up this much crap today. It’s just more of the same.
Stir it up, same as it ever was.
Actually, I enjoy The Oracle’s independence of thought. Admittedly the Duvall topic is worn thin, but he’s not wrong in thinking that a large trade could (qualifying verb = could) revitalize the team. And I don’t think I’m wrong about wanting to keep Perry and McCovey and Marichal and Mays – oops, I mean Bumgarner and Panik and Posey.
It’s the relentlessness of it I object to. And motive, maybe.
I would be surprised if there’s a large trade to be had in this mid-season market with more sellers than buyers. My upvote is for your last sentence on historical comparisons. This rings true. I believe the Giants learned from their big mistake trading away Mays all those years ago.
Didn’t Willie ask to end his career in NYC?
That’s not my understanding of what happened:
“Willie May’s 1971 season was reflective of the rest of the team, as he homered in each of the first four games, and by May 25, was batting .351. But the 40 year old superstar began to wear down as the season progressed, and he finished the season at .271 with only 18 home runs. By 1972, it was clear the Willie’s skills were in decline, and his continued presence in the Giants lineup presented several problems for Giants owner, Horace Stoneham.”
“At the start of the 1972 season, Willie Mays was playing anything like a superstar. During the month of April, Mays batted .146, with no homers and just three RBI’s in 41 at bats. Stoneham’s concerns went beyond the playing field…Willie Mays, despite his diminishing numbers, was still one of the highest paid players in the league, and the Giant’s owner wondered how long he could afford to keep Mays, especially at a time when the franchise was having problems drawing people to the wind tunnel known as Candlestick Park.”
http://thedaleyplanet.net/?p=597
I was going from my memory from that time. I don’t trust my memory from a week ago. 45 years ago? I don’t even trust me.
If the Dodgers fail to win the World Series this year, should they trade Kershaw?
I’m with Sincere below in this sense: You (The Oracle) are right to question where Bum will be in 4 years or so. None of us know. So, there is the “sell high” theory, which is “safest”.
But…The patriots didn’t jettison Tom Brady. The Spurs kept Tim Duncan. The Lakers kept Kobe…in great part, those “risky” decisions paid off handsomely (except for Kobe’s late injury).
Which column will Bum go into?
This guy is the Cyborg model competitor, and I think he’s more Brady than Lincecum. I vote keep him and sign him
In fairness I don’t think Brady or Duncan have ever suffered a major physical trauma like Bum just went through. Full recovery or lack thereof will be assessable with lots more starts. Until we get a sample size we don’t know if we have Cyborg or Fading Flo.
Actually, both have.
The dude is an iron warrior, and could very easily pitch into his late 30s with effectiveness. One stupid move this year did not put a dent in that armor. His best years are yet to come, and if we get the right leadership in here, we could be right back on top again. You don’t trade a 27-year-old ace with 3 rings. And you CERTAINLY don’t trade the greatest post-season pitcher of all time. Madness.
Of all the different theories and conspiracies and finger pointing and name calling and second guessing and ad nauseam as to why the Giants are flat out rank may be as simple as this. Players are soft and no leadership.
There could be no more writing on the wall for Bochy to step down. Orange and Black hieroglyphics.
Flann Man for manager. Or…Flanager?
Schulman reports that there’s interest in Samardzija (yes, really, even after Sunday) and Strickland.
There is no reason at all not to trade Strickland. He’s one of several in the bullpen and not even the closer or backup closer. There will be time and opportunity to replace him by the time the Giants need a good bullpen again.
I’d feel more of a twinge about Samardzija; the same thing that attracts other teams (durable innings-eater) is also valuable to the Giants. Still, his ERA is pushing 5 and he still gives up way too many homers. If they could get some good prospects and future salary relief, that could be a good opportunity.
https://twitter.com/hankschulman/status/887396932070408192
I don’t want to see Marge go. The ERA is part of a common epidemic in the clubhouse.
His FIP/xFIP also attest to some really bad luck and bad outfield defense.
I know he’s an FIP/xFIP darling, and I agree with that to a large extent. But he gives up a LOT of hits and too many HRs. I saw on the broadcast going into his last start he throws his fastball (a power FB by almost any measure) 47% of the time and hitters are hitting .310 against it. So, his fastball turns his opponents into HOFers. I think he’s solid, an innings eater and that has value. But if they can get something decent for him I think he’s quite replaceable.
I agree with those last two sentences. I like the Shark. He’s a bulldog, and I like a guy who takes the ball and eats innings.
At the same time, could Tyler Beede (or whomever) be at or near the league lead in HRs allowed every year and have an ERA pushing 5? I bet he/they could. So yep–replaceable.
Depends on how you forecast the Giants the next 2-3 years. If the FO truly is gearing up for a retool to contend in 2018, then Shark is far more difficult to part with. If it’s viewed more long-term then I trade him in a heartbeat if they can get both a decent return of prospects and out from under 3.5 more years of his deal.
That’s what the Giants thought, too.
The way I see things, there are three untouchables on the Giants: Posey, Bumgarner, and Crawford.
From the Giants’ perspective, I believe there are three untouchables: Posey, Bumgarner, and Crawford. From my perspective, there are five untouchables: Posey, Bumgarner, Crawford, Panik, and Belt.
POTD
Can fantasize about prospect hauls for any of them, but we know how the Giants operate. This is no Oakland/Beane industry. This is Giants baseball.
Oh, please. You don’t believe that. You should consider politics.
I believe in my assumption about how the Giants operate and who they will hold onto. The dirt bike accident does create a little bit of light, I will give you that. Other than that, they would prefer to not have to rebuild and to build around their stalwarts. Crawford may no longer be a stalwart, but it’s really hard to find a comparable SS – as it is really hard to find a competent CF.
I’m not sure one simple sentence is allowed to be POTD.
If it encapsulates truth with brevity of wit, than it is indeed a strong candidate for POTD. Prolixity is no true measure of wisdom.
Wow. That’s some analysis, Ryan!
Yup. Put your boots on.
You tryna be Eminem with a ranchers hat
M&M, he’s candy coated.
Footy hands out POTD’s from his white windowless van like candy!
But….you did deserve it. So, there’s that
Watch. The Giants will trade one of the three tomorrow, and my inside guess about who’s untouchable on the Giants will be worth bupkis.
I’ll go full Peter Johnson invectives if that happens
Jon Heyman will break the news…
any news Heyman breaks will be wrong
Brown noser 😉
Posey and Bumgarner are both ranked in the top 25 in MLB as far as value at trade is concerned. You’d get bupkis for Crawford anyway.
agreed…(and I’m not aligned with CC on Crawford, but he’s been a tough sell all along on Brandon)
So tell me the value and uniqueness of a .240 hitting SS with a good glove in MLB today. I’m not voicing my opinion necessarily, jut trying to put myself in the shoes of the buyer. Bupkis.
Aren’t you the guy that rails against batting average as a key indicator?
He’s a run producing middle infielder that isn’t just a “good glove”. He’s a GREAT glove. He’s a cornerstone star that anchors the defense. He also should be kept because he means more here than he would elsewhere.
One other point: ask pitchers in the league if they want him as their shortstop. Ask.
Yeah, but others don’t think that way, which is what the comment is premised on. Our diamond is their so what. There is no reason to trade Crawford, because he has almost a unique value here as opposed to elsewhere.
Wasn’t Crawford a big reason Samardzija signed with the Giants?
“cornerstone star” puke. He has 1 GG, and 1 Silver slugger for hitting .256 and 1 All Star appearance. Last year was an abnormality at .275 for his sub .250 average otherwise. With respect to the 15-20 HRs a year, he has once hit more than 12 in a season and that was 2 years ago in his SS season. Crawford is over 30 now and is on the downside of his skill set as far as fielding goes. If the Giants can get good prospects for him, then they should as he will be done in another 2 to 3 years.
You are not allowed to comment on Crawford because of your anti-Craw “racism”…your denial shtick was obliterated by his performance long ago
Right attack the messenger no the message. I will give you that Crawford has turned into a solid infielder as I did 3 years ago when he finally stopped the bonehead errors.
His bat has never been terrific and is one of the worst for average ops slugging and OBP. in the N.L. He has however has been good at driving in runs for a SS but most of those other guys are not hitting 4-6 behind a Posey
You keep proving me right. Appreciate it
He’s moved the batting average into the .260s. He’ll hit 15-20 HR in a full, healthy season. He’ll drive in 75-80 runs and play GG quality SS. Brandon Crawford is a legitimate top100 player, even in this terrible season.
Not this year. He’s hitting .220-.230 ish. MY POINT IS he has value here, but little elsewhere. That says trading him, or considering him a quantity of league wide recognized value is a waste of time, IMO.
Only if you need a solid SS to solidify the middle of the field would a team want Crawford. They certainly do not trade for him for his bat.
I was going to say something snappy about people who think Crawford is worth “bupkis” but decided against doing so.
Where are all the teams that covet Crawford? Because WE value him doesn’t mean everyone else does.
CC – though he is clearly worth more here…I can name many teams that would kill to have him in the middle – he’s an upgrade over the SS in contending teams Washington, New York (both), Toronto, Arizona, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis…that’s just contenders
I’m remembering when we debated Crawford versus Adrianza, cc. I also remember many here wanting to DFA Crawford in his first two seasons with the Giants. I always had high expectations and high regard for Crawford. I’ve been rewarded with what he’s brought to the Giants, on the field and off the field. Anyway, he has a full no-trade clause…
I do not think any of them are untouchable for the right offer.
Personally, I’d like to know, truthfully, how each of them feel about it.
The way Crawford snapped the eventual overthrow that Hwang made after the Moore gak earlier…he looks like he’s sick and tired of this losing (and I’m sure he feels he carries a great deal of the responsibility for it as well)
over-responsibility!
I think using facial expressions is dicey because we don’t know anymore about their facial expressions than they do ours.
i’m using his glove snap at the ball, his facial expression, and the stare towards the gents…which is still dicey, but I watched a guy who is as serene as they come on the diamond
I hope he wasn’t giving Hwang the stank eye. I get it was all very frustrating, but Hwang was playing his first major league game at the position. If anything, he should be mad at Bochy for not playing Gillaspie or even Posey at 1B when Belt couldn’t go.
See above…it felt more like a generic WTF moment based on the worst season he has experienced in his baseball life, I would imagine
I get what your saying but not a finite definition of why he glove snapped it. It could have been the totality of everything but doubtful it was directed at one player or the other. Hwang was falling when he threw his to Panik and Moore (once again) failed to lock out his wrist during the flip making hand-wrist and fore-arm all one piece.
Murphys Law is clearly upon them.
I totally agree…it seemed more like a moment directed at the general lost season.
i hate to say this, and i sure don’t want him to go, but i wouldn’t include bcraw35. i would add JP12 to replace him.he’s younger, way cheaper, and he plays gold glove defense. he’s may be finally healthy after a couple of possible career threatening injuries (back and concussion). i think he hits around .300 for a long while, and hopefully he’ll be wearing black and orange.
I suggest you closely watch him live, in-person. Not one game, but several. Watch him between plays, before each inning, before the game and in the dugout. Wotus may be the boss, but BCraw is the shop foreman. He constantly makes little adjustments all around the infield during the game. Then, of course, he catches and throws the ball.
P.S. I also love just watching him play.
Schulman reports there are more sellers than buyers.
Hank Schulman 10min ago
One thing I hear a lot: potential sellers hampered by dearth of buyers. NL playoff cast all but set. AL Central settled.
Any earthquake damage to the structure?
This toss to first had Joe Panik ‘laying out’ and upon further review as to where both of his feet ended up – almost led to a career ending injury….possibly Achilles.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v1618844183/clesf-ramirez-crosses-the-dish-on-an-error/?game_pk=491481&partnerId=ed-11714530-55341579#
USF Dons Bradley Zimmer http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/USF-alum-Bradley-Zimmer-succeeds-by-being-himself-11295082.php
this exasperated sigh is for Lefty:
Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…
Too many h’s. Can’t you spell? SMH
Typical of the Giants, they probably had no idea who he was while at USF.
But hey they must have been looking at an undersized infielder or a SP who tops out at 88mph.
*Hard to disagree with you
For all those who still love the college game don’t forget to add the College World Series in Omaha to your Bucket List. Rosenblatt Stadium has given away to Ameritrade Center but the experience is special.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/article/2017-06-18/college-world-series-passion-hallmark-cws-baseball-omaha-players
http://www.abca.org/landing/index
http://netnebraska.org/basic-page/television/rosenblatt-final-inning
The author of this blog used to be the old UC Davis baseball hitting instructor.
Here he sheds light on the HS pitcher the Giants signed away from the Orioles
http://straight108.com/2017/07/17/conlon/
JD Martinez to Diamondbacks. BOOOOMMMM!!!
Look out Dodgers, their boomsticks coming (uhhhh, is it 10.5 games back?)
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/887438913727549441
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/887442211754958849
4) Dawel Lugo, SS-3B, Grade B-:
Age 21, acquired from Blue Jays in 2015 trade; hit .311/.339/.492 with
17 homers, 19 walks, 56 strikeouts in 488 at-bats between High-A and
Double-A; despite youth and good surface numbers he draws wildly varying
evaluations; agreement exists on his strong throwing arm and raw power,
but erratic feel for the strike zone is a big handicap; some observers
think he can improve substantially and hit for both power and average
going forward but this is not unanimous; declining range fits best at
third base but will put more pressure on his bat. ETA: 2018.
other 2 seem to be C prospects, possibly C+
It doesn’t seem like they gave up too much.
Martinez is a two-month rental.
Still, he could be enough to make the difference. The Giants paid a significantly higher price for Beltran. The Tigers must have a higher opinion of Lugo than other teams.
.753 OPS at AA with 7 HR, 22 y.o.
The Baseball America top 25 from February, 2011. Zack Wheeler was #55:
1. Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2. Mike Trout, of, Angels
3. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
4. Domonic Brown, of, Phillies
5. Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
6. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Rays
7. Aroldis Chapman, lhp, Reds
8. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
9. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
10. Wil Myers, of/c, Royals
11. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
12. Dustin Ackley, 2b, Mariners
13. Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
14. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
15. Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
16. Michael Pineda, rhp, Mariners
17. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Braves
18. John Lamb, lhp, Royals
19. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
20. Chris Sale, lhp, White Sox
21. Jacob Turner, rhp, Tigers
22. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
23. Brandon Belt, 1b, Giants
24. Martin Perez, lhp, Rangers
25. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b, Indians
The Baseball America top 25 from February, 2011. Zack Wheeler was #55:
1. Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2. Mike Trout, of, Angels
3. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
4. Domonic Brown, of, Phillies
5. Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
6. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Rays
7. Aroldis Chapman, lhp, Reds
8. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
9. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
10. Wil Myers, of/c, Royals
11. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
12. Dustin Ackley, 2b, Mariners
13. Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
14. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
15. Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
16. Michael Pineda, rhp, Mariners
17. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Braves
18. John Lamb, lhp, Royals
19. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
20. Chris Sale, lhp, White Sox
21. Jacob Turner, rhp, Tigers
22. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
23. Brandon Belt, 1b, Giants
24. Martin Perez, lhp, Rangers
25. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b, Indians
The Baseball America top 25 from February, 2011. Zack Wheeler was #55:
1. Bryce Harper, of, Nationals
2. Mike Trout, of, Angels
3. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees
4. Domonic Brown, of, Phillies
5. Julio Teheran, rhp, Braves
6. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Rays
7. Aroldis Chapman, lhp, Reds
8. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
9. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
10. Wil Myers, of/c, Royals
11. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
12. Dustin Ackley, 2b, Mariners
13. Shelby Miller, rhp, Cardinals
14. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
15. Matt Moore, lhp, Rays
16. Michael Pineda, rhp, Mariners
17. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Braves
18. John Lamb, lhp, Royals
19. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Royals
20. Chris Sale, lhp, White Sox
21. Jacob Turner, rhp, Tigers
22. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
23. Brandon Belt, 1b, Giants
24. Martin Perez, lhp, Rangers
25. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b, Indians
You REALLY want us to know about the 2011 top 25
It now seems obvious that The Oracle and I are the same. Our, I mean my, cover is blown. We, I mean I, really like prospect lists.
But still, best hitter available on the market and he has a track record of really hitting. Not enough demand is all I can assume.
Man if the Giants were in it, he would be the guy.
So DBacks fortifying their WC odds. What will Rox do? Brewers? Cards?
Not at all.
Somewhere Al Davis is smiling
http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/tim-kawakami-leaving-mercury-news-joining-the-athletic-san-francisco/
It’s a real shit-your-pants kind of NL lineup for opposing pitchers to navigate, joining the Nats and Dodgers in that esteemed company. Where can the Giants get that kind of lineup?
Pollock CF
Peralta RF
Goldie 1B
Lamb 3B
Martinez LF
Owings SS
Drury 2B
Catcher Dude
Pitcher
Be at the bottom of the pile for a couple years and draft smart to start
Are you honestly of the opinion that JD Martinez shifts the balance in the NL West., or is this a marketing campaign to excite people about the trade deadline?
I mean…it’s JD Martinez.
Exactly, for a year everyone on this blog shit on Martinez every time he was brought up as a trade option.
Now that he goes to the DBacks he’s the Answer.
Hypocrites.
I don’t think anyone shit on JD Martinez as a player (possibly his defense?), I think people more don’t trust the Giants to not get fleeced on a trade like this. Yankees just got David Robertson and Todd Frazier for their last year #1 pick. The Giants used their #1 pick to get a lefty reliever coming off an injury.
Bums still the team to beat but J.D. is a significant upgrade over the Descalso/Blanco LF platoon. Blanco will still be the 4th OF’er and Descalso utility infielder.
Actually, not really a platoon since they’re both left handed but they have been using both in the OF. Trade will help define bench roles.
No, let’s work on your reading comp. Where does it say anything about balance? They have a really good lineup that just got better because they added one of the best run producers in baseball the last few years. The Dodgers just about have the West on lock down. The DBacks are in excellent position for the WC.
Stay with me.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martijd02.shtml
I misinterpreted “BOOOOOMMM!!! Look out Dodgers”
My bad
No. What’s bad is your relentless lack of repentance. Say five my bads and three hail marys and you shall be absolved.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, is it 10.5 games back.
I change my mind. DBacks got em right where they want em. Go Snakes, inject that hematoxin into their calves, and maybe some subcutaneous clostridial bacteria while you’re at it!
WOOO HOOOOOOOOO!!!! Go DBACKS !!
Everyone in 1-7 can hit majestic shots. Their catchers, Ianetta and Herrmann are the only bad batsmen in the whole lineup. They’re even better pitchers than they are hitters. If there’s an AZ weakness it’s in relief especially Rodney as closer. He’s already got a bushel of blown saves. I say this, they’re a LOT more entertaining than the G’s. Lots of big and late-inning comebacks are fun to watch. They’re never out of a game.
It’s a real shit-your-pants kind of NL lineup for opposing pitchers to navigate, joining the Nats and Dodgers in that esteemed company. Where can the Giants get that kind of lineup?
Pollock CF
Peralta RF
Goldie 1B
Lamb 3B
Martinez LF
Owings SS
Drury 2B
Catcher Dude
Pitcher
It’s a real shit-your-pants kind of NL lineup for opposing pitchers to navigate, joining the Nats and Dodgers in that esteemed company. Where can the Giants get that kind of lineup?
Pollock CF
Peralta RF
Goldie 1B
Lamb 3B
Martinez LF
Owings SS
Drury 2B
Catcher Dude
Pitcher
Looks like Goldy is Belt’s only competition for the 1B Gold Glove.
http://sabr.org/sdi/2017-07-09
A gold glove on 100 loss team.
That’s all the Giants team needs, more $$$ shelled out in bonuses to an already top three payroll.
so that’s 25% of vote. I bat Goldy is golden again, because of the bat.
Interesting look at the MLB buyers and sellers at the trade deadline.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-buyers-and-sellers-guide-to-the-mlb-trade-deadline/
The article does have links to find out how the Doyle number is calculated. What I found confusing were the two seemingly different meanings for a low positive Doyle number and the zero rating. They claim that a low positive number (like the Mets) means “Sell anything that’s not tied down”. Yet the dead flat zero Doyle number of the Giants and several other teams means that there isn’t enough current talent to make giving up a future win worth it. Thus, my interpretation was that low positive = wrecking ball yet zero meant “Do nothing”. Where do I have it wrong?
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/game-95-preview-a-new-sell-out-streak-begins/