By
Greek Giant
Watching the Giants has now become an exercise in masochism. I have recently begun watching the original Batman TV series from the 1960s and one of the joys I develop in every episode is from the myriad ways the show graphically illustrates the fight scenes with words like “Bam”, “Pow”, “Crunch”, “Crack”, “Slam”, and many more. It’s good fun seeing the producers come up with synonyms for pain. This is what Giants games feel like for me.
Last night Yoenis Cespedes did his thing and Ty Blach did not. The Mets had 20 hits, many of them fairly soft but what difference does it really make? The pitching is now coming dangerously close to the ineptitude of the hitting attack. It’s a race to the bottom.
Keep Calm and Carry On
The Box
Breckeroni read the news today, oh boy…
D Law not feeling so swell. Demoted, now blowing saves for Sacramento.
0.2 IP, H, 2 ER, 4 BB!, K
Ryder Jones keeps on bangin’ for the Rivercats, playing 3B. 2 for 4, 2B, BB – .299/.390/.553, 10 HRs, 5 SB.
He really is a new man this year. He’s never had an OBP > .300 in his minor league career in A ball and above.
CJ Hinojosa was 3 for 4 for Richmond, batting a cool .395 over the last 10 games. Should seem him in Sac in the not too distant future. Giants do infielders, yes they do.
That, folks, is your minor league briefs for the morning.
***edit***
Ryder Jones never had an OBP >.300 ….
Now look where he’s at? Ta-dow, how do you like him now?
Which hitting instructor successfully got in his head? Did it start in Richmond? Or over the winter?
Talk about latent talent coming to the surface. If you saw him hit at A ball level, you saw a long swing that was not quick to the ball, you saw an aggressive swinger not waiting for hitter’s pitch. I had written him off, the foundation of a solid MLB hitter not eminently apparent.
I think it’s also part of the risk/reward equation of drafting high schoolers. Jones is only 23 and years of pro experience now. He’s had time and space to develop. That’s a lot more interesting to think about than guys like Parker or Williamson, in the latter half of their 20s.
And a 17 year old could be their #1 prospect
Too many INF prospects; package them up for one good OF prospect?
Package Arroyo for a good one?
Send Panik for an even better one?
Easy being a fake GM, not easy being the real McCoy.
If you ever trade Panik, I’ll make sure you never work as a fake GM again!
I said this about a week ago, and I still firmly believe it’s the best course for all of us:
There’s no need to anguish over any losses any more. This season is about nothing more than analysis for the future. Who will play hard? Who will play well? Most importantly, who has the talent and future to do both?
The veterans have been on a long run of long pressurized seasons, playing more games overall as a team than 90% of the league. They’ve been the target team all decade. They are playing on a less talented roster than ever before. There is a staleness to the entire organization that is shocking to them all.
I read on here the crazy angst over things like Gearrin pitching in the game, or why there isn’t a different pinch hitter. Or, if a guy is getting tagged, screams to get him out of there. Be frustrated, but relax. It doesn’t matter. It’s just another move in wasted game in a wasted season. Focus on it as evaluators of the bigger picture, not that inning that night. Otherwise, the season will crush you.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
http://www.iep.utm.edu/wp-content/media/buddha-225×300.jpg
“FanWhisperer” at your best.
I am waiting to see if the Giants do the right thing, DFA the dead weight, call up more kids and see what they have, give them long looks, do not sit them on the bench, play then every day for months at a time. I doubt they will knowing the track record of Bochy and the FO, the FO is more worried about selling tickets this year than getting a look at players that can help them in the near future, and Bochy is set in his ways to much to do it .
1, 2, 3, 4…… Burnin’ Down the House!
Well said, thank you. I needed that.
It just bothers me when the team seemingly gives up on the season when there’s still more than half of it left.
It’s little moves during an inning that determine the outcome of the game and the outcome that determines the course of the season.
We can call it a wasted season and all that but those guys still got to go out and perform as a group. We still got 80+ games left, we’re not nearing the end of the season
You think they have a chance to make the playoffs, you should read the standings, look at the stats ,worst offense in MLB, one of the worst bullpens in MLB, a mid pack starting rotation, good luck with that, and stop smoking that shit !
I’m not saying that. This season is done but why is there any reason to believe next year will be any different?
I don’t mind the losing, I just want them to play with some damn effort is what I’ve been harping on for the last 3 weeks.
The effort crap is judgement, they just do not have the talent, I want to see guys like Jones , Arroyo, Hawn, Shaw get a long look , to see if they might help the team next year are not .
I agree on promoting the young guys to see who sticks. Gregorio and maybe Suarez too
The Padres are officially the worst offense!! 80 wRC+ vs. 79!!!
In a lost season, the little moves should be tests for the longer view as well as shorter. Bochy should try things, should get guys experiences they may not otherwise get, go against short view convention…..that’s all I’m suggesting.
If only people had listened when I said the same thing weeks ago, but we visionaries are often mocked and belittled in the beginning.
Style matters?
You could try cutting off an ear?
The world worships Van Gogh and he was pretty much the arch-type of the struggling unappreciated and abused visionary.
Passing gas is a more sure chuckle and instance of levity. Makes the losses easier.
The main ingredient are those who do not wish to be mentored in any fashion by others. Some fans are fanatics and some fanatics are fans. They view the game as if it were a video game and that it has all these fan user controls. None of us know what the game is like at the highest playing level possible but some of us have enough residual experiences that we can extrapolate out some experiences of our own. Getting disappointed or depressed on how team is playing is one thing but becoming denigrating towards those who play is shameful. All one has to insert into the counter argument is by simply saying “what if you were related to so and so”. At the MLB level ALL players are decent/good. 750 players only. If one checks the MLB standings you will find teams stocked with amazing power hitters and the team is not playing well, We root for 1/30th of the League but I suggest that occasionally fans check out and marvel and the other dugout. Joe Giradi’s TEAM has played bad in many years gone by. Some on here that are the most disgusted may be employed and functional by wonderful employers but they may have eating or drinking demons that jack them into raving lunatics when they post. Others may have beautiful families and wives/husbands but might never have had the privilege of fathering/mothering boys/sons. HAD YOU – then have the experience(s) boys go through in sports would ready ‘you’ for the ML level of playing. Some of have been on our own for a long time. Some parents have left us young and we did not have them there to teach us the finer things of baseball slumps. Hang in there, there’s lots of ball to be played in the future.
Whoa – check out this sonic journey !
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/arts/music/radiohead-ok-computer-influences-playlist.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=nytmm_FadingSlideShow_item&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
I’m encouraged to read that some of the Mets six runs in the second were from soft contact, vs. balls rocketing all over the yard. I got home late, didn’t see anything before 7-1 Mets.
How did that happen? The Dodgers are just 1 game back of the Astros for best record in baseball.
Just as in reverse, the Giants are painfully close to the worst record in baseball.
The whole world is upside down!!!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB-standings.shtml
…and the Giants have a winning record against the doggers.
There’s some comfort in knowing that.
Yeah for BrightSpots! Can they keep that up for the season? [Sad minor goal]
Memories of the Giants as Spoilers role.
Would love it if Giants could knock Bums out of playoffs; much like 1982, but it looks as if LA/ARI/COL are all but in. Win the season series would be a BrightSpot.
Maybe Giants can play the role of spoiler in September. Something to hope for. Maybe Ryder Jones hits some sort of Joe Morgan walk off.
Things like that mattered in 1985, not in 2012…..
Not for long. The Dodgers are playing great ball right now. 33 home runs in their past 12 games before yesterday.
Not really, the Dodgers have won the division the last 3 years while the Giants have been free falling
Oh Capitan my Capitan….
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p6VxqpZJnLM/Uk3Hq1Hf6cI/AAAAAAAAajk/nLJlkqhjd1U/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/2010-10-04-DeadPoetsSociety1989CD2.avi_003839798.jpg
You’re an internet savant! Speedy McFootsville! I loved that movie
My search engine has a 454 and I keep the intake clean by not downloading porn.
I hate this movie so much.
not exactly public education or dangerous minds
Classic Grand Funk and at a ball park too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyF5J7au1jE
Great concert. One of my first favorite bands. Kind of lost me though when they covered Locomotion and Some Kind Of Wonderful.
I saw lots of great concerts at Winterland, but #1 will always be The Rolling Stones. June 6, 1972. First of four shows (Tuesday afternoon and evening, same drill two days later). It was my last day of college, and the first time I voted (’72 Presidential primary). Unforgettable and memorable day.
I saw Grand Funk 2nd billed to Santana at Winterland in December 1969. What was different was that the stage was set up on the north side rather than the west end of the hall, also the upstairs was not open. This was the same layout of Winterland used for the Joe Cocker Mad Dogs and Englishman tour where Van Morrison was 2nd billed in 1970, However at Halloween 1970 the headliner was Ike and Tina Turner Review with Spirit 2nd billed. The stage was to the west and the upstairs was open. The Cocker show was the last time I saw the stage to the north and no upstairs configuration.
Grand Funk was rising fast in the world then.
Good details.
Winterland for me was one show, “Mountain” [with Jack Bruce].
We survived all that craziness … yeah!
Rush and UFO 1977 for me.
My first show at Winterland (and 1st rock show) was the Doors and Procol Harum in 1967.
Last show at Winterland was Tubes/Ramones in 1978.
Saw Dead, Jefferson Airplane/Starship, Tubes multiple times.
Also saw CSNY, Elvis Costello, Big Brother/Janis, Quicksilver, Beefheart, ZZ Top, Sly and the Family Stone, Steve Miller, BB King. Booker T, Ten Years After, Bloomfield, Bishop, Butterfield, Blue Oyster Cult, Tom Petty, Roxy Music, Its a Beautiful Day, Canned Heat, Sons, Uriah Heep, Manfred Mann and many others at Winterland (many bands not as headliners, 20-25 shows in total at Winterland). Actually went to more shows at Fillmore West and the various beer bars and venues in Berkeley and Oakland.
This what one did when your parents send you to boarding school 400 miles from home in 1966 to 1970 then you end up intermittently in Berkeley at Cal for undergrad 1973 to 1979. Fortunate to be in the right place at the right time with freedom from strict supervision.
Fillmore West, Keystone in Berkeley all ring bells.
Local bands you probably saw by what you listed:
Cold Blood, Dennis Geyer Band [best … I found some recordings if you want to email me. This conversation is getting way off TWG protocols.]
Went to the Fillmore to see a favorite band “Dreams” and they were opening for some guy, Johnny Winter who had Rick Derringer with him then.
Not everyone made it through unmarked from those days and I am grateful.
In Berkeley, Keystone, Long Branch Saloon, Ashkenaz plus Berkeley Community Theatre and the Greek Theatre. Saw Talking Heads, Petty, Garcia/Saunders, Tubes, Chris Isaak others at Keystone. Tubes practiced for weeks at Long Branch before hitting it big.
I saw Cold Blood and pretty sure4 have a vinyl album in closet.
Saw Hendrix, The Band, and James Taylor at Berkeley Community Theatre and the original Allman Brothers as opening act for BB King and Buddy Guy at Fillmore West on high school “cultural” field trips.
OK no more fond memories and back to baseball that confusingly sucks, Giants 2017.
Just sent you an MP3 file of that local band that never even made studio recordings as much as I can tell. Let me know if it plays for you.
Anyone else interested?
Write me: My SF Giant Guy at Gee Mel dOtt com
I don’t want to see anymore tweets from players wives showing their latest team family outing during this dumpster fire. These boys need to win before that shit gets cute again….
Nah. They’re still people. They need breaks and they need fun, and their families need family time. Being on a bad team isn’t a crime to be punished for.
Now is the time to rent dirt bikes and skydive, not in April with the whole season ahead!
Poll for the class..
Who should manage the Gs next season?
A) Bochy has three rings stupid
B) Isn’t Matt Williams sitting in the Comcast Booth?
C) Bob Brenly has a ring and gets along with Kruk and Kuip
D) Its time for the org to reward Wotus
E) I dunno but Bochy gotta go.
Give Wotus a run. As a rookie manager, expectations wouldn’t be high. He could get creative. He could do a dandy of a job developing young personnel. He could be the next Joe Maddon, you never know.
I wouldn’t even want to hire the last joe maddon
Wotus might be a bad influence. You might lose him in the “fog” when visiting Seattle or Colorado
I vote with Footy: Wotus seems like a good teacher, and there will be young players in larger numbers next year. And he’s paid his dues. Having Nevin would not upset me, but I tilt towards “Woty”.
Not matt williams. He’s an idiot.
If we are to bring a long lost Giant back into the fold, I’d prefer Bud Black.
Bud likes his current gig where he never has to mess around with the lineup card.
Bud is going to have a very long run in Colorado
Last year he was the choice, but he has a job
Kuiper said Phil Nevin is the heir-apparent after Nevin was hired. Wotus is only a few years younger than Bochy, and Nevin’s in his mid-40s. This is a younger man’s job. Bochy was what, around 40 when he started managing the Padres?
Nevin is a fun pick to have a strong, fiery personality capable of really motivating the troops.
I like the thought of Nevin as manager too, perhaps as soon as the All Star break.
No slam on Bochy but his time has passed, the emotional fire and physical stamina is gone.
Time for change.
I am all for DFA a bunch of players that won’t be on the team in 2018 (Hill, Hernandez, Gillaspie, Kontos, Gearrin, Cain) and mass call ups of young players for the rest of 2017.
If someone wants to trade prospects for Strickland or Cueto, fine.
I would look at rebuilding the FO in the off season. The Giants would better their minor league system by adding one or even two Rookie level teams. Two additions for a total of four would match the Dodgers. I don’t like the culture of losing that has developed in the Giants minor league teams (nor that at the MLB level).
I find Kontos with the new cutter somewhat intriguing. I’d have to see more before I write him off.
Recall when Kontos had a long streak without letting an inherited runner to score? IIRC in 2014. Problem is that Kontos is mediocre and it is questionable whether he will get better or more consistent to be on a Giants team that rediscovers winning.
I’ve been advocating for a change by the ASG. Retire and go out in style. No criticism of Bochy – just need to pump some O2 into the room.
A match to my thoughts.
Haas, Dude.
Mind control programming.
Nice thoughts
Thank you.
Sure nice to have AC too!
AC? what’s that?
Just took my truck in to shop because bearing on compressor crapped at at over 200K. It will get to 90 in this AC free zone called home today. Humid evaporative coolers at work!
6 years is a few years , and Wotus is in much better health, he deserves his chance, hiring Nevin would be a slap in his face, like your company hiring somebody for you to train , to eventually get the promotion you always wanted, I had something similar happen to me years ago, and I quit a good job over that, pride is pride .
pride is one of the 7 deadly sins. it’s not a good thing. most guys forget that. pride comes before the fall…
From the outside, I’m betting Nevin gets the gig. There must be a consensus in MLB that there is something missing for Wotus. Most lieutenants that ride along for 3 titles as bench coach get a gig somewhere else, and though interviewed by there, he was never hired. Nevis was specifically brought in to succede Bruce. I don’t think it was designed to be next year.
If they stay in house it’s Nevin for sure. Furthermore I think Wotus knows he’ll never be an MLB manager, and he’ll continue to be a solid bench coach.
Wotus. He has the respect of the players. Nevin can be the bench coach.
Last guy they rewarded for being a loyal soldier was Jim Davenport.
F) A young, energetic baseball man who embraces the current metrics and can relate better to younger players ascending from MiLB.
Bob Brenly seems to be happy in Arizona. Appearances could be deceiving but I don’t ever hear apathy or disinterest in Brenly. Doesn’t mean he won’t take the job (and much higher pay) but Bob already did his stint as manager in AZ winning their one and only title in 2001.
The Giants song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE
The Giants are primarily a TV show. That’s how most of us watch them, that’s why the Stadium is set up as a big TV studio. That’s where the money is. For things to change their ratings need to crash. Stop watching this show. The writing is predictable and the actors are phoning it in. Stop watching their ads and when it’s time for an oil change , go somewhere besides Speedy. Money talks.
The G’s gave us a great 8 year run…I always include 2009. I had concerns heading into this season regarding the offense but never predicted it could be this bad. At this.point, it’s time to let the kids play. The true fans won’t go anywhere.
The organization worries more about the casual fans, since they comprise a much bigger piece of their bottom line.
Very true. And true in many if not most MLB organizations.
Every one.
Au contraire!! The 1990s showed us that when the Giants suck, attendance gets cut roughly in half. Attendance is the money that the FO has to spend. Half the fans will bolt which is why when teams get this bad, like the Phillies, they tend to stay there for a very long time.
For a long while, they were getting decent pitching but losing games with anemic hitting. Now, the hitting is decent, but the pitching is awful. In order to catch the Phillies, they now need to put it all together.
Good one. The funny thing is that they’ll take a reprise from the hitting when Shark pitches and score a run, maybe two.
They need a low scoring game today for the purpose of enhancing Cueto’s trade appeal.
Agree! If Cueto pitches a gem, I’d start entertaining offers immediately.
Those offers should consist of getting another team’s top draft positions. Otherwise, who’d we bring up? Beede?
For whatever reason, baseball teams don’t trade draft picks.
Some do. I would think an immediate contender would happily take Cueto for a couple of picks.
Beyond the fact that it doesn’t happen, teams would still prefer trading for prospects that have some track record in professional baseball.
there are some picks teams can trade. the competitive balance picks.
That does seem to be the pattern.
The Giants have lost a whopping 38% of their games scoring zero or one run. The problem is in that middle ground when they score 2-4 runs and then it seems like we’re losing 3-2, 4-3, or 5-4. Aside from their pitching and hitting ineptitude, which is by no means at the bottom of the NL (12th in batting, 13th in pitching in the NL), they’re also experiencing a lot of bad luck.
We don’t want them to catch the Phillies. We need draft picks.
Huh? I want the first draft pick.
You mean the “cursed” pick as Matthew suggested? I think that’s just a superstition. You want to try and get the best players possible and to trade for top draft picks.
I don’t like losing games.
Playing to develop and sort young players in a season when the team is not playoff competitive is one thing but every game should be played to win and every win is good. Wanting to lose for draft position is something else.
According to Ken Rosenthal, Giants are calling up Ryder Jones. I presume Hill’s getting DFA’d to clear a roster spot for him.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/878666771095363584
I love it. The youth movement continues.
Awesome! But I guess this also means that Hwang ain’t going to be happening in SF. Jones has definitely been superior though.
Thanks for that scouting report. And congratulations Ryder Jones!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f292a4df7c9002e3d9f92d650e5b8661edb4f909ada8679780f7c67edd763b25.jpg
Wow, that’s cool.
Hey I was going to say “That’s cool” about Ryder Jones.
Is “That’s cool” still a common term or archaic?
Together We’re Archaic. Fire away.
There are not many “youngsters” posting at TWG so TWA works.
Cool is still cool. Groovy or bitchin’ would be archaic.
But Ryder Jones has a groovy and bitchin’ name.
A groovy slips from my lips on occasion and bounces around the skull pretty often.
Esp. if it means, ‘Adios, OTHill.’
Hope so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnAJARo6WMQ
Nice song. I was thinking of this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCRS4DRmf_w
Don’t get me started! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srj6DuCK-wM
The story goes that Gregg wrote this as a tribute after the death of Martin Luther King.
Ayup. That early album is amazing for its maturity.
Nice. Love this one and China Cat Sunflower!
There is a new 6 part documentary on the Grateful Dead new on Amazon Prime. I watched part 2 just this AM. The program is well done with lots of film, interviews, photos and music.
yah that was bitchin’. was just jamming along with my nylon guitar. that’s the thing about the dead, free form jam!
My favorite Dead show.
After a decent start, Cain has been just as bad as everyone thought he’d be. In his last 10 starts, he has an ERA of 7.28 and opponents are batting .364 against him. Do they eventually pull the plug, or let him continue? In making that decision, they need to keep in mind that they’re locked in an extremely tight reverse pennant race and Cain is just the kind of reverse ace that can lead them to the bottom.
His 2017 is earily similar to Zito’s 2013. Early on Zito was good and the arm speed fell off and the cutter stopped working. Same with Cain. The 2-seamer isn’t working anymore. Plus the road splits for both are similar. I would let Cain pitch out the contract but at some point soon from the pen. But your point is well taken, the number one pick is within their grasp.
Do we need to make this point over and over ad nauseam?
I don’t visit this site everyday so hadn’t read this point.
All points here are made ad nauseum. You need to follow along more closely.
“Reverse ace”–nice
Ryder Jones coming up. It will be nice to get rid of some of the dead weight.
Are Kelby’s super powers fading?
.258/.303/.258, 56 wRC+
Gorkys is sporting a 59 wRC+ that is on the rise.
He never had them. He’s a nice utility player with good speed
I could have sworn he had a Clark Kent thing going on. Must have been my imagination. Nobody uses phone booths anymore. The only phone booth is the baseball stadium.
Seems he’ll always be a bench player for as long as he can stay in MLB. Good glove, can play anywhere, great speed, and that short stroke puts the ball in play. Limited, but more useful than most of the other bench guys we’ve carried this year.
Bochy won’t be fired till after the season. But I think he will retire. The dude won 3 WS with us. The organization will give him the benefit of retiring in class.
He’s now just 10 games over .500 for his career.
Maybe he’ll pull a Jeff Fisher!
He will finish under .500. but still get in the Hall Of Fame.
Let’s say the org decides to open up more 1B and LF for the likes or left handed hitters Ryder Jones and Chris Shaw by moving Belt. Seems like a good way to get guys like these more opportunity. Jones can do 1B/3B/& maybe LF. Shaw can do 1B/LF/RF. Belt could bring back a CF prospect.
Okay, but what if the Giants were to sign Jonathan Lucroy and he were to split the catching duties with Posey. That is the question. What do you guys think of a Team USA super catching tandem (although Lucroy having a down year)?
I’ll take answers off the air.
Why would Lucroy want to be a backup, and why would the Giants want to pay his market value for a backup?
50:50 with ample opportunities at 1B. Sound good? What will his market value be after down year? Something to think about.
Jason Castro got 7/21 with a Joaquin Ariasque bat but high end framing. Lucroy will get more than that, but Lucroy has been pretty tepid for 3 seasons now. I don’t think he’ll want to play back-up, AND I don’t think he’ll be worth starting catcher money.
he’s been off and on and next year is an on year. a guy like castro would have been pretty ideal batting LH. Wonder if Lucroy is able to get 50 million. He could put up a big 2nd half. He’s always been a top hitting catcher.
Yeah I wouldn’t put too much stake in that off/on year stuff. He’s going to be 32 but I could see him getting 4/48 or 3/39.
I want to play you in Monopoly
You’ll probably win. I want to play you in chess.
I hope the front office moves into a flexible mode of decision making. Developing contingencies and creative thinking with solid overall strategy in mind.
The Giants already have to many left handed hitters. They need some right handed pop
If the Giants win the next six in a row, they’ll be on 98 loss pace.
Well, THAT ain’t happening!
In heading towards this necessary rewhatever (- tool?, – build?, -vamp?) , I hope they realize the “veteran leadership” needs to be the age of Posey, Crawford, Belt, with a guy like Samardzija on the top end. It’s an unfortunate reality that this is a young man’s sport, and that makes a list of Pence, Span, Cain, Cueto, Hill, Hundley, Morse all not only expendable but necessary purges.
I can understand the public consumption talking points of “tinkering”, but they have to get young. Of course, the issue is they have no obvious young talent that will maintain a form of decent results (Blach is an example…nice kid. Battler. Not enough raw stuff to be much more than a .500 guy).
So, Sabean and Evans better start trading old assets for high risk youth ( risk in the form of “high ceiling but pretty raw”) if they can. Teams that have designs may need a piece. Some may be dumb enough to think Pence can make a difference. Cueto can bring something. (The others are dead weight).
Lastly – Melancon. We don’t need that asset. We won’t for awhile. Trade him.
It won’t happen, but as I’ve long said, the Bumgarner trade is the one that could really help them. The alternatives are signing him to an expensive deal that will cover his declining years, or getting nothing for him.
Sadly, that is true as well. Bum has a lot of innings on that shoulder that just tore his AC joint…and this break CAN help, but the outcome is a total unknown. I also know that he WANTS to pitch this season, and they will let him…and it could be disastrous.
As this season went North Korea Nuke Test, it now becomes pretty obvious that’s bringing Bum back makes no sense. And, it’s a Cain/Zito level risk to sign him long term…so, then what? One option remains: trade him. THAT becomes the only reason for him to pitch this year.
It is amazing that this is what it has come to this quickly
There’s nothing wrong with bringing him back, assuming he heals. If he does, it would be pointless to force him to sit while healthy.
I’m in between you guys: let Bum pitch in August because its important to learn if he’s right or not, then call up AAA guys in September to check them out and keep Bum’s mileage lower.
“Bum, we suck and will suck. Give us a list of 5 places you’d like to play, no NL west.”
You do not trade your best pitcher.
Why not? He’s by far their most valuable trade option and they’re very likely not going to contend during the two years he has left on his contract, which leaves the two most likely possibilities I noted above:
1. They greatly overpay for declining performance,
or
2. Get nothing for him.
Bumgarner isn’t declining. He just had the best season of his career last year and he’s still only 27. He hasn’t even reached his prime yet. Trading him away now would be idiotic.
The ONLY reason for concern is how the shoulder injury affects him moving forward. That’s it
Read what I said. I didn’t say he’s currently declining. He isn’t, which is why he’s so valuable. I’m talking about what will happen from the 2020 season and beyond, the years that will be covered by his very expensive free agent deal.
It’s not going to happen and it’s not the right thing to do.
Pretty sure some Royals fans ended up pretty happy when Greinke turned into Lorenzo Cain.
and Alcides Escobar and Odorizi and Jeffress over in Texas pen. 4 very legit MLBers, perhaps Jeffress withstanding.
The White Sox seem to have done pretty well in the Chris Sale trade.
and how
the Adam Eaton trade as well.
He better come back strong to get those Big chips. This is almost like trading Trout. Just imagine.
I wouldn’t mind playing you in a game of Stratego. You’d be a formidable opponent.
Another possibility is that he could start to decline before he reaches free agency, in which case he’d never be more valuable to the Giants than he is right now, or will be as soon as he comes back healthy.
That’s probably the most likely scenario. Stays part of the core and diminishes with the rest of the gang while the next wave rises.
It would be highly out of character for the Giants not to reward Bum for years of being paid far below market value. Maybe he gets a reworked two-year option of appx $50MM for 2018-2019?
Great post!
It’s considered blaspheme here but the real value aside from Cueto is Belt. A tram with a short porch in RF would pay top dollar for him and he’ll never realize his full potential playing half his games at AT&T.
There in lies the problem with Belt. He is not a pull hitter. He hits line drives to right center and left center much more than a big fly to the left or right field warning track. That might be because of the park as to how he swings and misses(a.k.a. does not hit), but it is something that might deter a team as does $17M a year for 4 years with a <20 HR guy and a .22something average
I think Matthew’s earlier post (different thread) makes sense: keep Belt through this season, see how he finishes. If it makes sense to move him we’ll get more in the offseason. We’ll also have a better idea about Shaw and Jones.
Makes sense. That $17M is real hard to swallow unless Belt goes on a tear longer and better than his 2013 or 2104 August/September.
Devalued goods.
This just in: James Shields remains Not Good
Still no answer on who goes down to make room for Ryder Jones:
Henry SchulmanVerified account
@hankschulman
Also told a player will be cut to make room for Jones. Not a situation where someone is going on the DL. #SFGIants
Also this from Schulman, looks like Jones’ stay will be short:
Henry SchulmanVerified account @hankschulman 7m7 minutes ago
I’m told Ryder Jones will play third base while Nuñez is on the DL. Could be a short-term callup, but #SFGiants are eager to get a look.
CWS. Go Beavs!
Yes!
The only way they win is to overcome this tremendously bad home plate ump. His strike zone is way different by team, and I have no skin in this game.
Hill DFA’d!
Yup:
Alex PavlovicVerified account @PavlovicNBCS 5m5 minutes ago
Giants designated Aaron Hill for assignment. Good clubhouse guy, but he was hitting .132. Ryder Jones is your third baseman for now.
Smart to take a look with Nunez sidelined and Arroyo also on the DL for Sac. Jones can play OF, too. And 1B.
Nunez DL stint was retroactive to Tuesday, which means he’ll be back next Friday (Giants are off Thurs.). So Jones has only a 5-game look, if he starts today. Unless his level of play says, “Don’t option me, bro.”
Yep. They could cut Gillaspie if they like Jones, who is younger and more versatile. But I don’t believe Nunez will be back in 6 days.
Nunez out until ASB, IMHO. Then two good weeks makes him very attractive trade option. And yeah–at this point I’d DFA Gillaspie if Evans can’t get something for him, which is unlikely at this point.
Let TWG take a bow!!
Just got back from stroll out back. Toasty. It’s 100 already, again. How about that?
You said there’s no A/C. Does the house stay cool at all?
90 in the living room in the afternoon. Bedroom is the coolest room, maybe low to mid 80’s, Barry Zito temperature.
Pull out the rocking chair and guitar, turn on the front porch fans and , grab a pitcher of ice cold lemonade.
was just jamming on I know you Rider and working up a sweat
sitting cool in Santa Barbara about to go the summer soltice festival. I nice cool 70’s
lucky you. weren’t you just on the east coast? where’s your home base? or from under which bridge do you reside ? 😉
Moved fro SJC to outside of Augusta a few years ago. Visiting family as Pops is getting up in age and just got out of the hospital
I hope you at least have a couple of ceiling fans.
Jones will wear #63. The only two Giants to wear that number were Jean Machi and Waldis Joaquin.
Wonder if he’s the first Giant ever, including NY, named Ryder.
I consider Ryder Vogelsong a Giant
Just thinking the same thing! The Showtime series during the 2011season, he was a little cutie. Ryan and Nicole were outstanding throughout that series.
I don’t remember Waldis Joaquin, and he played for the Giants very recently, ’09 – ’11. A reliever, I guess his 2.79 WHIP in ’10 doomed him. So he has a WS ring, right?
If for no other reason Machi will remain in the hearts and minds of mosf Giant’s fans forever as the one that took the brunt of it when Mijares cut the cheese. 🙂
“Did somebody step on a duck?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5or-pUBmBM
That was classic!
Can we infer from that that Murphy thinks Jones’ stay with the team is limited to Nunez DL period? (reading tea leaves “by the numbers” here)
Jones wore # 8 in Sacramento this season. That number is taken by Pence up here. But it does seem kind of weird that Mike Murphy would give him such a high number.
Watching NCAA umps is painful
Below I see that Ryder Jones is up, and Aaron Hill is released. I’ve never been clear on why Hill made the team out of camp, or was given so much rope, given that he has no history with the Giants. Still, it is sad to see a baseball player go out the hard way.
I was expecting Jae-Gyun Hwang to be the player called up, but maybe that will happen anyway on Sunday when we can have a 25th person again.
Me too and I hope you’re right. Hwang is part of the “let’s see what he’s got lot”.
Most do go out the hard way, which I can understand. They’re living out an emotional and economic dream, and once it’s really over it’s never coming back again, so I don’t blame these guys for trying to hang on as long as possible. But it does seem like the Giants are the last stop for more than their fair share of players.
Perhaps letting the borderline veteran MLB players go this early is to their benefit in being picked up by another team in 2017?
Hernandez, Gearrin, Kontos, Hill (now DFA), Cain, Gillaspie; players that will not be on team in 2018 blocking younger players that get experience and be filtered at the MLB level ASAP.
Cain to the DL ASAP, low profile end of his career. Hope he’s OK with that, vs. DFA route.
Perhaps that was written into the contract that brought three titles. The org is required to be a last stop, sanctuary city for refugee ballplayers for the duration of the decade.
More baseball karma.
Duke Snyder
Warren Spahn
Steve Carlton
Gary Carter
Omar (had some left in the tank)
Carlton was a traveling road show at the end. And Randy Johnson only came here to reach 300.
Snider and Spahn from a different era when players were paid much less. Carlton was chasing the 4,000th strikeout. Carter gave us some decent play in 1990. You’re right about Omar; when we gave him a three-year deal in 2005, I thought “whaaaat!?” He was 38 years old! But he was strong in 2005-2006, then faded a bit at the last. Man, he was fun to watch!
Two more that were old(er) but helped – Reggie Smith and Joe Morgan
1993 Willie McGee * Bud Black * Bill Swift * Todd Benzinger (93-95)
1982! Couldn’t have done it without those two.
Rick Reuschel won 19 and 17 games for the Giants age 39 and 40, 1988 and 1989; Reuschel rose like a Phoenix several times in his career.
BIG Daddy !!!!!!!!!!! Could also hit and field his position.
.136. The pitchers let him know it’s over.
These days, anyone who has been in the majors for a while, and has any sense at all about money, doesn’t need to hang on just for the cash. I think a lot of people do decide to hang it up, rather than put up a year like Hill’s 2017. Sometimes it appears to be love of baseball, such as Mike Morse exhibited this year. Sometimes it is hard for me to understand the motives.
“He’s a solid pro.”
“Good clubhouse guy.”
“Gotta get heem goin’…”
FINALLY!
It doesn’t make sense. He posted a .660 OPS in spring, and it’s not like he was on a league minimum deal. He got 2 mil for making the main roster. 2 mil! For a guy who showed absolutely nothing, and now got that for 80 PA. But they couldn’t even sign Blanco to a 1 mil deal. I can only imagine that Hill was one of those players that Bochy just always wanted, like Francoeur.
He hasn’t been able to play for 5 years!
If I had Glen Kuiper’s job, I would inevitably be fired for turning to Ray Fosse and asking ” What the f#*k are you trying to say?!?!”
Fosse 45 second interview “questions” are the best.
the other extreme from the non question “talk about …..”
Being a fan fanatic of the Giants and Oakland Raiders is not a free ticket to Utopia. No. It’s a guest pass to enjoy the talent you can appreciate. That’s why you roll with the highs and roll with the lows.
I’ve turned a new insight into this dismal season. Watching the Giants ‘struggles’ has taken on a therapeutic meaning. Yes. Misery loves company and we’re here to help.
You like Metallica by any chance?
Ha. Some of their stuff. Good job site music back in the day. I’m a sucker true bluegrass, hard core blues and Dylan, Neil and the like.
I do. Rock on.
Oregon States incredibly amazing 55-5 season is running out of innings. LSU 5, Oregon State 0 B5.
They’re probably wishing the child molester hadn’t been discovered until after the college World Series.
What do you think the chances are that that pitcher was molested when he was little?
90% at least. Disgusting. Child molester should be a capital crime, IMHO. Seriously.
In the Philippines, drug use is considered a capital offense.
Saudi Arabia too.
No. Glad he was busted and the weight of Oregon States loss will haunt him further. Would hate to see an asterisk if OS had won it.
Where are you guys on Kubler’s 5 levels of grief? Better today?
I checked out last night at a score of 5-1, being convinced it was over. It seemed better for my peace of mind to just let it go. What level does that put me on?
You’ve arrived. LOL.
Im a solid 4 until 2018
Maybe we won’t see Hwang up here:
Henry SchulmanVerified account @hankschulman 1h1 hour ago
Henry Schulman Retweeted Unlucky Don
Don’t think we’re going to see Hwang. Questions about his D. Blocked up here. Can opt out next week. But can stay if he wants. #sfgiants,
Too bad. I was looking forward to Krukow saying “Hwang let out some shaft on that one.”
Javi said that this week on a HR in Atlanta, one of Belt’s I think. Krukow mentions topspin, backspin and both cheeks. And I was looking forward to hearing Kuip say his first name, Jae-Gyun.
How much worse could his defense be than Nunez? They love these guys like Nunez and Arias who can “play anywhere” while only looking average-at-best at their “natural” position.
Nunez’s play at 3B has been more than acceptable. OF a bit shaky, but the more he played, he settled in.
Welcome ROOK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR7MjmqkoNw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyrAaEvkgeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXy1kxMVHck
Man that kid can turn on a pitch.
Best LU since Arroyo left:
Span, Panik, Pence, Posey, Belt, Crawford, Jones, Slater
Haak, I think they’ve got a real shot for a win today. Spanik at the top has been hitting well. Those kids are going to come up big too.
S’Marty opined today on KNBR that Span has made himself tradeable to someone wanting a vet-stealer-CF-lead-off. Clears the way for more OF TryOuts this year; that I like.
He’s got to keep it up for a month. The type of bat a playoff team can use. He sure looked like one down the stretch last year. 2nd half hitter too. The commitment next year is a deterrent, but nothing a little cash can’t amend.
Base stealer , no way, what is Marty watching .
I did not hear S’Marty specifically say base stealing in that report to be fair.
As PJ says below, weak on SBs at this point. Also I’d point out that last year he had a stretch in late August/early September where he went 1-31…and Bochy kept him at leadoff every. single. day.
Any chance we see Dugger in August/September?
Dugger is not playing anywhere this year, recovering from a serious injury, not TJ surgery but something like that if I got it right .
I thought he was rehabbing and getting ready to start his season. Could be wrong, though.
Span was .287 post-All-Star break in 2016.
Maybe S’Marty did not specifically say SB threat.
Duggar is MyGuy™ and has not played this year due to a muscle strain that will not heal! He was 4-12 in Spring Training with 2 SB but that is where it ended.
Is he officially out for the year? That would be a shame.
No, he could be back anytime but it keeps getting pushed back.
Let’s hope so.
Jones and Slater. We’re getting there. Need arroyo to get healthy.
Where would Arroyo and Jones both play if they were in the same lineup?
Jones can play the OF.
Arroyo at 3B, Jones LF, Slater CF/RF
As predicted by SM Aaron Hill gone. You wanted to see youth and we are seeing it
What do you want?
Melvin Upton Jr.
LOL.
George Kontos was interviewed on “The Sports Leader” this week and when asked how the team keeps their spirits up during all of this losing, he said, “Well, the Dodgers went on a 40-7 run a couple of years ago, so we can too.” Wow, talk about delusional.
So you’d rather he’d say, “Well, we can’t. Everybody is pretty down right now except a few guys who hope they can raise their trade value. Some of us, including me, are glad the fake GMs aren’t in charge, because I’d be DFA’d along with a few others that don’t need mentioning. I mean, it’s obvious who they are. Anybody that might think we could go 40-7 is delusional. We don’t have a chance. We suck and Bochy should be fired. We need a guy like Will Clark or Matt Williams in charge. Why is Belt still at first? What’s he batting, .225? Crawford doesn’t seem to care, Span’a a disaster in center, Pence has lost it. Don’t get me started on the relief pitchers!”
This is much more than a one-liner. Good stuff.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Sounds like TWG!
My all-star ballot:
National League:
C- Buster Posey, SF
1B- Paul Goldschmidt, Arizona (NL loaded at 1B!)
2B-Daniel Murphy, Washington
3B-Nolan Arenado, Colorado
SS- Zach Cosart, Cincinnati (Corey Seager a *very* close second)
OF- Bryce Harper, Washington
Charlie Blackmon, Colorado
Marcell Ozuna, Miami
American League:
C- Salvador Perez, KC
1B- Yonder Alonso, Oakland
2B- Jose Altuve, Houston (ClutchUp’s Guy!)
3B- Miguel Sano, Minnesota
SS- Carlos Correa, Houston
OF- Aaron Judge, NYY
Avisail Garcia, Chicago White Sox
George Springer, Houston
DH- Edward Encarnacion, Cleveland
Editorial note: I confess to knowing much less about the AL than “our” league.
I think i gotta have Seager on there and I think Bellinger has definitely put up an AS first half. Can play him OF. Got to beat those Trout-less Junior Circuit hacks.
lol you are so biased you fail to put two people that absolutely should starters, Seager and Bellinger.
lol you are so biased that you’re totally underselling the season Cozart is having. Seager is the better player and will have the better career, but Cozart is having a killer year.
Ozuna has great numbers as well.
I voted for him.
Ozuna – MyGuy to acquire last off season – him or Khris Davis
Oh so you are one of those that thinks a Dodger is incapable of being the best at his position? Seager is twice the player Cozart is, nuff said.
Seager :.298/.403/.506/.908
Cozart: .320/.404/.562/.966
Cozart is also a way better defender, Efrain loves his Dodgers .
Come on Efrain. Look up the stats. Furthermore, stop trolling and show some respect for other’s opinions. The all-star game is “this year”, not career. Oracle’s snapshot justifies any vote for Cosart.
What the F*** are you talking about? “Seager is the better player and will have the better career, but Cozart is having a killer year.” Read my post again, numbskull.
I’m sure he had no idea what kind of season Cozart is having.
I’ve forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know. I follow the entire league, not only one team.
Yet you apparently were unaware of Cosart.
I guess the year Cozart is having is part of what you forgot.
their wRC+’s are neck and neck and I bet Seager’s will be greater in short order, probably by the time the weekend is over.
I’m biased. Fuck the Dodgers.
(But those guys you mentioned are All Stars)
I’m so biased I put Brandon Crawford there! Yeah, that’s right
And who else? Look at the stats, Efrain. Cosart is legit.
Efrain putting on his troll hat. More important that than respecting another knowledgeable fan’s opinion. And the “other” player is who?
Seager yes…Bellinger…no
Even though the Yankees won last night, not to many happy folks in Yankeeland.
I bet both Cueto and Belt are looking pretty good right about now.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/recap?gameId=370624110
Man, that’s a lot of contract. There’s a fit on the field but I don’t know about the $. Other than Clint Frazier who do you think Giants can get?
The Yankees have a lot of talent in below the AAA level, I’d take some young kids in return. The GIants aren’t going to compete for a few years, get some young talent and wait it out.
Therefore the trade does not have to include AAA talent.
They have the money and have not won since 2009, which around here is as long as the Cubs drought.
They have the hitting, just have a few holes to fill in.
Yanks aren’t hurting for cash could absorb the contracr for good fits
That would be an ideal destination for both…. Who could we pilfer?
A few weeks ago, we were barking about the kids getting a shot.
Well, this roster currently boasts Slater, Jones, Crick and has the still young Blach, Okert, Tomlinson and a couple others.
So, they’re doing it. Maybe it wasn’t fast enough. But, they’re doing it.
Only because it’s become an obvious choice.
Huh? It’s been obvious for awhile. They’re doing it. Whatever.
Aaron Hill was DFA’d only today. Morse was on the roster until he got injured. Ruggiano has played. So has Drew Stubbs.
So the kid’s got some sense of humor huh
https://twitter.com/PavlovicNBCS/status/878705532273426433
And…
did he take him deeeeeep?
Of course. He used 2001 #25 as the batter…
Reverse Standings:
Phillies —
Giants 1
Padres 5
Reds 6
Mets 7.5
Tigers 7.5
White Sox 7.5
Lookie there! Uber now doing heavy doses of damage control/PR advertising after Kalanick and his leadership team was all fired by the board for being complete douchebags! It’s almost like PG&E saying “I’m sorry”
LOL, someone on this blog “tried” to argue with me before this season started that Melancon was better than Kimbrel:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/06/19/craig-kimbrel-boston-red-sox-closer
You know who you are.
He used to be, not anymore….
Whomever that was they had the stats to “try to argue with” … Melancon #6 / Kimbrel #10. http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/how-teams-initial-closers-performed/
Obviously results for today are another matter.
It’s not always about stats and you know enough about baseball to realize that. Whats the eye test? How was the team performing? Age? Health?
In no world is Melancon better than Kimbrel, ever.
Love your passion but you are “E-rational” here. A very good system used past performance to rank them like this.
Nice attempt to use stats to make a point but it’s not the actual truth. Melancon is not, has not, and will never be as good as Kimbrel, who is 3 years younger and is, to some people, one of the few relievers in a HOF trajectory.
Last place. Matt Vasgersian.
Yippee
How about that “DRS”, stat heads?
Belt F the bunting,!
Com’on Craw.
I like Bob, but, damn it, learn how to bunt, Dumbass.
Shut the F up, he should never bunt , he is a 6 foot 5 1st baseman that leads the team in HRs, just because you are a slappy fan !
I’m going to ask your mother to wash your mouth out with Lifebouy. Learn some baseball Potty Mouth. Bust the shift and you’ll get some doubles and triples.
My mom’s dead, loser !
So is Lifebouy the last time I looked.
Not going to help him get doubles and triples, they play him to pull in the infield , but the other way in the outfield, might get a couple infield singles that is about it .
On the pre-game show, Marty Lurie interviewed Phil Rogers of MLB.com. Lurie said that McCovey used to bunt to LF for doubles occasionally. Rogers said when David Ortiz was a top power hitter in the Twins minor league system, the management said they’d call him up to the big leagues after he learned how to bunt. Ortiz said that all he did for 2 weeks was practice bunting, and then he got called up.
You need to settle down
The bunting , gets me going, it is nuts .
A smaller list would be what doesn’t get you going.
Fine. Comment. Lose the anger, sir.
I once saw Bonds bunt against the shift for a double. Granted it was a ST game, but still, it was effin awesome. Everybody on the field was cracking up. A stand up double at that.
He never did it in a real game, I promise you !
This fox sports broadcast is making me sleepy.
The good news is, we’re wearing deGroms legs out on the bases. The bad news is, Cespedes is up.
Atta babe Slater.
Ryder Jones is due up
Another Panik clone.
Pulled the ball hard. He’ll get a hit today.
Wow. Defensive shift on Jones right out the gate.
You going to tell him to bunt all ready, what a blog !
I’m not going to tell him to bunt. No. But you know I’d tell him not to swing at the first pitch because you know I hate letting pitchers off the hook with easy pitch counts early in the game. A good hitting team works counts and drives up opposing pitchers pitch counts and get into their pen. Then the good hitting team goes to town on the opposing teams bull pen. Then smacking first pitches is ok because by that time it’s on.
You need to get over yourself on that one, Matt Williams already told you MLB hitters by far hit better on the 1st pitch in an at bat than any other pitch !!
One of these days I’ll have to look it up. .330 on 0-0 may be the league average, but it’s not us. You probably have stats on hand. What does the league hit 2-1?
Peter heard that number once stated by someone who he’s never listened to before, and it’s the only thing he can think of. I’m positive he mentions it at least twice per game. He doesn’t understand what goes into situational success or failure, he just sees “Hitters hit well on the first pitch” and then thinks “OMG EVERY FIRST PITCH IS THE BEST!!!”
Bs, I have watched get in fastballs, go over the fence for years, most hitters always hit better on the 1st pitch, they guess and if they are right boom . you should know this, maybe Fangraphs needs to be updated .
“Most hitters always hit better on the 1st pitch”, okay, lets look up some best hitters:
Mike Trout, first pitch, .386. That’s good! .403 on 1-1, .414 1-0, .430 2-1, .440 3-1, .487 2-0!!
Miguel Cabrera, first pitch, .406, .411 0-1
Bryce Harper, first pitch, .355, 0-1 .367, 3-1 .395, 1-0 .500
Well…those were the first three I randomly looked up, and it looks like “most hitters” don’t actually do what you heard Matt Williams say once…
This one run deficit feels more like a ten run deficit
4 innings, 1 run. Things are looking up. Now score, Giants.
Yep. We’re still in this.
Good patience Joe, let’s get that run back
Nice inning. If they’re going to overtake the Phillies, lack of hitting with runners in scoring position is going to have to be a big part of their arsenal.
I love how we’re all ignoring this smarmy little thing you keep throwing at us.
Back to ignoring.
You continue to gnash your teeth and bang your head into the wall over the inevitable. I’ll continue to look at the glass as half full and look forward to the highest draft pick they can manage and the opportunity to find another outstanding player.
That’s fine. We all see what’s happening. But this little “race to see who’s worst” thing you’re doing? Way past its expiration date.
It’s the best thing for the team, but I guess you personally need them to win meaningless games so you can feel better. Seems a bit narcissistic.
Any normal fan would prefer that his team win as often as possible.
seeing as we aren’t making the postseason, I don’t see why we would want to get the 2nd overall pick instead of the first.
We will get the pick we get. You don’t stop playing to win. Pride and professionalism.
I never said the players should stop trying to win.
Will Clark was the second overall pick. Matt Williams was 5th. Barry Bonds was 6th.
As I’ve pointed out many times, consecutive bad seasons brought them Lincecum, Bumgarner and Posey. Without the bad seasons that resulted in the ability to draft those players, fans would still be whining about not having won a World Series since 1954. 2017 is just part of the cycle. To believe that you, as a fan, should only have to watch winning teams, and never endure losing, is simply unrealistic. Neither life nor baseball works that way.
Again, we all know it’s a lost year. What throws sand in my gears is your desire for us to not only finish last, but to have the worst record in MLB. For the life of me, I don’t understand that. Then again, it’s typical TO nonsense, so I’ll move on.
You cant understand wanting, as long as the team is losing big, to have the very first pick in the draft? I think it should be easy to understand. As we all know, the Giants are awful. Will it make you feel better if they lose 99 games but the Phillies lose 102?
No. You play to win the game. We’re headed for top five pick in 2018. We’ll get a very good player. I’m done with you on this.
Herm Edwards Post Of The Night
Having the most losses to guarantee the first pick may have demoralizing consequences that no first pick can reconcile. I don’t want my favorite team being the worst team in baseball. Can’t happen.
Do we know who the clear #1 is? Or the #2? Or the rest? I get the droning on about losing, but I’m not sure it matters in this specific situation. Maybe a guy like Footy can educate us all
Everyone that’s going to be drafted next year has another full season to play, so that all remains to be seen. The last time they were this awful was 1984 and 1985, seasons that brought them Matt Williams and Will Clark.
That’s rich
Would 75-87 make you feel better? You love Buster Posey. The Giants lost 91 games in 2007 to be able to draft him. The Reds and White Sox lost 90. Do you wish the Giants had only lost 88 games that season, so that one of those two teams could’ve drafted him?
I mean it’s rich that you are calling tf62 narcissistic.
And of course you had no response about drafting Posey, but I bet you and TF62 were upset about every loss in 2007.
You’re the one that changed the subject. You know where I’m at. Read my opening post today. Quit trying to start shit. Again. You are generally wrong about how I watch baseball and mistake rooting for players with blindness. For an oracle, you aren’t too good at it sometimes
And there you have it. The 2017 Giants in a nutshell. First and third, one out–the Brandons with back to back strikeouts. Crawford joining Belt in a race to .220 batting average.
I can remember when a double Brandon chance was a pretty sure thing.
And there in a nutshell is why our woes continue. Brandon and Brandon are paid handsomely by the Giants to produce when the team needs them the most. B&B along Posey and Pence, are the ones that need to carry this team. 1/4 of them producing doesn’t cut it.
Guys can’t be successful in 100% of their situational at bats. Belt lead the team in WPA the last two game. Yeah, they were ugly losses, but you can’t choose when the game tying hits fall and when they don’t.
Cueto is on top of his game today. Nice pitching duel going on here
This exactly what me needs to do between now and July 31st.
His trade value isn’t predicated on the numbers he posts up this season. It’s more based on the opt-out clause in his contract after this season and whether or not he’ll opt in after he gets traded.
How he’s pitching at the deadline absolutely has a lot to do with his trade value.
Teams aren’t interested in giving up their best prospects for a rental
Trades every year at the deadline say otherwise
Teams that think they are really close to making a deep run will be tempted and might give up a little more than you think.
As a rental, I’m sure he’d be thrilled to go on a pennant chase since you never know how many of those you’re going to get and he’s on the wrong side of 30. I think we could get good prospects for him.
Teams give up good prospects for rentals every year, particularly a starting pitcher who is pitching very well. The Giants gave up an all star left fielder to rent a mediocre starting pitcher.
Revisionist history. LOL.
I love Johnny Cueto. No matter what happens with him he’ll always be one of my favorite Giants.
Shimmy-shimmy-cocoa-puff.
shimmy shimmy cocoa what? listen to it pound. https://youtu.be/Y5qKNlcUwKs
My reference was from “Big”, the Tom Hanks movie. I think I remember it correctly. Maybe not.
I know 🙂 but that phrase reminds me of this.
Of course Cabrera makes that play. Sigh…
Blister alert.
Kontos to the bullpen….gas can George to the rescue.
Strong outing, Cueto did his part.
Get him a W, guys. He’s earned it.
It is in the hands of two Brandons and two rookies.
There ya go BB9!
Nice. Get JC off the hook..now get a lead
Attababe BB9!! That’s MyGuy!
1st Pitch, wow he was bad, should never swing a 1st pitch, the Blog says that’s bad .
Who is this person “the Blog”? I’m not sure I know the person who doesn’t want selective first pitch swinging, PJ
Me, always look to drive 1st pitch .
Now with deGroms pitch count in the 80s and the hitters have seen him a few times, this is where first pitch contact is appropriate. Not saying it’s bad late in the game. No need for me to explain how I feel about. I don’t do rabbit holes.
Peter, nobody has ever said it’s bad. And, during his career, here’s Belt:
first pitch, .398
3-1 count, .411
2-0, .395
2-1, .395
It’s almost like…good hitters have success in a variety of pitchers counts? Not just one that you heard Matt Williams talk about once?
Close enough. I know more about baseball then you ever read , Matt Williams just said the obvious that most people that follow the game know
You’ve routinely shown that you don’t know anywhere near as much as you think. Belt is super successful on first pitches….and just as successful in several other counts. You think the count is what matters, but you clearly don’t understand the WHY, and you never will.
And PJ joins the “I know more about baseball” trolls. It’s been my experience that if you have to say that you DON’T know.
Thanks Mr. Slappy .
Look up pitchers buddy, get in , strike 1, best pitch in Baseball hitters know this , so ambush, hitters hit well with count leverage too, but against great pitchers they seldom get count leverage, so the 1st pitch is usually best pitch to hit .
And how many of these first pitch hitters came in a pitchers 3rd time through the order, after said batter has already seen several pitches from him?
Look, you heard a cool stat, and you didn’t understand WHY the stat is cool, you just took it as “every first pitch is the best!!”
Do you think most car accidents happen within 1 mile of your home because it’s the most dangerous?
Then why doesn’t every hitter swing at the first pitch? There are a myriad of reasons why. Maybe they were guessing and didn’t get that pitch. Maybe they’re unfamiliar with that pitcher and need to see his release point. Maybe they were told to take a strike. It’s never black and white, PJ.
Ryder is gonna run into one here
:-/
Kudos to Brandon Belt for getting Johnny off the hook. This would have been a seriously unjust loss. How the game ends now is que sera sera to me. We’ve witnessed a great one however it ends up. We had so many of these types of games in 2010 which added to the specialness of that season.
Span cutting in front if Pence, facing away from 3rd…Genius.
Is there a chance that they discovered in 2016 that the bullpen was built over an Indian burial ground?
Archeological tests should have been done prior to construction. But you never know. A few hundred Benjamins and a half gallon of southern comfort does a lot of favors.
Just before that triple I was gonna type “I think we got lucky with Dyson”…
Onions!!
Okert!!
Ouch? Please not.
Osich?? It’s kind of an Ohell choice regardless
Pretty much. And now we’re doing the Bochy “one hitter per pitcher” dance. Swell.
Nice ERA on Okert.
9.62 was relieved by 7.71. Your 2017 Giants
Shit. First pitch base hit.
In order for the lefty-righty thing to work, the pitchers you’re using have to be good at pitching.
No way, lefty on the mound? That’s a good time to get Arias going.
I’m honestly beginning to question our advance scouting and Wotus’s positioning. We have been off all season by a bit
When Okert was effective, he was pitching low in the zone. He’s pitching to the heart of the plate right now.
That’s basically every pitcher besides Craig Kimbrel. Keep it down.
Low & inside is the formula for him. I still think he’s the best lefty out of our pen when he’s right
There’s only 2, so not much competition!
Including Will Smith, Ty Blach earlier this season..
When healthy Smith is the best. Closer stuff.
Will Smith is WAY better than Okert will ever be
Oh don’t be so sure about that, Okert’s capable of pitching a lot better.
He’s a mess. ALL of these guys are capable of pitching better. Okert is more Runzler than Smith
I wonder how many times Belt has gotten the game tying RBI this season…only to watch the bullpen immediately cough up that lead. It seems like it’s been happening for years now.
What amazes me is that Buster’s .342 batting average has only fetched him 28 RBI. Crawford and Belt, whose combined BA is .234 lead the team with 35 and 33 RBI respectively. I’m stirring the pot but with a .342 average Posey should lead the team in RBI by a mile. He’s not hitting at the right times.
It’s pretty fluky though. It’s not like Posey is going up there holding his bat upside down with RISP. He’s still got a 111 wRC+ w/ RISP, which – although a far cry from whatever he’s hitting otherwise – should have lead to more RBI than 28. Crawford has a .635 OPS w/ RISP. It’s silly.
Sometimes I hate sabermetrics. It’s formulae are often arcane and I’m saying this as a retired statistician. There’s reason why baseball-reference.com emphasizes stuff like OBP, BA, RBI, and SLG. Belt and Crawford combined are hitting 108 points less than Buster yet have a clear (5 and 7 RBI) lead on him in run production. How can that possibly be?
That’s not a sabermetric problem, that’s a “baseball involves a lot of shit luck and is sometimes stupid to watch” problem.
I don’t see where Buster’s “shit luck” resides. I’d appreciate a real explanation. He’s hitting in the most RBI-advantaged spot in the lineup. I’m flummoxed.
Because one guy is hitting .227 w/ RISP while putting up a .635 OPS and has more RBI than a guy hitting .250 with a .770 OPS in the same situation. Do you think it’s because Crawford just wants RBI more? It’s a combination of things. Crawford has had more PA with RISP, he’s had more PA with men on 3rd, he’s had more PA with men on 3rd and <2 outs, and runners have been taking the extra base more often on Crawford's hits than Posey's. Belt has the same problem, where their contact is just hard enough that it gets to defenders faster, leading to less runners advancing, less guys scoring from 2nd to home (overall team lack of speed is also an issue).
Posey is hitting above league average with RISP, Crawford is hitting terribly in the same situations. What do YOU think Crawford is doing "better" than Posey to get better results?
If I have a guy with a batting champion BA and on pace for 21 homers, I don’t want 60 RBI for the season from such a cleanup hitter.. Otherwise, I think you’re hypothesizing because you don’t give a source for any of your conjectures. Never mind. When a conversation breaks down to such nits as you’ve presented above it starts getting tedious. Let’s stop.
You’ve brought nothing to this except for “I disagree with you but offer no answers” whereas I looked up actually results of the thing you were disagreeing with. All of this information is available on bbref. It’s not hidden. For you to say I’m the one offering conjecture is rich. Believe what you want. You asked for an explanation and I offered several actual reasons. ‘Night.
Okay but you didn’t source your observations in your original post. That would have caused me to simply agree with you and bid you “goodbye”. That I brought NOTHING to the conversation is rich since what I did provide were batting averages and position in the batting order which, 9 times out of 10, would be all the indicators one needs. There’s a reason why BBREF’s main displays are BA, OBP, and other such “obsolete” indicators. It’s because those indicators are usually highly correlated with overt stuff like run production.
Kontos is the last pitcher I’d throw out there in this situation.
Yep. I knew old gas can would get his shot…and do exactly that.
Strickland and Law aren’t avail.
Prefer Crick or even Gearrin, at least Gearrin has strikeout stuff
You actually called for Gearrin…after probably ripping him apart a few days ago. Not to single you out, but this kind of debate is why we need to relax…Bochy DOES NOT have good choices. This pen is terrible.
Let’s not act like I’m the only one stirring the pot. Bochy doesn’t have great choices, but he keeps digging the team into a bigger hole with his “bullpen maneuvers.” When do you ever see his bullpen switches in the middle of an inning pan out these days?
It doesn’t work when he does. It doesn’t work when he doesn’t. Managers are restricted to the talent they are stuck with.
Giants were predicted to win the NL West or at least win one of the two wild cards by a majority of the experts before the season started. They are vastly underperforming and they’re a disappointment. Bochy has talent now; One of the top 7 teams in the NL in terms of talent
No way. Terrible outfield, terrible bullpen, below average rotation (without Bumgarner), and established players who are having subpar seasons.
You’re lying to me if you expected the Giants to be THIS bad before the season began. We’re all disappointed and frantic on the blog because we know how good they were supposed to be.
Don’t you have to face reality at some point?
You’re right, we may not have enough talent to compete with the rest of the league but if we’re going by that logic, then there’s always going to be one team that has less talent than the other.
Have they ever had the most talent in the league in all their years winning the WS? NO, but they always competed hard and brought CONSISTENT effort.
We’re just not seeing that this year. Consistent effort
and I blame that on the manager as much as I fault the players.
I don’t. He can only throw out guys on the roster… go back and look at this cascade. Look long and hard st the bullpen names. Look long and hard at the OF roster. Look long and hard at who the bench is. Now subtract Bum. Now what do you have? A 4th or 5th best roster of talent in the NL West. I know it’s frustrating. But the run was a great 6 1/2 seasons.
I didn’t expect them to be this bad, but the second half of 2016 should’ve tempered everyone’s expectations and raised the question about what would happen this season.
Are you actually watching that “talent”??? That just not true any longer, regardless of what some journalists in NY that watch the Giants 3 times a year say
how about doesn’t have any choices?
I know that wasn’t an easy play, but Hunter Pence has literally lost all defensive capabilities. Can he not see the ball off the bat any longer?
Pence isn’t exactly compensating with the bat for what he is giving up defensively. He should go to LF pretty soon. (I haven’t read anything about his playing injured, so it seems like a sudden drop off)
That is what a progressive, forward thinking manager would do: get him some time in LF and rest him at least one day a week. Bochy won’t “disrespect” the veteran and instead hurts the team.
I think he’s done (Pence). I don’t see him being any better in left. His reads and breaks are so incredibly bad this season, it’s like he needs Ryne Duren glasses
Wow. Factor into that a rapidly declining Span…appx $30MM dead money for 2018.
Not sure you saw him in Colorado. I know you did in Atlanta. And now here. This is a very complete decline.
The idea of the shut down inning seems completely foreign to this team!
Dyson, Okert, Kontos in a tie game in the 8th. These are no longer the good ol’ days.
Sabean and Evans have some clean up on Aisle Them to do
Cueto: seven innings, five walks and only three Ks, one mistake to location = one run. No decision, thanks to our awful bullpen.
More blame to offense
True.
Both true
He was going to get a no decision , before the bull pen came in .
Matthew is correct and Bochy disagrees. Revolving door relievers when one is no better than the other. Much more important to see guys work through an inning, not to further their one-out conditioning, especially considering it usually doesn’t work anyway
Dividing an inning up between three pitchers is just Bochy’s way. However, it worked much better when we had the Core Four and any one of them was competent enough to get an out. He’s using a formula which no longer works.
For the most part, he had very defined roles back then. Affeldt was 7, Romo 8, Casilla 9, and Lopez was LOOGY. In the last season and a half, Bruce has over managed once he lost confidence…this pen and this manager are not good for each other
Not good for each other especially when it’s rookies still trying to find their groove in MLB. Bochy’s got to realize that now he’s managing for NEXT year already. He should let these rookies try to function in high stress situations.
Wow. Just f***** wow.
Meek. Weak. Disgusting.
Where is Firestarter Familia when you really need him??
Not a good place for promising futures like Slater Jones Crick Arroyo etc to be witnessing. Or maybe it is. They’ll make every effort to clean it up.
I feel bad for Kid Crick.
Great analysis by Smoltz, a HOF pitcher. I hope Crick hears that. From Smoltz.
I got the Mets broadcast. What’d he say?
Young pitchers often don’t change their velocity and location in pressure situations. That usually works in the minors, but not against MLB hitters.
Me too. Get into the clubhouse and wash this sheet off. Tomorrow is another opportunity. I liked what I saw of Crick in Atlanta.
Let’s see how Crick responds.
Probably 7-1.
He’s still not missing any bats.
Nope…doesn’t look like he has stuff or movement to do so regularly
Well, if tomorrow’s game is the same as the usual, I’ll just bounce early to go watch the parade.
Deer likes it when you talk about bouncing peaches
This team has a chronic case if Gumby Shoulders, and I understand why
It’s like they’ve lost the will to compete at times.
Losing doesn’t look good, no matter what, but they’re trying.
Glad he’s given Crick the entire 9th no matter what. Crick doesn’t have it tonight but players gotta play on nights when they do, and don’t, have it. We were gonna lose anyhow so might as well give the youngsters a thorough look-see.
They’re trying. Pence and Belt both ran hard down the line.
How do they miss that!? Not. Even. Close.
Hunger
Ump wants to go home.
two!! two!! we got two!!
I really think it’s wrong and unfair to blame this on lack of effort. I have no doubt that the players, particularly those that have had so much success, are embarrassed about what has happened. They’re trying, but the team just isn’t good enough.
The lack of effort is the lack of enough professional pride adjust. It just defies logic that so many players who should be in their primes have collapsed physically. Mental.checkout or laziness is the most likely explantation. If there are physical explanations, why is the team hiding them?
Getting older doesn’t require an explanation. Pence is 34. Span is 33. Crawford hit 30. They are the third or fourth oldest team in baseball.
I don’t care what the record says, this loss hurts.
Why because it was #50 already?
Only 60 more to go!
Think of it as Spring Training in June.
How did Cricks stuff look? I know he got touched up a bit
Meh.
I much prefer pen arms with high heat. He’s a RH Blach with less MPH
What were the mph’s?
A few low 90’s …
He was around 95, most of the time.
are you 2 talking about the same guy?
I honestly was not watching close enough. I’m sure TO has it right
Guess I wasn’t watching mph. They seemed on him
They were. You were right about the lack of movement.
Cespedes guy he blew away with high heat .
Velo not the problem, Bro. Location was awful today.
Good. Ya i know his fastball is supposed to be good and had good velocity
His first pitch in Atlanta was 96.
What were you watching? He was throwing in the mid-90s.
The Giants bullpen is something else.
First batter for Giants relief pitchers today:
Dyson 3B
Okert 1B
Kontos 2B
Crick 3B
Not a winning pattern but typical for current Giants
Look at the bright side, they get Strickland back tomortow.
I mean, getting the best member of the bullpen back is not nothing.
I wonder if Surf and Greek took up parkour and are jumping all over strip malls in Florida as a diversionary tactic?
Kershaw looks like Matt Moore so far
Until that AB
Yeah he’s like Moore minus the two out two run bloop single.
You forgot two strike
Never mind. Moore gives up 8 in the same situation
Kershaw doesn’t look like Moore but Chatwood is doing his best right handed version of Johnny Sanchez.
lol, Matt Moore is the Bizarro Kershaw.
Kershaw should win tonight.
When the Dodgers win the division, he will once again get both CY and MVP votes.
Pederson look like Belt?
Footy look like Rosenthal?
did anyone say anything about that wild pitch in the top of the 9th? posey was kind of lackadaisical, no?
I thought the same thing. Buster is frustrated catching this AAAA bullpen That’s no excuse…it is what it is.
We all saw it, and most of us thought it. What’s the point of banging on him at that point?
Meaning I’m with you here.
I agree.
Yes, on this blog, Posey is bullet proof , so no comment .
Posey first pitch, .407
3-1, .420
3-0, .421
How many at bats in each . All 3 situations look for the fastball .
Gee, Peter, considering how every at bat features a first pitch, whattayathink?
But it sure looks like working the count can be just as successful as that thing you heard Matt Williams mention that one time.
Yeah that’s the point, more chances at 0-0 pitches, and it also makes sure you do not get in 0-2, 1-2, counts where Pitcher has the advantage .
Unless you miss, which puts you immediately in the hole. You’re basically saying, “It’s successful when it works!”
Again, do you think the most car accidents happen 1 mile from home because it’s more dangerous?
Ir works for Buster because he has rhe discilpine to look for a certain pitch and a certain location. Doing what Ian Desmond does is sheer insanity. Assuming the Rox make the post season he will break their hearts. You heard it here first.
you were right yesterday about that guy on the yanks i couldn’t think of. his name was kevin maas, and he hit 21 HR’s in like 79 games. you knew him from cal?
No, just know my base ball sluggers, and like DrLefty have a very good memory ., the benefit of never taking drugs are drinking alcohol .
Potn
Everyone in the Bay knew of Mass at that time, he was covered in the local press.
He is tired of the losing and putting the team on his back. No excuse, but certainly understandable.
No
Bullpen to the rescue (again) Both Kontos and Okert allowed hits and an inherited runner to score in the first batter they faced. Not a recipe for success. Kontos among the worst in baseball in allowing inherited runners to score.
In the meaningless victories department Belt on pace for 30 HR.
At least Belt got Johnny off the hook. Johnny pitched very well and deserved a better fate. This season, got to celebrate small victories.
Belt made up for Striking out with runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out, so he broke even for the game . I did like that Krukow chewed him out for bunting in his 1st at bat in the 2nd with 1 out, 1st time I agree with Krukow .
Broke even? Only if you expect a hitter to be successful 100% of the time.
Lol, admitting that you’ve only agreed once with a guy who has played and been around the game at the highest level for 40 or so years must be quite humbling!
Tontake our collective minds off of the train wreck Giants here is an interesting article about measuring home run distance in the present and based on evidence from many years ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/sports/baseball/home-runs-measurement-.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share
Home run mythology must now compete with cutting-edge efforts to quantify mighty blasts from “pitch delivery to the conclusion of the event.”
Baseball has caught up the the Giants this season, and that is at least part of the reason things have gotten so bad. All of the Giants’ opponents from the WS are now also-rans — Detroit, Texas and KC have all fallen on hard times this season. Look at our NL playoff opponents too — Cincinnati, St. Louis, Atlanta, the Pirates, are all mediocrities too. The Giants have had a nice run, and now the wheel has turned.
Still, this turn to the worst seemed to happen awful suddenly.
Faster than a cat can lick its ass, it was swift. But until we are mathematically eliminated, to steal a quote from Gandalf, there is hope. A fools hope maybe, but hope nonetheless. I would be first in line for some nasty foul crow if the Giants can turn this awful season around and get into the post season. The talent is there. What’s mind numbing is when the Giants play great and come from behind for a win, you’d think they’d have some drive going into the next game. But I’ve seen it more than once. They lay an egg. That’s where the mystery lies. Somewhere in there.
Sure, but you gotta figure the going up was well worth the coming down.
I’m honestly content for an obscene amount of years. I waited through 25 years of fandom to see a WS win (short amount of time compared to many on TWG), then I got another, then I got another. I love seeing them win, but seeing them win a pornographic amount of WS titles so close together satisfied me for a lonnnnnng time.
Exactly. Thank you
Yep. I saw them in 1958. Lotta seasons.
KC has gotten back into this thing but the rest are uncanny.
I know…bastards 🙂
The Royals will be losing many of their core after this season, so it’s one last hurrah for them!
“Now, Jon. This team is one win away from beginning an impressive win streak, eh, which we know they’re capable of. These men are professional, proud ballplayers. Eh, we know hey’re working hard for uh, da fans. Now, having said that – We just gotta get em going.”
I agree skipper. What I’ve found, as a fan – there has never been a win streak, in the history of baseball, that has not started with anything other than , you guessed it – A Win! Let’s go, Giants. Let’s go!
3 reasons the Giants have crumbled.
– not addressing bullpen after last year.
— not addressing left field.
— the love for mediocre aging players
They did address the first problem but melancon and law have been much worse than they expected and smith got injured. The other 3 are really all the same problem.
I would argue that the LF hole was there for years and if they would’ve addressed that…perhaps the other holes could been addressed by now. Oh well…time to clear the decks of players that aren’t “keepers”…get prospects whenever possible…and let younger replacements get some MLB looks.
This is the year. This is the year that Belt cracks 20!
And gets traded lol.
Could be but 19 of them will be solo shots.
A rival general manager describe Johnny Cueto‘s potential trade value as “lower than a rental’s” due to the added complication of Cueto’s opt-out clause, which could it hard for the Giants to find a trade partner. If a team were to acquire a normal pending free agent at the deadline and that player got injured or performed poorly, the two sides would likely just part ways after the year. If such a scenario happened to Cueto, however, he might not opt out, so the new team would be taking on a potentially diminished asset for the remaining four years/$84MM on Cueto’s contract.
All you need to know is that a respected writer pointed out this past week, is James Shields got 4 yrs/75M.
If you think Cueto’s numbers are too high, you’re wrong. Basically someone out there will be happy and willing to pay even more.
Every year is different, though. There wasn’t much on the market the year Shields signed that deal. And the CBA has changed, making big long-term free agent deals less attractive. Remember Cueto would want to do BETTER than four more years at $21 million per. Is he really THAT attractive right now?
Buzby seems to think so.
https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2017/6/22/15855314/johnny-cueto-sf-giants-contract-opt-out-extension
Good take on the situation. Lots of money out there. That’s why I keep saying don’t look at the current stats and claim that’s the only determining factor in a trade.
Says a rival GM who would like to see a lower price.
It may be that no deal gets done, Cueto opts out, and the Giants get a draft pick next June.
The departing free agent draft pick compensation isn’t nearly as good starting this year, right? I don’t remember the changes that were made to the Qualifying Offer.
I think it’s the same–a compensation round pick–but only if the player signs for 50 million or more, which Cueto certainly will. And the team that signs him doesn’t have to give up their pick, I think.
If the signing team isn’t giving up their pick, that would mean the pick isn’t nearly as valuable though, right? The difference between a 15-20 draft pick and a 32 draft pick?
I still think it’s within the range of possibility that Cueto will decide that 4 years/$84 million from the Giants is the best he can do and won’t opt out. He’ll be 32 and he’s not exactly setting the world on fire this year. If he wants ace money for his declining years, keeping the contract he has might actually be his best bet. However, if he’d like to leave because the Giants suck and don’t have enough Latino players, then I guess he takes his chances on the open market.
Maybe there’s an extra 10-20 million out there and he’ll try for in the AL.
Funny how the Giants were the first team to have Latin players.
That’s exactly right. If a rental bombs out, you’ve only lost what the rental costs you. If cueto bombs out, you lost that plus a huge amount of money.
Maybe the Giants need to quit focusing on winning because it ain’t workin. They should instead focus on seeing to it that their opponent loses.
Dodgers won their 50th game and their minor leagues are loaded. They will trade Puig for more chips.
Giants lost their 50th and their farm system is Poop on a stick.
I kind of really really want Puig for Cueto. It seems fair and a good fit. Dodgers get 3 months of Cueto to plug their injury-prone starting staff, and can afford the contract if he somehow opts in. Giants get an OF who doesn’t hit free agency until 2020, and not only still has potential, but has a higher floor than most players. Buuuuuuut I’m also someone who is entertained by Puig. Many here aren’t and I can’t argue with them.
The only way that works is if there’s an intermediary team the Dodgers deal with first, and that team trades Puig for Cueto. They would never, ever help us!
But good trades help both teams! Giants get 2 years of an upside guy making what Span makes (and who the Dodgers have shopped numerous times) and they get a shored up rotation for the postseason. There’s really no reason teams within the division should have this hang-up, unless they’re insecure that they’re getting fleeced and about to look like fools.
It iis what it is. They have made 3 trades since them moved west. The only one of any consequence was Dodgers sending Maldonado to SF. But maybe they sensed he would end up screwing them ;). It’s naive to think your biggest division rival you face 18 times a year isn’t a factor. Not to mention that Puig is a d..k and possibly the last guy G’s would want in their clubhouse. Interesting fantasy but it would never happen.
Along with all that Puig nonsense, he hasn’t been playing good baseball for quite some time. Roberts candidly admitted that when he starts he’s mainly in there for defense. He’s been hitting sixth/seventh. No thank you.
8th with 14 jacks! But in know way does Puig ever wear a Giants jersey .
Puig and bumgarner would murder each other. It just isn’t a good idea.
I am also entertained by Puig. I was watching his ABs last night. What goes on in his head? There is a unique drummer inside there. Puig and Belt neck and neck in a great homerun race for what its worth.
Check out his remarks on that beisbol link. He won’t thrive in MLB anywhere but Miami, and maybe not there. Massive culture shock for that young man.
There’s probably a match there. Maybe something around Puig for Volquez? And I bet they’d love Ozuna.
The Giants 100-loss race after 77 games:
1985 team: 28-49
2017 team: 27-50
Holy losing streak Batman! ArrrGhhghREHGHhffhhGGhh! Thwack! Zowie!
Good 50 player interview with Latin players on their experience playing beisbol in America.
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19625385/beisbol-experience-mlb-50-man-interview#/
From Ken Rosenthal
“A rival general manager describes Johnny Cueto’s potential trade value as “lower than a rental’s” due to the added complication of Cueto’s opt-out clause, which could make it hard for the Giants to find a trade partner. If a team were to acquire a normal pending free agent at the deadline and that player got injured or performed poorly, the two sides would likely just part ways after the year. If such a scenario happened to Cueto, however, he might not opt out, so the new team would be taking on a potentially diminished asset for the remaining four years/$84MM on Cueto’s contract.”
I’ve heard this before. Not sure where, it’s one of those deja vu all over again things.
And then somebody replies: It’s a rival GM trying to drive down the price.
Should this just be seen as a an opportunity to acquire a free agent midseason, an opportunity for a front line pitcher with big game experience on a 4/84 mil contract plus the remainder of this year with an opt out at the end of this season?
And the same goes for Melancon and Belt. This is your opportunity to sign a free agent midseason to fit a specific need for your playoff team. Nunez is the only perfect trade target on the Giants; expiring contract.
The Giants and inquiring team can negotiate on prospect/s and cash transactions to make something happen. If there is an impasse in negotiation that extends past the deadline, the Giants can always put those contracted players on waivers and keep trying through the end of August.
The whole thing about “perfect trade target” is when opportunities meet. It seems to me that GM’s don’t always list contract situation first. They tend to list “this season”, meaning will a guy help them get over the hump. Some are rentals, some are long term, some are still mewhere in the middle.
If the players with no-trade agree: If a team desperately needs a starter, it will be Cueto. If they desperately need a closer, it will be Melancon. If a team needs a first baseman/Lefty pop, it will be Belt. Contracts will be considered but not kill a deal. It’s a game of immediacy
Amen on a Sunday morning. Can I get a witness?
Especially those Nats. Win now!! Astros have to want to go for it. Yankees can totally take on contract. What of the Cubs? Fresh off a title, but with struggling pitching. The Twins? The Brewers? Is there anybody out there?
You pray? Or you poking those of us that do? Keep praying, my respectful son.
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