by
GreekGiant
That was actually a quote by the legend himself. I watched the ESPN broadcast and in the fourth inning the broadcast crew turned their duties over to Vin Scully. The baseball history lesson was humbling and enjoyable, certainly more entertaining than the game. When the opposing team’s play-by-play announcer is the highlight of the night well…. The Giants outfield was under attack all night, running for cover from Dodger bombs and showing no interest in catching the balls driven by them, over them, and in front of them. It is sadly appropriate that Pagan, Pence and Span would all show their defensive limitations a night after Gorkys Hernandez and Mac Williamson offered so much energy and improved defense in their outfield play.
The First Inning Takes a Turn Into Dismay
The entire game that started out so promisingly with Denard Span reaching base via a walk and scoring on Angel Pagan’s RBI single, turned into a Southern California nightmare traffic jam. Matt Moore could not throw strikes. When he did he was hit hard, giving up a 3-run bolt of lightning to Yasiel Puig after allowing run scoring hits to Adrian Gonzalez and some other player.. It was a very bad inning. It got worse from there.
I want to examine Buster Posey’s at bat in the first. Batting third with a run in, Angel Pagan on second after advancing on the throw home by Puig (which should have thrown out Span but instead was bobbled by Carlos Ruiz). The momentum was on. The Giants were in business. Well, not so fast. Buster proceed to weakly ground out to short. Hunter Pence took a called third strike after missing some very hittable pitches. The Giants would not score again in the first and it felt like the Giants let Kenta Maeda escape with minimal damage. In short, it felt like a small victory for the Dodgers, avoiding a big inning.
Then the bottom of the first happened and our outfield was shell-shocked.
Did the Giants Get Old All of a Sudden?
It is always a sad revelation to watch your heroes become mortal. I’m still having a hard time accepting that Tim Lincecum’s career disappeared off a cliff. Our outfield is old. The Giants may have the worst outfield defense in the Major Leagues. Someone can look it up. Pagan and Span are clearly limited in their range having lost a few steps. Pence has missed dozens of games this year and last. It may be time to accept that the Giants need to rebuild their outfield next year. The offensive production from Span and Co. is not enough to outweigh the defensive limitations in terms of lack of range and weak arms. Teams run at will on us and it has affected many aspects of our game.
The Race Ahead
The funny thing about blowouts is that they are easier to shrug off. These are the type of losses that don’t take as huge an emotional tool as Monday night’s game did. The Giants now have to summon some type of courage and discipline to get past the finish line into the Wild Card game. The Cardinals and Mets also lost so this means the three mediocre teams are tied for the two spots. The division race is surely over.
A Major League season is a marathon and right now the Giants are the type of runner in need of some bananas and cup of Gatorade. They have soiled and pissed themselves the way marathon runners do in the course of their race when the body’s needs cannot be attended to. The finish line is in view. The question is what kind of stamina the Giants have left.
Our outfield is definitely old but I’ve watched enough games to conclude that Parker and Mac aren’t the future. Would have liked to see Slater, Duggar and others get called up but we shall see what happens the rest of the way.
Good pick on the Future Giants that will compete next spring. Duggar really is impressive in light of last night; speed, defense and contact and a prospects for the CF/Leadoff that the Giants thought they got in Span.
What’s the attribution for the photo at the top?
Dismal [diz-muh l] adj.
1. causing gloom or dejection; gloomy; dreary; cheerless; melancholy:
dismal weather.
2.characterized by ineptness or lack of skill, competence, effectiveness, imagination, or interest; pitiful:
Our team played a dismal game.
3.Obsolete.
disastrous; calamitous.
unlucky; sinister.
Our defensive shifts & scouting reports are becoming obsolete, with the results being disastrous, calamitous & unlucky enough that you’d think some Giants personnel were on the Dodgers payroll, which would be very sinister.
Thanks Greek. You’re right about the blowouts. Just thinking tonights would be more palatable if Giants had closed out the first game of the series.
I don’t want to see Pagan or Span start another game. I may have to accept toast, but I’ll have it buttered my way.
Cards 80-72
Mets 80-72
Giants 80-72
Bugly
Cards have the tie-breaker over the Giants, season series. Not sure about Mets, though above is the way ESPN lists them in standings
That’s how I heard it this morning.
Nope, there’s no tiebreaker for wild card spots, just for hosting games. If they end up tied with either or both teams, they play tiebreaker games.
A-ha. Thanks much for the info.
The All Crap Team
George, I think you mean Cardinals and Mets, not Braves above.
Fixed! Thanks Bapah.
Guess we used all that even years magic on that homerun.
Shame and woe. Pass and Stow.
Giants are stank this much I know.
this is the most cogent explanation i’ve seen on how the 3 way wild card boils out…..
Team A would host Team B on Oct. 3; the winner of that game claims
the top Wild Card spot, while the loser goes on to visit Team C on Oct.
4. The winner of that second game will assume the second Wild Card spot.
The most likely scenario in the event of a three-way tie is the
Cardinals and Mets playing to determine the first Wild Card spot in St.
Louis on Oct. 3, and the loser will travel to San Francisco for a game
on Oct. 4. The winner of the Oct. 3 game would then host the winner of
the Oct. 4 game on Oct. 5 in the NL Wild Card Game.
I believe the Giants will have 2 road games by virtue of losing both season series
You have the process backwards.
Team A hosts the game on Oct 3.
Team B has the choice of playing that game on the road or sitting it out. If they sit it out, Team C plays that game.
The loser of the first game plays the third team (B or C), and the head-to-head record determines who hosts it. So if Team A loses the first game, they still host the second game. If Team B plays and loses the first game, they host Team C in the second game. Team C is on the road in any scenario–the only question is whether they play both games or just the second one.
So much can change in 10 games but this would be the way the Giants could top being simply the #2 wildcard team and win the WS. Just dreaming some after a nightmare last night.
That sounds intense and fun
got my piece from the MLB page so I guess nobody really knows how this will work out. I understand there are also MLB rules if a 4th team is in the mix
It doesn’t matter. Team G is NOT a playoff team.
First inning was like too many others. By just playing the game the right way, it’s 4-2 and not 5-1. The Giants again cannot move a runner from second with no outs, then their shortstop, on the roster only for his defense, can’t turn a DP in the bottom. Would it have mattered? Probably not. The Giants scored 6 in the series, which is the amount a Dodger C lineup (no major league bats after the 5 hole unless you include a sub 700 OPS Ruiz) put up in 2 innings.
10 games left. Must go 7-3 to make the postseason. My heart says we can do this. My brain says highly unlikely.
I think they are in at 5 and 5 and they are out at 4 and 6. No team is grabbing the bull by the horn and taking the wild card
Not to be a downer but found this interesting in light of this year’s Giants:
5 biggest collapses in MLB history:
http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1101358-5-biggest-collapses-in-mlb-history
Surprisingly, all but one of these teams had the same manager the next season (although not sure of the contract status) exception one. Terry Francona’s club option was not picked up by Boston after 2011. He spent 8 years as the manager and compiled a .574 winning % and 5 playoff appearances with 2 WS titles. Wonder if they would have kept him if he was still under contract.
Baggarly’s piece was just dripping with snark and venom. He called Bumgarner “self-absorbed.” He called Cain and Peavy “the world’s most expensive janitorial staff.” It goes on.
Believe me, I’m not happy about how things have gone, either. But he was over the top, in my opinion. It’s one thing for a fan to vent on a social media outlet. Baggarly’s not a fan and he went to journalism school. He’s supposed to be objective.
Wow that sounds really mean, no matter accurate. I don’t know about objectivity but a journalist should always avoid getting personal and nasty I think.
“Objectivity” for a journalist depends on the type of piece they’re writing. If it’s an op-ed or a column, their voice and opinion get in there. For a news story, you’re supposed to stick with the facts and let the readers decide for themselves. You can write in a descriptive way to be interesting, but you’re not supposed to go beyond what the facts show you.
Baggarly’s reference to Cain/Peavy was colorful but still factual–they are highly paid and they were in “mop-up” (janitorial) duty in the blowout. His reference to Bumgarner as “self-absorbed” is his opinion, and one based on speculation about what happened on Monday night. He admitted that the “source” of his opinion was his “years of experience in covering Bochy.”
On the opposite side, his only mention of Blach was that he “also appeared in relief.” No description of him being perfect over 3 innings and throwing only 24 pitches. Both Schulman and Pavlovic not only described Blach’s outing in more positive detail but also mentioned him as “auditioning” for Sunday’s start. Again, those are facts. Baggs chose not to report them.
Very good points. I should also have given an honorable mention to Ty Blach. He was very good in mop-up duty thought I suspect by the 7th the Dodgers just wanted to go home and eat some Tacos.
Yep, you have to take into consideration how competitive those ABs were (or were not). At the same time, Blach could have come in and started walking people and throwing cookies–it’s not like we haven’t seen that before. He was getting one-pitch outs and throwing strikes. K & K were referring to him as “Cy” Blach by the eight.
Alex mentioned that Blach now has thrown 6 innings and given up just one hit–and thrown 66 pitches. That’s impressive. The difference between Blach and Suarez–thinking of next year’s 5th starter–is that Suarez never goes deep into games. Blach does. He led the PCL in innings this year.
EDIT: Blach’s led the PCL in innings the last TWO seasons–and this year on two fewer starts, one because he got called up and the other because of the All-Star Game.
More excellent points from the Dr.!
The lines between news and opinion have been blurred because of the internet. Thanks Al Gore.
“Expensive dugout ornaments” (Mateo!) at least is humorous. “Janitorial staff” is really derogatory in referring to a Cy Young and a W/S Champion.
(And I apologize to any janitors out there – I’ve had jobs that made that attractive.)
Todays media is opinionated controversial headline statements. It is not point by point facts. It is a reminder of the reporter from the Natural, that parahprased statement “your either going to be a goat or a hero, it does not matter to me as I am going to have a great story one way or another”
I don’t know about calling MadBum names, but he was as responsible as anyone for turning this series the wrong way.
By pitching seven one-hit scoreless innings? Anything beyond that is pure speculation.
10 Ks, 0 BBs. It’s on him, for sure.
This is what I said yesterday about Baggarly (and what I’ve been saying for some time, and then people say: “Oh! But he’s such a wonderful writer and you’re bad-mouthing Baggarly.”)
Andrew Baggarly is supposed to be a reporter, not an op-ed columnist. I don’t like his snark and speculation which so often passes for reporting by his standards. I prefer straightforward reporting based on facts and on-the-record interviews.
Agree and maybe that is the SIlver Lining to the End of GE: Baggs is optional reading now and does not get credit for the posts we were giving his blog. Then again I think you guys are great but maybe our actions here are minuscule in the corporate picture?
I’m very glad that Baggarly is no longer getting credit for the hundreds and thousands of our comments on GE. That number of comments made him look popular, when actually we were interested in interacting with each other and reading what we had to say. GE was our virtual Cheers.
Of course we’re “minuscule” – like fleas to them, since we don’t bring in any pesos!
Since he left Comcast and came back to the Merc, two things have struck me about his piling on when things go badly. One, he may be mad at the Giants themselves. Sticking just to the facts, Baggs reported on Romo’s argument with Dunston, the players were furious at him and boycotted him for a few days, and then a couple months later he’s out at Comcast and swapped jobs with Alex. Those are the facts. Whether one thing led to the next (him leaving Comcast), I don’t know. But if they were connected, it’s not hard to guess that there’s a bit of a grudge there.
Second, he may dislike Giants fans, and enjoys rubbing it in their faces with his prose when things are going well–kicking us when we’re down. The way he just dumped the blog after all these years with no warning or real explanation supports that, too. The funny thing about that is, he’s written two books about the Giants that I assume he’d like to sell. It’s strange to want to make your prospective customers unhappy. But maybe he can’t help himself.
The way Baggarly writes, he comes across as angry at the Giants. We’re watching the same games he is, only we aren’t getting paid to watch the games. He’s made a ton of money off the Giants with his two books. When he came back to the Merc, he used Giants Extra to promote his second book. Ad nauseam.
I haven’t read him since Greek got this going. Alex and Brisbee give me all the reporting I need or want.
Bag it, baggs.
It is all speculation and I cannot imagine he dislikes Giants fans. How is that possible? It has to be weird, however, to be a professional covering a team you were not a fan of when starting. Imagine, if you will Lefty, you were assigned to be a beat writer for the Houston Astros after your Giants upbringing? That would be weird. Regarding the termination of Giants Extra, I bet that was a corporate move but who really knows. I still cannot believe they dumped that blog with its devout following by brilliant fans. But their loss is our gain.
Thank you again for setting this forum up for us, GreekGiant. I don’t know how you have the time to do this. It’s very generous of you. Thanks to you we have very own virtual Cheers that is not connected to any corporate entity or reporter that can suddenly terminate our place to hang out.
You are welcome! Glad to have your contributions dgg.
Serious business it says a lot about you as a person to put this together.
Ditto X 10, dgg, GG.
GG is the best! No offense to dgg!
Tim Kawakami’s blog is still up and running. Nor have I heard that the Warriors Fastbreak blog (also very popular) is going anywhere. Obviously there was a choice and Baggs chose to discontinue Giants Extra. Our loss is our gain, though, thanks to you.
DOCTOR!
He used the blog to flog those books unmercifully. Now that they’re just bookends the blog is useless to him, and he doesn’t have to pretend to care. He’s just a talented, self-aggrandizing corporate flak.
I wonder if Baggarly is mad at the Giants because the way this season is going, he’s not going to be able to make a whole lot more money off the Giants by writing another bestselling book.
Maybe he’s heading back to the midwest to try his hand at a Cubs blog.
Baggarly hit the bonanza with the Giants. Why would he go anywhere else?
Exactly. He’s milked this cow for all its worth.
He shouldn’t burn bridges though. Karma’s a bitch.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/70f5e2f30979ba1c2dcf4ae9a8d719a65dfb759269b1fbcfcc4fc6bf6fcb5a45.jpg
You know, if Baggs had a blog, he could write whatever he wanted. If he only had a blog.
I just checked it out…Baggs is the epitome of “self absorbed” and there he goes again. Pitiful
Right? Awful. Even the stuff about Vin Scully was awful–the “cold dig” (Baggarly’s words) about Bumgarner: “I wonder if Madison Bumgarner watched Puig hit that home run.” First of all, Scully’s comment doesn’t make any sense. Puig didn’t hit the homer off Bum (or anything off Bum the other night). Second, Bum didn’t badmouth Puig or say anything about his abilities as a player, so what difference does it make whether or not he watched Puig hit a homer off Moore? But I’ll give Vin a pass because he’s 88.
Then Baggs goes on to say that Scully became a Giants fan when he was 8 because he felt sorry for them and “I wonder if he feels sorry for them now.” Well–probably not. They’re in playoff position, not lottery position. What’s to feel sorry for?
He’s just speaking for a lot of the fans including myself.
But that’s the point. His job is to report on the games, not “speak for the fans.” His postgame report was very unprofessional.
Well doc he can report about the crappy team that we follow and speak for the fans.
Andrew Baggarly is supposed to be a reporter. It’s not his job to rail against the Giants.
See thats whats wrong with the soft ass reporters we have now in the bay area afraid to speak up and say something about a crappy team like the San Francisco Giants. Just report about what you see on the field and nothing else? I disagree entirely dgg.
Snark and venom and speculation have nothing to do with good, solid reporting.
If you’re “disagreeing entirely” with me, then you’re also disagreeing entirely with Lefty as well.
Im disagreeing with her as well if she made the same statement! She isn’t god ya know.
This is what real reporting reads like, Slikk:
“[Matt Moore’s] outing put the game out of reach early. At that point, the only drama was related to Sunday’s game in San Diego. The Giants have not officially ruled Johnny Cueto (groin strain) out but he is considered a long shot.
All three pitchers thought to be competing for the spot start took the mound Wednesday. Matt Cain gave up two runs in two innings. Jake Peavy gave up one in one inning. Rookie Ty Blach pitched three perfect frames. In six September innings, Blach — a call-up — has allowed just one hit and recorded 18 outs on 66 pitches. He certainly is the most intriguing of the bunch right now.”
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/rewind-moore-picks-bad-day-have-bad-day
Look dgg im not trying to be confrontational with ya but to me it’s ok to dig deep and report things about the team rather then just what you see on the field of play. It’s ok to point out lousy hitting , pitching etc…..it’s ok to talk about the inept play of our outfield and it’s ok to report things that you witness in the clubhouse. I understand good reporting but sometimes when a reporter gets down and dirty with it you can sometimes see why a team like the SFG are crap! The field of play does not always tell the entire story I enjoy knowing about the interior aspect of this crappy team and why they’re so bad.
Hank Schulman wrote this analysis:
“Two events contributed to the big first inning. Ehire Adrianza, subbing for Brandon Crawford, could not start a double play on a Seager one-hopper. Moore also did not get a seemingly deserved third strike on a Justin Turner check swing. Moore then walked Turner ahead of an Adrian Gonzalez RBI single and Puig’s blast to right-center.”
There’s no snark, no speculation, no anger. It’s professional, straightforward reporting.
So if you want dry, read Alex or Hank and skip Baggs.
If you want some snark, read Baggs.
If you want heavy, sarcastic snarky stuff, read Brisbee.
This isn’t reporting on WMD’s or campaign financing. This is re-hashing on the stuff that’s plain to see for those watching the game and usually isn’t worth a read.
Now if somebody wants to dig deep, ask some questions and do some real professional reporting about what’s wrong or what’s to come, let’s see it. I have a feeling Baggs can do that if he wants to – but he’s at a place or in a disposition where he doesn’t have to.
Blocked.
Maybe you should apply for the job.
I believe you know a thing or two about venom and snark as well.
We all do, including you. The difference is: Baggarly is supposed to be a reporter. Okay, so he’s angry that he has to sit all the way through these baseball games. Go get a different job then.
I have a feeling he will.
I also know a thing or two about being a professional writer and have written five times as many books as Baggarly has–more if you count new editions.. You can look me up if you care to. There is no “venom and snark” in anything I write as part of my job.
Arschlock.
By the way, GG said someone should look up where the Giants’ OF defense ranks, so I did. Per Fangraphs, #30 in the majors. Dead last.
Overall, the Giants are ranked fairly high defensively, which shows you how good the infield and Buster have been.
Just what we all suspected. Thanks Lefty! I never thought we would be this bad. What a devolution!
SF is 24th by DRS (-15), 18th by UZR (-1.8), 19th by UZR/150 (-0.8). What metric did you see that ranked the OF 30th?
Anyone want to win the wildcard?
I still think Cubs won’t win the WS and the wildcard has as good a chance as anyone. I just don’t feel the Cubs have 3 dominant starting pitchers and I can see Chapman imploding.
Meanwhile, the Nats have lost Strasburg and Harper’s supposedly playing through an injury.
Nothing will be worse than watching Cubs Dodgers in NLCS.
The season is not over yet Cynic. The Giants still have time to make their run.
I’m not giving up. It was just a hypothetical.
Absolutely. Ten games to get the one game play-in, at home? Very doable. Unfortunately, the fact that we are losing way more tough games than we’re winning makes me skeptical.
If we choke this all away, takes some shine off those three rings.
I’m actually wondering if I’m going to bother watching much of the postseason. I usually always do, but I’m so disheartened by how this season is gone, I’m kind of ready to be done with it. Maybe catch up on some other TV or, I don’t know, do some work. 🙂
I watched “Poldark Revealed” on Roku last night after the score became 8-2.
Starts on Sunday. What will happen to Cornwall with Ross in prison. Anyone else think Demelza will take the lead?
This is great, Sgbssfg! I thought I was the only one here watching Poldark. Yes, I think Demelza will take the lead. I like this Demelza much better than the Demelza portrayed in the books.
How can you miss Poldark and handsome. Besides, he looks a great deal like our Brandon C.
Aidan Turner made a smart decision to stay with Poldark and turn down the offer to play the next James Bond.
You can always follow the Dartmouth coed vollyball team, theyre pretty good i hear. Picked to finish 3rd in their division.
Just the fact that you, a dyed-in-the-wool Giants and baseball fan, would say that sums up this entire epic collapse. Gotta say, I’ve had the same thoughts.
I haven’t seen the schedule yet but I’m sure MLB will do its best to keep anyone from watching the playoffs just like they did last year. 2PM start times on the FS1 channel!
Fangraphs Center Fied defensive rankings for 2016: Denard Span is 15th out of 17 candidates. Number 17 will shock you:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0
#16, Adam Jones, is a shocker, too. He’s a four-time Gold Glove winner.
Yes. That’s why I think some of the advanced metrics don’t pass the eye test… Though I Span’s ranking is about what I expected.
It really is shocking. We know Pagan was dreadful in CF last year–dead last–which is why they took the difficult step of signing a replacement and moving Angel to LF. It’s pretty ironic that the next guy up has been almost as bad.
Yup. The Front Office is going to make some hard choices this offseason. Personally, I would consider platooning Mac and Parker in left. Don’t know about CF with the Span contract….
I think they should go after a free agent outfielder, but they may not get anyone good–sluggers don’t usually sign with the Giants because of the park. Huff, Burrell, and Morse were exceptions because they were down and out and it was a chance to rebuild their careers.
In other words: Yoenis Cespedes is not walking through that door.
So…Parker, Mac, Slater…maybe Duggar before too long? Get used to it.
Cespedes would be my pick but you are probably correct. He would fill so many needs for us though.
That, but also the solid backup OF with legit cred, plays all three positions, good PH and defender. They’re out there for $5-6MM, one or two year deal. Giants are missing a huge opportunity if they don’t play Williamson every day and find out what they have.
Sounds like Gregor Blanco.
2-3 years ago Gregor Blanco. Perfect example: they’re out there.
Nuñez?
For the outfield?
Yup.
Parker??? OK!
I don’t know what rARM stands for, but if it’s what I think, he’s more like -10 than -2
So, if I switch the filter to LF, I see Duvall at the top?? Am I looking at it right? It looks like he’s 2nd in UZR.
2nd in UZR/150
He defends in a phone booth. Charlie Blackmon defends a CF the size of Montana…looks to me like this is a flawed stat
I think so too. When Mccutchen is dead last you have to wonder.
And Pagan is 5th among LF!
No, if you’ve seen Pirates games this season the McCutchen numbers add up. He looks like Pagan looked last season. Plenty of ill advised dives to attempt to make up for diminishing range, singles turned to triples, etc.
Right. He has warning track defensive power.
Andy Mac at #17 wow
McCutchen been criticized for his D the last couple of years. There was a lot of discussion about switching him and Marte but he’s Mr. Pirate who has rejuvenated that franchise that any such talk was shelved immediately. This has been a bad year according to his standards. And they have Meadows ready in the wings. It’s amazing that McCutchen went from a top 5 player to potentially traded in the offseason to make room for a new, young CF. The Pirates would still get a tremendous haul for him if they decide to trade him.
Is anyone else a little concerned about Panik’s hitting this season? I know he dealt with injury but do we dare call it a regression? Part of me wonders if he was hitting like he did last year, Bochy would have been forced to play him back in his home of the 2 spot. Since he can’t find any consistency, it is easier for Bochy to play him lower or even (gasp) platoon him.
Just a case of never really finding rhythm?
Year: Games/BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
2015: 110/.312/.378/.455/.833
2016: 117/.240/.316/.379/.694
When you consider missing the second half of last season and part of this season, Panik’s had a lot of time to get out of rhythm. He was rolling in his first full year (Aug. 2014-Aug. 2015), but he’s still a young player.
He’s also had lots of time to get into rhythm.
I think most young players can take a year or two to settle in to hitting the big leagues. Look at Puig–he came in like a house on fire, played well for about a year, then slumped and regressed, and now he’s doing better again. He’s still only the same age as Panik.
Harper’s had his ups and downs over several years, too. It’s rare to see a guy like Mike Trout come up and be consistently good from the beginning–that’s why he’s a once-in-a-generation player.
For that matter, Posey wasn’t hitting all that great in early 2011 before he was injured, even after winning Rookie of the Year in 2010.
Yes and know. He is hitting the ball hard in spots and his defense is good. I think between the injuries and general funks, his slump has prolonged. Some bad luck too. Next year will be the real test. I, for one, am a huge Joey baseball fan and I think he will be a standout for the Giants for many years.
I am with you GG, huge fan and hoping that the way this year played out for him is only an outlier and that next year he starts off strong like the Joe P we know.
What you said, GG. Love Joe P.
It was a mistake for him to keep playing this season with delayed mTBI effects. I think Panik learned this the hard way.
When young guys are injured, the climb back to normalcy is tough. Both he and Duffy have been fighting through that. Panik is too pure a hitter and has to sweet of an approach and swing to worry me too much.
It’s just been a year of funk for almost everyone on the Giants…on and off the field. I don’t worry nearly as much about Panik as i do the philosophical approach to the outfield for 2017…
Yes. Tremendous contact rate/low whiff rate. But worrisome BABIP.
Yes, there is absolutely reason for concern. But I still think he’s the Giants 2B of the future. Love his swing and that he has 10-15 HR power as a 2B playing his home games in Yellowstone/AT&T park. However, next year will be a big year for him to re-establish his offense.
Hopefully it’s just an aberration but the last several games I’ve noticed a concerning lack of range at 2B. There are balls he’s just not getting to that I’m kind of shocked. Not saying the Seager ball in 9th on Monday night was one he *should* have had but I was disappointed he didn’t get to it (even if they had him shifted). Kendrick hit a single to RF last night, admittedly it was hit hard, that I was shocked he didn’t get. The defensive metrics seem to indicate he’s fine so maybe I’m just off, but it just seems to me his range over the last several weeks has been lacking.
Shifty Wotus is the biggest issue on these balls just getting through
Nahh, that’s on that Yehuda Goldfarbe guy.
Wotus makes the calls. Wotus owns it. Just like Bruce owns the pitching changes.
are pitchers missing spots? A shift is designed to not only defend a hitters tendency but also to sync with pitch location.
Shifts are grossly overrated and causing more harm than good on the vast majority of hitters shifts
Depends. I think Brandon Belt hits about .240 vs. shift and .300 otherwise.
Shift wisely.
let’s see, balls are going over the heads of outfielders and walls and out of the reach of fielders. YES! PITCHERS ARE MISSING SPOTS.
Houston, we have a problem.
Damn i fire up the ol desk top around 7ish and i look at the time of the comments and some of yall posted 1 hr ago and im like dang and you’re on west coast time lol.
I get up early. I wake up naturally just before dawn. Our days up here are getting shorter so it’s good to get up before dawn and have the full day ahead.
We need dgg to to ask our intrepid young reporter to ask the Giants trainer what is the deal with Denard Span’s arm/shoulder.
I see some kind of shoulder injury; either some kind of impingement or partial tear. He doesn’t elevate his arm above his shoulder, comes sideways and what is perhaps more disconcerting is what appears to be a hesitancy in taking the ball ball in the throwing motion. I would hope that over the offseason he could get an issue cleaned out or have surgical repair. Then hit the therapy and get some zip back into the throws. Some zip is all that is asked.
If that doesn’t happen, then the rest of his contract is really bad news. It’s too bad that it runs two more years – you’d think Evans could have signed a player coming off surgery to a 1 year deal with option, but suede goats. With runners taking extra bases right in front of him, he has to hit over .300 with strong OBP and some pop to justify playing time. You know the Giants will run him out there next year and give him every chance to hit before swallowing the remains of a contract like that.
So somebody Twitter Alex and tell him to do his job and find out what the deal is with Span’s shoulder – do it for Giants Extra, do it for the fans. Or maybe somebody email Dave Groeschner. Maybe he can tell us.
Spot on. Span’s arm is a major liability right now. Forget his range and tepid offensive performance. Any ball hit to him is pretty much an automatic extra base. Teams don’t even think twice on running on him. Gorkys Hernandez should start every single of the remaining games in Center in my opinion. It’s the kind of tough decision that needs to be made and I love the energy he brings to the games.
i hope he gets the surgery and it takes 2 yrs of healing.
Sit his butt for rest of season and have Gorkys in CF.
No, but definitely platoon and use Gorkys for late inning D. Get over it, Denard.
I think Span can still provide value over the length of the contract. He’s a disappointment really because he hasn’t provided the same kind of value the team has gotten lucky finding on the scrap heap from guys like Blanco and Torres.
Am hoping this return to San Diego will reverse the “freaky Friday” moment that sent them on their godawful post all star break spiral.
Would like to see Bochy use his lineup from Tuesday again, and come Sunday, give Blach a chance. Perhaps the Padres will react the way the Giants have when seeing a pitcher for the first time.
One can dream.
Absolutely should happen. Almost certainly will not.
Really interesting piece from Jon Heyman on Evans missing out on Scout’s boy Melancon. Sounds like they tried really hard for a closer but couldn’t find the right match. Apparently the Yankees wanted Panik for Miller!
http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/nl/san-francisco-giants/heyman-giants-gm-laments-melancon-miss/
I would not give up Panik for Miller. Good job Evans.
That was the decision. Panik? No way. Duffy? Way…especially if you get team control years.
So Duffy’s 2 month slump is more reason to trade him than Panik’s 2016 slump? Dunno, TF. Duffy was/is a baller, greta fielder,almost the exact replica of Panik.
I’m saying Panik is the stronger pedigree, is all. Love them both.
I’m not sold that he is, TF…
He (Duffy) was hurt.
And for a starter.
This is old news by Jon Heyman. Bobby Evans hinted long ago that the Yankees wanted Panik for Miller. The Yankees have long wanted Panik.
Local boy. Makes sense.
Panik would look like a throwback in Yankee pinstripes. Not sure about production but he’d look the part.
In hindsight, they may have needed Melancon AND Smith.
Speaking of Smith, he’s given up 1 run in his last 14 appearances with a WHIP well under 1. If anything, he should be getting more responsibility. They gave up a lot to get him, and he’s earned it.
Yes…that big hoss settled in.
closer?
‘Been sayin…
Yes, they gave up more than I would have.
This team is such a enigma. We hang in there and hope but they have been the league’s worst. Now 10 game left they are going to suddenly get it together? Anyone optimistic about facing the Padres. Law of avg’s says G’s should win some of these 4 games. I can’t imagine them losing 10 straight to the Padres! But they are limping into Petco, surely down about what happened in LA. Maybe they are determined to
Padres will be playing a lot of their kids. Some have been called up in the last couple of weeks and will be on the field if they stay on plan. If they don’t, then something else is afoot.
Keep an eye on this kid named Hunter Renfroe. Kid can mash.
Welp just 10 more games then all of us will be released from solitary confinement and off to general population!! I think I’ll catch up previous episodes of Flipping Out on the Bravo channel.
I wish I could say I was looking forward to the hockey season but my team, the Canadiens, traded away our best player, Subban!
WHO?
P.K. Subban, a star defenseman and all around superstar, for Shea Weber, a great but aging defenseman. Long story.
I thought it was a ridiculous deal myself GG
It will haunt the Canadiens the way the Roy trade did, for at least a decade.
A decade is a looooong time for Les Habitants.
Really? I missed that. He’s a great player, from what I know.
He is a superstar but the coach did not like him. It was a power struggle and the wrong guy won.
Me and Mrs. Crawnik have been watching the World Cup of Hockey. Pretty exciting. USA got bounced out of tournament, as expected. Team North America is young, fast and exciting to watch; 3 things I would like to see when it comes to our Giants in 2017.
Good hockey. Team Canada is tough to beat! (Yay!)
Will Zoila move back into the house???
I need to write a piece about Matt Moore. He seems to have some major psychological/mechanical issues. He is so dominant one start and so very mortal on others. I am sure the Giants brass will address this in the offseason and in Spring Training. He had some mean bad luck last night, let’s be honest. I think there is an adjustment period for him, coming from the retirement capital of baseball to championship city.
They were fired up and likely did their homework as their last meeting wasn’t all that successful.
The Dodgers figured him out.
The Giants defense did not help.
True. I was just thinking as I watched Moore pitch last night about how the Dodgers supposedly can’t hit lefties.
He’s 4-5 with a 5 ERA with the Gints – really 5th starter material.
When he’s good he’s really good. When he’s bad he nibbles – walks/hits guys, falls apart and gives up crooked numbers.
You could see it building up in the 1st last night, he looked so nervous that Puiggy couldn’t wait to hit.
Cain Lincicum Zito and Peaveyesque
Well….weird rollercoaster sample size. I disagree with 2HH…he is nothing like Cain or Peavy. a game like last night shoots up an ERA.
Your comment is spot on…except he’s much, much better than 5th starter material, regardless of those stats
Yeah, he’s a solid three once he figures out mechanics and pitch selection. Figure it out quickly, kid.
Still love the stuff. Take the bad with the really good I suppose. Some poor defense really helped turned the tide last night. There may be times when he needs to back off the fastball and get more command.
He also doesn’t know how to stop the bleeding when bad things happen. One thing I love about guys like Madbum, when things unravel they put a stop to it and limit the damage. Moore gets too flustered and the bottom falls out quickly with him. Witness the Rockies game, last night..
And he doesn’t get much in game help. Why no mound visits when the disastrous first was unfolding?
Weather, too–when he pitches at AT&T especially. Outdoors as well.
Meant for below…
BTW a beautiful shot of The Dr, SurfMaui and GG!!!
True that. Together we’re Giants.
Giants owe a big thank you to the Braves. Sweeping the Mets at Citi Field! Yeah, a lot of that is on the Mets, but Braves are playing it out the right way. I was dogging them earlier this season, but they’re playing a lot better. Dansby Swanson (hometown kid) is a rising star. One of the guys they got for Shelby Miller (snicker).
Good point. If the Mets had won 2 of 3 games, things would be looking a lot more dire..
Yep. Braves did their job, Giants not so much.
Thank you Mets. Inciarte playing well too. Blair has a had a tough go of it and has diminished stuff from when I scouted him at Visalia, but perhaps adequate 5th/6th starter material next year.
JP12 could use a few AB’s against blair to get back on track…
Yes. Yes he could. Almost heartbreaking watching a guy that looks like a .300 hitter hitting .240.
excuse my ignorance, but you said something about his babip. isn’t it kind of low, which would be a good thing, or is it just evening out from last year’s high number? sorry, but i was raised way back up in the woods among the evergreens, and wasn’t taught very well.
He’s got a nifty low K% of 9. His BABIP is only .245 this year – and was .330 last year.
His line drives are down which is plain to see – lots of pop ups I do believe.
There’s something mechanical which ain’t quite right. He not striking the ball at the right depth in the K zone is seems. Out in front?
A low BABIP can also mean a player isn’t hitting the ball very hard. It’s not just a matter of random good or bad luck.
thank you..so it’s not bad luck, even though puig must’ve had a horseshoe up his ass to make the play last night, like i was hoping.
Luck can obviously play a role, but it’s much more than that. Panik’ just had a bad year. Hopefully, he bounces back in 2017. He sure looks like a hitter, even when he’s not hitting.
I think Panik’s still hurt some.
If he’s still hurt after a year, maybe it’s permanent.
I think they’ve lost too much of their pitching to carry this thing much further. Their salvation will be the demise of the Giants.
Wonder if our pitching staff would have been stronger if Ty Blach had been given a chance to pitch? No, don’t wonder. Know. Two strong years in AAA, this year better than last, now two solid mop-up jobs this month.
Changes in approach have to be made, and not just Bochy.
Once again, as I’ve already said this, but the Giants should have started him vs. the Braves in that late August series at AT&T. Take Cain’s place for one start before Suarez took over, vs. the worst team in the NL, good place to see what you have. Sigh.
on the money, as usual, TF. they knew they needed a 5th starter for next year, especially when it was clear for all to see, except bochy, that cain was not going to be the answer. bochy’s refusal to give the younguns a fair shot is a very big reason for this year’s problems.
Give Blach the start on Sunday, he’s earned it. Cain and Peavy have not. Maybe it’s too little too late but the Giants are *still* in playoff position. Let’s see what Blach can do in his first start and just have a quick hook if he gets in trouble.
you’re right…and yet the organization and Bruce tend to look at the “earned it” category as a Lifetime Achievement Award rather than the Recent Trends Award…I will be shocked…SHOCKED, I tell ya…if Blach gets the start…It’s going to be Cain, and Bruce will say “He’s been in these pennant races before and his stuff looks good”
Barf.
Blach has looked good in his two outings. Peavy and Cain have shown everyone who they are. There’s no good reason not to give Blach the shot, which is why I believe it will be Cain or Peavy.
I’ve been thinking, for some time that this year’s Bochy is significantly different from previous years’ Bochy.
[I’ve had to reload a couple of times and missed some new posts here, so I don’t know if anybody brought this up yet.]
We all know Bruce has Vet-love and he has persisted in giving over-the-hill players and has-beens an extra opportunity that younger players don’t get. I find this year different.
[brief aside: he was asked yesterday about SS and who might play since BC is down. He said AD and possibly Nuñez. On follow-up, he was asked about KT possibly playing there. It was as if Bochy didn’t hear the question; he said AD or Nuñez would play there. He went on to say that Gillaspie or “Tommy” would fill in at third. ]
Sorry, but I don’t know what to make of that.
Anyway, to continue; this year his failure to relent on the old guys has gone on waaaay longer than ever before. Something is different. The outfield is the big point of difference. I don’t think there’s anyone that’s wanted to see Span and Pagan thrown out there day after day with barely a break and if others are given any shot it’s only for a day. By now, Bruce has normally relented to pressure and reality and thrown some young guys out there. Look what happened with KT, Panik, Duffy and others in previous years. Why is it different this year. Could he have out-stubborned everyone else? Is there a screw loose? I know he’s successful and very good, but I think he’s either lost it or something else is up. I’m sorry, I’ve lost patience and it’e too late for him to correct this ship.
Agreed…something IS different and we are left to guess…
Does he have a poor relationship with Evans and is pulling rank? Showing Evans up with a “this is what you gave me to work with”? Doubling down on his style? Losing his edge?
I’ve said this too often, but i still believe his lack of internal governors is a huge part of the issue : Flann is gone below – to tell him IN THE GAME as well as after in wine sessions what he thought Bruce whiffed on – and Sabes has stepped away above.
It’s a bit like Kap once he lost his offensive line protection…a little hair trigger panicky and not as individually natural as he looked before
I also think that if Flann had been really happy, he’d still be in 3rd-base box.
Excellent point. Well that solves it, then.
Tim Flannery should be the manager of the San Francisco Giants.
Well said. Bochy has always had that excessive “vet love” but this year he seems to double down on it when his team has been the worst in baseball in the second half. Gorkys has provided a spark to go along with his great arm and great D. Nunez has provided a spark when hitting leadoff -his baserunning Monday night *should* have singlehandedly won the game. Yet Span and Pagan are continually run out there in the 1-2 spots despite continually deflating this team.
I also was not a fan of running Cain and Peavy out there again and again and again. Blach earned a shot that he never got. And although his appearances have all come in low leverage he’s yet to allow a run in the big leagues. And then of course, there’s our resident favorite, Casilla. The incredibly stubborn usage of Casilla has crushed this team’s spirit again and again. He should’ve given someone else a chance months ago. You don’t wait until he blows a *crucial* save against a team you’re fighting for the wild card spot in mid-September to replace him
I am *not* in any way advocating Bochy get replaced. But IMO this is the worst job he’s done in a Giants uniform. This is the most difficult stretch of baseball that I (or most of us) have ever watched.
Nuñez NOT leading off last night is still bewildering to me.
That was one of those decisions that brings Bruce into a gigantic spotlight on his decisions this season. there are many…but “here we go again”.
If I had a buck for every time I’ve said that…
Span had 2 hits and a walk, which means he’s secured the lead off spot at least through next July.
He’s like an STD
At a minimum, he could take baby steps. Put in defensive replacements in the outfield in the 8th and 9th. Rest the regulars when it is obvious the game is lost.
Bochy won’t get replaced because he’s under contract for three more years for a lot of money. But I’ll go further than you did. I wish he would retire or move upstairs or whatever. I have a lot of anxiety about the next few years with him at the helm.
Think of the first class draft choices you’ll get to follow!
Aubrey Huff played all year long in 2011, and that was when Belt was the hottest prospect on the team.
Future HOF Buster Posey had to have Bengie Molina traded to get his shot…
And half of 2012, pretty much until he had his nervous breakdown or whatever that was.
Thanks … I heard the same pre-game interview and just passed it off to hearing loss but maybe it is more. I admire you guys that can take a more critical view of Bochy. I see a guy that has won three WS with sub-par talent and think he has got to be a genius all the time. [Even though I know No One is right all the time.]
Bochy did a great job managing those championship years. Does that mean he’s above criticism for doing his job poorly THIS year? (And yes, I know that’s a matter of opinion.) If I do my job poorly this year, can I say “Well, but look how great I was in 2013?” I’m still cashing my paychecks. I’m still responsible to students and colleagues this year.
Exactly – we meet with our investors constantly. Our totals from 2 months ago are old news. I/we must constantly improve. Now, I get that baseball is random in it’s results…but funny enough, not entirely. I face competition every day. If I lose, regardless of two years ago and wild success, I’m out.
That’s life. Bruce’s results this season have invited sharp review. That performance assessment will be dotted with more “Needs Improvement” than “Exceeds Expectations”
Wow, this is cool thread of conversation. I think criticism of Bochy is certainly fair game, but it should be balanced against his success, which is still relatively recent and enormously significant. Also, it’s one thing to criticize, and it’s another to draw conclusions, like suggesting that he is done as manager of SFG. I think every year a guy like him has to sit down with family and make a decision to continue or not. He’s not that old. He’s really in his prime managing years. And who else is a better manager? Could the Giants get a better manager? Also, he is who he is in some ways. In other ways, he has to keep learning. keep track of what’s changing around him, and adjust accordingly.
Some people can dish it out, but have a problem taking it. I’m glad the blocking option exists to protect their delicate feelings.
You’re still loved by some of us.
Some people here are very nice and never take shots at anyone, which is perfectly fine. Some of us fall into another category. If you can dish it out, you should be able to take it without folding. I respect those who can do that, including you. Now back to disagreeing.
It doesn’t mean I don’t think you’re still a pain in the ass.
I can’t dispute that.
Hugs!
Shifting to some minor gears, Arizona Fall League games start October 11th.
Added to the pitching side of the roster are Giants prospects Rodolfo Martinez (gas man RH reliever), Tyler Mizenko (RH sinkerballer), Tyler Rogers (RH sidewinder), and Chris Stratton (former first rounder with probable relief future).
They will join Ryder Jones, Hunter Cole, and Aramis Garcia in the desert.
Ryder (powered up this year) and Aramis (missed part of the season due to a HBP) are both MyGuys and I hope they can make a statement in the AFL. Rudulfo is one of the CloserInWaiting™ but I saw him in SJ blow a save (even with 100 MPH) on a HR. Learning how to use their speed means only a few really have a chance. But the Giants do have more than one. Tyler Rogers is one of those.
Just read Baggs piece. I know some on here were offended by it, and I do think the “self absorbed” comment on MadBum is a low blow, but the rest is pretty accurate. It’s a scathing write-up, but it’s well earned. I know he isn’t supposed to be writing op-eds but it’s not really an op-ed when the majority of the scathing content is factual.
Isn’t it for his editor to determine if he’s not supposed to write op-eds? I mean, he’s got a boss, right?
I agree, just that some were mad because they deemed it more of an op-ed and that he’s not supposed to write op-eds. I don’t necessarily feel that way. I just want someone who tells it like it is. It shouldn’t be a fan-style opinion piece, but that write-up wasn’t. I had no problem with it other than the shot at MadBum.
When people don’t like someone, that person’s faults and missteps become magnified. Like a confirmation bias.
Ayup. Especially with Baggs, he seems to be a lightening rod on here. Love my fellow Gaucho who does a great job for CSN Bay Area but for those being honest with themselves it is abundantly clear who the superior writer is.
I think they’re both good writers. Baggarly is more experienced–he’s at least 10 years older than Alex–and he’s developed more of his own style and personal voice. But again, it comes down to what readers prefer. Some people enjoy Baggs’s flair. Others prefer Alex’s relative objectivity. To each his/her own.
Bingo. To each their own. Which was why dgg’s incessant finger wagging at Baggs was tiresome and which is why she blocked me 🙂
And that’s fair. I also use the penalty box as a way of “putting socks on someone’s fingers”.
And Brandon Belt and Denard Span and Matt Cain…
You didn’t think calling Cain and Peavy an expensive janitorial staff was a cheap shot? I do. OK, maybe it’s factual in the sense that they’re highly paid and they were doing mop-up work, but it’s still pretty mean-spirited. Those are both fine professionals who’ve had great careers, and both do extensive charity work. Peavy’s up for an award right this minute for his good work. Why go out of your way to be nasty to/about them?
The “janitorial staff” comment was a bit cheap, but they *are* highly paid mop-up guys so not sure expensive janitorial staff vs. expensive mop-up guys makes much of a difference. I guess I just didn’t focus much on the pot-shots at Bum and Peavy/Cain as much as the nature of the piece. He took the Giants to task and rightfully so. This team is on the verge of potentially the biggest collapse in baseball history and the writers have been tip-toeing around it until now. I am not an easily offended person so I don’t put much focus on the pot-shots. It was an honest and critical write-up that I appreciated for the most part.
It’s accurate.
It’s also important to remember that he writes from the perspective of having a great deal of inside knowledge, much of which he can’t state directly.
I get the feeling that he has been gray-balled a bit. Not exactly “black-balled” but he doesn’t seem to have the exact same access Alex might have. Maybe not access, more openness.
There is certainly no love lost on the Giants club for Baggarly. I suppose the mess he made for himself there couldn’t have happened either without Cain’s buy in. I hate to think Baggarly could be that petty.
Even before the thing with Romo in 2014, there was him “scooping” Melky Cabrera’s positive drug test in 2012. Cain was (is?) the union rep for the team, and he angrily confronted Baggarly about it, and Baggs had to back down and apologize. Of course, history quickly showed that Baggarly was right about Melky, but he still jumped the gun. Going even further back, he “broke” the news that Huff’s wife had filed for divorce before the 2012 season–but neglected to report on the other half of the story, which was that they had reconciled and she’d called off the divorce. So it was just half-true gossip that I’m sure caused the Huffs embarrassment and distress.
All of this is to say there’s a lot of history between that clubhouse and Baggarly. Even if one loves Baggs’s writing style, they’re kidding themselves if they don’t think that grudge sneaks into his reporting every now and then. He’s still a human being.
Or maybe, he thinks that writing a penetrating, insightful piece will recover the lost clicks he suffered with the demise of GE. It’s my experience that most editors see the writers as the attraction to their offering. My impression of the San Francisco Giants fan base, at least here, is that the community itself is the attraction, not the writer. So maybe, Baggarly’s choice of words and editorial attitude is in service of a goal in a ‘game’ he either doesn’t know the rules of, or chooses to overlook. My personal opinion of Baggarly, formed by admittedly one off site email exchange, is that he is a far cry from the crusading honest broker of the game he pretends to be. But that’s only one man’s POV, admittedly.
I actually think dgg was on to something below. His falling out with the team a couple years ago and leaving Comcast was very awkwardly timed with his second book about the Giants only months away from being published. He came back to the Merc so he’d still have an “insider” platform from which to sell books, but that doesn’t mean he was happy about covering a team that publicly boycotted him and may have gotten him pushed out at Comcast.
That could very well have contributed, I don’t know. DGG usually has a pretty good take on the touchy feely stuff around baseball. To tell you the truth, on first pass anyway, that stuff just goes right over my head. A man’s ego being a driver to his choices and mistakes wouldn’t be a new thing, IME.
it was THE ONLY part that was wrong…but that was WAYYYY wrong, espcially two days after the fact when it appeared both sides dealt with it and moved on…Baggs and his festering attacks are unprofessional.
Whose Baggs? I stick with http://www.togetherweregiants.com :-))
You know, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see/read Baggarly here as a poster at some point in the near future.
I wonder with out us expressing our opinions if he feels it necessary to try to express his more?
GG, great post game rap.
I’ll tell what isn’t the answer for the OF in 2017: signing or trading for some vet in his 30s who’s already going downhill.
I looked up all the free agent outfielders for 2017. There’s not a single one under 30, which I guess isn’t that surprising. The most interesting are Cespedes and Fowler, who can both opt out of their current deals, and Reddick, who is just 30. Beyond that you have your John Jay/Cameron Maybin types–and really, really old guys like Coco Crisp and Beltran and Ichiro.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html
We have to rebuild from within somehow, unless we spend on Cespedes. Another option is a trade….
Pass on Cespedes. He’s likely to get a nine figure deal and he will almost assuredly break down well before expiration of that contract. He’s already had numerous nagging injuries over the last 2-3 years. I could see that contract becoming a disaster. Time for the youth movement in the OF.
He is tempting though… He is a special player. Your points are well taken however.
He sure is fun to watch thou… and I agree it is a HUGE injury gamble. He is getting nicked up a lot in his 20s……
It’s an Angel Pagan type track record at 2 to 3 times the stakes. I’m a little too risk adverse for that if it’s my money. But then again, it’s not……
He won’t come here. We can just forget about him, and we can forget about Aroldis Chapman (regardless of our varying opinions about his personal/legal troubles). Chapman is ON the Cubs. The Cubs traded a lot to get him, and they’ll pay what it takes to keep him. Other players, including Lester and Zobrist, have turned down bigger offers from the Giants to go play for the Cubs. Pretty much if the Cubs want someone, they’ll get him right now, and I’m sure that they’ll want Chapman.
Melancon, Melancon, Melancon!
I think it’s a given that they’re going very hard after a top closer.
Yes, it us such a hole this year that they have to; just like SP was the hole last year.
I am picturing 2014 KC level then: Have a lead after six and you line up Law, Smith and Melancon?
With Strickland, Gearrin, Kontos, Okert and Osich in defined roles. That looks real nice.
Barring a trade for a younger outfielder, I think they need to go with their own young guys and really see what they have.
How about sticking with the Farm and gudiing one of the Big Bats in that direction?
Shaw, Brusa, etc. will not get a chance at 1B with Belt-Posey lined up for 7 years but might pass as LF’ers.
I think Jay is the value pick in that field. And he plays CF, which the Gs have a gaping need for. Unless you have faith in Gorkys…. lots of faith in Gorkys, enough faith that he’ll Andres Torres that Rowand of a Span…..
I personally think you have to give Bochy no choice on the Mac/Parker platoon in LF. And guess what, the team won in June when it was doing it.
Jay is a slightly cheaper Denard Span. He’s put up a 93 wRC+ the last 3 seasons (Span is at 94 this year and people think his bat is a disaster) with a .076 ISO. His defense is better, but really Jay is a nice guy to have when your team already has a decent outfield.
Cut that out, you’ve been thinking again.
When is Trout available?
2029.
Close
2021 UFA @age 30 $35+Mil/yr
I’ve been saying Braun, but Kuip said this morning (KNBR) that the Puig-for-Braun trade is a done deal. It’ll be finalized after the season.
Even if anyone disagreed with my suggestion…it isn’t going to happen. So all is safe 🙂
Good. I hope the Dodgers DO trade Puig for Braun. That would be a stupid deal that the Dodgers will live to regret.
Yup…that immediately downgrades the Dodgers talent level.
But improves their professionalism…regardless of Braun’s PED past.
No it doesn’t….Puig and his antics are one thing…Braun ruined a man’s life with his lies. there is NO WAY it improves their professionalism
He also robbed Kemp of an MVP award he deserved in 2011 and possibly the Dbacks a chance to play in the NLCS and maybe the World Series. Braun hit .500 during that Division Series while all hopped up on PEDs.
In other words: zero character and born to be a Dodger!
I agree 100% about Braun. He sets the bar for scumbags, IMO. I believed him, then to find out the facts ended any positive thoughts I had about him. He’s the archetype for a narcissistic low life.
To be balanced about this whole thing, the Giants had a guy that broke HR records and impacted other player’s abilities to win awards and other teams to advance to the WS. He was less-than-truthful about things and allowed his childhood friend stay in jail as a result of not testifying. He also had his own “wing” in the Giants clubhouse.
What Braun did was wrong, but I would bet his level of remorse against #25 any day of the week.
Welcome to today? Bonds was a jerk. But you are saying that LA’s professionalism would go up. I’m saying it wouldn’t.
Regardless of what you think of Braun, the way he conducts himself “on the field” is much more professional than many of the Dodgers…and I’ll just leave it at that.
My Bonds comparison was only made because of the comments pertaining to all the injustices of Braun’s actions.
Here’s an article about the guy that Braun (and/or his representation) accused of tampering with his urine. Obviously a tactic to create “reasonable doubt”; not that I’m condoning it. He sounds like a happy guy that forgives Ryan Braun.
http://www.sportspickle.com/2013/07/disgraced-ryan-braun-urine-handler-im-actually-very-happy-in-my-new-urine-free-job
People understandably hate the idea, but I really think it’s possible that trading Bumgarner could become the thing to do if they’re not doing well (and he is) at the deadline next season. Imagine that what we’re seeing continues into 2017, none of the Giants’ young outfielders look like much, it appears that Cueto will opt out, and the Giants are two seasons away from either losing Bumgarner or committing a couple hundred million dollars to him through his mid to late 30s. Sometimes you have to be bold. Does Posey have a no trade?
Yes, Posey has a no trade.
I think they both do.
You are right …”people understandably hate the idea”.
That’s how the Cubs built what they have. People also hate the idea of watching bad baseball. They haven’t enjoyed watching Matt Cain make huge money while pitching poorly.
The smart teams don’t gut to “rebuild”. the Cardinals, Dodgers and a few other are riding along with our Giants on the “always in the hunt” train.
There is no need at this point to overreact to the horror of only being in a Wild card chase
Those teams have farm systems that have allowed them to do that. And I’m not talking about this point. My scenario only comes into play if the bad baseball continues into next season and it becomes clear that the Giants’ younger guys don’t have what it takes.
My problem is that I don’t truly know if the answer is in our system or not….because they rarely get a chance to show one way or the other.
The ones that have were “forced” chances through injury, trades, etc. If Bruce manages the way he has – and there is NO indications that he will change – then such a trade will still be a ridiculous risk because we simply will not know if those answers are lurking below the Span Pagan Pence Cain Barge that is covering the surface
That’s why you can’t give him another veteran, free agent outfielder.
Are you Brian Cashman in disguise?
Bumgarner might have no trade clause, Posey does, Crawford does, Belt has a limited no trade .
I’d highly doubt it. He didn’t sign that kind of a big deal.
It was a big deal in terms of years, and the money was high at the time for a non arbitration eligble player .
Bumgarner, with his contract, is one of the (if not THE) most valuable players in baseball. You don’t trade a 26 year old LH ace in his prime under an extremely team friendly contract. There is no way to match value. Who are they going to trade him for, Trout? I’m serious. Anything short of a Trout, Harper, Machado, Betts type player cannot even be entertained. And obviously that’s not going to happen. There is no way you accept prospects, regardless of how highly regarded, for MadBum. Plus it would be a bad message sent by the organization that IMO would negatively impact other players (both on the Giants and other teams) view of the organization.
I understand the general premise, but MadBum is *not* the type of guy for that move. And I don’t think this team is as far off as you’re making it sound. Adding a top tier closer and seeing what the youth movement can do in the OF may be all this team needs.
Read what I said. I wouldn’t even think about doing something like that until I was sure that they weren’t going to find the answers from within their own system.
I don’t agree with trading Bum under any scenario. Read what *I* wrote. With his contract he’s perhaps the most valuable player in all of baseball. Thus, if the Giants trade him, they can’t match value. He is perhaps the most coveted asset in all of baseball: a young LH innings eating ace in his prime who has been utterly dominant in the playoffs. This team has enough (young) surrounding talent and enough resources where they will never be in a position like the Phillies were with Cole Hamels. Even if the Giants play in the first half of 2017 the way they are playing now you don’t trade him. Even if they need to rebuild, you rebuild *around* him, not by getting rid of him.
I could not have said it better myself.
LAD would buy him to go with Opie. I’d like to add Opie to SF.
It would be an adventure, and a great move to get some very high draft choices.
How would it lead to draft choices other than by leading to a series of last place finishes as a result of no longer having an ace?
That’s what the Cubs did. They traded established players for prospects. Then they suffered through a couple of bad seasons which led to high draft position and more excellent prospects (hello, Kris Bryant). Once they started improving, they added to what they had with some veteran free agents. It’s worked pretty well, but you also have to make smart trades.
The Cubs have never traded anyone near Bum’s caliber. Neither did Houston. I’m not saying this strategy is terrible, if warranted. The Phillies waited too long and were in that position due to some horrendous contracts (predominantly Howard’s). When the Cubs traded Samardzija that’s a bit different than trading someone of Bumgarner’s level. With his contract, Bumgarner is a top 10, probably top 5, player in baseball. I cannot recall a team that went into a rebuild trading someone of that caliber. Also, with the Cubs, they made some great international signings to supplement, it wasn’t all through the draft. I was pounding on the Moncada drum incessantly but the Giants passed. Jury is still out but he looks like he might be an elite infielder.
As much as we might value Bumgarner that highly, others do not. You might recover 30-40% of his true value, as we measure it, in a trade package. But to most fans, it would be seen as an act of betrayal unrivaled in Giants baseball history. This ‘we are Giants’ schtick that fills AT&T would evaporate overnight. The GM that did it would need 24 hour body guards.
If Bumgarner was is still pitching well next season, he’d bring a huge haul.
LOL, you bet. You must have Nero’s blood in you…a belief in fiddle play during an act of creative destruction.
Bumgarner’s tremendous value is what makes the idea of trading him intriguing. It’s not too hard to envision a scenario where the Giants could devolve into a bad team (I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt on this second half). Panik has had a bad season. Nunez is a free agent after next year. Pagan will be gone, Span is Span and Pence continues to get older. No one is the minor leagues looks like a can’t miss prospect.
On the pitching side, Cueto may be gone after next season, Moore has been up and down, Cain is toast, Peavy will be gone, and the rest are question marks, although Beede had an excellent year in AA. The bullpen needs rebuilding and/or a great deal of improvement. Maybe the young players will step up, but it’s far from a sure thing. Is being average, or slightly below, better than being being bad for a little while in order to be excellent again?
They still have Samardizja, who these days is looking more like a 3-4, so even if Cueto walks they have an SP core of Bum-Moore-Samardizja locked up through 2019. That’s pretty damn solid. Beede looks like he has a lot promise and maybe Blach is a solid, cheap #5. Arroyo has promise, albeit his mediocre stint in AA. It’s not like the Giants don’t have the resources to retain Nunez if need be. The FA class after 2017 will be the best in the history of baseball. You are looking at absolute worst case scenario. The rest of the NL West other than the Dodgers still stinks. Heck, the rest of the NL other than the Cubs is no sure thing. I just don’t envision, even worst case scenario, the Giants being in the position you’re intimating. If I thought the Giants were headed for years of .500 or lower I would probably agree with you. I just think they have the current pieces, along with adding ancillary pieces (e.g. Melancon), that they will contend in the future.
Mine is definitely the worst case scenario, but so is this second half.
It would be the classic lose now to win later move, Cubs like as TO said.
it’s an idea worth considering, since the same way smardge’s arm is younger than his true age, since he didn’t pitch much until later than most pitchers, bum’s arm has to be older than 26, since he pitched so many innings at a young age.
I don’t hate idea. Let’s face it, pretty soon the team will way overpay him and for too many years and he could easily, maybe even likely, wear out just as Cain did though I don’t think Bumgarner would lose the fire and edge that he has even though it happens to many of the players who sign crazy dollar deals.
i think i’ll have a nice greek salad with extra feta cheese, and a piece of baklava for dessert. just my way of saying thanks to my friend, GG…
I’m putting a picture of Christina Koletsa on my desk to honor Greek Giant. It may cause a rift with Beauty, but that’s how strongly I feel about Greek right now
she’s really not my type. oh, my wife just stepped out. HUBBA HUBBA!!!
Is the future Giants center fielder withering in Washington without a place to play behind breakout rookie star Trea Turner?
Michael Taylor is hitting a pretty abysmal .220 something for the second consecutive season, but he has legitimate center field tools and he has legitimate power. There are some similarities with another buy low player I hyped last winter: Jake Marisnick of the Astros. Marisnick did not put together a good year with bat, but the defense is still there. Taylor could be a superb defender in SF and just maybe, a guy that hit .313 in AA could cut his hefty K rate and hit something respectable north of .250 with 15-20 HR power and 20 SBs to go with plus defense.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=11489&position=OF
What would it cost? Perhaps one of the young lefties in the bullpen, Osich or Okert.
Kick some tires, Evans.
i’m done w/osich. i don’t think he’ll ever get the command you have to have to be a late inning guy. maybe i’m being premature. Lord knows, i have been before. just ask some of my old girlfriends..
There you go – too teams “done” with certain guys find a match and marriages made in heaven.
mom hanging tough after mon? next one in 2?
hanging tough for sure (although not so much with the IV needle sticking) – doing real good. the marrow stimulating injections (6 days in a row) make her feel more sore tired than the chemo.
Round 3 in 3 weeks from past monday. Thanks, man.
Glad she’s doin ok. Those marrow injections gave my lady some serious pain last year. She said it felt like her bones were cracking from inside.
ouch. Yeah, I hope it doesn’t get that bad. How is your lady doing today and how did it go with the mother in law. Again, sorry I missed you in Sun Valley.
My lady has been back to work since April. Thank god. It’s really opened up some space around the house for me. Until her mom had to come and ruin it all.
play this for her RD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EN5eJf5h_k
Awesome.
she da woman
Word is the Pirates may trade McCutchen in the off-season…if you’re interested.
Always – maybe Cutch in LF time is nigh. But alas, Giants would not have prospects to swing such a deal – unless they were to sell Belt for prospects in some kind of 3 team deal.
I always liked Michael Taylor. I think he has a great chance for stardom.
I thought his breakout would happen this year – then they got Ben Revere and he never got going and struggled when in the lineup.
So…completely in the spirit of these mellow, breezy posts today, I am thinking of getting a juicer. Totally serious. Any suggestions?
Braun
You fell for it. In seconds.
it was intended, goof ball.
Whatever, weirdo. I got ya. Or maybe I didn’t…I really am thinking of getting a juicer. Do you have one? In my advancing years, I cannot ignore the health benefits of non-PED juicing.
Beauty bought some Jack Lalanne contraption. Yippee…they all seem to be a bitch to clean. Jamba Juice. Throw the cup away
Ah, but they now make cold brew juicers. Cold brew is just all the rage these days, Matty Boy.
If you’re willing to spend $300.
my next $300 is for a looper with drums and backing tracks
There ya go. And save up for that Gibson, dude.
Saw a kid playing a Gretsch White Falcon the other night…OH MY GOD…beautiful looks, beautiful sound
Geezus gawd those are awesome. My white 335 does resemble one of those, however.
You should get a Liberace album and a Richard SImmons workout video while you’re at it.
You should watch yourself while you’re at it, Ballwanger.
I’m watching, and I like what I see.
I was gonna eat something for an early dinner. That has changed…
You’re welcome. I’ll post more and save you money on that juicer.
You just smile and the picture sells.
Hey, how about your astronaut friend’s work on the keyboard? He gets a bit undersold in that department, no?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegvworoMX4
No way you can stop me now…
OH absolutely, bud. This is a great VH cut from their best album, in my not so humble opinion.
btw – ma got a Bullet ( not Bulleit ) for her protein shakes.
You got that, brotein bar.
Lolll A Bulleit Bourbon juicer. Now we’re talkin’…
For large citrus.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412LFkaI3cL.jpg
Haha not OJ, bro. I’m thinking kale, spinach, brussel sprouts juicer.
Uggg.
Seriously. TS must’ve sinned horribly and is trying to redeem himself in the most excruciating way possible.
There is no redeeming my sins.
Just so long as you know… I was afraid you were gonna take up jogging next. Maybe get yourself into a Pilates class. I still can’t believe Pontious Pilate was the originator of that. Amazing.
If you wait long, all will be irrelevant.
Ya gotta juice, brah. Feel goods.
You want a successful BM, there are better ways. It’s a fad, but enjoy.
Lol not for BM’s, just for the nutritional value of greens. And drinking em down in a juice seems much easier than gnawing on a celery stalk.
They’ve been eating ‘greens’ by the bail in Alabama and Mississippi for 200+ years, and it hasn’t helped.
cut out the EtOH from your diet (unsolicited, totally)
No way. Never.
Fart away, big boy
Lol you guys are killing me.
His garage is gonna be unbearable.
Hahahaha piss on all of you!!!
((Sorry for the profanity, Greek. I should just block em all.))
Even your piss will reek. Dogs with no nose, can track you.
He’s gonna get bit more than Peachy.
Get the best. Resign Bonds…
My wife and I did a 21-day juice program three years ago. Used a Hamilton Beach model that cost about $60 I think. After the first day or two, we felt terrific the whole time.
Well, at least we are moving on to San Diego. Last night stunk like Sincere’s garage after a cleansing juice cocktail…but we are refreshed after the purge.
Go Giants
Why not a nice garlic asparagus and beer diet.
Or a shot of vodka with a bowl of sauerkraut.
Absolutely. When ya think about it, those six straight losses to the Pads were the best thing that could’ve happened. We’re PRIMED.
I don’t even have a garage, you stooge. But I may get one with the juicer.
It’s more of a shanty?
I park my car in the yard. Keep my mower in the shanty.
That’s where my Korean housekeepers sleep.
Team Happy Ending?
Team Deer in The Headlights.
You both will read all about it one day in the Venison Chronicles. Won’t be for the faint of heart.
What’s the Seement Pond look like?
Lol I alternate between parking in the back yard (which is huge), and on the street, so the grass doesn’t get too flattened.
Does anyone think that management may have been telling Bochy not to use Romo as the 9th inning guy? It seems strange he didn’t try that sooner.
NO
Have no idea….but he has been giving up homers and you never knew which Romo you were going to get. Kruk was also mentioning (yesterday) his inability to recover (arm) like a closer needs to.
True lots of miles on that elbow. How many more sliders are in it?
Don’t confuse the blame game.
Do you think Bochy has listened to ANYTHING management has told him all year? This has been a one-man-show all the way, from day one. No Sabean as GM to balance the scales, hence the disaster.
And you know this how? Are you privy to his conversation?
The FO gave him a weak roster to play with from day one.
Thought I’d share the exchange between my lady and I during the Bum/Puig ridiculousness Monday nite.
Me: Bum would rip Puig’ head off.
Her: Are you sure? Puig is pretty built.
M: Gimme a break. Bum wrestles horses and steer.
H: Bum wrestles horses and steer?
M: That’s right. At the same time. Blindfolded.
Don’t forget “with his pitching arm tied behind his back!”
Just got asked to play guitar in the orchestra pit for a local production of “Annie.”
Should I do it, gang?
And have to watch the play every night?
Naw…my back will be to the stage…
OK, hear it.
You are relentless.
How long’s the run?
Just a week. Not an “Annie” fan, eh?
well, a week is nothing. Go for it
That’s gonna be brutal for the audience.
“You should see the other guy.”
Honey, you see the guitarist down in the pit? Ewww…
I know. He really needs a juicer.
Listen, pal, lemme know when they ask you to play in the pit for the local production of “Tommy”.
I music directed, played guitar, and conducted it in 2008.
Pal.
Well alright, Buddy Guy.
Sounds like you’re ready for Quadrophenia then. Can you see the real me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9l-Zuu5cR4
Do they know you’re juicing?
Trying to keep it hidden until the end of the run. Selig is executive producer, so I should be ok.
As long as you’re seated down wind in the pit, things should be fine.
it always comes down to the dead presidents pal.
No, on principle alone! Annie?! Really?! I am going to go all Jim Mora on you in a sec…
Is it a paying gig?
Of course, man! I don’t do other people’s music for free.
Greek – I don’t see how one can wonder IF “the Giants got old all of the sudden”
Of course they have, they went into the season with one of the oldest teams in baseball, what can you expect. They have not produced young position players in 2 plus seasons that are viable starters in MLB for a team with PO aspirations. The only one that you say had some success is Duffy and he is not even on the team anymore. The pitching staff is older, from starters to relievers and again, no matter how many young arms this organization has been touting for years, it is just not materializing and looking all like a PR spin to make a weak farm system palatable for the fans.
Yes the team got old and quick.
Makes me think of the 2009 Yankees and the 2008 Phillies, teams their fans and local press absolutely believed had staying power and would be able to retool with younger talent. But guess what, the vets got old quick and there was no premium young talent to replace them with.
People have to face reality that the Giants farm is a travesty.
Since Duffy what is there (and I would love to hear some of your pro arguments). Kelby? Parker? Brown? EA? Mac? Heston? C’mon folks I’m talking about bonafied talent, the kind that can start on multiple teams and have a solid career. Not fan favorite backups that mostly are on the team because the overall roster is so weak.
Farm System … Good off-season topic for sure and right up MyGuy™ Alley.
You did not mention Joe Panik. Injured and down this season but he was an All-Star last year. That makes him a “viable starter in MLB for a team with PO aspirations.”
Giants approach seems to be gathering an abudance of pitching prospects for trade-chips. That is how they got another All-Star, Nunez; an indirect farm system success. That philosophy could be debated as they probably passed up some good position players to stock up on pitchers. Last draft they seemed to go high on some better hitters so maybe that signals a shift that is only just starting to be seen.
Haak – thanks for the response. I omitted Panik since I see him being on the team 3 seasons, not the 2 I mentioned.
I question if there is a shift. And if there is this season, the team won’t see any benefits for a number of years, too late to help this team as is now.
It is like turning the SR-71 around. You go top speed (win 3 WS) across half of the USA and then decide to make a u-turn and it takes you the other half of the USA to make that turn. Panik and then Arroyo might be a first fruit but Shaw, Reynolds, Brusa are higher picks that at least are off to impressive starts.
I like the SR-71 analogy !!
Don’t forget Quinn, buddy. May have a better future than Reynolds.
Impressive starts really do impress you. funny thing is not one player you highly tout has actually helped or looks poised to help. so what does all that praise get you? Squat
C’mon now. Taking the farm system to task is going to become a dead horse assault. The farm kind of peaked this winter with a “solid” reputation, closing in on the middle of the pack. After some graduations and trades, it is back near the back of the pack.
Thin on star power but with some solid roll players sprinkled in. Beede and Arroyo will have to step it up big in AAA to give some promise of star power. Otherwise, it’s 4th OFers, relievers, and we’ll see what Bryan Reynolds does in his first full season.
where do you get “solid” from?!! “Closing in on middle of the pack”? Name your sources.
From everything I saw over the winter, most publications had the Giants in the bottom five in the league.
Reading it in a GE post does not make it actually true, you do get that right?
Lol 😁
Keith Law: #21 http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/2/10/10962756/keith-law-sf-giants-farm-system-ranking
Baseball America: #19 http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/organization-talent-rankings-list/#DgklBaZ4uZUH6wkI.97
John Sickels: #20 http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/4/2/11333890/minor-league-baseball-farm-system-rankings-for-2016
So not quite mid-pack but not bottom five, either. These were all preseason 2016.
Hardly “solid” and “closing in on middle of the pack” correct?
Add to that how much the Giants PR team does to massage to facts. Then add what they list this season via trades, I’d say bottom 5 EASY.
Near enough to the middle tier. “Solid” does not reflect a top tier system. “Strong” would describe a more stout system, and elite would be the very top , or a system ripe with impact talent.
You can have a solid system that contributes role player big leaguers. The Angels have by far the worst system in MLB yet can still put MLB role players on the field.
I guess your view of impact or viable role players leaves something to be desired. Sure any team can have players from their system on the big league roster, no matter how bad they are.
So tell me, when was the last time the Angels won anything?
Your example is pretty weak.
we know you’re wrong. It’s cool…we wont overinvest in your assessmentw
LOL. I once thought to block Effy, but I realized he’s the blind squirrel nut generator here.
The question I have , and I pointed to it earlier, is whether there may in fact be some young talent that isn’t getting a fair look because of the veteran bias at the top.
I couldn’t care less about a desk jockey’s analytics. Those orove very wrong very often. Let’s see it in the field.
Fair to question, E. But I wish we had legitimate assessments of the farm hands…I don’t think we do. I trust Lafty and Haak more than what some ESPN guy trying to look at 3000 players
Someone sooner or later ought to explain what is meant by veteran bias.
When in doubt, play the vets. When it’s obvious to everyone that the vet is over the hill and the rookie would be an upgrade still play the vet.
It’s an opinion I’ve heard, for sure. It’s hard to substantiate though. If you look at years of service vs. OPS over the top 100 players in baseball, it’s a hard case to make. IMO, vet bias is code for frustrated and in need of a magic bullet. Play the young guys, without having drafted high skill athletes who are young guys, is just the hallmark of fan frustration. Certainly there are young players on teams who step forward, but to assume young guys like Parker, Williamson, etc. are those exceptions, is, IMO, more fanciful than real. Maybe you see something in the numbers I don’t just by examination.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=400&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d&page=1_50
Good post. This vet thing is dragged out every year when things don’t go well.
Not saying these are the be all, end all comparisons, but how about call ups? :
Dodgers: Jose Urias, Andrew Toles, Rob Segedin
Giants: Joe Nathan, Conor Gillaspie, Gorkys Hernandez, Ramiro Pena, Grant Green
The point is, and you know this, the Giants are more comfortable with older veteran solutions compared to never-been-there’s
It’s a long history of late – some worked great (Morse, Burrell, Scutaro)…Many did not
Maybe the Dodgers just drafted better, coached the fundamentals better, or have more money to devote to dead ends. But as I posted below, young guys who’ve done well were predicted for sometimes years as future high WAR player. Our successes in that area are few and far between. In 2015 or so, I was part of a conversation here that dealt with how the WC playoff format was going to minimize real talent, future and present, moving around. I think that is happening now. As a matter of fact, Epstein with the Cubs, saw it coming and made it the centerpiece of his strategy in rebuilding the team in Chicago.
You could say they have a better scouting system but they have also done considerable wheeling and dealing. Take the Dee Gordon trade which netted not only the prospect which they swung for Howie Kendrick but also Catcher Austin Barnes, Enrique Hernandez, and reliever Chris Hatcher. I think Toles was picked up for free. Segedin was acquired for a backup infielder. Their activity has netted pieces. In addition, they’ve been mining and spending in Cuba and those athletes are on the horizon (Alvarez and Diaz).
But, in the end, the D. Gordon trade was a failure. Had the moved Gordon to 2B, they would have created a AS and batting champion.
I guess you missed the point about the return of quantity and one high level prospect that netted professional hitter, Kendrick. And how did things go for Gordon this year? Did the Dodgers know something about his workout routine?
Put away the conspiracy theories first. If Kendrick were that good, Utley wouldn’t be in the mix platooning. In fact, however you cut it, their front office made good decisions. Luck or insight, dollars, you pick it.
I mean, you’ve seen what’s happened to Gordon this year, right? Gotta say the Dodgers are in a much better place without him.
Is it not self-explanatory? Go look at Bochy’s history, that’s why he was run out of San Diego. He has many, many other strengths but one of his weaknesses is going back to the veteran well when it has dried up. This year alone is the constant running out there of Span and Pagan (and batting them 1-2) when Mac and Parker were a productive platoon in Pence’s absence. Or running Cain and Peavy out there again and again and again when a guy like Blach had earned a shot. Or putting Casilla in the 9th to allow gut punch after gut punch when he should have tried others (whether it would be Law or someone else).
How about previous years with Tejada/OCab over Crawford? Huff over Belt? They had to freakin trade away Molina for Posey to play regularly. I’m not sure how the meaning of “veteran bias” could be any more clear.
Your assumptions about ‘productive’ aren’t born out by the evidence, IMO. I don’t think Williamson and Parker were demonstrably better than the vet who replaced them, but that’s my opinion I realize. Ty Blach isn’t ready, IMO. Casilla’s failures are just part of a litany of problems on a team that held together with spit and duct tape. His temper tantrum on the mound just moved him to the top of the list. BTW, I’m not a fan of Casilla’s and never have been. But, rather, I’m trying to be even handed.
Well there is your problem from the start. Trusting some biased fan bloggers over people paid to evaluate talent.
I mean do you really think there is takent in the farms system that has systematically been kept down? Cmon man, seriously? All the people in the Giants system somehow have golden nuggets they are failing to promote. Does not work like that, sorry. There is a reason teams make trades for top talent ready to help. because teams know for the most what is out there. Yes it’s not an exact science, but no the Giants don’t have it. The very reason the Giants have lost out on numerous players the past few seasons because they don’t have players other teams want. Somehow you fail to see the obvious.
But go ahead and keep basing your facts on biased bloggers who have but one agenda, to think everything orange and black is just peachy.
You went off the rails on my point…do you remember the predictions for Crawford, Panik and Duffy? Wrong, wrong and wrong. I’m not so sure I’m as far off as you think.
You just st proved my point! hahahah
You had to did back 5 seasons to pull Craw out of your hat. Panik is a great defender but his bat is a question right now, hasn’t been able to sustain his early success AND Duffy is not even a Giant, nor a starter for now.
That’s all you got? In that same time how many impact players have some of the better teams in the league graduate?
Don’t come at me with BS if you got no cards to deal
Hey E … you can label me a Biased Blogger but Lefty is ready to eviscerate many a Giants FO employee. No Orange, Black or Peach in her vocabulary.
Let’s be fair. This is a veteran team and it’s very hard to just let rookies play significant time to “learn the ropes.” That’s easy to do when you’re the Cubs. But with guys like Posey, Pence, Cain, MadBum in their primes or on their downside of their primes, it’s probably a better strategy to fill the gaps with other veterans and hope that’s enough to get one more championship. It’s not a long vision or sustainable strategy. It’s a short term go for broke strategy.
You can look at most young players and quickly see that the concept of something like a productive AB is a foreign concept. Unfortunately, that’s a key concept, IMO, to success in the Giants style of baseball. I think it’s the basic tenant of what we call ‘grinding’ as a descriptive term with past championship Giants teams. We weren’t always the best, but we were always relentless. That entire ethos seems just absent on this team. They have trouble playing with a lead, much less coming back to win a game.
Good point in going for broke, thus starting the season with such an old team around the core players.
But you can’t deny the fact the system is bare, thus not even giving them the type of players they could incorporate into the team to help. You can’t tell me if the Giants had a Betts or Bryant type of player they would not play him. It’s a BS excuse to say the Giants don’t play rookies because of some bias and imagine Parker, Kelby are the answer.
The Cubs stocked up on blue chip prospects. They traded Hammels and the Shark and have a starting shortstop out it. In 2013 thier farm system had 6 top 75 prospects. At that time in 2014 they were in last place. You are seing the benefit of that building a farm system from nothing now. You are seing the Giants issues from their trade for vets strategy in which outside of Pence, nobody is on the team from past years trades other than Lopez.
http://www.espn.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/11177585/chicago-cubs-trade-jeff-samardzija-jason-hammel-oakland-athletics
boasts six of the top 75 position player prospects in baseball, according to Law’s preseason rankings: Russell (No. 3), Baez (No. 7), outfielder Kris Bryant (No. 15), outfielder Jorge Soler (No. 26), outfielder Albert Almora (No. 28) and second baseman Arismendy Alcantara (No. 71).
The Giants office problem is that they never trade for prospects. Never. Even during losing seasons, they are never sellers. And if they do make a trade, it’s for help NOW. Even in a lost year like 2013, they wouldn’t trade guys like Lopez. They clearly needed his 8 innings for the stretch run.
That is a Sabean philosphy he has stated many times. You build a farm system and you trade unkown quantities for known quantities that can help now. By doing this you drain your system of potential major league prospects. Billy Beane is just the opposite, he normally trades his vets for a restocking of the minor leagues. His only problem is that he rarely has the budget to get the extra pieces he needs when they do pan out. A year or 2 later, he is blowing it up again.
It’s a philosophy I really, really hate. It puts all the pressure on guaranteeing they draft perfectly, since that’s the only way prospects are coming into the system.
It would also help if they gambled a bit more in the international market. Or invested in more scouting in the Caribbean. Dodgers picking up Urias when they were signing another in Mexico was one heck of a coup.
This falls in the Bingo category of farm related posts.
Who you trade for 3-4 prospects now?
I think shopping Casilla at the deadline would have been a fine move. Yeah, it sounds silly now, but plenty of teams could have used a guy who – at that point – had a 10.9 K/9 and still had an 82% save rate. They wouldn’t have gotten a top flight prospect for him, but several teams would have been interested in him as bullpen depth. If the Giants ate his contract they could have gotten a nice lottery ticket.
“Is it the strategy in relying on low ceiling college type more ready to
help? Not taking a risk on a high ceiling HS player? Going for so many
small middle infielder types”
I think you are asking the right questions, E. They do love themselves some collegiate players – perhaps targeting character and academic aptitude. Good proportion of white collegiate athletes – not sure how they stand relative to the pack, but their drafting record suggests heavy on the college player.
Somebody used to harass me a couple years ago on how Theo was trading many of his players. What he did was clean house and stock a minor leage team with blue chip prospects. These players are contributing now and they added a couple free agents. To that poster, I say Theo is doing just fine.
This goes out to Steve K:
I know you rider…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAcdhFDqBY
Fave all-time Dead song, Foots. Mil gracias!! :o)
welcome, amigo. That Robert Hunter wrote some interesting lyrics.
Their producer?
thank you…anything i can ever do..usted tambien paulo
What a story! Kudos to this American corporation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/a-baseball-card-contest-pays-off-6-decades-after-the-fact.html?ref=sports
great story
The current 23 MacArthur Award winners are out today. It’s startling how many live, work, and/or are from California.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/i-thought-i-was-having-a-psychotic-break-2016-macarthur-geniuses-reel-from-life-changing-call/2016/09/21/d393a3cc-7f4d-11e6-8d13-d7c704ef9fd9_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_macarthur-145am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
PS: Baggarly is not on the list.
but Matthew is.
I expected nothing less.
Who’s that on the ground in the photo above?
Whoever it is they’re wearing Dodger blue.
Yahoo just got hacked. The toll, 500 million user accounts.
No wonder my fantasy team is doing so bad.
Funny thing, it actually happened in 2014. Maybe that’s the Giants problem, old number too.
Hopefully the Giants were storing their defensive shift information on Yahoo…and it’s not there anymore.
LOL. Ironic ignominy.
I have always gotten the two mixed up https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/adbbf11b17ba88611cb5cedfdf0669a85c167381b85e1c81d5e71782e60b019f.jpg
Kuiper this morning on winning the division. “That ship has sailed. Scoreboard watching should be Cards and Mets first…then the Dodgers”
That’s pretty obvious .
Not sure if he had a “Captain Obvious” uniform on when he said it 🙂
Even some of the Giants admitted as such, according to Pavlovic.
Teach them young and Spread the truth
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b6aaf866423870d6a5f31b7f956083ca458aec133a07ca42e914b1823bae1e36.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/210eb186b0120c45c2fc90f7b67fbbd77d5f820c0bf86cd67d3abf0c7a385a6d.jpg
Funny. Will be uber hilarious if we get into playoffs and Dodgers per usual don’t go any further than 1st round…
These five diseases are treated better with cannabis than prescription drugs
https://www.facebook.com/peter.newell.184/posts/1261069423945158
Great great story http://www.officer.com/news/12258994/columbus-police-officer-reunites-with-man-he-saved-as-a-young-boy https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a154260728c79e958bee8505571e0f167ed114e249f20c976a62575075da6e9e.jpg
Evan’s knows he messed up not getting a closer: http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/nl/san-francisco-giants/heyman-giants-gm-laments-melancon-miss/
Let’s hope they remedy the Melancon “miss” this winter.
There is confirmation to what I thought was just rumors about other players that was eye opening too.
Have to imagine the Nats do what they can to retain his services – as with the Dodgers and Jansen and Cubs and Chapman.
But get it done, Evs.
He only messed up if you think he should’ve traded Panik for Miller.
So true. I wonder what kind of a package Pittsburgh would have taken / wanted from the Giants for Mark Melancon?
The Buccos sent the Gas Throwing Felipe Rivero to the Bucco’s + pitcher Taylor (meh) Hearn
I think the other guy, Hearn?, was also a big arm guy – maybe comparable to a Crick or Black or Rodolfo Martinez.
I wonder who they offered. I have to imagine Pittsburgh wanted Law and another solid prospect. So maybe Law plus Arroyo would have done the deal.
I wonder too.
Wonder what their scouts thought of Law as well – would they have had TJ/throwing motion/health concerns, or see him as a late inning mainstay for 4 years?
That’s ignoring the prices. If they were too high, they were too high. He shouldn’t be second guessing. They need better relievers, period. And better baseball by the offense would have made a difference too.
“A professional is a person who can do his best at a time when he doesn’t particularly feel like it.”
— Alistair Cooke
Anyone can do something when they feel like doing it. That’s not much of an accomplishment. The truly outstanding people are the ones who do something that needs to be done even when they don’t feel like doing it. The distinction is in honoring your word and not your feelings. Your feelings will come and go. They are fickle.
Success is the result of sustained effort. It comes from doing what you’re committed to doing rather than just what you feel like doing. When you have choices to make or things to do, it is best that you are honoring your word and commitments rather than your momentary feelings.
– Steve Gilbert
Good to see River Cats Skipper Jose Alguacil in the Giants dugout every game.
If Large Melon were to go upstairs with Felipe my four choices would be.
* Wotus
* Brenly
* Dave Martinez
* Jose Alguacil
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/other-sports/river-cats/article49847790.html
who are your MOYs and MVPs this year?
It is rigged I think to give it to Maddon but … it should be DRob
NL MOY’s
1) Dave Roberts
2) Maddon
3) Mattingly
4) Dusty
NL MVP’s – My guy is Nolan Arenado but Bryant has it locked
AL MOY
1) Terry Francona
2) Hinch
3) Buck
4) Girardi
AL ROY
If McCovey can win it in 1959 playing in 52 games then so can Gary Sanchez
1) Sanchez
2) Fulmer
I think Roberts will actually get a lot of votes. And Dusty Baker, doing his semi-regular “take the helm of an underperforming team who would have bounced back anyway”
I think Murphy should garner some votes. He’s done a lot of slack picking up and meanwhile Bryant has Fowler ahead of him, Rizzo behind him…
NL MOY: Maddon
AL MOY: Francona
NL MVP: Bryant
AL MVP: Betts
Maddon’s got that loaded roster to play with and “have fun” with.
You better you better you Betts.
Why Maddon? He was given the best team in modern baseball history, or so we were told, and won. OK, so he didn’t screw it up.
Wotus would have to be the top candidate, right? Other teams have expressed interest in him as a manager.
Correct and he is a swashbuckler – much different than Mungous Melon
Wotus would be an excellent choice to replace Bochy. Perhaps Dunston to replace Muelens as hitting coach. S***can Kelly and replace him with Algaucil as 3B coach.
The hitting coach that fits this Park, and team is Chili Davis, I’d say.
BINGO!
THAT would be hawesome.
Better chance of Dunston going to third base. Muelens speaks five languages and even though all of US want him gone – all the players and management staff say he is the first to arrive and the last to leave and is meticulous about his methods.
Now… (So TO doesn’t think I want him to stay) – My choices would be:
* Bonds
* Will Clark
A different voice is apparently needed. “Our” hitters swings do NOT look like other hitters on other major league teams.
I would love nothing more than “The Thrill” to be our hitting coach. I think his time being an advocate for autism and being with his son outweighs his desire to be a full-time coach. Chili would be great. Bill Mueller would be great too.
Replace Kelly with one of those Maytag guys in the mlb commercials.
If no one else has hired Wotus, even after all of this success, there must be a feeling that he’s lacking something.
I actually think it was more a matter of bad timing. He was born and raised in Hartford, Connecticut and is well versed in both leagues and I would think well respected and turned 55 last March, but only the Shadow knows for sure.
I wonder if his preference is to wait and become the Giants manager, and that shows up in his interviews.
Only two of those have a shot.
# one and #3 ?
IMO, they’ll go outside the organization when they change leadership.
The Warriors finally did the right thing. No more Don Nelson and Keith Smart. No more Gary St. Jean. No more Chris Mullin.
Good call CC
I’d throw Ryne Sandburg’s name into the discussion, myself.
They should go Wally Backman for entertainment purposes
Why Martinez Clutch?
On the other hand, if they had traded Panik for Miller, they’d probably still be in contention for the division and in a secure spot for the wild card.
You do know Duffy is out for the year with foot problems, right?
He does now.
What does Duffy have to do with what I said?
The way you worded your post “Panik for Miller”, it could easily be interpreted as Duffy staying = “probably till be in contention for the division and in a secure spot for the wild card”
No, that’s not what I was talking about. Panik has had a disappointing season. They could’ve plugged in someone else at 2B without losing much and gained one of the truly elite bullpen arms. Panik’s future play will determine whether passing on that trade was a good decision.
Well it wasn’t that clear, so sorry for the misunderstanding.
Panik’s been the best 2B on the Giants since Scutaro *and* got the A-Star Rating from Will Clark. Poor guy has dealt with a concussion issue, so I wouldn’t judge him too harshly. He did have a hot run not too long ago and his defense has been there, so I personally have no issue. I do think Bochy not putting him back at #2 hasn’t helped, because…as we see…Pagan hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire there.
I wouldn’t have made the trade either, but it’s the kind of decision that defines success for a GM. If the season turns out to be an aberration for Panik, then it was an excellent decision. If it turns out that this is the real Panik, maybe not. Having Miller in the bullpen would’ve completely changed the team’s profile.
You’re right about Miller…
I wonder whether the Giants, if they could go back now, would make the same decision.
Panik is on a 1 for 31 stretch, Pagan has hit better then that .
You know both Grant Green and Ramiro Pena were hitting 45 points higher than Panik?
That was during the “smoke and mirrors” portion of the Giants season. Regardless of stats, no GM would take either guy over Panik on their team…which is why those guys passed through waivers without being claimed.
I agree they are no match for Joe P.
But I REALLY liked that Peña guy…
Todays Early Giant Pre Game Notes http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/0/6/6/202774066/9.22.16_vs._SD_d8h3hbyb.pdf
This Date in Giants History: September 22, 1969 – Willie Mays hit his 600th career home run, coming in a pinch-hit role with one on and the game tied in the seventh inning at San Diego to give the Giants a 4-2 win
Maybe “Say Hey” can come off the bench tonight, right Boch?
Remeber it well … was riding my bike back from the 7-11 with Slurpee baseball cup and some new packs of cards
nice.
I sorta recall it. Had just returned from Woodstock not long before… ;o)
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7682e408afbae418191d80c5aa8a93017fc4ff9f6da61b62ef90310ee5a05a5a.jpg
I was at Altamont. Parents said no to Woodstock although my classmate Mike Shrieve – as you know was a big part of Woodstock.
Nunez leading off and Span not in the lineup–vs. a RHP. Span must have an injury. Panik batting eighth.
Never mind. Friedrich is a LHP. Span mystery solved. The tweet I saw must have been incorrect.
Sad face….. 🙁
I looked at the Padres starting lineup. 3 of them making their debut MLB debut tonight. Perhaps the Giants should even out their lineup and put Mac in LF, Parker in RF, Brown in the squat, KT at 2B. It would have the feel of a split-squad game.
Whoa – some big prospects in their system too. Hunter Renfro may have some Mac similarities, likely better hit tool. Manuel Margot they got in Kimbrel trade and is probably their best prospect, very high marks for D in CF. And Austin Hedges has been one of the best catching prospects, esp. defensively, the last couple years.
Those young studs will be looking for that fastball. Shark best be careful. PCL was a fastball hitting league. MLB pitching, of course is different, but a fastball is a fastball.
especially a shark meatball
Yep. Especially with some of the pitchers we’ve had over the years.
The pitcher’s career is likely about over as well. And it’s not like the Dodgers took the game all that seriously last night: Note the 6-8 hitters. But … the Giants have lost (and beaten) anyone at anytime. Pay no attention to the competition.
Progress…
It says Friedrich is the Padres SP – he’s LH. So I don’t think Span is getting displaced quite yet. We’ll have to wait until 2019 for that 🙁
In The Classroom
Batter HBP After Balk – Written by Rich Marazzi
I’m aware that many of the readers of this publication work under NFHS or NCAA rules during the spring months. However, many summer leagues operate under Pro rules for the most part. Whether you are coaching or umpiring, a review of balk situations under the Pro playing code, is worth a look. Unlike NFHS rules, when a balk is called, the ball is not dead and “Time” should not be called unless the pitcher does not deliver the pitch or throw to a base.
I recently received this interesting question regarding a batter who was hit by a pitch in a recent Bowling Green game.
Q. With a runner on first, the pitcher balks and hits the batter with the pitch. What’s the call?
A. The batter is awarded first base and the runner on first would go to second base. Let me explain.
When a batter is hit by a pitch following a balk, the umpire first concerns himself with the hit by pitch rule in which case the batter is awarded first base. He must then determine if the batter’s presence at first base forces all runners to advance one base. If it does, the balk is nullified. If all runners are not forced to advance, the balk rule is invoked. The batter remains at bat and the other runner/runners are awarded one base. In the above case, since the batter’s presence on first base forces the runner on first to advance to second by virtue of the HBP, the balk is nullified. For the balk to be nullified or canceled, the batter and runner/runners must all advance one base on the play. For instance, last season the Blue Jays’ Jose Bautista hit a book rule double following a balk. Because all runners, including the batter, advanced one base on the play, the ball was nullified. But as long as one runner (or the batter) does not advance one base, the balk rule takes precedence.
HBP and Walk Situations Following a Balk
Let’s say the batter was hit by a pitch or received a base on balls (Ball Four) following a balk with just a runner on second, or runners on second and third or first and third. In those situations the balk rule would be enforced since the runners would not all advance because of the batter occupying first base. Again, the batter would remain in the batter’s box with the same count prior to the balk and the runners would be awarded one base because of the balk.
Let’s say with runners on second and third, the batter hits a ground ball to second following a balk and is put out 4-3. On the play the runner from third scores and the runner on second goes to third. In that situation the balk rule would take precedence over the play because the batter did not advance one base on the play, just the runners did. The runner on third at the start of play would score, and the runner on second would get third base.
Let’s say following a balk, the batter hits a sac/fly ball to left field with a runner on third. Because the batter did not advance one base on the play, as soon as the ball is caught, the umpires would call “Time” and enforce the balk rule. The runner on third would score and the batter would remain at bat. If the outfielder drops the ball and the batter reaches first base and the runner on third crosses the plate, the balk would be nullified because both the batter and the runner advanced one base. In the same play, if the batter is thrown out at second, the play would still supersede the balk since all runners advanced one base.
In essence, the batter has a free swing when he offers at a pitch following a balk. And the runner/runners all have a free advance attempt to the next base, but not beyond.
Sample Plays from ML games
It’s a myth that the ball is dead when a balk is called. The following play occurred in the July 9, 2013, game between the Cincinnati Reds and Milwaukee Brewers at Milwaukee. In the bottom of the fifth, the Brewers’ Richie Weeks hit what looked like a 4-3 ground out with runners on first and second and two outs. But a balk was called on Homer Bailey who removed his hand from the ball in the set position before delivering the pitch. The umpires correctly sent the runners to second and third and returned Weeks to the plate where he drew a base on balls before the side was retired.
If Weeks had reached first base, and both runners advanced one base on the play, the balk would have been nullified.
Unlike catcher’s interference, the manager of the offensive team has no option on plays that follow a balk.
Lou Piniella once lost an RBI double because of the rule. On April 19, 1977, the Yankees hosted the Blue Jays. In the bottom of the fourth inning the Yankees had Jim Wynn on third with two out when third base ump Dave Phillips called a balk on Jays’ pitcher Jerry Garvin. The Jays’ lefty continued to pitch after the balk call and Piniella hit a drive that bounced off centerfielder Gary Woods’ glove for a double. But Wynn, apparently thinking the ball was dead when he heard the balk call, remained at third. Because only Piniella advanced at least one base on the play, the umps invoked the balk rule and scored Wynn from third. Piniella had to return and continue his at bat. To add insult to injury, Piniella proceeded to strike out
QuirkyRule
When you think about it, because of the rule under discussion, a batter can get hit by four pitches in the same at bat (without swinging or getting hit by a pitch in the strike zone) before he is awarded first base. Let’s say the Rays have Logan Forsythe on third base and Brad Miller on first with one out. Blue Jays pitcher Aaran Sanchez balks before he delivers the pitch to Evan Longoria. The pitch hits Longoria. Because Longoria’s presence on first base would not force Forsythe, the runner on third, to advance one base, the balk rule takes precedent since all runners and the batter did not advance one base on the play (balk). Forsythe scores and Miller goes to second base on the balk. Longoria remains in the batter’s box. With Miller on second base, Sanchez balks and hits Longoria again. Because Longoria’s presence on first base does not force Miller, who is on second base, to advance one base, Miller goes to third and Longoria remains in the batter’s box. Longoria is hit again by the pitch for the third time and Miller, who is on third base, scores on the balk. Longoria remains at bat. He is then hit by a pitch for the fourth time with the bases empty. This time he is awarded first base.
Talk about a painful at bat. Hope I didn’t plant any bad seeds.
The Pro rule to reference is 6.02 (a) (13), formerly 8.05 (m). It reads, “If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when the pitcher delivers the pitch from the Set Position without coming to a stop. PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.”
https://i.imgur.com/1SAlfpq.png
I think Harby Harbs and Lowell Cohn were buddies. Not so much Chip Kelly. Bravo
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/49ers-chip-kelly-shuts-down-reporter-whining-about-colin-kaepernick/ar-BBwvBek?ocid=mailsignout
I don’t think Harbaugh liked him. I think the last one that may have liked him was Walsh. Cohn is beyond insufferable.
I like Chip for many reasons….this is another
Injury Update: I took Mrs. Crawnik to her post-surgery appointment this morning. Her surgeon told her that she has the normal healing pains associated with a total hysterectomy. The fibroids that were removed came back benign; which was really great news. 4 more weeks and she’ll be back at work. Thanks for all the well wishes again TWG family.
Great news Crawnik. Continued good thoughts and wishes for Mrs. C-Nik. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/992393abeecefff53a1fc8587a10854ec7ffa392cfdf32c8a54ffa17680d8bc5.jpg
That’s funny.
🙂
And thank you Clutch.
Always…. “We Are All In This Together” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b6aaf866423870d6a5f31b7f956083ca458aec133a07ca42e914b1823bae1e36.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/496c487ea106a2521520e2c7993ec212587ff2c4ae8d42e2db86762ee4d7451f.jpg
HELL YEAH!!!!
Fantastic! Thanks for bringing the good news mojo. It’s a great reminder to us all about the important things….I mean, Nunez leading off is important, but…well, ya know.
Hey, even Mrs. Crawnik thinks Nunez leading off is a great idea.
benign news is good news!
I had some potentially scary follow-up tests this morning come back “Nothing to worry about and see you next year,” so I’m appreciating having that weight off me today, too. Glad to hear your/her good news and hope she recovers well.
Thanks, and I am glad for you as well. I think we should all count our blessings.
wonderful news from you about mrs craw, as well as our own good doctor. the entire giants’ family can now concentrate on our diversion to what really matters. God, as always, is good
No DL for you Dr.
Get well soon Mrs. craw!
Great news, glad it’s all good. Mrs PS35 went through the same thing, was anemic for several years before the hysterectomy. Fifteen years later she’s still raving about it, best thing ever and I have to agree, it’s a good deal for us dudes if you know what I mean.
Good Nite Allen. You know…your Boys could use some divine intervention….hint – hint.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e114df0ca021222ed8806b453f59b8a2dcfa3b971a98496014caf016fafbe334.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/138be85d37105e2ed69b34c1f94da5d900a7c6782106440f05351aada578d6c0.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c30b272f8f0e834762a93598f518c24614c2dbc5ca13ff0ddc280382b2f58fbe.jpg
…
Dangerous lineup for Marge. I doubt G’s have much scouting on these rooks. And they should be swinging loose and free of any pressure.
Mayhaps Marge can huddle with Ty Blach?
30 HRs for Renfroe in PCL this year.
30 SBs for Margot
Hedges popped 21 and hit .326.
I wonder if the sellout mirage will evaporate next week?
Depends on this series….
Never.
Now Atl taking it to the Marlins.
Kemp taking it to Marlins. What a beast! 33 HRs, he’s found a new home with a rebuilding club (watch them trade him over the winter).
To SF?
I know I’m prob beating a dead horse but looking at the stats of casilla in the pre game notes he has an ERA of 8 and has lost 4 decisions this month. Just thinking where the Giants would be now if he was pulled earlier…
TD – I NEVER want to see him NEAR the mound again in the 9th.
However, his overall 2016 ERA is 3.72.
You and SurfMaui both!
Greek – I’m purty sure Dr. L’s car is parked in that garage too. :o)
(Gracias for ALL you’re doing!) paulito
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