by
GreekGiant
Is baseball a “white man’s sport”? Let’s reframe that question in terms of values rather than the artificial construct of “race” which has no scientific basis. There is no dialogue about “race” without looking at American history. Baseball is the sport most intricately interwoven in the fabric of Americana, sports history, and the talk of what a sports cultural values are. Recently, Adam Jones, one of my favorite ballplayers and athletes, was quoted as saying “Baseball is a white man’s game” in reference to the ongoing dialogue surrounding Colin Kaepernick’s protest and the surrounding controversy. I’m not going to explore the Kaepernick situation here, other than to say decorum and respect for one’s teammates and the flag should take precedence over one’s personal political beliefs.
What is Race?
Regarding whiteness and baseball, I believe one has to first explore what the term “race” has come to signify. Let’s begin with sociology and history. “Race” is a half-hearted attempted by culturally-biased European scholars and historians to justify colonialist expansion, slavery and of course the generally Euro-centric worldview that saw economic and military dominance as pre-ordained to French, English, Dutch, Spanish and other Western European nations… The term “race” is nothing more than an attempt at creating typology based on skin color, similar to the way scientists categorize the animal kingdom using genus and species terminology.
There is no such thing as purity of races, skin colors, language or other signifiers that distinguish human beings from one another. Therefor I categorically reject the concept of “race”. I prefer the term “culture”. I define culture as a series of values, rituals, behavioral systems, and customs that define one group from another. This concept is not tied to skin color or language. Let’s look at the Extras Refugees tribe: we are pretty diverse in many regards but one: our tribe shares love of Giants baseball….The Giants and our adoration of this team have transcended skin color and “racial” questions…
Now what about “whiteness” and baseball?
What makes baseball the target of facile minds is its innate conservatism. By conservatism I am not referring to anything resembling the American Republican Party or its politics of cynicism that foster fear and hate. No, I call baseball conservative because of its special relationship to its past. In no sport do history, legacy and players from bygone eras play an even comparable role as they do in Baseball. History is presence and when you have history behind you, within you, whether a fan or a player, you become imbued with a sense of respect and dignity, with the code of honor that values the past. Indeed one of the keys to the dignity of the game is its appreciation for the code, for playing the game “the right way”, which may be loosely defined as avoiding showmanship, avoiding bringing attention to oneself, avoiding showing up your opponent with such interesting unwritten rules as the impropriety of stealing a base with a big lead or bunting for a base hit when the opposing pitcher is in the midst of a no-hitter. These codes have recently come into question by a variety of young players in the Major Leagues for a variety of reasons.
By paying homage to their forebears, by knowing their place in history, understanding their statistical accomplishments and appreciating their cultural relevancy beyond the game, players instantly become acculturated and carry forward baseball’s enduring legacy of respect and dignity, thereby contributing to the game’s constancy, making it a metric by which we measure the technological, cultural, political, and social evolutions of America.
It is precisely this innate conservatism that has come into question and may be the inspiration for criticisms of baseball by the likes of Adam Jones, David Ortiz and others who claim it is a “white man’s game.” Certain players like Bryce Harper, the 2015 National League MVP and of the most dynamic five-tool players since Barry Bonds, have begun to question these codes as they desire to express more passion and individuality upon hitting a home run or making a great defensive play. In their eyes, the codes of baseball have become stale or, as Harper was quoted as saying “tired”. When compared to the showmanship and flamboyance of basketball players, football stars and soccer athletes, baseballers are reserved.
The Concept of the Club
Certainly the culture of baseball, the very concept of the game’s origin being a gentleman’s athletic club (to this day we refer to “baseball clubs” or “ball clubs” and we would never utter “football clubs” or “basketball clubs”) is the root of this conservative spirit, this emphasis placed on reserve, quiet dignity, and controlled emotion that always implies a team-first sense of propriety and ethos. These bourgeois European values often intersect violently with today’s populace, particularly those raised on the displaced narcissism (born out of insecurity) of selfies, social media and the constant safety of overly protected (spoiled) parenting.
But it is not the age of the smartphone alone that has changed our understanding of pace and time with regards to baseball. When combined with the short-attention span dictates of today’s fans and viewers, the era of the flashy athlete, the narcissistic showboating emphasis on individual highlights removed from context of any game, the perception of decorum among fans and athletes alike changes. The respect for these “old” “conservative” gentlemanly values changes and comes into question.
To some we live in an era of crass narcissism and low-life attention-seeking. To others, it is simply a change in mores that has influenced how we play and spectate, how we inter-relate and interact as athletes and competitors. To be sure, the influence of African American culture on today’s athletes reverberates across many realms of the sporting world from how athletes dress (witness the new baggy pants of ballplayers and the use of jewelry on the field) to how they comport themselves in the heat of a game and after a victory. NBA anyone?
The Fusion of Cultures Is What Makes Baseball Special
African American culture (hip hop culture in particular) is an influencer in baseball because the many celebratory and stylistic elements of Black America have permeated through and percolated up to all echelons of both the sporting and cultural realms, from hip hop in music to excitable displays of passion on and off the field/court/arena. It is precisely this tribal root, this “Africa” origin of musicality and joy, of visual brightness and passion that is often translated into an individual’s comportment and evolves from a contextual communal celebratory way of being in the world to a self-obsession that balances the latent trauma and darkness deep within the pain and agony, the dark history of the African American experience. Watching the jubilation of Lebron James or Barry Bonds is like experiencing a history lesson that begins with the African slave trade by Colonial European powers and ends with today’s social-media conscious superstars.
When the conservative Anglo-American values of baseball’s origin meet up with the excitable and flamboyant cultures of Black American or Caribbean Hispanic players, the results are often a conflict and misunderstanding of intent and origin among fans and players alike. This clash of cultures and styles is partly what makes baseball so uniquely multi-cultural. In what other sport does one get to experience the joys and athletic prowess of Japanese, Korean, Dominican, Venezuelan, Texan and Canadian players in one game?
Love this. And, I’m glad this community has shown we can have nature and thoughtful conversations on sensitive subjects.
I’m sure when Adam Jones moved through the levels of baseball, the higher he got, the fewer African Americans he shared a dugout with. But the demographics and numbers show his statement to be overstated. I’m not sure he meant it to sound as stark as it came out.
The nation is somewhere around 13% African American. Baseball is 8%… Not tragically out of whack. The NFL and NBA are 60-70%. Adam should know to “blame” those sports, which tells me the diversity of athletic options for African Americans IS diverse.
Jones , no doubt, feels isolated and powerless. Maybe he should take a breath and think of what it must have been like for Monte, Jackie, Willie and others who paved the way through a true white man’s sport. Maybe he can realize that fostering a conversation will help, but word choices matter. Maybe he can also realize that crafting a full-view statement about potential drivers of the demographics would gain him a broader and more understanding audience.
I really need to make one political point, though: I am a fiscal “conservative” and a social “progressive”, and I often vote for Republican candidates. Because I vote that way, I would be branded a cynic who fosters fear and hate? Absurd….I find that a gross overstatement by the Democrat Party, trumpeted by the media, and adopted by too many good and otherwise thoughtful people. It’s the go-to move for vote harvesting…so, please, please -such statements are shallow and thoughtless and paint too many fair minded people unfairly. Think of the recent statements made by the Democratic nominee for President: I will never vote for her ( the choices are terrible this time) . “A basket of deplorable st hat are racist, homophobic, xenophobic….” the most ridiculous, vile, overstated political lie of late. Politics are ugly. The other side is nowhere near as deplorable as any of us think, but discussion -talking AND listening – has been replaced by stubborn, unbending, ideological selfishness. I know you didn’t mean it that way…
The “deplorable “comment was unfortunate but as to the faction to what it referred to- it was true.
Whatever. I mean…everything about it is disgusting. “It was true” about a tiny fraction of the populace that is overexposed by a manipulative media that ignores the “deplorables” at the exact opposite end of the spectrum.
Forget about her opponent: she is the epitome of elitist politician who should be in prison for life, and would be if she weren’t connected.
But I can’t forget about her opponent. I would vote for ANYONE who is not Donald Trump. I’d vote for you or the Chef or PJ or Adam Jones (probably not old enough) or Chuckles the Clown.
I’m a Democrat and I don’t feel as negatively towards Secretary Clinton as you do. My own views were/are closer to Bernie Sanders, and I do wish we had a less controversial standard-bearer (Tim Kaine would work great for me, for example, or Joe Biden). But none of that matters. #NeverTrump
The wake they both left behind is unprecedented. Trump won’t be President. If she’s elected, it will be over immediately. My BIG issue is if folks were exposed to the actual level of her ( and Bill’s) level of criminal ( not just money) activity, there would have been no way that her party would have elected her. We have become a 3rd World level corrupt society. She is the absolute worst and most corrupt career politician in our lifetime. I dislike Trump because he is honestly disgusting. I dislike her because she is dishonestly disgusting.
And those who trot out ” I fear for wild safety ” with Donald underestimate her blind ambition
Be that as it may, those are our choices, and Trump is worse. And it’s not close. At least Hillary is informed and intelligent. Trump is a caricature.
Hillary is a crook. A career criminal. A lying, cheating scoundrel. I say this as an informed and reasonably intelligent citizen who still does not know who I will vote for, because Trump is eminently unqualified to be our President. If I had to vote tomorrow, I’d probably vote Libertarian.
Vote as you wish, but the caricature you present of Ms. Clinton is more derived from innuendo claimed as fact, than reality. She’s not going to be, as I have said, a candidate for sainthood any time soon, but neither is she as bad as you said. She’s an effective politician, that’s sin enough to most, but far better than pistols at dawn.
Wow, CC, I’m amazed how well you write. “but far better than pistols at dawn”. Love it.
It cracks me up to see HRC painted as “a crook” and “unfit for office” by the Trump, who has literally cheated people out of their money for decades, avoided paying taxes, and has never held public office. I’m not crazy about the Clintons, but I’ll hold my nose and voter for her. The alternative is simple implausible.
If we had a parliamentary political system we might have alternatives, but we don’t.
I think it’s very, very close. Sorry, just my take
Just stop.You have perverted the intent of GG’s post.
I commented on a part of it…you disagree with my take on that response. Quit overstating because you disagree with me.
Matthew, you have made your point .OVER AND OVER. i wouldn’t give a shit about it except for the UN-thoughtful nature of your comments.
OK, time to go back to talking about our Giants.
You start.
Chuckles and Big Country Mike would be an unbeatable ticket.
The Clintons have been milking the American political system for 20 years. Power, greed and corruption, not to mention lack of morals and values. Trump is a megalomaniac who seriously scares me. This is the best we can do? Shame on us.
There’s always an escape route: ALVISE FOR PRESIDENT. Ops, I’m afraid I was not borne in the U.S.A…(what a silly rule).
Where do I send my contribution?
Thank you, but I’d have no need of money. The Contarinis have been trading spices for about ten centuries. There’s an old adage here in Venice: A bag of pepper is worth the life of one man.
Alvise! So good to hear from you! We were concerned due to your absence, and now you’ve found us here. So glad.
Hi TF !
What you and Matthew fail to acknowledge is that the lack of choice is also YOUR fault. You don’t like Trump as your standard-bearer and feel despair at the prospect of another Clinton presidency? YOUR. FAULT.
You had what, 17 or so Republicans vying for the nomination? Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich–any of those would have been better. John McCain and Mitt Romney were at least reasonable alternatives to President Obama. You couldn’t get your collective acts together, and instead you have this…thing.
If you want to be mad at the Dems for picking Hillary as the nominee, fine. But who are you mad at about Trump? Look in the mirror.
Oh, stop. Hillary isn’t YOUR fault. Trump isn’t ours. The political machine is a corrupt out of control media manipulated shit show. So….Stop it.
“Look in the mirror”…. Oh how that could derail this blog.
No, I voted for Hillary, and I’ll do it again. I’ll own it. Republicans could have rallied around someone and gotten a candidate who would be a decent alternative. They just didn’t. It’s a dysfunctional operation, and you can’t blame it all on the media.
If Kasich were the GOP candidate, this race would be over in his favor.
He wasn’t bad, actually, as Republicans go. Of all of them, he would have been my choice.
He and Marco were my top two…alas….ughh
Frankly, although I saw and witnessed what happened in the GOP’s deliberations for a POTUS candidate, I have no idea how it happened, other than inattention on the part of party regulers. Preibus basically ran a money laundering operation for the Kochs in Wisconsin prior to run the RNC, so maybe because of his lack of real political skill just lead to him allowing a perfect storm to develop on his watch.
Think that we, Italians, had to suffer the Trump-like Berlusconi for more than 20 years! At least you Americans can kick your bums out every 4 years. YOU LUCKY COUNTRY !
Calm down, Alvise. You don’t want to lose your computer privileges.
Don’t understand, Doc.
POTD
If Clinton for whatever reason was out of the race and replaced by Biden I’d vote for him in a second and while I sometimes vote for Democrats if I like them (such as DiFi) I have never voted for one for President. What an jmprovement he’d be over the two running right now.
Biden rocks, and the more I see of Tim Kaine, the better I like him, too.
“In prison for life”? So much for “nature(sic) and thoughtful conversations on sensitive subjects.”
If you know her history, you would agree.
So should Donald.
We’re screwed
i’m going to ask GG to delete his post. It was not meant to be a forum for your political views.
Dude, get over it. Is it outside your safe zone? He made a political comment. I responded. It’s a fucking forum. You’re pissed because you disagree with my opinion. Relax.
No, i’m pissed for the reason I stated. Fuck you.
OK. I got too fired up. So did you. Time out
You’re being quite generous
Huh?
It’s a one way street in these parts, Croix.
That’s bullshit.You brought your political views into this “conversation” and then you go “Trump-ian” on anyone who objects to you making this a forum for Clinton hating- you started this, now end it.
I tried to get you to relax, and you won’t. This place has been a Hate Trump Zone, which is fine, and you didn’t mind that, did you? Did you?
That in itself paints YOU as intolerant to ANY opposing statement.
I think Trump is a dangerous idiot. I’ll bet you’re OK with that. I think she’s a dangerous crook…that sends you into a “Fuck you” tizzy.
Who is thoughtless? Who? Me? Fine…whatever
Again- bullshit. You began your comments with some reasonable thoughts and then veered off into your Hillary “hating zone”. And then you object to people responding to that with their own views.
As to my opinion of DT, he doesn’t believe a single word of what he says. It would scare the shit out of HIM were he to be elected President.
Only Trump hating is acceptable. People need to understand that.
Matt turned this into a Clinton hate-a-thon and then objects to “Trump hating”.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Matthew was expressing a view about Clinton which is similar to how most here feel about Trump. From the response, it’s pretty clear that you and others don’t simply disagree with that view, but believe that, because you disagree, that view should not be expressed. There’s the problem.
The problem is that this not the forum incendiary political views. And I didn’t say shit about hating Trump.
Greek Giant said something about the party I belong to… You should know about defending yourself. The difference is I don’t grab my toys, scream “fuck you” and run home. I have tried to settle it down, but YOU keep going. Knock it off, you intolerant grump.
You started the fire and kept it going with anyone who disagreed with you. i admit that I should have ignored you, but YOU were hateful in your first comment- and that’s inarguable . It was arson- now put your fire out.
Yup. I was…folks on here are ” hateful” 10 times a day on a Republican….no one dare say anything there. I say one thing and you go ape crazy.
Guess what? I respect much about you, but this? Today? Absurd. Your “fuck you”? What a pompous baby.
We have totally different political views. But YOU are tremendously more intolerant than I am. Fact.
Please give it a rest Mateo.
I’m talking to Michael who will not stop insulting me.
If every liberal on here “gives it a rest”, believe me, so will I.
Paul, I am quite tired of being branded every day by people who are calling us names directly and indirectly. Guess what? GG’s comment upset me. Guess what? Had he made a common insult about liberals, this place would eviscerate him. You know that. I’m over it. Over it.
You read my posts every day…you know what kind of person I am. Michael has blown this tremendously out of proportion and I’m supposed to give it a rest…because why? Seriously. I’m supposed to take ” fuck you” along with personal insults.
I’m past the conversation with everyone, but he has to get the last word making false claims about who I am.
Feel free to ignore our conversation. In fact, please do. I am always the one who mediates, apologizes, negotiates….not this time . Sorry
It’s a new day. Let it go. Get back to beisbol.
Yup. I’m in. Sorry for the aside.
Did I start a rant about Trump or Clinton ? Did I say shit about hating either one of them? YOU were
“Ape Crazy” in your first comments. And I have never been “hateful” about Republicans.
I’m not “folks” , talk to them about hating Republicans. You are doubling down when you should be apologizing.
I already had and you kept going . I did twice. Now? Again? Nope.
Non-responsive. Try again.
You wore me down. I just want to be friends. I’m sorry if it was my fault if I incited too much political talk. You’re a good dude, and we are at opposite ends of this specific spectrum…but let’s be adults and put it behind us. I should never bring these things up here, but a nerve was hit by the blog. Again, I’m sorry for my part in this. I am saying this in part because I’m holding out hope you make me pan fried chicken.
It’s forgotten,pal.
I GET PAN FRIED CHICKEN!!!!!!
I honestly didn’t intend to offend or upset you this much. I was commenting on a blog. I love and respect you. I’m sorry. I was just trying to share my (unpopular) opinion, but not at all trying for ” thoughtless”… I do everything with forethought
And that is exactly the problem: the growing belief that differing political views should not be allowed to be expressed. It’s happening on college campuses all the time. Today, it’s “conservative” beliefs. Tomorrow, it could be what you believe in. It’s un-American and dangerous.
So…you’re down with Colin Kaepernick and other athletes expressing their views about racial injustices in our society? Or is it only conservative beliefs that need protection?
I’ve never said he shouldn’t be allowed to sit, kneel or turn cartwheels. He has the right to say whatever he wants, which I’ve said all along. He doesn’t have the right to expect that everyone will be respectful of his actions and/or message. Everyone else enjoys the same freedom of expression that he does.
“He doesn’t have the right to expect that everyone will be respectful of his actions and/or message. ”
Exactly. Neither should Matthew.
That’s true, but you’re arguing that the entire post should be deleted because he expressed his views.
That’s not why. It should be deleted because this ALWAYS turns into the kind of shit that Matt started. White and black in baseball turns into a rant about about the Clintons? And then- Trump hating, then what?
So and so hates blacks? So and so thinks that Latin players should not be allowed in MLB?
I appreciate GG’s post but not it wrought.
The KKK has the right to march down the street down the street in support of its beliefs. Is everyone else required to stand respectfully by while they do so?
Hear hear! GG, did you really mean to brand me and ~50% of the populace as those who foster fear and hate? You paint a very broad brush with intolerant paint. Can we not keep politics out this little bastion of Giants baseball?
You’re showing your stubborn, unbending ideological selfishness. She was absolutely telling the truth, politically incorrecet yes but which is funny since that’s what Trump supporters LOVE about him. Just about everything he says is ridiculous, vile overstated and a complete lie…
I actually liked her better for saying it. I’ve heard a lot of people say that.
But, again : based on what personal observations YOU have made? You? Not what you have been fed by a biased, bought, media?
We have NO credible candidate. And, this argument of “he’s worse” tells all.
If you know any Trump supporter, which most simply won’t admit lest they be branded….do you think they are all those things? It’s why I simply can’t adopt the Democrat Party. They yell about who the other side just as much with no more true data, but are simply supported by a complicit media with an agenda.
See what Greek started?😍
Maybe YOU’ve been fed observations by a biased media about Hillary Clinton. Ever considered that?
I honestly try to be open minded… I would have voted for Bernie. She disgusts me. And I go off of history ” on record” way more than media…I trust NO media reports…usually only court depositions.
What’s to trust…you read it all, and let critical thinking sort it out.
Totally with you…
No, she wasn’t.
Again, if the argument ( and everyone on here is using it) is ” look at him”, you are absolutely missing the point
You seem to be left with a choice between Francis Urquhart and Bozo the clown in your mind.
Yup….
It’ll be interesting to see, years from now, when accurate histories are written which of the two candidates will stand the test of reflection. I just finished a history of Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton who were similar political foes, and participated in the formation of this country. Neither man was the figure they were portrayed in our current popular history, and their political rivalry made today’s look like a tiff in a schoolyard. One ended public life at the hands of the other, and Burr became when revealed after Hamilton’s death, a traitor, and scoundrel of epic proportions. IMO, Trump is a scoundrel of epic proportions and the Clinton a person vilified beyond what is reasonable. With sainthood being denied to both coming as a surprise to no one.
Great analogy.
For all the “Fugees” on the blog (Slikk, you know this is a shout out!)…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yYP19D7bG4
Thank you for your thoughtful post.
Not that intent or design is to be implicated, but I do wonder about the “whiteness” of the Giants. There may not be any statistical difference after all. There has always been a strong Latin American presence, but the African American presence has been noticeably lacking in SF, even relative to the trend across MLB. Denard Span is trying to represent, or the Giants are trying to represent, but I can’t say it’s going all that well outside of a two month stretch – the scapegoating isn’t best look either. In terms of the future in SF, the farm system portends bleak representation by African American ballplayers in SF. Jalen Miller may be the most promising prospect and he’s more or less a marginal C+ prospect that got by in low A ball as a young player. How about recent drafts? Not much happening. In 2015 they grabbed Phil Bickford in front of a promising young A.A. high school outfielder, Nick Plummer. Later that round, they drafted Chris Shaw from Boston College in front of Charlie Hayes’ son, Ke’Bryan, and also in front of A.A. outfielder from University of Tennessee, Christin Stewart. Stewart hit 30 HRs this year across High A and AA with a .903 OPS. Shaw had 21 long balls and a .819 OPS. Am I cherry picking? Absolutely. Is there a systemic effort by the Giants be as white as can be? Most likely not. When the camera pans to the crowd at AT&T, does it look white. I think so. But is that a systemic program? No. Oh boy, what a can of worms…
But great post, GG.
I think you are cherry-picking. I very much doubt that the Giants are systematically trying to avoid signing or drafting African-Americans, and they do have an ethnically diverse coaching staff and many Latin players.
As for the crowd, that’s an economic issue, I’d say. Tickets at AT & T are hella expensive. I realize this especially when I go someplace like San Diego and get great seats for maybe 1/3 of the price I’d pay in SF.
I also think it’s a bit of reverse racism to suggest Span should get a pass on criticism because he’s the only African-American. Span isn’t “representing.” He’s supposed to be the leadoff man and centerfielder, not a token. That’s what he should be judged on, good or bad. He’s having by far the worst season of his career and the signing has been a big disappointment. If he were a white guy having exactly the same season having signed exactly the same deal, we’d all be saying exactly the same things about it. It wasn’t exactly a lovefest for Aaron Rowand, either.
Monte Irvin, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Jim Ray Hart, and others..Juanito Antonio Marichal Sanchez, the Alou family, Orlando Cepeda, and others…then Masanori Murikami …and others.
We can be proud
No the crowd doesn’t look white, it looks black and orange!
Kidding aside, I think when the crowd pans across any crowd at any American game, it looks really white.
A personal story to share related to that – one of the worst racist experiences I ever had was at an A’s/Giants game in 2012 at the coliseum (to this day I refuse to ever attend any game there ever again). It involved a drunk 55 y.o. lady (she told me her age because she said she had sons who looked less miserable than my white boyfriend-at-the-time sitting next to me while she was yelling at me). This lady didn’t show up until the 5th inning and we were accidentally sitting in her seats. When I asked her if she could at least move out of my face while I tried to move and try saying please, I unleashed the monster from hell. For the remainder of the game, she yelled at me nonstop about how I’m a horrible person, that I’m not American because I’m Middle Eastern (frankly, I was surprised she got my ethnicity right, though she doesn’t realize ethnicity is not = to nationality), etc, and how my boyfriend (at the time) should dump me, blah blah blah.
There are two things I remember:
1) that we lost the game to the A’s (and when I tried to move past her to leave, she tried to trip me) but I can’t even tell you how the game went because I spent several innings trying not to cry while looking straight ahead
2) almost as bad as this racist psycho’s rants was the fact that not one person, be it my (all) white friends (and boyfriend) whom I was sitting with, nor any of the strangers around me who were witnessing all this (also all white) spoke up or did anything. Completely utterly humiliating and isolating.
On the bright side, we outlasted the A’s in the postseason that year and went on to win the WS. 😉 Karma.
W. P. Kinsella, author of “Shoeless Joe” from which the movie Field of Dreams was made, died yesterday. I’ve always felt this quote from Shoeless Joe a good one about baseball.
“Baseball is the most perfect of games, solid, true, pure and
precious as diamonds. If only life were so simple. Within the baselines
anything can happen. Tides can reverse; oceans can open. That’s why they
say, “the game is never over until the last man is out.” Colors can
change, lives can alter, anything is possible in this gentle, flawless,
loving game.”
I really think it’s economics. You can make it to the NFL or the NBA (or other pro basketball leagues) a lot more quickly and earn a living. To me the big outrage is how baseball exploits minor leaguers. You either have to be a stud with a huge signing bonus or from an affluent family that will support your dreams (or have a wife that brings home the bacon) to survive and try to make it to the big leagues. And only 10% of them ever do.
If I were a talented athlete who could choose between several sports, I can see why baseball wouldn’t be the path I’d choose.
Bingo.
I have high hopes that the threat of permanent brain damage brings African Americans back into the game of baseball, as opposed to that ridiculous meat grinder, WWE like affair football has become.
Baseball must re-invest in the African-American athlete if they want to attract more if those young men to baseball. Start with a stronger commitment to the RBI program (Reviving Baseball Inner Cities). Perhaps offer scholarship money to allow talented A-A kids to participate in travel baseball.
Spot-on from Lefty re treatment of the minor league players. Not only immoral but also essentially illegal based on the hours they work for the pay they receive.
I agree. I was really hopeful that was beginning with the LLWS being won by an inner city Chicago team. Then the rules committee stepped in.
You don’t think there should be rules?
Given the circumstances, and reasoning used to apply those rules, particularly in Chicago, an accommodation should have been made.
Special rules?
The sin was drawing a player over district lines, in a community(ies) that have to find work arounds to supply gloves and who’s district lines were drawn as a consequence of demographic patterns created by racist housing policies, red lining, for decades by the city/county. It’s not a special rule as much as it is a reparation for a heinous act of racial indifference, who’s consequences a group children still have to harvest today. As I understand it, those kids won every ballgame fair and square.
That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. So particular groups shouldn’t be required to follow the same rules as everyone else? That kind of paternalism hasn’t seemed to accomplish much.
What you call paternalism is a code word from ignoring the reality of what was done in Chicago. They won the series fair and square by playing the best baseball, in spite of what was done to them as a matter of community policy in Chicago. That’s not paternalism, that’s fairness.
Recruiting the best players from other areas is fair?
They were contiguous geographies and the kids and their parents were completely unaware of the situation.
BTW Moose, drop the Socrates act, it’s unbecoming and narcissistic.
I’ve admitted here before that it bothers me that the declining number of black American players in MLB is a problem to be fixed (in RBI program) but the declining number of white American players in the other leagues is not a problem to be fixed. I’d bet there are fewer than 8% in the NBA. Last season the Warriors had zero but I don’t ever remember that being called out, and certainly not as a problem.
This is a really sad post since it shows the level of ignorance of so many sports fans that attempt to speak about race issue, without doing any research.
So it bothers you there are mot enough white players in the NBA huh? You want to go back to the days of George Mikan perhaps? Hell, why not long for the days that AA weren’t allowed to play? Why not? Make it a slow white sport again.
See basketball is much more transparent than baseball. If you were to take NCAA players, Division 1 on down, D2 to D3, I would bet research will show you there are a great deal of white college basketball players.
But with the NBA rosters are only 14 players. Thus there is the question of physical ability, speed, height, etc.
All that makes your argument that much more ignorant.
We’ve had this discussion, you and I, previously. I understand the history and the different paths and obstacles and injustices players have had over the years and generations. I just don’t feel that you can solve problems currently and going forward by being OK with one and not the other. If you feel the declining number of black players in baseball is a problem but the declining number of white players in basketball is fine and dandy then good for you but that doesn’t make me ignorant.
if you can find enough white basketball players to fill more NBA rosters, go right ahead.
But as I said if you look at the overall landscape of college basketball in America, the best players/athletes go to the biggest basketball schools for a reason (and trust me it is not because they have something against white players).
I have numerous friends with kids in the East coast who have played in prep school and play at East Coast Ivy League type schools were the majority of the players are white. But are they good enough to play at the next level? Absolutely not. Maybe a couple at best, but the kids get great educations.
See that’s the point you can’t seem to grasp: that at the core of why there are less African American players in the MLB speaks volumes to the issues in inner city America and the social, economic and political inequalities in their communities.
To compare that to why there are less white players in the NBA is a slap in the face to anyone of color or anyone who understands the root of the problem.
Well that is much better, you make your points and without name calling, good job.
I’m not looking for more white players in the NBA. Just as black athletes are choosing to play football and basketball at the expense of baseball white athletes are choosing to play baseball and hockey and golf and whatever at the expense of football and basketball. If more blacks chose to play baseball there would be more in the MLB and if more whites chose to play football or basketball there would be more of them in the other leagues. Do understand your point that the choices come under different circumstances based on greater societal issues.
It is so sad you fail to comprehend the big picture.
You must be white an well into your 60s or 70s from your deductive reasoning.
I feel sorry for you.
OK, fine, we’re even, you feel sorry for me for your racist reasons, I feel sorry for you for being the angry, insulting, boorish, old whatever it is you are (had to add a few insults in there so we’d really be even). You said it yourself that it’s hard to have a good discussion about this on the blog and you prove yourself to be correct though not exactly for the reasons you gave. I have an open mind and am respecting of other opinions and can have thoughtful discussions but it seems pretty much impossible with a person like you who thinks he knows it all and everyone else is just a fill-in-the-blank nasty word. I’m sure you are just Mr. Sunshine in person though, too bad we only see you in blog form.
Last point from me on this thread; you might be on to something with regard to your 60 to 70 white guy deductive reasoning angle; Bochy is in his 60’s and he’s white, and he put Casillas in to another important save situation despite the likely outcome being the same as the last time and the time before that and…
BTW, it doesn’t bother me that there are fewer white players in the NBA, only that it’s a big so what but the fact that there are fewer black players in the MLB is a problem that garners so much attention.
In your post earlier in the thread you rightly observe that it’s hard to be contructive on such a topic in this type of forum. You forgot to note that it’s especially difficult when there are people like you who simply resort to name calling an further stifle discussion.
It appears that this community is generally intolerant of conflicting political beliefs. Please understand that I am simply tiring of the narrative branding conservatives. If it were done to any other minority, it would get shouted down by you all. You seem to miss that I respect your opinions and choices. Please share that courtesy and we’re good.
political season, good times. We’re good.
Atta babe.
Go, Marge!
Not every political belief deserves to be tolerated. It just so happens that at this point in our country’s history the right side of our political spectrum has been hijacked by some pretty shitty ideas that demonize and isolate people. I hope good folks like you can reign it back in.
Thanks Cabbie. Have a Coke and a smile.
Tolerated? No. Allowed to be expressed? Yes.
“Whiteness of baseball” just kind of sank in. It’s not about the statistics and varying shades of players on the field or what lands they call home. It is about the history of the game that has cut and woven through this fabric or our time. It is also about the communities from which the present game has evolved, and what the future of baseball looks like.
A microcosm of society in many ways of how this sport got here.
For Americans, IMO, it is the perfect game.
I thought that I was only person who was permitted to curse;-)
Anyway, this is not going well. Talk to you later.
Say hi to Mother Scott
As kids growing up in our neighborhood we only saw friendship, talent and whose mom baked the best cookies and whose dad had the biggest station wagon. The NFL is seemingly the most (cough) popular sport among certain age groups but the person who dubbed Baseball as America’s Pastime was correct. My dad and his three brothers were such die hard baseball fans that my dad told my teacher – Sister Helen Angela – that “my son had some important business to attend to”. Even with that bad fib, my pops made it to Heaven.
My first game was Tuesday, April 15, 1958 at Seals Stadium. There were 23,448 fans in the stands and the game only took 2 hours and 29 minutes. There were several of “all kinds of people” in the lineup. Black, White or Brown only matter to disciples of Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis.
Heck Jackie Robinson wasn’t even the best Negro player at the time that he came up but he was THE best Negro player who was ready to handle all the insane mess.
Some of the players in that first game I attended were African American, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands,
Gino Cimoli CF
Pee Wee Reese SS
Duke Snider LF
Gil Hodges 1B
* Charlie Neal 2B
Dick Gray 3B
Carl Furillo RF
Rube Walker C
* John Roseboro PR-C
Don Drysdale P
Don Bessent P
Norm Larker PH
Ron Negray P
* Jim Gilliam PH
Jim Davenport 3B
Jim King LF
* Willie Mays CF
* Willie Kirkland RF (had a RHanded Hose/batted LH)
** Orlando Cepeda 1B
Daryl Spencer SS
Danny O’Connell 2B
* Valmy Thomas C
*Ruben Gomez P
The Pro Athletes born in Oakland, (even those who were not baseball players) consider reestablishing baseball in the Inner Community a Priority. If anybody ever went to the RBI workshop at University of San Francisco they would have met Frank Robinson, Bill Russell, Joe Morgan, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, Brian Shaw, Vada Pinson’s relatives, Ricky Henderson, Curt Floods relatives, Marshawn Lynch, Dave Stewart and Dontrelle Willis who showed up for the first annual “Reviving Baseball in Inner” Cities.
https://www.facebook.com/SanFranciscoRBI/
http://sfrbi.org/2016/04/san-francisco-rbi-announces-seven-figure-legacy-grants/
Pro baseball takes their RBI commitment seriously. When you here Frank Robinson or Joe Morgan speak about the matter – you can feel the passion.
http://web.mlbcommunity.org/index.jsp?content=programs&program=rbi
Many kids for decades have by their own accord turned to Basketball due to the AAU intervention and the fact that David Stearn grew the NBA expeditiously to Global proportions.
If every one of us thought back to what helped us understand race in more broad and open terms, it was and is sports.
I certainly know it was for me.
Yep. Me too.
Amazing story thanks Clutch!
One of my buddies is part of the Together We’re Giant Grounds Crew. In the last 16 years several concerts have fried the fannies of certain Giants Outfielders or Infielders. None more outspoken than Jeff Kent when he played here. The TWGGC do some magnificent things after concerts ruin the grass.
http://sfgiantsphotos.mlblogs.com/2012/04/01/together-were-giant-grounds-crew/
http://m.mlb.com/sf/video/topic/7969910/v30142981/together-were-giant-defining-moments
Your alternative content for the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h-kLMQzSb8
I saw a Redd Foxx “blue light special” at the Circle Star in San Carlos. Several rows were squirming in their seats, most of us where in hysterics.
The Circle Star – there’s a blast from the past. My parents took me to my first concert there – Sha Na Na, in the round 😛
Bad management decision to tear down the Circle Star. It was small and intimate and could have functioned in todays market. I am trying to remember who I did NOT see there? Streisand and Elvis did not come there …
Here’s a few more photos to bookmark
I had this older GF for a brief time before I got married. She got me to take her to see Sinatra at the Circle Star. I grew up just a few miles from there but that was my only visit.
Everyone should have that one time older girlfriend experience….
#Priceless
Oh it was great, I caught her red handed in the sack with this older guy who made a lot more money than I did. It did have a silver lining though, I met Mrs PS35 right after that.😊
So did you actually live closer to Sequoia HS or to Burton Park in SC?
Neither – in Belmont near the SC border.
Remember the Devonshire market off of Alameda? Bonds grew up on Arguello.
Don’t remember that store. My buddy lived on Lynhurst (sp?) on top of the hill at the Belmont-SC line and was good friends with Ricky so I met him but I don’t remember Bonds (at least not till playing against him in HS) other than they would refer to him as “BB.”
Saw a few shows there myself!
The Silent treatment to Buster ?
Vintage Instigator Nuschler Will Clark
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/29387502/v1170719483/?c_id=mlb
Great post Greek, I’d love to have a long conversation over, but feel posts just don’t make conversation justice (to easy for people to misconstrue an argument, opinion, idea.
I will say that I think baseball has to change with the times. I’m not advocating a complete flip as the NBA and the NFL have had to for numerous reasons, but because it loves money and the very fact the majority of it’s fans are older and primarily white. Business will dictate that baseball “acculturate” with the times, Baseball will change as some of it;s biggest stars are young players like Harper, Machado, Betts, guys who can be successful, and blend personal style with “playing the game right”.
And for the older folks that just complain about everything and bitch about younger players disrespecting the game, well turn the channel and go watch Downtown Abbey.
I agree that baseball can be far too fuddy-duddy-ish. I think “unwritten rules” are stupid.
I still think the underrepresentation of U.S.-based minorities in baseball is primarily economics. American kids who get drafted high and/or get good college offers usually have lots of advantages–travel ball and camps and showcases and special coaches. Talented kids who don’t have those resources don’t have the same opportunities to develop and be seen and scouted.
that’s all obvious and has been discussed ad nauseum.
It’s very similar to the control of American soccer by the white suburbs, where the inner city Latin, African American (any under represented group) doesn’t have access to travel teams that feed into the bigger schools.
The problem is that no one is providing an answer. When places like NYC close parks to build more high rises, well you get the drift.
Baseball requires fields, equipment, coaching, school programs, things most kids from underprivileged families have no access to.
To me RBI is a bullshit program, a bandaid, that MLB and the teams can utilize to look good and feel good about themselves, but does not do enough to make changes.
Have you been to any of the RBI seminars?
I know enough to make an educated assessment of the program through research of it’s breadth, funding and areas of activity.
It’s jut not enough and anyone with any intelligence will tell you that.
Even if you have attended a seminar it’s doesn’t mean your more exposed or understand the big picture. I give you a cookie for gong to a seminar though.
What inner city baseball really needs is something like what basketball has with AAU. Sponsored by the big brands like Nike, UA, Adidas, bring excitement and “cool” to the sport. Perhaps that coupled with RBI can begin to make a dent, along with shitload of private and public sector funding for fields, coaching and equipment.
I wasn’t arguing – just wanted to know. By the way E – there has been more AAU corruption on the West Coast then any good that you have experience.
Basketball rosters and baseball rosters? Do you see relevance?
of course it’s easier to field a basketball team and I’m very aware of corruption that has occurred in the AAU level.
But that is another argument. Still AAU and the big brands provide inner city kids the ability to be part of huge travel squads that get them exposure to the larger schools. The win is it gets kids into universities were without the AAU exposure, it can be a hard battle to win.
If you had Nike alone get behind an inner city baseball program, it will attract more kids who want to be part of the brand.
The other criticism I have with RBI is the age it targets which is 13 and above. That is way too late to get some of the kids excited, specially if they have been playing playground basketball and pop warner football already. At 13 it’s an uphill battle to develop fundamentals. No wonder the other sports win out.
The Downton Abbey comment is hilarious.
Okay, two of the best characters are Lady Sybil who married down in class with Tom, the Irish chauffeur and Lady Rose who did not see color and followed her heart and the jazz singer.
I ended up thinking Slimy Thomas was the most interesting character.
In 1948 and 49 I played on integrated ball teams when I was in the Air Force stationed in northern Florida. The Air Force was totally segregated at the time but our group had one white squadron and two black squadrons so the group team was integrated. Nothing special to report except we all got along well.
A year later I became a token integratee when I was the only white in an all black barrack on Guam, but that’s another story.
This was one of the best things I’d read in a long time:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-university-of-chicago-safe-spaces-letter-met-20160825-story.html
As a professor, I’m in the middle on this one. I do think the whole trigger warnings/safe spaces thing on campus goes way, way too far. I just finished my mandatory Title IX training (I have to do it every two years), and there’s a whole unit on “microaggressions.” I don’t deny they exist. But so much handwringing over small and usually unintended slights. Grow up, kids. The world is not always nice or fair. No wonder we have a whole generation of young adults who can’t cope with anything negative.
On the other hand, there are, sadly, a lot of kids who’ve had difficult experiences–really bad stuff. If a trigger warning about a reading or discussion or film that touches on rape or incest or domestic violence can fend off a PTSD or panic episode…well, that’s just being humane and promoting an environment where learning can happen.
So I think my wishy-washy view is that some trigger warnings are appropriate and kind and some are just stupid.
What troubles me about this ‘stuff’ is that it seems to factor out human judgement in place of some set of rules in the place of that judgement.
Unfortunately, in a litigious society, institutions adopt sets of rules to keep from getting sued because someone’s “human judgment” (or “common sense”) rubbed someone else the wrong way.
Sort of like Kawakami blocking 60% of his twitter followers?
It’s silly in the end, because the ‘rules’ approach denies the conversation that ultimate reconciles the issue in conflict. I retract silly, on second thought, let’s use moronic.
I wonder what Aristotle would have thought of these trigger warnings, while teaching walking under the colonnades of Athens.
THERE is Italian Giant Fan – BRAVO
Life is full of problems. The rest of the world isn’t required to bend over backwards to help me deal with mine.
Well put, realistic.
No, but some professors could exercise better judgment. Do you really have to show an explicit rape scene in your film class or have students read it in your literature class? There are lots of other films and lots of other works of literature. On the other hand, if it’s a psychology class on sexuality and dealing with issues like rape or sexual orientation is a legitimate and necessary part of the content, then professors shouldn’t have to curate that for students. Students don’t have to take that class if it’s going to be too upsetting to them.
Yep, and if blood scares you, you can’t become a surgeon.
Right. If it’s a necessary part of the curriculum, you have to teach it, even if it’s upsetting.
This is a much smaller issue, but I’ve many times taught an intro to linguistics course that, among other things, discusses nonstandard varieties of American English and how they differ, structurally, from standard American English. It is a descriptive topic, not a judgmental one. Several times I’ve had students complain that that talking about these dialects is racially insensitive, like it was rude to even mention that they exist. Nope, and it’s a legitimate part of the course content.
Most colleges that do it are too ashamed to admit that they discourage conservative speakers. It’s too un-American.
You mean conservative as in being able to shoot undesirables on sight? THAT kind of conservative?
Is that your definition of conservatives?
it was yours, Walter, own it.
I mentioned neither liberal or conservative in my proposal. Just a way to deal with criminal organizations You made no counter proposal at the time. I was hoping to open a discussion, didn’t happen.
“Just a way to deal with criminal organizations”
Yeah, anybody could shoot alleged gang members on sight.
I was a freshman in college, after 9/11 and before the run up to war in Iraq. While the rest of the country was going rah rah insane, it was college campuses that we’re saying the things the rest of the public needed a trigger warning for. Things definitely change.
I feel like social media is a big part of this too. I feel lucky in that I got through most of my formative years before things like Facebook, Twitter, etc. meant that you can live every minute of your life in a echo chamber, only hearing/watching/listening to things that correspond 100% to your world view.
Has anyone here been injured today by having to read an opposing view? I didn’t think so.
Do frontal lobe cramps count?
I’m sure you are kidding.
I think GG needs to post trigger warnings. (Kidding!)
So should Bochy, if he’s going to use Casilla in the 9th again.
It would start my 5th heart attack. NO, thank you.
I may need trigger warnings to listen to Krukow talk about Casilla. That was unbelievable last night.
Yeah, I watched the game late night after reading on here about that so I slowed down in the 8th inning to hear it all. That was an all time classic spin job. Spin Gems? The humidity aspect was pretty amazing.
Well, you know, climate change–it explains everything.
If you think Casilla is bad now you should see him pitch in South America.
More nauseating is his romance with CG.
😡😡😡
What’s wrong with complete games chef?
I meant Conor.
Oh i know i was just plyn
I was at the game last night. When Casilla came in most of the crowd left. Its a comment on the score or not wanting to watch another train wreck.
He will.
Off topic, but #10 Louisville is beating #2 Florida State 56-10 right now in the 4th. That’s pretty crazy.
Haven’t seen any scores today because I’m too consumed with watching my Tennessee Volunteers not pull away from the talented and stubborn Ohio Bobcats. Gonna have to play a lit better than this if we’re to contend in the SEC.
Adam Duvall played baseball at Louisville. So did Chris Dominguez. Buster Posey = Florida State.
Little known facts.
I knew these facts. You’re gonna have to do better.
Pass the beer nuts.
Will do. You pass me the pork roinds.
Don’t 4get the Louisiana hot sauce.
I call my bro that ” 🍺 nuts” because of his propensity for consuming Pabst at a all time rate since 1983
Duvall- post All-Star Break:
190 AB 7 HR 28 RBI .728 OPS .228 BA
September – going going GONE!!
I thought the kid had made a turn toward adjusting lately, but the struggle continues it seems.
It seems to me that he’s run out of juice.
20 of his HRs came May & June. Big Power Stick then.
If more African American kids were to start playing baseball and concentrate less on basketball and football i truly believe that mlb would be predominantly a black sport now. The Brandon Crawfords of the world may not even be around to enjoy their success .
And why do you think that would be the case Slikk?
I’ll let you figure it out.
If more African American kids played baseball, there would be more in MLB, of that I have no doubt. But to say the “Brandon Crawfords of the world” wouldn’t be enjoying success is both wrong and insulting to his talent level. C’mon, Slikk.
Crawfords a nice player but if there were more of “us” playing the grand ol sport of baseball a lot of the players you see now would not make it onto the playing field. Not all of them but quite a few.
Slikk, you’re talking about possibly the best defensive shortstop in baseball, certainly one of the best the Giants have had. He’s also maybe the best clutch hitter on the team. To just pass him off as a “nice” player and insinuate African Americans possess a natural talent level white players can’t compete with is way too much of a stretch.
Did i say Craws would be replaced sir? No i did not. Craws a nice player not great but nice. Nvr sd he’d be the one replaced hell i love Craws.
Ok… Well, I love ya and not trying to be combative, but this all started by you saying the Brandon Crawfords of the world might not even be around.
A lot of them wouldnt imo.Look at the NBA i mean wow.
Come on, Slikk. That’s inaccurate and inflammatory IMHO.
I disagree
Hahahaha. Well, who can argue that?
Lol
In the 1930s and 1940s, basketball was dominated by Jewish players, I’ve read. The same sort of stereotypical nonsense was dreamed up to explain that. Words like sneaky, deceptive, and cunning were used to explain it. That wasn’t true and, IMO, your take on it isn’t either.
It’s good bar room chatter for the infamous Old Dock of the Bay in Emeryville but let us just say: The BEST at every position are the BEST at every position historically.
Jackie Robinson was the correct person to come up and break the barrier because Mr. Rickey had faith that Jackie would be able to maintain. There was one maybe to other GREAT Negro League players that had more actual raw skill than Jackie. Do you know who that would be?
-Moses Fleetwood Walker?
-William Edward White?
-Willard “Home Run” Brown ?
-Larry Doby ?
*** Throughout his career, Jackie Robinson was a fearless competitor. As Leo Durocher, first his manager and later an archrival, so elegantly phrased it, “You want a guy that comes to play. But (Robinson) didn’t just come to play. He came to beat you. He came to stuff the damn bat right up your ass.” **
** He received death threats when the club visited Cincinnati, but, in an oft-told but undocumented story, Dodgers shortstop Pee Wee Reese, a native son of Kentucky, draped an arm over the shoulders of the nervous rookie infielder in a courageous public show of support. Later, a threatened strike by the St. Louis Cardinals was short-circuited by a show of force by league president Ford Frick.**
Nicr
When Brandon Crawford was drafted out of UCLA, for some reason, I had a mental image in my mind that he was A.A. Without ever seeing a picture of Crawford, I kept that mental image for probably at least a year. Then one day, to my surprise, he looked nothing like I how thought he looked.
Now JP Crawford, in the Phillies org, and emerging in MLB next year is AA – and is one of the best SS prospects in baseball. I won’t lie, I root for the success of African American prospects. I hope that doesn’t make me a reverse racist or something like that.
I know I’m a reverse racist cuz I think Cool Runnings is the best movie ever made.
My transistor radio – way past my parents lights out notice…. Lon Simmons must have interviewed Jack Clark several times when he was 17 – 18 – 19 from the minors in Great Falls, Fresno, Lafayette and Phoenix and then of course MANY times when he came up once at the age of 19 and then again at 20 to stay. I was sure the Ripper was Black and when I finally saw his BB card – I was apparently disappointed 🙂
Lol the name Brandon Crawford does make you think its a bro .
Talent rises to the top. Lets not get completely carried away. Would you have rather seen Redd Foxx cracking one liners in Vegas or turning the double play?
Lol nice
Listen guys all im saying is that if AA started playing baseball and pretty much stopped focusing on basketball and football there would be several white players who are currently in starting positions on a baseball field that would not be playing as much. Its my opinion and you all hv yours.
I don’t think anyone could argue that, but that’s not what you seemed to imply/state.
I believe you are correct, sir.
Lewis Brinson, whom the Brewers acquired in the Jonathan Lucroy deal, is a very legit prospect. Should hear of him making some MLB noise next year.
I think we all can agree that we need us some more Ozzie at short stop.
Yes hell I’ll even take Gary Templeton or UL Washington!
not for the SF ball club though
You could be right abt that i dont know
oops, i meant to respond to cabbie’s post under this. sorry..
You devil you. Bought any news shoes lately?
Stacy Adams last week in cognac ! The color cognac!
Sweeeeeet!
Yeah they’re sharp as a tack
Thanks Lefty for the heads up about this site.
Glad you made it!
Welcome, indeed.
Giants 2-0 since the site went up. If the G-Men go undefeated the rest of the year, GG will never have to pay for a drink again, in this lifetime or the next.
Damn, we may all have to read Robert Steiner.
A friend of mine said I had to go every game now and not shower or change clothes. I replied my record this year is good not perfect.
Let’s make a list:
–the new blog
–no batting practice
–Pagan leading off
–Greg Papa on the TV call
–Jeremy Affeldt on the radio call
Don’t change ANYTHING.
Except Aflac on the radio, change him yesterday.
Yes, sadly he’s not very good. I thought he would be.
Does no homework, had no idea Current Cards CF was a power hitter , thought he was a speed guy ,even though he was always a power guy, and was never much of a speed guy, you would think as a pitcher he would know the hitters he faced .
Agreed but he is STELLAR on Comcast TV which means he could get better
He’s pretty good on tv i agree.
Panik batting 2nd
Yes to this!
Well Flemming is doing NCAA Football – so he will be back
Hall of Famer Miller is due back asap
Papa has the Raider Contract to do
* Affeldt needs to keep his mute button ON until AFTER Kuiper is finished with the call
* Pagan leading off is the Cats Meow
* No batting practice will continue until “they don’t” or they go on the road.
So YES – it will be Same old Same old someday.
You’re my kind of guy. Nice posts man.
I really wish I hadn’t started wearing this thong two days ago…
You and Aubrey both
Sometimes it takes a banana hammock to turn things around.
That invention was the precursor of the so called “penis-envy”.
Hand wash that mf now!
……in some boiling hot water ….
With 2 tbl spoons of ACV just for good measure ya dig!
My female friend wont wear em says she likes the feel of her cheeks gathered in regular undies and im not kidding
It’s posts like this that keep us all on the edge of our seat, Slikk.
Hey i wasn’t even thinking about ” thongs” until i saw your posts. You’re the instigator and im tellin dad!
No lie a beautiful 43 yr old mixed with Caucasian and black about 5’8 125. Fine as hell yes lord!
Sounds a lot like Pam Grier – or Teresa Graves in Get Christie Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zirg6R9Ia2Y
No this chick is pretty hot in a tomboy type of fashion. Very fimenine and all but at times she tends to forget.
What about under garments?
Papa?
Span batting 8th.
Prosciutto.
Hahaha!
Can the DH be used just for Pagan?
I’m holding you to that Rob!
If it allows us to drink in another life, I’m completely on board.
The Giant Nut
tis the season for me. Harvest began and I was working early this morning.
happy harvest! may the nuts be clean and heavy.
@AlexPavlovic mused: Is it possible this entire second half was just a ploy to permanently get rid of batting practice?
@AlexPavlovic – Moore said it meant a lot that Bochy came to check, trusted him to get final out.
Said he’s never had a manager visit mound and not pull him
@extrabaggs
No BP for the Giants tomorrow. So you won’t see The Cage on the field.
Uh, actually Baggs, the other team usually hits also?!!
It was good to back to the park last night. My last game attended was the Sunday Casilla gave up the HR in the 9th. I sold all my tickets between then and last night. But it was mostly about fighting the traffic, night games are tough as we can’t get away early. As usual an accident this time in Stockton delayed us about 45 minutes and we missed first pitch.
Also some fan ran onto the field and the security person who tackled him had his leg broken.
Saw that. Thought, in addition to spending the night in jail, that fan should have to provide some kind of compensation for the guard.
I’m not saying this as an excuse for the fan, but there was a bit of strangeness in our corner of the field where they took him off. I think his parents were there an had alerted the security. This guy may not have been all there.
Didn’t two fans run on the field?
I missed the second one, but there was a group something in the corner where they escorted a couple off. But they had to come out of the gate in the right field corner. Again I think it was the guys parents.
Let’s get another win today.
You’re a goddamn idea man.
Good night to you all. Go Giants !
Glad you’re ok, brother.
Thx.
Ciao
σας δούμε σύντομα
You too.
Take good care
Take care of all your Arteries Sir!
Sweet dreams Amigo! Vamos Gigantes!!
(My Dad’s favorite, Don Gibson:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXpaGmZSFaY
Looking down at the town of Vernazza from the castle,
Have a good weekend and Go Giants. Back to work.
Chan culture, and Pepe the Frog. It’s not enough fungus is eating the poor amphibian’s toes off, now they steal his identity.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/09/how-internet-trolls-won-the-2016-presidential-election.html
did you read that Extinction book by Elizabeth Kolbert?
No, I haven’t. But I knew Jim Lovelock, slightly and one of his students was a graduate advisor of mine. Any points there for me?
just thinking about fungus killing off amphibians – spores travel glove, amphibians not adapted, not good results.
globe
With climate change, I don’t see how amphibians survive. Sad world with no tadpoles. Lovelock authored the Gaia hypothesis, and with Wayne Wentworth, Al Zalatkis, Jim Fenimore pretty much invented electron capture detection in gas chromatography.
degrom out for year, could need TJ. is that new, or old news?
sad news. like that guy’s game, big time.
I like how he wears a small de Grom
Took the words out of my mouth
love him. when he’s good, he’s as good as any of them.
my preseason CY pick.
Now I lean Hendricks.
NOT Tommy John Surgery, Alderson said surgery, but not a significant surgery .
Ok, that’s better news.
Man, Peter …. ” surgery” on a pitching arm is ALWAYS significant
especially when they talk about the ulnar nerve
Yeah, ulnar nerve surgery is not TJ, but it is most definitely significant, and will likely open the door for more problems down the line.
Amen
Oh My said Dick Enberg…. I know way too much about Ulnar Nerve damage…
not an easy fix?
Ulnar nerve damage comes from young growth plates being overused before they are done growing but the biggest culprit is overuse to the max.
My players who have any ulnar nerve reaction say the burning and sharp knife feeling makes them want to put everything down and just go away.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/last-years-world-series-didnt-wreck-the-mets-rotation-this-year/
Hard to say but their reputation is preceding them
http://www.topvelocity.net/mets-ruining-pitchers-with-the-balance-drill/
The Babe and Tony Gwynn Fan club thought they lost Don Zimmer and looked all over for him on other cloud sites. Found him here. Thank “God” Zim was drinking with the same group who last went to Finnerty’s and exacerbated the extended road trip troubles. That group is on probation.
SL CARDS Pre Game Notes
http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/1/9/2/201866192/91716_Layout_1_z3qfejeh.pdf
Still sifting through the Giants farm system for African American prospects. I remembered that they drafted Jason Heyward’s brother out of U of Miami in the 16th round. 21 y.o. Heyward hit very well in rookie league and had 17 plate appearances with Class A Salem. He was 4 for 14 with 3 BB and 3 K. Maybe his genes kick in and he becomes a top prospect.
Jalen Miller, Heyward, and I’ll find some other names deeper in the farm.
Cee Lo’s back on the Gint’s band wagon but says about “Bases on Balls”….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yxoob6aPtk
This Date in Giants History: September 17, 1997
The Giants beat the Dodgers 2-1 to move a game behind the Los Angeles-NL in the National League West…Barry Bonds hit a two-run homer and Kirk Rueter allowed just one run in 7.0 innings of work for the win.
Tonights Giants Pre Game Notes for 9/17
http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/3/8/2/201886382/9.17.16_vs._STL_19ltymoh.pdf
Funny stuff- Papa trying to understand what shingles is:
” Is it kind of a rash?|”
Yeah Greg, kind of.
Like when he cut in on Amy G’s – Durant message last night – Papa in a Raider gravely voice touchdown call…..”I can’t believe the got Durantula”
His Raiders TD call makes me yearn for Dick Vitale.
Papa’s getn older, as you age you tend to care less abt what u say
The usual suspects.
For those watching Span go into second base on Molina’s throwing error, slide into the bag and pop up and try to head for third but SL’s Diaz ran into him or vice versa.
If Span continues to third and is thrown out but 40 feet – he would have been award third base. That is what the umpire was doing when he pointed one hand to the sky and pointed to the second base bag with the other.
There was “level” 1 Obstruction on Diaz. The “Defense Obstructs the Offense” and when it happens the other way the “Offense interferes with the Defense”
i’m glad you brought that up. i was watching that with my wife, and the second it happened i yelled obstruction!! then i couldn’t believe that bochy didn’t argue. so you’re saying that if he doesn’t try to make it to 3rd, they don’t award him the base?
Correct. It happened on one of my summer teams with my runner from second rounding third base and he and the thirdbaseman both tumbled to the ground in a lump.
Everybody is yelling Hey Hey Hey. So I calmly go out there. Big Rec in GG Park and the umpire nicely explained it to me. And that got me curious in the entire rule.
Judgement plays a huge factor in the umpires ruling. Had Diaz sat on top of him and Denard made an attempt to get up – it may have been “Type 2 Obstruction” and he may have been auto’d sent to third base.
A new location for all your Giants coverage –
Posted on September 15, 2016 by Mercury News Editor
3 Comments = LOL
Was one of those a link to this page?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Sandy Alderson was interviewed regarding overall pitching health in the organization. Apparently, 2 young men are facing amputation, but Sandy didn’t think it was significant, pointing to the scouting reports of their ambidexterity.
(My attempt to match TO sarcasm…..how’d I do?)
imagine if you had a son that was a stud pitcher, and the mets drafted him? can you still go to canada to avoid the draft?
John Elway and one other out of college draftee told those that drafted him to please take a long walk off of a short pier.
By the way when Goldy hit his SAC FLY last night – most thought he had gotten all of it.
You ought to find that Nolan Ryan quote about surviving the Mets organization.
Wanted to let you know I appreciate your approach here. I know there are many thing we view differently, but you have always been informative ( and civil)
Over politics, reasonable people can disagree without rancor. I had similar question to you about Clinton, and spent a long time researching what the facts of those issues were. I came away convinced, she played hardball, made mistakes, was very smart, politically shrewd, and married a scum bag.
As to Ryan, when he was testing the waters with the Mets he had the reputation with the NY media of being ‘brittle and injury prone’. He apparently left that tendency in NY when he left for the Angels. It was such a prevalent belief, that the NY media felt it was a wiser trade than many thought at the time because of his brittleness and lack of long term prospects. Go figure, although I did check to see if among the sports writers there was a Baggarly…none were in evidence.
GIANTS ON THIS HOMESTAND – VERSUS SAN DIEGO & ST. LOUIS
Games …………………. 5
Record ……………….. 2-3
Average ………. .248 (40×161)
Avg. w/RISP ………..237 (9×38)
Runs Per Game ………. 3.8 (11)
Home Runs ……………… 4
Stolen Bases …………….. 1
ERA ………..3.40 (17er, 45.0ip)
Starters W-L ……………. 2-2
Starters ERA …. 3.41 (12er, 31.2ip)
Relievers W-L …………… 0-1
Relievers ERA .. 3.38 (5er, 13.1ip)
Saves/Chances ………….. 0/1
TONIGHT’S GAME: The Giants have won the first two games of this four-game series against the
Cardinals and are now 2-3 on this seven-game homestand.
IN THE STANDINGS: The Giants (79-68) currently trail the Los Angeles Dodgers (82-63) by 4.0 games
in the National League West…San Francisco enters tonight leading the New York Mets (78-69) by one
game and the Cardinals (76-71) by three in the race for the two National League wild-card spots.
ON THE MOUND: RHP Jeff Samardzija enters tonight’s game having pitched well over his last
seven starts, posting a 2-2 record and a 2.95 ERA (14er, 42.2ip)…he is slated to make his second start of the season against the Cardinals, as he took the loss on June 4 at Busch Stadium after surrendering six
runs in 5.0 innings of work
Watching a little SEC football. There are 7 Joe West’s in the stripes
Holy Shiekees: 63-20 FSU losing
A little further north: Tight game for Harbs today so far
‘Bama/Ole Miss?
Yup…Saban has a spell on them
Lineups (still starts with the four Ps’):
But Mac, Parker, and KT aren’t in it.
Nor EA, but this one has worked well the last two evenings.
I was channeling the “play the kids” people.
I heard a big WOOSH go over 610 🙂
I’m wondering what Mac did to piss off Bochy. Hasn’t started a game since he’s been back.
Heard Mac forgot his toothbrush and Murph told him to “just use Bochy’s”
The rest is history.
He isn’t the plans for the postseason.
I’m sure he isn’t. We’ll be good with our four 30+ OF, one of whom has been injured for at least two months.
Mac will be a ___________ next year and hit 40 bombs by the AS break
Conor used to be one of those who “got away.” Now please, just go away. And don’t forget your teeth.
He must have had cosmetic surgery to get that grizzly old vet look. They must forgotten the balls cuz he’s always looking for them.
I like Mac. Thought he’d be the regular LFer by the All-Star break.I’m just stating the obvious.
those guys need to stay sharp any way they can.. their days of playing are now the occasional pinch hitting role.
Correct. As I said below, i was just channeling the “play the kids” people.
(My best Bruce Bochy voice)…”same soup”
Efrain’s great city opens up this Trip. The Greek Giant Golden Gate Bridge is near the end. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/KcuDdPo0WZk
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/pregame/game-148-preview-giants-on-the-cusp-of-a-winning-homestand-take-on-the-cardinals-at-willie-mays-field/
Thanks. Sorry if I ruined this one
Palmolive Soap Matty Ice
There’s none left…Chef used it all up
The blog owner wrote a piece on race and politics in a baseball blog. The results were predictable. I have asked him to stop writing these types of pieces here.
Thanks, Surf.
Yeah, nice going Matt.
Hi Greek:
I have to say a few things about this piece that you probably don’t want to hear. So I think you in advance for your indulgence.
I have to strenuously disagree with you on Kaepernick: Kaepernick did not disrespect the flag or his teammates, in my opinion. To me, it’s powerful people who start wars for profit and who wrap themselves in the flag that disrespect it and disrespect the troops. Those same powerful people try to hide behind veterans and try to use the concept of respecting veterans ( a worthy concept) to justify their criminal wars. Respecting the troops also means not sending them out to fight unnecessary wars. Also disrespecting the flag are police officers and forces who unfairly use their positions of power granted by the state that flies that flag, to discriminate, beat and kill. This isexactly what Kaepernik is protesting against.
I also have to say that a piece that focuses on the “stylistic”
contributions of African Americans in the way games are celebrated can
frankly be seen as in poor taste by many, in that ignores the much bigger issues of race in society and in baseball’s past, and does a disservice to African Americans, as does referring to African Americans and Caribbean players as “flamboyant.” There is so much more than “celebrating”, “baggy pants”, and “jewelry” that African Americans contribute, and I find it frankly rather simplistic to hold those things up as major contributions from African Americans.
Also, this piece seems to champions player “knowing their place in history”
and “paying homage to their forebears” without mentioning Jackie
Robinson and that African Americans for years and years were excluded
from professional baseball.
One last reaction: I hope you will
stop using this forum as a means to express your political views in the
main stories. As blog owner, you naturally have a louder microphone than
anyone else here and your stories will set the tone for what kind of
blog this is. Politics is not what the vast majority of us are here for.
The owner of a site naturally is able to decide what they want to write
their stories about. But you have represented this as a baseball blog,
and I hope that you will turn back to making it about baseball.
Thanks very much for listening.
Hi SurfCity. Thanks for your thoughtful and impassioned response. Let me answer with a few thoughts: First, I never claimed jewelry and baggy pants were the only attributes, good or bad, related to African American culture in baseball. In fact, the article was not about African American contributions to the game. The focus was on how different cultures perceive the conservative values and codes of baseball.
Second, Style has nothing to do with my piece really. I would love to write about great African American players and their styles, their contributions to the history of the game and their role in today’s game. I am a huge, huge, huge love or African American ballplayers like Adam Jones, Torii Hunter, Curtis Granderson and many others. In fact, when I rank my favorite top 20 ballplayers I dare say at least 10-15 will be black Americans. Number 1 is Willie Mays.
Finally, This blog is not a platform for my political views and I did not intend the article to be perceived as an expression of such but sometimes viewpoints come out, particularly with regards to certain issues around the Kaepernick saga and such. I agree with you 100% on false patriotism and the bogus worship of the flag as a justification for sending innocent young men and women to die needlessly in wars. We can disagree with the exact act and timing of Kaep’s protest but I think we would agree on the issues he advocates.
I shared this artical with my lady friend who is a giants fan because I am.. she had no idea that there was a, (how do I say it) shortage of Africian-Americans in baseball and found this post and comments very interesting..
Glad to hear it!
I am sorry to tell you this but exploitation based on the concept of race is not only the sin of white Europeans.
Its fine what Kapernick is doing but do you think he would be doing it in Denver if the trade had gone through? Or if he wasn’t also frustrated with his career on the rocks? Doubtful.
A person who makes 200x anual salary of the highest paid teacher for sitting on the bench I dont feel is a good flag bearer for this issue of social conscience.
I have respect for him as an athlete but not as a voice for activism.