by
GreekGiant
We all need a group hug after that game. Leading 2-1 going into the 9th, the Giants were looking to win their third in a row and keep pace with the New York Mets for the top Wild Card position, and, if you want to get really ambitious, keep pace with the Dodgers who beat the Arizona baseballers again.. Our poor bullpen. At this stage, there is no reason for me to list the blown saves, to document the leads and games the Giants bullpen has blown this year.
Surely we are leading the world of baseball in leads lost, games coughed up, and broken hearts.
Jeff Samardzija pitched 6 2/3 innings allowing only one run on five hits. He was very good. After three innings in which the Cardinal leadoff hitter reached base each time, Smarge took control and found his command. His fastball was lively and his changeup was devastating. Mike Leake junk-balled the Giants to death. If I am an opposing scout analyzing the Giants for a potential postseason matchup this is what I tell my pitching staff: Keep throwing off-speed stuff in any pitch in the count. Throw 75% curve/slider/changeup/whatever and 25% fastballs.
I have come to the conclusion that the Giants are an obvious fastball hitting team. Leake was tough and the Giants, though running into some bad luck with hard hit balls, went down meekly more often than not against their former teammate. Joe Panik is scuffling. Brandon Crawford’s bat has cooled (though his glove is still golden) and the Giants hitters simply could not get enough runs across to give the pen a cushion.
Santiago Casilla had another difficult outing. Let’s give him a hug too…. It now seems likely he will not be re-signed and the Giants front office must look for a frontline closer this offseason. It is still fashionable in baseball analytics to say the closer is an over-rated concept. But after so many blown saves, I am sure the Giants fans would now disagree.
Let’s look forward to tomorrow… Let’s forget about this game and lost opportunities quickly!
Oh crap.
The only hug I hope casilla gets is from a boa constrictor
oh heck, it’s up to my neck!
I’m actually less & less pissed at Casilla as time goes on. I’m sure he’s lost a ton of confidence & deep down would probably welcome being a setup guy again. But Bruce Bochy……GAWD. I’m stupefied at that guy.
Exactly.
Casilla was put in a perfect situation last night.
Bochy should keep using him there. 7th, 8th. Just like he used to do when Romo was the closer.
I blame the manager for putting him into a bad, unfamiliar and tense situation given the past two months…what on earth told him it was the right move? Sabermetrics???
Great article. As they all are.
Thankfully, the Giants face a gas throwing rookie tomorrow – so no need to worry about craftiness. They dig these kinds of pitchers. And you have to imagine Reyes will be on a low end pitch count, so think about getting him out early into the middle of the pen.
Tell us what you think of the 9th inning managers moves.
I just got home … Are you effing kidding me? Did Casilla blow another one?
No. BOCHY blew another one. Big difference.
Sooooo preventable yet again. It just boggles the mind.
It actually makes perfect sense, in light of the lunacy.
Yes. Why yes he did.
Put Concede-a-lead otherwise known as Blown Saves Leader Santiago Casilla on the 60 DL with a sprained brain. Might be the only way to save Bochy from himself…
No, actually I think he’d still be an effective setup guy. Boch is the guy with a brain sprain. He needs to put ice on it. Get the swelling down.
My God … what is Bochy doing? Why isn’t Nathan closing games? This is just border line on absurd. WTF is going on??? This is getting close to firing territory for Bochy for me.
Andrew Baggarly @extrabaggs 1m1 minute ago
Romo showed up Bochy by laughing like a hyena as he handed over ball. His only saving grace is that he was right. He should have stayed in.
Baseball showed up Bochy by revealing what a huge idiot he was for sticking Casilla into the 9th inning.
I wonder if his reaction was because he was replaced or because he was replaced by Casilla. The latter I can understand (and no it shouldn’t happen) but look at all of our reaction. The players must feel the same. You laugh to not cry.
Good for Romo. It’s about time somebody says the emperor has no clothes.
If any hit was luck it was the one against Romo because the guy made an off balance swing and hit it off the tail end of his back without his legs in the swing. I have a feeling that Romo’s reaction is widely shared at this point.
Well, I don’t agree with that. I’m sick, sick, sick about the decision and results, but a player simply can’t do that. As a professional, you do it in private. Regardless.
OK, well the emporer has shed some clothes then, lol
Why is it that pitchers like Romo get yanked after allowing one guy to reach base while Casilla is allowed to put multiple guys on base? This theme has been replayed over and over and over again. I’ve seen Romo and Smith get pulled after one base allowed but I cannot recall Casilla getting pulled after one runner is allowed. It’s nonsensical.
Totally agree…though Bochy claims it’s an earned privilege, I see it as blinded loyalty/favoritism.
Casilla had a public tantrum and then went off on Bochy to reporters. Bochy’s rewarded his bad behavior by bending over backwards to avoid offending him or hurting his feelings. Why is what Romo did any worse?
It’s all absurd and it’s well past time somebody spoke some truth about this. Beat writers, players–I wish more of them would do it. This is out of control.
You know I agree with you on the error of Bochy’s ways. Casilla did have to apologize for that showing up thing though. That said, I can hardly blame Romo either.
Part of the problem may stem from last night when they had Romo warm up in the 9th for nothing.
Bochy is killing this team by continuing to put Casilla in these high leverage situations that he is clearly not suited for this year. I simply can’t fathom why he is doing this. At this point it feels like literal sabotage,
Casilla pitched well last night in low pressure situation. Bochy should have just kept bringing him out in the 7th or 8th, or even the 6th and nurse him back to heath gradually.
Casillaholic.
I was on a roll! I was way up! Then I lost it all …
Why did the Front Office buy Smith if he’s only going to be used as a tertiary figure in the bullpen?
Yeah, good question.
Bochy. Why not let Smith own the 8th? He’s strong right now. Then we have Law, Romo and a bunch of other guys not named Casilla if needed.
Yeah, I’m so over hearing “poor Bochy has no other choices.” He has plenty of choices. He just has to decide to use them.
Yup. Poor guy only has 13 relievers. He’s so constricted for choice that he has mental constipation. SMH.
So, is it really true that this is the 27th blown lead after the 7th?
That’s just since the All Star break!
No that is not possible…that would be completely insane…wait this season is 🙁
27th has to be a league leading best I would guess.
if it is true, absolutely. But, can anyone confirm?
The graphic shown during the post game had SF leading the league in blown saves….
“Best”–LOL
28th
Now THAT is the correct number.
I think it may be a Giants franchise record.
No.
On a different note: I just watched NFL Network’s “Curtis Martin: A Football Life.” Must see TV. A wonderful story about a wonderful man.
Here’s who I feel bad for, in order:
–Samardzija: he battled and gave them a chance to win, and the team again gave him very little support (he drove in the go-ahead run himself) and then blew his win.
–Law and Romo: They must both be wondering what they have to do to earn a save opportunity on this team. Law has been one of the top 10 relievers in the league this year. Romo threw the last pitch of the 2012 World Series and was a better closer than Casilla’s been.
–Casilla: I don’t like how he’s comported himself this year and I can’t wait until he’s gone. But Bochy’s being downright cruel to him now.
–Crawford because he has to do Pagan’s job as well as his own.
–the coaching staff because Bochy actually threw them under the bus for the decision to put in Casilla tonight.
–the rest of the guys in the clubhouse because their boss keeps letting them down over and over and over and there’s not a thing they can do.
–the fans in the park, who once again had their money wasted, their night ruined–and then got blamed for the loss by that idiot Mike Krukow.
–us, because as GG put it, we got our hearts broken again.
I am starting to wonder if Bochy is just on a crusade to ruin Casilla after the way he stood him up on the mound earlier in the year. As if Bochy is basically committed to making sure his career ends. Because i’m struggling to come up with other reasons that make sense.
At the cost of a team? No…nobody is that crazy. I just think he has lost his edge as a manager this season…my theory is the fact that he has a staff of yes men below him, and a passive GM “above” him…no one acting as a governor for his tendencies
raggs and wotus don’t strike me as “yes men” but i do wonder if they have gotten themselves into group think ? if anybody disagrees with say using casilla then it is bochy’s job to make it ok for them to speak the hell up, to hear all sides
I like this theory. And like you said, previously, I do think that Sabean and Flannery provided something of a check and balance system that just isn’t there anymore.
I agree about the passive GM–we’ve talked about this before. Sabean was here before Bochy–he hired Bochy. Evans became GM after Bochy was a “Hall of Fame manager.” How are you supposed to tell that guy what to do?
We’re turning into the Angels. They had a good GM but he got pushed around by Scioscia, and he finally had enough and quit.
Sabean is still there and still plays a prominent role. I think the problem might be that he and Bochy are too close.
Also think Sabean is not clocked in as much as he used to be.
He’s got a huge blind spot. He doesn’t trust his other relievers and he keeps stubbornly believing that Casilla’s the best/only choice. It really does boggle the mind.
lefty — once again you nailed it ! very well said and i couldn’t agree more
Pretty incredible that Bochy tried to pass the buck for the Casilla decision. It was a very telling demonstration of a lack of character.
He HAD to say ” I decided it was the right match up”…. Now will his coaches start fraying too? This is baddddddd.
Shinjinarinai.
Here’s what I especially hated about this game:
1) The obvious: that Casilla was anywhere near a save situation
2) That Span killed the best rally of the game with stupid baserunning
3) That Pagan and Span are horrible outfielders and shouldn’t be in the game in the late innings if it’s close
4) That the worst pinch-hitter on the team came up with two on and two out in the ninth and popped up on one pitch.
Casilla…Span…Gillaspie. The Trio of Bochy Stupids this year. This game featured them all.
Yeah, where was Tomlinson. I bet he could have slapped an rbi single in the ninth
I bet he would have at least ground out an AB and not popped up on one pitch.
Casilla, Pagan, Span and Gillaspie are Bochy’s 2016 Core Four. Those four have spent a baffling large amount of time on a baseball field this year.
Pagan’s poor reactions forced Craw to make a circus catch.
I was listening to the radio at the time. Jon Miller just couldn’t believe it. He said Pagan didn’t even try to catch the ball.
On TV they said that if Pagan was going to call him off, he waited too long to do so.
The amazing thing to me is that Craw ended up in mid left field. I mean he was as far from the infield dirt as the mound is from the plate. I imagine Craw was a little incredulous that he wasn’t called off.
Conor is my favorite. I had no doubt he’d come through.
Also, Krukow just needs to hang it up. Tons of great memories, i’ve grown up listening to the guy, but he’s almost unbearable to listen to at this point. It really does bum me out to say that.
He’s truly embarrassing himself with this Casilla stuff. It’s ending a great career with a whimper.
Overheard in the dugout as per Erwin Higueros “Why are you doing this to me, Boch?”
Now it’s up to Albert to get us the series.
Note: Romo’s crap was even worse than Casilla Gate- cackling on his way out, throwing his arms up in a mock celebration . Smarge- what’s new? He’s shown up his teammates AND the Skipper. I thought I’d never say this but Bochy may be losing his team,
And he’s hurting Casilla, not helping him. We saw last night how his teammates feel about about him- they love the guy,
Sure looks that way, Chef. Openly mocking him… and, it’s sad to see what now is happening to Casilla.
This reminds me of the last days of Huff, when Bochy kept sending him out there but Huff just couldn’t do it anymore.
I was radio-only but a friend told me that Romo snickered when removed, and somebody asked on the in-game post why he was laughing in the dugout. I heard that Affeldt ripped Romo in the TV post-game show. Sounds like Bochy may have lost the team. Not good.
Does anyone know what Affeldt said?
Bochy’s decision to pull Romo was sound- Molina had owned Romo. But for Santiago? Not now. Bochy is killing the guy.
Casilla going through the torture Huff suffered when Bochy kept running him out there well past sell-date
I think Romo’s laughter was a public display of what many of the players are thinking.
If the over/under on you saying this is 1,000,000, I’ll take the over.
I’m not sure what that means, but I’m absolutely sure that I don’t care.
Ha! Yes you do.
It doesn’t excuse it.
It doesn’t, but I think Romo’s lack of self control gave us a window into the clubhouse.
Part of the laughter had to be that you let Casilla blow these games again and again and again. I get the first out, give up one weak single and get pulled for Casilla. Romo, while diminished from his peak, is still effective and is a World Championship closer. He has to be in disbelief of what is going on and it came to a head today. And if Bochy wants to talk about lifetime numbers how about Lamb’a numbers against Casilla and leaving him there at Arizona?!
It wasn’t just laughter, it was a mock celebration as though he had saved the game. Whatever his motivation, it was wrong . He should do as Casilla did- apologize to Bochy and act like a man. Say what we will about Casilla, he’s shown a little dignity after his “demotion”.
At workplaces, when the boss keeps making decisions that prove to be wrong…and when that boss repeats them often, the workers queue up and quietly talk amongst themselves to release frustrations. Some leaders often will have private talks with the boss… Depending on that boss’s attitude, that can help.
I say this because that clubhouse is rumbling. Of course, fans of this “workplace” may be over the top in criticism, but no one will convince me that there isn’t disturbances below the surface.
If there weren’t, would Samardzija show open frustration? Would Romo have been so publicly defiant? If you are a quiet young player, you may not say anything to any vet, but might Parker and Mac, or KT at least talk to support one another through this?
This feels too close to the end of the dynasty as we knew it….will Cueto stick around after next year? Will the players all pull the rope in Direction Bochy?
This season, this stretch, is BAD. Cracks are showing. Not just in my plaster from punches
Are you saying you’re getting plastered? Wouldn’t blame ya!
If you lose the room, it doesn’t matter what you did before.
Sorry if I’m over-posting…but this is the therapy room….
I will stay loyal to my Giants forever. But, I will be critical and “realistic” ( from my perspective).
This is the most confusing, confounding, foundation rattling, disturbing, unraveling two month period in this decade.
And yet…they might win it all.
How weird is this season? Seriously.
What have you been smoking? Lay off the crack pipe
Yup. Bum wins the WC game and then Johnny, Smardge, and Moore pitch like Cy Young. Baseball is the least predictable of all professional sports.
And “Timmy” will close out game 7.
I don’t think they will win it all…but, my God , they are STILL in a Wild Card spot? Absurd
Baseball is pretty weird.
How weird you ask?
The absolute weirdest! Ever!!
https://twitter.com/stewardsfolly/status/777360748087349248
Apparently winning the game wasn’t worth trying to stretch him one more inning.
Everyone can see it, media and broadcasters are even getting more public about it. But Bochy still is utterly stupid
For the record, Beauty was so upset, she went to bed after the last pitch…her last words, while looking at the TV during the post game was “fucking idiot”.
No, I was NOT the target
Are you positive?
I’ll report back in the morning… You have a point
Nah…from your descriptions, I’d guess she’s probably never spoken to you like that.
After how long they have been together, I doubt they speak to each other that way. Admirable.
Now my ex-wife…she had a vast repertoire of terms that all began with “f–king.”
Dude, this is my second marriage. Marriages are tough. Thank the lord that I didn’t have kids with my first.
Merna thought that I was baying at the moon. Again.
That horse shit game has made me so fucking sick I can’t even enjoy a quiet damn evening. This bullshit is discomforting. Now all I see is a horses ass taking us down the stretch. This is not good. Can’t even watch that dog and pony show MLB tv because it’s difficult to re live that damn effin embarrassing shit show ball game. Sackless wonder and the leg humping lap dog. WTF
I don’t watch ESPN after any galling loss. It sucks the life out of me
Man this team has a lot of issues to sort thru.
Maybe, but these kind of losses are preventable. That’s the thing that frustrates me.
OK, for real…I’m done until tomorrow. I just power ate a sleeve of Oreos like they were going through a wood chipper, spoon fed myself copious amounts of Dreyer’s Mocha Almond Fudge, feel like shit for that and my Giants headache.
I hate baseball.
And you love it
Good news- I’ve invited Beauty for Pan Fried Chicken .Tag along if you want.
She thinks I’m an idiot…
Mañana
Mingtian.
So what’s the general theme on local talk radio? Is Bochy getting blasted as he rightfully should? (Not just this game but in general the last month)
i think that Lefty is leading a torchlight parade to Bochy’s house.
Well, I sorta knew this would happen once they brought Casilla in. That hardly makes me unique. I’m sure everyone thought the same.
Basically the team doesn’t hit well enough and score enough runs particularly when the bullpen is a complete shambles.
I’m not going to get excited about Romo’s gesture, it was unprofessional, to be sure, but he didn’t cost us the game. If Bochy wants an apology, fine. “I’m sorry.” I mean, what’s Bochy going to do? Bench him for two weeks?
So now 79-69, 14 games to play. 7-9 in September. 22-36 since the ASB, so the WP is slowly rising to .379.
Five back of the Dodgers; their 4th consecutive divisional title should be all but confirmed by next Wednesday. But you never know. Tied with the Mets, but the Mets actually have something going, so best case we’re looking at a WC game in NYC.
It would have been better if they had played a bit over .500 all year rather than to have this late summer collapse. It has been very disillusioning.
Good news punch line- the guy in the next bed wants to buy your slippers.
Night all.
From Alex’s post on Bochy replacing Romo: ““For some reason Molina has seen the ball pretty well off of Sergio. You go with the history and that’s why the change was made there. ”
Total BS. Then why let Casilla face lamb? Why not remove Casilla after walking Molina? He’s just having what’s gotta be one of the worst managing jobs I can remember
‘You go with the history if it says a hitter does really well against a certain pitcher, but you don’t go with the history if it says a hitter does unbelievably well against a certain pitcher. The reason is that if it’s unbelievable, you shouldn’t believe it.”
Bruce Bochy, September of 2016
To be totally honest, there was a part of me that was a bit fearful if Casilla converted the save. Cause then he likely would become the closer again.
I thought Bochy was done with Casilla after Chicago. Each time he’s gone back to him I’ve been absolutely shocked. Not just because he’s been struggling but due to how much more grueling a loss would be if it was allowed to happen by Casilla again. You’d think he’d have realized that before tonight when the fans, finally, let them both have it. You simply don’t see that at our park. I mean, seriously, when was the last time you can recall a Giant being booed at home? Rowand? Benitez? You’d also think that Bochy would have realized we’re probably going to need Casilla to get some outs for us in late inning situations down the stretch so you don’t want to completely demoralize him by putting him in a 9th inning spot where he blows another one. What if he had managed to close it out tonight? Would Bochy be thinking he’s the closer again? It’s so colossally confusing I’m at a loss for words. It’s like watching someone you care about repeatedly bang their head into a wall and not understand it nor put a stop to it. I was about to type, well, at least we won’t have to see Casilla in a save situation again, and there’s a part of me that’s 100% sure we won’t. There’s another part of me that wants to punch myself in the face for being 100% sure we won’t. So that’s wonderful.
I’d be willing to bet it’s not the last time we see Casilla in the 9th. It’s just been that kind of season. Bochy’s just been that stubborn. It’s just been a total disaster.
I think you’re correct.
It won’t matter now. It’s over. Kaput.
I think Bochy tried what he thought was the alternative, Strickland, and when it didn’t work had to go back to Casilla.
He tried it for 4 batters or so…nope, all along he was pining for the chance to go back to Casilla. Stick got one game…Casilla has gotten ten blown saves. Law? Nope. Romo? Nope, two batters.
No, this is about Bochy being stubborn to a decision to the bitter, painful, debilitating end.
First off, I agree with a lot of what you and Rob are saying.
BUT, it’s not as if Strick hasn’t shown a history of fumbling every opportunity to close out games. So I can’t disagree with a short leash there.
And as far as the other options, they only look good because they haven’t done it before so like the backup QB, they’re the fans’ favorite guy until we actually see them on the field.
I can’t blame Bochy. He’s proven to me that one of his strengths is bullpen management (he has a lot of other weaknesses). He just has a pile of old crappy tools this year. Just because he has a lot of them doesn’t mean he has the right one.
Well…we just disagree. We DO NOT know if these other tools can close or not. Strickland? A much improved arsenal who got one chance…but not really, because Okert was allowed to blow that one. Romo? Law? Anyone?
Bochy has done this in the past with certain players…but management used to step in. The yanked Uggla away from him. They traded Molona. They basically have to remove the tendency for him to not get that “stove burn”
He simply has NOT tired others. He hasn’t. He won’t. Everyone is shocked, and the players are now openly mocking him? This is beyond not good.
I’m with you on Bochy’s reluctance to try new things, especially younger guys. I really thought he and this management turned the corner the last few years when they went with Duffy and Panik and Osich and others. They’ve reverted back to their old ways this year.
Do you mean Romo (mocking him)?
We don’t know if Bochy has the right tools or not because there are a lot of things he hasn’t tried. I’m kind of in your camp on doubting Strickland. I think the tools are there but not the mental makeup to be a closer. Law, on the other hand, has long earned an opportunity. And there are other matchup possibilities he could have tried.
The thing with bullpen guys is they gain (or lose) confidence with experience and opportunity. Bochy’s approach this season has reminded me of the old saw “Only people with experience need apply.” Really? Well how do you get experience, then?
This is 100% on Bochy. I’m not sure whether he’s just having a bad year or whether his reputation for being a great bullpen manager was undeserved. (It’s easy to look like a genius when you have Trevor Hoffman or Brian Wilson.). But either way, it’s him.
Even before last night’s game Bochy was saying that Casilla would still be in the mix in the ninth inning, so you knew this was coming. I think maybe he’s gotten stuck on proving he hasn’t been wrong all along about Casilla and that he’s not an idiot. Well, better luck next time, dude.
Great Post Rob. Ditto for me. I think we have to put ourselves in Bochy’s position: He simply doesn’t know what to do now because all of his moves have failed. The bullpen by committee approach is not working. Casilla is a pile of goo. Law is coming off injury. Romo and Lopez are not as dominant as they once were and Osich is still too green. In all honesty as mad as I am, I do feel for Bochy. It is his job to figure this out and right now our bullpen may end up costing us the division and even the postseason…
That nails it.
Casilla needs to “put that coffee down.”
Steak knives…..
You’re fired……
“It is still fashionable in baseball analytics to say the closer is an over-rated concept”
REALLY?! Cmon man, perhaps by teams without an excellent closer / bullpen. That theory is BS any day of the week.
I’m not making this up.. Many sabermetrics people think the concept of the closer is hogwash and that you should always go with matchups. For the Giants this approach is a resolute failure.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/draft-strategy-closers-are-overrated/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1764072-is-the-closer-mlbs-most-overrated-position
Bochy picks and chooses. Cases in point:
Romo/Molina? Yes
Casilla/Lamb? No
Why? Uhhhhhh…..welp.
I think the main idea is that paying 50+ million dollars for a closer is hogwash. You should be able to develop your own guys that can be filthy for an inning and then fill in the gaps with veteran relievers. Save the big cash for the starting rotation or middle of lineup.
But if you really need that one guy to anchor the bullpen and relax everyone else and reduce the risk of losing leads in the ninth because the magnitude of each additional win is so great, then I guess you got to.
I think we can be pretty assured where Evans will try to plunk his big coin this winter.
Scout, don’t you have to at least do one or the other?
The Giants aren’t going out an acquiring via trade or $$$; the Giants aren’t developing because they won’t put the youngs in for that development.
Law, Osich, and Strickland represent the arms they have developed. Also Okert. Nobody knocking on the door to help the big league pen for next year but maybe in two years.
Could be that a couple wild cards come into play from system such as Kyle Crick and Ray Black, or guys drafted and developed as starters such as Beede and Stratton.
Look for Evans to compete with Nats, Cubs, and even the Dodgers for their current top tier closers. Maybe rumors of talks for Wade Davis come to fruition.
Evans needs to help out Bochy – save him from himself, if you will.
You mistook my post.
Obviously, I know they developed those arms…but they haven’t developed them up here as Closer’s, even in the midst of the total collapse of Casilla. They easily could have been trying several options since mid-July.
Evans is a late band aid on a machete wound type of GM…not on FA signings, but on desperation trades. He’s no Sabes
Hesitant with Strickland and Osich in the ninth – can you blame them?
Haven’t wanted to push Law too hard in the 9th – lean on a guy removed from TJ 2 years ago. He did have some inflammation and had to sit to cool down.
I CAN blame them. Absolutely. Anyone watching this team knows they need to try one of the stuff guys. Strick got less than one chance. Casilla got way too many. It’s pretty indefensible.
I think this is the one area where Sabermetrics can’t be applied. As we all know, baseball players are creatures of habit, especially pitchers who can be divided into starters, mid relief, set up, and closer (did I miss any category?) Each has their own way of prepping for a game.
Ask them to do something different from day to day and it throws them off. Is it something that management is just going to have to prove works, over time like defensive shifts? Probably. But I think bullpen roles is driven more by players than anything else.
i completely agree
This is where having played the game gives one more insight.
I’d like to see how many sabermetrics actually closed a game.😏
It’s an opinion but it does not mean it’s correct.
I watch a lot of the Mets living in NYC and although they have their issues as do the Giants the one thing that separates the teams is Familia.
If the Giants had gone out and secured a Chapman level closer this season we would be looking at 5+ more wins and thinking about winning the division, not holding on for dear life and a WC spot.
I’ve said this a million times, this is the number one failure of the Giants FO this entire season from Winter meetings to now.
Agreed!
The Giants missed a golden opportunity to basically put great distance between them and the wild card contestants. If they had won they would most certainly have 1 of the 2 wild cards. That is a shame. I do view though the closer role as an offensive issue roll. These Giants do not give any room for any mistakes. When WHIP is 1.2 as an average and 4 runs scored is an average, to constantly have only 1 run leads to protect for 3 innings in 1-0 2-1 3-2 games is just asking for trouble half the time. It does not matter who the closer is, to come in needing 1 , 2 or 3 outs and not be allowed to give up a hit without blowing a save is troubling. Sure there are a few closers that are nails, but they are very very few and most are flashes that last 1-3 years then they are mortal.
” well, we decided before that Casilla was a better matchup for Molina, because he had been 6 for 12 against Romo”
WHERE WAS THAT THINKING WHEN JAKE LAMB CAME UP AGAINST CASILLA?????????
This is a disaster. My 6 hours of sleep really seemed to help.
Jake Lamb wasn’t “statistically significant.”
12 at bats is, but 4 isn’t? Or whatever Lamb had against Casilla?? This whole absurd mismanagement of the bullpen and poor decision making has become inexcusable…and I refuse to buy into this theory of “what choices does he have?” ….he had two last night he wouldn’t make: leave Law in. Leave Romo in.
It’s on Bruce.
Sorry, I was being sarcastic (thus the quotes).
I believe it’s 4-for-8, with 4 HRs…
When did Molina get all those hits? I’ll bet probably not in the last year or two, when Molina’s hitting has begun to fade.
Caption on MLB.com video: “Cards score 2 in ninth, stun Giants.”
Oh, I don’t think they were all that stunned.
Some tenderhearted types on Twitter are aghast that the Giants fans in the park booed their own team. Krukow partially blames them for Casilla’s failure. (And the other 12 times were….?).
I couldn’t disagree more. The team DOES owe the fans better than this. What are the fans supposed to do to send a message, write letters? You spend your money, you get to boo. That’s the deal. Keep it coming, when deserved.
Well, the whole booing thing is tough for me. I personally only feel that is acceptable if a player is openly not giving effort. I don’t thing booing is appropriate when a players results are poor…I get fans pay money, etc. but these guys are trying. Casilla is trying. Miguel Tejada loafing after a bunt attempt? That deserves boos. Not much else. That’s just me.
But, last night? Some fan discontent shown by boos raining down? It’s understandable. That game was beyond critical in almost sealing a spot…everything changed on another decision that invited the car wreck results we expected and endured. It’s becoming so absurd I am left to wonder what the heck is really going on for him to keep doing this….
I think those of us at home were booing Boch. Agree you should at least give the player a chance to perform, or not. Then again, I would have let Law start the inning. It’s not like he sat out for very long.
I knew he’s pull Law for Casilla and the Giants would lose so I went to bed. Woke up to being correct. What a shock. #FIREBOCHY
On this I agree and the SF fans are soft. Hell, in the East Coast they boo when things are going well!
Krukow is such an idiot. I don’t know why Bruce Jenkins thinks he’s the bees’ knees. I’d rather listen to Tim McCarver do color.
As you know, Brisbee was all over this. Perfectly justifiable, imo – and a fine baseball tradition.
Casilla has NO business being on the mound in the 9th inning of a close game, period.
To continue on my 1 run lead blown saves being an offense issue, here is a comparison to Kenley Jansen. It shows clearly the risk of 1 run leads. He saved 32 games and blew 4 saves. It would be great to have a Giant do that right? Well looking at his stats, he blew 30% of his leads that were 1 run leads. He also saved 100% of his leads that were 2 and 3 run leads. If you analyze his 1 run lead stats, batting averages .170 > 1.5K’s per inning and OBP under .200. All great numbers yet 30% blown save rate.
http://www.truebluela.com/2014/4/16/5621052/kenley-jansen-save-situations-dodgers-context
I don’t think it’s rocket science to say it’s easier to hold a 2- or 3-run lead than a 1-run lead. But I think that also exposes the myth of the closer. If a closer really is “unique,” they should be able to hold 1-run leads. Otherwise, why not just pick a name out of a hat to hold a three-run lead in the ninth? I know Strickland and Okert didn’t hold a three-run lead the other night, but that’s one game. Nine times out of ten any guy(s) good enough to be in a major league bullpen can get three outs without losing a 2- or 3-run lead.
The point is how frequently should a closer be expected to hold a 1 run lead? 80% 90% 100%? I gave an example of a very fine season in which an elite closer blew 30% of his 1 run leads. So if your not elite blow 40%? How often are the Giants asking to hold a 1 run lead? Seems to be around 50 times or so this year. They have a scoring issue not a closer issue.
all it takes is an infield hit, a bunt or stolen base and blooper…
Scoring issue for sure. I haven’t looked at stats, but the eyeball test game after game tells me they have had a real hard time scoring. The more a team scores, the less often they need a closer. If your closer is weak, ya better have a really strong offense. The SFG offense this year has been unreliable at best. Which has put great pressure on all phases of their pitching, the bullpen especially. It’s a chicken-or-the-egg maddening spiral. All I can do is cry “help Mr. Wizard!”
After going up 3-1 in NBA finals, I felt the day Klay Thompson showed up to a Giants game wearing this was bad karma and it did indeed doom Warriors but it turns out his curse might be stronger than originally thought….
trade him to the Lakers.
I haven’t heard from Trayce in a long time – seems he was hitting about .230 with 12 HRs and then he got hurt and never came back.
I guess you’re kidding. You better be.
Klay is the best 2 guard in the league, even as streaky as he is. He’s going nowhere. Thankfully.
he keeps wearing that Dodger hat, he’ll be run out of town on a rail.
It’s his brother.
Warriors fans don’t care, nor should they
Scouts yankin your chain he couldn’t care less about basketball right Scout?
amen
lol lol
Wow, I just watched the highlight of Crawford making that catch in the ninth. I was on radio at the time and…wow. That should have been Pagan’s ball all the way and it shouldn’t even have been a tough play. He never even tried to speed up and get it.
Good on Craw, but…wow.
I think Pagan saw this old Giants commercial and took it to heart:
https://youtu.be/-5wcT3dtii8
I loved those commercials. Still do.
What I’m seeing in Pagan is an exaggerated first step back.
As an OF you are always taught ” first step is back” so nothing gets over you…however, it’s not so cut and dried. You also judge the swing, you judge how deep you are to start….
So, I think Pagan truly has a very tough time judging fly balls off the bat from LF…he’s used to being in CF, where seeing the pitch and judging the swing is much easier. I know we all think moving to LF is an easier position, but in some ways, it’s way tougher. Judging the ball off the swing is one way that it’s tougher
I wonder why Bochy doesn’t replace him for defense in the late innings, and Span too. I thought that was a pretty common practice. Unless it’s because he’s not familiar enough with Gorkys (and Mac) and well, you know how that goes with Bochy.
Yup…yet another example of how off his game Bruce is…in past years, he made those moves every game. Perplexing year for Bruce in almost every way
Seriously. I seem to recall guys like Burrell and Sandoval getting replaced in the 8th/9th innings constantly. So much focus on the bullpen issues (and rightly so) but this is something that really needs to be asked also. Maybe with Blanco, one of HIS guys back, we’ll see more of it.
LOL–he had a “tough time judging fly balls off the bat” from CF, too. He’s a lousy outfielder. Always has been and still is. He’s just less destructive in LF, so his metrics are better. But the eye test doesn’t lie on this one.
Agree…but he certainly was better at judging the balls in center. He often chose to back off the ones at the wall
Yeah, he’d do a good job coming in on balls to CF. Made some good sliding, diving catches that I can recall. But balls over his head–mercy. Even Span’s better at those, and Span’s not good out there, either.
Yeah but you think he’s cute lol.
Giants need MORSE!!!
Channeling your inner Krukow there, Bro…
Angel didnt want any part of that baseball, he knows he’s terrible so i’ll at least give him that.
I tend to disagree on this one because I think Pagan backed add from the beginning because he saw Brandon going for it full steam and wanted to avoid a possible collision.
OK i’ll give you this one E but overall Angel Pagan is a average cf and a below average Lf.
Yep!
Im just sick and tired of Bochy’s moves or non moves this year.
It was like as soon as he took a step back on contact he decided that it was Craw’s play and just sort of did a slow trot in. I watched it several times. He catches that ball easy if he just sprinted in and called it the whole way.
Easy.
That’s what we all said last night. Pagan is an AWFUL defensive player. Span will catch most everything but is arguably the worst CF throwing arm in MLB. Meanwhile, much better defensive options sit glued to the bench.
The Gints HAVE to eat that contract next year if they want to contend. He’s too much of a liability in CF.
Im extremely frustrated at Bruce Bochy this year! He continues to cater to his under performing vets and i really cant deal with it. Pagan should be replaced late in games with Blanco now that he’s available again. Hernandez should spell Span late but Bochy is so afraid to make these pivotal changes that he continues to hold back the club . I wont start on Casilla because im to exhausted to even talk about it but im dedicating this post to Bruce Bochy the manager to damn afraid that he might ruffle someones feathers at the detriment of winning games. Couldn’t see Maddon or LaRussa pulling crap like Bochy has pulled this year, he needs to go at seasons end.
Did you see Span’s 9th inning throw on the sac fly? It literally dribbled in to Crawford , who was out beyond second base. It was a shallow line drive. Span cannot throw.
On a tag up fly prior, he took three steps , wound up and by the time he waffled the “throw” towards 3rd, the Cards runner was about 25 feet from 3rd already.
If we honestly look at the OF defense of Span and Pagan, they are well below major league level, and opponents are running wild on them.
Poorly constructed team. It’s biting them down the stretch, but to your point, Bruce is doing nothing to maximize what he has available.
Oh Matthew i saw it and it was awful. Bruce can control who plays and when they play. He knows his outfield D is suspect at best but he will not put in the better defenders because he is afraid of ruffling guys. I’ve lost so much damn respect for Bochy because of his stubborn attitude towards change. What a damn meathead!
So the rookie Alex Reyes will be making his third start. Looks like he’ll walk some batters and blow some away.
Here’s the stats …
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=15015&position=P
and here’s the fb velo chart…
http://www.fangraphs.com/fgraphs/15015_P_FA_20160913.png
(may see a triple digit)
Reyes has gone 6 innings in a start and topped 100 pitches. But everything else is less than five full frames and no greater than 90 pitches. I’ll be on the road for this one, but a win with Law closing out the ninth is going to stretch the WC lead to 3 (dang that 12-6 curveball with the high 3/4 release is very tough!)
Right up Belts alley, feverishly whiffing at strike 3 or strike 3 looking / taking the walk!
Belts actually one of the guys who stepped up this series, Slikk…
Small sample size Matthew i just cant do small sample sizes.
this post made me laugh. Seems Belt is whacking the soft stuff down in the zone right now. Reyes probably not his cup of tea.
Oh yeah Belt will murder soft stuff in his sleep lol! FBs all damn day even Stevie Wonder can see that!
He’s 2nd on the team in RBI’s I think…that’s a large sample size!
2nd on team in ribbies lol that isn’t sayin much lol. On a decent hitting team he’d be 3rd or 4th. If a guy like Belt who really cant hit is second on your team in rbi’s then that particular team in question is in trouble. Can’t wait til next year to see what he does in the first part of the season when teams throw him nothing but FBs lol.
So, your focusing on the guy who is 2nd saying that isn’t saying much…so maybe say more about those other guys who clearly aren’t performing…? “Really can’t hit” means you’ve set unrealistic expectations. He isn’t perfect. He is NOT the issue on this flawed team.
The entire team is flawed but you guys look at Belt as if he was a star first baseman or something and he’s not. A clutch hitter he is not i’ll tell you that much.
Belt leads the team in HRs, 2Bs, OPS, OBP, and SLG. 2nd in RBIs and runs scored. In the top 10 in the NL in some of those categories and top 20 in others. But yeah, right, Belt’s the problem here.
Isnt saying much dammit that’s like a big ol group of ugly women gathering together and one of them says i’m the prettiest one here. Leading the Gs in offensive categories isn’t saying much at all.
OK, so crap on Posey or Crawford or Pence or Span or Pagan or Panik. Don’t crap on the guy who’s LEADING the ugly pack–I mean, the team. That just doesn’t make sense.
Leading the team lol, If Belt is leading the team in offensive numbers then your’e in trouble as a team.
Yeah, well we’re in the mix for a postseason berth, so we could be in a lot more trouble than we are.
Again, Slikk–if you wanna bang on some guys for not only not producing as expected but also failing miserably in the clutch, there’s a long list of players in that mix.
True that! Panik Span Pence for a long time and Buster my goodness, Nunez also.
Belt sucks and few here admit it. How can you support and get excited about a 3,4,5 hitter with only 15/72??
Cmon man, there are teams with lead off hitters with better numbers.
At least Posey plays the most important position defensively and is one of the best receivers in the game. I can accept when he has offensive slumps.
What’s Belt’s excuse? He got the contract right?
Not talking to The Belt Birther, pal
I seriously wish I knew why you’re so biased about him. It’s not performance, clearly
It’s racism. It’s “here’s a white guy that I can hate, and–BONUS!–I’ll piss off everybody on the blog. Win-win for Efrain.
Right. We’re racists if we point out that Span’s been very disappointing, but it’s fine to crap on a white guy who’s actually having one of the best years on the team (though I do agree that’s not saying all that much).
Span sucks too so there! I didnt like the signing not one bit and hey guys i’m colored lol lol. That last one was for the white dudes.
BTW if you criticize Span were you referring to me when you stated that i’d see you as a racist because if so then somethings wrong with you.
We don’t admit that “Belt sucks” because he doesn’t and that’s a stupid thing to say. If you want to say you wish he’d be less streaky or strike out less or hit more HRs, those are reasonable comments. But to say the guy who’s been the best all-around hitter on the team and one of the top hitters in the league in many categories “sucks” is just silly and makes you seem biased and childish.
Maybe so but he still sucks so there 😝
Best all around hitter on the team is not saying much PLEASE Dr.
Top 10-20 in the league in a number of categories DOES say something, though. It’s just stupid to say he’s bad or he sucks. If you wish he were Mike Trout, well, me too. But he’s a good player and one of the most valuable hitters on the team this year.
He’s a very good defensive first baseman with below average power that really does not hit in the clutch. Belt is ecstatic with the bases on balls.
You’re also wrong about that. All his “clutch” stats are solid–late-and-close numbers, RISP numbers–plus the RBIs. He’s also in the top 10 in doubles, and for a left-handed hitter who plays half his games in AT & T, that’s an important stat. He’d be a 25-30 HR guy playing in a different park and/or division.
As for drawing walks, would you rather he struck out more? Or hit four grounders to second every night like Span does or roll over to the left side all the time like Posey?
So your’e telling me that Belts numbers show that he is clutch performer when the game is on the line late in games? Are his power numbers top 10 are his rbi’s top 10? Thats where the money is at.
Yes. His career OPS for “late and close” is .794, average .281, OBP nearly .360, 9 HRs. Now, .794 isn’t Hall of Fame, but it’s solid and close to All-Star.
His two-out RISP stats are similar.
The “Belt can’t hit in the clutch” or “only gets hits when it doesn’t matter” myth is just that–a myth. The facts do not support it.
Just for curiosity, I looked up several other Giants’ late-and-close career stats.
Posey’s OPS in those situations is .801. Crawford’s is in the low .600s, Pence’s OPS, surprisingly, is below .650 in late-and-close situations.
Now, it’s getting harder and harder to hit in those situations because bullpens are so good now. So I’m not dinging anyone in particular.
But it does go to show that the “Belt’s not clutch” stuff is ridiculous. In fact, he’s one of the very best clutch hitters on the team, and that’s over his whole career, not a small sample size.
Pagan is pretty good in that category–.776, so below Posey and Belt but above the others.
Numbers can be misconstrued imho. What are his main numbers in the power department of HRs and RBI’s. you love to throw numbers at people all day long and thats nice but i like the bottom line numbers of HR’ and RBIs,
Answer the question please are his power and rbis numbers in the top 10??
I’d like him to stop swinging at balls in the dirt or over his head.
He doesn’t do his best hitting in high leverage situations – does his best in med. leverage, FWIW.
You need to come to grips with the fact he’s among the top 10 firstbasemen in all of baseball by almost every measure and metric.
Best all around hitter? I’m pretty sure that’s Posey. Other guys like Pence and Pagan and even Panik that have shown have better hitting skills. Belt’s value comes from the free pass and the extra base hit. He’s got a heck of an eye.
Thank you E!!! I just don’t understand the fascination with his sorry ass.
I really can’t understand you guys obsession.
He’s a ok hitter and that’s it period.
Them why the obsession?
Ask yourself that same question.
But Slikk…YOU BROUGHT HIM UP!
You and E bring him up, then we point out positive comments, and then you say we’re obsessed…that deflection doesn’t fly
It fly’s in my eyes and that’s all that matters to me matthew. If im obsessed with his crappiness then your definately obsessed with him as a offensive force or whatever you wanna call it.
I swear I’m not. You have never seen me start a post with how great he is. I literally come to his defense when people call him “crappy” and the like. Again, I’ve never said he’s a force.He’s good. He’s a great fielder. He’s not the problem…yet some of you seem to focus on him inordinately. So, some others defend him…..then we’re told we are fascinated or think he’s great or whatever….it’s just a dysfunctional ongoing discussion on the guy
Like i said before i just recently started focusing on Belt this past week otherwise i haven’t brought up his name in ages. Not a fan of his and you are and that’s ok no hard feelings.
BTW i do not mention Belt often, i just recently started focusing on him because he just seems to be MIA sometimes.
You guys are the only ones who seem to be “fascinated.” The rest of us just accept him as a solid and valuable part of the team–has been for years. Will be for more years. Deal with it.
I don’t have to deal with a got damn thing, you guys hype his big goofy ass so you must stick with the program, he sucks.
Your a mystery to me, I have to admit. Between Belts defense and offense he’s been one of the few bright spots this season. Maybe you simply have expectation that aren’t realistic. A good test of a need to rethink an issue is if Efrain agrees with you.
We’re an interesting group.
We have the statistically worst closer in the league. We have two very subpar outfield defenders, one of which is also an offensive and baserunning disappointment. We have two very highly paid dugout ornaments who no longer pitch. We have a manager in the midst of his worst year on the job with SF.
But some folks remain obsessed by the guy who leads the team in HR’s, 2nd in RBI, is the only consistent extra base hitter, and is an elite defender.
Some folks are insipid children who are stuck on auto-loop and under the misguided impression they’re both insightful and clever.
Not to cast aspersions or anything.
We have Aspersions Syndrome
Similar to Aspergers?
LOL @ “highly paid dugout ornaments.” You really can turn a phrase, but you don’t need me to tell you that.
I think a key play in the Cards ninth was the pinch-runner going from first to third, and Span did not even make a throw to third. These kinds of arms/defense do not win close games
I had the exact same thought. I said out loud “there’s the winning run, and we’re screwed.”
It’s irrational. It’s emotional. Not based on fact. No explaining it. Best to ignore it.
There are so many areas where the Giants have come up short this year and I don’t need to go through all of them, but the one I would like to bring up today is Luck. I am not talking about the kind of Luck where the opponent hits a 2-run bloop and the Giants hit a line-drive out, but inopportune injuries to players.
I think that the injuries to Adrianza, Kelby and Mac Williamson have really hurt the Giants both this year and in the future. Just to take Mac’s injury as an example. Mac finally gets some extended playing time and shows he can play, then he gets injured and was never given another chance. He moldered away in AAA, then has has ABs sporadically up here. How can any player succeed under those conditions?
And I would be surprised if he ever gets a chance since it is likely that the Giants will sign a power hitting OFer (probably an aging, under performing vet) in the offseason — it is just a damn shame about the timing of injuries for these three young players and the way the Giants deal with young talent.
Mac would probably have been relegated to the bench or demoted to AAA anyway about then because Pence had just returned from the DL. They probably would have wanted Mac getting regular ABs.
However, it’s just mind-boggling to me that he hasn’t gotten a single start in the month of September. Not one. Every other bench player has–Parker, Gillaspie, Adrianza, Kelby, all of them. And they’ve faced lefties so it’s not like there haven’t been opportunities. Mac deserved better treatment after playing so well when Pence and Pagan were injured.
Kelby’s another one. I heard Bam Bam talking about him with Marty Lurie yesterday. In a very bored tone he described Kelby as a “serviceable” hitter (is there a more mediocre adjective?) but then admitted that he’d hit .300 last year and this year, got injured, and then because of the “roster” got stuck in the minors.
What happened with Mac and Kelby is not about luck except that it was bad luck for both of them. It’s about choices made by management–bad ones.
And to have Gillaspie start one game or take a pinch hit away from KT is so ridiculous…
Or see Pagan and Span in the outfield when there are superior defensive replacements…
Ridiculous suckage to underperforming vets to the detriment of the team..
And the list goes on….
Kelby drove in the winning run twice just last week, once as a pinch-hitter. But does he get an AB in a close game? He does not. Only Mr. Pop-Up with the game on the line.
#FireBochy #FireBochy #FireBochy #FireBochy #FireBochy #FireBochy #FireBochy
I HATE HATE HATE Marty Lurie. He’s my age but he sounds 90 years old and thinks like a 90-year-old with advanced Alzheimers.
He’s not well-informed and he lets insane callers take over without reining them in.
You guys should have one of those back alley fights. My money’s on know one.
chances are they may just see Mac & Kelby as what they’ve been perceived to be – depth players. Mac as a 4th OF and Kelby as a utility infielder. Both may shine in that role and both may not be up to task of every day lineup exposure. Gonna be an interesting offseason to see what happens in LF. Personally, I think Mac/Parker/another guy?/and Austin Slater could be enough in LF with strong pitching in the fold.
Kelby is definitely a utility guy, and he should be a good one. With Mac, it’s too soon to tell. He’s barely had half a season of plate appearances and was jerked back and forth from AAA and then glued to the bench. I really have no idea what he can actually do on an everyday basis.
It’s also difficult to gamble and say he’s the guy (doesn’t look like they are super confident with him either). His moment could come next year as the 4th OF, if Pence or LF hits the DL. So he would be that depth piece that has a lot of potential.
It would be helpful if he had destroyed AAA – put up some high averages in that hitters’ league.
It would have been helpful if they’d actually let him stay in AAA for any length of time. They really wasted a year with him.
That sounds very Company Line of you. Mac and Kelby aren’t even being treated as depth players.
This is the most confused stretch run ever
Hard to believe that Bochy has stopped doing the late inning defensive replacement routine he used to do when he had a lead. Infield obviously doesn’t come in to play with this group but Pagan and Span scream for being swapped out for better defenders. Why is this not being done? Look at the contrast between those two and the earlier guts who were stronger offensively and we’re often subbed for in later innings. We’re talking about Morse and before that Burrell, both big lumbering cheap dumpster dives where the team caught lightening in a bottle for a championship season. Pagan and Span are different. They are both making at least $10 million and in the case of Pagan have been around for a while, and they are fast runners, nothing like those other two. So, I’ve concluded that for some or all of these reasons Bochy is treating the situation differently despite the obvious deficiencies the current guys have.
I really feel that if Bochy thinks that angel and Span see themselves as good defensive players then he will not bother them for fear of a problem. Bruce seems like a passive guy to me hell im thinking about asking him can i borrow $10.000 just for the hell of it.
Bochy is now an incompetent douche.
WHY didn’t the Giants pickm up Morse? Better on offense and no worse than Pagan on defense.
Plus the Dodgers are paying much of his salary. Win win.
I’m pretty fired up to watch both the Niners and Giants lose today. Should make me a lot of fun to be around.
same here
Who are you and what have you done with the real RobDeer?
He’s on a slow boat to the Orient where he’s gonna consume copious amounts of opium.
Going bowling huh.
I’m already on my 2nd quart of 2 percent Clover.
Mini-list:
* Breaking news- Circuit Judge and baseball fan I.Will Gettum sentences Bochy to 25 to life. Public outcry about lenient sentencee
*Best choices to hit for the pither in the 9th- 1.Kelby, 2.Adrianza 3.Brown 4.Blanco….74.The Pope 75. Gillaspie
* Whiteside to Casilla as Santiago heads for the mound ” The season’s on you- your team, 5 million fans, and everyone in the Dominican Republic are counting on you. Now go get ’em, Bro.”
*The Giants incite just too much controversy from the folks here. GG- why don’t you lighten it up? My thought- Race relationships, religious intolerance, and political strife from around the world
I’ll lighten up if the Giants play to their potential or they fire Bochy, Kelly, Meulens, Evans, Sabean and Krukow.
Don’t ever lighten up, Old Man.
You should’ve known him when he was younger. He’s mellowed with age.
Today is now a must-win game. We cannot lose ground to any of the contending teams and we need some momentum going into L.A. Thursday afternoon we were all saying three out of four vs. the Cardinals was a must. Win today, we get that.
Good morning TWG family! Okay, let’s cut to the chase. Today is the 19th anniversary of one if the greatest Giants games I’ve witnessed in person: Brian Johnson’s walk-off HR to beat the Dodgers in 12. That game tied the Bums for first and kick-started the Giants to the NL West title.
Who was at that game? I was sitting in upper deck right field.
Pro football pre game shows are the most boring over hyped junk. So many guys saying the same thing over and over in several different ways i cant understand how people watch it.
I really hope they wise up and fire Evans, Sabean, Bochy, Meulens and Krukow.
You forgot Kelly. He’s at the top of my list.
You’re right. It’s Sunday, what can I say? DERP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kozRt-Wv54A
Dwight is destined for the R&R HOF. His catalog is deep and varied. Nashville doesn’t love him as much as they should.
Viva Bakersfield.
Prince, too, but with Prince, I have NO idea why. Lightweight.
As I understand it, he recorded that cover of Purple Rain while they were in the studio as they learned about Prince’s death. It was a pure after thought and sort of a private homage that ended up almost by chance on the newest album.
A great performer and talent for sure. I’m listening to Gordon Macrae and Paul Roberson these days.
The Sunday AM question: Will Gabbert survive physically and mentally?
Just went back and watched Grichuk’s RBI single in the ninth. OK, ground ball–a hard hit ground ball–just gets through the infield, game tied. Span fields the grounder *maybe* 75 feet behind second base…and doesn’t even attempt to get the runner going from first to third.
Yes. It was a fast pinch-runner who was off on contact, but *every* MLB CF should have the speed to the ball and the arm to make it a close play at third. That was the ballgame, right there. Well, that plus the fact that we’re down to our 4th/5th lefty reliever. Frustrating, to say the least.
Span needs to gather and triple clutch the ball every throw he makes….
He’s a pie thrower. That’s been true for quite a while.
Bruce Jenkins just said Span couldn’t throw a runner out in a grade school game(!). He said Gorkys and Blanco should have been in for defense and that the fans were justified for booing.
He should be replaced for defense with a late inning lead. Again, that play cost us the game.
Terrible example of that last night. What? He can’t make ANY throw now?
He’s got the tools he’s got. His arm isn’t one of them.
If you watch the mlb highlight – I can’t again – the Cards’ announcer absolutely mocked Span’s throw.
I really never thought I’d see a Giants ballplayer boo’ed coming onto the field at AT&T, and so richly earn those sentiments.
And then the announcers criticize the fans for booing said player. Please.
I thought Kuiper was going to pop a cork in the brief post game comments he made on MLB. He clearly had been told to muzzle his mouth about the issue.
Ever hear of Greg “Moon man” Minton, who was booed a lot at the end of his career. There have been others. I went to a game where they booed Bonds when he did not even move for a ball hit to him. The reason my son does not like the 4th of July games was slightly racial shouts at Fred Lewis during the game. He feels its not real fans who show up on holidays.
Stuff happens people with short term reactions do this. Last night I probably would have done the same thing.
It’s the fact he’s a Giants player at home that struck me.
Been a very long time, Noce….
Also a slightly different fan base attending games really. Minton was booed at Candlestick where the fans were nicknamed “battery chuckers”. I witnessed some bad behavior all my years attending games at the Stick. The best/worst was when the Doyers walked off the field during the last game, they had to exit down the left field line and as they entered the door they were pelted and covered with food items. I’m sorry to say I laughed very hard as the nachos landed on Lasorda.
You just reminded me of another outstanding game in Giants history. It was Sunday September 28, 1986, Fan Appreciation Day, vs. the Dodgers. Down 3-1 in the ninth, Giants score two to tie on a Maldonado HR and doubles from Chili Davis and pinch-hitter Joel Youngblood.
The Giants had emptied the expanded bench, and went into extra innings with an infield (left to right) of Maldonado, Youngblood, Spilman and Clark. All bench players had been used, so we had pitchers flip-flop between LF/RF depending on the hitter.
Dodgers scored two in the 14th to take a 6-4 lead, Giants came back to tie it on a CLUTCH two-RBI single from Spilman. Minton pitched the final five innings, got three ABs and two hits, including a double in the 16th inning. He then scored the winning run on a Bob Brenly double.
Minton had absolutely sucked all year (very Casilla-like), and he was mercilessly booed most of the season, including that day. However, this was his redemption and he came through. GREAT game.
I was at that game with 15 other friends and 2 were Doyer fans. Some punks tried to pick on the two Doyer fans and the rest of us stood up and said no no no. We started out with layers of clothes stripped them off and had to put them plus back on. It was the last game of the season and they only had watered down hot coco left which we bought for warmth. We stayed until the end yelling Dodyers Su****.
There was an account of that game in “Tales from the Dugout”. 52 players entered that game.
Jeff Brantley got boo’d quite a bit whenever he was brought in after a while..
Jeff Brantley never closed a WS closeout game.
Huh? I was just giving an example of a Giants players that got boo’d pretty regularly when he was brought in to pitch.
But Casilla never got a save in a World Series either
I thought he had, if not, my mistake. My point was, with this team, boo’ing Giants players is a rare event.
Bochy is the manager, not a player.
That was you, not the fanbase. You’ve ‘hated’ on Bochy for years, so it’s hard to make a case for your epiphany.
From all reports, Bochy was booed.
Yeah, sure. Why do have such glee if that were true?
He deserves it.
You’d fit in Philly.
So what did Samardzija do that was disrespectful? A couple of you mentioned it.
I saw nothing. Might have been frustrated that he couldn’t finish the inning, but nothing near what Romo did…and continued to do in the dugout.
He kind of had that seriously? look of bemusement.
He did nothing.
My guess, he broke down in tears of frustration.
Grumpy face. Nothing more
My understanding was Romo was the disrespectful one. He was laughing as he was being pulled and laughing in the dugout. Estes was not a happy camper and Affeldt agreed with him.
Wow. We’re getting the Niners/Panthers game here in Atlanta! Cool. Come on Niners!
Cam took a beating last week. I’m sure the Niners will try to punish him physically too. I hope Cam will be able to finish the season.
Good viewing to you.
Niners with a 10-7 lead early in the second quarter. Both our scores the result of Carolina turnovers, their TD on a fumble by Hyde.
I hope he’s injured and out for the season and the Niners do it to him.
I pointed out an earlier stat on the LA Dodgers closer that had 3 of 10 blown saves with 1 run leads or a 70% rate. The reliever had no 2 or 3 run blown saves. He was basically 7-3 in 1 run games with 7 saved and 3 blown and 21-0 in 2 or more run games.
Santiago Casilla has come in 23 times with 1 run leads. Twenty 23 times and blown the save 8 times. He has a 65% save rate on entering a game with a 1 run lead. He has save 16 of 17 games in which he had a 2 or more run lead when entering the game. The later is a 94% sace rate or basically automatic.
There is also 15 other games he came in and gave up Zero runs and either got a hold, a win or no decisions. In all he has come in 30 times and has not allowed a run. Some of these outings are 1+ inning appearances.
Again based on the numbers, The Giants have a scoring issue as they have 52 1 run games.
Keep parsing numbers. Casilla is a poor closer.
I saw this yesterday, and 2hole’s schtick reminded me of it. Worth a read.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/09/how-internet-trolls-won-the-2016-presidential-election.html
These moments that scream at me “we’re a descending species” depress me
IMO, it’s rarely ever been political persuasion that destroyed a culture, it was chaos, self doubt, and anarchy.
This is not a bad recap,
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/9/17/12956834/the-only-truth-in-this-world-is-decay-and-entropy-and-we-are-all-doomed
Their turnover; field goal after a really bad Gabbert zone read
Our turnover: touchdown on a great individual effort.
OK, Blaine…great drive, great passes young man
https://i.imgur.com/8JcRZo7.png
Casilla leading off! Whoops….Span, I mean.
I get them confused
Wow, our idiot manager strikes again. Span back up in the leadoff spot. What a stubborn old fool.
Stubborn old fools are the best kind of fools.
Agree. I’m one too.
It’s only for two more years.
Span in the leadoff spot or Bochy in the captain’s chair? Both?
Bochy has three.
So he has more time to get older and stubborner.
Bochy on the unemployment line would be good with me.
That’s a looooong two years if he keeps putting Span in the leadoff spot.
From you, that’s a very disappointing thing to say. I thought you weren’t a name caller. From TO, it’s expected, but I’m genuinely surprised you’d say such a thing. It’s a game, not a religion, and your comment does you no credit.
It’s not name calling. It’s like saying Shaquille Oneal is tall.
Provocative, but childish. You’re nothing if not predictable.
Go ahead. Defend Bochy’s use of Casilla long after Casilla’s proven he can’t do the job. Defend allowing Casilla to face Lamb. Defend putting guys at the top of the lineup who are in deep slumps. Defend his refusal to use late inning defensive replacements for Pagan and Span. Don’t give me a “3 in 5” history lesson. Defend the job Bochy has done THIS season.
If Bochy needs defense, that’s his issue. Over the years, I’ve scratched my head more than once at Bochy’s decisions. Yet over time, if winning is any measure, he’s been right. I’d agree with you in that I don’t understand the Casilla decision, but in all honesty, I’m willing to wait to season’s end to voice my opinion. I’d never try to give you a lesson in baseball, the Duvall discussion proved that. You seem to want to recruit people into your world of bummed at the world outlook. Thanks, but no thanks. I just don’t understand why you want to use people/fans disappointment as a tool to recruit a mob, metaphorically. Are you lonely in that dark place you seem to inhabit.
Recruiting a mob? What are you talking about? Like everyone else here, I’m just expressing opinions. And lonely? I think I’ve been very clear about how much my cat likes me.
You.
“Putting guys at the top of the lineup who are in deep slumps”
Who would that be?
Pagan is hitting .159 in September. Span is hitting .132.
I’ts about NOW,
Span has been on base 7 times in the last 3 games.
The worst manager of 2016.
He didn’t defend, did he? I think he just called out name calling I think
Whatever, dude. You and your “Christian” buddy TF62 were saying some pretty hateful things about a former First Lady, U.S. Senator, Secretary of State, and current Presidential candidate. “Career criminal,” “liar,” “crook,” etc. etc. That’s some pretty high-powered name calling. But I guess it’s OK when it’s aimed at a woman or a Democrat, right?
You’re being a total hypocrite with your self-righteousness about name calling after the ugliness you started here yesterday.
That I’d very deft deflection there! not even going to come remotely close to touching politics on this place.
As for Bochy….I stand by what I said, and I thought I was pretty vanilla in what I said to you. Wasn’t trying to fire it up so much
You’re entitled to your feelings, but I feel nothing but contempt for Bochy now. He’s ruined this season and let his team and the fans down, and he refuses to admit or learn from his mistakes, ever. I don’t respect that and I’m not going to pretend that I do.
I’m sorry you feel that way, truly.
Me too. I’d rather be congratulating him on a successful season, believe me.
Don’t mistake my comment as an attempt to change your opinion, rather it’s your choice of words. There many things Bochy may be, but fool or old fool he is not. That’s a cruel and self serving way of blowing off frustration.
Well, “old” is relative, but I’d say “fool” is a very good description of his rigid, stubborn refusal to learn or change despite abundant evidence that his decisions aren’t working. It’s Biblical, even. See the book of Proverbs.
Your comment, IMO, was at best demeaning the man because of his age. That’s something TO might engage in, as he is doing, but I thought better of you.
LOL, he’s like five years older than I am. But the “old” in this case is less a function of his chronological age and more a function of being old school and unwilling to change.
That’s sort of the point. A public comment isn’t just the property of the person who utters it.
If not, he’s doing a great impression of one.
The season could still be a success.
I kinda agree with cc…I am very upset at the moves he’s making. I just think calling him an idiot is a bit much.
You’re right. Special needs is a nicer term.
(Inconsiderate giggle) (even me)
OK. Give me a word you approve of for a guy who’s brutally mishandled his job over and over and over, wasting the team’s money and the fans’, and wasting the hard work and commitment of his players.
You don’t do condescending well.
I’m just keeping it real. That is exactly what I think of the job he’s done this season. My opinion. You clearly disagree, and I respect your right to do so.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your criticism, but, as I’ve said, I bag it until the season’s over and try and make sense of the totality of what’s happened after all the facts are in. As I said the other day, the near term and longer term understanding of what happened the Charlie Manuel in Philly was a lesson to me of how fans can completely misunderstand what’s happening right in front of their face on the field. What’s missing here in San Francisco are real sports journalist not at the mercy of the franchise for access. The questions asked of Bochy at that post game pressor last night were pathetic. The context of how long and short term personnel decisions are made with the Giants is a blackhole. Superficial comments like TO’s input represents is almost cliched approach to sorting out these issues. In a word, they’re lazy.
It’s a very tough job. Seriously. He looks exhausted
Exhausted? It must be because he used to be a catcher.
He’s exhausted because he wears the losses.
He does look exhausted. I’m sure it is hard on him. But he’s the one with the power to make decisions to make things better–or at least try. My sympathy is with his players.
If Bochy isn’t fired, I’m done with these suckholes.
See ya.
What about Panik in the 2-hole? Maybe he’ll get another hit if they move him back to the 7. The problem with 1 spot- Pagan sucks there.
8.Pitcher 9. Pagan 1. Span
Now Angel will go 5 for 5 today. That works for me.
I agree 100%. Why did they even have call ups?
To provide depth- NEXT..
Oops Coverage in the backfield
That TD was a buzz-kill.
Bethea got torched. He’s the vet brain back there….so…..oops
Well, let’s look at the bright side; he has a forced fumble and an interception (off a deflection).
Chris Myers and Ronde Barber are SO bad
Suarez/Brown
Span at lead off
Biggest game of the year….
We know Bochy. He’s doubling down on tendencies. Sure hope this works.
Posey should insist on playing.
I agree
This is the point of the season where Posey has to play every game the rest of the way. I am usually a guy who understands the need for rest. The last two weeks of a pennant race aren’t that time
He did the same thing last season at the end, while they were still in contention.
That is next years marketing slogan for Bruce
“Giants Baseball – He Did The Same Thing Again!”
It’s like getting baseball strategy from a shampoo bottle. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
Insanity.
So you know why Buster is sitting?
The pregame guess was to rest for tomorrow….I still don’t like it
They lost last night, but I would keep the same lineup.
I agree with all that are saying Buster should insist on playing every day, but even if he’s on 1B…I feel it’s mandatory that he’s the guy behind the plate in any save situation. Trevor Bown is a nice, young, back-up catcher…but there is a noticeable difference IMO when Buster is not behind the plate in late inning situations. If Bochy is going to use Law and Strickland in 8th or 9th inning situations, Buster should be the guy putting down the signs to these young guys…not a combo of Brown and Bochy.
Not sure Buster can do anything better to get Romo and Casilla to close out better.
Alex was saying on the radio just now that Casilla keeps shaking off Buster and that makes it hard on the infielders–if Crawford had a better idea where the pitch was headed, maybe he shades toward the middle and gets that grounder that tied the game.
Not sure what the % of pitches Casilla was shaking off when he was going good, but at this point…Casilla has no right to shake off anything Buster is calling. I just keep thinking Casilla has some “between the ears” problems. Can’t believe how bad this closing situation has become.
Just out of control. Nuts, really.
I made a conscious decision to place the channel-changer away from me, prior to Casilla coming in to pitch. Not typically a thrower of things, but the way the 9th inning has been going lately… 🙂
Yet with all of the pitchers,they get the credit or blame for what they throw.Buster should share in both.You can’t give him props for calling the right pitch without also blaming him when the pitcher hits Posey’s target and yet the batter gets a hit. Can’t have it both ways.
Never wanted it both ways. Recent failures in the 9th inning has been a result of pitchers shaking pitches off and then leaving pitches up (both documented)…which isn’t Buster’s fault. When you can come up with documented examples where the pitch is going exactly where Buster called it…and they lose…then your post would have merit.
I don’t have to document it- happens all the time to every catcher. You’ve seen it many times yourself. It Isn’t just about just the ninth inning, it’s throughout the game , and not just about losing. Buster is a great player, a fine catcher, a very good hitter, a good family man and citizen but he makes mistakes. I know that you will disagree , but he’s not God.
My posts always have merit.
And the good news is, atleast Casilla didn’t balk in a run, too.
He caught his cleats in front side of the hill. Maybe it’s time to move on from that one
There is plenty more to bitch about.
Never. It’s a classic moment.
The all-time worst closer’s relief appearance I ever saw. Remember he hit a batter, walked a batter, gave up hits then let the winning run score on a balk. Some claim this was the start of the Giants tailspin into infamy….
And he did all of it at time when everyone already had the pitchforks out.
Agree that it was a terrible outing. And the balk was the capper, but not his fault. Just fuel for “SOME”
It also happened to Cueto two games ago ……..
Today’s Gs game will be on the MLB network.
He’s at it again. CK says that he won’t eat the white meat at the post game spread .
After Bochy didn’t learn his lesson for the 99th time this season. He puts Span batting leadoff again. I’M SERIOUSLY CLOSE TO SAYING FIRE BOCHY!!!
I believe the correct term from Wisdom Cow was “Fire Bochey”
Span has been on base 7 times in the series.
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