by
Greek Giant
I love this book.
If These Walls Could Talk: San Francisco Giants: Stories from the San Francisco Giants Dugout, Locker Room, and Press Box
Paperback, Triumph Books, 2017
by
The book reads as a personal account of how a journalist became a fan and vice versa. Mr. Haft’s writing style combines the objectivity of professional sports writers with many very intimate stories about his evolution as a Giants fan from his first game at Candlestick to his accounts of the Giants 2010, 2012, and 2014 World Series Championships and their respective playoff runs.
Tales of MadBum
Did you know that when Jeremy Affeldt was getting his cleats on for the 2014 Wild Card game Madison Bumgarner turned to him and said: “What are you doing? You don’t need those because you are not coming into this game. I’m finishing it.”
The Legend of Willie Mays
There are many more fabulous stories about Willie Mays, the most complete ballplayer by nearly everyone’s account. Did you know that Willie would sometimes set up pitchers by swinging awkwardly at certain pitches to get the same pitch later in the game and smash it?
There are plenty of statistics and photos that readers are likely to see and experience for the first time. Mr. Haft includes game scores for the best games pitched by Juan Marichal, Timmy and MadBum. The results may surprise you.
There is a powerful account of Edgar Renteria’s speech in the Giants clubhouse in September of 2010 while the team was mired in a bad slump in Chicago. Mr. Haft portrays Renteria in a poignant way, with tears in his eyes imploring the team to believe in themselves. Without a doubt this was one of the most pivotal moments in Giants history, with the team rallying and the players explaining how much it meant to win a championship for their shortstop, one of the most beloved teammates they had ever played with.
The interviews with other writers, commentators and players are worth the price alone.
I read the book on the flight from New York back home and the experience was delightful.
I am providing a link below that helps raise funds for Together We’re Giants if you buy the book through our own merchant affiliate account. I recommend it. It makes a great gift for Giants fans young and old.
I bought 2
” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0142fa58481ac61899d1d40e92ae35ec5d32600e1c051b7fddc782912f693e4f.jpg Are the lineups out yet?”
Yeah, Bochy’s trotting out this old washed up vet, no doubt
That’s right, Lon!
I have it already! With this review, I’m definitely taking it to San Diego for our baseball weekend tomorrow. I’ll read it by the pool between games! Thanks for the review. I read Haft’s book on the 2010 Giants and really enjoyed it.
Enjoy the weekend. Your timing its excellent for a non-play-off season. You get to see Cueto try to impress a suitor and Bum make his first start in three months.
I planned a family trip to SD at the end of 2009 thinking we had a chance for play-off suspense but all we got was Panda hitting two HR’s and raising his average to .330.
How do you think Bum will do? My guess is he will throw a lot of pitches and be out pretty early. Hope he misses some bats, but my hunch is he won’t. All predictions wrong all the time or your money back.
I’m concerned about the 4-5 mph drop off in his FB in San Jose. When it comes to healing, I think that FB velocity is as good as a medical indicator can get.
His velocity has been going down for a while now, sometimes it is start to start, on his good days now he hits 92 and averages 90, in 2014 he would hit 94 and average 92, a few pitches at 95 if lucky . That is another reason if the Giants extend him for big Money 25 to 30 Million a year, it might be a very bad contract in the long run .
The thing about Bum, though, is that he once had velocity problems in the minors and somehow (I don’t know how) worked his way through them. The organization was seriously worried for his future. I don’t know that your recall is right, though. Bum had banner years in 2015 and 2016 and I recall him at 92 humping up to 94. If he was at your claimed 90 mph average in 2015/2016 he must have used trick mirrors in those seasons.
His motion is very deceiving , so his fastball looks harder than it actually is, but I remember in the 2014 season in a game @ Detroit he was topping out at 89, and had 0 K’s, Giants won anyway, in a slugfest .
I know he looks like he’s throwing the ball from Right Field but in addition to topping out at 89-90 at San Jose apparently he threw an abnormal amount of off speed stuff. Bum may not be a power pitcher but I think he’s mainly FB and cut FB. I view the off speed stuff as distrust in his FB. Just a theory but it’s all I got.
Fangraphs says in 2015 at 93.0 was his highest velocity year, 92,8 in 2014, 91.7 last year was his lowest according to Fangraphs .
So I was right about 92-94 in 2015 since 93 is the very average of those two numbers, yes? Well his dropoff in 2016 didn’t hurt him … 2.74 ERA. Maybe he can get away with lower FB numbers but I’d hate to see him distrust that FB and try to become a pure deception pitcher.
Thanks. Despite the disappointment of the Giants being non-contenders, I’m still excited for the trip. Weather should be perfect. Looking forward to seeing Bum back on the mound.
It’s official. It’s Matt Cain to the bullpen, at least for now: http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/Giants-to-move-Matt-Cain-to-bullpen-11286446.php&cmpid=twitter-premium
Let that be a lesson to us that the NBCS-BA studio crew are NOT insiders!
Actually CSNBayArea reported it yesterday
Amy G had it a week ago or more.
Actually, Ken Rosenthal had it in Spring Training
So much for lionizing SF media. But still Amy G got the local ‘scoop’, most likely from Matt Cain, himself. Rosenthal’s was pure conjecture. Logical, but a guess.
And here I thought she was a soccer mom masquerading as a reporter
These guys love to talk to her. They have for years. You just have to listen.
Actually I had it in May 2016.
She means Laskey and Estes last week who were sure he would stay in the rotation
I think among TWG a vast majority had him going to the pen.
Now he really is just wasting a roster spot. Of no use in the pen, where they have had too many arms all year
Why is Chris Haft writing this? I thought PJ and TO would do a joint effort and come out with this book about the ins and outs of this organization.
PJ doesn’t do joint efforts. Too bad. Might calm him down.
I am calm right now, I do not need Joints anytime , only losers need Joints to make it through the day .
Cue up the Beck!
Peter, you’d be amazed at how many successful professionals at all levels smoke marijuana. Only 30% of the public admit to using it “at least once” but you know that’s a blatant lie. People aren’t going to out themselves in public surveys so occasional users are probably half the entire population and chronic users probably 10%. I’ve personally known chronic pot smokers who were physicists and successful authors, even a lawyer! Pot smoking is so far easier on mind and body than alcohol that it’s not even close. Pot smoking mainly calms people down and makes them docile. I assure you … WINNERS smoke pot, too, as my personal experience attests. You should really take the scientific route where you’d discover, as William F. Buckley (an archconservative) said: “Marijuana is largely a harmless substance”. I’m not trying to convince you to smoke it but sometimes your high blood pressure responses indicate a looming benefit for you. Your contention that pot smokers are “losers” is wildly, wildly incorrect.
An ‘arch’ rational conservative. I loved ‘Firing Line’.
Me too. He didn’t raise his voice and he always treated the extremists who occasioned his show with the greatest dignity. His shows were real conversations about controversial ideas but never featured cheap provocation and loudness. I miss him!
To me, there isn’t a significant difference between the two. I respect those who make getting high a regular part of their lives about as much as I respect those who feel the same way about getting drunk.
However, there’s zero doubt that the physiological impact of alcohol is enormously higher than that for pot. Studies have conclusively shown that alcohol increases cancers in the larynx, esophagus, pancreas … basically ALL the organs of ingestion and digestion. At worst, pot smoke can irritate throat and lung tissues but since most people only take a few hits for a “high” even that damage is very minimal.
The BBC did a study of drunk drivers versus stoned drivers. This interesting study found that marijuana was only half as dangerous as being drunk but this does not take into account that a large number of drivers exist who are totally sober but have impaired reflexes or judgment who routinely get into accidents.
Besides the physiological points raised above, can there be any doubt that alcohol throws families into dysfunction and often financial peril? Most stoners I’ve known are just casual once-a-week/once-a-month users whose lives incur zero damage. To me, as a person who rarely imbibes either substance, the gulf between alcohol’s net damage to society/families is gargantuanly higher than weed. To my satisfaction at least, the case is closed.
My mom is 75 and has chronic back pain. She has medical MJ and says it really helps. I don’t think she smokes it, but I knew she has some.
Chronic back pain is one of the best uses for MJ. I have a friend with a cyst in his lumbar spine and weed is the only thing that abates his pain. Your mom might eat her MJ which, of course, still gives the benefits with no throat/lung irritation. Better than opioids!! indeed, MJ is seriously being investigated for opioid WITHDRAWAL. Opioid addiction is a soaring problem in the USA.
Does anyone know if there’s such a thing as medicinal marijuana for dogs? Poor ol’ Winnie has arthritic hips. Might help with her panic attacks, too (thunderstorms, smoke detectors…)
https://canna-pet.com/
I can’t believe there is!
Awesome. Thanks, Bob!
A neighbor used to use Bach flower essence rescue remedy for her dogs. MJ is probably more effective.
Try blowing a little in her ears. It worked really well on my hyper Doberman. My other dogs have all been well-tempered. It doesn’t take much. The brownies (and other baked goods) are way too strong.
P.S. the ears have a pretty high concentration of blood vessels close to the surface. Also their noses are too sensitive.
I see PJ as being like Dan Aykroyd’s bow-tied, stiff-collared caricature from SNL’s spoof of “Point: Counterpoint”. I like PJ despite our wrangles but “joint effort” would cure his occasional bile-filled screeds. But would TWG be the same without Peter. No way.
I must have ESP because I’ve made two recent comments about Renteria. What a gamer and, apparently, what a guy! His HR in game 5 against Texas broke their spirit just like his single in the 1997 WS won it for the Marlins. I will never forget the joy of that Renteria HR. Ever.
My voice cracks just like Flemm’s every time I talk about it
Watched the story of the 1990s Cleveland Indians on MLB last night. It was great to see a very young Edgar Renteria drive in the winning run in game seven of the 1997 WS. Those Indians teams had some hitters!
We live parallel lives.
Jose Mesa is a douchebag
Indeed.
You folks are REAL baseball fans. I feel like such a dilettante on this site sometimes. I knew Jose Mesa was a pitcher. That’s all I knew about him.
Brief story about Mesa:
The Indians were 2 outs away from their first World Series Title ever. Up 2-1 in the 9th on Florida. Man on first. Hargrove ( the manager) signaled Alomar to have Mesa throw a fastball in, but Mesa shook him off. Put the sign down again. Shook him off again. A third time. Finally, Mesa threw his pitch, slider away….single to right…winning run now on and it came around to score…series goes to Florida.
Omar Visquel writes a book , and in it, criticizes Mesa for that selfish move that killed their WS win. Mesa vows to bean Visquel every at bat he ever sees him..it’s well known. When Visquel was with SF, we all knew it. The players knew it. The umps knew it…yet, every at bat, Boom. In fact, Mesa didn’t even get tossed in a couple of those.
And we think Strickland is the biggest idiot ever? He’s a Baptist minister in comparison to Mesa. I’m not sure , but I believe it was at least 6 HBP’s over the years.
That’s why I described Mesa that way
Thanks for educating me, Matthew. Mesa compounded his lack of trust in his catcher with a multi-year grudge against a guy who merely wrote the truth. Uncooperativeness and vindictiveness … traits that rarely draw soft feelings for a guy.
We watched it, too. Fun stuff!
My memory of Renteria is the respect he was shown by everyone on that team. Even while injured. Pat Burrell in particular seemed to want the respect of Edgar. Meatheads Burrell and Huff followed that obvious leadership using the common language of baseball. And of course Pablo was known to follow him around like a puppy. MVP for sure.
De Columbia! Edgar, El Hombre. Gigante por siempre.
Siempre. You got that exactly right!
Angel Hernandez vs MLB, – Discrimination (Part 2)
http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/07/angel-hernandez-mlb-and-discrimination_13.html
you really have a hair up your butt for Angel.
I will laugh when he wins all the way to the bank.
Effie
I let this go the first time I posted part I. Do you phucking realize that it is big news on all the umpires sites both professionally and amateur wise and since I both coach and umpire back in the Bay Area that I get news racks and satchels full of info about Angel’s situation. That info came right OFF an umpires site….
here’s a quick read about the warriors draft pick, jordan bell.
https://theringer.com/jordan-bell-golden-state-warriors-nba-summer-league-5×5-be551c3187ac
16 rebounds yesterday. I know it’s summer league, but it also wasn’t a college game. Lots of top prospects and guys playing in D league or coming back from playing overseas.
And a 5 X 5 game the night before, with 11 boards. Fills up the stat sheet like Draymond does.
This guy sounds like a stud. It’s amazing how the Dubs seem to have hit on three straight second-round picks–Draymond, McCaw, and now Bell.
I was reading twitter last season when they got McCaw and people were essentially saying “oh shit”, because they knew the Warriors grabbed another legit player in the 2nd round. Those same type of tweets were going on after they grabbed Bell. It’s clearly a testament to their talent evaluation.
maybe these talent evaluators for the dubs could work a few hours a week for the giants..
I’ve been saying for years now that I’m surprised the Giants haven’t gone after some other’s teams successful evaluators. They can out-pay most teams.
I bought the book on Lefty’s recommendation, and also enjoyed it thoroughly. Nice addition to my Giants library.
MyGuy™ All-Star Break MLB Rankings
Player … 2016 WAR … Current WAR
1) Hundley … +0.3 … +0.4
2) Parker … +0.2 … -0.1
3) Span … +1.4 … +1.0
4) Panik … +2.1 … +1.2
5) Posey … +4.0 … +2.9
6) Nunez … +2.7 … +1.0
7) Pence … +2.0 … +0.0
8) Crawford … +5.8 … +0.6
This mid-season ranking always favors the low WAR players as it takes less to match what they did last year. So take heart the five of you who picked Crawford and Posey.
Congrats doobieibood who took Hundley as his ExclusiveMyGuy™ … but he is just 10% of your score that is still being computed.
hey haak, could you double check your list? i don’t see matt moore, who is my person…
I score the pitchers separately; this is for the position players so you still have hope!
Do not read any further if you want to have hope a little longer.
Okay, you asked for it:
Moore is #7 out of 9 with +0.4 so far compared to +2.2 last year.
Bum and Cueto are the two below him.
that’s painful
Four of us share your pain.
EDIT: That is the “Royal Us”… four good people here; not me, I am laughing at you since I picked Blach.
Imagine the record the Giants would have if they had to play players without those WAR numbers. They might be 50 games out already. That is why WAR estimates are laughable.
Basking in first half .1 WAR glory right now. feels good. I’d like to thank everyone who made this happen.
Apologies if someone already posted this, but Bleacher Report published the “Ten Worst MLB Players of the first half of 2017.” Gorkys was #9. Some surprising names on the list:
1) Carlos Gonzalez, Colo.
2) Danny Espinosa, LAA
3) Bronson Arroyo, Cinti
4) Amir Garrett, Cinti
(We lost to BOTH of those Reds pitchers in that three game sweep in Cinti in late April)
5) Ben Revere, LAA
6) Jace Peterson, Atlanta
(tagged by BR as “the Gorkys of the infield”)
7) Bartolo Colon, Minnesota (suckage from his days with the Braves)
8) Albert Pujols, LAA
9) Gorkys
10) Tyler Glasnow, Pittsburgh.
I saw CarGo picked as the “Least Valuable Player” on another ASG list. Amazing how well the Rox have done despite him having a terrible season.
Yeah, poor ol’ Gorkys. He is who he is.
Glasnow was regarded by some as the best pitching prospect. Tall, High release, high 90s…
…it hasn’t all come together. No third pitch, poor command. Those volatile, fragile, and unpredictable pitching prospects.
MyGorkys!! His return on investment crushed the rest of this list!!
The return on the Gorkys investment has been close to zero. It would be more accurate to say that the Giants failed investment in him was less costly than some others on the list.
Right. How about the return on your guy Moore? I mean, he’s done so much better in 2017 than a minimum wage 5th outfielder!
I remember the Haft Baked mailbag from years ago…
If the Giants move Ray Durham, what could they get in return?
Will the Giants FastTrack Tim Lincecum? He was the Golden Spikes winner in the best best baseball conference.
Good times.
Here’s a half baked rumor: Dodgers have checked on availability of Zach Britton.
Heard that on High Heat today. If he’s healthy, Britton and Jansen to finish? They’re front runners for the WS.
Just flashed on the changes from 2002 to 2003: David Bell (Willie Mac winner) and Jeff Kent…to Edgardo Alfonzo and Ray Durham. Ugh.
Unfair to lump Durham in with Alfonzo. Durham had several good seasons in SF.
Quintana from White Sox to the Cubs. Interesting trade.
By trading for Quintana, they brought in an elite starter who is under
club control through 2020. They had to give up two top prospects in
outfielder Eloy Jimenez and right-handed pitcher Dylan Cease along with
minor league infielders Matt Rose and Bryant Flete.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/07/13/cubs-acquire-quintana-in-blockbuster-trade-with-white-sox/103662280/
Cubs farm system is empty like my head. They better win.
Dodgers have enough OF talent in the 40 man roster that are still young, they won’t miss these guys
Here’s Grant Brisbee’s analysis of the Giants’ first half:
https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2017/7/13/15967512/sf-giants-first-half
Not baseball. But this promises to be a great show. Wish I could see it.
https://www.californiamusicaltheatre.com/production/on-the-town/
It does look like fun. We’re going to San Diego for the weekend, so we’ll miss it, too.
I did just grab tickets to see Samantha Bee at Mondavi in October, though!
It’s not the movie version, but the original score of the Broadway show with an orchestral arrangement. It’s not been seen in Sac since the early 60s. Not for minors, PG rated lyrics.
That was a fantastic read. Thank you
I really appreciate astute analysis that is also concise. It’s an art form.
Many Moons ago I actually thought The Oracle was actually also MLBSF because he defended him/her so often – So now I am only down to The Ex Mrs. Oracle and PSI. (surprise) – And since you all KNOW that I save every post I’ve made along with DirkRonaldoPuigRomo and a % of others like Runnnittt – SamHatesBelt – BayAreaRogue – Fire-Sabean-Sargento-I-am-the Idiot – TitoMac, The Wisdom Cow and MANY others – I find it sad that one guy that TO and I along with 8-9 others – have defended is indeed apparently on the Block. I am already wondering who might look good in #9. Maybe Austin Slater when he returns in 2018. #22 already looks super on CA unlike all those times with Uggla-Whiteside (sorry Eli) and Keiichi Yabu to name several dozen. At 33 yrs of age I don’t think Yuli Gurriel is in the long range future for the Astros. Imagine BB9 swinging the bat in that little Doll House Stadium. Houston’s minor leagues must have something available also. He’d be two hours and thirty odd minutes a way from Nacogdoches and they’d have a local good old boy star on their hands. News of BB9’s demise – of course came way of my back-door Illuminati connections who pass notes on napkins to the bartender Guido at the Gotham Club at Willie Mays Field at ATT Park. I hope he stays, the inside news is wrong because his glove work as F3 on the current team is magnifico. As Lefty said, long live the goofy-kid-blogger-giraffe who just recently when being interviewed on his JT Snow type catch down the line — “Had I gone to Notre Dame during that time, nobody would have heard of Jeff Samardzija”
Long Live MLBSF https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ac772773bad24fb5d341f0e89351e8ac0611f1de8d25ae799b6114464fab11b.jpg
The dude still sneaks onto Fast Break blog to continue his utter dismay at the trade of David Lee…all the way through the trophy presentation
This is a pretty entertaining post. I like the idea of BB9 as an Astro far far better than just another pin-striped person. I do wish you and TO could find some kind of detente. And if I ever read another word typed by MLBSF, it will be too soon.
TO may offer to take me to the shooting range – and then leave me there near the hay bales where the bullets land.
Nah. TO is not MLBSF. MLBSF couldn’t stand being rational for two consecutive posts. I’ve enjoyed plenty of TO’s posts. MLBSF got moldy faster than Florida bread left out over night.
Don’t pick on Florida…Greek might take it personally.
Me too
If he were to decamp, I only wish Belt the very best.
Me, too. He’s our Giraffe and he can pick a ball. I think moving him is a mistake.
I have always predicted he would be a ‘Stros star…
I supported MLBSF until even he exceeded the highest readings on my crazy-o-meter. He got stale in a hurry. I can stand more than a little crazy but he was looking at a little crazy in the rearview mirror.
I forgot about TitoMac!
Was he the doof that would always say “Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh SMH”?
“OK Lefty, my bad.”
“Why’s everyone always picking on meeeeeeeeeee?”
“And finally, tomorrow, my grades of the TWG posters and you can count on it – there will be F’s!”
“Why is Clutchup always stalking meeeeeeee?”
LOL. He nailed me first, giving me an F and calling me “the blog policeman.” I was crushed….NOT!
Brandon Belt: MyForeverGuy.
To Mr. Gosh Darn Greek God Giant Fan – You’ve endured enough in your maiden voyage with TWG. Next year we can all meet briefly in NY City and take Efrain out on the Long Island Fairy, err, I mean Ferry. In the meantime I will be communicating with you via this method.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Google-Earth-A-Hole-Sequim-arrow-feuding-neighbors-11285979.php?cmpid=nl_top
Of course just kidding but imagine with the acreage that Footy has how many messages he could send to his far away neighbors. 🙂
Clutch, where DO you find your photos? You have no competition on TWG for loading interesting photos. I just wish I knew the secrets behind your method but it can’t be speed reading. The oddities you find are amazing and unique. I salute you as a first grade magician.
Fresh off my commanding .1 WAR first half pick, which people are saying is one of the greatest first half WAR picks in many many years, I would like to offer a free Giants linobock print to anyone who wants one. Features two of the most popular Giants of the last ten years. Email at kevinahnart at G. mel ott dot com with a mailing address. Those who have already emailed, I have responded if I got your email.
Emailing you tomorrow ( or is that “today” to you??) thanks!
Thanks so much, doobieibood.
Footy – be careful what food you leave out for me and Mr. Bear
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4693206/Black-bear-climbs-family-s-Massachusetts-deck.html
Gorkys Hernandez is the 9th worst position player in baseball. Albert Pujoils is right ahead of him
“9.. Gorkys Hernandez, OF, San Francisco Giants
4 OF 12
Thearon W. Henderson/Getty Images
rWAR fWAR WAR Avg
-1.3 -0.4 -0.9
It feels a little mean to be picking on Gorkys Hernandez.
He’s only a fourth outfielder, so nobody’s expecting him to be the next coming of Barry Bonds. And it’s not his fault the San Francisco Giants are deep in last place in the NL West.
Still, he hasn’t helped.
As a right-handed reserve outfielder, Hernandez should be helping the Giants by hitting left-handed pitching and playing solid defense. He’s doing neither.
He has a .597 OPS and 62 OPS+ in 178 plate appearances overall, and just a .557 OPS against lefties. That’s sixth-lowest among all hitters with at least 80 plate appearances against southpaws.
Meanwhile, the 29-year-old has accounted for a minus-nine DRS and minus-1.0 UZR on defense. His relatively small sample size of 382.2 innings means these numbers must be taken with a grain of salt. But at times, he sure hasn’t looked the part of a stud defender.
On the bright side, maybe the only way from here is up?”
Where’s our guy Moore on the worst pitcher list??
I personally rate him as ths worst player in baseball right now.
I actually think he can be what he was last year. I admit that this belief is more based on hope than fact. If it’s based on hope then we might see simultaneous career endings this year for two of our original five starters.
Jace Peterson, Braves IF, was #6 on the list and was called “the Gorkys of the infield”. Ouch.
Let’s trade Gorky for Tebow!!
I want to trade Hoyer for Tebow, myself
Tebow is black balled from NFL. They prefer woman beaters over genuine nice guys.
Right, the NFL. Knock your girlfriend unconscious and “everyone deserves a second chance.” Peacefully protest by sitting out the National Anthem, and you’re blackballed. I’m no fan of Kaepernick in general, but I know hypocrisy when I see it.
Well, the NFL is, after all, the league that knew about and denied chronic traumatic encephalopathy forever. They’re for battered wives and concussed players. They remind me of tobacco company reps swearing before Congress that smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer.
That’s why, though every commissioner of a major sport is literally a puppet for owners, none is as big a total asshole as Goodell. He lies with wanton disregard as men die, and he takes his $40million annually. How does he sleep at night?
Guys like Goodell aren’t about truth and the general good. They’re about plausible deniability for selfish lies to keep their princely gig going.
Take your post Matthew and apply it to pretty much all greedy corporations that exploit people, pillage the planet, and gorge their share-holders with wealth, and you sir, will have a genuine progressive critique of Neo-Liberalism (i.e. globalism).
You’re heavy this morning! Atta babe
I wonder if there’s another QB in recent history that had a 9-7 regular season record and a play off win after his second season and couldn’t even get a practice squad job after that?
Talking bout Tebow, this just in…
https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/07/13/watch-tim-tebow-smacks-game-winning-home-run-mets-farm/amp/
Here is that Renteria home run. Just awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTXfEemSCjk
You just made my month, Pacman.
I can hear Andres Torres–running up to Rowand–“he told me he was gonna do it! He told me!” Great moment. The tears started flowing as soon as Renteria crossed the plate. There will never be another one as good as the first one.
1) Cody jumping on his way to home plate
2) LOOK at the amount of ‘Character’ there is in that dugout along with the amount of ‘Characters’ ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXyA4MXKIKo
Funny how Oracle popped off out of his ass about Lonzo Ball his first rough game, but has been quiet ever since Lonzo and the Lakers have been playing very well in the Summer League.
This from a guy who probably didn’t watch much college hoops, much less watched a UCLA game, or might know squat about college hoops in general.
But then some of you morons jumped on his random nonsense. LOL what a clown.
My opinion hasn’t changed. He’s playing against opponents who, for the most part, will never be NBA players. The one game where he was going to go up against the talented De’Aaron Fox, who ate his lunch and made him quit in the NCAA tournament, he ducked out of the game. What an amazing competitor.
That was my observation about that game, too. Fox ran circles around Ball and any other defenders but that UCLA team was all offense, no defense. At a certain point Ball did just disappear.
He quit. Whether it was Ball himself that wanted to sit against Fox, or whether it was the Lakers that didn’t want to risk having him embarrassed again, it wasn’t a good look.
I saw that game (it’s the only one of Ball’s games I have seen). He indeed gave up. I’m allowing that it was an incredibly small sample size, as NBA teams, even dysfunctional ones, don’t spend #1 picks on total washouts typically.
Atta babe.
I’ve only seen Ball once…and Fox torched him. But…I saw Delladova do that to Curry once and we know what followed…
He’s already sitting out in games in which he would be challenged. Not the best look for the second coming of Magic Johnson in La La land. Putting up 36 points against the 76ers, the Phillies of the NBA in a summer league game in which there’s no defense played whatsoever proves nothing.
For the record, Patrick McCaw of the Warriors is averaging 20+ points in the summer league, which should pretty much tell you about the level of competition in that league.
Currently shooting 37% overall and 17% on 3s…against mostly minor leaguers.
Me likey stats. They may hold lies but I think we fear that more often they’re truths that are boldfaced and underlined. Ball may be a fierce competitor but he seems bloodless to me. No fire in the belly. Now De’Aaron Fox is ALL fire in the belly. I think Ball will be a mid-level NBA player but no raving star. In time, the comparisons of him to basketball gods will seem very silly.
He’s really being hyped. ESPN is talking about and replaying only the positives, with little to no mention of his 4 turnovers and 2-9 shooting tonight. It’s really funny.
His dad is even more hyped by that Enquirer level network
Ball’s father is where all the fire is. I watched that UCLA-Kentucky game intently and Ball was mostly a spectator watching De’Aaron Fox weave around 4 Bruins ending up at the rim. Fox is the real deal. ESPN … soon to be bankrupt for constantly boring people with “experts” who aren’t.
Stoked Fox is on the Kings. Yes Kings fan are hard to find but I hope this is the start of a turn around.
Update on personnel: Nunez got hit by a line drive in BP yesterday and had/has a sore calf, which is why he DH’ed last night and came out of the game early. He’s playing 3B in SJ now and is expected to start at 3B for the Giants tomorrow.
LF for now is Hernandez and Tomlinson (per Schulman).
Rotation out of the break goes Cueto, Bum, Shark, Moore, Blach, with Cain in the bullpen.
Don’t know what the roster move is for Nunez–Gomez back to AA? Or AAA? And how about for Bum? If Cain’s going in the bullpen, someone has to go, right? Okert back to AAA? Crick?
Williamson went to AAA during break, that was a move .
Right–and they didn’t make a corresponding move yet. Forgot that. Wonder what the record for roster moves before the All-Star Break is?
About 6 weeks ago, TO thought the Giants might set a record for guys DFA’d off the major league roster: Marrero, Ruggiano, Federowicz, and so forth. By the end of the season, we won’t even be able to name them all!
It is truly astonishing how hard it is to find a LF, and utterly cruel that we lost Slater. I guess this is an opening for Kelby Tomlinson.
Mac Williamson says HE’s not hard to find. 🙂
I’m a big fan of the Kelbster, but I still think they should have 4-5 actual outfielders on the roster. Guys like Kelby, Belt, and Nunez can be emergency backups for 14-inning games or when an outfielder gets shot by the Hamstring Sniper. They shouldn’t be Plan A.
Five. Given the shaky condition of Span and Pence, the only way you could do four is if Hernandez and Tomlinson were both better gloves and better hitters.
I have a suspicion that there is a trade for an OF in the works, otherwise sending Williamson out (although I do agree with the org. that Mac W. is not a major leaguer) makes no sense.
OK, now that’s a challenge:
Marrero, Stubbs, Ruggiano, Federowicz, Neil Ramirez, Bryan Morris…Jimmy Rollins doesn’t count because he never actually made the team…
If they do not bring up Shaw soon , to give him a long look before 2018, they are blowing it , I doubt they do since the Giants brass still thinks they can win without Power . Every week Bobby Evans are Larry Baer go on KNBR on the Tolbert and Lund show, last night it was Bobby Evans and he repeated what Larry Baer said on the show a few weeks ago, we do not need Power to win, in 2012 we were last in HRs and won it all, I am sick of people bringing up 2012 as an excuse for not needing power,the 2012 team had career years from 6 players, 3 hitters hit over ,336, 3 hitters had career highs in doubles, 3 Pitchers had the most wins in Giants career, and they hit lots of HRs in the playoffs to win ,
Peter, I agree, except that Shaw’s already jumped AA–>AAA this season, and two jumps in one year is hard. Parker first, then Shaw at the stroke of midnight on September 1?
Parker is hitting under .200 in AAA , Shaw is hitting.304 with 9 HRs since promoted , Shaw is 23, Parker is almost 30 .
Shaw will be up when the Baby Giraffe gets traded to Houston this month
Shaw plays LF, and the Astros do not need a 1st baseman .
You just wait and see….just wait. It’s gonna happen to one of those front runners. Belt is an upgrade for many of them.
Plus ….”Duvall plays 3rd base”. Things get adjusted. Gillaspie plays first. Shaw plays left. Prospects come back. Things happen
Also:
” The Giants are not yet convinced that Shaw can play LF…..he seen as a first baseman”
So, there’s that
Just the opposite, has not played 1 game at 1st base at AAA .
That’s Shulman on the Giants brass…they are trying him in left and not like the results…what aren’t you seeing about that being a test?
I listned to the same show on KNBR that you did, Hank said the Giants want Shaw to get more reps in LF, but is better in LF than at 1st base, played outfield in College , re listen to it !
let’s see what they do with Belt…then we’ll see what they do with Shaw. Like I said, perhaps Gillaspie takes 1B. I’m thinking Belt is the guy to go, though I don’t want that
Replacing Belt with CG would be like when they replaced Will with Todd Benziger 🙂
yup….
As I look at this current roster and try to think about who may actually bring back a haul…he and Marge may be the top two not on the supposed untouchable list. I think Belt is the Evans carrot…what do you think?
Sadly I think you’re right. Of the two “untouchables” they would bring the most back. I just do not trust the office getting good value for either. And, emotionally, I can’t see enjoying the return players as much as I enjoy watching Belt. And Samardzija – a signing I was not excited for – has been far and away my favorite guy to watch this year. I’m a sucker for High K/Low BB guys and he’s taken that into overdrive.
no no not Belt
What’s the scoop on CG and Hwang with Nunez returning?
Right, I forgot about Hwang. With CG and Nunez back, maybe he goes down to AAA, too.
Who really knows the reason but hard not think that part of Rasmus’ reason for stepping away from the game is trying to reconcile while it’s Reddick and not him in the Houston OF.
No, he’s talked about his family for several years now, and wanted to just make enough money to leave baseball behind. He could have easily gotten a multi year deal a couple seasons ago, chose to take the qualifying offer instead so he wouldn’t be tethered to a longer contract. It only seems strange because most athletes/musicians/entertainers want to hang around as long as possible.
Rasmus’s father was a disruptive influence during his Cardinals tenure, and some of that followed him to Toronto as well.
Thanks, didn’t know. He was such a tough minded player, usually those guys have to go out kicking and screaming.
There’s a baseball game today!!!
Against the Friars! A perfect matchup for our Giants. May there be sacrilege, may there be apostasy and iconoclasty. May the Giants hit the ball beyond what is sacrosanct!
Have a great Friday!
o shit dammit it is
Pablo just got DFA by the Red Sox .
Do you know how much contract did the Red Sox ate?
(I’m not trying to make a cheap shot pun here, but can’t really think of a better word, maybe “absorbed”).
Two and a half years , are about 47 Million .
Wow!
That $47M is about what Charlie Sheen made in a year on Two and a Half Men
consumed lol
Wow! Just Wow!
Red Sox not afraid to eat Money , the Giants are, Pence, Span and Cain, if with Red Sox would be gone .
Very good point. The Giants absolutely do not eat money, even when they should. It’s like they are just afraid to admit when they are wrong, except in the case of Rowand. I believe they ate the last year of his contract. Right now, Moore is a good candidate for the DFA treatment.
Rowand had another year left on his deal, but Bow tie was Fired for eating that Money .
very interesting if true..
Nope Moore is not, still has great stuff, and is young, you and your surfing buddy need to chill, another team would take a chance on Moore in a second, and the Giants will pick up his 9 Million Option for 2018 .
Pablo showed up fat and hasn’t done squat for Boston. Now he can’t field hit or move…he’s in the words of one writer “ballast for a team cruise”. Easy call and the only one.
Giants have no replacements for 2 of the 3 mentioned. The third guy Cain has pitched better than the guy they left in the starting rotation(moore).
At one time my mind had Pablo Sandoval as a life long Giants in the HOF.
Pablo did not handle his baseball success well.
This was a nice comparison (from The Ringer):
10. Milwaukee Brewers
11. Chicago Cubs
12. St. Louis Cardinals
You can tell the NL Central race is heating up because both the Cubs and Brewers traded for left-handed pitchers on Thursday (José Quintana to the Cubs, Tyler Webb to the Brewers). Quintana’s a far superior player, so that’ll close the gap between the two, but we’re past the point where we can just expect the Cubs to just wake up and overtake Milwaukee by sheer force of talent. That might happen, but Chicago’s been bad for long enough that we’ve got to stop assuming it will.
I’m putting these three teams together because the parallels between this year’s NL Central and the 2015–16 Premier League season are starting to freak me out. In both cases, the season started with a seemingly implacable, unfathomably wealthy defending champion (Chelsea) with blue uniforms, an ancient stadium, and a manager who loves to talk to the media. That defending champion then went ass-over-tea kettle right out of the gate, allowing a perennial bottom-feeder (Leicester City) to take over first place thanks to a couple of unexpected breakout performances. (Eric Thames, the bearded offensive juggernaut who came from overseas to little fanfare at the time, is Riyad Mahrez in this metaphor, though Thames could probably curl the 137-pound Mahrez without breaking a sweat.)
As the season went on, that defending champion continued to show its ass while the rest of the traditional contenders had their own less severe crises, most notably a team with red and white uniforms and a fixation on Doing Things The Right Way, whose fans all want their manager fired. With the defending champion unexpectedly self-destructing, the time to strike was never better for Arsenal (or the Cardinals), but they kept tripping over their own feet too often to rise any higher than second place.
The point is, Milwaukee is way better than we thought, but this isn’t the 2001 Mariners we’re talking about; the Brewers have the seventh-best record in baseball and a rotation led by Jimmy Nelson, so they could be had if the Cubs or Cardinals could ever get out of their own ways. But time is running out, and as the Brewers look less and less like they’re going to capitulate, it looks more and more like the Cardinals are going to look back on this season as an enormous missed opportunity.
Why the trade of Duffy was wrong: Duffy had a WAR of +4.9 in 2015 and +1.5 in his limited time with SFG in 2016. Thus, our infield was complete with Duffy and you can’t judge it based on the injury with TBR because accidents happen and that accident might not have happened had he stayed at SF. WAR is a complete measure of player ability and our collected infield of Belt/Panik/Crawford/Duffy was a WAR machine.
He was on the DL with the Giants when he was traded and his heel and Achilies were bothering him most of 2016, the Giants were lucky to get anything for him .
Aah, your memory is good! At the time, I think everyone expected that to be a couple months injury, but now it seems maybe career threatening?
The Rays acquired Adeiny Hechavarria because they do not believe Duffy will play again. It’s that serious.
I was driving to Laguna Seca for the Motorcycle races last year, and Duffy and his Girlfriend were on KNBR with Marty Lurie after a Giants 1st half win, hw was on the DL for a long time, and it was not improving .
Precisely. The Duffy-Moore trade was an example of a trade being bad for both teams, so far.
Lucious Fox is the apparent jewel of that trade.
Good point. Perhaps… I forgot about that detail and I did not like the Giants throwing him in as part of the deal at the time.
As things have worked out, yes. But I think the throwing in of Lucious Fox into the Moore-for-Duffy deal was a tacit acknowledgement by SFG that the deal was a bit better for TBR.
Yeah both Matts have isues!
The “so far” shouldn’t be ignored. I think Duffy’s strongly positive WAR with us means that ultimately he’ll resume being a very good player. Maybe I’m guilty of WANTING Duffy to prove us wrong. The infield when he was playing really was a WAR machine.
Correct on all counts but the problem is his Achilles may not cooperate. It sounds like it could be career-ending and the Rays have given up on him so there’s that….
Severe injuries are always viewed as career enders/shorteners. Indeed, my hope if that Bum will come back and be good but once your anatomy is changed full comebacks are usually NOT forthcoming. I hope Duffy makes TBR’s resignation about him look very premature.
I hope the Duffman makes a strong comeback and resumes his relentlessly positive WAR and proves that the trade was wrong. True, we looked like geniuses when his achilles gave out but hindsight is always 20-20.
It was about to give out with the Giants , it was not hindsight .
Turns out that Lefty says Duffy’s achilles problems extended back to high school. If that’s so then why would the Rays take on a problem that existed for EIGHT YEARS?? Were the Giants hiding material information? If they were, then I’m wrong and the Rays got a raw deal.
Yes , I think he mentioned that, he and the Giants were babying it, but eventually it was going to blow out .
Didn’t that Achilles problem start in SF, with Duffy traded from the DL?
True but the problem will probably come to completion with Duffy’s recovery at TBR. My hope is that after his recovery he resumes his positive WAR and makes us look bad.
There’s not many Giants fans who would not wish a long and meaningful career for Matt Duffy. Good kid. In fact, we’re maybe all trying to figure out how to sneak him back into the Giants organization – our doctors might well be better than theirs?
It will never look bad, he has missed over a year of Baseball, and Moore helped the Giants make the playoffs, and Pitched great vs Cubs in the Playoffs, player that is not playing can not help you .
It will NEVER make us look bad? Yes, Moore helped us in 2016 and that’s my hope for the 2nd half. But this year we could’ve thrown nearly any AAA guy out there and get an ERA of better than 6.04. Hindsight is always 20-20 and Duffy’s severe injury makes the trade look palatable but who could’ve predicted the severity of his injury?
Get the Point, it was known he had this problem long before the trade, he was given days off, and put on DL , and it was not getting better, it was going to happen , shocked the Rays agreed to the trade, with his injury problem .
But now Duffy’s problem has maxed out after nagging him for a year. Once a problem has maxed out, one can look to a future and Duffy is only 26.
The Giants might get him back free, but for Tampa Bay the trade will always be a bad one .
Even with the certainty of our present knowledge, if I were SFG I’d still demand at least a prospect to get him back. The thing about ruptures like Duffy had, is that they represent the climax of a former problem. Post-climax is a crapshoot and Duffy’s young enough to still prove us wrong in the long term. Of course, the thing which would really make me look wrong is if Moore has a 3 ERA 2nd half and, really, I don’t want Moore to fail any more than I want Duffy’s recovery/resumption to succeed because Moore’s an SFG now.
Given my own experience (completely severed Achilles) it would have been better if he had completely severed it than what happened.
I’m certainly not a physician so I have no credentials to dispute what you say. However, the point of my (controversial) original post is that hindsight is always 20-20 and players often work out nagging injuries. They usually do NOT proceed to full disaster mode as in the Duffy case.
Pablos available to play 3rd…
Pablo was a WAR machine when he played for us but has had nothing but negative WAR at Boston. I think he’s let himself go and I wouldn’t want him back.
I thought he injured it while the Giants were away at TB. Wasn’t it the same game where Matty Moe beaned Panik and gave him a concussion? Maybe it started in SF, but after that game at Tropicana Field is when he went on the DL.
He re-injured it in St. Pete against the Rays. It was the same game Joey Baseball got beaned in the head by Moore and then hit a three-run blast to win it in the ninth. I was at the game and it was memorable.
I only meant that Duffy was on the SF roster. You are right, ironically this started in their stadium. Karma for taking such a great fellow away from us?
That’s what I like to think.
It was bothering him all year, he had days off because of it , before playing @ Tampa Bay .
The Turf Monster kills athletes.
Period. I’m sure his Achilles was in bad shape…ask any athlete who has ever been on that fake shit and they will say it is a destroyer of bodies below the waist. If Duffy does resurrect his career, it can’t be in Tampa
I vaguely remember that Duffy said he’d had Achilles soreness off and on since college or maybe even high school. Sounded chronic, and that may explain a lot about why the Giants traded him when they had the chance to sell high.
This I didn’t know. Oh well. I knew my post was controversial but I thought Duffy’s achilles problem had only extended back a year or 1.5 years. If you’re right that it went back to high school then SFG may have indeed “sold high” and I’d be, well, just wrong. I’ll be more wrong if Moore has a great 2nd half.
Tropicana Field is a mess so I think you’re right that a career resurrection can’t happen at Tampa.
Yes, that’s right. Ironically, in his very last game as a Giant (the day before he went on the DL), Duffy hit a HR…off Matt Moore, same game where Panik got beaned.
With coincidences, it just seems like “when it rains, it pours”.
The substance of most replies is that the severity of Matt Duffy’s injury makes the trade look good. However, many players have nagging problems (as Duffy had with his achilles at SF) and then go on to a recovery … not a rupture. Hindsight is always 20-20! The fact that we threw a farm guy into the trade mix, to me, is an indicator that SFG knew that if Duffy got over his nagging injury, the trade was still a bit better for TBR.
If Lefty is right about her “vague memory” that Duffy’s achilles problems extended back to high school then my original controversial post would just be wrong. Maybe the Giants hid that degree of chronic problem from the Rays. This hypothesis of hiding is lent credence by the fact that at the time they’d traded Moore, Moore had a good career to that point. Surely they wouldn’t have given him up if they suspected the Duffman’s body was about to blow up.
I’ve been out of touch with the blog the last week or so, was there a MyGuys midseason update or can we expect a special guest blog for that?
Oh great another one trying to sale his book!
4 years ago my favorite Giants threw a no hitter. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55ff064b6a039aff52bb1697fd05b7320ce3be9b504237dca9196de48c0071b9.jpg
July 13th, 2013 so 4 years ago from last night , Still have not read anything about what he is doing, Giants need to have a day for him soon , if he agrees to it .
I have a T-shirt commemorating that no-hitter. Maybe I’ll pack it and wear it to Petco tonight–one day late is close enough. I have a Bumgarner T-shirt for tomorrow, of course.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb7ba37369a44d469b3f8a393a13249646a4d692393e89935f057341b2076c2e.jpg
Mine too.
Me three. Still miss that guy. We never got to say a proper goodbye.
I wish he was in our bull pen.
Right Now.
I appreciate the sentiment because he’ll always be a legendary Giant. Alas, his body wouldn’t cooperate.
…as a starter, not as a reliever. Remember, he has a rubber arm. He’ll be able to throw at 50.
But besides the no-no one of the lasting great memories of him will be the way he humbled himself to be a GREAT RELIEVER throughout the 2012 playoffs and WS.
I think after that no-no he got the biggest Buster hug Buster’s ever given.
Today’s Question #6: is the Duffy trade going to be re litigated in these parts forever?
From: the “How the Mighty have Fallen” department, reports that the Red Sox are prepared to DFA Pablo. Which, of course, means…To: the “We Want all Ex Giants Back” department… he’ll soon be available and most importantly, plays 3B. What goes around eventually comes back around?
That’s truly humorous.
Isn’t it though?
Duffy is a blog mosquito compared to the Duvall elephant…
Speaking of elephants…ummm, no to Pablo
He can bite me any time.
Duffy the mosquito, I mean. Just to clarify.
Since poor Duffman has barely gotten on the field after the trade, the part seems like a wash. Even with how awful Moore’s been this year, he actually did help the Giants last year. It’s the Lucius Fox piece that may sting, years later, for two reasons. One, Fox was quoted the other day at the Futures Game as saying that things started to click for him when he was traded to the Rays’ organizations–that he and the Rays’ coaches “gel” better. That’s just one young guy’s opinion, but it certainly goes to larger observations about the weakness of the Giants’ player development system.
More importantly, the Giants paid a $6 mil bonus to sign him, offloaded him just months later, and in so doing, tied their hands for a couple of years with regard to penalties for international signings. So they not only gave up Fox himself; they also gave up unknown opportunity costs.
Again, none of this probably matters much if Moore turns out to be a valuable asset. I know a lot of folks on here want him to be on the Bus to Nowhere with Pablo Sandoval, but I haven’t given up on him yet, and there’s still 2 1/2 years for this trade to actually look really good for the Giants.
It’s frustrating watching him but seems pointless to give up on him now. Unless some team wants to offer them a good prospect, try and fix him. Dyson a good reminder of how quickly it can turn. They have nothing to lose and no one in AAA kicking down their stall.
The really stupid thing about the Fox signing is that they did not aggressively go after a number of other big-ticket int’l free agent signings that year. If you go over budget you should sign as many as possible b/c you won’t be able to sign anyone for over $300K for the next two years. When you sign a Fox then you need to sign other high-profile int’l free agents b/c it will be two years before you can do it again. it is one of the only ways for a team that has been winning to re-stock their farm system — they went cheap after the Fox signing.
Yep. Bingo.
No but what might be ACTUALLY litigated is the Duffy trade itself. If Duffy really had achilles problems all the way back to his high school days then TBR got a guy that was kind of defective for 8 years. I always thought Duffman’s problems were just in his Giants days. So I’ve recanted on the Duffman trade because of Lefty’s revealing comment about the chronicity of Duffy’s woes. As to Pablo, he’s had nothing but negative WAR since becoming a Redsock. He sure was hot to leave SF so with that ugly departure from us and his negative WAR with Boston do we really want him back?
WOW!!!!!!!! Red Sox DFA Sandoval!
That’s a lot of money to DFA.
True, but I guess that’s more than how much was left for Rowand when he got the boot in 2011.
And to think the Giants actually offered him more coin.
Are you really that surprised? I was at first then I remembered one of the basic tenets of good business: cut your losses and move on when you have tried something and it is nothing but a resolute failure.
GG, hypothetically speaking, let’s say the Giants re-signed Pablo to the same deal he got with the Sox; 5 years/$95 mil. Do you think the G’s would’ve DFA’d him, with about $40-42 mil owed to him?
I think the G’s probably knew enough about his psychology to keep him barely small enough to play, at least until Arroyo’s full arrival in Spring 2018. The Red Sox just assumed a player would stay fit, and report to camp in decent shape, but ha ha ha.
He was in shape this year, and still is I think, the weight is just part of the problem .
No, winning is not #1 priority for Giants, it is for Red Sox .
After Epstein left, the Red Sox are not the team, front office wise, they were with him. IMO, Epstein would never have hired Sandoval.
They won the World Series without Epstein in 2013, won the division last year and will win it again this year. Sure, they make mistakes, and yes Theo built some of the foundation, but it’s not like they’ve lost their way without him. A WS title and multiple division championships is doing just fine in my book.
Look at ALL those talented kids in the Boston org.
Many of whom drafted after Theo left.
Yup. At end of 2016 their farm systems were ranked 4th best out of 30. They’re going to continue to churn out good teams for the foreseeable future.
They all ready Fired the guy that signed Pablo .
Kind of unfair firing though. Pablo had positive WAR with us his whole Giants career. How could the signing agent have known Pablo would suck in Boston?
No. Not with his history with the Giants.
It wouldn’t be just about history with the team. That would merely serve as a nice cover for an inability for ownership to stomach paying a guy not to play.
No, The Giants would not DFA him and it would have been about the Giants way and loyalty to a World Series hero. The Giants believe in loyalty to their own and i love them for it, even when it is tough on the team. Look at the length of rope for Cain and Timmy for example. The Giants did not want Pablo because of obvious reasons and they dodged a bullet. The Red Sox were hoping to get World Series Pablo. They did not. They had no loyalty to him. I am surprise the DFA took this long in some respects. Pablo has nobody to blame but himself.
Red Sox do nom worry about Money they worry about winning, Signed two Cuban youngsters for about 150 M, traded 1, and sent the other to the Minors, after he sucked the sent Allen Craig to the Minors then DFA him , paying him 20 million .
That’s been working out really well for them, hasn’t it? (2 post season appearances in the last 7 years, way better than the Giants).
Guess his immaturity got the best of him, and the Red Sox paid the price. Thankfully the Giants didn’t get the chance to make that mistake when Pablo looked toward the East Coast.
Sunk cost is, after all. a real concept.
If you’ve never seen “Hysterical Literature” on YouTube, you’re missing, uh…, well, you know…
Lefty, you must know about this already. It is absolutely…, uh…, hysterical.
I don’t. I’ll have to go look.
Don’t miss the backstory; it’s the most important part. In fact, the YouTube isn’t as good as the dedicated site.
Boston an example of how things can swing… 2012, they lose 93, next yr won 97 and the series. Then they lose 91 and 84 games. Looked kind of grim with those Hanley Pablo Portobello signings and Ortiz aging. Then they win 93 the next yr and now….
They are willing to win at all cost, Giants are not .
A $200m payroll ought to be enough.
Red Sox , paid way more than that for just Cuban prospects, Paid more than that for Price alone .
They need to draft better.
Cuban and Latin prospects are not in the draft, they are additional prospects .
Duh
Even the Dodgers and Yankees have cut back on spending.
They both pay a lot more than the Giants on Latin prospects, and if a player turns out to be a bust, they just replace him, instead of keeping him in the lineup .
Below, it was mentioned how Newkom got fired over his decision to cut losses on Rowand (I think it was PJ). That was a true ans scary story. And, it shows the likelihood that the remaining albatross contracts are going to drag this team down until they’ve are over…
If the owners remain staunch in trying to milk these contracts until they are paid in full, we’re in for a couple of long seasons.
I have never understood how multi millionaire and billionaire owners cannot (or refuse) to grasp the concept of a sunk cost with albatross contracts. It is more valuable to play a young, cheap player (e.g. Posey over Molina, Blach over Cain, Slater over any 2017 LF, etc.) who can provide a boost and provide evaluation for the future than hang on to a washed up, expensive veteran.
Just because one is wealthy, doesn’t mean they’re smart. Look at the successive owners of the Dodgers. A media company then a real estate guy followed by options traders. Night and Day, but all were wealthy.
But wealthy people should understand the concept of a sunk cost. IMO I think it relates to wealthy people wanting to get something in exchange for their money. In other words, the wealthy Giants owners cannot stomach the concept of paying a poorly performing player millions to not play. IMO making them play to “earn” their paycheck is more important than doing what’s best for the organization.
All wealthy people are not equally intelligent nor equally wise. Look at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. if you don’t believe me
POTD … yet my anointment of your post won’t be seen ’cause it’s below a zillion other posts. Disqus giveth and Disqus taketh away.
Leaves in the wind.
It’s the ‘monkey trap’ problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/14/how-to-avoid-monkey-trap-oliver-burkeman
AND extending that argument — it’s a thousand times more profitable to invest in your player development system and bring up strong players you can control over a long period than go shopping all the time for players who have peaked.
I don’t think it was just over Rowand. Neukom had a vision of substantial investment in the farm system and player development. Other owners didn’t share his decision. I think the “palace revolt” was before the Rowand release.
Rowand was the 12 million dollar straw, but you’re correct that Neukom wanted to invest more and more money into the team, into player development, and into technology to help with development, and the owners collectively balked at his desire to cut into their profits.
We will probably never really know why Neukom was canned.
True…i just think Rowand was on the top of the marquis
Keep Sabochy Evans away from K Rod! He just got released
Maybe not. The Dyson thing has turned out pretty well so far.
EDIT: Just remembered his past. No thanks. (And Efrain, don’t bother twitting me about “choir boys.” Domestic violence is something I don’t get over.)
I…kinda wouldn’t mind Sandoval back. He will always be one of my favorites, and as long as the Red Sox are paying the salary…I mean, I doubt he would want back. There’s a reason he left after all. I just got so much joy watching that guy. I’m not sure he’ll be able to even rebound to replacement level, but who knows?
Why do you think he wants to “rebound”?
Oh I thought I was pretty bearish on his chances of ever rebounding, whether he wants to or not. And I know he burned bridges, but SF is all about mending bridges and bringing back legends, and he is indisputably one of the most important part of the championship years. Also, I’m not trying to pretend he didn’t leave poorly, and handled things verbally the wrong way, but I always got the sense that there were details we didn’t know. The team really got to control his narrative after he left, and he never went into detail about any kind of perceived slights. Everybody assumed they were all weight related, but that seems too simple.
It’s like this year when we heard for the first time that Belt was the subject of jokes in the clubhouse, and he was finally sick of it. We didn’t hear any of that until the Posey/Belt confrontation. I wonder what else happened to Sandoval while here. Maybe he was even WORSE than the team stated, or maybe the team or other players did things to him he did not care for. We didn’t really get much insight.
You have a Pablo sticker on your Cadillac
He burned all bridges leading to AT&T. And besides, his body is that of a 45 yr old.
Perhaps you could have him put in Madame Tussauds. That weight he could control his weight.
I shouldn’t laugh at comments about Pablo’s obesity but that comment did.
The operative word is control. 😉
Indeed it was!
That’s a lot of candles
Let them eat cake could be a consonant motto of this particular ball player, so you’re probably on to something as a poignant metaphor.
But you’re a stats lover, Eric, and Pablo has had nothing but negative WAR at Boston. He left us in kind of an ugly way and it seems he’s letting his body go again. You really want him that bad?
The idea that because I like stats somehow means that I can’t like the players or the game for anything but stats, is very frustrating. I don’t love the game FOR the stats, I love the stats because they’re a part of something much greater that I love. The sport, the team, the players, all of it. Timmy had wretched stats for much of the past few years, yet I kept watching, and it was emotionally painful seeing him struggle. Pablo is an all time favorite Giant for me, and I don’t think I’m being unrealistic in my expectations of him. I’d just like to see even a small scale redemption for him.
I wasn’t implying that you loved the game BECAUSE of stats but you respect stats as do I. He got so fat in Boston that he broke his belt in mid-swing. I agree that he was a great Giant but if we took him back he’d be a reclamation project.
Obviously it would be a reclamation project. You seem to be taking my post that said things like “I kinda wouldn’t mind him back” and “I’m not sure he’ll be able to rebound” and turning it into “Why do you want him so bad!?” I obviously realize he’s been bad, and I realize he’ll likely be as bad or worse going forward. I’m not basing my desire for his return on any kind of “well due to his poor luck on balls in play and his above average swing plane I think that…” It’s just because I like the guy.
I definitely can’t refute the “I like the guy” defense. Even a skeptic like myself would take Pablo back if he came back with a little bit of contrition because, right now, we could probably get him for a song.
Your ‘let’s be openminded and take a look’ or redemption POV is what drives Giants management into this kind of bungled management decision. This we’re a family management style has a downside, this is one of them. I’m not so much saying it’s wrong, just that it’s the root of many of the mistakes Giants FO makes, IMO, and at the root of this ‘old guys’ parable that haunts this website.
It’s not even “let’s be openminded and take a look”, more that I like the guy and would like to see a better ending. I don’t want him blocking prospects or playing him just for the sake of playing him, but in a totally lost season with very little to cheer for? A genuine fence mending between team and team legend would make a lot of people smile. Again, I think I’m being pretty realistic in my expectations on him. There may be zero interest from both sides in any sort of fence mending. All I know is in 2022, I want to see him on the field for the 10 year series reunion.
I agree with you totally that a sincere fence mending would bring back some great memories for Giants fans. When he played for us, he sure could pick ’em at 3B, girth and all.
Let him ‘bunk with Bonds’ then. I have to say, there is a certain maudlin horror story meme in this way Giants fans lust for a Disney sort of closure on sports figures career ends.
But sometimes sentiment is earned by performance. Zito’s work in the 2012 postseason probably kept him in the rotation for all of 2013 though he was very bad. However, there should be a time limit on closure
I’m not saying don’t appreciate and honor an athletes performance, just don’t fetishise it, particularly out of context.
He flashed a great glove too back in the day..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSiF8xFEEDU
New nickname! : Gordo Arenado
I will say this: Pablo may actually show someone he can be a baseball player if he is in a no-pressure situation.
Boston fans make Giants fans look like schoolgirl beatles fans. Boston media makes SF media look like children’s book authors.
I wouldn’t freak if they brought him back (since Boston pays the freight). I just don’t think they will
Are you trying to imply he should have spent more money on his shrink than his cook? It might be true to say that Sandoval’s career was killed by his adoring fans who abandoned him in Boston. Sort of death by Panda Hat.
There’s a reason why teams employ psychiatrists. SF is good at constructing narratives, both to turn people on a player, and to make a player into a legend. I know they would be able to put a nice spin on a panda reclamation, and it may be good for both of them.
To me it’s a little like letting a dead animal rot until it doesn’t smell any more. It’s like this montage of nicknames.
I remember Sabean saying 5-6 years ago that maybe Pablo has an eating disorder. They could see him working out at the park, so it had to be his eating. Remember the story about them telling hotels not to send room service up to his room?
Eating disorders are hard to beat. Look at Oprah–more money than God for trainers and chefs, and still she yo-yos.
Some people just aren’t cut out to be ballplayers.
I know, right? Oprah just could never learn to hit the curve ball.
She can really hit righties well… power hitter.
But she did love the tight dress for a few years.
You…cannot be saying that a guy who had 7 seasons of high level play at the highest possible level was not cut out to be a ballplayer
From your POV, yes, from his it was a path ultimate failure. At some point one ought to step back and separate oneself from the Romans in the stands, and Christians and lions in the arena. Although one could take the POV that Boston ended up paying the freight for most of it.
Here’s the deal. Pablo was hungry then.
Pablo is not hungry any more.
The word was that he always worked hard in training, he just ate far more than he burned. Oddly, it got mentioned fairly often that Lincecum could be lazy about working out and training. But since he looked like a skinny guy, didn’t “wear” his issues so obviously like Panda, he never got a bit of grief. Lincecum’s off season training was like Griffey’s: In n Out and X-Box
I still think of his half-chocolate, half-strawberry shakes when I go to In-N-Out…which I swear is not that often. Just like knowing that it’s there! 🍔🍟
Dated a girl eons ago who would get hers Neapolitan. It was delicious all mixed together.
#RememberAptos
Are the all the facts in on those naughty charges?
Yep.
Eating disorders aren’t controllable. He didn’t seem to have a problem when a new contract was on the line.
We all called it–that Boston was going to be a horrible fit for Pablo. Pablo wants to be loved. Giants fans loved him because of the history. Boston fans didn’t give a rat’s ass about the history, nor should they.
Will be ironic if that’s where they end up trading Nunez, won’t it?
All Sandoval ever wanted was money. It was his only motivation; the only thing that was important enough to get him to give a professional effort. He already has everything he needs.
Not money. He wanted to play with his boys Papi and Hanley. Pablo needs big brothers. Edgar here.
I guess that’s why he was so successful in Boston.
Beisbol in America doesn’t seem to suit our Pablo. Tough transition for a dumb immature kid to succeed here. He still can barely mangle English. I was there on both sides of those Game 1 bombs, and that will always leave me pulling for him to succeed somewhere.
Not true. We did not all call it. Some of us thought he might like hitting off green monster. Some of us better stick to prospects.
He has so much money now he can eat forever. He can do nearly anything he wants to now.
#RememberAptos
No chance there is a re-boot.
Oh, I doubt it…just sayin’
Let’s see…prideless, out of shape, over-the-hill player who’s proven that his only significant motivation is money…who hasn’t been even a reasonably productive player for three years? He may be just what they need to help them catch the Phillies.
Scorching take
He can be counted on for the pessimistic side of the sentimental takes
I think your attempt to type “realistic” got auto-corrected to “pessimistic.”
So, did Pablo ‘just’ (versus “just”) forget how to hit ?
I genuinely don’t see who is being “unrealistic”. Nobody has made anything close to a claim of him being some diamond in the rough waiting to be smoothed out.
🔥🔥🔥
Maybe the Giants can start a new trend with Sandoval: bad teams making trading deadline deals to try to become worse for the stretch run and increase their chances of reaching the top of the reverse standings.
Larry Kreuger has your back.
Nice slideshow from Alex P. about the top 10 things the Giants need to do in the second half. I like how he thinks (#FreeKelby).
When I saw the title but before I clicked through, #1 on my list was “Fix Matt Moore.” And there it was on Alex’s list, in exactly those words.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/giants-top-10-goals-second-half?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#slide-13
“Fix’ like the vet did to Louis the Rally Dog? Seems a bit severe.
Yowza!
Hey, it might help. Maybe his balls are throwing off the balls he throws.
No Peaking allowed …
Peaking or peeking? 🙂 those have two very different connotations!
Better to peek after the peaking …..
I’m not sure of the order, or if it means anything, but I think the priorities are there, regardless of the order.
Oh, yes, #FreeKelby. Pavs has to check in here occasionally. We’re so on the same page.
That’s why I do not like him .
A couple of sentimental things happening on the blog today…it reminds me:
I miss Pablo at times…but only miss Good Pablo
I REALLY miss Tim Lincecum. All things Timmy
Still fishing in water under the bridge fed streams?
Given the water that flowed under the Bridge Of Glory, you bet
That’s called feeding a self destructive fetish.
That I miss them? Easy, big fella
OK.
I miss the “Misfits” too.
Well, it’s already been quite a day on TWG. Eric’s Panda defense probably got 100 comments as did my (flawed) “Trading Matt Duffy Was Wrong” piece. But seriously … was TBR not informed that Duffy’s achilles problems were at least 8 years long? If Lefty’s “vague” recollection is correct, TBR should have only given prospects, not Moore, to us. If the rest of the day is as active as before lunch hour, in toto this day will have 1000 posts before the umpires say “Play Ball” tonight.
Remember:
They wanted him.
Which is why I think the SFG FO withheld data from TBR. TBR lawsuit against SFG?
The Russian lawyer failed to mention it
I like your politics, Matthew.
Don Jr tweeted it out, though
So sick of this Donnie Jr. business and the coverage of it. I just wish the whole Trump clan could be buried beneath a mountain, like nuclear waste.
Here’s an interesting mountain of data. Follow the $
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R5AOpTBa6kro2qbSRa7kUD-Gg2FKD7v6vc2EJS7Dooo/edit#gid=1990489212
I don’t have time to read the link. Is it about the Clinton-Russian uranium deal?
We live in interesting times.
“Stupid Watergate”–John Oliver
At the time, Lucius Fox was a bit dinged up, and the Rays considered voiding the deal over his condition. Life is strange.
I agree with what you said earlier, Fox the potential jewel of the trade and the big ooops for Evans.
Fox just turned 20. He’s developing fast. He’ll be a TBR in a few years.
I am disappointed in Pablo because of what coulda-woulda-shoulda. THAT guy made Verlander mutter ‘wow’.
I detest Michael Sandoval, who the Giants gave a SJ Giant contract to play for the Baby Giants. He and then Pablo became greedy, Michael more so than Pablo.
Now the name Bobby Bonilla has been invoked.
https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/status/885648899184226304
Michael was a big part of Pablo’s downfall.
Cubbies may not be through. Rumor about interest in sonny gray is interesting. Could Schwarber fill out a green and gold uni nicely? DH seems to fit.
Sure is Bizarre that Ken rosenthal articles are now on Facebook. And I guess it’s because people prefer videos over written word.
New Post: http://fe0.84e.myftpupload.com/2017-season/game-91-preview-giants-begin-second-half-with-new-optimism-vs-padres/