by
GreekGiant
Boy did I make the right decision to go to bed during the bottom of the 5th inning, right after Matt Reynolds walked in a run on four pitches.
I put the word “humiliate” in the headline because I love it’s etymology. It is a word that dates back to the 16th century Latin meaning “to bring low”. It has its roots in the same family of words as “human”, of the Earth, literally to bring to the ground… Right now Giants nation is being humbled and there seems to be no answer to the question “Will the Giants get out of their second half death march?”
Let’s begin with the offense, a team, in full health (as much as any team can make that claim after a marathon baseball season) that has scored a total of 13 runs in their last 7 games. I feel for Bruce Bochy. It’s not his fault his mashers cannot mash and his table-setters cannot set tables any longer with any frequency. Last night the Giants left 5 base runners on base in the first four innings. In both the top of the 2nd and the top of the 3rd they had a runner on second with nobody out. Both runners were stranded. Bruce Bochy is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to his hitting philosophy. He is more like Earl Weaver than Whitey Herzog and he rarely bunts early in games. He doesn’t abide by the manufacturing runs philosophy of many National League skippers.
Time for Small Ball?
The time may have come to change that philosophy to adapt to the stark reality that this team cannot rely on home runs and sequences of hits with men on to put up big innings or come from behind when they give up early runs. It may be time to put runners in motion and bunt every time there is a runner on second with nobody out even with Posey and Pence hitting. The Giants’ situational hitting (advancing runners, getting runs in from third with less than two outs, etc.) is absolutely abysmal. Some great comments were made in yesterday’s threads about the team’s sudden lack of extending at bats and making pitchers work till they get their pitches to hit. It is a curious trait that this year’s team makes so many weak outs, particularly on pitches early in the count.
Albert Suarez had a bad first inning with a bit of bad luck. He gave up a clean single, a dying quail single and a bomb to Wil Myers. He settled down after that and pitched 4 innings without giving up any more runs. He was not dominant by any means but he was essentially, keeping the Giants in the game, until the bottom of the 5th happened…
The Shutdown Inning Blues
Let’s talk about the top of the 5th. Suarez was due to lead off and Bochy pinch-hit for him with Jarrett Parker, who proceeded to put up one of the saddest at-bats this year. Parker is ice cold. Mac Williamson is ice cold. This is what happens when young players only get sporadic at best playing time. After contributing to the Giants success in the first half with the injury to Hunter Pence, Mac and Parker are 0 for September.
Now, I understand the move but let me tell you why I disagreed with it at the time. Suarez had settled in and lifting him disrupted the flow of the game. He had just doubled in his previous at bat and was pitching well enough to deserve another inning or two. When I mean “flow” of the game I am referring to the risk of putting in a relatively unproven pitcher in the middle of a game that the Giants had just made close after Buster Posey’s 2-run double. It was 3-2 and the Giants were in desperate need of a shutdown inning to keep their momentum alive. Then Matt Reynolds happened, game over.
Who is Responsible?
Is this Bochy’s fault? Surely not and the skipper was treating this game as a postseason contest taking no chances. Who is to say Suarez would not have melted in the 5th?
Scoring 13 runs in 7 games is downright awful. Neither the Cardinals nor the Padres have strong pitching staffs this year. I don’t know what to say. Is it Bochy’s fault his hitters are not producing? Did he become a bad manager all of a sudden? I don’t think so. Sometimes teams slump for extended periods of time. Sometimes they slump for a whole season.. Right now they team inspires no confidence offensively and puts tremendous pressure on its pitching staff. When the pitching isn’t perfect the hitting cannot make up the difference. Since the All Star Break the Giants have the fewest runs scored, with 241, fewest RBIs with 228, and second fewest home runs with 49, in the Major Leagues!
When the Giants don’t get a lights-out effort from their starter it’s usually time to watch College Football or go for a walk.
“Is this Bochy’s fault?”
Pretty much. And it goes back pretty far this season.
I wish we could be a fly on the wall of some of these guys’ homes.
Since Boris will be back, los Gigantes should have a major off-season house-cleaning. It would be best for all concerned.
p.s. Start with Evans and Kelly…
Quoting Brisbee here…
“There is no hope. There is only decay”.
We’ve been so fortunate for so many years during this golden age of SFG baseball. I for one have always been hopeful and optimistic whenever the G’Men have been even within sniffing distance of a playoff berth thru this era.
The boys have been in the hunt all season. To this day even, they still have a shot! Yeah, right. On paper maybe. For maybe the first time in over 35 years of summer wildland firefighting I much prefer a fireline assignment over an opportunity to watch or listen to the Giants.
Grant is right. There is no hope. Only decay.
What’s the Brisbee link?
mccoveychronicles.com
Search “McCovey Chronicles”
It’s always on the players. They go out and play the game.
But, there are many things that are on Bochy. Surely it is. An incomplete list:
* Closer. Of course, everyone knows he stuck with Casilla too long in too many games, and the blown saves indicate that. But, his lack of a definitive decision as the house crumbled is as damaging. While Casilla got game after game, the auditions for replacement were typically one base runner, and they were yanked. So he went long leash on bad, short leash on “who knows”
* Lineup. In the critical stretch of the season, he trotted out Span and Pagan as Thing 1 and Thing 2 over and over and over. Gorkys Hernandez has played more inspired than any other outfielder, but found himself back on the bench because a RHP was on the hill. So, whereas the aforementioned got to see many a LHP during the season, Gorkys was given the short leash as we watched grounders to second base and opposing baserunners play Duck, Duck, Goose.
*Give Away games – Matt Cain was given a start in Boston after an impressive stint in San Jose where he gave up 9 runs in 2 innings to a boy band. “He was fine” we were told. No, he wasn’t. That game in Boston was similar to many others where he seemed to be trying his annual Get Them Going Tour only to have it result in what we are seeing now.
This is a short list, but what I see is individual games that may not be specifically on the manager (matt reynolds, matt reynolds, matt reynolds), but the accumulation of Curiouser is cumulatively gutting the results
That Matt Cain decision to start at Fenway really was a head-scratcher. Terrible decision at the time and in hindsight. Pagan was hitting very well the whole season until the past 3 weeks. Span has been hot and cold..
Span has been: Cold, cold cold, hot, cold , cold, HOT, cold, COOOLD.
His arm is horrendous and has cost this team way too many runs. Pagan is much less a problem. But his defense, partnered with Span, makes the vast reaches from the left field line to right center a horror show.
Ok, I was trying to be charitable with regards to Span’s hitting… You sir are more accurate.
The only way to salvage this Span thing at all for the next two years, assuming that just writing him a check and saying goodbye isn’t on the table, is to have him bat eighth and have a competent centerfielder come in for defense in close games.
I would package him in a trade with a throw-in prospect for another young outfield prospect…
If any GM is doing their job, they will not take Span in a trade…we will eat that money regardless
right
Yeah, I’d say Span would be on a GM’s holiday shopping list right above Matt Cain.
I’m thinking wishfully!
All you can do is just laugh.
LMAO.
No offense GG, but Span is way beyond his ‘consume by’ date.
He’s like that cheese in the fridge that Brisbee thought was blue, but wasn’t, and it gave him hallucinations.
And next Spring… guess what?
More cheese?
burp!
Dang poor Matt Reynolds you wont even capitalize the 1st letter of his name lol.
Gotta get these next two with our horses on the mound. Put this one behind us.
I think this avatar has a win in it
Will’s playing tonight?! SWEET!
We could use him!
Have a feeling he could step up to the plate and show these guys a thing or two even at his age. Get him in the dugout at least and let him chew on a couple guys and bring some energy.
Next batting coach….?
I dunno. Will is my all time guy but I am a Muelens supporter. If the job opened up I think he would be a good choice. But I am good with SIr Hensley as crazy as it sounds during this run shortage.
I’m with you, but believe this dugout is begging for new voices
They should def get Will in the dugout pre and during the game asap though. He usually stops by on some homestands but this might be a good time for him to offer a new perspective and even light a little fire. Hope he shows up next homestand. He knows hitting, no doubt about that.
Sir Chili Davis.
Sadly, it’s just Wil with one “L.”
hahaha!
Howz the weather in WPBF?
Still hot and humid mostly but the evenings are not bad, perfect for motorcycle rides!
Just hot and humid
Theme of the second half is ” Gotta Put This One Behind Us”!
It’s not “Gotta Take This One In The Behind”?
1A & 1B
No, it’s we got to get our guys going .
To Tampa….
Bochy will be saying the same thing in mid december gotta get em going.
Guess what, if we don’t (didn’t ) get our guys going, we (were) are screwed anyway because there are no capable replacements–period!
Man you’re awesome, Doughnut.
I’m not being facetious.
Somebody call up Barry Bonds and see what he’s doing tonight. We need his bat in the lineup.
That would end it for me. Might as well bring back Balco.
Today Bonds would still be a better hitter than anyone on the team, and no slower than Posey–who appears to be really hurt.
No more Spagan. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8e6f9e0b901cbdbc274607881ad3fc192c84b85fb19553e851ba4c774e2b8d4.jpg
You know they’ll both be in there tonight. Kuip mentions off hand that Gorkys will start Sunday vs. the lefty. More Span enabling.
Can you all tell I’m frustrated!? I know you are too…
Not any more.
Resigned.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12bf3e047d82c364c116e819ec7bf4fc8975f890d616fcb41cba232402aba62a.jpg
I do think last night’s loss was partially on Bochy. I agree with GG that it was odd to pinch-hit for Suarez in the top of the fifth. Baggarly tried to justify the Reynolds decision by saying Bochy has to worry about a bullpen game on Sunday in Cueto’s spot, but sheesh–there are 20 pitchers on the staff. 20! And that’s all the more reason not to take Suarez out after just four innings, too. Not to mention (again pointed out by GG) that our pinch-hitters, with the exception of KT, have done nothing and Suarez had hit a leadoff double.
I could live with Bochy going to Reynolds to start the bottom of the fifth, but I can’t understand him STAYING with Reynolds as long as he did. It was clear Reynolds had nothing and no command from the first pitch. He got no outs and walked in a run. And yet he was STILL allowed to keep going and give up three more runs.
They were down 3-2 and struggling at the plate, and maybe they would have lost 3-2 anyway. But they sure as heck weren’t going to rally from 7-2. It was just a seriously strange thing to do, and we’ve seen a lot of strange decisions these last two months (Casilla pitching to Lamb, Blanco pinch-hitting for Mac in Fenway, Span pinch-hitting against a lefty reliever with a much-needed run in scoring position…I could go on).
As we say in medical malpractice litigation, the retrospectoscope always has 20-20 vision. I would have hit for Suarez for exactly the reason that you cited–20 pitchers on the roster–but there was very, very little to choose from as a pinch hitter, as has been proven all season long. Parker, however is totally clueless as a hitter and he and Williamson are 0-September. Maybe MadBum was a better PH choice?
Maybe the bigger question is Why choose Reynolds for that spot in the bottom of the 5th? and, as Lefty points out, Why oh Why keep him in so long?????!
4 out of 5 lefty batters as I recall. If he can’t pitch an inning, why is he on the roster. That’s the bigger question. It’s not like the rest of the bullpen is exactly reliably shut down. As I said, the retrospectoscope is always 20-20.
Some people here wanted him used more often!
The problem is , soon as it was obvious he did not have it, he should have been pulled, Osich another Lefty was used later in the game, Bochy left him in way to long .
Nope. Not hindsight. Two hits, an intentional walk, a bases-loaded walk. Bases still loaded, no outs, a run already in. AND HE STAYS IN THE GAME? With five (5) other lefties in the bullpen?
It’s nuts and there are no excuses for it.
And no third C. Why is he on the roster indeed.
Boris can’t admit mistakes. There must be a Shakespeare analogy. King Lear?
Dr.??
I’m screaming at the TV when after the bases loaded walk…out comes Righetti? You just knew they would score at least two more.
Reynolds off the scrap heap, ahead of Okert, Osich or Ty Blach. Kinda says it all.
Sorry, but I’d given up by then. But, you’re still correct. Maybe Boch has a brain tumor. Hey, it could happen.
Not Reynolds!!!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7df5f1028990918c588b9a6a56ed0be0f9cab0ad3d78e0d4fb454ce4336fc77c.jpg
And Gillaspie got the call. Huh?
I know that no one will believe me, but I think Bochy hates KT for some reason.
I think it’s a bias within Bochy against certain players because of their style and attitude. He wants grinders that fight. Kelby just may be too timid for him. Mac may be too “gifted” in his mind, and he’s frustrated with the fact that Mac doesn’t ( in his mind) do enough with those gifts -the Belt Syndrome.
Bochy has his preferences. Quiet grinders that are uber competitive (Posey, Crawford, Panik….Duffy)
Then Evans stole Duffy from him
But…but Gillaspie? Really? What is it that Bochy wouldn’t even say his name the other day when asked specifically about KT?
Gillaspie has “been there”… Vet on his last legs…the Bochy Feel Good Story guy….he always has a sleeve of those Fig Newtons on his team
Been there, then been another there, and then another there…
How many teams have already had their fill of Mr. Happy?
GMs must think (of their OTH guys, or “Never been there” guys) hey, let’s give Evans a call, Bochy will want to play him, and we’ll be rid of this … uh… player… for ever.
I’m biased for Mr. Happy – he’s a decent LH PH who should only be on the field in an emergency. With KT playing there is no longer any reason to keep AD on the roster. But Evans and Boris just cannot bring themselves to admit they’ve made a big mistake with this guy.
And next year (hopefully not 2018) they’ll do the same thing with Mr. Span.
If that’s true, about Kelby…it’s time for Bochy to go fishing. Here’s a kid who has done everything he’s been asked to do. Throw him into the OF mix? No problem. Do the grunt work? Whatever my team needs from me.
Good, young player…glued to the bench.
Right there with you.
Gotta get AD going.
To El Paso.
Could we please finally move beyond that guy after this season? He’s been on the team for parts of four seasons now. He either gets hurt or doesn’t contribute when he’s given an opportunity. It’s time to get over the myth of Adrianza.
Span is an extremely quiet grinder. And his arm has been thru one.
Of course he hates him.. Why would anyone think otherwise?
It was Parker in the 5th .
Willamson is 0-for-Sept. Isn’t that 0-for-1?
Actuslly 0-10 in September, 2 for his last 23 and 13 for his last 64.
Barely hitting over 200 since July, under 100 in his last 15 games and you can do the arithmetic yourself for September.
BtW he also struck out 6 of his last nine at bats, 10 of his last 24 and 20 put of his last 63.
Im not exactly sure what the case for playing him is
NO respect for Suarez, ever. He’s lost his brain.
Watching this team perform, they seem very similar to the things we write on here…there is no confidence, no over-the-edge anger, just the same uninspired and flat games.
I currently feel there is no chance for them to magically turn it on. So, I am morbidly curious about this failure of epic, historic proportions. The overwork it took to get them to the best record at the All Star break came crashing down. The old got feeble. The young got buried. The fragile broke to pieces. The injured got inefficient. The leader got confused, stubborn, lost, skittish, frozen.
This team went basically the whole year with 2 catchers and 13 or more pitchers. It left the rest of the team overused and without proper depth. Bochy and Evans thus built an unsustainable roster. It caught up. Evans signed a 57 year old free agent for 3 years coming off hip surgery. The doctors apparently used his shoulder joint for the repair.
Though none of us agree on everything, those folks who have made certain comments their narrative have been proven right:
Bochy is doing poorly
There isn’t enough HR power
We needed a closer before the season started
The outfield is old and injury prone
The roster is oddly built
Fairly or unfairly, managers are given the responsibility to figure it out. Bruce’s general vet-centric stubbornness was the absolute worst cocktail with this roster. Now, this team may go down in history. He and they will now have their amazing decade tarnished
I’m pretty sure #4 (the outfield) was my one-hit wonder, and I think I’ve said #5 a few times. I can’t say I predicted the top 3. I thought 2015 might have been one of Bochy’s best years, even though they fell short. I was so impressed with how long they hung in the race and excited about the future with that young infield, as long as they rebuilt the rotation, which they did, very successfully.
The HR thing has been true of the Giants after the 2010 season, and they won two titles since, so I didn’t worry too much about it after a good all-around offensive attack last year. The closer thing?–yeah. I didn’t think Casilla was very good last year, but overall, I thought the bullpen would be fine and that someone like Strickland would be closing by now. PJ called the lack of power and Efrain called the bullpen woes.
Together We’re Diagnosticians and Prognosticators.
The Power is more of a factor this year, because the balls are juiced, and HR records are happening all over MLB, on MLB Now yesterday Bobby Valentine said he would like to congratulate who ever decided to juice the balls this year, they have made the games more exciting, never seen so many opposite field HRs in his life .
He’s only 10 years old?
More this year, even when the players were juiced .
It’ more likely that the players are juicing.
Nope
3rd C. Susac is ready now – oh…
To answer Brisbee’s article’s premise.
Would I have exchanged a chance to be in the playoffs (trade for Miller) for Joe Panik?
I have no doubt. NO. I’ll take Joe. Now and for the future.
Did you see his postgame piece where he had an imaginary dialogue with a fan who’s been on an acid trip since Jan. 2, trying to explain the season? He managed to avoid ever breaking it to the dude that Duffy was traded by cleverly and repeatedly changing the subject. It was like a politician taking questions on CNN.
Oh, that’s what it was about! I didn’t get it until I read your take. Thanks.
Thanks.
My favorite line about what happened to the offense? “They got bit by a Burriss spider.” So sad and so true.
Ate some bad cheese he thought was blue. Hilarious.
If you’re in your late 20’s, or early 30’s you generally have a natural impatience borne of your lack of life experience. If you’re a pro athlete, you are well aware of your extremely short shelf life.
With that backdrop, I truly wonder what is going through the minds of the players as they watch Bochy. In general, they have had many reasons to have a deeper loyalty to their manager than most in their sport. But, they also know way more than we do, and can’t be happy with this disaster. I see a group of quietly frustrated, uninspired young men compared to past seasons. My opinion is that some of that is because of lost confidence in the leader.
good stuff
You got my vote too.
Well, this old fart sure has.
Matt you made a comment yesterday about Span running back to the dugout after each groundball to the second baseman , its funnybecause he looks so content and comfy with that cool jog of his back to the dugout! It’s fricken sickening when i look at his face.
Saw that too. It’s like he knows Bochy’s gonna keep running him out there, so…shrug the shoulders and hit your 175th useless out to the right side.
If we can see this, if we can see an aging veteran who’s losing bat speed and has to start early–and rarely goes the opposite way–why does Bochy continue to run him out there? Span needed a wake up call six weeks ago. Probably too late now.
A microcosm of the Bad Bochy…quite a few folks are pulling their finger muscles defending him still this morning, and I really can’t understand why.
The guy is a HOF manager, but no one that is observing him this year can honestly say he’s doing a good job.
Something is wrong. Something major.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8e6f9e0b901cbdbc274607881ad3fc192c84b85fb19553e851ba4c774e2b8d4.jpg
Yup.
POTD (so far). Spot on Matthew.
Bad bad year guys, Panik hurt and slumping this entire season.
Belt up and down all season long.
Duffy gone.
Posey seems puzzled with his lack of HR power.
Pence’s swing and misses are incredible.
Pagans outfield play is erratic.
Span well take a peek at what i said about Pagan.
Crawford steady eddie and durable.
Bullpen overall sucks horse you know what!
Starting pitching overall not bad at all..
Bobby Evans C+
Bruce Bochy seems to have an early stage of something = C-
Thats SLIKKs thoughts about a crap ass season in a walnut shell.
You got my vote.
Busted out 12.5 hours yesterday on the ol job and i continue to come home to an inept display of futile baseball but i must say my emotions have wandered from game to game. Last nights score didnt bother me so much because i knew they weren’t coming back but the late game implosions truly do, like Madisons start out in Los Angeles. Good luck Vinnie!
Read something about “terrible” 40 man roster construction. You can make a case about the lack of a third catcher on the roster in September, and no closer, but at the start of the season, things we’re looking pretty rosey. Evans had done all that could be expected.
For starters, he picked up a center fielder to push Pagan to the corner. Perhaps they overestimated his arm or his health, but Span was coming off 275 PAs in DC with .301/.365/.431 line with 5 HRs and 11 SBs. They figured once his hip was repaired, he’d be good to go and solid up top the lineup as the type of professional hitter they endear themselves to for at least 2 of the three years on his deal.
They had the game’s best catcher ready for 120 games behind the dish and more at 1B. They had an All Star middle infield; one with 20 HRs and other batting over .300. They had Hunter Pence in right, ready to be healthy, hit 25 HRs and knock in about 100. They had Brandon Belt signed to a deal like Crawford, and perhaps poised for a big breakout resulting in numbers you might expect for a big first baseman. At third they had the runner up in the ROY, a guy that looked like he was going to hit close to three hundred with a knack for XBH and RBIs and who can play GG caliber defense. LF was going to be interesting with Pagan, but Mac Williamson and Jarrett Parker were there and so was the inspirational Gregor Blanco. Depth wise, they had Posey covered with Susac and Brown; that’s not so bad especially considering how good Brown looked in his rookie year and how he developed out of thin air. The infield depth was a little spare with Adrianza and Tomlinson, but folks love the grit and the way Tommy plays pepper in the batter’s box. And Gillaspie brought some of that veteran pinch hitterishness to the roster.
Things looked pretty good offensively and defensively (remember, Span was supposed to upgrade the defense in center over Pagan’s extremely dismal ratings)
Starting pitching looked outstanding. Bumgarner the beast plus the pricey additions of an ace caliber pitcher and a guy with the best arm on the FA market. Behind the big three were the two grizzled vets with high salaries but running on cartilage and fumes. Behind the rotation was respectable depth including Heston, Blackburn, Blach, and even Ricky Romero!
The bullpen looked like it had a chance to be good, even without a blue ribbon closer because the SABR folks tell you not to overpay for closers, and the market for closers was absurd anyway. And besides, Casilla and Romo were veterans of closing games for Giants and the new arms in the pen had some high velocity and promise. Javy was the wily loogy, Romo the roogy, Law could breakthrough, everyday George would do his thing and maybe more arms from the farm could help or maybe a trade could be swung later.
This looked like a 90-95 win team. The NL West title was not a pipe dream, it was an attainable reality.
Suede Goats strike for the umpteenth time.
Well said. Everyone just blames Evans for “terrible roster construction.” I think most of that is misplaced. Span turned out to be a lemon, Casilla melted down and the young pen didn’t step up. Otherwise I think he’s done a pretty damn good job. The talent is there, the performance hasn’t been.
“The talent is there, the performance hasn’t been.”
That boils it down perfectly. And this directly affects Bochy’s decision making. He believes in the talent and he doesn’t give up on what he believes to be true.
That is the defiition of the Manager right?
“Getting the most out of the talent of your players.” Bochy has always won with talent that you could say was top five but never the most talented teams; never favored.
Sounds to me: Too slow to try new answers and too quick to pull the plug on the new answers that he did try. Much like a few hear have already said, but I am finally seeing it better.
He’s not just going to pull plug on someone like Span unless he is totally convinced that player can’t compete.
I think Span, even after the last slump, somehow keeps an OBP that merits lead-off but his defense troubles me more. I am thinking it is a sholuder injury he is playing through and Gorkys needs to be out there every game once the Giants get a lead.
Or before they are behind. So… why not give him the starts? We’re losing leads before we actually have them. Span and Pagan leading off just is not cutting it.
It’s easy to pick on those two, but so what? They stink at the top of the order, and kill rallies when they’re not leading off. Weak sisters, my Dad would say, if he were a fan.
His meter for “can’t compete is more poorly calibrated than ever in his SF tenure.
I will agree it is mostly on the players (the ones HE put out there over and over) but Bochy and Evans share in this epic, unprecedented collapse
and Buster and Pence and Bumgarner and Belt and Crawford and Panik…
Span and Casilla and Span and Casilla and Cain and Peavy.
I guess you want to emphasize that you think it’s mostly on the players. I said that already. Bochy has, in my opinion, simply been slow and hesitant on most moves, quick and impatient on others. The equilibrium of this team has been disturbed …and THAT is mostly on he and Evans
No 3rd C in Sept.
Broken record dept…
In total agreement with you. Then again, it’s not how you start, but how you finish.
Solid pickups at the deadline too. Duffy was hurt and out, Moore is a solid rotation piece for 3 more years, is it?
Smith is a solid lefty reliever – somewhat of an Affeldt level reliever. 2 more years?
Nunez is high energy ballplayer with lots of speed and some pop. 1 more year, I believe.
So, the “too many pitchers, not enough catchers, rolling the dice on old outfielders and 2old starters” was “pretty rosy”??
You’re looking pretty smart in hindsight.
I said it in foresight, too…as did many.
Perfect rosters?
As I watched Reynolds implode I kept thinking about a third catcher in Sept. And how easy it is to have one. Not.
Nice post Scout
My take is it started in the second game after the ASB. The gut punch the blown save brought was not easily shaken off. Add to the mix you have two hitting coaches at odds and now you have a confusing message. You also have players that have difficulty becoming inspired when you roll out the same lead off hitter and closer. And Bochy is too even keeled, maybe because he knows something or maybe because of his blood pressure or both. But sometimes you need a manager to lose it. And then there’s the snake bite. We are the result of all these ingredients and more and more that we don’t know about.
Sometimes teams don’t recover from whatever snakebite got them. Take the Snakes: they lose Pollock, Miller scrapes knuckle on the mound, Greinke and Goldie get off to slow starts and then the team tanks and they never recover and live up to what looked like a mid to high 80’s win total team. Can take the Astros as well. Loads of young talent, returning CY, maybe a World Series. But no, they are in a similar position as the Giants. Fighting for a Wild Card (Giants in better position). Who else sucked that was supposed to be better? Marlins looked poised to make a strong WC or division push. Mets were supposed to be up there with Cubs on top shelf. Blue Jays were supposed to be an offensive juggernaut but I recently read that they’ve been as bad as the Giants of late…
Good post. It’s been a year of disappointment for many teams: Blue Jays, Marlins, Astros and Mets. I think injuries are a huge problem at the Major League level and teams need to examine how they train their players. Under-achievement is another issue that is largely a combination of psychology and un-realistic expectations/overblown evaluation…
Great comps.
Brisbee (as usual) has an amusing conversation with himself on this very topic today:
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/9/23/13039824/giants-drubbed-by-padres-7-2
what a nut that guy is – great job, his creativity is off the charts!
I used to get annoyed by his style, but he’s really rounded into an art form. Great reading for when the team is in the dumps.
He’s clever and funny and his analytic skills are pretty good, too. He’s also a fan and expresses emotion–that’s what fan bloggers get to do. He does a nice job, and I read him as regularly as I do the beat writers.
It seems Bochy has tried just about everything in regards to mixing up the lineup, bullpen setup, etc. While he is a forever optimistic manager, it is quite possible that he needs to check himself and realize what he does is not working. The manager and coaches can only do so much. I get that. Perhaps some of the players have checked out on Bochy and even some players have checked out on each other.
There just doesn’t seem to be any kind of passion to play. Where is Pence with one of his motivational speeches? Does he only speak when it’s going good? I love my Giants, but these last 8 regular season games are going to severely test my patience.
I am thankful and grateful for the 3 WS championships that the organization gave us long suffering fans, but there needs to be re-tooling with this club.
But, he DOES try to shake it up. Problem is, it’s only for one game. Then, back to same-o, same-o.
Right. That was the other thing. Bochy has to drop Span to 8th. What he did in MIN/WAS is in the past. That is not the Span we signed. They signed a guy who is in his early 30’s with a pop-gun arm a repaired hip. Dude is sporting gray hair in his beard. Prematurely old? Sure as hell looks like it. If he’s just here to collect a paycheck, trade his ass. I would much rather have Gorkys out there.
Erratically deviating from baseline behavior might be another definition of insanity. Right, doctor?
Sorry I don’t have meme picture for that, or credit to the author.
A “your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness” thing?
If so, do not expect any change from Bum but just a manager making moves like this.
It wil lbe interesting to see how Bum does today if the word out is to incite him and you beat him.
I think that last episode with Piggy, may have taught him a lesson. Sure hope so, anyway.
It taught him to make his ‘statement’ from the pitching rubber. I hope Puig is good at dodge ball. Maybe Utley can teach him a move or two.
He barely dips his toe in cold water and yanks it out quickly in some cases ( Gorkys)
He jumps in and nearly drowns in others (Casilla, Span)
My point exactly Matthew.
Great post, GG.
Yep. Nailed it.
Like almost all fans, I wonder what the players think about their leaders. Take the Bummergate fiasco. Many surely thought that Bochy was insane to pull MadBum. What they didn’t know was that the Skipper was changing Madison’s diapers and trying to explain that Puig was a bad boy for staring at him but that was no reason to go all wee-wee. So basically Maddy took himself out of the game by losing control- in more ways than one.
Yup. Madison should be ashamed of himself for losing it over someone that’s already gone from LAD.
Many players are bad little boys when it comes to the Dissing Game. In the real world the boss might order that an employee seek counseling when he/she goes off because the worker in the next desk sneered at him.all funny like.But baseball isn’t the real world so we get supposedly adult men getting ready to fight because of a smirk. Bochy didn’t lose that game, MadBum did.
They both did
OK.
BTW, everybody enjoyed the Pan Fried Chicken,Sorry that you couldn’t make it.
F%#k you! 😜
I can’t tell if you are joking. Hey, at least I didn’t mention that Beauty ate the Pope’s nose- that is always just for me.
I am…sorry ( insider you and me joke)
MadBum pitched seven one-hit scoreless innings and left with the lead. Explain to me exactly how he “lost” that game?
Lefty, I’ll admit that his mistimed tantrum ( which I was screaming about as it unfolded) led the manager to a poor decision, and according to the LA dugout, woke them up. He pitched fantastic…he changed the game with his hissy fit
Based on what evidence? Bochy and Bum said he came out of the game because he was tired.
i already explained it.
No, you didn’t. For the record, I don’t think Bochy “lost” that game, either. The bullpen didn’t get the job done in the ninth for the umpteenth time this season. Even if Puig and Bum hadn’t had words, likely the exact same thing would have happened.
Why all the “yelling”?The overwhelming consensus here was that Bochy had lost all of whatever marbles he had left. if you were one or two who didn’t blame him, then it would seem that you would have a problem with those who had no idea what they were talking about. You are actually agreeing with me.
7 innings, 1 hit, 0 BBs, 10 Ks. We’ve been thru this before. He blew it.
As per Lefty, he said he was “gassed”- so your position would be to send him out there anyway?
Welcome back Chef (or I just noticed).
What the players think seems to be the great question that will NEVER be answered; personal respect for others seems to preclude that and I am okay with that.
Who do you think needs more playing time to spark the offense?
Gorkys sure looks like BlancoReloaded.
Gregor has had considerably more success at this level than Gorkys has had.
You may have missed all the discussion over the next couple days during your getaway, but I don’t actually believe Bochy pulled Bum for “punishment” over losing his cool with Puig. It just doesn’t make sense and isn’t Bochy’s style. Casilla showed Bochy up publicly and didn’t lose his job as closer. Romo openly laughed at Bochy just a week ago and has two saves since.
The Occam’s razor explanation is that Bochy asked Bum if he was done and Bum answered honestly–that he was gassed. That’s what both Bochy and Bum said happened, that’s what Schulman (citing both on- and off-the-record sources) thinks happened, and any other theory is just gossip and speculation with no evidence to support it. And like I said–it’s not Bochy’s style to discipline a player that way, and it would make even less sense considering who it was and the high stakes of the moment.
I think you’re both right. It surely did wake up the slumbering Dodgers, though. So in that way, it is on Bum’s shoulders. Tipping point? Surely.
Woke them up? They scored two whole runs in the bottom of the ninth off an imploding bullpen. How is that different from the 5-6 other times that’s happened to the Giants this month, and how is that uniquely Bumgarner’s fault? Even if the thing with Puig never happened, it very likely would have ended exactly the same way. One thing that seems certain from the postgame comments is that Bum wasn’t going nine.
That’s a reasonable post- and I don’t really think that MadBum couldn’t continue because Boch was changing Madison’s diapers.I was making the point that he acted like a 6 year old.
As to being gassed after just 97 pitches, have you heard why that was?
One final word on that- your explanation of what really happened makes total sense and should make a hell of a lot of folks here feel pretty embarrassed by their comments castigating Bochy when the fact seems to be that MadBum didn’t think that he should continue. Bochy should given credit for only saying “we talked” . i’m glad that put aside your feelings about Bochy to give him credit for his best trait- treating his players as men even when they act like brats.
It was a galling loss in a big game in which our ace was pitching like his absolute most studly self. He out-pitched Kershaw. It’s easy to look for someone to blame, but the fact is that the bullpen’s been falling apart all season and especially in September. Oh, and the fact that the Giants’ offense scored one whole run, and that one on a wild pitch.
And that one run was unearned.
But the guy that made it happen doesn’t get a start again at lead-off? Must make sense to someone.
Single-handedly stole that run off Opie. Bat him 6th.
I’m puzzled- I thought that you were giving Bochy some credit ?
I sit still don’t believe. It took too long to get to that explanation, and a guy who did what Bumgarner did in 2014 doesn’t get gassed after 97 stress free pitches and doesn’t ask out of the game. And as far as a Bochy decision not making sense, there’s nothing unusual about that in 2016.
I mostly agree. I think Boch shamed him.
Sure am glad you’ll never be my teammate. You’d never have my back.
Seeing how we might be 150 years between us, I don’t think we need worry about who has the others back
Highlights of the Giants in the AFL Finals from last night!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45Hkba1o64g
I’m sure they have a blog too.
Check out from the 1:45 to the 3:00 mark. Yikes!
That was fun. Gotta love the Western Pornstache’s chance in the Googly Finals
how would pagan do playing this game?
Speaking of roster construction, how many teams had perfect roster construction, virtually free of holes?
Cubs?
And how many years of crap teams did Chi endure? In 2011, lost 91 games, 2012, lost 101. 2013, 96. 2014, 89…
These things go in cycles.
That’s important. It’s more complicated than “The Chicago front office are geniuses and everyone else sucks.” They had great draft picks for years to rebuild their system. And look at the Nats getting Strasburg and Harper two drafts in a row.
Yep. And that doesn’t excuse Sabean Barr Tidrow from some no so great drafts. That’s where the fault lies if any, imo. Simply haven’t nailed enough but that’s tougher to do drafting 18.
The last top-10 pick the Giants had was Zack Wheeler in 2009. Since then, Panik has turned out pretty well, and I have high hopes for Arroyo and for Beede. Brown and Crick are busts, Stratton is not going to set the world on fire, and Bickford is gone. Not sure about Shaw yet, but his top-100 placement at midseason was promising.
For understandable reasons, we (Giants fans) usually disregard the value proposition the League and experts have about our talent pool in favor of our own back of the envelope perspective. It certainly makes us feel better, but experience shows, it’s rarely right. You can pull the rare successes out of the pack, but it’s hard to make a case for the Giants being diamond in the rough hunters when you look at the dead end kids we’ve fielded. IMO, about all that gives us an advantage is the style of ball we play, and the park we play it in. And, even at that, it’s a pretty fragile balance.
I’m somewhere in the middle on this. I get frustrated with the Giants thinking they’re smarter than the experts with their draft strategies. I was happy when they actually got kudos for drafting Bryan Reynolds and for grabbing Beede in 2014. To me it’s clear that either their drafting or development approach needs a fresh look, and I’d say it’s more the former. They seem to get a lot out of the modest talents of the guys they do pick, with Matt Duffy and Kelby Tomlinson being good examples of players who achieved beyond what anyone would have predicted. Austin Slater and Steven Duggar are looking like a couple more, and maybe Ty Blach, too.
At the same time, they HAVE had a lot of success bringing up guys from their own system over the past ten or so years. Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Posey are gimmes as top-10 picks (though not always, right?), but there’s also Cain, Wilson, Romo, Jonathan Sanchez, Belt, Crawford, Panik, and Duffy–all homegrown but not blue-chippers (Panik and Cain were late first-rounders, everyone else much lower)–who all contributed greatly to one or more championships. So I think “dead end kids we’ve fielded” may be too strong. I still have some faith in their development process, but I agree that they need to draft better (and do better at signing international free agents, too).
I don’t think I have a lack of faith as much as I’m coming to feel so much of Giants success is based on a style of baseball that demands an integrated style of play in a setting that rewards it. It’s an equalizer. When you try and play a game that works well on the road, you sacrifice your advantage at home. I haven’t really followed the Away/Home record, but I think the Giants have been pretty mediocre at home I bet, and better on the road. That’s just an odd outcome for a winning Giants team.
You are correct. They are mediocre at home and not bad on the road (as road records go, that is).
Lets not forget besides drafting, the Cubs also traded major league players in the process for other players. Remember the Shark and Hammels and they got Russel.
http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2015/09/10/theo-the-trader-evaluating-epsteins-trades-during-his-cubs-tenure/
Yep–because they were in a rebuild. Contending teams don’t trade big contributors. It’s smart for rebuilding teams to do so, though.
No one does…you’re a guy who is interested in roster construction, prospects, and GM maneuvers.
To me a GM, a manager, and a roster is what their results show.
The Cubs are certainly as close, but let’s see how post season goes. Hate to say it but, LA has done a great job of plugging holes, especially on the bump. Texas looks extremely solid. Boston as well.
Who has a fractured roster out of the elite? SF, Baltimore, KC.
You sound a bit like PJ.
Huh? Why?
You’re a guy who likes slappy hitters.
We’re on a roll, Cuz.
Bonnie, in a word, no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY
I’m watching a fascinating TV show called, “America: Fact vs. Fiction”
It is, in some way, perfectly suited for conveying the Bochy myth about popular belief vs. the “actual facts” of the situation.
This season pretty much shows why the wild card needs to be removed. Down the stretch you have 1 team going 6 and 4, 1 going 5 and 5 and a team going 4 and 6 in the past 10 games. At one point the idea of the wild card is to get a team in that could get hot be playing great ball and just fall short because of a stud of a team in first. There is no team that is in the wild card chase that is deserving to be in the playoffs. In fact 1 team is just trying to survive and hold on to the great lead they once had. They are the epitome of how bad the wild card is by not stinking so bad they are out of the wild card.
I agree. It’s pretty pathetic this year. The NL Wild Card is an embarrassing “who doesn’t want it the most” contest right now. It’s not like 1993, when the 103-win Giants missed the playoffs on the last day.
But despite what’s being said now, I’d bet the blog would be totally psyched by the time when the WC game was upon us. Presuming that we are in it.
Oh, of course. At this point, it would be a happy surprise. I’d look forward to it rather than dreading it. House money, and all.
Not moi. This team is not a playoff team. The W/C is a joke.
So you’ll be skipping it, Paul?
I’ll be watching it out my one dyin’ eye.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FOlV1EYxmg&list=RD1FOlV1EYxmg#t=32
As compared to the AL, where it’s a five team dogfight. Best record in AL up for grabs. That’s how you finish a season.
It’s well known that getting into the dance at all is step number one. Some teams, like the 2014 Giants, take advantage and take it all the way. But some teams always gag it up even as the favorites to dance with the stars.Off the top of my head the Cubbies come to mind.
Since we’re into microcosms:
Evans : 20 pitchers, but 2 catchers…riiiight
Bochy : Reynolds is the choice out of the 20? In the biggest moment of the year (nightly occurrence now) OK. Wait…Reynolds is still the game???? For 4 runs????
It’s up to the players to perform. It’s up to the manager to put them in the best position to succeed. It’s also up to him to tighten the reins as the season winds down.
After the 5th inning I went to mute, put the game in the corner, and watched Burton and Taylor scream at each other (‘Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?’). It was less depressing.
Here’s a two-for on your Saturday morning. Played some blues on the guitar last nite, Ronnie one of my favorites; today gonna transplant my broccoli, kale, and cabbage seedlings. Second one goes out to you, Steve K.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhX5Scq-yw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2SRcILBQXM
thx pal…as JP Richardson would say..”you know what i like”..
Thank you sir.
Henry Schulman had a nice piece yesterday (behind a paywall, but you can get to it by going to his Twitter feed) about the resurgence of Ty Blach this season. He mentions a new pitch (a “spike curveball”), Blach’s excellent changeup, and his 90-93 MPH fastball. But the most interesting part of the article was the comments from the Sacramento pitching coach:
Dwight Bernard, the pitching coach for Triple-A Sacramento, said Blach’s curiosity and willingness to take advice contributed to a great repeat season with the Rivercats. Blach’s 3.43 ERA ranked fifth in the hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League.
“Over the long haul he’s always wanting to learn, always asking stuff,” Bernard said. “If he doesn’t feel right doing something, he’s like, ‘Hey Dwight, what am I doing wrong?'”
That might seem obvious, but so many prospects stubbornly reject advice. Asked if he has coached his share, Bernard said, “Guys who know everything? Yes, sir.”
That’s the same pitch Samardzija picked up. As I recall, that pitch he’s throwing now isn’t that lazy curve he used to.
Samardzija has really, really turned things around. It reflects well on both him and the pitching coaches, and it makes me look forward to the coming years with him.
Makes you believe in magic bullets. ;-). I suspect, if the Giants make the post season, your going to see Samardzija closing.
An interesting idea. But with Moore up and down, I dunno.
Assuming that post season, if it happens, lasts more than one game.
I’m glad I was wrong about calling him a ‘chucker’ and a meathead. Really wrong.
Even though gone now, Grantland was a wisdom factory in understanding baseball and what makes it tick. The Chicago Cubs rebuilding strategy laid bare. It’s important to realize that rebuilding approaches aren’t a one size fits all, but need to map on to a team and it’s surroundings.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-cubs-rebuilding-theo-epstein-javier-baez-kris-bryant-jake-arrieta/
It sure sounds reasonable in light of how many “busts” happen with pitching prospects. The problem I see is with guys like Bum and the great, but brief successes with Tim and Cain. Maybe the trick is offing them before their “use by date” is up, if that is possible.
I love the part about how they pull pitching from the scrum and only draft for hitting. They have a cost conscious strategy using the FIP/ERA difference as a tool.
Just a thought….maybe Span is a 3rd half player!
i am hungover and it 100% the giants fault!
I’m in for the details of that journey.
i dont remember. hehe jk
You certainly can’t say that Bochy is directly responsible for hitters not hitting. At the same time, as manager he does a lot to set the tone. There’s no way to measure the full impact his poor decisions have had on the team, beyond the obvious impact they had at each moment. Part of his job is to motivate, and these guys don’t look very motivated.
Four hits off Edwin Jackson, an end of career journeyman with an ERA over 6.00. Gotta try something different, Skip.
Bochy is to blame because he never stays with the hot hand. He continues to put Span and Pagan at the top of the order. He would never admit he’s wrong and sit a vet so that a younger player can get much needed bats. His whole game year after year was his management of the bullpen. Giants under his tenor have never had a juggernaut offense. Although he has won 3 WS I still blame him for 2009 and 2011 when our pitching was just beyond fantastic but he put together piss poor lineups day in and day out. So flash forward this year and his one great strength is not there anymore. That’s why the crash in the second half. He doesn’t know what to do outside of relief pitching.
Span WAS the “hot hand”.
Pac on reads above the digital fold.
He was hot for one month–August–the whole season (OPS .889). He was decent in May (.769). All the rest of the months have been pretty bad. This month is the worst (.479).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=spande01&year=2016&t=b
preach lefty:)
I know that you don’t like hearing it but being on base 12 times in his last 6 full games, including last, night qualifies him to be the “hot hand”.
He’s the “hot finger”
He’s being platooned and has an OPS under .500 for September. If that’s a hot hand, God help us. And then there’s what a huge defensive liability he is, too.
It’s about now, not early September, or August , or May.Being on base 12 times in 6 games IS the hot hand. I don’t see how that can be argued.But look, I really don’t want to argue with you all day- just half of it.
OK, Chef. Span is an indispensable sparkplug of the Giants’ potent offensive attack and Bochy is a genius for putting him at the leadoff spot.
I can’t withstand your “logic” (which conveniently ignores the fact that in amassing those “six full games” he’s being PLATOONED).
I didn’t say what you said I did. And I’m glad that Gorkys is playing a lot. He should be in CF and Span in LF. But if one is looking for the scapegoats for the second half there are plenty more deserving of the honor.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the next 8 games. I think that you are too.No “real”fan would have it any other way.
Let’s see if today’s Cardinals heat gets the bats going…..
6-3 Cards in the 6th.
That means the Giants and Mets both win tonight.
Are you saying Jobu is really a drama queen?
Naw. It’s just the Giants can’t seem to gain any ground is all. Win one, lose one. It’s been that way the last four games.
The Chef asked below why Bumgarner might have been “gassed” after 97 pitches in his last start. The easy answer is to look at his workload–most pitches thrown in the majors this season. And he is the only starter in the major leagues currently on a six-year-in-a-row 200+ innings streak. (Cole Hamels has 193 innings this year, and if he gets to 200, he’d be the other one.) And that’s not even adding Bumgarner’s postseason workload during that period.
But I suspect the deeper answer is that Bumgarner is mentally and emotionally spent by how this season has gone for the team. I remember Alex making a comment a couple of years ago about how much Bumgarner hates, HATES to lose. So going into that Monday night game against the Dodgers, he felt the weight of the world on him, and as he has so often in his career, he rose to the task–he was brilliant and he left it all out there. It’s possible that the confrontation with Puig and his coming out of the game at that point were both due to the same underlying factor–the physical and mental stress caught up with him. He’s human.
Madison Bumgarner is not perfect, just like the rest of us. But he’s a treasure, and we Giants fans should always remember that. And I may never forgive Baggarly for calling him “self-absorbed.” There may not be a less self-absorbed player on the Giants.
What’s Bum garner had this year, 4-5 games where he left with the lead only to give it up by a bullpen failure. That’d wear on any pitcher. It’s been the difference between being a 20 game winner and not.
And being a Cy Young winner or not. This young man signed a team-friendly, long term contract that he truly believed was also good for him. He bet on himself by building escalators into the contract for winning CY, or finishing in the top three.
Poor support by his teammates has cost him plenty, yet you’ll never hear him say a word about it. A very special young man. Sure glad he’s on our team.
At least 18, easy.
Bum has made 32 starts. The team is 18-14 in his starts. His own record is 14-9.
–In five of his nine losses, he gave up 2 or fewer earned runs. (In 3 of those, he gave up just 1.)
–There were six other games where he left with a lead and the bullpen couldn’t hold it for him.
So that’s 11 starts in which he did his job by either leaving with the lead or giving up two runs or fewer–and ended up with either no decisions or losses due to poor run support and/or poor relief pitching. If you say he even goes 6-5 in those 11 games, he’d be a 20-game winner already.
And that actually even understates the case. There are a couple of other games that the Giants won where he got a no-decision (e.g., the 2-1 win over Boston), where he gave up 1 run but the winning run scored after he left the game.
He is the last guy to throw teammates under the bus by ripping his offense or his bullpen, but–it’s got to be wearing on him. He’s having the best year of his career and has a lot of frustration to show for it in terms of team outcomes and his own W-L record.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=bumgama01&t=p&year=2016
I’d demand a trade if they don’t properly re-stock the bullpen and get some power in the lineup.
Or at least a new contract that pays him what he’s worth.
Baggarly should have looked in the mirror when he uttered the infamous *self-absorbed* line….
Although TO has always disagreed with me, the straw that pushed the darn camel onto it’s side was the KC game 7. Sure Bum#40 pitched well in 2015 but like the good Doctor above said – it could be many residual and intangible things. Me thinks the totality of his career workload so far has taken a tole on his ability to have to keep pitching to hitters who stay up at the plate consistently fouling off pitches into the stands. Too many times Bum can get hitters 0 and 2 in a nano second and then he feels he must nibble or trick hitters. His peculiar pitching foundation where he cross-steps his lead leg upon landing – has mesmerized hundreds of hitters but it also has prevented him from nicking 94-95 consistently – which based merely and solely on his physical frame … he should be able to reach easily at 6’5 and 245
Current POTD. Spot on, Doctor.
That’s a lot of speculation from someone who just objected to speculation.
My question was genuine and entirely reasonable to ask about .It’s still not been answered,.
I wasn’t criticizing the question and I was trying to answer it. The first paragraph is straight facts with zero speculation.
You were just stirring the pot to see what bubbled up.
Bad chicken?
Beggs is like trump – accuses others of his own faults.
JoBu and Breckeroni and Deshun Wang say the remaining games have to be “taken over” by the veterans on the roster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX4saxIfPYw
Such inspirational words and story. The Giants should watch this video and get on a roll heading into the playoffs:
“I’m 80 this year and still got some left in me. I still have some dreams to achieve.
Believe me, potential can be explored. When you think it’s too late, be careful you don’t
let that become your excuse for giving up. No one can keep you from success, except yourself.
When it’s time to shine, be the brightest. I’m Wang Deshun. I’m the fiercest norteaserner.”
I’ve been to Shenyang China, where Wang is from. A provincial capital, t’s a sprawling, gritty, polluted industrial city of 8 million. Northeast Chinese are known for being direct, tough and bellicose. The winters there are long and harsh.
Now go Giants!
Be the fiercest!
What’s the deal? Nothing but old farts here?
The young ones don’t have the stones yet to strap it on and tee it up…
Great Post. You (also) ROCK!
I’m out TWG. Make it a great rest of the day. Let’s get that win!
Enjoy your day!
If any of you managerial geniuses really want Bochy fired, you should hope that he takes your advice and sits “HIS GUYS” when there are 8 games left, You “realists” need to get real.
Hey Chef…you’re a master at layered messages. True. Here’s what I wonder: this second half has been bad, right? Why?
I believe it is all parts: players, manager, GM, injuries.
I think it’s fair to take time on here to criticize away. When a highly compensated team has the worst record in the sport over 2+ months, fair game.
I’m reading through your posts and I think I read now that you don’t feel it’s Bochy. You feel Span should start. What do you pinpoint this crash on? I know it’s more than one thing. What’s your take?
Certainly it’s fair to criticize.I do it all the time- very often about Bochy, especially lately. But I do think that he deserves way more respect than he has been given here.
But anyway, let’s not let that come between the bond that has tethered together , 2 dogs on the same leash that our Gamer Babes allow us.
Well, everybody we eviscerate probably deserves a lot more respect than we all show…I’ve done posts earlier this season at my whiny best.
Yet…..when you are in a season with the most epic collapse in history, everyone is a target, and the normal levels of respect will be hard to find. Fans are frustrated and confused, looking for answers and villians
The most epic collapse in the history of what? Not baseball.
Has any team had the best record up to the ASB, and then the worst after it? I believe our guys are in line for infamy
Not if they are in the playoffs. And they have a real chance of being there
I’m just waiting for two consecutive wins with “his ” lineup, not one with Gorkys, etc. instead of Span and Pagan leading off in the #1 and #2.
it would seem that Gorkys is being platooned with Span. Rejoice ,because that’s all we are likely to get.
It’s the “platoon” part, I don’t like.
Sorry about that. Why did’t you show for the PFC?
Gorkys Span
Today is as must-win as it gets simply because of how close it is to a guaranteed win on the remaining schedule based on pitching matchup and the opposing team. Bumgarner on the mound against the Padres.
Bum’s last start comes against the Dodgers who will likely have clinched NL West by then but it comes against Kershaw and a Dodgers squad that will probably try to win all of their remaining games regardless, considering it will be Vin’s last few games left.
I think 87 is the number of wins needed to clinch a wild card spot this year. To get there, Giants would need to go 6-2 on the remaining schedule.
I think you’re right, but if any team starts playing good baseball–might need one or two more.
So what does it take for them to get shut out of the WC? Actually, it’s impossible to know-either way. it would be entirely possible to go 4 and 4 and still get in.
To your other point, there is zero way that Roberts lets Kershaw go more than 5 if division is already in hand.He might not let him go more than three.
All right folks. I’m out for the most part. Time for Volunteers football!
Well done Mr and Mrs Scully.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-vin-scully-dodgers-20160923-snap-story.html
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160923/video-vin-scully-tries-to-fight-back-tears-at-appreciation-day
Koufax is amazing to this day.
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160923/vin-scully-appreciation-night-turns-dodger-stadium-into-a-shrine
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/db5d6257574b2d4b1aec5c74dab2596fd5ce03a0409bcbd5c046697820ff2756.jpg
I see Gorkys Flemming is doing the Harbaugh game, so we’re running out Jon Span along with Duane Peavy and Mike Cain. They seem worn down.
You don’t think they’re immune to all this crap, do you? They’re as tired of crap baseball as we are.
I can hear it dripping from their voices….yup
Last night especially so. Miller went right to the edge when Adrianza and Gillaspie shut down a rally in three pitches. Kuip pretty transparent as well.
I guess that you didn’t hear Miller about Span’s throwing arm? You wouldn’t like it.
I think you were hearing them scarfing food while on the job
They have been on cruise control since February,
KNBR and the Giants are trying to get those guys going.
Until you said that, I didn’t even realize I’d been listening to Flemming.
I’d love to see a Padre throw one of these at MB tonight.
https://giphy.com/gifs/colbertlateshow-3oEjI2uMfmIAJ6V8kg
We could all use a good laugh, esp Bum.
1987 Stevie Ray Vaughan – “Voodoo”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZuRQ3q_eiw
Hello Clutch
Heard or seen Cousin Carsten Charles lately?
Righteous! Love SRV
Bumgarner and Cosart PreGame Notes
http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/4/0/0/203103400/9.24.16_at_SD_c5jvo48u.pdf
This Date in Giants History: September 24, 1968
The Giants beat the Astros, 5-4, with Willie Mays driving in three runs…Mays hit a solo homer in the first inning and drove in the tying and winning runs in the eighth with a perfect bunt…with runners on second and third base, Mays bunted and Astros third baseman Doug Rader attempted a barehanded pickup but missed
the ball.
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/BdjphdlCIAAqDLs.jpg
Young Vin, 1934.
Giants fan Vin, that is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_New_York_Giants_(MLB)_season#Roster
He was probably Gs’ roster- bating as this photo was being taken.
I’m most likely skipping tonight’s game to go to a bonfire. S’mores don’t let me down.
Be sure to eat some real food first.
does beer count?
If there’s a fly in it.
Get some while you’re there.
action? I think I’ll be a 7th wheel.
Take some weed, too!!!
I’m sure there is plenty to be found at OB.
Sounds like a plan. I’ll be going to a food festival.
Going to see “Phantasm”; the new version remastered on the big screen in Pittsburgh tonight. One of my fave movies ever. Never lets me down…ahem…
Ha, fun!
i’m staying home but if it gets too weird I’m switching over to watch Stanfoo sitck it to UCLA
On the post-game wrap last night, Kuip said he ran into Dick Enberg in the men’s restroom before the game. He said they’re both using the urinals, and Enberg says to Kuip, “Your team looks tired.” Kuip said he didn’t feel like talking about it so he just agreed. Then Miller said that while they were in L.A., he went to the restroom, and Flem walks in, then Vin Scully. Miller said that Scully looks around them and says, “Well, here we all are. Everybody take a urnial.” LOL.
Oh my.
they DO look tired — I can’t even remember the last time I saw them launch over the rail for an end of game celebration. have they even had a walk off this year with the team celebrating at home ? when was the last grand slam ? to me they look lost, tired, sad almost – i have no idea what is the matter with them and yet somehow they are still in it – albeit – hanging on by their fingernails
That’s my whole “something’s missing” confusion with this 2nd half.
We guess away on here… That upsets some on here, but it’s such a “WTF happened?” stretch, it’s legit to wonder
I agree – I’m curious as hell as to what happened to them – my imagination just works overtime thinking about all the weird combinations of people issues that could have brought this on. And while I appreciate that it truly is none of my business if this is a non-baseball thing like some personal health issue, dust-up involving relationships, money, hard feelings, even racial stuff…. I just really want to know what happened to my team !
Scout, Belt!
https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/779787984887435264
Whoa. Well, OK. This is better, anyway.
It’s not better so much as different than people expected. Hard to have confirmation bias here.
Well, when status quo is so clearly not working, I appreciate “different.” I like Belt up near the top of the order and I like Nunez and Panik up higher. Panik’s been swinging the bat better the last couple days.
Ah come on, maybe this works, but it’s based on seat of the pants logic. I wish I knew what was in the back pocket.
It’s not in, it’s under. It’s a dumbass.
Yeah, but you’re biased. What he’s done is stack them, more or less, by WAR. Now that is funny.
I thought Richard was pitching for SD? No Gorkys?
Never mind…
Still Pagan and Span in the lineup. Rather have Gorkys in CF and Spandex in LF
Nuñez created a run almost by himself the other night and he’s not leading off? When’s the last time Span did that?
Nunez is still in the NHG list
??
Not His Guy
This is the one thing I just cannot figure out either, how Nunez doesn’t get at least a week or something at lead off. Give him a chance!
GG’s Florida Gators chomping all over my Tennessee Volunteers. Vols are playing terrible football, and Florida is strong. As Kuip would say…this I’d not good, folks.
21-3 Gators at the half.
It’s not over yet.
Seinfeld and Costanza
http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/george-costanza-the-over-cheer
https://i.imgur.com/inbPm36.png
Anybody want to speculate on why?
https://i.imgur.com/i19yaXH.png
By that logic, Panik ought to bat #2
Bob should lead-off
No, he really shouldn’t I think. He ought to be sitting if Crawford were playing/.
Only because AD is so slow on DPs
Not from 2B.
I agree,he’s had some pretty good swings lately .He must be the hot hand.
Flem doing the Michigan game for ESPN
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