By Dr Lefty
It takes a special kind of awful to out-awful the 2017 Philadelphia Phillies, yet the Giants showed some unique creativity last night. As Bochy put it in his postgame comments, when you give up a three-run homer and a grand slam, it’s hard to win that game. And yet…the Giants could have. They had two early leads. They scored five runs in the bottom of the ninth. They had several other early rallies where they squandered opportunities. But they scored nine runs and lost…and that’s the THIRD time they’ve done so in 2017. An abysmal, inept offense has actually scored nine runs three times and LOST. It’s a special talent, man.
So, OK. Let’s review the villains and heroes of what ended up being both an entertaining and infuriating game.
Villains (Long List)
Ty Blach
Second bad start in a row for him, and they’ve looked about the same. While you can’t get too mad at him for serving one up to a red-hot Giancarlo Stanton, there are no passes for Rhys Hoskins, even if he did play for Sac State (Go Hornets!). Blach can’t pitch from behind very well. When he’s on, he doesn’t get behind much, but the last two outings he’s had more trouble with command and then he makes mistakes and gets punished for them. That was a BAD pitch to Hoskins.
Josh Osich and Cory Gearrin
They were both so bad that they each deserve their own subheading, but I don’t have the stomach for it. Osich is just bad, and the Giants need to give up on him. It’s time. Grant Brisbee had some pointed comments about Osich in his postgame piece. Yeah, the stuff. Whatever. The results are awful and we’re almost through two full seasons of awful. Get Okert back, take a look at D.J. Snelten in September, but there must be a new lefty reliever or two (depending on how Smith comes back) in the mix before next season. As for Gearrin, he’s not quite as bad and he’s had some good moments, but that’s two nights in a row he’s come in and allowed every single inherited runner to score, five in total. And he gave up another grand slam, like he did less than three weeks ago–wait, what?! Sorry. That was actually George Kontos, who was gone four days later. Gearrin has now allowed 58% of his inherited runners to score (19/33). That is a freakin’ train wreck. The funny part, of course, is that his own ERA is only 2.19. Hahahahaha. Anyway, Gearrin is into his arbitration years now and is making a bit over $1 million. If they offer him arbitration again, he’ll make more. He’s not worth it. They should move on and look at some younger guys. More on this in a minute.
Bruce Bochy
Blach wasn’t especially “on” last night, but he went into the sixth inning tied, and the go-ahead run wasn’t entirely his fault. More on this in a minute, too. But here comes Bochy with the immediate hook, and his great idea is to bring in Osich and Gearrin to put the game hopelessly (well, not quite) out of reach before the inning was over. He wouldn’t have treated Bum or Cueto or Samardzija that way; he would have let them try to work through the inning just one run down and still have the chance to get off the hook or even get a win (it was the Phillies, and there was a pretty good chance the Giants were going to score more before the game was over). I keep harping on this, but when the Giants offloaded Kontos a couple weeks ago, it was ostensibly so that they could give reps to younger guys in high-leverage situations. Indeed, this is what Bochy said the day Kontos was dump–I mean, traded:
Manager Bruce Bochy said Kontos was a casualty of the Giants’ last-place season. “You look at our situation, there’s some young players who are going to get the chance to show what they can do,” he said. “This goes with the territory of our struggles. We need to find out about some players, see what we need to do this winter.”
Two weeks later, no “young players” have been called up or gotten “the chance to show what they can do.” Kyle Crick has appeared in two games, most recently in a blowout win. As he did when Kontos was still here, Bochy just keeps going to the same guys he trusts, no matter how untrustworthy they have shown themselves to be.
Denard Span
Don’t worry; he’ll also get his moment in the “Heroes” section, too. But it was definitely the best and the worst of times for Span. His misplay of Rupp’s routine fly ball in the sixth opened the floodgates that led to the seven-run deluge. After hitting a clutch two-out RBI single, he promptly was picked off first with Pence up, two on, and two out, killing the rally with the Giants’ hottest hitter at the plate. At the time, the Giants were up 3-1, but you somehow knew all that was going to come back and bite them. Span definitely is still a major league hitter; his OPS of .757 is solid if not spectacular, and his OPS+ is just below league average at 99. But he’s a bad base runner and he’s unbelievably terrible in the outfield. Whatever you may think about advanced stats such as Defensive Runs Saved (Span is at -22, which is by far the worst in the majors), the eye test confirms it.
Now, the fact that Span is an OK hitter, a bad base runner, and a terrible outfielder is not new information. But what really bothered me was his smug complacency about it. He was all happy about his inside-the-park home run (which needs an asterisk) and didn’t care at all that his poor play helped his team lose. I can appreciate, I guess, that when you’re on a really bad team that’s heading nowhere this season, you’d focus just on yourself and your good moments. But being quite so blatant about it is a bit unseemly.
The official scorer
I’m sorry. Inside-the-park home runs are fun, but that should have been scored a triple and an error. The right fielder kicked the ball away from himself and the center fielder. That’s not just a crazy bounce–that’s an outfielder physically making it impossible to make a play. Here’s Schulman’s report on the scorer’s explanation:
Scorer Jim Young: RF missing then kicking ball not a physical misplay because it resulted from an odd carom that eluded him. #SFGiants
— Henry Schulman (@hankschulman) August 20, 2017
Translation: I’m calling it a home run because I have to watch the Phillies play the Giants and I deserve for something fun to happen. And inside-the-park homers are fun! Here are some of the other recent ones hit by Giants: Kelby Tomlinson in 2015, Aubrey Huff in 2010, Conor Gillaspie in 2011, and, of course, Pagan’s walk-off in 2013.
Heroes (Shorter List)
Denard Span
Did I mention that ITPHRs are fun? And that’s a great way to get the home crowd into the game with a nice, happy jolt. And there was his two-run, two-out single after Eickhoff had loaded the bases for free, including a gritty AB by pitcher Blach. It was looking like a nice night for Denard…and then he got picked off. And then…see “Villains.”
Pablo Sandoval
Pablo had a nice game at the plate, his second in a row. His throwing error was largely a function of Not-Belt at first base, and Blach did pitch around that one. Anyway, he and Span were, oddly, the only Giants in the game with two hits, even though they scored nine runs. (The Phillies were generous with walks, a hit batsman, and errors.)
Kelby Tomlinson
Kelby was on base four times and drove in the tying run in the fourth with a nice opposite field single.
Albert Suarez
Three innings of mop-up duty, one run allowed, seven strikeouts. If only he’d been the go-to guy when Blach was pulled in the sixth…Albert’s a young guy still (younger than Osich and Gearrin, anyway) who deserves “a chance to show” what he can do, isn’t he, Boch?
Bench Guys
Gorkys and Calixte stayed ready and actually contributed to the late-inning rally. Calixte also showed off that slick glove at SS that I’ve seen several times in Sacramento.
Fixing the Bullpen
I know this game upset me because I literally dreamed about it. I dreamed I was watching the game, Span did something bad, and I was mad about it. So I woke up in the middle of the night and started thinking about my blog post. There’s not a whole lot I can do about Span, though if I were in charge, I’d put Parker or Gorkys in CF, stat. But then I thought about how bad the bullpen was (except for Suarez) last night and started doing roster moves in my head to try to get myself back to sleep. Here’s what I came up with.
Who they need to jettison
I already mentioned that Osich and Gearrin need to go. Osich can be optioned. Gearrin–whatever.
Who they need to look at
This list includes players already on the roster who should get more air time and some who should be, either immediately or on September 1.
- Kyle Crick
- Albert Suarez
- Derek Law
- Steven Okert
- Reyes Moronta
- D.J. Snelten
- Tyler Rogers
Roster moves
- option Osich, DFA Gearrin (or trade him for nothing like Kontos if anyone wants him)
- call up Okert and Law immediately (both on the 40-man)
- on Sept 1, call up Moronta (already on the 40-man)
- add Snelten and Rogers to the 40-man and call them up Sept. 1 when rosters can expand
- shut down Melancon for the season and put him on the 60-day DL (there’s one 40-man spot)
- put Chase Johnson on the 60-day DL (there’s your other 40-man spot)
Now, I’m not saying that all/most/any of these bullpen guys are going to pan out for the future. But I don’t see the harm in trying something new at this point. And don’t worry: If they want to call up Shaw or Andrew Suarez, there are still 40-man moves that can be made (e.g., put Morse on the 60-day DL; put Arroyo on the 60-day DL, etc.).
Today’s Game
Bumgarner goes for the season series win vs. the Phillies (the two teams are 3-3 in the Futility World Series, and we know Bum likes Game 7). In honor of the tens of thousands who came together, mostly peacefully, in Boston yesterday, I’ll take us out with an early 60s folk duo, Joe and Eddie, from their 1964 album Coast to Coast. Lefty out.
Who is this person Breckeroni? New to the board. Thanks.
You put your question in EXACTLY the right place.
Breckeroni is the blog ghost. This person would carefully monitor the old Extra Baggs blog, and when a new main post went up, he’d type “FIRST”. No other remarks, there or later in the blog. No one knows what happened to the original Breckeroni, but his spirit lingers on. The best Breckeroni comes when the stand-in is as humerous as possible.
Clutch Up once said Breckeroni was “the anthem”. I like that a lot.
Wally Pipp also ghost like.
When I was new to the blog I probably replied “lame” to Breckeroni and was quickly shamed.
Speaking of which, anyone know Clutch’s status on the DL.
Ask Lloyd
Nahh, you think?
Matthew posted a short update last post. Taking a break from negativity. Always a wise choice.
You like Bradley Zimmer?
Welcome!
It’s a tradition that will never die. It should be changed to Freddy Krueger .
You’re a tradition that should never die Michael Scott.
I’ve decided to conquer the final challenge.
Getting rubber duckies to lay fertile eggs??
1) who knows? It will take more than a handful of ABs to see if he can stay up with the team.
2) it’s surprising but Sharks was astronomical to start the season, he’s been pitching great and still has a high era.
3) sure why not, he’s a free swinger and guys like that get really hot when they are on but cool off just as fast.
4) first Trout will never be traded. Second, I’d take Yelich in a hot second and I like the Phils Herrera.
5) es muy bueno
Wanted to say Yelich
On radio down here in hell. They are taking Kershaw as greatest pitcher in a 100 years.
I think he needs to win the WS to even be in the top 10.
What do you guys think?
Well, he’s pretty darned good, but of course he is a Dodger. Darned tooting Madison Bumgarner is better than Kershaw – just count the rings.
That’s no correct. Bum is really good but he is not Kershaw level.
Again he just has not played on a great team.
So Javy is better than MadBum?
I don’t agree. One of the announcers a few days ago on ESPN mentioned guys like Karl Malone who never won but is considered one of the top three power forwards ever. He just ran into MJ in the finals.
Kershaw is the best pticher of this generation PERIOD! He is in the top 5-10 over the past 50 years.
Fans get hung up on rings.
Thumbs up about modern fans rating players based on rings in team sports, Bonds and Kent and McCovey, are worse then Blanco, Panik and Belt, because they never won rings .
I’ll need to see those McCovey/Blanco splits again.
That is called the Straw Man. You set up something no one has said and then knock it down. Take a breath and think about this, that I actually am saying:
The Teams that Bonds, Kent and McCovey were on were worse than the Teams that Blanco, Panik and Belt were on.
You Wiccan secret agent. You apostle of Dadaism. 😉
No, most of those teams won more games, then the 2010 ,2012, 2014 Giants .
The worst teams in the league were much worse in the 60s. The bad teams of the 2010s are much better than bad teams of the 60s. Parity wasn’t a thing then. Management is smarter, no drunken GM meeting trades, fewer buddies given office jobs, etc. Who cares about team record once the postseason happens.
You still do not get it, luck plays lots tp do with rings, the Brookes Conrad’s of the world, in bigger sample size, the 60s Giants and the late 90s early 2000s Giants won way more games then the Giants of the 2010, 2012,and 2014
Luck can get you one WS but not Three in Five years.
I loved watching Bonds, Kent, McCovey, Clark, Marichal, etc. but sadly they never were on a team with the whole package put together.
Nobody has ever said this, Petey. You should try alcohol, I can’t imagine it killing off many brain cells.
Promising research going on with psilocybin and lsd.
He’s probably the best pitching currently, but greatest in 100 years. Bob Gibson might argue. They had to lower the mound in baseball to slow him down. That 1968 season of Gibson’s was simply deep shade for Kershaw.
Even MadBum doesn’t ‘win” the WS.
The top ten?
Neither.
I think it’s the usual drivel. Gross hyperbole. He’s a fine pitcher, despite not having won the big games. Is he the greatest in 100 years? Uh, no. No, he’s not. Is he in the Top 10 of the greatest pitchers in the last 100 years. No, I don’t think he is. Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Steve Carlton, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Satchel Paige, Mariano Rivera, Jim Palmer, Juan Marichal all better. That’s not counting Christy Mathewson or Cy Young. And not counting steroid king Roger Clemens or Nolan Ryan, both of whom were probably better than Kershaw. Even Oral Hershiser was better than Kershaw. Drysdale was better too. Yeah, Kershaw is pretty good, one of the best of today, but let’s not get carried away. The guy hasn’t won even one WS yet.
People, isn’t the OF situation Slater/Calixte much simpler than you think? It seems good for a guy making the AAA–>MLB jump to play a few days a week, not every day like they tried to pull off with Arroyo. With Pence back, shouldn’t we expect to see both Slater and Calixte get a few chances, sharing LF, and also see them spell Pence once in a while in RF? I think the Giants will be playing them both. Easy, peasy, no?
sounds about right to me.
It’s probably good for utes to sit watch and learn and allow game to slow down and for the magnitude of the atmosphere to sink in.
Chase Anderson is a change up expert and has been in a groove, iirc. That’s often a kiss of death for giants lineup and I do believe the stats and the eyes bear that out.
Slater may have an Ofer
Ed McMahon says…
ED also says…
Good question, I’m feeling George Springer at the moment.
Solid
Calixte=Gorkys
no
No what?
What base was he on again?
What are you replying to?
Your invocation of Abbott and Costello.
For future reference:
https://i.imgur.com/DQt48Ka.png
I’ll file it.
Who’s in RF would be a great trivia question.
first base
Somehow got me thinking about this great Peanuts.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/531c9a1b5b18e8e4a1882c59d04ba34c4eb4418536388c8b4000fa8b39b5f0e6.jpg
No sir
I kind of like “No Sirree’
Gorkys can’t play SS
How did it work out? Sorry, same guy.
Am I a bad fan if I pick up opposing pitchers going against the Giants in my fantasy leagues?
You in first place?
3rd in both leagues, working my way up 😉
Your a bad fan for playing fantasy baseball period .
I’ve never heard that statement before, how do you figure?
It’s a joke, more power to you, I am not interested in fantasy sports, prefer the real thing, I also never gamble either are drink ,so I am different then most sports fans in that way .
Ah I hear you, I’ve actually found that fantasy has helped me appreciate more than just the teams I an fans of. Makes me more in tune to players all around the league, minor league stars, etc. I don’t play for much money, just enjoy the game and playing with friends.
That’s why I play also Panda.
You’re a realist. But a caution, performance against the Giant’s LU isn’t a very good method of ID’ing pitching talent.
I’m glad other people like Javi as well. I watched the 7-9th innings of yesterday’s game when I got home yesterday and I like his tone and sound. I also like the look of the Milwaukee ballpark, looks good on tv. Anyone been there?
Surf has
If anything, he’s monotonal.
he is, but calm, even soothing.
I don’t dislike him. He’s just watching his p’s and q’s. He’ll probably relax and loosen up as time goes on.
Yeah, I think he will need to learn how to emote more, and Affelt will have to learn how to calm down.
They need to give Affeldt a pocket knife to play with.
He is enamored with “great”.A 6 hopper is not a great piece of hitting.But I like him.
Yes, once. Unfortunately the Giants lost. My friends got tickets pretty high up, so all I remember is the stadium can open and close on the fly, even with people in seats – that is handy in Milwaukee esp. the early season.
The coolest thing is that they did the usual deal, where you build the new stadium in the parking spot, and after switching tear down the old stadium to pave for parking. But what they did was make a little league sized field out of the original diamond, and let the teams play there before a game. My friend’s son once had the chance to do that, “right where Hank Aaron came up to bat”. Nifty, IMO.
1. Hopefully he does well. I see a little Aaron Rowand in his batting stance, though I’ve seen too little of him to say big things about him.
2. Good for Cain. Hopefully it continues, and if it does, it bodes well for the G’s because Samardzija’s been lights out lately
3. Yup, he did this with the Twins last year as well. As soon as Twins were basically out of it after their 0 for whatever start, he started raking. Stay hot and net us a few prospects Eduardo!
4. Adam Jones. He’s a winner and he plays with an edge that I just love to see in any athlete no matter what the sport is. Another one is George Springer. Perfect leadoff hitter, with nice balance of power and contact ability. Great athleticism.
5. He fits rights in. He’s a natural, just seems comfortable in there.
Rowand has left such a bad taste in my memory. There was discussion lately about 33 and all I could think of is that goofy stance and no chance at any slider.
This is no debating Gorkys has had a rough yr, but it would be kind of fun interesting to go back into the archives and see what reaction he was getting last yr, when in his first 13 games, he was 10/28, w/ 2hrs and 3 doubles, producing a line of .357/.379/.679.
He finished with a .259/.298/.761ops, in 26 games, which I believe is still better than that of any guy they have auditioned this year, including boy wonder.
When the opposition figures you out in MLB, it’s a brutal experience if you can’t adjust. The curse of film and scouting.
Probably was pegged Lucky Hernandez. But some of these guys this year never showed anything to begin with.
I’d give them time, and another shot myself. I think Posey hit around the Mendoza during his first pass through majors.
I have pointed out his contributions last year,,many times,
I said early on I thought he’d be a passable replacement for Blanco. He went in the dumper right afterwards. 🙂
I liked Gorkys on the team as the 5th OF. I wanted better, but was fine with it. I am not fine with Gorkys: Regular starter, or Gorkys: Still on the 40 man.
Respectable 2016. Not the worst for a 25th man. Calixte and Tomlinson not bad either. Maybe Tommy best of three?
Giants/Brewers vs Comey hearings Thurs am. My DVR will be busy.
I sure like Charlie Blackmon and Kevin Pillar.
Trump threatens to live tweet it. Split screen, and popcorn.
“Trump threatens to live tweet it.”
One can hope.
1600 is madly filling his schedule. They’re drawing straws for slamming his thumb in a car door.
He’ll be watching because he doesn’t remember what they said.
Blackmon an excellent choice! I wonder how good Margot will be.
Pretty good, I think.
How the Brewers got Travis Shaw is a perfect example of the type of player the Giants can get in a trade if they decide to move Belt. Shaw is arguably having a better year than Belt and seems to be a team leader, something we have never heard mentioned about Belt.
Some dumbass GM out there must have the same overvalued sense that Belt is somehow a lil’ luck away from being better. That is a GM we need to fleece for some good young talent.
Belt will make 17.2 Million a year for 4 years starting in 2018, that will be a hard contract to move, with his production this year .
I mentioned how stupid it would be to sign him for too many years given the Posey question and the fact he is not as good as many Giants fans assume or think he is. He just isn’t. The stat guys love to build him up but it just doesn’t always materialize.
If he was so freakin’ good then he would be more consistent at the plate, higher average, be more of a catalyst, which he is not.
Nothing about him him shows any leadership for a guy who has been around, now on team needing such fire and influence.
Mmmmmm dig that career 102 wRC+. That’s team leading stuff right there!
1) Bait hook with inflammatory rhetoric
2) Throw in some more insult, just to make sure you catch something.
3) Sit back and enjoy people responding to your trolls.
Most of TWG is on to you. If you’d just talk baseball–balanced and reasonable–you’d be an outstanding member of our little community. Just saying, E.
Interesting article about defensive metric and using them to project future performance. About the only guy who just about met his 1/3 season to full season projection was Brandon Crawford. Consistently good. I think this is the first blush of building a case for his earning another GG.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-annual-reminder-about-defensive-metrics/
1) 0-4
2) No. should have known. As Phil Rizzuto often wrote on his score card: WL, for wasn’t looking.
3) Yes. He’s seeing the ball well and hitting in front of Belt and Posey means he’ll see better pitches.
4) Charlie Blackmon, my MVP thus far.
5) Outstanding. Far better than Affeldt. I’m a big Affeldt fan (as a player and a man), but Javi is better at analysis.
Harper will walk away with MVP.
Perhaps. He’s also had a great year thus far. Still appx 100 games left to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xkQF8-cxyc
Not sure if anyone has brought this team up as a landing spot for Cueto: ASTROS
They are in the hunt for pitching and have been linked to Sonny Grey and Quintana.
They are looking like the Royals of a few years back and last years Cubs, winning at a torrid pace. Cueto can play on an AL team, be closer to the DR and be on a team with great Latino talent and one that will play deep into the Fall.
Add to that the Stros have talent up and down the minors.
Not sure? You haven’t been reading.
I’ve missed a few days. What there a proposal provided.
I’m sure someone suggested Altuve and Springer.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Could wind with prospect by name of Derek Fisher. Tearing up PCL. His floor could be Jarret Parker, but could be more Joc Pederson, possibly better.
as long as he doesn’t date ex teammates wives, cool
I’d bet a smaller budget team like Houston won’t want to risk it with Cueto and his contract.
tell me…..how many WS rings to the Astros have?
There will be other options besides Cueto.
but Cueto has a recent proven track record in the play offs. He can be the difference plus be a clubhouse addition to mesh with all that Latino talent.
All that makes a huge difference.
They have to go all-in this year. Much like the Cubs did last year. Giants can take advantage of that like the Yanks did to re-stockpile their farm system.
I think the Cubs have a much larger revenue than Houston.
I tried to trade Cueto to my mother the Cubs fan this week, but all she offered in return was Kyle Schwarber.
I had mentioned that a few days ago. It’s the perfect fit for him on a number of accounts. And I could see the Astros wanting him for the final run. Ive picked the Astos to win the AL. Also, the Giants can gain the most out of a trade with the Astros as they are in a great position to acquire him. They won’t get anybody off their roster but if Evans plays it right, can get some top prospects out of the deal. Don’t particularly want to see Cueto go, but looks like there’s an opportunity in there to be had.
I knew that Slater is the 10th different guy to start in LF this year and the 12th to play there, but Baggarly posted the list of how many starts each guy has made in LF, and that DID surprise me.
The two leaders are…the Opening Day 3B (Nunez, 17) and the Opening Day 1B (Belt, 10). #3, with nine starts in LF, is the long-gone Chris Marrero. Wow!
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/06/giants-revolving-door-in-left-field-reaches-10-starters-but-jarrett-parker-makes-progress-toward-a-return/
Yeah, people yelling on the Radio, that they were right, Parker and Williamson sucked ,and the Giants should trade for Yelich are Stanton, like they can do that, Parker and Williamson have hardly played for the Giants this year .
well they DO suck, enough of the excuses about being given a fair chance.
You are an idiot ! and they never got the Arroyo chance, not even close !
no……YOU’RE AN IDIOT.
Dude, relax.
Don’t be upset that they are not legitimate ML starting OFs. Just are not.
Arroyo is a different monster, he is young and will be back up. Just needs a reboot.
Somewhere, Travis Ishikawa is pounding his glove.
Fontenot loosening up.
Woulda been a lot easier just to keep Gregor Blanco.
He was hurt, and has hardly played for Arizona, but do not let the facts get in the way, 1 RBI and a .672 OPS, he would have fit in well with the Giants .
Ever hear the expression “disagree without being disagreeable”? You see lots of it on this blog.
Making a point, sometimes you have to be harsh, when someone is way wrong .
No. No you don’t. Let your point stand on it’s own. I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say, but then I dismiss it because you always throw in an insult or two. In other words, when you’re harsh, I don’t listen.
That’s your prerogative, lots of bias on this blog, and people with different ways to do things, saying the facts do not support her post is not an insult in my opinion, but maybe you are softer then me, 14 siblings toughened me up .
4 siblings broke my spirit
I guess, I had the benefit, of being the moma boy of the family , my mom spoiled me, even took me to little league games in a taxi, when my siblings wanted a dog, they asked me to ask mom, and she said yes .
Very lucky indeed.
That’s a nice story!
Little league games in a taxi? I would have given you shit for that.
I’d trade anyone but Bum, Posey, and Crawford. And retire Boch and Sabes.
How will Austin Slater do in his return to the starting line up? He won’t over throw the hot dog vendor.
Did you know going into last night’s game Matt Cain’s ERA was lower than Smarge’s? Yes. For sure. What do you take me for? Oh.
Will Eduardo Nunez continue to rake? He’d better unless we want Houston’s 7th best mid-level prospect.
If you could grab any center fielder other than Mike Trout in a trade who would it be? Bob Muskellunge.
How do you rate Javy Lopez as a color commentator?? Fine. Low bar.
Lorenzo Cain. I’m not greedy.
Billy Hamiton
Ha! I love watching the guy play but I don’t want him on my team.
Yeah, him too.
slappy
Ain’t it grand.
Perfect skill set for our park.
I love that type of player but they break too often.
Could anyone actually get to a ball in ‘the alley’ fast enough to hold him to a triple.
Barry Bonds was perfect for are Park, so was Jeff Kent, you just bought into the propaganda on this blog .
And I’d be fine with putting Barry out in LF right now.
I was just making a joke. But you are right. He has good tools for our ballpark and our style of play.
style of play, last in almost every offensive category, must be the wrong style of play .
Bochy has promised to give him two ABs to make something happen.
Enjoy the game.
You too! Thanks for the list.
I wonder how many of us will find a way to disagree with your post?
The Giants have been so bad that Melancon is on a pace to throw less than 50 innings. In the previous four seasons, he never threw less than 71.
Oh my, let me write that down.
Such a waste of money. I seriously doubt they trade him. They’re in this thing!
People were saying Gorkys played well last season. He took 54 ABs for the Giants in 2016. He did well in the first 28. Over the last 26, he hit .154/.213/.241/.445. Sound familiar? It was foolish of the Giants to count on him for anything.
Michael Scott likes that type of player, and lot of regulars on here do too , the Blanco, Juan Perez types, are popular on this blog, defense over valued on this blog .
You should change “this blog” to TWG. Easier to type, and it’s who we are.
I liked Blanco because he was good at baseball. A fool would think otherwise.
I watch Gorkys and I see potential for a 250/.280/.320 hitter. Just got to use him the right way.
You mean in AAA?
The sad truth is that we were so relieved to have ANY alternative to Denard Span that Gorkys looked good then.
Span looking good as leadoff hitter lately. Funny how much difference a year can make.
AJ Pollock is a winner too. Has hard time staying on field though. Just now resuming running.
no 4-3 this time.
That had to be the slowest DP turn I’ve ever seen.
Two “speedsters” on the bases and a slowish chopper to third ends up as DP. SMH
Ha. You noticed that too. I thought maybe they just woke up. Unbelievable.
Anyone else having trouble with the sound on the broadcast (NBCS-BA)?
Buster with the awesome laser on display.
You have to pick that up Belt. Come on, dude
A new website is born. https://michaelmoore.com/TrumpiLeaks/
Can’t stand Michael Moore.
He’s heartbroken. Email him the news.
Nice hat.
I’m not a big fan, either, but I will say that his movie last year, “Where to Invade Next,” was excellent–interesting, fun to watch, and actually upbeat and inspiring.
I’m not particularly politically motivated in such matters other than hoping for the best from those that possess the power to make tough and strong decisions, but I gotta say, no MM fan here. I’ll leave it at that.
It’s funny. Especially if Sessions resigns this week.
I’m sure glad you find it safe to continue to post your side of politics constantly.
Are you?
No
OK.
I interrupt this political debate, Game on , Giants behind, Cain gives up long ball .
If the Brewers score 1 run, in the old days I’d be really pissed about it. But we have to score at least 1, and if we can’t score 1, they deserve to win 1-0. Buts that’s all moot now. Now I’m pissed about the hole we’re digging.
When did Eric Sogard become the best hitter in MLB
, wow just wow .
When the Giants come to town, it’s Sogard, Baby
He got jobbed out of the Face of MLB contest a few years ago .
Cains road ERA coming in was 8.28. Now let up 4 in 1 2/3. My UNIVAC 9000 has exploded trying to compute his road ERA
I don’t know if they’ve said it on TV yet, but on the radio they just announced that the Giants have acquired reliever Sam Dyson from the Rangers. 38 saves last year, 10.80 ERA this year.
He was great in WBC this year, throws hard .
To replace Strickland?
Definitely has stuff
Oh wow. Yup, looks like it’s official.
https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/872245808518668288
I’m not sure what the point is. Maybe they think they can rehab him and he can take over as closer when Melancon is traded.
Gonna throw BP to Gorkys to give one of them potential confidence
I like a funny post!
Or just a serviceable bullpen piece who can get quick outs in late innings
I think it’s a mental issue with him. Few mechanical fixes with Righetti and hopefully he’ll regain his form last year. Not a bad gamble to take
How does what you wrote make any sense?
Which part doesn’t make sense to you? I’ll be happy to elaborate
You say it is mental and then say that he will get mechanical help? Isn’t mechanics physical not mental?
Yeah, but when your ERA is 10.80, it’s probably both. I was saying his issues are more mental than anything but he likely needs to make some changes to his pitching mechanics as well
Even when he was doing well, his numbers weren’t that great.
2014: 2.14 ERA 1.33 WHIP
2015: 2.63 ERA 1.14 WHIP
2016: 2.43 ERA 1.22 WHIP 38 Saves
Not bad for someone we could be getting for just cash considerations.
No, not bad, but Strickland-like, as Foothills said.
Nope, they are in the selling tickets business, and are telling customers like Surf Maui, were still trying to win, like you posted earlier, they think they are close, delusional as that sounds .
Seattle still has our PTBNL. Maybe Texas will tell us his name?
Any chance we can pawn Kontos off on them?
Wow this is pointless. Are other teams broken toys more valuable than literally anybody in the minors? Or let me guess, Bochy still views this guy as a “proven closer”.
Could be insurance for the future if they trade Melancon.
You don’t have to guess,you know. Evans is now doing what Bochy wants apparently, we’ll know for sure when Dyson appears on the SF 40 man roster.
10.8 ERA will fit in perfectly in our bullpen
They might be adopting my Embrace the Disgrace theme.
What did we give up?
Cash considerations?
More than $100?
2 AT&T beers and a crab sandwich….
Which is close to $100
Not sure about that.
It says cash or player to be named later.
Looney bucks.
Really? He has reminded me of Strickland
With ir without the boxing gloves?
He does throw very hard without having impressive strikeout numbers.
So instead of crick, it will be Dyson
Fucking typical
My exact thought when I first heard.
Why?
I went to radio. Being a witness is too painful.
It’s the shaft move. Miller and Flem offer more frequent entertainment and you can do something else meanwhile
It’s a low bar, with bad whiskey.
“smart” got auto-corrected
Im at Finnerty’s. “Crowd” is in an ugly mood.
They were half lethargic when I was there. Kinda disappointed
yes it’s a Dubs bar for now!
(to be fair it start off as a Niner bar before the Giants won in 2010)
not too much to get excited about
I was hoping people would be more talkative or emotive, even with the bad plays. Oh well, at least I had some watermelon beer even though they should really think about adding watermelon slices to it for the authentic SF feel.
The Swedish sisters First Aid Kit getting the jingle on that Volkswagen commercial. That’s what this season is doing to me. You notice the commercials. Not good.
For all the Hard contact stat geeks, Ahmed Fareed just tweeted out a video explaining, that Matt Cain is allowing more hard contact at Home then on the road, but way more ground balls at home then on the road, so is pitching way better at home .
Where you’re most consistently wrong, is thinking that the people you disagree with only judge a player on one specific stat.
Gotta love landing at SFO and being bombarded by crappy at bat notifications upon turning off airplane mode 🙄
Glad ya made it back safely, Peaches. Juniors cheesecake fo life.
Thanks ❤️ I think I’m still stuffed!
Not Cain’s best, but IMHO it’s still the inconsistency of the offense that is the bigger bummer. The tone-setting first two batters: Span works a tremendous at bat, making the pitcher throw a couple of 3-2 pitches before stroking a single. Then, Nunez steps in. Take s pitch? Work the count? Get the pitcher in a stressful high pitch count inning? No. Swing at everything. GIDP and within four pitches after a lead off single, the inning is over with nothing to show.
It’s weird that Nunez leads the team in GIDP. You’d expect one of the slower guys.
Most teams don’t have a guy batting .237 in the three hole.
Bingo!
Most teams aren’t in the midst of setting a record for the worst team batting average in the 134 year history of their franchise.
NO! did Matt Williams teach this dark age blog , that the MLB average on the 1st pitch is .330 .
That is some weak reasoning for a Cain apologist.
Sure the Giants are the best hitting team but you just took it out on the guy who is the best hitter on the team right now. Everyone knows Nunez is a free swinger, you can’t change a hitter from who he is as a hitter.
I quite agree! Cain was awful and he’s likely to remain that way. I think we’re accumulating too much evidence that, post-surgically, he just doesn’t have it.
Sam Dyson…F**k You Evans. Jesus H. That’s the best you could do?
Here is the description of Dyson’s last outing from ESPN
“This trade comes after Texas designated him for assignment Friday, per the Associated Press (h/t ESPN.com). The move followed a disastrous showing Wednesday when Dyson allowed two home runs and three runs in the 10th inning of Texas’ loss to the Tampa Bay Rays, marking his sixth loss of the season to go with four blown saves in four chances.”
Giants now have two pitchers in their bullpen who have given up two home runs in an one inning in their last outing
Thanks Surf. My f***ing head hurts even more (fighting a cold). Bobby Evans, you’re a mother f***ing genius.
I don’t think it’s been said yet whether he’s joining the 25 man roster.
Sounds like they have an internal competition going: how bad can we make this bull pen???
Bring back Neil Ramirez and it will be a trifecta
Seriously? What the…? We are doomed.
At least Law’s 2 HR’s let up were both solo shots
Working hard to solidify that #1 pick in the draft.
Bad footwork and he’s out…
Slater remains 1 for 2017 continuing the Parker, Mararro, Hernandez, Williamson, left field tradition
He’s had his 10 ABs…next!
And 1 hit– next
You’re channeling Bochy.
He is Bochies biggest fan, CC and Clutch are tough completion but he takes the cake .
Yes- play all the great “prospects” we have in left field. They sure are productive. What is this little league where everyone gets a participation trophy and we have to boost their confidence by sending them out to fail?
Now THAT … is funny. And so true.
What do you expect to happen if they play one of the other choices out there, a pennant drive?
He is waiting on Melvin the savior !
Bochy is giving them but just a taste of the big boy clubhouse spreads hoping that when they eventually go back to Sac, they’ll have tasted enough big league that the hunger will drive them back here meaner than ever. Nothing tougher than a mean and hungry ball player.
These are supposed to be professionals. Pro sports is a very tough business. You either produce or you are gone. Yes they need a fair shot, but I for one am sick of the play them anywY– and yes if you have a proven record of producing you get more slack than someone who never has proven they can produce. That’s the way this operates.
And why Adam Duvall is going to have another 30 HR, 100 RBI season while playing LF for another team.
Why arent we talking about the Orlando Cepeda– Ray Sadecki trade
What you’re echoing is the philosophy that allowed Duvall to get away. Requiring immediate production makes no sense for a team as bad as the Giants.
That trade was made to fill a perceived need to try to win the pennant. Unfortunately you have to give up sonething to get something. So we should never trade a young “prospect” to try to win now. Seriously? Absurd
I’m sure a study of the numbers will confirm that Duvall didn’t get a “fair chance.” But I remember him coming up and struggling more than succeeding. At the plate and in the field.
I also remember that when we made the trade, no one much cared about losing him. We needed a starter and we all thought Leake was the guy. Turned out he wasn’t.
Stuff happens.
And in the end, too much stuff like that results in bad teams.
Bad teams that won three WS with far less “talent” than the teams they beat
That’s in the past. Nice to remember, but no longer relevant to what’s happening now.
Or maybe the AJ Pierzynski for Nathan, Liriano and others as well, IIRC. I put that one ahead of Cepeda-Sadecki.
I’m channelling “can’t we get someone out there who can get a hit.” If you eliminate Belt and Nunez starts in LF I’d bet that Giants left fielders combined have to be the worst productive position of any team in baseball
It’s been firmly established that Hernandez can’t hit. Slater may not be able to either, but there’s no way anyone can say that after a handful of ABs. The team is going nowhere this year, so there’s no good reason not to reasonable look at any young guys who have a chance. Right now, Slater is that guy.
There are multiple ways to wreck a player– one is to play them before they are ready. I agree that 10 at bats is no indication, but the at bats havent shown much either
He’s 24 years old. It’s now or never.
But at least he got his one hit in front of his parents and sister.
Mays was 0 for 20, lucky Leo, had more patience then you .
Actually I think it was 0-12. But that was Willie Mays — not Austin Slater
1 for 10 is better then 0 for 12, and he would never become the Willie Mays if Leo had your patience for young players .
Good arithmetic, but seriously?
Yes seriously, I have noticed your distain for young players, why would Mays be different !
I have a disdain for crappy players. Young and touted doesnt equal production. And thus far– except for some very key hits by Arroyo– none of them has produced or shown that they ever will. They have to force their way into the lineup. Not get it by default.
Austin Slater is clearly better than Willie Mays. What’s the matter with you?
They are already getting his statue ready in front of ATT
PJ would tell you he’s already better than Buster. You know, Buster Posey–that guy PJ says we don’t need on our team.
This isn’t a good year or a good lineup. There’s no reason not to have patience.
Running players out there before they are ready can wreck them. Playing them simply because everyone else stinks ( and they do) may not be the best idea.
He’s 24, not 18. He can either do it, or he can’t. He’s not going to be wrecked.
Isnt he a month removed from AA?
He’s relatively young and clearly not ready for MLB pitching. And yeah–an 0-for-20 can do serious damage to a youngster’s psyche.
If a 0-20 can do “serious damage” to an athlete’s psyche, they don’t have what it takes to succeed.
I’ll agree with that. That’s why the Cubs carried a sports psychologist with them all last year. Any sign of psyche weakness and he’d get up in their grill.
As I recall Mays was hitting .477 in triple A when called up and wound up hitting around 270 in his rookie season
I think we’re inching tonight toward a point where we can put a fork in the Matt Cain comeback … it ain’t happening. I think we’ve seen as good as we’re going to see. NCAA women’s softball, now there’s some actual drama … really! Last night 17 innings and a one-runner tonight.
Look at the home road splits. Only let him pitch at home. And though I agree with you, to be fair, except for the HR he could have easily let up only 2 runs tonight
Or not at all. 🙁
This is a terrible game. The Giants are sleepwalking to another ugly loss.
They are sleepwalking. Right through the 2017 season.
That’s okay as long as they’re not sleep driving. Maybe that’s how Bum really hurt his elbow.
Asleep at the wheel. Not good.
They are a great band!
I killed the TV, but it’s almost as bad on radio.
When we get home–hopefully after a split in Milwaukee–we play another surprising first place team, the Minnesota Twins. Miguel Sano is hot, so he’ll probably drive the ball all over our yard.
Counsel looks like he can still play.
The more I watch Slater, the more his swing reminds me of Pence.
I know it’s a small sample size, but nothing about him tells me he is going to be either a future starter on this team or even a solid bench OF.
I mean c’mon he was an 8th round draft pick, can’t expect much.
Yeah, I’m not seeing it yet either.
Scooter Gennett 4 HRs tonight.
And 10 RBI. Just hit his 4th in B8, he won’t get another AB, Reds lead the Cards 13-1 in Cincy.
Posey’s high for a game is 1 RBI
Duvall lost his job .
The team needs a new voice in that dugout. Too much of the same night after night. They’re getting too complacent about their losing ways.
Pence cant be it because he isnt producing
Complacent and soft. And I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but surviving the season instincts are required.
Exactly. I don’t mind the losing if I see effort. I don’t see effort.
Yep. Losing is less difficult to swallow if the effort is legit.
that was true about 10 months ago
And still holds true now. You mean the move is overdue?
Score 5 runs to tie the game or this little rally means nothing
Gennett’s 4 HR is only the 17th in baseball history. For comparison, there have been 23 perfect games. Pretty amazing.
Mays, Josh Hamilton?, Mark Whitten, Bob Horner?
All four are correct. Two Dodgers are on the list, one LA and one Brooklyn. Who are they?
Greene and Hodges .
You know your stuff.
I think Greene also hit a triple in his game to set the MLB record for total bases in a game.
He had a double and a single.
Didnt Greene have 12 RBI in thst game?
Yes
Didn’t Rendon have one earlier this season? Or was that just 3 HRs and 10RBIs
Only three.
Step aside Duvall, there’s a new LFer in town. Gennett now has 30 RBIs!
Posey is on a RBI tear, but still his season high remains 1 .
Damn…the internet. The Wikipedia entry for 4 HR games already lists Gennett,
There us the answer to the trivia question “What do Scooter Gennett and Willie Mays have in common?
Pence 0- for his return from the DL
He was not hitting in SanJose, he had RBI single yesterday .
Don’t be the last out Slater
3 run homer
Com’on Slater!
At least he hit it hard
That’s a shame.
Every game now becomes a must win.
wow
Our post season starts now.
LOL.
Joe…the Diamondbacks currently occupy the second wildcard spot and are playing at 93 win pace. The Giants are playing at 65 win pace. In order to win 93 games, they need to go 69-33 the rest of the way, which is 110 win pace. It’s over.
That’s why we need LA, D-Backs and the Rox to lose games. 😃
Too little too late. My thought exactly.
That was awesome. Gennett looks like a pint size powerhouse. He’s got a nice explosive burst with that swing. Hard to find playing time for him and top prospect Winker among the other three starters. Who will they trade for pitching?
Gennett was in the discussion for all-star reserve during his tenure with Milwaukee. I was surprised they traded him. His ABs for the Reds against us were impressive.
I’m not out there but try to skim bay area news, anyone asking for Evan’s head to roll? If this was the Yankees playing like this they would be hanging Cashman in effigy.
To many here are to quick to call for Bochy to step aside, as if the major issue was lack of leadership or voice in the club house when the major issue on this team going back to before ST was talent. I kept mentioning it all winter, as did a few others.
Bochy can only do so much, he was basically given a what I always thought was 2/3 of a team, with about 8-10 players being AAAA types, marginal players, dumpster dives, hopes and prayers. That is no way to go into a season, specially knowing the West has talent.
Too many people on this blog just look the other way and refuse to hold the FO and management accountable. And a bigger issue is this weird denial and refusal to accept when professional writers (yes not bloggers) state the Giants farm is just horrible. And this fantasy that players we have there are “ready to take over” once “given a chance”. There is no logic in that, specially since the Giants are void of impact players and have drafted horribly for some time. Beede and Arroyo look like the best of the mess and only time will tell. There is no one else that looks to help this year or next. That is a huge issue.
Should Sabean be fired? Is he responsible for this mess as much as Evans, who has done crap for two years? Is someone in the Bay asking the right questions or are they too afraid of the Giants brass to do so?
Two things.
(1) I’m really over you and PJ all the time with “people on this blog say…” It’s tired. There is a wide range of opinion here. No one speaks for everyone else.
(2) Sorry, but while you’re railing about Sabean, Evans, the players, and the rest of the organization, Bochy doesn’t get a pass. He deserves as much blame and criticism as anyone else for the way this past year has gone. If he gets credit for the success, he shares the blame for the failures. That’s how it works.
1) I’ll look for a new way to express that sentiment lol, but point taken!
2) You are right – Bochy does not get a pass, but he is not the root of the problem. The overall composition and talent on the team is, and that is not his domain (although many people here think he makes trades and signs FA and stuff 😉 ).
If you want to play that game of comparing managers, i’m in. Who do you think are the best mangers in the game? Francona? Madden? Methaney? If they were to take this team over tomorrow do you actually think that this team, as built, would all of the sudden perform better? That this squad is somehow under performing for Bruce but would beat the leather off the ball for someone else?
This team, “as built”: We lost our entire Core Four, Cain is done, Smarge and other mediocre acquisitions cost too much, Bum did a stupid thing and, “as built” we’re just a very, very uninspiring squad. Very. Remember how the Dodgers did last year without Opie? We don’t remotely have the talent to duplicate that. There is no aspect of the organization right now that’s above average, including Bochy trying to squeeze blood out of AAA turnip. We’re in for a long down cycle. This is my theory, it is mine.
The “Core Four” didn’t get “lost.” They retired (Affeldt and Lopez) or were too mediocre to keep paying (Romo and Casilla). As for Samardzija, he’s turned into one of the more interesting Giants stories this season in a year where there are precious few.
That’s the worst thing–it’s not just that the Giants are bad. It’s that they’re seriously damn boring to watch.
they need more cafe with all that leche.
I’d say Francona, Girardi, and maybe Dave Roberts. Not sure what I think about Maddon. He was handed a ton of talent and damn near made it 109 years of futility last year. He got lucky at the end there.
I have a lot of respect for how Girardi has navigated aging, highly paid players, injuries, and now youngsters. The Yankees don’t always win, but they’re never terrible like the Giants are now. I thought Francona did a remarkable job with the Indians last year. And Roberts deserves a lot of credit for what the Dodgers accomplished last year with all the injuries.
Bochy doesn’t handle adversity well. He gets rigid and stubborn. Other managers are better at that than he is.
I’d add Buck Showalter to that list as well. I think Maddon is excellent, and his track record supports that. I don’t think another manager would provide a miraculous turnaround, but I do think the players no longer respond to Bochy’s voice.
You wrote passionately last year about the way Casilla’s meltdowns affected the entire team. You work hard to get 1-2 run lead late, and your closer comes in and coughs it up. That’s a gut punch that hurts for a long time. The players look at Bochy continuing to make the same move over and over? I think he lost a lot of them last year.
Yup. Bochy is a master at handling rent-a-stud veterans but he’s obviously out of his element when trying to juggle AAA guys. Not his forte. Bochy should retire this year citing health reasons. If he stays with these guys for 5-6 more years his career will end with a very long anticlimax.
He DOES have health issues. He should enjoy his money and his life and not drive himself into a too-early grave. And if he pushes it too far, he’ll end up under .500 for his career, and that’s not a good look for a HOF candidacy.
Word re “people on this blog”. I gave PJ a mild scold last night about that. We are “Together We’re Giants” or TWG, and to your point there are a wide range of opinions and a lot of very intelligent discussions among passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans. We’re a pretty good group. I include both PJ and Efrain in that mix as well.
Blog consensus seems to be that retooling/rebuilding should not take place with Bochy and Evans. That’s putting it kindly.
Yes, but with all due respect, what goes on on this blog matter very little to the Giant organization. My question is about local writers at major news groups, beat writers, local radio and television, etc. Are they asking how this team got to where it is and why? Really research who is to blame for this mess.
No, they aren’t researching too much. It’s a passive bunch of “journalists” out here. (Baggs did a piece on the entire organizations records, but I think he missed the mark…at least he tried. Others just don’t)
there you go, as fans we should be pressing them to.
Very similar to the Dubs situation before Cohen sold the team. The fans and the media got so fed up it helped start the process.
someone activate the Kawakami!
at least Kawakami has cojones and is not afraid to ask the right questions!
I get a kick out of him. He keeps feet to the fire. If he had even a one percent effect in getting the Niners to make some changes he deserves a prize and a hug.
I think Kawakami is a self-centered, arrogant writer who thinks he knows more than the people doing the job. I’m out of market so I don’t see that much of his work, but what I see does not impress me.
Baggs noted the minor league records and lack of international talent but so did we. We’re that good.
I differ from Lefty in the sense that I do blame Evans much more than Bochy. I have consistently voiced disappointment in Evans.
Now, I do think Bochy has made some serious mistakes in lineups and games, but that happens to be true for every manager forever: baseball is ripe for questioning managers decisions because we fans think we can predict results better than a professional.
But, your biggest point us the one I agree with: a manager is given a crew. He has nothing really beyond that crew to figure out what to do. Fans are calling for Mac ( I did, but I look wrong, too…he isn’t MLB ready and probably won’t be) or Slater or Calixte or Arroyo or Shaw or Beede or Nextdudewithnoidea…
If you’re the manager, are you going to just trot out unknown and then hope for results?
Bochy could be better. Evans should be removed.
That’s just it, look what a mess LF has been, that one position alone has sucked the life out of the team, much as the closer role did last season. That one position has cased a hole in the lineup both offensively and defensively. Add to that the issue with Pence and Span would have to transform into Willie Mays to make up for the deficiencies.
Evans and Co told the fans Parker and Mac were ready. They were not, they most likely will never be. They cold have signed a mid level FA to bring consistency to LF but they didn’t. That is no on Bochy.
When they looked at that whiteboard and saw Span in leadoff and CF, a breaking down Pence in RF, and still decided that it made any sense at all to go with Parker/Williamson? Embarrassingly predictable…then the substitute for Mac was Marrero?? Then guys like Stubbs? Ruggiano?
I get it may be a “committee”, but ONE guy has the GM responsibility…grow a pair, do the job.
I’m thinking the Giants right now would be better off with Blanco and Pagan still in the OF.
You are right, but that is a really sad statement.
Yeah, funny to think those seem like the good old days, now.
Remember that for Efrain the real issue is that the Giants don’t have enough Hispanics.
Blanco in place of Gorkys? Maybe. Pagan? No way. He played himself out of SF and has not found another job. Pagan had a decent 2012, especially the last two months, and parlayed that into a four year, $40MM contract that he did not even come close to earning. Good riddance.
Tough to “grow a pair” and do the job, if you don’t have the authority to make decisions on your own.
The problem was that Bochy made such a mess of the bullpen last year that they had to give that top priority.
Plenty of blame to go around, and regardless of who you think the bigger problem is, I think it’s clear: this team has to go into rebuild mode, and Bochy is absolutely not the guy for the job. Whatever his strengths are, rebuilding is not one of them.
They both need to go, with “go” meaning a soft landing in Bochy’s case. He deserves that much.
But with the RIGHT kids, he has proven he can do it…in 2010, he had Posey ( who knows if the “Bengie trade” story is true) and actually used a 20-year-old kid in Bum, and we were all nervous -admit it. In 2012, he went with Crawford and Belt…in 2014 Panik and Duffy…he DOES hold youth to a different standard, and it’s frustrating. But I think he CAN use and win with the right kids…
Evans? I’m SO not a fan.
The problem the past few years are that the young kids are not Posey+Bum+Crawford+Belt, they have been Duffy+Kelby+Parker+Heston.
That is not a recipe to keep the ball moving in the right direction and that is on the Giants brass.
YOU PUT BELT ON THE “GOOD” LIST!!!!!!!!!!
yeah I did, I almost corrected it. At least he has held onto a starting MLB job for a number of years.
The problem is that Efrain’s understanding of baseball is limited to narratives which are at best loosely based on reality, so there is no a priori reason that they should not contradict each other.
Fair enough. I’m not a Bochy fan, so I don’t have the faith in him that you do.
But as a counterargument: Look at Dave Roberts. He has some “right kids”–Seager, Bellinger–but he also has some “wrong” ones–Toles, Taylor, etc. He puts his faith in players and figures out how to win.
No credit to Bochy for playing Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner. They’re both top 10 picks and freakin’ studs. And he jerked Belt around for years, played Orlando Cabrera and Miguel Tejada instead of Crawford, and only gave Panik and Duffy a shot after literally playing Dan Uggla and Casey McGehee first. And this year he went with Cain over Blach. He gets it wrong over and over and over, and he hasn’t ever learned a thing.
Im sorry for this cliche, but…Bruce, through anything and everything said, WON 3 Titles. Period. No manager is perfect. None. No other manager has his pedigree…through all the “errors” or missteps. He did it with who he had. So, HE gets my benefit of the doubt ( and I still bitch him out constantly).
Evans? Perhaps set up for failure jumping on the train when he did, but he owns the 25 and 40. That’s his…I don’t care if Bruce had input, or if Zbrian made him do it…but the laundry list of non MLB players, subpar scouting, drafting, and a situation that looks impossibly dire
No argument that Evans has done a very poor job. The outfield situation was a miscalculation of epic, fireable proportions. 12 different left fielders before Game 60? And CF and RF are not all that, either.
I would argue that the outfield situation is also Bochy’s fault. Any rational person would have seen that the outfield was a bigger problem that the relievers this year, but Bochy made such a mess of the relief situation last year that there was a general feeling that getting a top-flight reliever was a higher priority than dealing with the outfield.
Bitched him out constantly? I must’ve missed those comments.
They have been numerous and meaningful.
Of course you have. That’s how you roll. If you paid attention, the posts are all there for you to see
Bochy needs to go, and you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that Evans isn’t a true GM; Sabean signs off on every major move.
Well you are ignoring the Smith trade. Did Sabean sign off on that or not? If he did, why did he go against Bochy’s wishes on that occasion?
Here’s the Mercury-News story about the promotion of Evans to General Manager and the elevation of Sabean to Executive Vice-President. As the story states, Sabean retained veto power over all major transactions and, with Evans assuming more day-to-day duties, was looking forward to being able to “pursue and implement his own vision of the future for the club’s baseball side.” It’s pretty clear that, regardless of the job titles, Sabean is the one in charge.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2015/04/03/giants-extend-sabean-bochy-through-2019-name-bobby-evans-g-m/
So you are saying the Sabean approved the Smith trade? Obviously Bochy was wildly against it, considering how he treated treated Smith afterward. So this implies that there was a disagreement between Sabean and Bochy?
I would certainly agree that Bochy can manage a winning team if management goes out and buys him established all-stars at every position.
And you will note that there are zero outfielders in your list. Zero. That’s why we’re in the mess we’re in now. I don’t know why that is (I could guess), but it’s pretty striking.
True that…the ol’ outfield vortex is killing this organization…along with a few other holes
Don’t forget Bum was sent back down before being brought back up permanently He had some mechanics problem that had him in the upper 80’s for his fastball.
He wasn’t sent back. He simply did not make the 25-man out of camp because he was out of shape and had not developed arm strength. He got in shape and was called up in June.
Side note on Bum: Kuiper has often mentioned that Bum wasn’t old enough for an adult beverage when he won his first WS game. Not true–he was born 8/1/89, and was 21 years old when he pitched that game. He made his first MLB appearance appx two months before his 21st birthday. That laziness or lack of research grates me, FWIW.
He did oversee the rebuild post Bonds Era. Those teams were miserable talent wise. Bengie hitting clean up. Eugenio leading off, Bowker, and Fred Lewis, etc. This team consists of mainly homegrown core players borne out of that process
If you’re Bochy, you go with the known and compile the third worst record in baseball.
I think it’s time for both Sabean and Bochy to retire. They are both past 60, they’ve been in their positions for a very long time (Sabean 20+ years, Bochy in his 11th season as manager). I think the players are less tuned in to the manager after such a long tenure. There are exceptions, but not many.
While Evans has made some good trades, overall he has not built an MLB caliber roster. New upper management moves and Evans will be reassigned or terminated.
Biggest issue IMHO is weak scouting and player development. We’re constantly dumpster diving for end of the bench, over the hill veterans because no one from the minors is forcing their way on to the 25-man. John Barr got a lot of praise early in his tenure. Lately, not so much.
Bochy’s own health might be the best reason to gracefully give him the boot. The stress of his job is high even if he keeps calm on the outside.
That gets back to top 50 and blue chip prospects. The Cubs were loaded due to Epsteins tear down and rebuild while the Giants had nobody due to trading away most of their top prospects.
I think this Dyson move is fascinating. More moves coming, without question. This is the most interesting thing the Giants have done in weeks.
I think so too. I don’t understand why some people are viewing the move so negatively. It is literally low risk, high-reward, esp. if it’s for just cash considerations and he pans out.
I suspect it’s so they can trade someone–maybe Melancon, maybe Strickland or Law–but worst case, they’ve bolstered their bullpen with a legitimate talent for practically nothing.
Maybe. Or they just keep everyone and add quality depth.
Not a bad thing, either. This year is a lost cause, but they’ll still need a bullpen next year. And Will Smith will be back, too.
Just checked. Dyson is under team control through 2020.
Hopefully he doesn’t give off the impression that we’re stuck with him through 2020. If he regains confidence in his stuff again, he really should be much better than at least Bryan Morris.
We’re not stuck with him. He becomes arbitration-eligible after this season. If he’s a bust, they just non-tender him.
As for Morris, he’s been kind of a sleeper that’s easy to miss amidst all the misery. He might be a nice veteran pick-up, too. Not a bad idea to build a new mix of veteran and younger arms (Melancon, Smith, Morris, Dyson + Law, Okert/Osich, Crick…?).
Strickland and Gearrin as well. I think Dyson could even work himself into a set-up role for us if all goes well. The potential is definitely there.
As I’ve said before, Giants need to build a strong bullpen before addressing other needs and go from there. I still think Giants need more lefties in the pen, but this move is definitely a step in the right direction.
I was down on Morris big-time after the meltdowns in his first two appearances. At one point his ERA was 22.80. He has pitched much better, and other announcers/commentators have commented on his earlier success.
Still, I see it as either Gearrin or Morris. Must admit also that Gearrin has looked better his last few outings as well.
in what form will Smith be back? The guy is having Tommy John surgery which takes a half a year before they start soft toss. Then he needs to build up arm strength command and strength.
He might not be ready Opening Day 2018, but you have to think that by early May he’s a legit lefty out of our bullpen.
A legit non-loogy lefty. Hopefully Bochy will remember that. But I doubt it.
While the pitch forks are out, don’t forget everybody in the front office involved in the draft/player development and international scouting.
Also while we’re at it– how about addressing the fact that Giants are the 5th most wealthy team in the MLB but are too cheap to have more than 2 rookie league teams.
Spend some money and start developing younger players.
BTW the Dodgers have 4 rookie teams.
Hear, hear.
Another thing about Sam Dyson: Posey caught him for six perfect innings in the WBC and raved about him. No idea what’s gone wrong with him in Texas this year, but this sounds like a great under-the-radar move for the future.
Now this is interesting. I did not know this.
Buster’s voice carries a lot of weight with management, and I trust his opinion. As Eric said, very interesting.
And yet Dyson fell apart more or less immediately after that. Hmm. The plot thickens.
WBC has a way of doing that
Like I’ve said, I don’t judge the front office harshly for what’s happening now. They achieved great success and this downfall was the inevitable fallout from that great success. But a new era has started, and how they respond to the end of the previous era will certainly be worth judging.
It looks like a certain amount of Dyson’s collapse this year has been very bad luck. He has an excellent line drive % this year of 15.7%, actually even better than last year (18.9%), and although his hard-hit % is worse this year (30.6% vs 27.5%), it’s still better than league average. He has a radically inflated BABIP of .379 (last year it was .291) and so has given up 31 hits in 16.2 innings, but this really looks like horrendous luck. But although the hard-hit% hasn’t gone up much, he has already given up no fewer than 6 HRs this year (which is astounding because he’s a complete ground ball pitcher and has only given up 16 fly balls at all (6/16=37.5%)), and also his walks have gone up (13.2% from 8.1%) while his strikeouts have gone down (7.7% from 19.3%). Here’s an article from yesterday which is unable to explain Dyson’s collapse this year:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/its-anyones-guess-what-sam-dyson-has-left/
(note though that in fact Dyson’s average FB this year has dropped only from 95.8 last year to 95.5 this year, so Sullivan’s 77% to 48% is probably a stupid meaningless trick of the type he specializes in because he isn’t very smart)
I would however take John Autin’s comment on the article seriously:
BEGIN QUOTE
Dyson lived on a very thin margin last year. Out of 132 relievers who worked 50+ innings, his (SO-BB)% ranked 99th. The average ERA of the 20 guys surrounding him was 3.54. Dyson managed a 2.43 ERA mainly due to an extreme GB%, much as Treinen did. Some guys do maintain success that way, but it’s always a riskier route than a high K rate — the more balls in play, the more damage can be caused by any given change in outcome rates. I suspect he’s had plenty of bad luck this year, and I doubt he’s now a true-talent 10 ERA. But there really aren’t ANY good markers, beyond the still-strong GB% rate, and those have gotten through for a .326 BA this year.
END QUOTE
Autin is one of the few intelligent people to comment on Fangraphs (and much smarter than Sullivan), and it may well be that while Dyson’s terrible results this year are to a significant extent the product of very bad luck, it also seems likely that his good results last year were to a significant extent the product of good luck.
In principle the idea of this deal should be to see if Dyson can pull off something of a return to form, and if so deal Melancon (assuming he can be convinced) for significant outfield help.
I guess the TWG server blew up again?
Just listening to Bobby Evans on KNBR. His lips were moving but he didn’t say anything for 15 mins.
He learned from the best.
I can’t in to TWG again. I can get into comments through Disqus.
Bobby be comfortably numb
te
Anybody here??
Nope.
Unfortunate that the favorite blog page goes down – but if the itch is just too great, next time use the Disqus backdoor. PicoJim once informed of this. Just Google “disqus together were giants”, after opening up that link, clink on the “Comments” link, not the thread title of the latest, and voila, you’re in.
Well, I guess Cy Blach wasn’t going to win them all, but he just looks competent all the way. The ball just goes where he wants it go. Buster must have fun catching him.
I just figured that out a few minutes ago how to get in.
Status update? ETA? Is the blog getting buried with this team?
It’s amazing how much more work I get done when the blog is down…
ugly start
nice
WTF was Span looking for? That was right down Broadway!
Was it Rob who went streaking on the field?
http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Pants-less-man-runs-toward-Giants-Brandon-11206473.php
If Gorkys has a typically horrible AB, and no one is on the blog to rip on him, did he really strike out?
Looks like just me and Peachy here to celebrate Slater’s first dinger…
I also got to witness his first hit in person. Figured I’d continue to be there for all his firsts. Well, maybe not all his firsts….
Glad you clarified that! LOL
I’m here too but finally figured how to get in. Looks like problems with the website?
Yup. Down for two days now…
That Slater HR was the longest one hit by a Giants player this season.
yup also
Slater ties Mark Trumbo with 17th longest HR of 2017 (461 Feet)
Jake Lamb is 1st (481 Feet)
Is the 461 an estimate on if the ball had not hit the wall?
yes statcast measures all that
i would’ve thought that Poseys yesterday was longer.
nice throw meat!
I guess Gorkys isn’t used to being on base too often, let alone stealing..
nope.
Aaron Hill to the rescue. vote 4 him 4 the ASG.
He’s looked a lot better lately!
Have to go to a meeting so I’ll let you guys bring it on home! Go Giants!
Nuney!
add on Sparky.
oh well.
I don’t like hearing Sergio’s music at other stadiums.
nice play Panik.
nice job Hunter.
Span the man with a good bunt.
Lucky he didn’t keep the tag on Nunez.
Melancon twice in a series. When’s the last time that happened?
sob
sob
frick
Nuney!
Time to hit the pool.
keep adding on , nothing is safe
Hey, the back door crew is here.
Heckuva win for the team. A real turning point. Okay, that’s probably a stretch but respectability counts for something in this world.
Cueto not enhancing his trade appeal.
Melancon with the WIN!!! LOL
Lordy, I hope there is tape of Slater’s HR, I missed it.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/235190102/austin-slater-hits-longest-2017-hr-by-rookie/
just peachy did you bail Rob out of jail yesterday for streaking?
Nah, I thought he might enjoy it in there for the night.
Poor Duffy 🙁
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/rays-journal-concern-mounts-over-health-of-matt-duffy/2326698
It’s the Rays’ fault. They’re the ones with the crappy field on which he hurt his heel on.
My memory isn’t good, but it includes Duffy’s Achilles problem occurring as a Giant. He doesn’t look right in the picture in your article – light blue is not a good color on Matt Duffy. I wonder if he’ll ever be back in SF?
I sure hope so! I’m not giving up hope.
Also tomorrow is Matt Duffy bobblehead night. I wonder how invested the Rays fans are with Duffman, when they’ve barely seen him play. Poor kid.
Go Giants!
How’s the back door crew doing tonight? Are you ready for some baseball?
yes we are.
Yes. And some basketball. Sam Dyson added to the 25, available from the bullpen tonight. Calixte optioned back to Sacramento.
Thanks for the tip.
It’s in the pre-game notes on the San Jose Mercury News website. Also, Chris Heston was released by the Dodgers on Weds. and picked up by the Twins, might start Sunday:
Embattled reliever will be available in Giants Bullpen Friday night
By PAUL GACKLE | Bay Area News Group
PUBLISHED: June 9, 2017 at 6:08 pm | UPDATED: June 9, 2017 at 6:38 pm
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/09/embattled-reliever-will-be-available-in-giants-bullpen-friday-night/
Ha. I meant the directions to the back door here from on the merc blog.
Heston might start Sunday? Might seem akward at first.
I posted the link to here just a little while ago. Glad that we’re here.
Yeah. Wish the word could get out to a few of the others. Wonder when the site will be back up? This one here is definitely serviceable but behaves a little different.
Go Giants!
Good start Moore. So is Panik feeling some effects from the tumble yesterday?
It seems like Joe Panik hasn’t had a day off for a while, so I hope that’s all it is.
Nunez hitting .375 over last 22 games. Just luck I guess.
He is a useful ball player, apparently with a history of starting the season slowly.
In this series, he might be carrying a little extra motivation?
Definitely. He beat out a grounder to 3rd in the 1st inning. Unfortunately the next batter, Belt, GIDP’d to end the inning.
I’ve liked Nuney ever since they got him last year but he doesn’t get a lot of love here.
Do the Cavs spend so much money on Crybaby Lebron that they can’t even afford to give the fans matching shirts?
vote Hill for the ASG!
He’s battling for a spot on the post season roster.
One thing is for sure, Aaron Hill is out to make it look like I know nothing about baseball – I did fake DFAs on him several times. Hill came back from rehab at 0.120, had his average dip close to 0.100, and is now at .200.
Giants need to get a lead off triple across the plate!
Well that’s a shame.
that was bad.
This is the Rays’ version of the Duffy bobblehead:
http://www.stadiumgiveawayexchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Tampa-Bay-Rays-Matt-Duffy-Double-Play-Bobblehead-6-10-2017.jpg
Really and truly, the Rays ought to just mail you one of these.
That’s actually pretty cool.
Ugh I hate 2017.
This is not good.
Can’t be any worse than the Dubs game
grand slam coming up.
glad i’m wrong.
Anybody else having to watch the twins broadcast? It’s weak.
yep and I agree.
Is it true no hitter from the right side has ever had a splash hit?
Very nice of the Giants to give the Twins bullpen a rest on this long road trip for them.
Ain’t no fuzz about it, Giants can’t hit a lick. But tip your cap to Santana if you like.
7 run here 3 runs there zero here all amounts to 1-2 with a 3.33 runs per game average. That about sums up the Giants season through the first third
It’s weird seeing Pence wearing his pants normally. Almost didn’t recognize him!
The Rays beat the A’s on Duffy bobblehead night.