What happened in 1902? Well, that was the last time the Giants were this far out of first place in July, and Ray Woodson, KNBR host, gives some historical perspective on that in these Tweets:
On the other hand, the Giants won the World Series in 1905 (their first in franchise history)! So that’s not so long to wait! And 2020 is an even year!
So Sorry, Austin
Awful news on Slater’s injury from Alex Pavlovic.
This is worse than I thought. Feel better, Austin. You were one of the few bright spots of this season. I also saw that Jarrett Parker has a sore neck and his rehab has been paused. Parker didn’t play in the River Cats’ doubleheader yesterday and is with the Giants in San Francisco. So, left field for the foreseeable future is…Gorkys. And Mac. What of Chris Shaw, who hit another homer yesterday? Well, Henry Schulman of the Chronicle thinks the Giants don’t want to rush him (or rush starting his clock before they have to) but….sheeesh. Left field, for the foreseeable future, is Gorkys Hernandez and a guy who was struggling in AAA. It is just kind of unbelievable what this has come to. (Also makes you wonder why Slater was playing through a sore hip for a couple weeks–hello, trainers? Anybody home?)
OK, the Game
Full disclosure: I was out eating some of the best prime rib I’ve ever had in my life during the game, at a restaurant a stone’s throw from AT & T Park. Didn’t see any of it except for the bottom of the ninth. The Marlins closer is nasty. Samardzija had a very Samardzija-like game. His rare walk didn’t hurt him, but all the Marlins’ hits did. The Marlins have a pretty great lineup. If Jose Fernandez hadn’t gone joy-riding in the middle of the night last September, this might be a team to watch rather than one perhaps about to be dismantled when Jeffrey Loria finally sells the team. Can we have their whole outfield if they’re selling stuff?
I was going to say something snarky about George Kontos, who as you all know is not one of my favorites, but instead I’ll just observe that wild pitches aren’t usually his thing. (Hanging sliders are. Wait, was that snarky?)
One More Before the Break
So Johnny Cueto’s taking his missed start today, meaning Matt Cain misses his. Then the Giants slink off for a much-needed breather. They have to be wondering why bother coming back. But let’s try to have a good one for the fans today, shall we, guys? Lefty out.
PB by BP … End of the World events.
As a Posey fan, that was on him, not Kontos.
And… the guy got on because the wheels on Span’s walker were locked and he couldn’t unlock them in time.
Yeah, I saw the highlight. It did look like Posey should have blocked it.
I was about to chime in on that “WP…” They were each mad at themselves.
You’re a Posey fan?
Moore than you know
It SKIMMED along home plate.
The ASG week is not usually one of my favorites, as it normally feels like a week-long reminder that Baseball Winter will eventually come again. Maybe the 5 days off will help my mood a bit? A win today would help, but doesn’t seem too likely.
The 60 man rosters on each side with everybody getting a slice of the action tends to water the game down for me, but go National League!
The last three innings feel like the MLB version of the Futures Game – mostly I don’t know who they are, but they are the rising cream. I’m glad it’s back to being an exhibition game again, as they are very good players.
I find the ASG to be a bore and generally only watch a few innings and then fade out. Otherwise, it’s a needed 5-day break which helps teams for the push to 162. I think baseball should retreat to the 154 game season. Then we wouldn’t be playing baseball in November which is a sin.
bring back the scheduled double headers???
My biggest peeve is the interleague play, one should only have the AL involved for the ASG and the WS.
I actually miss double headers. Back in those days, rotations were 4-man and pitchers were he-men who regularly completed games. It just seems like players are much more fragile than they used to be.
Great tweets by Woodson! And splendid flight from Kittyhawk, Lefty. I wonder how far Bumgarnerville is from Kittyhawk. Probably on the other side of the Appalachians. I recall Fernandez was engaged in “distraught riding”. Human behavior, its the stuff of tragedies. Could a deal structured around Bumgarner for Yelich possibly be conceived???
All you want it Yelich? Are you into the locoweed again??
Except that he’s really really good, plays CF, not free agent until 2022 and is highly affordable and isn’t a pitcher with a lot of mileage and a shoulder injury. But for you, I’m sure we could finagle another player or two :o)
Another CFer who can’t throw. Make another Bonds deal – go for Giancarlo.
I actually haven’t seen instances of his throwing. Can’t be Span bad, or remotely close. But he can range and hit! Oh well, this isn’t a fantasy anchored in reality. The Giants don’t have trade pieces on farm to acquire star talent. Giancarlo is one albatross of a contract. But if you are bullish on the apocalypse, go for it!
In principle, we could go for guys on other teams with over-large contracts but our problem is that we have a raft of players whose contracts go way, way up starting next year so we are hosed.
As Ulysses Everitt McGill was wont to say: “we’re in a tight spot”
I missed that movie. Worth seeing?
oh yes – especially if you’re a big fan of Homer.
In principle I’d go for the Giancarlo deal but he tends to get injured so, on balance, I think it’s a no-go.
Foots…Paul is right…he has Span Wing Syndrome. If you traded Bum for Yelich, you’d go to into the Trent Baalke hall of fame.
Getting rid of Bum would be like getting rid of Babe Ruth in 1927. Yelich is good but Bum has legend written all over him. Bum’s bad luck is that for the next several years he’ll probably go .500 because he’s pitching for a team that will lose 2-1 games unlike the 2010 G’s who won the vast majority of such games.
I personally would NEVER trade Bum, Craw, Posey…and don’t want to trade Belt, Panik, Marge.
Marge shows that ERA’s can be deceptive. He tends to keep you in games even though you might lose 4-3, especially THESE Giants. I agree with all of your never-trades.
Another way of looking at it is that he seems to pitch just well enough to lose.
Just well enough to lose ON THIS TEAM. Samardzija’s 4.58 places him pretty close to the NL median ERA (which is Colorado at 4.50) so he definitely doesn’t deserve 4-10. On an average hitting team he’d be more like 6-7.
Disqus has such weird lapses. I posted that Smarge’s ERA of 4.58 is right about at league median (Colorado 4.50) so he should be 6-7 or 7-7, especially since the Reds are at league median run production at 4.65 runs/game. So excuse me if this shows up as a double post. Smarge definitely does NOT deserve 4-10.
Well, maybe if he didn’t give up a HR ball every game, he’d be at your .500 level even pitching for this year’s Giants.
Maybe but stats are stats and based on league median ERA and league median run production, the stats scream that he has deserved a better fate. HR’s are just part of his ERA … nothing more, nothing less. However, his 1.15 WHIP suggesting he should have a better ERA really is due to giving up dingers.
Smarge’s 1.15 WHIP would usually translate to a fabulous W-L record. However, dingers are ERA inflators. Nonetheless, he does play for the Giants who score 3.89 runs/game. Hence 4-10. Imagine if he played for the Dodgers (5.15 runs/game). Then he’d be lionized for his “grittiness”.
That reminds me of several major staring pitcher losers of the past – one has to be a pretty good pitcher to get that opportunity.
Think Matt Keogh with As or Roger Craig.with Mets or Matt Cain early in Giants career.
I tend to think that losing as a pattern tends to wear down a pitcher and shorten and lessen careers.
Cain, particularly, had a verb named after him (“Why Bum got Cain’ed in this game!”) signifying lack of run support. Look at 2007 as “Exhibit A” when he had a way-better-than median ERA at 3.65 and ended up 7-16.
The extreme opposite example would be Steve Carlton, who won 27 games in 1972 while pitching for a Phillies team that only won 59 games all season.
Indeed. I remember that season vividly. The Phillies played like the 1927 Yankees behind Carlton (aka “Lefty” but he wasn’t a Dr.).
I agree with you about the no trades in the immediate future of these players except maybe Bumgarner who I would consider in a mega trade even before the accident injury. I could see training them several years from now when they are clearly in permanent decline to make room for new talent.
Why? Bumgarner has many pirches expended and no other SF Giant pitcher has a longer run of success except Juan Marichal. In a practical view signing Bumgarner to a long high priced contract would reward past low cost success but was and is unlikely to get a pitcher that performed at the same sustained high level as the historic Bumgarner.
I worry that Bumgarner will not be the same pitcher after the injury. Shoulders are tricky.
Wow, that is funny !
Kittyhawk was Dec 1903 and was considered a success, this team is more like the Shiloh Baptist ChurchStampede of 1902.
Lefty … glad to hear that your take on Shaw (bring him up NOW!!) is the same as mine. He would quickly become the power hitter or a team bereft of power. Also glad to hear from you that Cueto is starting. That means his inner ear infection was the “quick-attack-then-go-away” form of that malady. I always enjoy your guest posts so keep those cards and letters coming!
There’s also Hank’s take. 40 man considerations and being damn sure he is ready!
To jettison Gorkys or Kontos from the 40 man would be unimaginable. How on earth could the Giants build for the future if those two weren’t protected?!
I still am a little surprised by the Kontos “hate” around these parts…
I guess it’s evident that Denard Span does not have Torii Hunter’s genes. Too bad, but props to Span for still being able to hit at a high level while his body is going down the crapper.
When you look at his stolen base history, his current line of 4 SB, 3 CS is telling you that during his SF stint he’s not really even trying to steal. In other words, HE knows he’s lost at least a step.
They can bring up Shaw in Sept and not use the 40, correct?
My bad then. I plead ignorance about such matters.
Oh September is a special period with strange, fluid rules. I don’t know much about service time considerations and arbitration clock rules during September.
Me neither. But if he can be a Sept call up without affecting his arb clock, why not wait 6 weeks? The season is in the squatter.
You can only bring players up in September if they’re on the 40.
Since we all have our targets, I’m gonna bitch about Moore again.
The team has been showing signs of life. All the embarrassment ( see above: Woodson, Ray), they seemed to get jolted recently after the national ridicule and rumors started increasing ( Risenthak). They appeared to rally together with a circle-the-wagons approach and began wimping. They finished up a reasonably successful road trip, and were coming home.
Game 1 – before fans had even sat down in their seats, Moore had imploded and basically sucked the air out if the stadium and team. Though I compare him to Sanchez, his was more like the Bad Zito times, when momentum got urinated on regularly.
This team exam is not good. It’s fragile. There are huge problems…but for a week plus, it felt better. They were now coming home for the final series before the break and could feel a tiny bit better.
That performance, on top of his league worst season so far, was brutally disappointing.
So, what to do with a guy that has good physical gifts, but who appears to have be one a lab that puddles on the mound? I guess you stick with him and hope (?) he gets his head out of his ass? I maintain that there is no bigger disappointment on this bad team than him.
Moore is BY FAR the biggest disappointment in a season chalked full of them…with the Slater injury perhaps taking second place now. I would also venture to say the new, expensive closer makes the top 5 (not because they’d be in contention if he pitched as expected, but because he’s been pretty bad and it looks like a bad team is now stuck with a high priced closer on the decline for three more years).
Top Five Biggest Disappointments:
5. Slater injury
4. Pence Crawford batting under performance
2. MadBum injury
1. Entire team collapse
That’s a pretty good list. Can’t argue.
I can’t count Slater among them because wasn’t expecting him to have a major impact when the season started and the injury while unfortunate, comes when they are out of it. Smith’s injury on the other hand…and Bum’s ..
Melancon was obviously the big signing.
I was never sold on Melancon. Seems like MLB closer success is pretty highly correlated with gas. Melancon is a “control” reliever?! I don’t buy it.
Being successful is highly correlated with not being injured. Unfortunately, Melancon hasn’t been fully healthy all season.
You could have a point. Often players hide what they hope are minor hurts for a few outings before they confess.
I don’t think Moore has the same upside that he had before the injury while at Tampa Bay. He may have good games but nothing that can be sustained. The trade by TB may have been because TB already had that conclusion and would have been way one-sided had Duffy not had his own injury problems.
If 2016 is the absolute upside for Moore, why do we want him on the team anyway? A .500 pitcher with a 4 plus ERA?
The recent Giants have a pattern of holding onto and using starting pitchers that are not pitching well start after start with an occasional QS. I don’t get why a 5th starter that pitches .500 is a goal. To me that pitcher is a placeholder why the team looks for a better starter.
Time to drop more and let him be some other teams problem and potential.
Great point – what if 2016 was as good as it gets?
I believe that it was Oscar Wilde who, commenting on his Paris apartment said something like, “either the drapes go, or I do.” Similarly I am perilously close to saying “either Matt Moore goes, or I do.
Empty threat. Moore will eventually go. You never will.
Thanks for the compliment about my Giants loyalty I guess. But note that I only said that I was close. Besides Moore will be gone soon
Exactly TO’s point! Surf Maui will outlast Moore and the rest of the dead spots on this team, and keep on filling out scorecard pages for many years to come.
I don’t know of a better Giants fan, and there are many here. It’s a good thing you had a successful career; your fruitless search for a pair of lucky shoes might’ve bankrupted a lesser man.
Thanks for the nice words. I shall try to live up to them.
They’ve lost 4 out of 5. Yesterday was the only one of those 5 that Moore started. Moore’s previous start was a win where he gave up one run. It’s been a total team effort.
I know you’re on Team Moore….what about this season gives you any positives? For a guy who ridicules me for backing an MVP, Gold Glove, ROY, Silver Slugger with 3 rings, I find it incredibly rich that you have the audacity to defend Moore.
I’m not on team Moore, he’s been bad, but I disagree with him being the scapegoat. A team isn’t this bad without many contributors. Even Posey, who’s been the best player, has contributed: .238 with runners in scoring position, .344 otherwise.
If you took the time to read my words, you would have noted this gem : ” This team is not good. It’s fragile. There are huge problems”.
The fact I am hugely disappointed in his horrendous start is entirely defensible. I have no idea what motivates you to cherry pick to instigate…other than you seeing that as a sport.
In other words, is there something of substance in my post that you say is incorrect? Anything? Or, as I said, is it just about instigating an argument?
The problem is that you seem to think that disagreeing with you, or even questioning your opinions, is “instigating.”
Only when you do it.
Yeah. How could anyone honestly disagree with you?
Many do. And I’m fine fine with it. If you truly and honestly want to sell me, and most of this blog, that your wording is NOT meant to instigate, no sale. You clearly, clearly know exactly what you’re up to. So, play innocent if you wish. I’m confident in my analysis of your motivations and tactics
I’m impressed that you think you speak for most of the blog. My alternate analysis is that you’re extremely thin skinned and get more easily upset than most when someone pointedly disagrees with you, particularly when it concerns a player you view as a hero.
Only you…and they aren’t my heroes
I don’t know why you get that upset. You’ve called me all kinds of names and it hasn’t bothered me once.
Wonder if Bruce goes with the “National Lampoon’s Vacation” lineup today to give some of the boys an extra day?
Span ( or Gorkys)
I’m guessing Posey gets a day because he’s going to the All-Star Game. Everyone else should play.
Hwang cannot play 2B, but that was Gomez’s only position in AA this year. (And before you say it, yes, I saw his AB last night. It was just one.)
I had no issue with his AB…it was a “welcome to facing an MLB closer” moment and nothing more
Exactly. I said to Mr. L: “They don’t see pitches like that in AA.”
AB Friday night yielded a scorcher. Since when did this crew fail to make predictions after a small sample size– good or bad
Gomez can hit the question is where he can play, similar in that regard to Sandoval.
May that be the only similarity to Sandoval (who at one time I thought would be well on the way to HOF by now).
He needs a day, if not a week, 5 for his last 30, and got a lucky double last night .
Correct, Todays lineup, same as last nights, except Hundley in for Posey .
“Extra day” … that’s hilarious, but it IS probably Bochy’s thinking. Left hanging: An extra day for what? Makes no difference how many games any of them plays. Bu we’re left with a daily reminder of Bochy’s odd interpretation of offense: Pence batting third.
It’s a lost season. What’s the upside of playing everyone versus the downside? Just thinking they can have a week off. I know I need one
Slater must have torn the living s**t out of his leg. I view that as the toughest break in a season full of them.
Not to be snarky, but how many games have the Giants lost in the first inning with the runs they surrendered there.
What’s more galling giving up a couple in the first or giving up a run(s) in the 8th-9th after they have comeback to tie the game?
What is the restaurant?
Alexander’s Steakhouse: http://www.alexanderssteakhouse.com/ash_mobile.htm
It’s pricey as hell (we skipped right to the main course because we were so sticker-shocked), but damn, is it good.
I can’t keep up with the big ticket carnivores this week!
Is the House of Prime Rib still there on Van Ness?
I haven’t been to San Francisco since 2003 but went there for good meals from the 1950s as a child through the 1990s.
In 1966 age 13 / 8th grade I was sent to boarding school in Marin. My first trip away was a Saturday with friends / former clients of my grandparents who took me to the San Francisco Fly Casting Club. My grand parents had a fishing and hunting resort on the Klamath River from 1921 tom 1959. My grandfather was sort of a cult figure and many of his clients were members of the club. We went to House of Prime Rib on the way back to Marin. I haven’t fished for years and River and fish conditions are no where near the same.
Funny you should mention the House of Prime Rib. When I complimented the prime rib I was eating, the server whispered that he’d worked there for ten years and the prime rib at Alexander’s was way better. I’d agree.
I’m also from Marin. Grew up in Larkspur and graduated from Redwood High School. My mom still lives in San Rafael.
I was in Marin 66-68 / 8th – 9th grades at the now defunct San Rafael Military Academy (ugh). SRMA was owned by the Episcopal Church that had a gold rush era church and a summer seminary adjacent to grand parents’ resort so people from the Church and SRMA often ate in the dining room and used guide services and were otherwise friends. I smoked my first joint sitting at the base of the cross in Boyd Park.
You might know of my exe who lives in Davis where she went to grad school. She was the founding executive director of a environmental land trust, serves on the board of several environmental groups, and is active in Democratic Party politics.
I probably do. We’ve lived in Davis since 1991.
Everytime that I have tried to go there since I first ate there in 1974 it is impossible to get a reservation between 5. and 9
I went there mostly (20 or so times) with my grand parents and their fishing friends from San Francisco who were wealthy and two had financed their resort until title was purchased by my parents in late 1940s. The resort is long gone; flooded in 1955, sold in 1959, and ruined by flood in 1964 and, after several fires, the only remain is a large stone river rock chimney. First place I lived.
One of the investors was the couple who took me there the same day as the fly casting club. In 69-70 my Dad built 6 ramps into the River (rather than wade) where I would take him fishing at his call. If one took a Cat and built ramps into the River today you would probably go to jail!.
Harry could not see or hear or catch fish that well but he was picture perfection in fly casting but also nearly 90 years old. He died soon after but his much younger widow lived until the 1990s and she would take me and mine to HOPR probably to talk about her husband and my grand parents and past times. So being a geezer now myself SF, and Prime Rib is nostalgic.
yep sure is and just as delicious as ever — except the city has got Van Ness all the hell torn up to add Muni lanes and all manner of other lane changes
Top Five Disappointments of the Season? (I’m limiting myself to five because there are sooooo many possibilities.)
1. Bumgarner’s dirt bike wipeout
2. Moore’s terrible season (he’s MyGuy™!)
3. Melancon being ineffective and injured
4. Cueto being ordinary at best
5. Crawford’s bat disappearing
(I’d say “everything outfield,” except that I expected that to be bad. The above list are things that are true disappointments.)
I was conjecturing that Craws’ batting miseries have made Joe P. that much more valuable (i.e., untradable).
Numbers 4 and 5 seem partially the result of the general environement; Crawford would hit better if the team had hit and fielded and pitched better. Same with Cueto. It was maybe unrealistic to expect another 2016 but it could have still occurred but Cueto has likely been dragged down by the team failure.
I would add the disaster that no player found success in left field.
I think the groin injury early in the season messed him up. When he got back, the team was in a tailspin and he was probably pressing. Craw was raking in the WBC, so he didn’t forget how to hit over the winter.
The groin injury and distraction from his wife’s family tragedy certainly have contributed. To me Crawford is a lifer Giant, his history with the team from childhood is heartwarming.
For me, aside from how boring and uninteresting the team has been this season, is the lack of fire and leadership from the core veterans. Posey up in the first inning last night with runners on, the season is shot, let it fly, be aggressive, but no, watches two hit me back door breaking balls go by, and, oh shucks, stroll back to the dugout without a care in the world. The gal on Giants Outsiders says Kontos giving up a run in the top of the ninth was the game loser but Posey’s pathetic effort in the first inning set the tone.
Pence could not care less, what happened to the guy who rallied the troops, he was never a great player, even though he’s declined he should still be able to provide the same leadership (if he wanted to). Crawford, don’t get me started, I did see the other night when he struck out again that he thought about getting pissed but caught himself, the check will clear, going to Cancun with the family during the break, whatever. And Bochy, goes without saying.
I think you could revise that list to include the outfield. Even though you expected it, it’s still among your biggest disappointments. You could easily drop Crawford off your list as while his bat hasn’t been as good as the last few years, it hasn’t exactly disappeared.
SMH. Write your OWN list!
Mid season grade for everyone !!!
A BIG FAT F !!! Embarrassing performance and heads should start to role.
Like Ned Starks!
Waiting for 2018:
Sorry I don’t know how to fix this.
Paying homage to the Chinese New Year, I think we should call this season the Sideways Cat
The Giants 2017 season… gone sideways.
0 G Space cats?
Jon Lester imploded for 10 ER in 0.2IP today before being yanked from the game.
Are the Cubs going to make the PO this year? 2nd WC maybe?
I still see them as having the superior roster in that middling division, and think they will pull it together.
Yeah, their pitching isn’t even close to what it was last year but simply too much talent on that squad..
It would be very interesting if they do fall short though.
Go Brewers 🍻
Release the catcher
Not bringing Shaw up and relying on Gorky and Mac to man LF is another display of the FO’s ineptitude this season. Whether it’s not bringing up Hwang earlier or playing vets who didn’t have it anymore (i.e. Stubbs) when other rookies in AAA deserved it more, I just gotta SMH.
here’s a couple of pics from the concert my better half and i saw friday night. bonnie raitt started the show off. she was terrific. she did a few covers, and a few of her own songs. she finished the set off by bringing out james taylor, and together they did john hiatt’s classic, “thing called love”.
after a quick break, james taylor came out and did his set, which did not disappoint. steve gadd, the legendary percussionist, was on drums, which was a nice surprise. JT did all his crowd favorites, much to the joy of the sold out beach venue. ms. raitt joined him for his final few songs, which was a real treat. the two rock & roll HOF’ers really were on their game.
Now that sounds like a Lotta fun! Nothing like music to soothe and shake the soul.
that’s where the fun ended. when we got home, i had taped the giants’ game, and, well, you know…
I’m kind of thinking that if the Marlins score in the top of the first, I should try to find something else to do with the rest of my Sunday.
It’s worked for me this series. Game 1 was liberating.
I’m finally getting my Netflix money’s worth.
I remember being very pumped that the ‘black time’ of the off-season was about over, when the camp opened. What the blazes happened?
They had a winning record in the Cactus League. I never saw this coming. Mediocre or middling, maybe. Historically terrible–nope.
But … They didn’t hit. Ever
It’s like taking off your bra on a hot day……I would imagine
No need to qualify it. You can be honest here.
I’m the Tim Curry of TWG
It’s like taking your bra off on any kind of day.
I’ve loved their shows. Saw the Shoreline one years ago.
Diggin’ his Telecaster…nice
ironic that he’s playing an electric, and she’s got an acoustic git…
The TWG gang is listing their biggest disappointments…and most are similar. I noted some mentioned injuries, so I’ll include those, as well as “decisions”:
1. Matt Moore.
2. The outfield plan, including not just the LF gamble, but the aging and brittle Span and Pence, forcing a 5th OF in Hernandez to get way too much playing time
3. The fall off of Posey, Crawford and to a lesser degree Panik as dangerous forces at the plate ( Pence belongs here, but I already mentioned him)
4. Roster decisions that opened the season with Hill, and then Ruggiano, Stubbs and the feel-good-story-until-he-actually played Marrero. The added near miss of Rollins even being considered
5. Melancon. Starting with the very first game. ( I’m thinking he has been injured all along… sure)
6. Will Smith. He could be higher up this list…
8. Matt Cain. I was rooting with my heart that his first month would maintain. His arm is toast.
9. Parker’s injury.
10. Mac Williamson’s apparent failure to seize the opportunity.
11. The exposure of the lack of mound maturity of Derek Law.
12. The spiraling escalating move of Hunter Strickland, leading to a losing streak and horrible press
1A. The overarching reality that the organization rolled the dice on so many things on this list with very little solid back up plans, and their resulting head scratching scrambling panic with no obvious master plan other than keeping the sellout streak alive.
I winged this, but there are probably 47 other things that could make the list
I’ll add two here Matthew: Bum being out of the rotation due to his part-time BMX job, and IMO, I think the team, as a whole, misses Flannery.
Apparently, I have blocked the dirt bike from my consciousness….
Flann – with you, but he was gone the last couple years prior and I think Nevin’s an upgrade…but Bochy misses Flannery’s balls to challenge him…
My point exactly (re: Bochy misses Flannery’s balls to challenge him).
It would save time to list the good things from this year,
a) Ty Blach providing a very credible replacment for Bum
b) Austin Slater taking an OF job (never mind the leg muscle thing, I mean before that)
c) Jae-Gyun Hwang has a chance at being entry #3.
Well done..that says it. The question we’re left with: why does the roster play so old, when it isn’t really?
Coincidentally 47 is my favorite number.
well I think your last point [?1A ? ] puts the entire season in perspective and I could not agree more !
Good afternoon all. Late night as we got home around midnight.
If it was anyone else other than Pence or Gorkys at the plate with 2 outs in the ninth, the tying run scores from third. Then again, if Kontos doesn’t uncork a WP, things probably would’ve been different.
Anyway, it was a great night nonetheless; just to get out of the heat of Sacramento and in the coolness of The City by the Bay.
More pics from yesterday. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a51450a1e5c21fd26316f1969d677a4b168494ba1cd1adf4cbff87485766329a.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a0f0a5e99e138d6d150a18f16edd37073e323df79041f5e405e385f5944e7219.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b5e93831132e102167af0dd903505501b3b31d759e06ac4321b2984f46a87faf.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/59cbd7bdda19ab020abd7aaec73642cebf41837f822f17521f92a339dc97c662.jpg
Coolness? When that guy termed ballplayers “The Boys of Summer” he didn’t have windy 57 degrees in mind. You see a lot of winter parkas in the stands at G’s games. Nonetheless, when Sacto’s 106 that would be totally sapping to the players.
True. We did have tickets to the RiverCats DH yesterday, but opted instead for cooler weather. It seemed like everyone in NorCal was headed to the Bay Area yesterday. Took us 2 and a half hours to get to SF.
No, that’s just the New Bay Area with the nation’s 2nd worst traffic congestion. When I saw the 3rd Trump/Clinton debate at a friend’s house 5 miles away it took me 47 minutes to get there (Palo Alto to Mountain View).
Oh I know (the new bay Area). Nonetheless, it was straight up ridiculous.
I’ve also noticed that on that stretch of I-80 between Sacto and SF it seems like it goes bumper-to-bumper at every entrance ramp for many minutes.
Going thru Fairfield east and west is one of the worst logjams on I-80. It actually started yesterday between Davis and Dixon.
If that 80 mile drive took you 2.5 hours you were averaging 32 mph. That IS “straight up ridiculous”.
I told Mrs. Crawnik that the next time we’re in the City for a game, we’re spending the night there.
If so, better be prepared to pay major shekels. Hotels in SF cost you several body parts and at least your two first born children.
We have a timeshare in the City, so we’re good. if that’s full, I can get great deals on booking.com and hotels.com. We have done it before and usually stay in Burlingame.
Good preparedness = Good luck. You’re a Boy Scout!
I just realized we’ve been talking about congestion and cost which are the two major reasons why I’m down here in Tempe, AZ right now. Palo Alto just morphed into a boring, stone cold bummer of a town.
I just read on azcentral.com yesterday that they’re building a “flyover” freeway on Loop 202? Isn’t that like an expressway and there is opposition to it?
I dunno. I’ve only been here a year and have not yet steeped myself on local politics and initiatives. In any case, traffic where I live in south Tempe is a dream compared to the nightmares of the 101, 580, and 680. People seem WAY more relaxed here.
It does seem more relaxed down there, no doubt. Well, enjoy the game. Let’s get a win today.
If Johnny’s really all better from his ear grunge, we’ve got a puncher’s chance.
Well, it is a day game after a night game, so…
Giants a must win today to start the second half on a positive note. Time to remove the snake bite. LA can have it. We don’t want it anymore.
If today’s scores hold up, the Cubs will go into the break two games under .500 and 5.5 games behind Milwaukee. This may be a bigger surprise than how bad the Giants are.
But a delightful one, in complete contrast
Cubs gave up 10 runs in the first to the Buccos. Good for them. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Maddon.
🍻 ⚾ 🏆
I think Footy nailed it with emojis…but when you look at their season, a few things pop up:
David Ross was their clubhouse soul.
Monterey upset the cart after last year
Arrieta came in overconfident at the same time he was declining, and passed up huge money.
Bryant, Rizzo, and Russell regressed to the mean and were also highly scouted
Schwarber came back to earth
Seasons are amazingly stand-alone
The rotation has been very vincible. Lester’s been good but not great. Arrieta hasn’t really even been good.
It will serve Arrieta right if he never gets the big bucks he was offered.
they are even though we want them to go on and on — which is what makes the repeat As – the Big Red Machine and some of those repeat Yankee teams just downright incredible !
ps: many think that the 75-76 Reds would have added a 3rd W/S but they sold their soul as well — Tony Perez was traded to the Expos for 2 pitchers : ( people in Cincinnati never got over that. The Giants would be wise to think long and hard before they trade their “soul” players too [i’m thinking Bum – Buster – Crawford]
Great post Dr as always.
I’ll tidy it up a little bit when I get to a computer.
Kinda cool, Future’s game on The Network. B. Reynolds probably gets ab late in the game. Lucius Fox playing for world.
That’s a big responsibility
Think about the weight Miss Universe carries…
Oh, good. I’d forgotten that’s where Reynolds was. I’d noticed he wasn’t in the SJ box score the last couple games. Way things are going, I figured he was injured, too.
The Mighty Quinn has reappeared, but Duggar apparently is still struggling with his hamstring injury.
Today is Game 162 for the Giants since the start of the post All-Star break from last year. Giants record since that time: 64-97.
They did not lose 100+ games!
and i still don’t understand how this amalgamation of badness overtook them — i’ve read the reasons and there are many and the theories of confused management, bad clubhouse juju, weak player leaders, etc etc but i still don’t understand how last year’s may [.724]+ june [.629] teams devolved into THIS ! there’s a story here and I do wish one of our baseball journalists would have the intestinal fortitude to dig it out and publish it.
Quick Line-Up Question that I did not see any posts on…
Why is Mac here and not starting?
Bochy does not like him .
I am starting to believe you.
What Peter said.
Mac didn’t get a promotion because he earned it. He got it because he’s the last guy standing right now.
Or sitting, as it were
Still, so the Giants need more time to evaluate Gorkys? I am getting so I hope Mac “Duvalls” them very soon. Either it is something a very smart FO knows how to handle or they really do get tunnel vision and refuse to give prospects any more chances after a certain limit. Either way I do not get it; but I am just a fan.
I’m on Team Mac, too. I assume he’ll get some playing time, and hopefully he can show them something. Ever since his nice July for them last year, he’s pretty much done nothing, either for the Giants or in AAA. Wonder if it’s injuries or ennui.
And that’s how this game gets started…
The Cubs are getting pounded 13-2 by the Pirates in Wrigley.
Yay! Pound away, Pirates.
You are good at old news, at least this time it is in the same day .
You’re making me laugh. Underrated sense of humor
He usually posts links that were in the news a week a go .
“THe Killer H’s”. I dig Kuiper
Johnny’s FB is a few mph down. A bit worried.
He’s definitely the wrong side of peak velocity. Chances still seem high he’s elsewhere next year.
I think you’re right but how do you get rid of a guy you’ve contracted to pay mega-money?
All these injuries are going to set us back a couple years. Management will trot out the same lame excuse that they really couldn’t evaluate the talent cause they are all hurt. Gives management a get out of jail free card.
Number one priority in off season –
Replacing the whole outfield.
Pac…. the money they have committed to Span and Pence likely means we’re stuck watching the disaster all next season…. I’m not confident that 2018 will be a big improvement
According to Schulman, Giants are doing it again. Pitcher who finished the pre ASG season is now scheduled to pitch the first game of the 2nd “half.” Cueto will have normal rest, but would it kill them to give him a few extra days? It’s not like the Giants are in the heat of a pennant race.
I guess they want to showcase Cueto as much as possible before the trade deadline
I think that’s it, and Cueto hasn’t been racking up the innings the same way MadBum did last year at this time.
And they’re in San Diego again to start the 2nd half. That’s bad juju.
Agree, don’t want Bumgarner to pitch until the next series, due to the juju.
Or at all. He jujued himself good
It all went wrong in the post-ASG series in San Diego last year. So maybe, one year later, that’s where the turnaround will start! Mr. Lefty and I, along with Sister Lefty, Brother Lefty, and Brother-in-Law Lefty, are all heading to Petco next weekend for the intervention.
Bring the particles and pixie dust too.
and a little magic wandu can’t hurt either
we’ll be looking for your reports of all good things from the Lefty tribe in beautiful san diego !
You’d prefer Moore?
Blach should be rested.
Craw, turning the corner.
Craw nuts it!
Even with a BA at .222 doesn’t he now lead the team with 44 RBI? Hits when it counts!
He just tied Belt for the team lead with 44 RBI.
What an irony. Two low BA’s lead the team in RBI.
It’s not that impressive when you consider (a) he’s hit in an RBI spot all year (b) he’s tied with Belt, who spent a good part of the year batting second and (c) he had 70 RBIs at the All-Star break last year.
Agreed, 44 RBIs in 90 games is nothing to boast about.
If your shortstop gets 80 RBI every year ( and is a Gold Glove), it’s quite impressive.
The problem I see guys like Pence and Posey not knocking in runs as they should
Considering all the things that Dr.Lefty pointed out, 44 RBIs in 90 games is not amazing.
But I agree with you, Pence and Posey are also not producing as they should. Hence, 44 RBIs good enough to lead the team
59 at ASB 2016 and 25 after ASB 2016 for a total of 84.
Crawford’s BA didn’t drop off in 2016 after the ASB but his RBI rate did.
The Giants malaise started after the 2016 ASB.
Last I checked he also lead MLB in PA with runners on 3rd and less than 2 outs. And leads MLB in sac fly RBI. So he’s had a lot of opportunities to get RBI while still making outs. It’s good the runs scored, but it’s also opportunities that others haven’t had.
Hwang was a feel-good story while it lasted.
Don’t jump off yet. Batting averages mean nothing until about 100 at bats.
It’s looking like he needed that time in AAA.
We should rename that section “The Crawford Boxes”
What… just happened?
Stupid throw by Belt.
Did Belt just pick up 2 errors on one play?
Just one on the throw, I think
2017…That’s what happened.
My worries about Johnny are intensifying. He’s trying guile more than brute force and went to the well once too often with the changeup.
It’s like a staff of Tim Hudson In His Last Season
i think they’ve had about 2 or 3 shut down innings all year..
They’re stuck with Cueto and his megamillions unless he convinces some other team he actually gives a rip
Not necessarily. If he decides to opt out of his Giants deal, they’ve not stuck at all.
He went to a loaded KCR team so I’m doubting he’s gonna want to stay with this outfit.
3 bb, and a hbp in 3 innings
In fairness, 1 BB was an IBB.
still, not real sharp, which was my point
And your point was correct.
also, other than 2 or 3 times, the opposition always has s/d innings against us
What’s the name of that stupid movie that the little kid pitches for the Cubs, and then he slips on a baseball at the very end and loses his speed?
Span is the kid after the fall
Rookie of The Year
All too often when G’s do get an early lead, the pitcher’s go out the very next inning and give it back.
Starting to feel like they smell a vacation…swinging at pitches without much conviction.
There’s been a lot of jumping down the throat of Belt and Craw this season but, really, if we want to jump down a throat the more rightful perp would be Pence.
Why? Belt and Craw are in their physical primes while Pence is clearly over the hill.
Maybe if folks would give up all the goofy player nicknames, it would change the Giants luck.
Wait until the game on Aug. 25, MLB will relax the uniform rules and players will be allowed to wear their nicknames on their uniforms.
Demand them in braille.
So we wanna know: Would you trade a Horse and a Giraffe for a Bull?
Well punishing player(s) with ‘insightful’ critique and endless rosterbation doesn’t seem to help. All these nicknames seem to connote some sort of affection. That’s about all the leverage the TWG faithful have left, deny them your ‘love’. ;-).
I think it’s all Samardzija’s fault for having too many run-together consonants in his last name. Hence “Smarge”.
I always used knucklehead for Samardzija to avoid confusing him.
There’s definitely no overlap there!!
Dumb as a box of rocks demanded a confusing acronym.
What led you to that analysis? I’d take his competitive nature over almost all of them, and I’ve never considered him unintelligent
I was blessed, in another life, of watching him come up with the Cubs. When you don’t seem to be coachable, it’s a natural conclusion. In any case, it’s my opinion. Maybe he’s a nice guy, maybe.
Not sure how nice he is, but I appreciate his red ass style…
Sometimes nicknames are a ruse for someone too lazy to learn the correct spelling.
That was a nice catch…and he even added The Pagan Unnecessary Wall Jump for style points!
they all want to be like bo…#greatestathleteever
Urena reminds me so much of former Dodger pitcher Ramon Martinez.
In the All-Star Futures Game, the US leads the World 4-0 after 3 innings. Reynolds hasn’t yet gotten in the game. The World Team manager is Edgar Renteria! And I like that the abbreviation for the World Team is “WFT.” : )
Johnny ain’t got it today. He should’ve done with Stanton what he did with him his first at-bat.
Look at Hundo go!
The Giants games have become in fact nap time for me. I nod off and miss innings.
We get extra MyGuy points for right handed homers to right at home, right?
Ha … Overall your picks will fare well without such Creativity.
MLB: Derek Law, Nick Hundley
Sacramento: Josh Osich, Jae-Gyun Hwang
Richmond: D.J. Snelten, Brandon Bednar
San Jose: Dylan Rheault, Gio Brusa
Augusta: Patrick Ruotolo, Kevin Beltre
I wish someone would tell Krukow that Nathan, who started this backspin nonsense, has retracted it, and in fact shown incontrovertibly that by increasing drag, backspin actual decreases carry. Maybe Krukow is a measure of the Giants general analytical depth.
There is no better modern argument to counter PJ’s outsized Home Run love than Ichiro Slapzuki
Johnny getting by on guts and guile today. His fastball to Ichiro was clocked at 87 mph. Well, who was it that said pitching is the art of deceiving the batter?
I expect he’s still under the effects of his ear infection. One doesn’t bounce back that quickly. I think he’s gutting it out today.
This series has been excellent pop up practice for JT Riddle
Riddle me this, riddle me that.
Kyle Freeland with a no-no going for the Rox at Coors in the 7th.
Still intact thru 8!! He’s at 116 pitches though, approaching Timmy territory
Yeah, I’d trade a purty parcel for Yelich. Ozuna would be nice too. Stanton’s contract scares me.
I was thinking about that all weekend. What would it take for the Giants to get Ozuna and Bour? Yelich is under contract thru 2021 at $7 mil per.
Yelich’s trade value alone is through the roof. He’s still 25, and under team control for the next 5 seasons at something like 5/60. Getting Bour would definitely be buying high though. I don’t think his specific skillset ages well and he’s already as “old” as Belt.
Echoes what some of us were saying last night. We had Ozuna #1 with Yelich #2.
Back when the Marlins were having problems with Ozuna in 2015 and sent him down to AAA, I badly wanted the Giants to try and get him.
He could play CF for us too, not be stuck in left!
So “Not a hanger” applies to a fastball belt high now? With 2 strikes. Cueto is not into this baseball thing in SF. Wonder if he already knows where he’s going?
Lucius Fox just grounded out. He sure looks fast. Moore is less.
Woe the inherited-runner stat this year, for all of the bullpen! 🙁
Keeps the pens era down, and respectable.
“they ALL score ….. “
Hey, Boch, make another completely meaningless change rather than let a pitcher figure something out.
Then again, game tied, Cueto had around 100 pitches, and the bullpen is going to have a 5 day vacation. Yep, send Cueto out for the 7th.
Bruce “One Batter” Bochy.
“Cueto pitched pretty well today ….” Geez, it just never stops.
“He got us into the 7th” … and other canards.
It’s amazing this isn’t another 10-2 blowout because Cueto had nothing today. Alas, Bochy pushed the envelope by sending him out there for the 7th. Didn’t Bochy see the radar gun numbers? Of course he did.
Hilarious … what does Strickland possibly have to to say to Hundley that would require him hiding with his glove. He’s hardly a mystery. Maybe telling them what’s coming would help. … God, Lou Seal’s job is tough
Shaping up as an emblematic ending to the first half
As far as pitching, yes. As far as hitting this game is as unrepresentative as it gets since all of our runs came from homers.
But still a lot of swings and misses at fastballs down the middle
Giants are 9 outs away from completing a 64-98 record over the course of post All-Star break last year to All-Star break this year. That’s a 162 game season folks.
Kyle Freeland just had a no-hitter broken up by…. Melky Cabrera.
Efrain fainted like a Belieber
I still miss the Melkman, what can I say!
The situation was handled poorly especially by Melky.
This Giants team has the lowest offensive comeback power in the NL because their .694 OPS is the league’s lowest.
Strike three called
And to Panik, too! Our best strike zone got rung up looking.
This game needs to end so I can take a nap (surprisingly I haven’t fallen asleep yet).
Somehow I was smart enough to be in zee-land while their 4 runs cavorted around the bases.
But not smart enough to sleep through the first half of this season.
I have been nodding off once or twice per game recently and miss innings at a time.
I’m an insomniac so my escape is watching bad sitcom reruns.
I survive on very little sleep. Usually wake up around 5 AM wide awake and don’t like lying in bed. So the unscheduled naps are probably good.
Sounds like you have narcolepsy! Little known is the fact that narcoleptics have fractured, unrefreshing sleep at night and nap throughout the day.
Then I have had narcolepsy for over 50 years. This nodding off is unique to recent Giants games. I sleep sound just not of long duration and wake early like I have something to do still but am a geezer.
I just joined the geezer (Medicare) club this year. It’s a club I’ve been trying to avoid joining for 65 years.
Astros pummeled Toronto today, 19-1, in Toronto to become the fifth team in the last 40 years to reach 60 wins at the break. The 1998 Yankees, 2001 Mariners, 2003 Braves and this years Dodgers team are the other 4. Only one team, the ’98 Yankees went on to win it all. I hope Houston will be #2 and not that team down south.
Hoping neither. It’s not good to have Houston’s shenanigans pay off for them. Plus the ballpark is a farce
I’m surprised Houston’s dome is retractable. The reason the Astrodome came into existence was that there was an outbreak of mosquito-born encephalitis in Houston in the early 1960s. I don’t remember for sure but I think one of their pitchers (Dick Drott?) got it, too.
You don’t want to watch outside baseball in Houston in the summer period, trust me! I loved my Dome! 🙂
No worries, the Dodgers aint winning anything. The Giants stinking and the Dodgers winning the WS — not to mention the political situation would be just yoo much to take in one year. So it will not happen (I hope)
On the other hand, if all the super crappy crap could just all be concentrated in one year, we could get it out of the way and only have up to go. Rip the band-aid off in one swift motion than keep peeling it off slowly.
Giants find an outfielder somewhere, get Bum back, take most of the remaining games against LA, and let the Rockies take the division, followed by Arizona with a WC. Dodgers go home for the winter to suck eggs. Trump impeached.
Marcell Ozuna is a good start for an outfielder.
I like it.
Oh how lovely that sounds!
Giving away my affiliations but I like that last sentence the best.
I’d much rather see good guys like Altuve and Correa get a ring instead of those punk-asses Puig and Utley.
At game time, 64 degrees and clear. Must feel like 30 degrees to the Marlins. Miami, not Phoenix, has America’s highest average temperature to go along with it’s stultifying humidity.
I can attest to this.
Miami does share one thing with Phoenix. It’s only really comfortable in December thru March.
Cain pitching out of the bullpen. If anything, this is probably a foreshadowing of moves in the future once Bumgarner gets back.
Yea! Cain in as a relief pitcher.
Let a progression proceed.
There should no intentional walks the rest of the Giants’ season, except maybe a Dodgers game
About damned time. You have to wonder what’s going on in Cain’s mind being used in mop-up mode. As to his career, he’s laughing all the way to the bank.
They should think about extending alcohol sales past the 7th inning.
Positive first half note: Giants with a winning record versus the hated Dodgers
bearclaws go good with coffee.
Now a blast please.
All-star Buster up to the bat!
Swung at ball four.
Suede Goats in 2017.
I was trying to find a rally cry lower to hurtle than mouse turds and apparently it worked.
What’s this? Real FIGHT from the Giants?
Don Mattingly challenges bother me more than anyone mostly because of his grumpy mug
Because he’s a horrible manager and a pretentious stiff
….Are you serious Buster
That’s our non-RBI man
Posey was awful. Huntley picked him up
With our luck, he got a hernia from doing so
Not-Todd Hundley having a great day! 🙂
Great time for your 1st hit and RBI.
Come on slim Pablo
Aww, good job kid.
Good job dude!
Baby Panda does good! 🙂
Remarkable … the guy wants to swing at everything, and they made a huge mistake of throwing a strike and he hung in there
Our KIDS are the ones that did it!!
There are a lot of bad bullpens.
Pitching problems (led by the loss of Jose) are why the Marlins are below .500 with that good offense!
MLB is not at a high level of play right now. If they keep ballparks smaller and balls livelier, it will only go down
And chicken and hog pens too!
That has to feel really good for that kid.
That was some day-old bearclaw, for sure.
Oops, wrong spot, meant for TO’s bad bullpen remark!
Bochy’s showing an unusual amount of patience and confidence in this guy.
Which? Gomez? Just a few PH oppos…
Maybe not the patience because he’s had such few PAs. But, he’s been PH-ing in key spots with runners onbase
So many high powered choices….
You’d figure Mac would get the call there with RISP.
Gomez a lefty
Mac is Bochy’s absolute last choice
Gomez is a switch-hitter, but yeah.
..which includes the left side!
The best side!
Mac will get a defensive inning, and that’s it.
Slapped his hands as soon as got out of the box. He knew he got his first MLB hit. Good job MG. Way to hang in there.
so are you saying he’s a slappy hitter?
Yeah, that’s the ticket…
First MLB hit tying the game equals automatic #1 Ranking in MyGuy™ I am sure.
So, not to sound like a heartless vulture, but do I still get the promotion bonus for Slater since his season-ending injury happened whil he was in the major leagues?
I just figured his MyGuyLine™
Slater AAA/137 in 2016 => now 109+40% for 153 adjusted wRC+ for a 12% increase.
He will be in the top 10 I think but what hurts you is he had such a high wRC+ last year.
Hwang’s was a homer to win a game!
The MyGuyCommittee™ has a short memory and might not favor that interpretation.
Arroyo had the first come from behind in the 9th hit in umpty games, not his first MLB hit, but another memorable job by a rookie. And another game winner later on, too.
Yes it was, and I saw it in person! 🙂
Congrats Gomez now get 1999 more for the Giants.
Gotta say, despite all the disappointment, Nick Hundley has been a damn fine pickup this year.
Think Nick will be the backup next year too?
I’m sure they’ll try to sign him, but maybe he’ll prefer to go elsewhere. Fed-Ex has done a good job in Sac this year, too.
I was really happy when they signed Hundley, and he’s performed as expected. I mean, I was also excited about Ruggiano as a platoon guy…but Hundley was a good signing. He makes as much as Aaron Hill this year!
LOL, Krukow just said Gillaspie stepped out of the box and “made his adjustments.”
I was discussing Conor’s “adjustments” with Mr. L last night.
Him: Well, yeah. Sometimes you’ve gotta make sure they’re still there.
MadBum makes “equipment adjustments” quite often too.
He has a handle on the situation.
I’m amazed that we put up the fight to tie it up. With our luck we’ve just played well enough to lose in the 9th.
They’re safe until the 10th.
Cain almost had the opportunity for his first W in his hopefully new career as a relief pitcher.
I haven’t seen a whole lot of Dyson but I’d rather see him than melancon
Less drama and way better stuff.
Yeah, there won’t be any Rosenthal articles about Dyson and I don’t trust Melancon as a “control” reliever. Dyson’s got mph on his pitches and they move.
I like anyone who gets that pest Dee Gordon out.
Belt one outta here, Brandon
Uncharacteristic day for Panik. Only Giant who took the collar and with two K’s.
If Brownie jinxed Dyson, I won’t easily forgive
You happy now?
Hell no. I’m rooting for a shipwrecked team of bumbling whiffers
I’ll bet channelclemente will tell me I’m wrong, but…
The shift kills us
Giants’ future CF, Bryan Reynolds, made an appearance in the Futures games. He drew a walk.
That’s as exciting as a firework that fizzled
Beats flailing helplessly at a slider for strike 3.
This is part of the box score for today’s River Cats game. They get their asses kicked, but that’s not the point. The point is that I don’t know who these pitchers are. The starter, Jose Flores, is a journeyman minor leaguer that the Giants promoted from Richmond last week. But the rest of the relievers? I’ve never heard of any of them. And I’m a PARTIAL SEASON TICKET HOLDER. OK, I haven’t been to a game in three weeks due to vacation, but…none of them?! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f7a5e7a18663db8fe3b9238f74d770106952807d254a7129406c220aa2926b79.png
Nice ERA for LaMarche.
Yeah, maybe he and Ballester are in Witness Protection and those aren’t their real names.
Now I understand why after the Heston trade it took forever to reveal the PTBNL!
Speaking of Tyler Herb, he was the winning pitcher for Richmond last night.
on a Richmond note, My Guy Hinojosa has been awesome! Three more hits today in a losing effort and average up to .308. Bring him up to the Big Top!!!
He may be the Giants’ SS in a couple weeks. Nick Cafardo says the Giants are trading Crawford.
HA! Maybe they’ll package the Brandon’s for a couple of Joe’s.
No one loves trades like my cuz…no one
They look very forgettable.
They played a doubleheader in triple-digit heat yesterday. I’m gonna say all the real pitchers had heat stroke and they got these guys via a sign-up table at Arden Fair Mall this morning.
When all the minor league teams stink, it’s an indication that the overall strength of the pitching in the organization is not good. They’re just not that good at getting outs.
What’s really weird is that the River Cats pitchers struck out 12 in 8 innings to Tacoma’s 6 in 9.
That Flores guy had 10 Ks in his first Sacramento start last week.
Awesome job by Dyson today.
Bcraw, MAC, Hundley. I got a good feeling this inning
Jinxed ’em good.
Are you married to Mel Kiper?
Are you questioning my sexual orientation?
Just questioning your prediction heritage
Show Bochy, Mac
Maybe he’ll get another chance in the 13th inning. This is just the perfect end to the first half, isn’t it?–Extra innings, just what they all wanted.
Why not they have 5 days to rest .
My defeatist attitude has us losing in brutal fashion
I absolve you, Matthew. After all, being 21 games under .500 tends to sour one.
My ebullient, upbeat personality sees it as being one step closer to being able to watch a great player in the future.
So, which one of us is Felix and which one is Oscar?
I’m poking Lefty
I could say something about that phrasing, Matthew, but it would be wrong of me.
Now that I reread that…..
Bochy wants to get home to San Diego. As he said recently, “Enough is enough.”
Well, obviously not quite enough.
By then Belt could be pitching. Though I’d bet they’ll send out Blach, first.
I guess Crawford’s had enough, too.
It has to hurt just a LITTLE more. A little pain is never enough.
is that enough, now?
No. Let’s load the bases with none out and then strike out looking 3 straight times
Stanton probably piled on enough for me just now. I don’t need your idea!
Can’t seem to find a way to win so let’s just lose. Good resolution
Ok, I think the MO is a passed ball
Oops…I missed it by that much
An 0-2 hanging slider by Kontos. : (
What a shocker.
Krukow blames the weather
Ah, but YOU said KONTOS’ name, Matthew so I accuse you of this.
Before you ‘cuse me, take a look at yourself
Nah, it was backspin.
Holy F. AJ Friggin Ellis. That’s a fitting ending.
Ok, krukow, f you too with that apologist crap. The weather etc. Kiss my ass
Why should Bochy be stunned? It’s Kontos FCOL! 🙁
Why not blame the wrinkle on his jersey for that HR? The weather?!?!
See you later Kontos
You may be right about that, Brownie.
But… he’s so consistent.
Let’s leave Kontos in just a little longer.
It’s the weather folks
KONTOS. YOU. SUCK.
Ah but look at the bright side, Doc. He didn’t let in any inherited runners. Aren’t I a ray of sunshine?
she’s mad right now. if that were the case, she’d go ballistic
Well, truth be told, I’m a tad peeved, too.
He kind of inherited one from Crawford’s error, but the hanging sliders are allllll him.
He’s mediocre, as are too many of the Giants. The mediocres are battling the sucks for control of the team.
You punch hard, TO, but, as usual, I think there’s great accuracy to your post.
7 HRs given up by a middle reliever in early July is beyond mediocre. I remember a couple years ago Romo gave up 9 for the whole year, and we thought that was terrible.
He is on the executive committee of the Suck Board
Lol Yelich. Now that’s on the weather
Nice job, Kelby.
Kelby hit a triple?!? That’s some news. Congrats Kelbster on the XBH!
CF lost it in the sun.
Kelby did run really fast, though.
Triple in the box score ! 🙂
Might be the furthest he’s hit one this year.
Tragicomedy at the ballpark.
Wild hair reference, take a shot.
Not a 100 loss team. They’re just not. As Crawnik has calculated, they are more like a 98 loss team over a full season’s 162.
#2 overall draft pick worthy stuff!
They might be. They might
Even the Phillies have more fight than this team. Giants let one bad loss linger too long and it turns into consecutive losses and sweeps. Might end up with the #1 pick
They are just not good. It was not 1 bad loss lingering to long , it is just a bad bad team, a terrible team for the payroll.
64-98 over the last 162, 101 loss pace this season. The evidence isn’t in your favor.
If they lose 99, I win though. I’m ready to put my money where my fingertips are.
Arithmetically, they’re on pace to win 62.71 games. That rounds to 63 as in 63-99. However, I’ll think they’ll only lose 95 with Bum’s return. Then again, we have zero idea how sound that shoulder really is so what do I know?
They put up an 8 spot and lose. I’m afraid they’ll forget to hit like this with 4 days off.
This whole “forget the first half” is weak sauce.
Remember the first half every fucking day…
and it’s just not the 2017 first half but an ENTIRE year of crappy baseball since last ASG — this really is one complicated mess which i believe will take someone smarter and more able than Evans to fix. I would not be sad to see Bochy retire at the end of the season and would be thrilled to see the Gs give Ron Wootus a run
Got that first half over – the AS break is a siesta in the heat, it’s time for the trade market to heat up. What will Miami do? Will the wrecking ball swing? Will it swing it Detroit? Will the Giants FO sit on their hands and declare “it’s a one-off”? What will all the contendahs do? Who is in it to win it by sacrificing young pieces on the trade altar?
I need some of your Rosterbation Happy Drugs. It’s just not exciting enough to me
Congrularuons to the Giants for figuring out 57 different ways to lose a game before the break. Breaking the old record of 56 ways by the 1962 Mets.
Stengel or Bochy?
Well, two HOF’ers. I don’t think this season necessarily spells rhe end for Bochy but wondering if he might simply say enough is enough.
I was just discussing with Beauty as we prepped the Rib aeye’s for the BBQ:
If you’re the Bochy’s, over the break…do you not sit on your deck with a bottle of wine and seriously analyze if you want to keep going?
He has health concerns. He has a shitty team. He has a rough near future. He has loads of money….don’t you at least think about it?
Agree. You know darn well his wife is rhinking about it.
He’d never quit mid-season, but post ASB would be a good time to announce this is his last year. Don’t the Giants have an annual off-day party at Bochy’s house in Poway every year? Seems that would be scheduled for Thursday evening this week. A good time to tell the team that this is his swan song?
In fairness to this lousy team, the 1962 half came after game 82.
Cueto making sure no one will trade for him
I know. A month ago I thought the value was with Cueto and Nunez but with four years of big money hanging over Cueto and Nunez nagging injuries the only assets the Giants might be willing to part with that could eturn some value is dwindling. Span and Pence?
It’s a perfect storm. Cueto pitching poorly. Nunez injured. Every prospect worth mentioning injured other than Shaw and Beede. It really is amazing.
Sports Center was talking Nunez as a prospect this AM.
Besides his declining performance, Pence has two other dark clouds that diminish his trade value: Injury proneness and the fact that he’ll be 35 next year. As others have said, and I agree, the Giants really don’t have too many valuable trade pieces and the ones they do have are the franchise and you can’t trade them. They’re in trouble for a good many years to come.
Tend to as agree. I still like the core but they need to acquire a hammer in the middle of their line up and they don’t have the pieces to get that type of prospect.
If the losing continues, Posey may welcome a trade. And Bumgarner should be traded, assuming the goal is to try to once again reach the summit.
wo, Hotlanta! They’ll be wanting some big time players to really go for it someday. Not this winter but maybe the winter after.
I usually agree with you but this time I can’t. I believe that win or lose, you can’t trade your core guys and let the fans watch the Phillies. Also, as you know, there’s no guarantee that core guys can fetch prospects that actually make it in MLB. If Bum could fetch us a whole outfield it might be worth it but those outfielders would have to have a WAR above 1.5 each to be worth a Bum. I don’t think it’s possible. The catcher position on every team is TOO “core”. I wouldn’t trade Posey at all.
He shouldn’t have pitched today. In his last inning he was hitting 87 mph on his FB and this is a guy that has no trouble hitting 95. I wouldn’t make too much of today but he shouldn’t have been out there.
He should have been taken out after the 5th or 6th. No way he’d recovered from his illness.
Once Bochy checked out the radar (which was probably the 1st inning) he should have been concerned that Cueto took a 5 mph haircut on his FB … which got worse. Managers can be forgiven for overlooking small things but that’s a LARGE thing. At the very least, his pitch count limit should have been 80, tops.
The entire pitching staff has four days off, if we don’t win we’re swept at home, and Bochy sends an aching Cueto to the mound. Then leaves him in for the seventh, when we’re tied and in position to get a much needed win. I think he’s losing touch. I really do.
He no longer hits 95. FB velocity the last two yrs been around 91-92.
I follow his radar numbers and 92 is ambient and 94-95 is “hump-up”. Today he went from 90 in inning 1 to 87 in inning 5. These are basic numbers to watch during a game but we were asleep at the switch. He had no control AND no velocity. Sending him out for the 7th was cruelty.
Ugggh. Nothing will ruin July more for me other than continued heat waves or thermonuclear war.
You should be glad you’re not down here in AZ, Foots. The “heat wave” here lasts for 6 months.
It’s pretty hot here. Real heat sensation must be about 105. And we don’t have A/C so indoor temps 85-88.
Has anyone ever wondered whether the ambient cold/windy conditions in SF are more conducive to pitcher’s performance and/or injury problems? SF summer nights are mid-Autumn in most places.
I skipped that last inning to continue reading Volume III of Les Misérables. Which is less miserable than this team.
A tiny bit off subject but after that first fly ball to Yelich I think there are managers out there that would have had Osuna and Yelich trade places. I’m sure Mattingly is a good players manager but I still question his in game managing.
Giants are on pace to be 50 games out of first place by the end of the season
Cubs are on pace to finish below .500 and miss the playoffs.
Nice game, Jon Lester! 12 runs in the first inning, and can’t even get out of the inning! Cubs lose! Cubs lose!
Soak it in Cubs breath!
Fleming has it made. He gets to broadcast Fulmer v Kluber instead of today’s travesty.
Who will lead the Giants in SLG% and OPS this year, Posey had a huge lead in both categories , but after todays game, Posey’s SLG% is .498 and Belt’s is .470, and Posey’s OPS is.904 and Belt’s OPS is .819 . I am 100% sure Belt will have a higher SLG% he hits more Extra base hits, and will probably finish around a .270 average, the OPS race will be close, Belt walks more and has more Power but Posey’s average is .81 points higher after todays game, but Posey’s average has dropped .32 points in the last 3 weeks, if that continues Belt will have a higher OPS .
Belt thrives in low and medium leverage situations, so maybe he’ll make killing in the 2nd half in meaningless games and finish with 30 HRs and 80 RBIs and maybe up to .270 avg. like you said. That would be fitting and that would be something.
What does Posey thrive in , because it does no not look like he likes RBI situations ?
He thrives in being the best catcher in MLB. Hard for him to carry the offense while carrying the catching gear.
Can’t hit the ball if you can’t hit the books. Well, at least in HS and college that’s true.
Catcher must be a weak position this year, I predict his final numbers will be about .300, 14 HRs, and 57 RBI .
I love hearing concrete predictions. I copied and pasted that to check later. Must be my MyGuyThing™ about people going on record and being held accountable.
I’ve gotten into a little trouble around here for holding people accountable. Some don’t like it!
Good, his 2nd half in 2013 were .244, 2 HRs, and 16 RBI, after a .325, 13 HRs, and 56 RBI 1st half . this years 1st half .324, 10 HRs, 35 RBI, so I am expecting about a .265 average with 4 HRs, and 22 RBI, so lots better than 2013 .
Good to see numbers.
Maybe Bochy noticed that drop off too and that is why he treats him to so many days off? It will be interesting to see how BP28 does this year then.
I know you’re just anti-Belt in general, but that’s a cheap shot. By definition, ALL of Belt’s (and everyone’s) ABs will be in “low leverage situations” for the rest of the season. He already has 16 HRs. If he finishes with 28 or 30, it’s not fair to dismiss that because his team sucks.
It’s also worth pointing out that he’s been a key contributor in good years, too. In 2012, he had an excellent second half after he finally became an everyday player. In 2014, despite missing most of the regular season with a broken thumb and a concussion, he had a good postseason and hit the home run that arguably turned the NLDS (and the whole October run). In 2016, when they did actually make the playoffs, he was an All-Star and had over 80 RBIs.
If you don’t like things about his game (and you consistently haven’t all along), fair enough. I can’t stand the sight of George Kontos, so I get it. But it’s not a fair criticism to say Belt never contributes in important situations. It’s just not.
That’s my cheap shot of the night and I can back the leverage bit with some help from fangraphs. He’s not my guy.
Wow, so what do they say about Posey’s average with RISP and his average with RISP with 2 outs, I am curious .
Deplorable things. But all he has to do is flash his MVP badge.
I agreed with your earlier contention that Posey is hitting a soft .324. How can a guy hitting a HUNDRED points less than him lead the team in RBI (Crawford)? Belt is 74 points lower and tied for that team lead. Posey’s had a spate of games lately where he’s come up with bases full of runners and his RBI was a groundout or a sac fly. He’s NINE RBI behind the team lead. Eric Ritz provided a lot of sabermetrics citing that Posey wasn’t coming up enough in potential RBI situations but my eye test tells me that Posey with 2 or 3 runners on base is virtually never hitting an XBH. Since I’m a statistician I know that stats lie but there’s a reason why baseball-reference.com cites RBI, OPS, BA, and OBP as the MAIN stats. I distrust all these arcane wrc+ types of metrics with “ballpark adjustment” terms. How do they DO that “adjustment”? You should see the formulae. They’re about as arcane as the metrics.
wRC+ is really just to compare slash lines across league and park and era. It doesn’t carry any kind of advantage when comparing situational stats. Posey is not doing well in RISP situations this year, but I’ve never stated it was due to lack of opportunities. Merely stated that Crawford has had the MOST opportunities for the easiest RBI. Posey is a guy who – over his career – has hit .310/.405/.479 with RISP, and this year is doing badly in those same situations. He’s not doing anything differently, players just can’t control when a ball falls in and when it doesn’t. His approach doesn’t change in any way that anybody has pointed out, they just aren’t falling in, and it’s frustrating as hell. But anybody thinking he suddenly changed something that made him less clutch, and thinking Crawford has a magic clutch gene, just doesn’t know how fickle this game is.
It’s true that Posey doesn’t strike out much but, especially lately, he’s been getting sac flies in bases loaded or men on second/third situations. He’s not getting hits. It’s also true that you can’t force struck balls to fall in. I admit that bad luck is part of his situation this year but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating. Belt and Crawford, however, are hitting doubles or homers with at least one guy on most of the time. Thus, I’d say Posey’s striking the ball but he just isn’t hitting liners or majestic HR’s when men are on base.
There’s a lot of space between “the most clutch hitter in baseball” and “never had a clutch hit in his life.” I don’t need Fangraphs. I’ve watched him since the beginning, and I’ve seen plenty of important clutch hits. Just asking you to be fair.
There’s been a lot of anti-Craw lately, too, yet he and Belt lead the team in RBI. I don’t want to trade Crawford or Belt. They’re a proven part of a core infield group that includes Panik. This is what you build franchises around, not trade away. For God’s sake if we trade away our infield then we’ll have no IF or OF and trend toward the 1962 Mets.
You are correct
Crawford and Posey are 30, and Belt is 29. Their clocks are ticking. By the time young talent (assuming they acquire some) is ready, they’ll likely be past their primes.
But that’s the very reason why we have time to evaluate our young infield talent. Posey and Belt have a few “prime” years left. So let them remain part of our core and try to identify/develop farm system infielder prospects over the next few years.
All of the team’s ABs have been in low leverage situations this season.
with plenty more to come – as if leverage based on position in the standings is something that gets measured.
If a team can’t win with 8 runs, when can they. Right now, offense isn’t the big problem.
The problem switches day to day. One day it’s pitching. Another day the pitching is so-so and they go down meek as kittens offensively and lose 4-1. It’s really either/or.
smoking chicken halves on the BBQ over coals and wood ships in aluminum foil. Learned it from one of My Gals on America’sTest Kitchen. Hope it gets up to temp and good an smoky before it gets too late. Drinking a can of Saranac pale ale from a can. Sometimes you got to drink the cheap stuff to appreciate the good stuff.
I think the Giants need going into the second half are beat writers, syndicated columnists, talking heads, major newspaper writers, Rosenthal types, to write nasty scathing lies and false tales everyday and take the rumor back stabbing smut right to the edge. They won’t do it of course because of the success Rosenthal had. But that’s the only thing that’s ever got this team to spark this season. Damn shame.
Paging Kawakami and Ratto and not KNBR and most of the CSN Bay Area staff, correct?
Be nice if Ratto and Kawakami would do that.
Kawakami hardly ever writes about Baseball, and Ratto is just sad .
When the Raiders were really bad Kawakami wrote some real nasty stuff about Davis and the Raiders. He even got into with Herrera in the press room. It was physical.
He writes about Warriors, Raiders and 49ers, only writes about the A’s and Giants , if it is a Stadium thing are a ownership piece .
It’ll be a good 3-4 days without Giants baseball to break hearts and stress most of us out.
C’mon. There’s no stress. What are they going to do, stunningly not make the playoffs?
Are you new here? Have you read the in game comments?
Some of these posters need to smell the roses , the seasons been lost for months, need to worry about what the FO does about it, and the core is not as good as some thought they were .
I can’t smell any roses. But I do smell a sewer pond.
Fertilizer… think positive.
You’re right. There’s zero stress. I don’t even care enough to wish bad things for teams I hate. I’m enjoying stories like the Milwaukee Brewers and the Minnesota Twins and hoping for good things for the Astros.
It is getting a little obnoxious with the Astros though. There are bludgeoning the opposition almost nightly and are in that semi-dangerous position where they are at risk of coasting and not being able to have the playoff edge when the time comes. Crazy enough, the Dodgers finished the first half a game up on them, IIRC.
…and the Indians.
I’m betting this joint still goes Full Angst Battle Ground
We are on red alert.
Why ? the thing that I will ne looking at is how Shaw is doing, and if he is called up, and if the beat writers and the bay area media will hold the Giants brass and players and coaches accountable .
0-4 today 2 K’s. Hitting .299, same as that other hot prospect Federowicz.
One bad game and he is done, should Posey be DFA’d he is 5 for his last 31, and besides a 10 game power surge , he is hitting a soft .324 .
One bad game and you’re giving up on him?
No, you comparing him to a journey man Catcher 10 years his senior did, batting average means crap to me, SLG% and RBI is what I care about, The Giants blew it on Duvall, hopefully they do not do the same with Shaw .
Stupid analogy btw.
Let’s see if you and the rest of us actually stay calm and friendly until Friday….
I feel pretty good tonight. Having to attend a service and missing the game today must of been the trick.
I expect Giancarlo to win the HR Derby. It is the least he could do after his practice sessions pre and in game at AT&T
And on a side note, Tritip, grilled onions, grilled bread and an arugula, spinach and tomato salad was a winner. The Zin was average, but you’ve got to try it to know.
Dodgers are either going to never lose again or have such a second half meltdown it will put the Giants meltdown of last season to shame. Wouldn’t bet on the latter, but one can always hope for that.
Good sentiments, Joe, but the Dodgers are going to win the Division so your hopes and dreams will have to work around an early playoff loss.
Since the Rox and Snakes are the probable WC teams, and they always flop against the Bums, I’m hoping the Nats finally get their postseason game in gear and avenge last year’s NLDS loss!
I think that Nats are definitely the most solid team, top to bottom, in this year’s NL. The Dodgers have, by far, the more sensational W-L line but there’s something about them I just don’t believe in. Maybe it’s just TOO many guys having career years.
Kontos. I’ve had more than enough, thank you very much. An 0-2 cookie to A.J. Ellis, who I thought had retired, and were down two in the 11th. Oh here, Stanton: one for you, too. Disgusting.
Said this below, but it bears repeating. Kontos has given up seven (7) HRs in a little over half a season. That is seriously damn horrible. I don’t want to hear about his ERA. He gave up 2 HRs and got charged with 1 ER because of Crawford’s error to lead off the inning. That’s a joke. Maybe you don’t charge him for the runner that the error put on, but two HRs are two HRs.
Kontos has always been a mediocre pitcher who hangs way too many sliders. It is long past time to move on from him to someone younger and cheaper. It couldn’t possibly be worse.
He and Moore should be gone on the same bus. They should not be on the post all star roster. Period.
Ryan’s MyGuy Hinojosa is on fire. .315 for June, now .484 for July. (.774 slg!)
Put him in LF !
This team is so boring
Lousy teams always are. The Giants are hitting like kittens when they lose 3-1 or 4-1 and then hit like beasts and lose 10-8. Simple truth: The Giants are bad at BOTH hitting and pitching. They take turns sucking. With Bum missing half a season, Nunez tweaked again, and Slater done for the year, it seems like we’re under a dark cloud but it doesn’t make them any more watchable.
But think of the draft picks.
Reality is that draft picks, more often than not, do not work out. Meantime, I think the joy of the next few years will lie mostly in watching individual players. I think this team is going to suck, except for their infield, for many years to come.
So, with Cain pitching in relief today, was Bochy tipping his hand on the second half rotation?
I dunno but he was definitely flipping the bird to Cain as regards his rotation position. We also have to replace Moore but getting two competent starters at this point in the season with almost no viable trade pieces is an impossibility. So is it Stratton or bust … for example? Looks like it.
I can’t figure Cueto going out for the 7th after he’d shown no interest all day long in pitching to Stanton. Perfect culmination to a miserable first half.
Strike that. He did challenge him when he hit the 440 ft HR. My bad.
That HR almost killed 20 people in the kale garden bar!
It did, indeed. Stanton is a total beast. I don’t know who’s getting him not to crush the ball but it ain’t us.
Bochy already said Blach isn’t coming out of the rotation when Bum returns, so Cain gets the short straw. Although I suspect Cain might be in tandem with Moore, who will be on a shorter leash!
Ever use the MLB.com for statistical analysis? It feels like a classic exercise. Anyhow, we were skirting the tangents of RBI efficiency. This is a simple means of judging RBI efficiency. Basically, take the RBIs collected with runners on base and divide by ABs + BB to determine a guy’s efficiency (far right column) at knocking runners in other than himself.
— …. Tot.RBIs … RBI w/Runnerson…ABs+BB….RBIefff
This is pretty interesting. Thanks for the info!
Still a lot of factors this doesn’t capture: What base the runners are on, how many baserunners on during each attempt, and the actual quality of the baserunner…i.e. it’s a lot harder to hit in Posey from 2nd than anyone else, etc.
That’s true, it doesn’t take into account the intentional walks either..
It’s still a pretty neat stat regardless, and captures our guys’ efficiencies with RISP or lack thereof
its not perfect. strives for simplicity. sac flies rewarded. ability to knock in guys from all bases rewarded.
Since it doesn’t take into account the total number of opportunities, it’s a pretty worthless measurement.
ABs+BB is the total number of opportunities
I’m talking about the number of runners on base.
PAs-IBB is the total number of opportunities. Sacrifice flys are not considered AB’s. Baseball reference gives you all under splits
I don’t think I can get that from MLB.com. But you could infer that the average number of runners on base per runners on situation is the same for everybody or that variance is minimal. Then again, maybe there is distinct variance for this set of players.
I don’t think you can infer that.
Now I’m curious.
Not counting today:
Posey…317 PAs, 144 (45%) with men on and 84 (26%) with RISP;
Belt…370 PAs, 152 (41%) with men on and 86 (23%) with RISP;
Crawford…292 PAs, 142 (49%) with men on and 92 (32%) with RISP;
Pence…274 PAs, 128 (47%) with men on and 68 (25%) with RISP;
Span…271 PAs, 80 (30%) with men on, 45 (17%) with RISP;
Panik…334 PAs, 125 (37%) with men on, 75 (22%) with RISP;
Nice. Makes sense to see that ratio for Crawford. Good supplement.
Crawford has hit behind the highest on base guys all season, in the spot where they are most likely to be in a more ideal RBI spot. On most teams the ideal RBI spot is 4th. On a team that “moves the line along” the 5th or 6th spot is more ideal as the higher OBP guys have gotten a chance to get on base, and advance bases.
There’s always some amount of context behind all comparison statistics. Overall RBIs isn’t fair for obvious reasons. Not even batting average is safe. Some hitters get served more cookies than others.
If you are looking at ” guy’s efficiency (far right column) at knocking runners in other than himself.”, then I think your numbers are off. I do not see a column where the RBINotEqualBattersName is.
BB9 has only driven in 28 runners not name Belt(44-16). That give Belt a .184 efficiency.
That is similar for Buster, he has 10 home runs, which means he drove in 25 runners not named Buster. His efficiency is .189 or higher than Belts.
I believe if you want to see the efficiency of driving in RunnersOnBase, then your second column should be RBI’s-HR’s.
baseball reference will give you splits PA and RBIS
RISP = PA/AB/HR/RBI
Buster = 85/64/1/23 = (23-1)/85 = .258
Belt = 86/67/2/29 = (29-2)/86 = .296
Crawford= 94/80/4/39 = (39-4)/94 = .372
MenOn = PA/AB/HR/RBI
Buster = 145/118/2/27 = (27-2)/145 = .172
Belt = 154/127/2/30 = (30-2)/154 = .168
Crawford = 149/133/5/42 = (42-5)/149 = .248
This is using PA as all sacrifices walks and hit by pitches are included. It is not known whether walks were intentional, unitentalIntentional, a unintentional. You could take PA-Walks or PA – IBB to get a more refined number of plate appearances in which they may have had an opportunity to swing.
Coffee always helps, now I get this. Thanks for preparing it for us.
no one cares, the team sucks
This data, and the set just below from the Oracle are pretty interesting. Buster has had a very odd season, RBI wise. 2hole’s is probably good too, but I just woke up, and there’s a lot more thinking in his set.
Baseball Prospectus has their Top 50 prospects at the mid-season. Yep, they have Moncada at the top as well. Funny that the Dodgers have Verdugo and Alvarez side by side at 27/28, as they both played for the World in the futures game today – they could form a potent trade package for you name him. Should be interesting to see if they pull trigger for perhaps JD Martinez & Justin Wilson or aim for controllable starter. Brinson must be off limits for Milwaukee. Whatever Johnny Cueto can be traded for, he’s not on this list.
With as well as they’re doing, it would be foolish to deal to top prospects for a couple of months of Martinez.
that lefty reliever Wilson is probably a pretty pricey guy. Remember when Giants traded Wheeler for the best bat rental available?
It didn’t work out well and they weren’t on a pace to win 100 plus games. The Dodgers don’t need Martinez.
That’s what I’d think, but they seem be pretty hard up for RHH in outfield.
Current team ERA notwithstanding, they need another horse starter for the postseason. That’s been their problem for the last four years, and track records suggest that some of their starters, non-Kershaw category, are not going to sustain their performances all season long. Bummer for them about Urias–he was part of the master plan for October.
The Dodgers aren’t “pretty hard up” for anything.
you did notice that not ONE player had the words “SF Giants” next to his name right?
and people on this blog think the system is ok, delusional
Who is going around here talking about how good this Giants system is? At maximum, people are trying to look for bright spots. Your “people on this blog” posts are the worst straw men.
Well, who’s gonna tell Efrain how smart he is if he doesn’t do it himself?
High leverage Slugging% (pretty small sample sizes)
Pence (37 PA) .500
Panik (31) .360
Posey (39) .355
Crawford (31) .310
Belt (34) .296
Span (24) .292
Nunez (25) .217
Who decides what is high leverage and what is not high leverage, I would have to know the formula to care about this stat .
Google “Leverage Index”, lots of good information on base outs situations and win probabilities.
Pence .500 tells me it is wrong, 37 PA tells me it is wrong, the at bat that decided the game could be in the 1st inning, so late game at bats are not the only high leverage at bats in my book .
the leverage you’re thinking about undoes everything you believe about “clutch”. Which at bat was the most important of a game can only be determined after the fact. Everything you’ve said up until this point says you seem to think the opposite. Leverage Index takes historical records of every game and determines run outcomes for each situation, based on how likely/unlikely a win is under each at bat and the score. Clutch implies that a hitter knows which at bat is his most important at the time of the at bat, which he can’t ever do. Clutch implies that a player performs when the spotlight is brightest. But if you think the deciding at bat can come in the first (which is can), then that would mean the “most clutch” player has to treat every at bat as if it was the most important…which means that the idea of clutch players stepping up under pressure is a lie, since every at bat is potentially clutch.
You think RBI are luck and I do not, so I think when a hitter has an at bat with a chance for multiple RBI in a close game any time during that game it is a high leverage at bat, a chance to break a game open .
If you don’t think they are comprised of a LOT of luck, then you think that a lot of hitters can change things to make sure they get a hit in a certain at bat. Getting a hit in any situation is hard, but there’s no magic behind getting a hit with RISP and bases empty. Posey has spent a career hitting incredibly well with RISP, and the fact that you think he’s still able to hit in low pressure situations, yet lost his ability to be “clutch” is hilariously misguided. It’s looking at a tiny sample and thinking it means anything. A few weeks ago he collected several RBI in a short span. Did he suddenly get good at hitting in the clutch, and then re-forget it? Nope. They just fell in at the right time. Today he took a bad swing at ball 4 on a 3-0 pitch. He’s only put 19 balls in play from a 3-0 count on his entire career! Was he “pressing” for RBI? Or, is he a very gifted hitter who always has the green light in those counts because of his history of success, and he thought the pitch was better than it turned out to be? You still think players have great control over the outcomes of their situations, and they don’t. They can make good choices to maximize their chances, but the game usually doesn’t care about the best contact on the best count during the best run scoring situation.
There is no such thing for any hitter over time. It’s long ago been proven.
You need to post a list of High Leverage Gak Jobs. With this team’s record, they must all be excelling at that
Plenty of Gakking in the outfield and on the pitcher’s mound, too. Can’t blame it ALL on the hitters.
Oh, I’m aligned with you on that…the Gak Index is an inclusive zone
This slumber party looks as pathetic as our team. Isn’t this supposed to be a popular event or something? https://twitter.com/SFGiants/status/884299015877124098
Easy now. My 5 year old and 3 year old grandsons are there. They can’t distinguish yet what a crap season means or the turmoil and screaming in the front office, or the anguish this manure of a current club is. It doesn’t mean squat to them. They’re in the big show right now, in spite of the horrendous stank mess this team is in. But yeah, you’d think it’d should be bumper to bumper tents out there.
Right, what I’m saying is not that the people who went to the slumber party are pathetic, but that it looks so… empty.
Ha. I’ll find out just why it’s so empty. It’s one thing for adult aged fans to back off, but when the kids, little leaguers, and all other kids back off, then you know we got real problems.
Probably because the Giants were charging several hundred dollars for the privilege of camping on the outfield grass…
The slim attendance of the “slumber party” is probably more indicative of the 2017 Giants sucky performance than ticket sales.
It looks way empty for such a promotion. How does this compare with past seasons?
do they clean the field of spit and tobacco juice b4 the tents are layed down
Don’t forget seagull poop.
Crawnik, if you don’t mind me asking, how much did it cost your family to go camping?
How can they sleep with the lights on?
good question lolol
I keep telling you, need to believe
Also: I’m not even sure Kershaw would be voted the MVP on his own team (Bellinger), let alone the whole NL. I just read an article with ASB award predictions. It said that Harper and Goldschmidt are the leading MVP contenders with Scherzer the leader for Cy (and Kershaw a close second, of course).
Kershaw’s obviously incredibly valuable to the Dodgers, but his problem is (a) he’s been good for years, so he gets taken for granted and (b) the Dodgers did quite well without him last year.
In any case, I’m generally against pitchers winning the MVP. Only if there’s clearly no deserving position player, I’d say. There are plenty so far this year.
It’s silly to talk about MVPs at the All Star Break. The second half rarely plays out the same as the first for individual performances. My pick: Ryan Zimmerman, for first half NL MVP.
On his own team, I don’t think anyone could even argue he’s more valuable than Harper, Rendon or Murphy. At his position there is Goldschmidt, Votto, Bellinger…I just don’t see Zimmerman anywhere close to MVP.
More “Comeback Player of the Year”, huh, Eric? I’m with you
Definitely a great contender for Comeback Player of the Year. Though Eric Thames sure is a nice story…
People do, though. Kind of an All-Star break tradition.
Yes– second half run gives us the pennant
Wrong. Kershaw is the straw the stirs the Dodgers, even Dodger fans will tell you that. Sure Bellinger is having a great season, but what Kershaw is doing, leading a team without what is considered on paper a top 5 staff and the team on pace to win over 100 games is incredible.
Goldy is having a great year but I don’t see the Snakes keep winning in the 2nd half at the same rate. They just dropped 5 of the last 6 in case you have not noticed. more losing by the Dbacks will hurt his momentum.
cool pitcher but what does it have to do with this season? It’s one of the best hitters in baseabll hitting a HR off one of the best pitchers in baseball.
Newsflash, it’s been known to happen.
It happened THIS season!
sure, but HR or no HR, I still stand by what I stated.
I’m sure in 2014 when Kershaw won MVP+CY he gave up a few HR.
Scherzer this year, numbers too similar, Max edges him out in innings/start, HR allowed, runs allowed, etc.
if you notice I said NL “MVP” not CY.
Sure Scherzer is doing well. Yet the the Nationals go as far as Harper takes them. He is the star of that show and an MVP candidate himself.
But what Kershaw means to the Dodgers and how well they are playing, he is the guy that means the most to that team. He is an NL MVP candidate, and he has won the award before.
Scherzer could win the CY while Kershaw will be high up on MVP votes.
Fun and thorough minor-league round-up piece. It includes video of Richmond players watching teammate Gomez’s first major league hit while on the team bus.
Here is something that makes no sense.
“Who are the best players in Major League Baseball right now?
To determine this, ESPN formed a panel of MLB writers, analysts, contributors and Insiders to rank the top 100, which we counted down from No. 100 to No. 1, 20 players per day, this week.”
Posey 19 was 17 in 2016
Bumgarner 25 was 11 in 2016
Crawford 63 was 78 in 2016
Cueto made the list at #53 as well.
Those ranks seem fairly accurate to me. Given Posey’s age and declining production at the plate, 19 seems about right, Bumgarner at 25 is understandable considering he’s been sidelined since early May, BCraw at 63 is pretty generous considering his struggles at the plate this season.
Melancon hasn’t been a top 100 player this season, and Belt hasn’t put up the numbers yet to be placed in the upper-echelon of first basemen (Goldschmidt, Votto, Cabrera, Rizzo, Freeman, Hosmer, Abreu) so I get why he places outside the top 100.
Oops I missed Cueto and maybe I am going Cueto blind (an affliction just made up).
Perhaps I am misinterpreting the rankings as I thought the rankings reflected a current ranking.
With that in mind I could not see how MadBum could be rated so high hardly having played and in any case could not see how Crawford could have risen 15 spots from 2016 to 2017.
Seems somewhat arbitrary then for the Giants players ommitted and maybe more reputation than current performance based.
It is hard to argue that statistically that any Giant in 2017 except Posey has good statistics
I don’t think there’s been a whole lot to say that Hosmer is a better player than Belt. I think Hosmer is one of the most overrated guys in MLB.
But a big part of the Royals turnaround this season, their Trophy 2 years ago, and pennant year before. Batting .318 from the 3-hole…
But to definitively say he’s better? I don’t see it. Here’s their slash lines over the last 3 seasons, without saying which belongs to whom:
Is one of those hitters definitively better than the other one? Then when you add in defense, DRS has Belt at +28 and Hosmer at -2 over that span, UZR has Belt at +22.2 and Hosmer at -7.3.
Plus from the 3-hole, Belt has a .814 OPS to Hosmer’s .755; I genuinely see no way that Hosmer is better than Belt, not even really close.
First things first, Hosmer’s OPS batting 3rd this season is 1.011 compared to Belt’s 0.807.
Totals from the last 2.5 seasons (including this year’s numbers before the ASB):
-Hosmer: 445 Hits, 55 HRs, 239 RBIs
-Belt: 365 Hits, 51 HRs, 194 RBIs
Hosmer has won 3 Gold gloves, Belt has none.
Hosmer was the All-Star MVP in 2016, Belt has one AB in the ASG.
It’s not close.
Hosmer won 3 Gold Gloves, despite no defensive metrics thinking he makes anywhere near the same amount of plays as even an average 1B, while playing in a league that Belt was not eligible for the GG. It’s silly to compare GG wins between the two. If you’ve watched both, there’s no question who the better defender is.
And why just count numbers from the 3-hole from 3 months? They clearly aren’t factoring in ONLY the past 3 months, or else Crawford would be nowhere close to a top 100 list.
And Hosmer’s power/RBI numbers, for playing in a hitters park in a league that doesn’t have a pitcher batting in the lineup, are barely ahead of Belt’s. 133 vs. 117 wRC+ the last 3 seasons.
Hosmer is nowhere near Belt.
When was KC ever a hitters Park
5th last season in runs scored, 11th in 2015, 11th in 2014, 8th in 2013, 13th in 2012, 13th in 2011, 12th in 2010…Soooo…every year of Hosmer’s career, until the 3 months of this season?
Fair enough, Belt is a better defender based on the defensive metrics. I’ll give him that much because I watch Belt more often than Hosmer and am not familiar with him on the defensive side. Honestly, based on DRS, Belt may be the best first baseman in all of baseball this year but that only tells half the story.
Offensively? Hosmer is wayy more polished than Belt. Hosmer hits for average, and drives in more runs consistently.
Belt may not hit for more power in At&t but he could certainly collect more hits with the ridiculous shifts put on him every game. The ballpark element is just an excuse for Belt’s flawed hitting mechanics. It doesn’t matter in this argument.
At this point, Belt hasn’t posted numbers offensively to even have the case to be remotely considered at the same level as Hosmer.
Fair enough, Belt is a better defender. I’ll give him that much because I watch Belt more often than Hosmer and am not familiar with him on the defensive side. Honestly, based on DRS, Belt may be the best first baseman in all of baseball this year but that only tells half the story.
Offensively? Hosmer is wayy more polished than Belt. Hosmer hits for average, and drives in more runs consistently.
Belt may not hit for more power in At&t but he could certainly collect more hits with the ridiculous shifts put on him every game. The ballpark element is just an excuse for Belt’s flawed hitting mechanics. It doesn’t matter in this argument.
At this point, Belt hasn’t posted numbers offensively to even have the case to be remotely considered at the same level as Hosmer.
See below. A comparison of their career stats (OPS/OPS+) actually shows the opposite–Belt is a better hitter than Hosmer, and it’s not a small sample size. I assume the wRC+ would be similar, as that tends to be pretty close to OPS+.
Belt’s career OBP and SLG are 20-30 points higher than Hosmer’s; Hosmer’s BA is higher, but only by 11 points. Hosmer has 18 more career HRs, but he also has more than 1000 more plate appearances.
RBIs are situational, so they’re not a great basis for comparison. “Polished” is not a very technical term, so that’s subjective.
If you like Hosmer’s style better than Belt’s, fair enough, but the facts don’t support your final sentence. Not at all, actually.
Hits for average and drives in runs more consistently? His average is 20 points higher over the past 3 seasons. That means nothing when Belt has over 30 points of OPS on him.
Over that sample you mentioned, Hosmer had 608 PA with RISP. Belt, by comparison had 483. So does Hosmer consistent at driving in runs, or does he consistently get actual opportunities for RBI?
“At this point, Belt hasn’t posted numbers offensively to even have the case to be remotely considered at the same level as Hosmer”. That right there is a laughably absurd statement. I mean, absolutely ZERO facts back that sentence up. That is a hot take that disregards nearly anything that has actually happened in either of their careers.
You can pull out any kind of numbers to back your argument, it’s not going to convince me that Belt’s better offensively or overall as a player. I’ve already pointed out my case for why Hosmer is better than Belt, I don’t need to repost the same facts.
Think of it this way: Hosmer bears most of KC’s offensive responsibilities batting 3rd and part of KC’s offensive resurgence from early on in the year (remember, they were the worst-scoring offensive in the MLB for a big part of the season) had to do with Hosmer’s revival. Guys in that clubhouse view Hosmer as their leader and follow his lead.
Same thing with Belt. He bears most of the Giants’ offensive responsibilities batting in the heart of the order and for the most part, he’s done fairly well, hitting 16HRs, on pace for his career high. But my question to you is, does Belt’s impact on the team really equal that of Hosmer’s? I think not.
I’m with Hoona on the ” pull out any set of statistics you got, cause I know the metric darling Belt will come out ahead” , but push comes to shove, who do I want taking at bats in the middle of the order in big games? I’m taking Hoz.
You can beg to differ all you want and reverberate some other metrics, but that’s my call, and it is Hoona’s call as well.
I’d go with the guy with the longest history of making less outs. But, there’s a reason why Hoz is overrated.
One guy has a lower K rate, more likely to get hits, and more RBIs. And was chosen to be the 1B for Team USA in WBC. I guess that’s where the overrated bit comes in – you thought a better all around rated 1B should have been given the honor.
Hoz slightly higher contact (80% – 76%) and less strikeouts (but worse K:BB ratio), but the main reason I’d take Belt is Hosmer’s sky high ground ball rate. Which, no doubt contributes to his 95 career GIDP (compared to 28 for Belt). More RBI in more chances, 12 points of batting average, and FAR more outs made. It seems like any advantage Hosmer has is slight, and any disadvantage is vast.
Aaaah yes, the sirens of baseball statistics. Imagine the brave Ulysses strapped to the mast while his crew run about the decks with their ears plugged with wax.
Probably best to speak in riddles when actual facts don’t back up your biases.
But you’re speaking from statistical bias. That is clear and totally understandable.
It seems like exhaustively recorded details of actual events over a 7 year period would remove most bias, but facts not being believed is the world we live in presently.
But what weight context? Should all baseball decisions be executed from a fangraphs dashboard? Should prospects be solely scouted on their stats? What of tools? What of the perception of what their performance will be, that which is not measurable today?
Context is key, and I hadn’t actually looked further into more “weighted” context. Over their careers, by Win Probability Added, Belt is at +12.08, Hosmer +10.34; RE24 has Belt +121.55, Hosmer +73.69. As for upside? Potential? I have to think Belt’s skillset will age better. Hosmer is younger, but he keeps insisting his groundball rate is just fine. But 53% is WAY to high, and he’s already a slow guy. He’s about as ideal a candidate as you can get for this whole launch angle craze. You always hear he has 35 HR potential, but that will never happen with those scuds.
And I think it’s a little unfair and undercutting to hand wave this whole “look at the game not the spreadsheet” stats talk away. We see Belt 10x? 20x? more often than Hosmer, though I do make attempts to watch any other players when I can (and far more this year with SF’s woes), so we “know” Belt far better, and the grass may always seem greener. I’ve just never seen anything from Hosmer, whether it be live, on TV, on stat sheets, wherever, that show me he’s a better overall 1B that Belt.
My “argument” was literally just posting large samples of one player being demonstrably better than another. I didn’t realize actual facts could be so unconvincing. I mean…the numbers are nowhere close to favoring Hosmer. More RBI while also having among the most RBI opportunities in MLB? That’s the most convincing case for Hosmer? Yikes.
Hosmer’s three Gold Gloves show either what a joke that award is or how thin the competition is in the AL. The eye test and the metrics both say that Belt is a substantially better defender and always has been.
As for the hitting, you can cherry-pick the stats various ways between the two of them, as you and Eric have shown. They both started their careers in 2011. Hosmer has more than 1000 more plate appearances than Belt over their careers. Belt’s career OPS/OPS+ are .819/127. Hosmer’s are .772/109.
So I guess it just depends how you want to look at it, but if you actually look at career accomplishments, Belt certainly matches up with Hosmer just fine and arguably then some.
All Star Break Tradition here: MyGuy™ midseason standings.
22’sSweetSwing and I will try our best to fill the void this week but 50+ players need to be ranked.
Meanwhile, here is how the TWG’ers who have participated both years have done in the past :
MyGuy Average Finish:
TF62 … 5.5
Lefty … 7
PS35 … 7.5
App7 … 8.0
Foots … 10.5
Sweet … 12 / Bapah 12
Skweez … 12.5 [Won it in 2015; 24th place last year … unpredictable aspects to Baseball]
Clutch … 13
Matthew … 14
610nm … 14.5
dgg … 15 / doughnut 15
Moooooooose … 15.5
HaakAway … 16 / Panda 16 [I get no favoritism in the Hard School of stats]
CC … 20.5 [He has taken some very non-conventional approaches]
This is absolutely no reflection on who is baseball-smart here; so much is out of our control here. VegasGiantsFan inspired this so that we would at least pay attention to the Farm System better [a lesson for the SFG FO maybe?]
Look out Bapah, I’m only 2.5 points behind you!
I’m not sure how to interpret these scores. I might have to start taking this more seriously.
You are at least trending up. This means you finished 6th last year but 18th the year before.
Understandable. Bobby and I are not on good terms anymore.
The more we disagree, the better I do.
Speaking of VGF, I sure would like to know what happened to him and why he disappeared from the fold. He had interesting things to say.
Agreed but several have reached out with what we have. Remember his father died and maybe that snowballed into too much to do in Real Life? He can find us when he is ready.
Lefty, Clutch, Haak, Bapah, 610nm, CC, TF62, Foothills, and Matthew are definitely prominent on my list. I envy those in that list who know the Farm System well. I only follow the Giants and am almost a complete ignoramus on the Farms. Those are diehard fans and I consider myself a more casual fan albeit with a keen interest in looking stuff up when I don’t know.
I like the personal stories behind the prospects too. But that can hurt you in scoring points here. Duggar’s style [think Brett Butler] and steady climb got me and he is getting a big Zero so far due to injury. Martin Agosta is a Sacramento kid I picked but he had TJ and has not come back as planned yet [anothe Zero] and then Joan Gregorio I stuck with for the third year and he disqualified himself with a PED. [my third Zero]. Feeling like the Giants of 2017.
See … you’re one of those guys that knows these minor league names well. I pretty much know the names of the guys in the Giants dugout pregame. As for the Farm players, I look up their MiLB data when a post calls for that. Otherwise I know diddly.
Launch angle data
Very good article. It’s complicated.
Not very complicated at all, if you are strong you want a higher launch angle , if you are weak you want a lower launch angle .
DJL makes sense because if the larger outfield space in Colorado…I’m kinda with PJ: since time immemorial, little fast guys should hit more grounders, big hulks should hit more fly balls
Here is a good example:
Shaw AA/99 [His Level/wRC+ at the end of 2016] and AAA/123+25% [Current] … so he has Improved by 55 points over his 99 last year or about 56% Improvement. That gets compared to all our other picks and he gets ranked by that. If you picked him, you get his ranking as part of your 10 players.
Slater AAA/137 and MLB/109+40% … He contrasts how a player that has done well [109 wRC+ at the MLB level] will not get as high a score simply because he also finished very well last year . He has kept up a good pace but not jumped forward as Shaw has done.
Yay. I love technicalities.
It is a limit to my thinking that I am measuring “Improvement” only and not “Achievement” in the broader sense. Maybe there is a better blend that can fulfill both? Notice I do give a higher Bonus for making the MLB level (40% vs. 25%).
The HaakAway Meal Money Bomus
Looking at the umpires who will work the ASG and each one’s replay review affirmation percentage:
League Rank, Replay Review Affirmation Percentage (RAP):
HP: Joe West: 11th (.750), 9/12.
1B: Angel Hernandez: 60th (.400), 4/10.
2B: Mark Carlson: 34th (.583), 7/12.
3B:Chris Conroy: 65th (.333), 4/12.
LF: Manny Gonzalez: 73rd (.300), 3/10.
RF: Mike Estabrook: 35th (.571), 4/7.
Replay: Doug Eddings: 35th (.571), 8/14.
Angel high fiving himself for not finishing last
Statistically, this group is exactly dead level with MLB average when it comes to replay affirmation. This group has 39 affirmations out of 77 reviews (.506) while all of MLB umpires are 378 out of 745 (.507).
His lawyer has a great argument there: “Your Honor, my client is not the worst umpire on the field.”
Wonder if Angel was on the list prior to the lawsuit.
The Giants ODD year of 2017 is sucking more than most other odd years. The Fish just swept us and the AS game break is here. The good news is that Greek Giant is hosting all of us for 4 days at Mount Athos Greece.
He will provide a Host Bar and all the young Nubian slaves available. We just have to provide our own transportation to and from. No Kids and No Pets. Surf Maui will be the only certified Lawyer on the Island thus keep your grievances to a minimum. Skinny dipping is allowed but only after nightfall.
Talk about ‘Party like its 1902’….
There will even be movies provided. The first one will be the Life of Amelia Earhart with late footage provided that she did not die in her crash.
Depending on who shows, I’m petitioning Surf on the Nightfall clause
Posey batting 4th in the ALL Star Game, Maddon should be fired .
If Posey had those type of hitters hitting in front of him on the Giants, he’d have plenty of RBIs.
5 for his last 31, average down .32 points in the last 3 weeks, and besides a 10 game tear in May has shown little power .
He is hitting .234 with RISP and .167 with 2 outs with RISP, if they a pitching around him he should have more than 33 walks
have you ever played the sport? You do realize it matters who a hitter hits around, those stats you love to spew out don’t tell the whole story.
PJ has his narrative, and zero facts that are brought up are regarded, because “he knows the game”. After all, he’s just here to blow off some steam.
Maybe, maybe not. I find .234 with RISP and .167 with 2 outs with RISP to be more than “narrative”.
Do you think he’s going up there and doing something completely different with men on base vs. bases empty?
Whatever his plate approach, baseball-reference.com does not measure good intentions. He’s hitting 90 points less with RISP. That’s what we call a GLARING statistic.
nothing can be a glaring statistic when we’re comparing what, 100 PA? If that? When he’s had 1800+ at bats in the SAME situations with wildly successful results. You think he’s suddenly forgotten how to hit with RISP? That he said “I’ve been doing great with RISP for the past 7 years….but this year I’m going to try something different.” The results aren’t there this year. But the idea that he’s suddenly become bad at hitting with RISP is hilarious.
We must, again, agree to disagree. I love Buster. He’s a great catcher and in his MLB past has been a great clutch hitter. All ballplayers have bad years and by the lofty standards Buster has set heretofore he’s not having a good year. On the other hand this site has ripped Belt and Craw for their “off” years but they’re making their hits count!!
This is clearly not a bad hitting year though. It’s not like he’s doing badly in every offense part of the game. It’s incredibly fluky what is happening. It’s frustrating, but I just can’t see him doing anything other than getting poor results from the same successful process.
Actually he has hit with good luck, had a bloop double the other day, and another Double vs the Nats where the Outfield let it fall in, his last HR @ the Braves was a 1% HR, and his last HR at home at Home was a wall scraper with the wind blowing out at 45 MPH .
Since you’re tracking luck were you also tracking the outs of his that could have also been hits?
I never think grounders that do not become hits are in lucky, like Kuiper does, Grounders are bad in my eyes .
I don’t think anyone but Kuiper likes grounders.
It’s certainly possible that he could be pressing in those situations more than normal, given how the team has been doing and his role as its best player. While this season’s numbers don’t definitively prove that he’s forgotten how to hit with RISP, his career numbers also don’t conclusively prove that this season’s numbers are meaningless.
TO to the rescue! I think this opinion may be rightest of them all. On a lousy team that’s 13th in the NL in hitting there probably is more pressure on Posey. Also, TO points out that great players can, and do, have bad years which don’t make the bad years “meaningless”.
I just try to help.
Hamhanded Helper! ( funny, no?)
I haven’t disregarded his RISP numbers this season, but do think they’d mean more if his “regular” numbers were also poor. As stands it seems like a lot of unhelpful noise. Has Posey given any reasons? Not that he’d do more than a typical MLB interview, but I’d to hear his thoughts if he’s given them.
I think Buster is too modest to try to give excuses for anything. In fact, I’d bet he blames himself for Kontos’ WP.
Yeah that’s why I said “typical” MLB interview, i.e. ‘safe”. Say the right things, no actual insight.
That gets back to who is batting behind Buster? Do they fear the guy behind Buster will get a hit? Do they give Buster something to hit? Probably not with the people who have hit behind him.
A clear fact Buster has walked 17 times or 20% of the time (4 intentional) with runners in RISP. He has 16 walks in over 200 PA. To me that screems they are pitching around him and he is pressing trying to be an RBI guy.
He could be more like Belt and take the walks.
Be quiet, you are a joke, read more charts .
Don’t tell me to be quiet son. Few are more of a joke here than you and your pathetic eye test knowledge.
I am 52 , and not your son , and know way more about Baseball than you !
I’m still waiting for you to show you know much of anything. Haven’t seen much proof of it yet. You’ve earned no respect, regardless of your age or what you think you know.
Your CC’s son maybe, and I do not think he knows shit either !
Your opinion means nothing. You’re close-minded, boorish, uninteresting, and always turn out to be a substantial waste of time and energy.
Good block me, see ya, would not want to be ya .
A 52 year old using late 80s playground jump rope slang? Blocking you won’t stop the horrifying fact that you procreated. Keep blowing off that steam though.
You seem like a reasonable, rational chap, Eric. I’ve often found Peter abrasive but I wouldn’t block him because he’s also imparted many accurate, fact-based comments to this blog. You don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I’ve only blocked one person here. At minimum, PJ at least enjoys the same team I do. The one person I blocked does not, and is pointlessly annoying about it.
I bet I know who you’re talking about. That’s the only one I’ve blocked, too.
He’s somehow still around, though always amusingly less when his legacy is getting embarrassed while historically underperforming 😉
2 Hole, 1 Block
Fans of other teams don’t bother me in the least. Fans of other teams who only want to have a one way conversation? Nothing at all of value there.
Peter can be abrasive but his eyewitness reports of four of Buster’s lucky XBH this year seems like an accurate account. Sometimes Peter has accuracy to go along with his bile.
It’s a 1/4 of the equation. It doesn’t mention that ALL players benefit from “lucky hits”, and doesn’t do the other half of listing the instances where a ball “should have” been a hit. It’s a tiny observation with no diligence paid to other factors.
No, he either should walk more , and with his chances with men on base hit better .
According to baseball reference, Posey has had 5 plate appearances with runners on second and 3rd and an open bag. He was walked 3 of the 5 times. All 3 of those walks were with 2 outs. With 1 out he is 1 for 1 with 1RBI.
He has 17 walks in 85 PA with RISP. That is a 20% walk rate.
He has 16 walks in 233 PA with no RISP. That is a 6.8% walk rate.
Busters K rate is similar at 1 every 6.23PA with RISP vs 1 in every 7.06 with no RISP
To me, it sounds like they are pitching around Buster and he is making week contact tryng to be an RBI guy knowing he has no protection behind him. Maybe you can pull out a stat on pitch location and contact rates for RISP?
They don’t tell the WHOLE story but, in general, they’re accurate. If they weren’t baseball-reference.com would have been abandoned as useless long ago.
Don’t dare question Efrain. He’s a Little League veteran.
Pick your battles
Even Baggarly tweeted Posey is miss cast as a cleanup hitter on his own t team , but batting cleanup in the All Star game .
Weird, it’s as if he commands respect from others in the game that you’re unable to fathom!
I watch him play and I see a Soft hitter, and I root for him, and wish he was doing better, I expect more from him than you .
Tough love, huh?
Yes, you do not believe in it, I do, as a parent I do not do it, because my kids have special needs, but I am hard on myself if I fail at my job, are fail as a person .
There are certainly times in life for tough love… I’m thinking Buster doesn’t need it
I expect tons from him. He’s a great player. I also understand how the game can take away from a player in ways beyond his control. You believe every player gets exactly what he has earned, no more no less.
It is a pretty strange lineup. Arenado, with 17 HRs and a league leading 70 RBIs hitting 6th, Zimmerman, the league’s second leading hitter, with 19 HRs and 63 RBIs hitting 7th, and Ozuna, with 23 HRs and tied for the league lead in RBIs hitting 8th. I don’t think most would bat Posey cleanup in that group.
I think Maddon does “crazy” to be quirky cool sometimes
Posey feels most suited to batting 2nd. This – seriously – may have been as simple as Maddon doing a random draw of names, to not play favorites. It makes as much sense as anything else, wouldn’t make much of a difference, and would be some random fun for the players.
Getting upset over the batting order of an exhibition game is a teeny, tiny bit over the top
I am not upset over it, just find it crazy .
Maddon should be fired because his team of thoroughbreds is two games under .500 and 5.5 games behind the Milwaukee Freaking Brewers. (Go Brew Crew!)
Maybe this guy is the NL MVP – Brewers got him for a power reliever that got injured pretty much right away. No space for him in Boston, Sandoval. Anyway, an MVP move by GM Stearns.
Lemme guess, Ryan Zimmerman will bat leadoff.
You Funny Pete. (exhibition game)
Remember when I generated a faux stat called “RBI efficiency” last night, and TO said that it was meaningless because it doesn’t account for the amount of baserunners and then I said, well, MLB.com doesn’t have that….?
Well, if you really wanted to get super diligent about things, you could do an accounting of how many times each player has come to the plate with each of the baserunner and outs circumstances.
For instance, Brandon Crawford has come to the plate 19 times with a runner on third and less than 2 out. He has 8 sac. flies and is batting .333.
Belt has encountered that situation 16 times and has 1 SF and is batting .538.
The RBI tally for each? 15 for Craw, 16 for Belt.
ooops – Baseball Reference splits give you this opportunity. I’m sure fangraphs and other sites too.
More research than I’m game for. This is really interesting Ryan. Thanks for the drill down.
Thanks for looking. It’s pretty stunning the RBI numbers are this close, and I didn’t actually realize Belt was doing that GOOD in those situations. Their “runs scored” totals though are certainly telling. I don’t know why Crawford is falling off a cliff numbers wise, but it seems odd to have two guys with matching RBI totals, but one has twice as many runs scored. Seems like an anomaly. I can see HOW it’s happening, but it feels abnormal.
I’m not surprised at all to see that the Giants’ outfield is the worst in the majors, but it’s pretty jaw-dropping how MUCH worse. The Giants’ outfield is -34 DRS. The next worse? -22. Yowza.
Denard Span -15 (OUCH)
Gorkys Hernandez -9
Hunter Pence -4
Eduardo Nunez -4
Justin Ruggiano -4 (and he could be back, the way things are going injury-wise–he’s in Sac now)
Hill, Morse, and Williamson are all -1
Belt, Jones, Stubbs, and Marrero are all at 0
The “best” are Slater and Parker at +2 each
My god that’s ugly. That Span number still seems weird to me. I don’t know that he looks even average out there…but THAT bad?
He’s really, really bad. We know his arm is terrible, but what really strikes me is how many times anything hit in front of him falls in. It seems like he’s either always playing too far back or he never gets a good read. Ever.
What’s Yelich’s number? He was playing as deep as any CF’er I’ve seen in recent memory.
just a little bit neg. in CF, like -3. So let’s call him neutral.
Marlins started the season with Ozuna in CF and Yelich in LF. I guess they figured that Yelich covers more ground and that’s more important than his weak arm. His CF play this weekend confirms his best position is LF.
Yeah, I wasn’t too impressed with his D. But he’s a pure hitter for sure. Thought Kuip nailed it with the Von Joshua comparison.
Not to make anyone feel worse but did you see what Luis Castillo did to Arizona on Saturday?
I think he was pumping gas, shutting down the Snakes and may have picked up the W.
Yes. 6.2 of shut out innings. Not sure about the particulars (SO, BB, etc.).
Also, any ball hit over his head he seems to have NONE chance to sprint to location and catch it on the run. Further to your point I don’t think he has ever charged in and dove for a ball before it hits the ground. We’ve seen some stellar CF D from other teams this year, which makes Span stand out even more. Brutal.
Damn I miss Gregor Blanco.
I think that gray beard has finally caught up with him.
I agree that the outfield is awful, but I think DRS is a pretty questionable “stat.’ So far this season, Matt Moore +3, which is one more than Brandon Crawford. Joe Panik is -5.
Yeah, the Panik one doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because the eye test says he’s fabulous out there. Advanced metrics didn’t like Crawford for years; it’s only the last couple of years that the metrics have matched what we’ve always seen.
That said, and I say this knowing I’ll raise some ire, I think Crawford hasn’t looked quite as stellar out there this year, like maybe he’s a half-step slow. I still wonder how much that injury he had in late April that put him on the DL is affecting him.
Paul suggested a couple of days ago that Crawford might have put on a few pounds, and maybe that has affected his performance. Given that he’s a solidly built guy, I think it may be a possibility that he might need to put more effort into controlling his weight that some others, especially as he gets older.
So not you nor anyone else here buys my belief that Crawford is negatively impacted by that contract, that he’s lost his edge?
I buy it
Great, hopefully we can agree on a price that is mutually beneficial.
As we all learn, every decade of age brings a new challenge to maintaining fitness. You literally have to step on the gas to stay in the same place, and I can’t imagine how much harder it is for world-class athletes, working under a microscope and such intense pressure.
But sometimes, tinkering around on the margins can also make a difference. If Craws did some intensive yoga 3X a week he’d lose a couple kilos, and dramatically enhance his strength and quickness. And it’s perfect for weight control.
Just my two pesos – maybe he already does yoga…
your cynicism has the uncanny ability to shed light.
No way does Panik pass the eye test with that one. Although seemed he missed one or two this past weekend.
But what on earth can they do to improve this next year???
Pence and Span will still be in play. Can move Span to the corner. Slater can cover both corners and some CF, but his DRS probably not likely to be much above 0 if at all. But I guess neutral is a vast improvement. Who will save the bacon in CF? It’s awfully hard to count on Duggar saving the day from this vantage point.
they’re stuck in an outfield rut and it may take a couple to a few to get out of it
Span in a corner spot with his waffle wing is even worse. Either eat the money or look to 2019
No, it’s actually a better situation in LF, in theory. With the money he’s owed and him hitting the ball well, they won’t be cutting bait until he can’t hit. So enjoy the Span show in 2018!
this parallels what happened to Pagan – his metrics were terrible in CF. And Blanco had a bad year (the reasons they had to get Span). So they moved Pagan to LF
My opinion is Pagan is a better outfielder than Span, especially his arm. I’m sure you can find some Spangraph’s stats that dispute that…but Denard is nottttttt good out there anywhere
I won’t, but thanks anyway
Ryder Jones can play the OF as well. Bryan Reynolds might be up in 2019
yes because a team that has not produced a full time OF in 30 years is all of the sudden going to produce a few in a row right?
Where does that logic come from?
Stop bitching about how long ST is, and use the time to develop skills you lack.
Also, weirdly proud of Belt putting up a zero in his limited time lol. I think he could have been a capable OF if he had ever been given actual time out there. But at 29+ I’d much rather see him continue playing that awesome 1st D.
yet you keep clamoring for Mac, as if he would set the field on fire and make much of a difference.
When Slater ran the ball out HARD and did the more painful version dance of the ‘oh, it’s my hammy’, or ‘Oh – it’s my groin’, one had to have known then that it was almost career threatening. That adductor muscle tear is a deal breaker. I have not winced that much while watching since watching the Cody Ross’s moment or when Jason Kendall sustained a broken right ankle as he tried to beat out a bunt when he was with PITT.
Let’s hope your “almost” turns into “not”. In a season where viewing the kids has taken on paramount importance I view this bad break as the worst of them all.
Reading ClutchUp’s post I flashed on Bo Jackson, and that was career ending. Slater is younger, medical technology is more advanced…here’s hoping that Slater makes a full recovery and is ready for spring training 2018. This is not a small issue, for certain.
LOL – “happy birthday Will Smith”
that’s how it all began. The contagion was unleashed from his festering ligament.
I wonder if he’s gettin’ jiggy with it 😉
On this day 2 years ago, we beat the Phillies 15-2 and it was one of the funnest games I’ve been to. It was Pence on the Fence night and some guy jumped into the Cove with all his clothes on to get a ball and needed help getting back out. Also Pence hit a GS. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f696c76cf63ba56a277b7f7638e8361240b0973089a00b3a6fde74214cbd9608.jpg
Don’t forget on this date in 2009 Jonathan Sanchez was a Juan Uribe error away from a Perfect Game.
Loved that guy!
Aaron Judge talking about how cool it was to meet/interact with Buster and how he admires Buster’s professionalism on FS1. Judge isn’t just a Giants fan, seems like a huuge Giants fan
That’s great that he’s a huuge Giants fan. So where’s the Giants scout that missed this big gem in literally, their own back yard?
Lively blog! I knew it!!!
Well I was hanging on by a thread aka wafer before but now my Jesuit upbringing and loyal parishioner service may have hit the wall.
LOL. I’d probably attend mass more often if those things tasted better. Catholics should have a selection of blessed items to choose from. Some swiss wrapped in salami would be thanks be to god.
At least a nice Prosciutto platter once in a while Jeesh, those parish priests eat high off the hog and our wafers don’t even have a spread on them.
The should leave a can of cheese whiz near by to kill the taste and maybe some white wine every once in awhile, that bland red gets old.
Reminds me of when my saintly mother ecstatically described attending the Mass said by John Paul II at Candlestick Park, to which I blasphemely snorted: “What, did they have vendors passing out Communion? ‘HEY,
BODY OF CHRIST, HERE! GETSH’YER BODY OF CHRIST HEAH!'”
NOW……I just had to explain to the rest of the people why I was laughing way out loud.
I can see the Vatican asking the Mayor of SF if we can use some of your vendors and up pops the Kettle Korn vendor who migrated over from the STICK. “Hey Get Your Papal Hot Dogs on a Stick, No Buns Allowed”
Way too many head shots for Mr. Danley (I think he once played ball with Tony Gwynn in college)
So Bochy said Mac was going to get a lot of time in the OF, but now he’s optioned back to AAA? Is it because Nuñez is feeling healthy earlier than expected?
Well, he didn’t say WHERE he was getting all that time, now did he?!?!?!
SIgh. Can’t even have eye candy to look at at least while the Giants are sucking hairy donkey balls.
Harry DB Pence would like a word…
That’s gross, peachy! ;o)
Giants optioned Mac Williamson back to AAA. No corresponding move. Nuñez due back on Friday. That according to Pavlovic.
Schulman says that the Giants do expect Nunez back on Friday, but given his injury issues, they want him at 3B, not in the OF. So the LF is Gorkys Hernandez. With no backup outfielders, unless you count Belt and Kelby Tomlinson.
I get that Mac wasn’t setting the world on fire. But he IS an outfielder, he’s healthy, and he’s one of the two guys they said they were going with in 2017.
Sacramento is off this week for their break, too, so they’re not even optioning him today to get playing time this week, which might make some sense. They’re just saying “Go away. Now.”
I guess they’ve got their reasons, but I don’t think anyone can doubt that he is intensely disliked by Bochy and perhaps the front office, too.